[03:20] <RussellGee> Could some have a look at this please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/250524
[05:11] <crimsonredmk> hey, i've got a question, downloaded alpha 3
[05:13] <crimsonredmk> how is vmware intergration done, is it a package?
[05:14] <crimsonredmk> or a new X driver or...well, what is it?
[05:44] <fabbione> Fjodor: nope... cph
[10:06] <andy_js> IS UBUNTU PROPRIETARY?
[10:07] <andy_js> According to Google, the patch for Visual effects is not publicly available.  Please prove otherwise.
[10:10] <jazzkutya> andy_js_: patch for what?
[10:11] <andy_js_> Patch for the "Visual Effects" tab in ubuntu's gnome-appearance-properties
[10:12] <jazzkutya> what packaget it is in?
[10:12] <jazzkutya> i guess apt-get source should retreive it correctly
[10:13] <jazzkutya> but i am not an ubuntu developer
[10:13] <jazzkutya> retrieve
[10:13] <andy_js_> A post on the Ubuntu forum led me to believe the patch was not included in the sources in the repos
[10:14] <jcristau> andy_js_: you believe everything you read on web forums?
[10:17] <jpds> andy_js_: apt-get source gnome-control-center
[10:17] <andy_js_> I've heard a lot of things about ubuntu, maybe they are just rumors
[10:17] <jpds> andy_js_: Look in the source, debian/patches/95_desktop-efffects-intrgration.diff
[10:17] <jpds> andy_js_: And voila, i's GPLv2.
[10:17] <jpds> its*
[10:18] <andy_js_> thank you
[10:18] <andy_js_> jpds: You work for canonical?
[10:18] <jpds> andy_js_: No.
[14:11] <devfil> Hobbsee: can you please take a look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/imlib2/1.4.0-1.1ubuntu1 ?
[14:13] <Hobbsee> oh, shucks.
[14:14] <devfil> it needs a package in universe, but imlib2 is in main
[14:14] <Hobbsee> yes, i can see that....
[14:14] <devfil> in this case the dependency is added manually?
[14:14] <Hobbsee> !info libltdl3-dev
[14:15] <Hobbsee> added manually?
[14:15] <Hobbsee> yes, i'ts not via shlibdeps.
[14:15] <devfil> there are other packages with the same problem
[14:15]  * Hobbsee wonders why libltdl7-dev never got promoted.
[14:15] <Hobbsee> what, that they require hte old lib?
[14:16] <devfil> no that they need a package in universe to build but there are in main
[14:16] <Hobbsee> which others?
[14:17] <devfil> uhm I don't remember now let me search
[14:17] <Hobbsee> pitti: do you know why libltdl7-dev was never promoted?  libltdl3-dev was in main, then appears to have been NBS'd out.  I presume this is an oversight?
[14:18] <Hobbsee> (presumably it got forgotten about with the sync)
[14:25] <devfil> Hobbsee: denemo (main) needs libaubio-dev (universe)
[14:26] <Hobbsee> devfil: can you file a bug on that, and assign it to ogra?  (if there's not already one there)
[14:26] <Hobbsee> oh, wait, he already knows about it
[14:26] <ion_> Oh, denemo is in main? In that case, why is lilypond not?
[14:26] <Hobbsee> MIR is probably already on it's way
[14:26] <Hobbsee> ion_: *shrug*
[14:27] <devfil> directfb needs libts-dev
[14:27] <devfil> etc...
[14:29] <Hobbsee> ah yes, that's on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[14:30]  * Hobbsee assumes that the MIR's will get processed soon
[17:39] <alex-weej> are "apport-bug" tagged bugs given less priority than normal?
[17:39] <alex-weej> i use ubuntu-bug -p all the time to file bugs because it attaches all the right info
[18:49] <theclaw> is the bytecood interpreter in the hardy version of freetype disabled?
[18:51] <theclaw> I encounter exactly the same problem as describe in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freetype/+bug/60760
[20:36] <LaserJock> anybody know what happened to the Network system config GUI?
[20:38] <Rocket2DMn> LaserJock, see bug 248163
[20:40] <LaserJock> Rocket2DMn: ah, thank you very much. I suspected something like that
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> you can install the program from the repos in the meantime
[20:40] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I'm doing
[20:42] <LaserJock> hmm, it still seems sort of messed up
[20:42] <Rocket2DMn> i havent checked lately, feel free to add to the bug report if needed though
[20:43] <LaserJock> I can't turn a Connection off from the gnome-network-admin
[20:43] <LaserJock> I can only set whether I want roaming or not
[20:43] <LaserJock> I guess if I set it to not roam bug leave it unconfigured it might suffice
[20:44] <LaserJock> yuck, I can't even do that
[20:44] <Rocket2DMn> good luck, im on my way out the door
[20:53] <slangasek> Keybuk: does libltdl7-dev not provide API compatibiltiy with libltdl3-dev?  (Or if it does, is there a reason it doesn't have a Provide: that's a consistent build-dependable interface?)
[20:56] <Keybuk> slangasek: ask Debian ;)
[21:01] <alex1> hi guys. I've created a patch for the appleir kernel module in the linux-ubuntu-modules package. what mailing list should I send the patch to?
[21:02] <crimsun> kernel-team at lists dot ubuntu
[21:02] <crimsun> you may wish to subscribe prior
[21:03] <alex1> crimsun, thanks
[21:14] <pwnguin> is this sslv2 stuff about servers or clients?
[21:23] <geser> pwnguin: it's about sslv2 support in openssl, so servers and clients are affected
[21:23] <pwnguin> well then
[21:24] <pwnguin> this might be stupid
[21:24] <geser> why?
[21:24] <pwnguin> i can't say I know enough about ssl and the history, but there are embedded devices that run ssl
[21:25] <pwnguin> if they happen to predate v3, that's kinda dangerous territory
[21:26] <geser> and they use sslv2 and not sslv3?
[21:26] <pwnguin> maybe, I don't know enough about it
[21:28] <pwnguin> but i havent really seen that discussed on the ML and I thought it was worth mentioning
[21:29] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: IMNSHO it's better with a visible breakage than having devices which are silently broken.
[21:29] <Mithrandir> since SSLv2 has vulnerabilities
[21:29] <pwnguin> wouldn't a warning be appropriate?
[21:29] <pwnguin> well
[21:29] <pwnguin> i guess some uses of SSL desire to be as invisible as possible
[21:31] <pwnguin> but i mean, you can force ssh to accept older protocols, cant you?
[21:32] <ScottK> SSLv2 should not be considered cryptographically secure in 2008.  Continuing to support it would be irresponsible.
[21:32] <pwnguin> breaking it would be user hostile
[21:32] <ScottK> Personally, I wanted this done for Intrepid, but didn't get to it.
[21:33] <ScottK> Anyone who needs v2 can run Hardy for 3 to 5 years.  That's plenty of warning.
[21:33] <pwnguin> fair enough
[21:33] <pwnguin> ScottK: do we still ship telnet?
[21:33] <ScottK> Yes, but it does not pretend to be secure.
[21:34] <ScottK> ftp too.
[21:35] <ScottK> Shipping things that are, by design, not secure and that lack of security is well known is fundamentally different than shipping with support for ancient versions of security protocols that are known not to be secure any longer.
[21:35] <Mithrandir> (as well as ktelnet, kftp, telnet-ssl and similar relativetly secure solutions)
[21:35]  * ScottK is a big user of sftp.
[21:35] <Laney> ScottK: Would you be in favour of removing WEP support then?
[21:36] <ScottK> Laney: That's a good question.
[21:36] <Mithrandir> Laney: if barely no users used it, yes, please.
[21:36] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: and that's the right question to be asking
[21:36] <pwnguin> How many people are affected by the change and how?
[21:36] <Mithrandir> but a fairly significant amount of the user base needs it; no.  We might want to add more visible warnings when WEP is in use, though.
[21:36] <ScottK> Laney: I think at this point we should be encouraging WPA.
[21:37] <ScottK> Planning for getting rid of obsolete cruft is not something we do very well.
[21:37] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: ah yes. http://chipzz.livejournal.com/39111.html :)
[21:37] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: TTBOMK, nobody has pointed at anything concrete actually needing SSLv2?
[21:37] <Laney> Of course. I was just going for a similar example that would (probably) have more impact
[21:37] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: how could they? ubuntu-devel is moderated
[21:38] <ScottK> pwnguin: The moderation queue gets cleared regularly.
[21:38] <Laney> Could it be temporarily disabled for the alphas and then we watch the bugs and confirm/revert later?
[21:38] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: plus, there's a selection bias
[21:38] <ScottK> ivoks reply to my GnuTLS question only lagged on ubuntu-devel by a couple of hours.
[21:39] <ScottK> Laney: I'd suggest something like announcing NOW that the next LTS, 10.04 will ship without WEP support, so get ready.
[21:39] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: what I'm seeing is people trying to find anything that needs SSLv2 and failing, so this is more widespread than "I don't use it myself, so drop it".
[21:39] <Laney> ScottK: I was referring to SSL, but yes that could be a plan.
[21:39] <Mithrandir> ScottK: probably too early, I'm afraid. :-/
[21:40] <ScottK> Probably.
[21:40] <Laney> I'd like to be able to get other distros/upstreams on board for a change like that though
[21:40] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: The thing is, I dont have the world's supply of embedded network devices handy
[21:40] <Laney> (WEP)
[21:40] <ScottK> Personally I pitched all my WEP only gear in ~2001, but I know a lot of people still use it.
[21:40] <Mithrandir> but I'm all for adding big, fat warnings to NM when you connect to a WEP "secured" network.
[21:40] <ScottK> That sounds good.
[21:40] <Chipzz> ScottK: nintendo ds doesn't do anything but WEP
[21:41] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: I used to have a stargate at work for a base station for TinyOS stuff. it ran an ancient kernel and it wouldn't surprise me if it were SSLv2
[21:41] <ScottK> OK, so maybe 12.04
[21:41] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: most of the embedded network devices I've seen that people are using at home (which means routers etc) don't even use SSL at all.
[21:41] <Mithrandir> since using SSL means you have to have a match between host name and SSL cert and be able to update the cert when it expires.
[21:42] <ScottK> My father hired someone to come set up his wireless network (he lives a long way from me) and they set it up as WEP, even though all the devices supported WPA.  I have no idea why.
[21:42] <ScottK> IME WPA is actually easier to set up.
[21:42] <pwnguin> i believe bruce runs wep
[21:42] <Laney> First option on the list?
[21:42] <ScottK> Possibly.
[21:43] <Laney> pwnguin: Schneier? I thought he ran unencrypted
[21:43] <Mithrandir> even Windows XP and such warns that WEP isn't secure.
[21:43] <pwnguin> Laney: perhaps.
[21:43] <pwnguin> WEP is protects against a certain threat model
[21:43] <ScottK> I've noticed now that when I'm in a position to see a lot of networks is about 10% unencrypted, 80% WEP, and 10% WPA.
[21:43] <ScottK> 3 years ago it was about 90% unencrypted.
[21:43] <Mithrandir> WEP is like closing your office door, signalling that you don't want to be disturbed.
[21:44] <pwnguin> the idiot neighbor and marginally interested internet thieves
[21:44] <ScottK> Which is useful when lots of other people don't have doors at all, but if everyone has the door closed, no so much.
[21:45] <pwnguin> http://my.opera.com/yngve/blog/2007/10/03/new-w-not-in-kestrel-the-death-of-ssl-v2
[21:46] <pwnguin> after reading that, I think it might be okay
[21:47] <Mithrandir> heh, yngve blogs now?
[21:47] <pwnguin> apparently
[21:47] <pwnguin> it was the first hit for "sslv2"
[21:47] <pwnguin> well, among them
[21:48] <Mithrandir> and FF doesn't support it either, AIUI?
[21:48] <Mithrandir> well, libnss doesn't
[21:48] <pwnguin> well who's libnss
[21:48] <pwnguin> ours or firefox's?
[21:51] <Mithrandir> NSS is the Firefox SSL library.
[21:51] <Mithrandir> Netscape Security Support or somesuch
[21:51] <Mithrandir> Description: Network Security Service libraries
[21:59] <pwnguin> actually, some wierd stuff uses libnss, and if I read a bug correctly, mozilla demands we ship THEIR library
[22:01] <pwnguin> I believe the fix was to build the libnss they ship and link mozilla to it, but leave the rest alone
[22:01] <cjwatson> in general I would advise against trying to reverse-engineer discussions with mozilla from reading random bug reports
[22:02] <pwnguin> heh
[22:02] <pwnguin> in specific?
[22:02] <cjwatson> I haven't read this one
[22:03] <cjwatson> mozilla have asked that we put our patches through their review process (aside from some classes generally agreed to be unobjectionable) in order to use firefox branding
[22:03] <cjwatson> that doesn't equate to "must use mozilla's libnss" as far as I know
[22:04] <pwnguin> lemme dig up the bug for ya
[22:04] <cjwatson> no thanks, it's approaching bedtime
[22:04] <pwnguin> alright
[22:04] <cjwatson> I'm confident in asac's ability to deal with it appropriately :)
[22:04] <pwnguin> the reasoning i saw is that our libnss broke weave, and that not shipping their libnss sounded like a branding problem
[22:05] <pwnguin> weave works today, so i guess we're ok
[23:27] <IntuitiveNipple> Is there a recommended way for an application to determine the system-default file manager (so whether it is Ubuntu, Xubuntu, etc. a file-manager can be started) ?
[23:28] <ion_> If “xdg-open .” doesn’t do exactly that, it should be fixed. :-)
[23:35] <IntuitiveNipple> ion_: Thanks... that'll be good for [XK]*ubuntu ? (I'm creating a patch for an app that currently does "os.system("nautilus --browser  obex://["+dest+"] &")"
[23:36] <ion_> intuitivenipple: Sorry, i’m not sure it works anywhere. It doesn’t seem to work in Gnome.
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> oh... it did for me just now :)
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> I'm on Ubuntu Hardy
[23:37] <ion_> Heh, interesting.
[23:37] <ion_> I’m on intrepid.
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> ahh well!
[23:37] <IntuitiveNipple> thanks anyway... Googling wasn't helping solve that one
[23:38] <ion_> But i think it should be the right way to do it, as soon as it’s fixed to work in every environment. :-)
[23:38] <emgent> hello
[23:38] <ion_> Hi
[23:49] <IntuitiveNipple> darn. xdg-open fails with an obex:// service ("Error showing url: Service not available")