[00:00] <greg-g> oh, there were two 191115s on that page.
[00:00] <bdmurray> well, 225064 shows up in new and incomplete
[00:00] <greg-g> i closed the first one my find command found, but there is another one in 'incomplete'
[00:00]  * greg-g nods
[00:02] <bdmurray> yeah and 214101 shows up in New and Confirmed
[00:06] <nellery> hm...
[00:08] <nellery> I'll go through the incomplete and confirmed to make sure there are no others
[00:08]  * greg-g is saving the page right now... just fyi
[00:09] <bdmurray> What's the name of the locations in the clock applet?
[00:09] <greg-g> not sure I follow the question.
[00:10] <bdmurray> The pkg name for the world clock in the panel.
[00:11] <greg-g> oh
[00:11] <greg-g> "gworldclock - Displays time and date in specified time zones"
[00:11] <greg-g> that ^ ?
[00:12] <greg-g> no, not that. it isn't installed on my machine. ignore.
[00:12] <bdmurray> good, I was about to feel silly for a minute ;)
[00:12] <greg-g> heh
[00:14] <nellery> hm, using 'xprop | grep WM_CLASS' on the preferences window returns gnome-panel
[00:14] <greg-g> yeah, I was just going to suggest that it is a part of gnome-panel
[00:14] <nellery> and, I've just accidently removed it from the panel :)
[00:14] <greg-g> heh, nice
[00:26] <calc> what is the way people record video of bugs? is it via recordmydesktop ?
[00:26] <bdmurray> I use istanbul
[00:26] <calc> ok
[00:28] <greg-g> istanbul++
[01:13] <greg-g> has anyone asked about bug 240770 yet?  Specifically if we can close it and tell them to move the idea over to braintorm since it isn't a bug?
[01:14] <bdmurray> I think that makes sense since it is more than a simple feature request
[01:14]  * greg-g nods
[01:14] <greg-g> I will do that, tactfully :)
[01:15] <bdmurray> tactfully would be nice, I've just run across a new triager lacking that
[01:16] <greg-g> bdmurray: :(
[01:16] <bdmurray> We need an intervention process or something
[01:17] <greg-g> have you tried contact them directly?  Or just commenting on the bugs they are working on?
[01:17]  * greg-g isn't sure which method would be best
[01:18] <bdmurray> I've commented on a couple, I'll monitor the situation I guess
[01:19] <bdmurray> I've found direct e-mail to be a mixed bag
[01:20] <bdmurray> but that is just ancedotal
[01:20] <greg-g> yeah, I could imagine
[02:07] <greg-g> I'm just lazy, ignore: bug 220239
[02:07] <charlie-tca> Should wishlist bug reports be marked confirmed? I'm trying to work the apt bugs for today.
[02:08] <greg-g> charlie-tca: if you confirm that the feature is not already available.  The question of whether it is a desired change is touchy sometimes, so a developer comment would be helpful for that.
[02:09] <greg-g> it is touchy especially with someting like apt, which is a central part of the system, so any changes have to be really important/needed
[02:09] <charlie-tca> So, we leave them incomplete until a developer confirms
[02:09] <greg-g> bdmurray: ^ ?
[02:10]  * greg-g defers
[02:10]  * greg-g could probably see a valid reason for either confirmed or not.
[02:11] <greg-g> charlie-tca: marking it confirmed won't hurt anything.
[02:11] <charlie-tca> Thanks.
[02:17] <bdmurray> confirming doesn't mean it is going to be worked on just that it just really is missing
[02:18] <charlie-tca> That makes sense to me, Thanks
[02:21]  * greg-g nods
[02:41] <greg-g> alright, 15 bugs and I'm done for today
[02:41] <Hobbsee> nice work!
[02:41] <Hobbsee> 20 tomorrow :)
[02:41] <greg-g> :) we'll see
[02:41] <greg-g> where are the encouraging graphs today?
[02:45] <greg-g> http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/apt/
[02:46] <bdmurray> you could add them in ;)
[02:47] <greg-g> just did :)
[02:47] <bdmurray> sweet!
[02:49] <greg-g> good work all
[02:49] <bdmurray> This graph needs some help
[02:49] <bdmurray> http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/nopackage.html
[02:49] <greg-g> that it does
[02:49] <greg-g> BugDay in a couple weeks?
[02:50]  * greg-g has to run
[02:50] <greg-g> have a good night/day all
[02:50]  * greg-g runs
[04:14] <IamReck> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/251690
[04:14] <IamReck> Can anyone replicate this bug?
[04:18] <charlie-tca> I can't right now, but it seems like I have seen this happen before in gutsy
[06:48] <mcas> hi
[06:48] <mcas> can someone help me out with LP 251633
[06:48] <mcas> i think this bug is invalid do you think the same?
[06:49] <RAOF> mcas: Certainly invalid for Ubuntu, but you probably want to see if you can forward that on to the _actual_ gnucash bugtracker.
[06:50] <mcas> RAOF: ok thank you
[07:00] <mcas> RAOF: which status gets the bug after reporting this bug upstream
[07:04] <greg-g> mcas: invalid, as it is not an Ubuntu bug, they are using OSX
[07:04] <mcas> ok than i will mark it invalid and add the link to the new bug report
[07:05] <greg-g> yes, tell them that they should follow the bug at that upstream tracker.
[07:05] <mcas> ok
[07:05] <mcas> thanks greg-g
[07:05] <greg-g> no problem mcas
[10:08] <LimCore> as
[10:08] <LimCore> asac: lol... what did you ment that firefox not starting up AT ALL is not a bug =)
[10:09] <LimCore> this bug also shows how ubuntu is NOT for human beings
[10:09] <LimCore> normal user: "I started firefox and *nothing happened*"
[10:10] <LimCore> powere user: "yeah, run console and there run firefox to read error messages"
[10:20] <asac> LimCore: where?
[10:22] <LimCore> asac:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/248493
[10:23] <asac> LimCore: its not a bug. the user runs proposed so he has to wait till the firefox package was built/rolled
[10:23] <LimCore> well, I hit this bug on 8.04 i386
[10:24] <LimCore> s/my/my user
[10:24] <asac> LimCore: now fixed?
[10:24] <LimCore> dpkg reconfigure -a   made it work
[10:25] <asac> ok
[10:25] <asac> thats something different then
[10:25] <asac> most likely you forced to just upgrade firefox
[10:25] <LimCore> I wonder if upgrade was broken
[10:25] <asac> yes most likely
[10:25] <LimCore> I wonder if upgrade was interrupted;  but I think that rather not
[10:25] <asac> you had a new firefox, but not a new xulrunner
[10:25] <asac> err
[10:25] <asac> the other way around
[10:26] <LimCore> hmm and btw, this problem should be fixed with invisible bugs
[10:26] <LimCore> normal users dont run apps from term
[10:26] <asac> in anyway. this was the last update where this can happen
[10:26] <asac> LimCore: if you dont run dist-upgrade you wont see it
[10:26] <LimCore> "omg omg *nothing happened*, just the program icon was bouncing then dissapeared" its how users see it =)
[10:26] <asac> as you wont upgrade until xulrunner is available
[10:26] <LimCore> ok
[10:27] <asac> so normal users that just use update-manager shouldnt end up in that situation i hope
[10:27] <LimCore> as a separete issue.. programs (apps) should show their errors in GUI (catch output?) if not run from console but from alt+f2
[10:28] <LimCore> btw another issue. one of the things that really make ubuntu annoying is lack of basic tools in default install. mc, sux, kdesudo
[10:29] <asac> yeah. mc is certainly a tool that normal users need ;)
[10:29] <afflux> err, well.
[10:30] <afflux> I use mc for looking into .deb packages. What kind of normal user would use mc?
[10:30] <asac> what i said was ironic :)
[10:30] <LimCore> we cant afford like 10 kb to give BASIC tool any admin or any power user would use to fix system.  With CD and boradband prices going wild
[10:30] <afflux> asac: yup, noticed it right after I sent my message :)
[10:30] <LimCore> srsly, add this to default ubuntu, and live cd
[10:30] <asac> LimCore: i doubt that all admin users need mc
[10:31] <asac> i guess its even just a tiny proportion that use it
[10:31] <asac> real admins dont need that ;)
[10:31] <LimCore> asac: yeah just use dir and ls
[10:31] <afflux> LimCore: write to the MLs, we don't decide that kind of things here (but be aware that this kind of stuff has been discussed a lot of times before)
[10:31] <asac> they go for posh only ;)
[10:31] <LimCore> or better yet, WRITE ls and cd  using hexedit, then run it
[10:31] <asac> LimCore: why not
[10:31] <asac> emacs
[10:31] <asac> vim
[10:32] <asac> but well. i can only say that i doubt that those will get on CD
[10:32] <LimCore> you seriously would trace image of some silly bird instead providing essential tools?
[10:32] <LimCore> *trade
[10:32] <LimCore> or some stupid movie in examples/
[10:32] <asac> LimCore: if you find files that in your opinion are not suitable for CD let us know
[10:33] <LimCore> well, I think this decision is really without any sense
[10:33] <asac> we are always fighting with space problem
[10:33] <afflux> LimCore: but not here please.
[10:33] <asac> and every K removal helps
[10:33] <LimCore> asac: less media, duh
[10:33] <asac> i doubt that we have much media left on CD ... except example files
[10:33] <LimCore> also, throw in 7zip and process less used files with it
[10:34] <afflux> LimCore: well, that has been discussed earlier, I think there is even a blueprint for it
[10:34] <LimCore> well, remove half the icons
[10:34] <asac> so apps end up having a great no-icon placeholder?
[10:34] <asac> anyway. go for mailing list
[10:34] <LimCore> what would piss a typical power user?  a) lack of mc and other tools   b) lack of a nice icon
[10:35] <asac> LimCore: apt-get install mc will take a second
[10:35] <LimCore> or a day
[10:35] <LimCore> if you have to buy ISP services first
[10:36] <asac> might be. but without internet there is not much need for an admin either ;)
[10:36] <afflux> LimCore: why don't you create a custom flavour? MCbuntu?
[10:36] <LimCore> afflux: no comfortable way to do it with limited time
[10:37] <afflux> ah well... You're right, this discussion is absolutly senseless here ;)
[10:37] <asac> LimCore: ask xubuntu ;) ... they probably have plenty of space left on their CD
[10:37] <asac> and can add that to their seed
[10:39] <LimCore> wow
[10:39] <LimCore> another bug!
[10:39] <LimCore> trying to do _1_ task, during 30 minutes hit 3 bugs... awesome
[10:40] <LimCore> can't run krusader as root  (neither krusader then root mode command,  nor  sudo sux, then krusader)  -  krusader: ERROR: : couldn't create slave : Can not communicate with klauncher
[10:40] <afflux> well, yes. awesome. Can you please stop ranting here and just file bugs? This is a triaging channel, not support.
[10:41] <LimCore> ok
[11:05]  * Hobbsee wonders what mc is, and why it's useful
[11:06] <LimCore> Hobbsee: what do you use to administrate files in console mode? :)
[11:06] <Hobbsee> the usual linux commands?
[11:13] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: mc is a replacemt for nautilus
[11:13] <gnomefreak> eh maybe replacement is bad word
[11:13] <gnomefreak> its a file manager
[11:13] <gnomefreak> light weight one too
[11:14]  * Hobbsee is fairly sure mv, ls, cat, etc, work fine too.  and there is nautilus.
[11:15] <Hobbsee> presumably the server guys may be interested, but it's already duplicated on a desktop.
[11:16] <gnomefreak> i enjoyed using it but it was broken in edgy and i never went back to it since i never heard of it being fixed
[11:30] <heno> mc works fine in Hardy - incidentally it's a classic app - Midnight Commander, a clone of Norton Commander
[14:21] <bddebian> Boo
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> i'm looking at a couple of bug reports where the reporters are having dependency problems because they have installed packages that were uploaded to hardy-proposed, that now seem to have been removed (they have packages that are newer than those in the repository). i'm not sure whether this is a valid bug or where i can find out why the packages were removed from hardy-proposed
[15:12] <chrisccoulson> the package in question is python2.5. it's currently at 2.5.2-2ubuntu4 in the main repository. 2.5.2-2ubuntu5 was uploaded to hardy-proposed some time ago, but is no longer there
[15:12] <james_w> they will be removed if they cause regressions, or don't fix the bug they are supposed to
[15:12] <chrisccoulson> shall i get them to downgrade their versions of python2.5 and then close the reports?
[15:13] <james_w> do you have an example? I'd like to take a look.
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.5/+bug/251748
[15:14] <james_w> bug 227686 was tracking the version in -proposed if you are interested
[15:15] <chrisccoulson> thanks for that james_w
[15:15] <chrisccoulson> so basically, the reporters need to downgrade their versions of python in order to install the header files
[15:16] <james_w> chrisccoulson: yeah, I don't think it's a bug really, so Invalid is probably correct, but helping them to fix it would obviously be nive
[15:16] <james_w> yeah, I'm not sure what the easiest way to do that is.
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> i'll have a go and tell you. i'm running the version that was pulled from hardy-proposed anyway, so i need to downgrade too really
[15:17] <james_w> "sudo aptitude install python2.5-dev python2.5=2.5.2-2ubuntu4" may do it
[15:19] <james_w> great, thansk
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> that works a treat!
[16:30] <bdmurray> 1134
[17:19] <bdmurray> mvo: ping
[17:19] <mvo> bdmurray: pong
[17:20] <bdmurray> Somebody was looking at cleaning up bugs with Edgy tasks and I was looking at bug 64615 which you had worked on a bit.  Do you think the courier-authlib task is still valid?
[17:20]  * mvo looks
[17:31] <mvo> bdmurray: I think the courierlogger failure was never fixed in edgy, I can not say if that might be a problem in hardy or later or if that was just a problem with courrierlogger moving around between packages
[17:31] <bdmurray> mvo: okay, thanks
[18:16] <danage> why does sound playback suck so bad
[18:16] <lukehasnoname> that's not the right question to ask
[18:19] <danage> i know
[18:19] <danage> but sometimes it just spurts out
[18:19]  * danage is killing pulseaudio once again
[18:44] <bdmurray> mvo: there isn't much we can do with bug 216785 is there?
[18:46] <mvo> bdmurray: hm, he claims the problem went away eventually?
[18:46] <bdmurray> well, he worked around it via proxy server somehow
[18:46] <bdmurray> but no logs or anything
[18:51] <mvo> bdmurray: yeah, its a bit strnage, when tcpdump shows that nothing comes back at all
[21:30] <calc> 66.67% OOo bugs triaged, exactly 2/3 of them, heh :)
[21:30] <greg-g> calc is on a rampage
[21:31] <bdmurray> time for another package!
[21:31] <bdmurray> :)
[21:31] <calc> around 21.6% of the bugs are incomplete
[21:32] <calc> so i would be at 88.22 if those became triaged :)
[21:32] <calc> bdmurray: yea i need to move the bugs that are on incorrect old OOo packages onto the main one
[21:33] <calc> there are apparently 43 of those, yuck
[21:33] <bdmurray> I'm sure there are some openoffice.org ones hide in the nopackage bugs too
[21:33] <calc> yea
[21:33] <calc> how do i pull up a list of nopackage bugs?
[21:35] <greg-g> http://ur1.ca/0n6
[21:35] <greg-g> new and no package assigned
[21:35] <calc> omg 3139
[21:35] <calc> thats a lot
[21:35] <bdmurray> Hey, that's down a bit!  I've been working on it some
[21:36] <calc> we should disallow filing bugs like that (or is there a reason to keep allowing it?)
[21:36] <bdmurray> It isn't always easy to determine the package name
[21:36] <calc> hmm true
[21:36] <bdmurray> And not every application has launchpad integration
[21:37] <bdmurray> calc: if you look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/no-package-clues.html that uses a bughelper clue file that looks for openoffice bugs
[21:38] <bdmurray> The logic is really weak but would help pear down the potential list from 3100 to something more managable
[21:38] <calc> ah ok
[21:38] <bdmurray> I haven't run it in a bit but could run it now if you'd like
[21:38] <bdmurray> Yeah, I'll do that since there is only ooo bug on there
[21:41] <calc> ok
[21:45] <calc> i've found several so far :)
[21:45] <calc> making my percentage go down :-P
[21:57] <calc> bdmurray: that looks like it would be a good candidate for a bug day just properly classifying bugs don't even really need to do anything else to be a huge help ;-)
[21:58] <bdmurray> Right, we have them every once in a while
[21:59] <greg-g> bdmurray: that no-package-clues page could help out on those days, no?
[21:59] <bdmurray> greg-g: there are lots of false positives in it
[22:00] <greg-g> yeah, saw that.  I guess it would be tough to see track who has checked which ones on that list without creating a separate wiki page, which would probably just create a lot of busy work
[22:00] <greg-g> s/see track/track
[22:04] <sbeattie> bdmurray: it'd be kind of handy to have the descriptions for each bug explodable a la the sru_todo list page I made.
[22:06] <bdmurray> sbeattie: if you look in bugHelper/format/ you can see what to patch. ;)
[22:06] <sbeattie> bdmurray: hehe
[22:17] <calc> looks like i gained about 5 new bugs, some of the others i asked about and put into incomplete directly
[22:17] <calc> dropped my triaged by 1% argh ;-)
[22:41] <JonReagan> hey folks... anyone in?
[22:41] <sbeattie> bdmurray: wanna close bug 164728
[22:42] <JonReagan> I'd like to join the bug sqad
[22:42] <bdmurray> sbeattie: sure feel free
[22:42] <JonReagan> I checked out the wiki page
[22:43] <JonReagan> and I have worked with launchpad before
[22:43] <JonReagan> are there any prereq's before I begin work?
[22:43] <sbeattie> bdmurray: for some reason I'm unable to.
[22:43] <bdmurray> I did a search one time for 'please close this bug' and 'please delete this bug' and found a few bugs to close
[22:43] <bdmurray> sbeattie: really?
[22:43] <sbeattie> bdmurray: doh. launchpad logged me out.
[22:43] <bdmurray> hahaha
[22:44] <bdmurray> JonReagan: yes, apparently you need to be logged in to launchpad
[22:44] <JonReagan> k thx
[22:45] <bdmurray> JonReagan: otherwise, a willingness to learn and a helpful attitude are all that is needed
[22:45] <JonReagan> great! :)
[22:45] <JonReagan> I have just one more question....
[22:46] <JonReagan> Is there any sort of order that I need to follow (are people taking on bugs on a single application at a time?)
[22:46] <JonReagan> or do I need to start picking away at the new entries?
[22:46] <greg-g> picking away at whatever interests you is a good way to start
[22:47] <bdmurray> No, there isn't an order you need to follow.  I find it best if people pick something they like and are interested in.
[22:47] <JonReagan> ah
[22:47] <JonReagan> ok, I can do that
[22:47] <bdmurray> Its a good way to learn more about your favorite application or help improve it.
[22:48] <JonReagan> awesome, thanks for the help bdmurray!
[22:48] <bdmurray> sbeattie: I try to teach people how they could have could have closed it themselves.
[22:48] <JonReagan> I'll sign up for the team shortly
[22:48] <bdmurray> JonReagan: great!  we are happy to have your help
[22:48] <bdmurray> Feel free to ask any questions you might have
[22:49] <JonReagan> I will!  Thanks
[22:50] <sbeattie> bdmurray: alas, some people are harder to teach than others.
[22:50]  * sbeattie stabs finger at mirror accusingly.
[22:50] <bdmurray> sbeattie: if you are using greasemonkey you just need to add the extra words in 1 time though
[22:51] <bdmurray> and then you can teach hunderds of people!
[22:55] <calc> greasemonkey scripts are wonderful :-)
[22:55] <bdmurray> I just added a new one today from thekorn
[22:55] <bdmurray> It allows you to hide certain tags
[22:55] <calc> ah
[22:55] <bdmurray> s/certain/any/
[22:55]  * calc bbia 1hr dinner time
[23:16] <bdmurray> quit()
[23:16] <bdmurray> fail!
[23:18] <Pici> !test
[23:21] <bdmurray> greg-g: is this interesting? http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/most-active-triagers-2008-07.txt
[23:23] <nellery> I see my name!
[23:23] <nellery> But it's pretty far down :(
[23:23] <bdmurray> It's a tough crowd
[23:24] <bdmurray> I thought it might be a way to identify people to recruit into bug control
[23:27] <hggdh> not a bad idea, bdmurray
[23:27] <nellery> so how is it counted?
[23:27] <nellery> by the amount of triaging stuff that show's up in your karma?
[23:28] <bdmurray> This actually just checks the mailing list to see how many messages you've sent.  Not including initial bug reports.
[23:28] <nellery> ah
[23:29] <nellery> so it counts changing/assigning packages and such?
[23:29] <bdmurray> No, just mails
[23:31] <bdmurray> But from there we could then query more on the specifc person to see what they have done
[23:32] <bdmurray> A few of these people I haven't heard of
[23:38] <bdmurray> Yeah, the logic seems sound following Sergio down he's done a lot of work and actually has applied to the team but not sent in an application yet
[23:57] <calc> hmm not too bad i am ranked #4
[23:57] <bdmurray> Well, number 2 doesn't really count
[23:57] <bdmurray> same with 7
[23:58] <calc> wow some community people are really high on the list :)
[23:58] <calc> what does the number represent?
[23:59] <calc> oh number of emails?
[23:59] <bdmurray> number of e-mails sent to the ubuntu-bugs mailing list during the month of july
[23:59] <calc> ah ok
[23:59] <bdmurray> not including initial bug reports