[04:35] <pwnguin> well thats an unfortunate blowup regarding foxconn
[04:49] <AlmightyCthulhu> I'm in contact with Foxconn's Chinese headquarters
[04:49] <AlmightyCthulhu> they say that even after applying my ACPI mods, some types of RAM are freezing the kernel
[04:49] <AlmightyCthulhu> this does not happen in Windows
[05:11] <pwnguin> well, i meant more the instant reaction and villification of foxconn
[06:02] <baron1984> I just got off the phone with Foxconn
[06:02] <baron1984> They called me at 1 AM (here) from China
[06:03] <baron1984> and were asking me to help them with Linux support for their BIOS
[06:03] <pwnguin> heh
[06:04] <pwnguin> if you feel out of your league, just give them canonical's email
[06:04] <pwnguin> or url
[06:04] <pwnguin> they have an OEM vendor cert thing
[06:04] <pwnguin> http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5459641&postcount=120
[06:05] <pwnguin> baron1984: ^ was that a joke?
[06:06] <baron1984> no
[06:06] <baron1984> they actually called me
[06:06] <baron1984> from Shenzen, China
[06:06] <pwnguin> the other part
[06:06] <pwnguin> teh s3kr3t me55ag3
[06:06] <baron1984> the part about them sending me a fixed BIOS ROM?
[06:06] <baron1984> oh, hehehehe
[06:06] <baron1984> yeah
[06:06] <baron1984> that was a joke
[06:07] <pwnguin> sorry, that thread is just so chock full of accusations, vitrol and hate that I can't take anything at face value =(
[06:07] <pwnguin> it seems very un Ubuntu what transpired there
[06:08] <baron1984> what, they gave out a sabotaged BIOS
[06:08] <baron1984> when they get massively and publicly called out on it
[06:08] <pwnguin> its not very collaborative, productive or respectful
[06:08] <baron1984> they go from buy vista screw yourself, to "how can we help?"
[06:08] <pwnguin> granted, they might not have treated you with respect
[06:09] <pwnguin> i think you would have been better off writing an open letter to the acpi folks
[06:10] <AlmightyCthulhu> it's not Intel's fault
[06:10] <pwnguin> intel doesnt run acpi
[06:10] <pwnguin> and acpi owns the acpi trademarks
[06:10] <AlmightyCthulhu> they have a reference implementation of how ACPI should work
[06:10] <AlmightyCthulhu> and a compiler that validly compiles the BIOS code
[06:10] <pwnguin> if someone's claiming "acpi compliance" ACPI probably had a hand involved in it
[06:11] <AlmightyCthulhu> so why are they passing the completely busted  and incorrect Linux table
[06:11] <AlmightyCthulhu> when even Vista's works better?
[06:11] <pwnguin> for the same reason we ship busted software in 8.04
[06:11] <AlmightyCthulhu> they never had any intention to fix it
[06:12] <pwnguin> shit happens, and what isn't a priority slips through the cracks
[06:12] <AlmightyCthulhu> and wouldn't have, unless it broke Vista or XP
[06:12] <pwnguin> clearly they had no intention, but it seems unfair to accuse them of fraud
[06:13] <AlmightyCthulhu> in any event
[06:13] <AlmightyCthulhu> they admitted it was an invalid implementation
[06:13] <AlmightyCthulhu> written by unskilled programmers
[06:13] <pwnguin> (well duh)
[06:13] <AlmightyCthulhu> which makes it non compliant, even if it wasn't their intention
[06:14] <pwnguin> do you know who the acpi sig secretary is?
[06:14] <AlmightyCthulhu> probably Microsoft
[06:14] <pwnguin> bingo
[06:15] <AlmightyCthulhu> probably signs off on bad BIOS implementations
[06:15] <AlmightyCthulhu> just to bite Linux users
[06:15] <pwnguin> at any rate, mjg59 thinks the point is moot since newer kernels masquerade as windows
[06:15] <AlmightyCthulhu> then my mod shouldn't do anything
[06:15] <pwnguin> you two might talk
[06:16] <AlmightyCthulhu> but it does
[06:16] <pwnguin> newer kernels
[06:16] <pwnguin> what are you using?
[06:16] <AlmightyCthulhu> 2.6.26?
[06:16] <AlmightyCthulhu> :P
[06:16] <AlmightyCthulhu> Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.26-4-generic #1 SMP Mon Jul 14 18:39:36 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[06:17] <pwnguin> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/94560.html contains comments from some fairly influential and intelligent people
[06:18] <pwnguin> you two might talk and compare notes. its part of the CoC after all ;)
[06:19] <pwnguin> at any rate, im goin to bed, what i know about dsdt and acpi wouldn't amount to a plate of beans
[06:22] <pwnguin> oh, and I'd love to see a way of keeping up to date on progress via this. now that you brought it up and made it a huge deal, it would be terrible to see it wasted =(
[06:22] <pwnguin> ubuntu-kernel has a fairly low volume ML that might be appropriate, I donno.
[17:30] <ceeka1> i'm getting a kernel oops on ubuntu 7.04. i have set up kdump and crash so i'm able to see where the error occurred... appears to be in line 717 of skbuff.h (skb_dequeue which is inlined into process_backlog) anyone have suggestions where i could start on figuring out what could be going wrong? the machine it crashes on just sits on my network at the office
[19:01] <Nafallo> BenC: ping 3945B :-)
[19:27] <BenC> Nafallo: yes, was there a fix?
[19:27] <BenC> Nafallo: I don't really have a test rig
[19:28] <Nafallo> BenC: ah. should I look for someone that has one or just go with the obscurity of my findings this far in a bugreport? :-)
[19:29] <BenC> Nafallo: I have a 3945 card, just no B network to connect to
[19:29] <Nafallo> yea. same here at the moment :-)
[19:31] <Nafallo> hmm... I should try setting my linksys in B only mode...
[19:31] <Nafallo> not now though. I need my internets :-)
[19:40] <smb_tp> :q
[21:07] <holycow> hi guys
[21:11] <holycow> i have a fujitsu u810 umpc.  everything works great but this thing has a set of keyboard led lights id like to learn how toturn off or on.  i guess ill haveto blearn how to write drivers.  what sorts of techniques should i be looking at when trying to discover how these leds afre turned on?
[21:12] <holycow> lspci  doesnt szeem to show anything that looks like it controls the leds
[21:26] <pwnguin> arent keyboard leds kinda controlled by the keyboard?
[21:27] <pwnguin> i dont think you'd need a PCI slot for that
[21:27] <holycow> not this one, i think its driver controlled but i didnt get windows with it to check
[21:27] <pwnguin> well theres still a driver
[21:27] <pwnguin> its just not PCI
[21:27] <holycow> its two leds on a ledge above the kb starngely
[21:28] <holycow> and i dont see a switch for them ... everything is in japanese
[21:28] <holycow> heh
[21:28] <pwnguin> there's a kernel LED module i think
[21:28] <pwnguin> clever
[21:28] <holycow> oh!
[21:29] <pwnguin> im not sure what it controls, or if its sort of a generic interface for all things that have leds
[21:29] <pwnguin> at any rate, there's also Xkb
[21:29] <holycow> aha, googling
[22:31] <BenC> holycow: usually things like that hang off the parallel port IO range (or similar IO ranges)
[22:32] <BenC> and they are usually poorly documented, requiring IO sniffing in windows to reverse engineer
[22:32] <BenC> or decompiling the windows driver to find out the write/read combos used to control it
[22:32] <holycow> aha!
[22:33] <BenC> holycow: is this keyboard on a USB bus?
[22:33] <BenC> if so, not integrating the led's is a very poor design :)
[22:33] <holycow> lol i dont know, im just starting my journey
[22:33] <pwnguin> holycow: lsusb is a complimantary tool that might help answer that without logic analyzers and taking the device apart ;)
[22:34] <holycow> actually i doubt it
[22:34] <pwnguin> you'd be surprised
[22:34] <holycow> oh right forgot about that
[22:34] <pwnguin> sometimes the quest to reduce costs means integrating several functions into a single chip / bus
[22:34] <pwnguin> even though its more expensive
[22:35] <BenC> pwnguin: I'd be surprised if they hung keyboard led's off a usb bus and not have them hardware integrated into the keyboard itself
[22:35] <pwnguin> true
[22:37] <BenC> actually, I'm surprised they aren't already
[22:37] <holycow> i have a touch screen and a finger scanner on the usb bus
[22:37] <BenC> holycow: are these caps/num lock led's or something else?
[22:38] <holycow> no led controller of any kind ... makes sense
[22:38] <holycow> oh something elese
[22:38] <holycow> they are additional leds on little raisers to light the kb at night
[22:38] <holycow> its a umpc fujitsu u810
[22:38] <BenC> oh, keyboard backlight
[22:39] <holycow> thats it!
[22:39] <BenC> most likely low level IO type things
[22:39] <holycow> that sounds right
[22:40] <holycow> your original suggestion is probable the right approach
[22:40] <BenC> under windows does it change the keyboard backlight based on ambient lighting in the room?
[22:40] <BenC> or is it manual control?
[22:40] <holycow> manual
[22:42] <BenC> might be good to email fujitsu to see if they are willing to cough up specs
[22:42] <holycow> fgqrtyu-=
[22:42] <holycow> oops sorry
[22:43] <holycow> BenC: indeedy, will do
[22:43] <pwnguin> BenC: i saw your talk on hardware whoring
[22:43] <holycow> thx for the heads up
[22:43] <BenC> pwnguin: hehe
[22:44] <pwnguin> i thought it was kinda wierd, because it didnt mention how developers can get in touch with the right people
[22:44] <BenC> damn innanet
[22:44] <pwnguin> it was basically all "when vendors call you"
[22:44] <BenC> pwnguin: I've never had to go that route
[22:45] <BenC> pwnguin: and doing so is usually different (and difficult) depending on the company you are talking about
[22:45] <pwnguin> apparently if you call the FTC and claim they're committing fraud they get you in touch with people
[22:45] <BenC> pwnguin: good starting points are linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org archives to find out if an engineer from that company has already come out
[22:46] <BenC> and similar places...websites are good places too, but always hard to find something other than customer support
[22:46] <pwnguin> i guess what i'm saying is it might be a good idea to give people ideas on constructively contacting the right people
[22:46] <pwnguin> but thanks for the tips
[22:46] <BenC> true, but it wasn't an area where I had experience, so I neglected to mention anything :)
[22:47] <pwnguin> if you're invited to give the talk again, i might suggest pointing out the deficiency as a way of starting a dialog at the end of the talk :)
[22:47] <holycow> slowly windowsonly hardware is starting to lessen tho
[22:48] <BenC> pwnguin: good idea, thanks for the feedback
[22:48] <pwnguin> sure
[22:48] <holycow> hopefully vendors will buildintotheirproduct cycles better community interaction
[22:48] <pwnguin> doubtful
[22:48] <pwnguin> product cycles dont fit into neat six month releases
[22:49] <holycow> well i dont meant ubuntu community specifically, just thinking more generically
[22:49] <pwnguin> intel hired some smart people to deal with that, but i think we'll quickly see a "peak keithp" similar to "peak oil"
[22:50] <holycow> heh
[22:52] <holycow> bbl low on battery powr
[22:52] <holycow> thx for the help btw
[22:52] <pwnguin> BenC: is there a better resource for toshiba than that website?
[22:59] <BenC> holycow: np
[22:59] <BenC> pwnguin: Don't know off hand