jmarsdenRainCT: OK.  I think it was cody-sommerville who gave me an example that used that style, so I've been doing it that way.  I suppose it keeps the changelog shorter to just put (LP: #123456) at the end of the line describing the change.00:02
* NCommander raises his hands, and upgrades REVU again00:02
jmarsdenNCommander: Are you typing with your feet? :-)00:03
NCommanderI'm making revu pretty(er)00:03
jmarsdenNCommander: how is all the stuff linking it to PPAs?  Done already?00:04
NCommanderjmarsden, sorta done, I'm working on improving the general interface first00:04
NCommanderjmarsden, http://nemesisnetworks.com/revu-html00:04
NCommanderThat's whats about to become on REVU00:04
copproI think MOTUs should be MsOTU00:05
jmarsdenNCommander: I just browsed http://revu.tauware.de/ and it shows a mod_python error... is that your doing??00:05
cody-somervillejmarsden, sometimes that makes sense00:06
lagaRainCT: people at my university are building an elevator control system using dialogos, i can probably get you some pictures once they're done ;)00:06
RainCTlaga: great :). what's dialogo's homepage?00:06
jmarsdencody-somerville: Is there a Wiki page describing Ubuntu changelog style?  Would one be useful to newcomers?00:07
NCommanderI forgot to upload a file00:07
RainCTNCommander: you can do bzr push --overwrite and 3 bzr pull --overwrite 's if you want a nice log00:07
RainCTNCommander: but don't get used to it :P00:07
RainCTawesome :)00:08
NCommanderWhat an improvement00:08
NCommanderjmarsden, take a look now00:08
RainCTNCommander rocks :)00:08
jmarsdenNCommander: Yep, that looks better!00:09
ember_NCommander s/hestitate/hesitate00:09
NCommanderI just got sick of brown00:09
RainCTNCommander: uhm.. why are there needs work entries without the hammer00:09
NCommanderThat's how that got started :-P00:09
=== ember_ is now known as ember
NCommanderOh crud00:09
NCommanderThose are actually updated packages00:09
NCommanderI thought I fixed this little glitch00:09
NCommanderhold on, I think I know how to fix00:10
NCommanderTHat's frustatingly anonying00:11
RainCTjmarsden: back to your debdiff, wouldn't it be better to just include the new .desktop file in debian/, considering that you are replacing upstream's one completely?00:14
jmarsdenRainCT: I wondered about that... I can do it that way, sure.  Is there a practical benefit to one approach over the other?00:15
RainCTjmarsden: (and I've changed the short description in debian/control from "creates" to "graphical application to create". afaikt package descriptions don't use to start with verbs)00:16
RainCTjmarsden: well, basically that the debdiff and .diff.gz are easier to read, but it doesn't really matter00:16
jmarsdenRainCT: OK.  Re the synopsis... I'll re-read policy, I thought it basically says "a short descriptive phrase", and phrases can sometimes start with a verb, I think.00:19
slangasekif it starts with a verb that makes it a clause ;)00:19
slangasekpolicy ought to, but doesn't, say that the short desc should be a noun phrase00:20
jmarsdenslangasek: OK.  Should one of us file a bug against it to that effect :-)00:21
RainCTjmarsden: also, you've to think as the short description as "<packagename> is <short description>"00:22
jmarsdenHmmm.  OK.  I just checked with a 'famous' package, dpkg -l openoffice.org-writer and it doesn't seem to quite fit, and it started with an upper case letter... oh well.00:23
jmarsdenWhere is the right place to document this kind of packaging "best practice" information?00:24
* jmarsden thinks if I'm going to learn from my mistakes, maybe others can learn from them too :-)00:25
geserNCommander, Iulian: I just came back from the data center from our club, which was full of water after a heavy rain00:26
NCommandergeser, call the fire department00:26
NCommandergeser, if it cheers you up, REVU got an upgrade and a face lift00:26
geserNCommander: why tried, they called us we need to wait 4 or 5 hours and later when we called again, that need at least 20 cm for their pumps and we got only 15 cm or so00:28
NCommandergeser, sounds about right00:28
NCommandergeser, start the bucket brigade then :-P00:28
* NCommander is a firefighter, and has done that when the pumps failed00:28
geserwe had got some smaller pumps and got the most water out again00:29
NCommanderThas good00:29
NCommanderAt least it could be worse00:29
geserthe interesting part is the main power connectors to our UPS's were completely under water and still worked00:30
RainCTjmarsden: on your wiki page, for example :)00:30
NCommandergeser, you could have it worse; check out these guys http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/A-Bit-More-Dire.aspx00:30
geserwhat we can tell now is that some furniture got damaged by the water but nothing technical00:30
* jmarsden thinks a lot of well known packages don't have good synopses, based on what I'm learning... gcc, binutils, etc. 00:31
RainCTalso, note that packages by Canonical employees are usually not good examples00:31
* RainCT hides :P00:31
jmarsdenRainCT: I can do that, but few wannabee MOTUs are going to be reading my wiki page!00:31
geserNCommander: http://fun.drno.de/movies/serverraum.avi is like our situation but we didn't have windows in the server room00:33
NCommandergeser, no, I won't use windows as a server OS either00:34
geserNCommander: real windows, not the one from MS00:34
NCommanderClassy server room then00:34
NCommanderWe use an old AIX server as our chair in our server room00:34
* jmarsden waits for the punchline... "if you sit down too hard, it reboots" ?00:35
directhexthe age of computing hasn't been the same since computers stopped also being furniture00:35
RainCTjmarsden: well, I'm thinking since some time that we should have a "common mistakes" page (to refer to it from REVU and so)00:36
RainCTwhat do you think about that guys?00:36
NCommanderRainCT, I'm game00:36
NCommanderRainCT, we can put "How to not upgrade a server" on it ;-)00:36
NCommanderSo what do people think of the new REVU look?00:37
directhexgeser, a machine room underwater breaks my heart :(00:37
NCommanderdirecthex, it could be worse. It could have been vaporized00:38
geserdirecthex: not only yours, we needed more than 6 hours to get most water out again00:39
directhexgeser, how long before you can survey the equipment for survivors? :(00:39
jmarsdenRainCT: Looks like there used to be one, but it got merged into the Packaging Guide.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-c17f31ae0d8b97d4e679e2289707746e3c89fae000:39
RainCTyes, but that one is pretty short00:40
RainCTnot sure if we should make it longer00:40
directhexNCommander, it's seeing disaster vids like the above that makes me a little happier about using an enormously dangerous fire suppression system00:41
NCommanderWell, as a fire fighter00:41
NCommanderSupression systems usually help00:41
NCommanderAnd they save our lives and equipment00:41
jmarsdenRainCT: Maybe is should be an appendix to the guide, or something like that?00:41
directhexNCommander, as long as nobody with any breathing difficulties whatsoever goes near our machine room..... and have you seen the average equipment integrator?00:42
NCommanderYeah, I've dealt with HVACs00:43
NCommanderOh wait00:43
* NCommander brainfart00:43
directhexour machine room is a reduced oxygen atmosphere. a few visiots have had a bit of a funny turn when entering00:44
jmarsdenNCommander: I think directhex means the suppression systems that make the room oxygen-poor, as though it is a high altitude?00:44
directhexjmarsden, spot on00:44
NCommanderThat's dangerous00:44
NCommanderI'm suprised that's even legal00:44
directhexNCommander, only if you don't like working at altitude!00:44
NCommanderdirecthex, I work on limited air enough00:45
* NCommander has run out air in a fire00:45
directhex15% ought to be enough for anybody00:45
NCommanderScary ass situation00:45
NCommanderAt 15, you get dizzy, but still can function00:45
NCommanderIts 12 when you pass out00:45
NCommanderand 9 when you die00:45
directhexNCommander, but 15 is also at a level where fires won't hold00:45
NCommanderdirecthex, yeah, but you create an incredibly dangerous setup which could cause a backdraft00:46
NCommanderOne good backdraft, and the only thing that will be left of that room is MAYBE the floor00:46
directhexdon't look at me, the university insurers insisted on fire suppression. and nobody seems to like halon anymore00:47
directhexpumping nitrogen into the room seemed like a good idea at the time00:47
NCommanderdirecthex, with good reason00:48
NCommanderhalon will kill you00:48
NCommanderHell, we're not even allowed to enter a building once a halon system goes unless we know someone is in there00:48
directhexNCommander, so will a fully loaded rack00:48
NCommanderWe have to call in HAZMAT in all other situations00:48
jmarsdenFM-200 may be a decent alternative to Halon these days?  Not that I work in that kind of environment...00:50
directhexi wish the Powers That Be would make up their minds over the dangers of oxyreduct00:50
directhexwe've been told everything between "no special measures needed" to "wear hazmat suit"00:50
NCommanderjmarsden, I heard it had some issues. If you want a fire out, Halon still the way to go. I know a lot of places that are underground which conviential firefighting is near impossible its still used00:51
NCommanderIt stops the chain reaction just like that00:51
NCommander(damn impressive stuff, I've seen it used)00:51
directhexcurrently i'm under orders to turn off the nitrogen plant & open the doors to let the levels rise. but that involves going to a small shed on the roof :/00:51
directhexwhich is a  PITA when just swapping an ethernet cable00:51
NCommanderdirecthex, where do you work, National Archives?00:52
NCommanderI can't picture a company being THAT paranoid00:52
RainCTjmarsden: beh am I slow today :P. try to avoid lines longer than 80 characters in debian/changelog (and basically everywhere :P)00:53
directhexaha, here it is. http://www.wagner.de/fire-prevention/operation/index.html?L=200:53
directhexdirecthex@mortos:~$ echo "jmarsden: beh am I slow today :P. try to avoid lines longer than 80 characters in debian/changelog (and basically everywhere :P)" | wc00:53
directhex      1      21     12900:53
directhexnot everywhere ;)00:53
NCommanderdirecthex, I'm planning on adding a changelog preview to the details page soon00:54
NCommanderJust to make life easier00:54
NCommanderI need to run for about 10 minutes, but before I do, can I get your opinions on the updated REVU directhex and geser?00:55
directhexooh, the new stylesheet looks much more pro00:56
directhexneeds a logo, but still00:56
NCommanderdirecthex, well, a few people saw my working prototype00:56
NCommanderand begged it went on production00:56
NCommanderSo it did00:56
NCommanderIt got started with the fact I got sick of brown00:57
NCommander(a brown skin WILL return; all the color changes are just CSS)00:57
NCommanderdirecthex, logins are now integrated with LP (although it bugs out with noscript),00:57
NCommanderkeysyncing is history00:58
NCommander(keys are synced on first login, and then new keys are downloaded if needed on subsequent logins)00:58
nhandlerNCommander, I like the new style sheet. I just need to get used to the smaller font00:58
NCommandernhandler, I might have made it too small, its still a work in progress00:58
NCommanderI based it off the design of LP's bug tracker00:58
NCommanderTrying to keep the good elements, and loosing the bad00:59
NCommanderlike I reversed the queue ordering, making it a FIFO00:59
NCommander(newest uploads appear at the top)00:59
NCommandernhandler, directhex, geser as an added bonus, the blob of text disappears once you login01:00
RainCTjmarsden: (I'm pbuilding now and will upload after that)01:01
jmarsdenRainCT: Cool, thanks!01:01
nhandlerNCommander: Very cool. That blob was a little annoying. But you might consider allowing the user to toggle it on and off. That way, they can access the information without having to logout01:02
RainCTjmarsden: btw, next time you touch an Ubuntu package, as in a package which doesn't come from Debian, it may be worth to ping the Maintainer01:03
RainCTas he knows it better01:03
RainCTNCommander: what did I say about the blob? :P01:03
NCommandernhandler, actually, I wanted to do that, but I don't know enough javascript to implement that01:05
* jdong feels like such a nerd at the moment... he is sitting at his very first thinkpad X6101:07
RainCTNCommander: it's easy, I can do it if you do the visual part ;)01:07
NCommanderRainCT, yes please :-)01:07
NCommanderI'm not very good with java script01:07
* NCommander is currently drafting an email01:07
RainCTit's basically changing the CSS property "display" to "none"01:08
NCommanderRainCT, grab the current trunk, and just edit the info html page01:08
RainCTto hide it and back to whatever (I haven't done much web stuff this last year :P) it is to show it again01:08
NCommanderI have to fix the resizing on one of the icons01:09
NCommanderAnd some more work01:09
* RainCT tries to remember of some page where he did that01:09
NCommanderBut it's such a massive improvement ...01:09
RainCTNCommander: yep.. pray that siretart won't want you to revert it :P01:09
NCommanderHe liked it01:10
NCommanderAlthough I think he was less thrilled about the purple/blush then I was01:10
jmarsdenNCommander: Is there a per-login themed REVU in your future :-)01:10
NCommanderjmarsden, yup01:10
jmarsdenThought so.01:11
NCommanderIf you really miss the old style, you just need to load the old style sheet01:11
geserNCommander: can you make the columns of the different tables be the same width in each table? so the entries don't move more left or right01:11
* RainCT proposed the same some hours ago :)01:11
NCommandergeser, I will as soon as I remember enough CSS/HTML to do so, this was sorta a rushed out to make RainCT happy release01:11
* RainCT pulls01:12
jmarsdenNCommander: You should put that in the changelog :-)01:12
NCommanderput what in the changelog?01:12
jmarsdenNCommander: "this was sorta a rushed out to make RainCT happy release"01:12
RainCTsure, now I am the evil01:12
NCommanderaren't you?01:12
* NCommander runs01:13
NCommanderj/k ;-)01:13
RainCTof course I am01:13
NCommanderYou are greatly appreciated RainCT01:13
RainCTnah, you are ;)01:13
NCommanderI'm no MOTU, you make my packages enter univere01:13
* NCommander would like to add an autouploader to REVU once a package gets two advocations01:14
RainCTgood argument01:14
* wgrant wouldn't like REVU to have an archive key....01:14
RainCTNCommander: continue dreaming :P01:14
RainCTyou just want to abuse your admin privs :P01:14
NCommanderI said like01:15
NCommanderI know realistically it won't happen01:15
NCommanderUnless I add a way someone can upload a signed changes file01:15
* NCommander strokes beard01:15
* RainCT objects now before you think more about it :P01:16
geserNCommander: try <colgroup> and several <col width="some value" /> (see like I've done it for the FTBFS page)01:16
RainCTanyway.. let's see if I do the hide think01:16
NCommandergeser, thank you :-)01:16
RainCTgeser: <colgroup>  o_O01:16
* NCommander is right now drafting an email to -motu01:16
RainCTis that new?01:16
NCommanderSInce I broke REVU for anyone who uses noscript :-/01:17
NCommanderor LP did01:17
RainCTNCommander: where should I put the link?01:17
NCommander Put it under View: *list*01:17
NCommanderAnd if you want to straighten the tables out, that would be an added bonus01:17
NCommander(can you also commit the index.py thats in my home folder in spooky)01:18
RainCTwhat does it have?01:19
NCommanderRainCT, fixes the New Package list to not also include the Updated Packages01:20
RainCTand why do you put it in your home? :P01:20
NCommander(I coded it right on production ... probably a bad habit)01:20
geserRainCT: new since HTML 4.001:20
geseryou can of course also specify the width in the data cells01:21
RainCTgeser: what's the difference?01:22
RainCToh, it's in my HTML4 book01:23
NCommandermy HTML book is 3.2 ...01:23
NCommanderTime to buy a new book01:23
jmarsdenRainCT: I just got emails that the build of koverartist failed... ?01:24
RainCTbtw, does someone want to build a Visual Basic 5.0 book? :P01:24
RainCTjmarsden: don't worry it's in my PPA01:24
RainCTjmarsden: my PC wanted to download dependencies during 45 minutes :P01:24
jmarsdenWow, you must have a slow net connection?  OK.01:25
RainCT(don't worry = don't worry, but fix it ;))01:25
RainCTyep.. I've a 3G modem01:25
jmarsdenOK... I can fix it... can I d/l it from your PPA?  I've only used my own PPA so far, not someone elses!01:26
wgrantRainCT: Why is julius-voxforge in NEW, but julius itself isn't?01:26
RainCTwgrant: because I accidentally uploaded it - feel free to reject it01:27
RainCT* I uploaded it accidentally, rather. I write strange after midnight (and before, too) :P01:27
wgrantRainCT: I don't have such powers. I was just checking if we'd see it in Intrepid soon, as it looks rather interesting.01:27
wgrantThat sentence was fine.01:28
RainCTwgrant: :)01:28
RainCTyep, but I don't like it :P01:28
NCommanderRiddell, ping01:28
RainCTNCommander: remember? weekend ;P01:29
NCommanderRainCT, got the tables fixed?01:30
RainCTNCommander: there's something wrong with the code in index.php from your home01:31
RainCTNCommander: you check if isNew is True/False, but it defaults to 'false' (str)01:32
NCommanderRainCT, ack, thats a left over from the conflict01:32
NCommanderMind clearing that up ;-)01:32
RainCTshould it be True, or the other two strings?01:32
RainCT* False01:32
* RainCT should really finish now and go sleep :P01:32
NCommanderI don't know off the top of my head01:33
* NCommander finishs his email to ubuntu-motu01:33
RainCTI added a FIXME01:33
NCommanderRainCT, check your inbox for the email I just sent to Ubuntu-motu01:34
NCommanderAnd please weigh in before leaving us01:34
RainCTin which .html is the uploads table?01:34
NCommanderRainCT, its printed out in code01:35
NCommanderNot an .html01:35
RainCTugly :P01:35
RainCTok, listheader.html i tis01:37
jmarsdenRainCT: koverartist build failed because of a KDE dependency issue of some kind... is that really my fault, or is that an Intrepid KDE library problem of some kind?01:39
NCommanderhey emgent01:39
jmarsdenRainCT: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16340421/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.koverartist_0.5-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz01:39
RainCTseems like it's intrepid01:39
jmarsdenRainCT: That's what I thought... shuold I file a bug somehow about that?01:40
RainCTNCommander: I get a giant heart :P01:42
NCommanderRainCT, yeah, I wanted to drive home the fact that some packages are ready for upload ;-)01:42
NCommander(actually, I forgot to resize that image and reave as heart_small.png)01:42
* jmarsden thinks... well, it was "the release to make RainCT happy" :-)01:42
NCommanderIt made me happy to01:44
NCommanderNO MORE BROWN!01:44
NCommanderMy mail to ubuntu-motu bounced01:44
nhandlerWhy did it bounce?01:45
NCommanderIt says I'm unsubscribed01:45
NCommanderBut I know I am01:45
jmarsdenNCommander: Do you have multiple email addresses?  Which one did you send from... etc.01:46
NCommanderJust sonicmctails@gmail.com01:46
NCommanderIt does this will all ubuntu lists01:46
jmarsdenNCommander: Then either someone somewhere in the Ubuntu mail processing crew hates you, or you really are unsubscribed...?01:47
NCommanderI get all emails sent to the list01:47
NCommanderI can see the Welcome to list01:47
NCommanderThere it goes01:48
NCommanderTook two tries01:48
NCommanderjmarsden, care to weigh in?01:48
NCommanderyeah I saw01:49
NCommanderWhy didn't I spell check this -_-;01:50
NCommanderI think I need to go to bed01:50
NCommanderJust start replying :-P01:52
vorianNCommander: nice job :)01:52
NCommanderon breaking REVU with everyone who has noscript?01:52
* NCommander isn't sure if thats a feature or a bug01:52
NCommanderIt requires people to loosen the tin foil01:52
RainCToh, that wasn't intended? *g*01:53
* NCommander whacks RainCT 01:53
NCommandervorian, REVU actually going to get attached to an autobuilder network so packages can be built and caught for early failure before going through the NEW queue, and then blowing apart in four of the five release archs ;-)01:53
voriannice :)01:54
RainCTNCommander: please *don't* edit files in place - I just got a conflict :P01:54
NCommanderRainCT, do a bzr revert before merging01:54
NCommandervorian, well, I'm debating if I want to actually bother with dak, or go try mini-dak01:55
voriani think it looks much better in blue btw01:55
* NCommander has used dak before, and has already lost a great number of brain cells01:55
* NCommander worhsips vorian 01:55
NCommandersomeone else who said it!01:55
RainCTNCommander: that would undo the Config.py changes01:55
NCommanderRainCT, bzr revert index.py01:55
RainCTI'm too lazy :P01:55
* NCommander hits you over the head with his dak server01:56
vorianNCommander: how are the accounts figured, seems mine reverted ...01:56
NCommandervorian, we didn't migrate over user permissions. If you want reviewer/admin back, you need to merge your old one01:56
NCommanderThe problem is here the lostpw function broke going into production, and I have yet to run down the cause01:56
NCommanderRainCT, Config.py hack applied01:58
NCommandervorian, I just set you reviewer in the system01:59
NCommanderRainCT, can you please chown the logs folder so the revu1 user can read themn?01:59
NCommanderI just figured out why the password reseter doesn't work02:00
RainCTapache's error.log?02:00
NCommanderer wait02:00
NCommanderRainCT, yeah, and the /var/logs/apache2 folder02:00
RainCTit's /var/log, not /var/logs (as you've alread done twice the same typoe :P)02:01
NCommanderI don't have tab complete here02:01
RainCTand I've replied to your mail02:02
NCommanderI get why the pw resetter isn't working02:03
NCommandergpg: packages@schauenburg.nl: skipped: public key not found02:03
NCommanderTHe best laid plans ...02:03
ScottKGood evening all02:06
NCommanderRainCT, please add group readibility/writability to /srv/revu-production/random-seed02:06
ScottKWhoever pinged me earlier today it's rolled off my scrollback, so please ping me again if it's still relevant.02:06
ScottKNCommander: Ever find your power cord?02:06
NCommanderScottK, sorry, I can't find the actual box02:07
NCommanderLike the actual HW is missing02:07
NCommanderNot just the cord02:07
NCommanderrainct went away02:07
NCommanderScottK, check out REVU; for everytime LP gets ugler, REVU gets prettier :-P02:08
RainCTNCommander: tables aligned02:08
ScottKFOSS is the future.  You'd think they'd know that.02:09
RainCTNCommander: I'll do the JS thing tomorrow - my brain doesn't work now :P02:09
NCommanderRainCT, I need permissions fixed02:09
RainCTNCommander: I've also decremented the margin on the sides02:09
NCommanderJust stick around for a few more minutes while I work out why the PW resetter doesn't work02:09
RainCTNCommander: revu1 can read random_seed02:10
NCommanderThe www-data user needs to own it02:11
NCommanderTHat's what the GPG error log is saying02:11
RainCTr or rw?02:11
RainCTok, done02:11
RainCTpubring.gpg too?02:11
NCommanderNo warnings02:12
NCommanderWhy the hell is this not working02:12
RainCTwhy is there a launchpad.gpg again? I thoguht I removed it02:12
RainCTanyway.. do you still need me?02:12
NCommanderI almost got it02:13
NCommanderRainCT, just another moment02:13
* NCommander inserts the pathetic begging for you to stay02:13
NCommanderRainCT, can you look at the substituion in merge.py on line 72?02:14
NCommanderThe right output coming out in key, but its not getting substituted in02:14
RainCT""" % s02:16
RainCTthat's my line 7202:16
NCommanderI changed it slightly in production for debugging02:16
NCommander(since I'm not having this issue on
RainCThow do you know the line there?02:16
NCommandernano Ctl-C :-P02:17
NCommanderits just a changed variable name02:17
NCommanderI thought for some reason it was doing something stupid with the variable name S02:17
NCommanderWait ...02:17
* NCommander forces the mime type to text02:18
* RainCT gets a giant glove to hit NCommander :P02:18
NCommanderAnd there it goes02:19
NCommandervorian, can you please try merging your accounts?02:19
vorianIncorrect e-mail address or password. Back.02:19
NCommanderAre you sure your using the right password?02:20
NCommanderREVU's are randomly generated02:20
NCommanderand there was never a change password function02:20
voriani understand that :)02:20
NCommanderCan you recover?02:20
vorianThere is no REVU account for vorian@ubuntu.com, yet.02:20
* NCommander falls backwards 02:20
* vorian hands NCommander a redbull02:20
RainCTit has already been merged02:21
NCommanderI take it you don't use REVU very often vorian?02:21
RainCTNCommander: vorian's account has already been merged..02:21
vorianI merged it when NCommander said i should about 30 minutes ago02:21
NCommanderRainCT, er no, I see a vorian@ubuntu.com in the uploaders list02:21
NCommanderoh wait02:21
NCommanderstupid cache02:21
vorianmy account seems fine now02:21
vorianah, pretty blue :)02:22
NCommanderI'm not the only one sick of brown ;-)02:22
RainCTnow, good night02:23
voriannn RainCT02:23
RainCTit's half past 3 in the morning here :P02:23
NCommanderthank you for your contribution to REVU RainCT02:23
ScottKBlue is good.02:23
NCommanderScottK, so I take it you approve of the new skin for REVU?02:23
* RainCT doesn't like it somehow02:23
RainCTit reminds me of sth..02:24
* ScottK hasn't looked yet... just likes blue better than brown.02:24
RainCTI'm not sure about what exactly, but something displeasing02:24
NCommanderRainCT, lack of sleep02:24
RainCTah, now I know. kubunu it was called02:24
* RainCT runs away02:25
* vorian shoots lasers at RainCT 02:25
* RainCT dies02:25
RainCT*** screen detached, good night :)02:25
tbielawahello everybody02:41
tbielawawhen building back for debian do you all do that with pbuilder or other methods?02:41
ScottKI do it with pbuilder.  Others have other ways.02:42
tbielawaalright, thanks02:42
tbielawaare there any ubuntu-main sponsors on?02:42
ScottKtbielawa: If it's not urgent, please just subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors02:47
tbielawaScottK: np.02:47
LaserJockI've got a question on the new REVU02:52
LaserJockwhat is the difference between Needs Work and Needs Review?02:52
NCommanderLaserJock, Needs Work are packages that have received a negative adovcation02:52
NCommanderNeeds Review are ones that haven't been looked at all02:52
jmarsdenNCommander: Where is the current API into LP documented?  The one you are using for the new REVU stuff?02:52
NCommanderjmarsden, the "API" I'm using is parsing RDF documents02:53
NCommanderAs for openid, its a published spec02:53
NCommanderjmarsden, that's why parsing revu-uploaders isn't an option02:53
NCommanderThe rdf file is a megabyte, and TBH, spooky probably won't be too happy running through it02:53
jmarsdenEwww.  That's all there is?  Yes, I know about OpenID.  With a team of paid prorgammers working on LP, I'd have expected it to come with some sort of documented API by now.02:54
wgrantjmarsden: It's almost there...02:54
ScottKjmarsden: Welcome to the large and growing club of people that expected more from Launchpad than they got.02:56
jmarsdenwgrant: OK, good.  But noone can see it, the API docs are not public, no-one can discuss it until it arrives, because LP is closed source... brrr.02:56
wgrantjmarsden: Erm, I said it's almost there.02:56
wgrantThey will be public once it's done.02:56
wgrantThough why not before I do not know.02:56
LaserJockNCommander: I don't see where a "negative advocation" (isn't that an oxymoron?) is indicated on the pages?02:57
LaserJockwgrant: why would they release docs for something they haven't built yet?02:58
wgrantLaserJock: So we can poke holes in it beforehand.02:58
jmarsdenLaserJock: So people can comment on the spec, suggest improvements, compare and contrast with other similar APIs, etc.02:58
wgrantThey must have a design somewhere.02:58
ScottKLaserJock: This sounds like the sort order that, IIRC, sistpoty set up.02:58
NCommanderLaserJock, anytime a review posts a comment and doesn't advocate02:59
wgrantLaserJock: A comment that isn't an advocation.02:59
ScottKLaserJock: Right, no chance that external review of the design would yield improvments.02:59
ScottKLaserJock: It is Launchpad after all and they understand this stuff so much better than we do.02:59
* LaserJock backs away at seeing all the red highlights in his IRC client ;-)03:00
crimsunperhaps you'd like red highlights in your e-mail inboxes via spam^W?03:00
* NCommander unfortantely marks jmarsden's bug invalid03:01
LaserJockso umm, why can't I vote/advocate?03:01
wgrantLaserJock: You need to merge your old account to get privileges.03:02
NCommanderLaserJock, you need to merge your old account to recover reviewer status03:02
jmarsdenNCommander: Sigh.  OK.03:02
LaserJockso does that mean anybody can comment?03:02
NCommanderI have the start of a script that will set review/admins automatically somepoint03:02
wgrantLaserJock: It has been that way for a while.03:02
NCommanderjmarsden, that being said, emails will be added when REVU decides to reject an upload03:03
LaserJockhmm, I'm not entirely sure what my old REVU account was, I've had a few of them03:03
NCommanderLaserJock, you can merge multiple accounts together03:04
NCommanderJust try email addresses and Recover Password03:04
LaserJockah, found it03:04
LaserJockNCommander: that was the problem03:04
LaserJockI couldn't remember which addresses I'd used03:04
nhandlerNCommander, You got the recover password feature working?03:04
NCommandernhandler, yeah03:05
NCommanderIt was a MIME bug; different apache setting between localhost and REVU03:05
NCommanderI just needed to force the recover screen to text/plain03:05
LaserJockwell, I'm not much of a fan of OpenID, but it is a bit more convenient03:06
NCommanderLaserJock, well, Launchpad has an AuthServer API which they were going to let us use for REVU203:06
NCommanderLaserJock, I know one of the LP's devels pretty well, maybe I can poke him to find out if they're still willing to play ball03:07
NCommander(that being said, LP admits their openid server needs some work)03:07
wgrantNCommander: They won't. They're implementing another external auth system.03:07
NCommanderoh fun03:07
NCommanderThey could just improve the one they have ...03:07
wgrantIt was meant to be out around January, but appears to have vanished.03:07
LaserJock*sigh* I guess with all this activity my hopes of turning REVU off are dashed ;-)03:07
NCommanderLaserJock, you wanted to turn REVU off?03:09
ScottKLaserJock: Given Launchpad's track record of supporting distro requirements, I think it was forlorn to start with.03:09
LaserJockNCommander: yes03:09
ScottKLaserJock wants us just to use Launchpad for everything.03:09
LaserJockI don't want us taking new packages03:09
NCommanderREVU needed quite a bit of TLC03:09
NCommanderLaserJock, huh?03:09
NCommanderLaserJock, you really think PPAs are a suitable alternative?03:09
LaserJockit's rediculous the amount of packages we pump into Ubuntu03:09
LaserJockNCommander: it's called Debian ...03:10
* wgrant agrees with LaserJock.03:10
* NCommander would agree with LaserJock if getting a package into Debian wasn't a massive headache03:10
wgrantWe have low enough QA at the moment.03:10
NCommanderIt's a constant fight I find.03:10
wgrantWe don't need several hundred packages without a maintaining.03:10
LaserJockover 1/3 of the packages MOTU have to maintain are from REVU, and we have to maintain them *entirely* as opposed to getting help from Debian03:10
ScottKLaserJock: What we need to do if find the crap ancient packages that have been abandoned and get rid of them.03:11
NCommanderand for the other 2/3s, you sometimes have to deal with rather stubborn DDs who would like to see us die. I can only get one to include glibc 2.8 fixes03:11
LaserJockScottK: most of those we don't maintain, no  burden on us03:11
NCommanderIs there an ubuntu equivelent of popcon?03:12
LaserJockuh, popcon03:12
LaserJockNCommander: if a package can't get into Debian I'm very suspicous about it going into Ubuntu03:13
LaserJockthe only cases are the few license differences03:13
NCommanderLaserJock, have you personally worked at finding a sponsor directly with Debian?03:13
LaserJockand Ubuntu-specific packages03:13
* wgrant screams.03:13
wgrantfujitsu@syklone:~/mdt/versions$ wc -l universe_not_sid03:13
wgrant857 universe_not_sid03:13
NCommanderIt's a pain in the ass.03:13
LaserJockNCommander: um yeah, I'm a Debian Maintainer03:13
NCommanderYou can update your packages03:13
NCommanderI'm not a D Anything03:13
LaserJockNCommander: I've gotten my packages into Debian *much* faster than in Ubuntu03:13
NCommanderLaserJock, my experience is quite the opposite03:14
LaserJockmy first package took 2 days to get into Debian03:14
NCommanderI do submit to Debian03:14
LaserJockas opposed to 2 weeks I think in Ubuntu03:14
NCommanderBut after it goes through on Ubuntu and then request sync03:14
LaserJockbut that was a couple years ago ;-)03:14
NCommanderLaserJock, still haven't found a sponsor for Code::Blocks03:14
NCommanderNo one wants to touch it03:14
LaserJockbecause it's kind of a pain03:14
LaserJockcode blocks has been attempted several times03:14
NCommanderThe big problem was Debian was vetoing wxWidgets 2.8 for YEARS03:15
jmarsdenNCommander: Re gpg info-finding from .changes files... can't you grab the Key ID and then do:   gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys <KEYID>03:15
LaserJockNCommander: so?03:15
NCommander(there was a rather large spat about it on d-devel)03:15
NCommanderNo, I'm just saying why it never actually got in despite previous attempts03:15
LaserJockjust because it's hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be done!03:15
wgrantNCommander: Yes, the wx stuff was stupid. But that's not why we have most of the packages.03:16
NCommanderjmarsden, the .changes file signature doesn't have the original figureprint03:16
NCommanderwgrant, no, I was just addressing why codeblocks was constantly rejected03:16
LaserJockthe maintainence burden from all these packages is really quite troublesome03:16
NCommanderI'm quite aware03:16
wgrantThe current situation is ridiculous and unmaintainable.03:16
NCommanderBut if we're the upstream packagers in Debian03:16
NCommanderI don't see the difference ...03:16
NCommanderIts the same group of people03:17
NCommanderJust spread across now two distributions03:17
NCommanderIs there something I'm not seeing?03:17
jmarsdenNCommander: I have one from _RainCT , I can get its Key ID by doing gpg --verify --fingerprint <changesfile>.  Then I can use the Key ID from that do to the command just poted and import his key.  Isn't that what we want REVU to be able to do?03:17
wgrantExcept that our development community is a tiny percentage of the size of Debian's...03:17
ScottKPart of the difference is that if you upload something to Debian you make a commitment to maintain it.  Fewer drive by's.03:17
wgrantScottK: Right.03:17
crimsunthen the answer is pretty straightforward.  We're not doing enough to push the appropriate changes upstream (not Debian).03:18
ScottKIt's ~100 versus ~100003:18
NCommanderI'll be damned03:18
NCommanderwgrant, ever get help from another DD resolving an issue?03:18
wgrantNCommander: Other than for sponsorship I haven't tried.03:18
NCommanderjmarsden, ok ... I was under the impression that you couldn't get the fingerprint from the changes file03:18
wgrantcrimsun: Hm? That's not relevant here...03:18
NCommanderwgrant, at times I've gotten a porter to help if it was arch specifc03:19
NCommanderBut I'm more used to people telling me that "It's my package, you fix it"03:19
NCommanderSo TBH, there is no difference in my book03:19
crimsunwgrant: packaging-specific shouldn't be that burdensome.03:19
NCommanderMaintainers in debian I find are on their own, or if the package is semi-popular, might see a little love from the QA group03:19
jmarsdenNCommander: Assuming you know a keyserver to grab the key from given its Key ID, which is this case we do, it seems doable.03:19
NCommanderjmarsden, the only problem with allowing people to upload free nilly is just ripe for abuse :-/03:20
wgrantcrimsun: We're talking about 900 packages which are in Ubuntu but not Debian...03:20
LaserJockNCommander: I've gotten a lot more help in maintaining packages in Debian than in Ubuntu03:20
jmarsdenNCommander: ?  You know *exactly* who they are, they signed the package with their GPG key... makes abuse awkward, I would think?03:20
NCommanderI'd like to note for the record that the Debian archive is roughly 8000 source packages, including arch all03:20
crimsunwgrant: 900 source?03:20
LaserJockcrimsun: yeah03:21
wgrantjmarsden: No restriction on who can upload, though.03:21
NCommanderjmarsden, I can generate 10 or 20 fake keys and spam REVU straight to hell03:21
ScottKOTOH, if I'd been told "Go see Debian to get stuff in" when I started, I probably wouldn't be here.  All those packages are in Debian now.03:21
NCommanderI came here because I got fed up with the Debian attitude03:21
wgrantcrimsun: It looks that way.03:21
wgrantScottK: You are the exception, not the rule.03:21
crimsunI would caution people to not close off Ubuntu as a vector.03:21
NCommanderand as a porter, especially a hurd one, I had a lot of trouble getting maintainers to accept fixes03:21
LaserJockScottK: we can do better than "Go see Debian", but we don't have to keep dumping packages in like crazy03:22
ScottKPeople always tell me that, and it's not always a good thing ....03:22
ScottKLaserJock: How many new packages have been uploaded this cycle?03:22
LaserJockhaven't a clue but since we were at 700 when I looked at gutsy03:22
* NCommander looks at REVU03:22
ScottKwgrant: Can you teach your script to find not in debian or hardy, but in intrepid?03:22
LaserJockat least 100/release I'm guessing03:22
wgrantScottK: I will try to do so now.03:23
ScottKwgrant: Thanks.03:23
ScottKLaserJock: For Hardy there were a lot.  I don't think so many for Intrepid.03:23
LaserJocksure, not yet03:23
LaserJockbut a few REVU Days and the FF push should do the trick03:23
NCommanderIf someone can tell me what the command to count rows in postgreSQL, I can tell you how many packages got uploaded to REVU since April03:24
ScottKFF push?03:24
LaserJockScottK: people rush before Feature Freeze to get everything in03:24
ScottKNCommander: This issue isn't how many to REVU, but how many in the archive?03:24
NCommanderScottK, people want to know how many were submitted03:24
NCommander714 distinct source packages have been uploaded to REVU since it was brought online03:25
LaserJockonline when?03:25
NCommandernot counting nuked uploads03:25
NCommanderLaserJock, 2005 I would guess03:25
ScottKNo, we started over when it went to sparky.03:25
wgrantThe DB has been cleaned since then.03:25
NCommanderwgrant, any idea when?03:26
LaserJockI was going to say, that seems awfully low03:26
wgrantCheck the date of the first upload, I guess?03:26
LaserJockwasn't that like 1.5 years ago?03:26
LaserJockhmm, maybe not, I can't really remember03:26
wgrantrevubase=# SELECT * FROM upload ORDER BY dateofupload ASC LIMIT 1;03:27
wgrant upid |        dateofupload        | sid | usid | isarchived03:27
wgrant    7 | 2007-08-18 13:20:05.993181 |   4 |    5 | f03:27
wgrantSo less than a year.03:27
NCommanderI've got 2007-08-1803:27
wgrantrevubase=# SELECT COUNT(*) FROM upload;03:27
wgrant count03:27
wgrant  290003:27
wgrantSo an average of somewhat over 4 uploads per sourcepackage. Not good.03:28
LaserJockwgrant: is there a way to see how many comments?03:29
LaserJockI wonder if making people maintain REVU packages would do anything03:30
crimsunif your aim is to move away from revu, then that's pretty silly.03:30
LaserJockI don't mind having packages in Ubuntu, not in Debian, quite so much if they're being maintained03:30
LaserJockmy aim is to not have a pile of junk in our archive, especially when it's expensive junk03:31
ScottKThat'd make sense.03:31
wgrantI wonder how easily I can work out the last time each was uploaded.03:31
wgrant(it looks there might only be around 50 NEW so far for Intrepid, but that sounds wrong)03:31
crimsunLaserJock: all of it is expensive; the only issue is where the initial effort is spent.03:32
ScottKwgrant: I suspect that's about right.03:32
crimsunanyhow, we've bitched enough about a lack of resources, so what I've been doing is going to middle- and high-schoolers, freshmen, etc.  If the aim is to have them work with Debian from the onset, then it would be nice to know now.03:34
* NCommander agrees with crimsun 03:34
wgrantWe don't need people to work on new packages!03:34
wgrantWe need people to maintain existing ones.03:35
crimsunwgrant: note the explicit lack of "new" in my statement.03:35
wgrantThis discussion is about putting new packages in Debian first. I don't think we made assertions about other types of changes.03:35
ScottKwgrant: You have to let volunteers focus where their intent lies.  There is nothing wrong with new packages.  The problem is unmaintained new packages.03:35
wgrantScottK: Which is most of them, I suspect.03:36
NCommanderso then you could restrict new packages to MOTUs only03:36
ScottKSo for new packages not from Debian, make it an individual maintainer.03:36
wgrantMaybe we should expire new packages after 12 months if they don't have any more uploads or don't meet a popcon requirement or something.03:36
* NCommander has always thought that should be the case03:36
crimsunor make part of the process of new Ubuntu source to get it into Debian within a reasonable timeframe of, say, 12 months.03:37
ScottKwgrant: I'd rather it be like Testing where you pitch them if they have RC bugs not addressed.03:37
wgrantScottK: RC bugs can be Importance: Low here.03:37
wgrantThere's no way to determine what is RC here.03:38
ScottKWe'd have to come up with our own standards.03:38
ScottKI'm suggesting a parallel concept, not a carbon copy.03:38
NCommanderMaybe we should have some sorta testing archive03:38
crimsunin what circumstances are RC bugs not also for Ubuntu?03:39
NCommanderCreate Grumpy Groundhog, and then have Intrepid be testing03:39
wgrantWe can't. That would take LP a decade to do.03:39
NCommanderwgrant, is that why we dont' currently have a specific testing distribution?03:39
wgrantcrimsun: With the way somebody defined Launchpad bug importances, a critical bug in a package could be Low.03:39
wgrantNCommander: No, that's because it's not how Ubuntu works.03:40
ScottKHow about something like if there is an SRU worthy bug that is unfixed through an entire development cycle, it gets remove at Beta.03:40
crimsunwgrant: but LP triaging aside, surely Debian RC status should imply we get it fixed ASAP in Ubuntu, too?03:41
wgrantScottK: So we look through 900 packages each cycle?03:41
wgrantcrimsun: These packages aren't in Debian.03:41
wgrantAnd note that a lot of our packages don't have users, so won't get bugs.03:41
ScottKwgrant: It'll be fewer, faster and we could get bugsquad to triage the list perhaps.03:41
crimsunwgrant: I'm talking of a larger problem that isn't restricted to those source packages.03:41
ScottKNo, users, no bugs, no maintenance, no problem.03:41
wgrantcrimsun: We have ajmitch's RC bugs page.03:42
wgrantScottK: But then when $USER comes along and tries to use it we look bad.03:42
NCommanderIf universe was disabled out of the box and had a rather big disclaimer ...03:42
ScottKThat used to be the case.03:42
wgrantThere is a really, really easy solution to this problem.03:42
wgrantSend people to Debian first!03:43
ScottKwgrant: Fortunately it's Debian that makes me promise to care about the user, not Ubuntu.03:43
wgrantIt would make it much easier.03:43
NCommanderwgrant, easy solutions are rarely the right ones03:43
wgrantIt will make Debian happier, us happier, users happier...03:43
crimsunthere seems to be a misleading "us" and "everybody else" mentality.03:43
NCommanderits more of moving the problem then solving us03:43
wgrantcrimsun: 'us' == Ubuntu devs?03:44
wgrantExcluding drive-by packagers.03:44
crimsunwgrant: "us" is anybody outside the sphere of influence03:44
LaserJockwgrant: I belive the current usage of Importance is /packages not /distro as it used to be03:45
LaserJockthat is /package03:45
LaserJockwhich should corredspond to Debian's usage03:45
wgrantLaserJock: That was proposed.03:47
wgrantLaserJock: I don't think it ever got approved.03:47
ScottKNot agreed.03:47
LaserJockwgrant: I believe bdmurray changed the wiki pages03:47
LaserJockperhaps not though03:47
wgrantNobody told the devs.03:47
wgrantI agree with that definition fully, but I don't think it was every officially changed.03:47
LaserJockwell, of course that *would* be consistent with the way things are done ;-)03:47
wgrantAnd it's a big change.03:47
crimsunfor the sake of expediency, are we concurring that mentoring new packages into Debian first is a good approach?03:48
* wgrant is03:48
LaserJockI think so03:48
ScottKcrimsun: No.03:48
ScottKI'd rather focus on if you get it into Ubuntu you're responsible for it.03:49
LaserJockI don't mind helping people get packages ready, but they really should be going into Debian unless there's a good reason not to03:49
crimsunScottK: I don't disagree with that, but wouldn't Debian also benefit?03:49
wgrantOK, we very strongly encourage people to go to Debian first, but if they want it to pollute Ubuntu first we engrave their name all over it.03:50
ScottKcrimsun: I agree we should encourage people to go to Debian too.03:50
* LaserJock notes that he hopes the new Ubuntu QA team would be able to offer some help regarding archive QA03:51
ScottKI like the 'we'll upload it here, but only if you promise to get it into Debian approach.03:51
wgrantrm -r /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/03:51
ScottKMost of the new packages I've done were done that way.03:52
crimsunScottK: s/promise to get/are actively getting/03:52
LaserJockwe could tie it to an ITP or a RFS03:53
crimsunthat's my thinking03:53
LaserJockthat's fairly easy to do03:53
NCommanderif we had a set team that would work with people to get the package into Debian (remove the need for finding a sponsor), it won't be hard to get packages to flow into Debian03:54
LaserJockbtw, I was totally wrong about the Bugs/Importance wiki page being updated03:54
ScottKLook at the number of open ITP bugs and ask yourself how much that really buys you?03:55
LaserJockNCommander: well, the REVU frontpage talks about utnubu03:55
wgrantLaserJock: I wonder what happened to that idea, then...03:55
* ScottK looks around for a DD in this conversation.03:55
wgrantWhat Utnubu?03:55
ScottKNope.  Don't see any.03:55
crimsunScottK: right, but as you suggested, it's one avenue.  Your proposal is quite valid.03:55
LaserJockwgrant: probably stalled03:55
crimsunI don't see them as mutually exclusive.03:55
whiteutnubu is dead :/03:57
whiteScottK: i am around03:58
wgrantwhite: That was unfortunately my point.03:58
LaserJockI see a big problem in the usage of the Maintainer Spec on REVU packages as well03:58
wgrantLaserJock: Right, and that is enforced now.03:58
LaserJockwe used to encourage people to put themselves as maintainer03:58
ScottKwgrant: No.  It's a warning.  It's not enforced.03:58
crimsunok, so utnubu needs to be resurrected?03:58
whitei personally think the problem is the difference in mentality, debian has constant maintainers and ubuntu has one-time contributors03:58
whiteone-time contributor can be a long-term contributor to ubuntu, but we are talking about specific packages03:59
ScottKHeya white.03:59
wgrantScottK: Are you sure? I thought it was upgraded to an error.03:59
ScottKwgrant: If I'm Maintainer in Debian I routinely ignore the maintainer spec on my packages.03:59
whiteso having a team taking care of getting the packages uploaded to debain does not solve the problem03:59
LaserJockScottK: I believe if it isn't an @ubuntu.com address it's an error03:59
wgrantCan we make reviewing take a couple of months and be generally foul and arduous to eliminate drivebys?04:00
ScottKLaserJock: I'm not using an ubuntu.com address.04:00
whitethe team will have to maintain the packages, people drop out of the team, team has too many packages to maintain, which leads to unmaintained packages04:00
LaserJockScottK: for Ubuntu uploads?04:00
crimsunwgrant: that's the line we're attempting to avoid, no?04:00
whitesame problem as with utnubu04:00
ScottKwgrant: So far we've been doing that pretty effectively for this cycle.04:00
ScottKLaserJock: Yes.04:00
wgrantScottK: Why would you alter things in Ubuntu if you're a DM?04:00
NCommanderScottK, I got patches for a package I maintain in debian (cvsps) in Ubuntu that I wrote, and I was removed from the maintainer from04:00
LaserJockScottK: hmm, odd04:00
LaserJockI know I kept getting errors when I was trying to do PPA uploads04:01
wgrantAnd security uploads for me.04:01
ScottKwgrant: In one case I recall we were past FF in Ubuntu so I uploaded a new revision with a patch.  In Debian I did a new upstream release and uploaded that.04:01
wgrantI'm fairly sure it's an error.04:01
whitewhat exactly is the problem with using the debian system of maintainers for new packages?04:02
wgrantwhite: Nothing apart from deliberate dpkg-buildpackage restrictions.04:02
whitewgrant: what restrictions?04:02
ScottKLooks like April was the last time I did it.04:02
whiteand then only sync packages from debian04:02
wgrantwhite: One cannot have 'ubuntu' in the version but a maintainer without 'ubuntu' in it.04:03
ScottKwgrant: Go try to build a package and see.04:03
ScottKIt's not an error.04:03
whitewgrant: that's a little weird, if you ask me04:03
ScottKIt was for a while, but they changed it to a warning.04:03
NCommanderScottK, I've had patches for my own packages in Debian rejected because I didn't change the maintaier04:03
NCommanderMaybe we should bring up the Maintainer policy at the next MOTU meeting04:03
LaserJockwhite: it's our implementation of Debian's voting ;-)04:03
whitewell, i personally feel that a lot of extra ubuntu patches should not be added immediately04:03
ScottKNCommander: That's what the rules require.  I just sometimes ignore them.04:04
LaserJockNCommander: yes, we know how well those meetings go ;-)04:04
ScottKChanging the way the MaintainerSpec works will have to go to the Tech Board.04:04
whitefor example, sending a patch about a .desktop file to the debian BTS and then maybe waiting a few weeks woll turn out to be more beneficial, than implementing one straight away in ubuntu, then later on finding out that it differs from debian and needs to be merged all the times04:05
whitethat just cases a lot of workload04:05
NCommanderScottK, isn't it an MOTU issue? The core team always changed it to Core Team simply because they are supporting it via canonical04:05
wgrantScottK: The TB didn't mandate it for all packages.04:05
LaserJockNCommander: that's not it at all04:05
ScottKNCommander: No.04:05
LaserJockNCommander: for one the Core Team is not all supported via Canonical04:05
wgrantIt's only an issue with packages from Debian, but somebody took a shortcut when implementing it technically.04:05
ScottKNCommander: Read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField04:06
wgrantAha. It was made an error in February, and a warning again in May.04:07
NCommanderI have learned04:07
LaserJockminimizing divergence is really the thing we're shooting for04:07
LaserJockwhether that be ubuntu patches needing to go upstream04:07
LaserJockor getting packages not in Debian *in* Debian04:08
wgrantActually, it was made an error in July last year - the merge changelogs are just written badly.04:08
ScottKThis is probably a particularly bad time to be talking to Debian about all these new packages we have that they should take on.04:08
LaserJockwgrant: seemed like it was longer than that04:08
whiteLaserJock: what is the problem with  making it a requirement to get everything into debian sid first?04:08
wgrantLaserJock: Well, the changelogs could be even less reliable than I thought.04:08
LaserJockwhite: well, generally that people object to it04:09
wgrantScottK: Why? Throw them in sid tomorrow and they'll stay there until lenny+1.04:09
LaserJockwhite: learning how to do things in both Debian and Ubuntu at the same time is pretty overwhelming04:09
ScottKwgrant: True, but who'se going to be paying attention right now.04:09
whiteLaserJock: this sounds like, "it is a good idea, but i do not want to lose my right to upload"04:09
LaserJockwhite: a lot of people aren't running Debian, for instance04:09
whitethat is a problem i presume04:10
wgrantLots of people aren't running Intrepid.04:10
LaserJockvery true04:10
whitewell, if new people really need a package, then they need to adopt the mentality of being responsible and maintaining the package04:10
ScottKMost of the stuff I do works out just find done in chroots.04:10
whiteif a new package is really needed for the world, then debian will package it anyway, sooner or later04:11
wgrantScottK: Same here.04:11
ScottKwhite: +1 and we should encourage that.04:11
wgrantwhite: Correct.04:11
whitea lot of people also come up with new packages, which are let's say not that useful04:11
wgrantI should compile popcon stats for our packages.04:11
LaserJockI don't like popcon04:11
whiteand because it is the easiest way to contribute for them and they feel proud of having a package, i do understand that they want to get it in as easy/fast as possible04:12
LaserJockmostly because all my packages are very low on popcon ;-)04:12
wgrantOr perhaps check how many have never had non-workflow bugs.04:12
whitehowever, it needs to be made clear that this is not the best contribution, despite their efforts04:12
LaserJockwhite: that would work for probably a lot of people04:12
LaserJockbut we've always had some people who resist the "you've got to get it in Debian" proposals04:12
LaserJocksome people don't particularly like working with Debian (for whatever reason)04:13
LaserJocksome people think Ubuntu should take packages that Debian might reject04:13
whitewell that is kind of hard seing that ubuntu depends on debian04:13
ScottKRight.  The response to "But I don't want to be responsible" should be "Then why do you think we want to be"?04:13
LaserJockand some people think that Ubuntu should be a more independent from Debian04:13
wgrantLaserJock: Then those people aren't living in the real world.04:14
LaserJockso I guess a question is how do we have a reasonable proposal that people in general can get behind04:14
LaserJockI've advocated at times just shutting REVU off, but that's probably a bit drastic04:15
whiteget packages into debian first or get a responsible maintainer (whatever that means), who intends to bring it into debian (either alone or with someone from debian) in a reasonable time>04:15
ScottKwgrant: Now that all upgrades to the development release are from Upstart releases (vice sysv-init) it was seriously proposed that we should rewrite all Main init scripts to be upstart native.04:16
LaserJockmy guess is that we could use a combo of education (on how to get packages in Debian) and MOTUs pushing people towards Debian more04:16
whiteif $package is not in debian after one release cycle drop it again04:16
wgrantThat should happen eventually.04:16
wgrantScottK: ^^04:16
LaserJockwhite: well, getting a responsible maintainer is the hard part, IMO04:17
LaserJockwhite: how would we figure that out?04:17
ScottKwgrant: When it provides some actual benifit porportional to the added maintenance burden.04:17
wgrantScottK: Or Debian moves off sysvinit.04:17
wgrantWhich it hopefully will eventually.04:17
whiteLaserJock: by checking the package, before it gets sponsored and other contributions the person made04:18
whiteLaserJock: and his willingness (via email) to maintain the packages and probably bringing it into debian04:18
LaserJockwhite: most people who contribute packages don't have previous contributions per se04:18
wgrantFix 100 bugs, get a ticket to upload a NEW package! THat would discourage people.04:19
whitewell, in many cases I would let them send it to debian-mentors@ and point them to debian04:19
ScottKI've also extracted promises to sign up as bug contact for the package.04:19
wgrantScottK: That should always happen. With no exceptions.04:19
LaserJockso would we just have people agree, via email or something, that they agree to either maintain the package in Debian or maintain the package in Ubuntu04:19
ScottKwgrant: Maybe LP could make it automatic.04:19
whitewell, i got to go do some studies, just highlight me, if you want my opinion and I'll try to read it later :)04:19
LaserJockScottK: : if we didn't have the DebianMaintainer issue it would be automatic, I think04:20
wgrantLaserJock: No. Maintainer and Changed-By have no significance in LP.04:20
LaserJockor hmm04:20
wgrantApart from Changed-By being on the end of the fake changelogs.04:20
LaserJockfor some reason I was thinking I was automatically sub'd to my packages04:20
LaserJockguess I must have done it myself ;-)04:21
LaserJockit seems to me that a "Maintain it in Debian or Ubuntu" ultimatum would be reasonable and broadly supported04:22
wgrantWhen does dinstall run these days?04:22
LaserJockthe only question is perhaps how to determine what "maintanence" means in Ubuntu since we don't formally have that04:22
wgrantBeing set as the maintainer, subscribing to the package, handling bugs, not being on the UEHS alerts for too long...04:23
LaserJockI suppose one could do a review at the end of one release04:24
LaserJockwhere somebody looks over the history of the package, etc.04:24
wgrantAround beta, I would suggest.04:24
LaserJockwell, I was thinking 6 months after it entered the archive04:25
LaserJockto try to stagger it a bit04:25
wgrantThat works.04:25
LaserJockso somebody doesn't have to do them all at once04:25
wgrantI don't think there'll be many left after the first round.04:26
LaserJockperhaps not04:27
LaserJockmaybe the first thing to do04:27
LaserJockwould be to enhance the UEHS metrics04:28
wgrantIt would normally do popcon, but Ubuntu popcon is too old.04:28
LaserJockand do a review of *existing* packages to see what portion are not being maintained04:28
LaserJockI see from UEHS that a majority of packages are outdated04:29
LaserJockat least of the ones that have watch files (I'm guessing that the ones without watch files aren't going to be better)04:29
wgrantfujitsu@syklone:~/mdt/versions$ wc -l uehs04:29
wgrant1239 uehs04:29
Hobbseepopcon is'tn on by default anyway04:29
wgrantHobbsee: It's still more useful than nothing.04:30
LaserJockhmm, this is a difficult problem04:30
LaserJockit seems like it'd mostly need to be done by a person04:31
LaserJockfor instance (and perhaps I shouldn't be sharing this ;-) )04:31
LaserJockI maintain plotdrop04:32
LaserJockbut there have been 3 uploads in more than 2 years04:32
LaserJockthere are no bugs in either Debian or Ubuntu04:32
LaserJockso how would one determine if I was maintaining it or not?04:33
wgrantI'm not sure.04:33
wgrantOne of my packages is doing rather well, another isn't so much, though people do use it.04:33
LaserJockone would most likely have to look at what else I'd been up to04:33
LaserJockto see that I care about my packages in general04:33
wgrantThat would have to come into it somewhere.04:34
crimsunyes, most recently touched for all your packages.04:34
LaserJockwhich definately creates a bootstrapping somewhere04:34
crimsunor least if you want that metric04:34
ScottKI think by the time this conversation is don't we'll need a Kalman filter.04:34
porthoseg'night all04:35
* wgrant has a good filter: "lambda: false"04:35
wgrantThat will fix our problems.04:35
=== asac_ is now known as asac
crimsunwgrant: is universe_not_sid posted cronned and public?04:46
LaserJockcrimsun: isn't that http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/universe.html04:47
crimsunLaserJock: looks like it, but I haven't been involved in some time.04:48
wgrantcrimsun: It's cronned but not public.04:49
wgrantBut other parts of that directory are, so I'll symlink it somewhere.04:49
wgranthttp://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/universe_not_sid is the plaintext.04:50
LaserJockhas DktrKranz talked to you guys about his transition tracker?05:09
LaserJockI'm particularly interested in what MOTU think of the design05:13
wgrantI think that lobbying LP people to implement the small required changes would be better.05:15
LaserJockhmm, do you think LP would really be able to work that way?05:15
crimsunI wonder if we could pay "LP people" to implement the changes.05:16
LaserJockI suppose minimally if people could unsubscribe from implicit subscriptions we'd be able to use LP as we would've normally05:16
LaserJockbut I think a transitino tracker could be *better* than what LP could do05:16
LaserJockwell, because LP is never going to explicitly create a transition tracker05:17
LaserJockat least I can't ever imagine them doing so05:18
Hobbseeand if it's done without launchpad, there's the likelyhood that a) it won't break, and b) that if it does, it'll actually be fixed in a timely manner.05:18
Hobbseeas in, not requiring to wait till the next release cycle, or something.05:19
LaserJockfor instance, the tracker DktrKranz wrote just uses a plain text file to set up a transition05:19
HobbseeOTOH, so far, accepting packages via the UI hasn't broken so far this cycle.05:20
Hobbsee(it has the last two)05:20
LaserJockalthough I suppose that could all be done in LP via scripting as well05:20
ScottKI say just use big LP bugs that spam lots of people until the LP developers implement unsubscribe from implicit subscriptions to avoid lynching.05:21
HobbseeScottK: you know that they won't do that in a timely manner.05:22
Hobbseei'ts not a use case that non-distro people use, so it won't get any priority at all.05:22
LaserJockwell, it's apparently not a trivial issue at all05:22
ScottKLaserJock: Anything they don't want to do is by definition non-trivial.05:22
Hobbseeplus, whenever you do things like that, it breaks accepting packages, which is kinda useful.05:23
LaserJockwell, that's not the reason I say it05:23
Hobbseeso, i will probably poke you with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™ if you do.05:23
ScottKLaserJock: By definition, if you've engineered (I use the term loosely) a system that requires 422 database queries to provide a single bug page, virtually anything is non-trivial.05:24
ScottKThat's a real number from the last bug page I opened: <!-- at least 422 queries issued in 2.39 seconds -->05:25
Hobbseeis it 422?  ouch.05:25
ScottKat least.  No promises it's not more.05:25
LaserJockwell, in any case, I'm not sure if transitions are a very good use-case for LP so my thinking was perhaps we could do a better job05:26
ScottKBTW, note that 2.39 seconds.  That's a very long time to make people wait (and that's just for the database).05:26
LaserJockletting LP handle what it's supposed to, bugs05:26
ScottKAny transition management discussion ought to be on ubuntu-devel in any case because it's not just a Universe thing.05:27
LaserJockfor sure05:27
LaserJockbut I was interested in what people thought of the design05:27
ScottKMentally multi-task bugs actually fit pretty well for me.05:28
ScottKI'm not sure when people would go somewhere else to check and see if there was something on the transition tracker related to a package they were working on.05:28
LaserJockwell, I was expecting that only people interested in the transition would be using it05:29
LaserJockand that it would be useful to see all transitions grouped somewhere05:29
ScottKBut wouldn't you also want people interested in the affected package to know about it?05:30
LaserJocknot necessarilly05:30
LaserJockI mean, they should get that info via the bugs, no?05:30
ScottKIf we're using bugs.05:30
LaserJockof course05:30
LaserJockbut the design was to use 1 bug/package rather than a large metabug with lots of tasks05:31
ScottKThat'll be really painful to file, won't it?05:31
LaserJockno, the tracker does it for you05:31
LaserJockyou commit a plain-text template file with the packages involved, any comments (on a per package basis)05:32
LaserJockadditionally, transition summary, transition description, and transition drivers05:32
LaserJockthat information is used to file the bugs and subscribe the drivers05:32
LaserJockthe perpackage/comments are added to the individual bug reports05:33
LaserJocks|/| |05:33
ScottKIt sounds like a lot of work to work around and LP bug, but it seems doable.05:34
LaserJockwell, my point is that it's not a workaround05:34
LaserJockbut a perhaps a better way to do transitions05:34
LaserJockwe can continue to do transitinos via LP05:35
ScottKI'm not seeing how it's better (assuming people could unsubscribe)?05:35
LaserJockwell, it's easier to set up a transition05:35
LaserJockand if we collect them it's easier to see all ongoing transitions05:35
ScottKLast time I set one up in LP it was one email to write.05:35
LaserJockI kind of liked the fine-grained control of bug reports05:36
LaserJockbut that's why I'm asking you guys05:37
LaserJockif you don't see any benefit then it's good to know now05:37
LaserJockI personally like the idea05:37
ScottKFor setup it seems like write one plain text file versus write one long email.  I see that as even.05:38
ScottKPeople would only get bugmail about their package of interest with your approach and not the rest of the transition (not sure if that's a bug or a feature)?05:39
LaserJockwell, I generally consider it a feature05:39
LaserJockbut I guess everybody might not05:40
LaserJockI think for any transitions that might take discussion about individual packages the current system is not very good05:40
LaserJockyou end up with a lot of jumbled up threading of comments on the metabug report05:41
LaserJockI'd like to be able to discuss individual packages05:41
ScottKI can see that.05:42
LaserJockdiscussion of the transition as a whole should probably be done via mailing list05:42
LaserJockso the task is to be able to have people working/discussing individual packages involved in the transition05:42
LaserJockwhilst making it easy for drivers to see overall what's going on05:43
LaserJockunless LP were to grow a per-task commenting feature I'm not sure it's possible to do that05:44
ScottKLaserJock: I apologize.  I've just hit a brick wall and need to go to bed.05:49
ScottKGood night.  We can continue this some more.05:49
LaserJockScottK: well, I'm pretty much toast too05:49
ScottKI'd encourage you to think some more on Launchpad deficiiencies that are driving you to make this external tool.05:49
LaserJockScottK: I'll have DktrKranz send some emails to get more discussion05:49
ScottKI suspect it's the right answer for now05:49
ScottKGet \sh to integrate it in leonov and you'd have something.05:50
tuxmaniacoops I miseed LaserJock06:50
=== Mez is now known as Mez|Moving
=== gaurdro_ is now known as gaurdro
jpds"Anything new?"10:45
lagaif someone from motu-sru has some spare time on their hands, please take a look at bug #241402. thanks :)10:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 241402 in mythbuntu/8.10 "Mythbuntu control center VNC setup freezes if & in password" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24140210:47
lagawhile it's fixed in intrepid, it still needs an SRU for 8.0410:48
foolanoany revu master can tell me about the fate of a package I'm trying to upload to revu?11:16
RainCTfoolano: name?11:16
foolanoRainCT: libapache-authcookie-perl11:16
RainCTfoolano: it was rejected11:17
foolanomay i know why?11:17
RainCTfoolano: have you logged in before you uploaded the package?11:19
foolanoRainCT: I uploaded it in first place without being logged in. It didnt work and I logged in to upload it again. But I did both things in a short period of time11:21
foolanomaybe i should have waited a bit longer?11:21
foolanonow i've been logged in for at least 20 min11:22
foolanoshould i try now?11:22
foolanooh and to add a bit more of entropy to the process i did the merge REVU accounts thing11:23
* RainCT notes that he just did a minor update to REVU and that you will notice two new items in the menu now (well, new as in that they weren't in the menu before)11:25
foolanoRainCT: I can see my upload if i click on "My packages" but it doesn't show up on the front page12:03
RainCTfoolano: it shows in "Updated packages", for some reason12:09
foolanoRainCT: right,  i guess that's cuz i uploaded several times12:10
RainCTfoolano: no, that's the reason - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libapache-authcookie-perl12:12
foolanoRainCT: the thing is it was removed from debian a few months ago because the package was unmaintained, after the debian sync in intrepid it was removed too12:14
RainCTyep, but REVU doesn't seem to know that. feel free to file a bug about it12:15
foolanoRainCT: done12:25
RainCTfoolano: thx12:38
RainCTfoolano: I moved the upload to new12:40
foolanoRainCT: thx :)12:49
pmjdebruijnI have a package, which is already packaged for Ubuntu (ufraw)13:08
pmjdebruijnhowever, it's compiled with plain cflags...13:08
pmjdebruijnand ufraw is one of those apps which can actually significantly benefits from SSE13:08
pmjdebruijnnow, I could just hack the packages CFLAGS and gecompile... but that would be nasty13:08
pmjdebruijnare there guidelines, on how to package a single source package build two binary packages each with different CFLAGS?13:09
pmjdebruijnfor example "ufraw" and "ufraw-sse" which provides plain "ufraw"13:09
azeempmjdebruijn: ufraw cannot do run-time detection of CPU features?13:12
pmjdebruijnI don't think so13:13
azeemthat's unfortunate13:14
pmjdebruijnso in the meanwhile I'd like to modify the source package to produce two binary packages13:15
geserdoes somebody know how to strip "-Wl," from LDFLAGS inside a Makefile?14:54
LucidFoxgeser> Strip?14:57
pmjdebruijnremove without touching other LDFLAGS?14:58
LucidFoxBy the way, does anyone want a package reviewed?14:58
geserLDFLAGS is set to "-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions" by dpkg-buildpackage, I could set LDFLAGS to "-Bsymbolic-functions" in the Makefile but I prefer to be flexible if the default changes and want only the "-Wl," removed14:59
gesersomething like ${LDFLAGS#-Wl,} but for a Makefile15:00
DktrKranzgeser, using if's maybe?15:00
LucidFoxLDFLAGS = $(shell echo $(LDFLAGS) | sed s/-Wl,//)15:01
geserLucidFox: thanks, will try that out15:01
geserLucidFox: doesn't work, the build still fails with ld: unrecognized option '-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions'15:07
LucidFoxYou should pass LDFLAGS="$(LDFLAGS)" as an environment variable to make15:08
LucidFoxLDFLAGS="$(LDFLAGS)" make15:08
geserdoesn't "export LDFLAGS" inside the Makefile do the same?15:09
IulianJazzva: Hey. I just got an email from upstream saying that development versions are odd numbered (0.7.x, 0.9.x, 1.1.x) and Stable versions are even numbered (0.8.x, 1.0.x, 1.2.x).15:26
geserLucidFox: no wonder it doesn't work as expected, the value got already added earlier to an other variable15:26
JazzvaIulian, right, then it's easy to make a regex :)15:26
JazzvaIulian, http://.../pkg-[0-9]*\.[0-9]*[02468]\..*15:28
JazzvaI suppose something like that should work15:28
IulianJazzva: So how do I use mangle option to exactly match upstream version?15:28
JazzvaIulian, that will allow any number as major ver, a number that ends in an even digit as minor ver, and anything after that as release ver15:29
IulianJazzva: Cool, thanks. Maybe some day I will understand the watch file better.15:30
JazzvaIulian, to make it more strict you can use http://.../pkg-[0-9]+\.[0-9]*[02468]\..+15:30
JazzvaIulian, that will require to have something as major and release ver, so it will skip pkg-.2. (which is illogical) :)15:31
JazzvaIulian, sure thing. It's not that hard...15:31
LucidFoxThis channel desperately needs a quote database.15:54
dereckwhy say you?15:54
=== dereck is now known as Awsoonn
lagaoops. if someone from motu-sru is listing, please remove the team from bug #224780 - i subscribed you guys to the wrong bug report ;) bug #241402 is the correct one.16:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224780 in mythbuntu-control-centre "Hardy - Myth Control Centre - optimize_mythdb.pl moved?" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22478016:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 241402 in mythbuntu/8.10 "Mythbuntu control center VNC setup freezes if & in password" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24140216:08
Awsoonnwhen a file in directory X is  updated, I want to run scrit foo; Is there a simple way to do this?16:14
pmjdebruijnaren't there watch scripts for that16:16
* pmjdebruijn is just ranting...16:16
tbielawaAwsoonn: there's a program that does that. I'm searching for it now16:27
tbielawadnotify - Execute a command when the contents of a directory change16:28
geserLucidFox: re bug 252318: ehcache depwaits on libhibernate3-java which depwaits on libjboss-cache1-java which depwaits on jbossas4 which is blocked by bug 18455717:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 252318 in ehcache "Please move to multiverse" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25231817:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 184557 in jbossas4 "Circular build-depends, needs initial bootstrapping on the buildds" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18455717:31
geserhave you an idea how to resolve this?17:32
* LucidFox headdesks17:32
LucidFoxactually, libjboss-cache1-java also depends on missing librarie17:32
LucidFox* libraries17:32
LucidFoxThis is a headache17:32
geserLucidFox: it would be a start to get jbossas4 build as it would allow several libjboss-* to get build17:33
geserI've tried to temporarily remove some build-dependencies to unbreak the cycle but didn't manage to get something that builds17:34
geserI still wonder how the DD managed to get the package build on his machine, certainly not in a pbuilder17:34
slytheringeser: LucidFox: Only way to get them built is bootstraping buildd17:35
geseryes :( which needs help from infinity17:37
LucidFoxOn the bright side, as it turned out, Execute Query requires only two Java libraries not in Ubuntu, rather than a billion gazillion17:38
LucidFoxanyone willing to take liquibase?17:38
tuxmaniacgeser: LucidFox have time to review a small package?17:39
LucidFoxtuxmaniac> sure17:39
slytheringeser: Or, probably build only part of the source so at least some of the packages get built17:40
LucidFoxOooh, new and improved REVU17:42
geserslytherin: if you figure out which part can be build to allow the other packages to get build to be able to undone the first changes (perhaps after some iterations) I'd sponsor them17:44
tuxmaniacLucidFox: even I was surprised. After a real long break I am back :-)17:44
slytheringeser: I will try. Last time I tried I was running in circles. :-(17:44
geserslytherin: me too :(17:44
slytherinI wonder how fedora guys built jboss17:45
=== AstralJa1a is now known as AstralJava
slytheringeser: Do you think the way jboss is packaged is wrong?17:49
geserslytherin: I don't know, I didn't look much into it.17:49
LucidFoxtuxmaniac> commented17:50
slytheringeser: LucidFox: Anyone of you free enough to review update to 'electric'?17:50
LucidFoxApparently, with the upgrade, I lost my MOTU capabilities on REVU17:50
tuxmaniacLucidFox: ok thanks. I will update the manpage17:51
tuxmaniacslytherin: oh its still hanging? I would be more than happy to get it up in the repos17:51
tuxmaniacslytherin: btw, the .deb is 10 Mb. I think its better to split the package if there are a few arch indep stuff17:51
slytherintuxmaniac: it is all arch indep17:52
slytherintuxmaniac: There aren't much java guys among MOTU members. :-D17:52
LucidFoxBy the way, could someone review one of my two packages on REVU?17:53
LucidFoxOne is a console utility, the other a KDE3 application - take your pick17:54
=== coppro_ is now known as coppro
ScottKLucidFox: I don't think we want new KDE3 apps for Intrepid18:05
LucidFoxScottK> Okay, that can be archived then18:09
LucidFoxCan't archive it myself at the moment :/18:10
ScottKLucidFox: I just sent mail to Kubuntu devel to ask.18:11
LucidFoxScottK> Yes, I did merge my REVU accounts18:14
LucidFoxwith both sikon@lucidfox.org (which had MOTU capabilities) and sikon@ubuntu.com18:14
ScottKOK.  Just checking.18:14
ScottKMy recommendation is kvetch at NCommander when he shows up.18:15
slytherinI am trying to solve FTBFS for libpdfbox-java. In the rules file there is a line which copied all the font files found in the build dependencies to a particular folder of the library. This causes FTBFS due to multiple packages containing same fonts. What is correct way to handle this?18:22
tuxmaniacLucidFox: I have added synopsis and author sections. the app does not have anything on options18:27
tuxmaniacso I leave it blank? I dont know what to put in. Its a very simpe but useful app18:28
LucidFoxtuxmaniac> Just mention that it has no options18:28
tuxmaniacLucidFox: ok18:28
tuxmaniacLucidFox: updated the package. Kindly check whenever free. thanks18:52
=== bmk789 is now known as Guest65844
=== DreamThi1f is now known as DreamThief
geserslytherin: what about adding -u or -f to the cp call?20:08
slytheringeser: will try20:10
=== bmk789_ is now known as bmk789
slytheringeser: Works, thanks for suggestion.20:30
=== Majost_ is now known as Majost
MajostI have the following two lines in a debian/links file:21:43
Majostusr/lib/libfmodex.so.4.16.07 usr/lib/libfmodex.so21:43
Majostusr/lib/libfmodexp.so.4.16.07 usr/lib/libfmodexp.so21:43
RainCTJazzva: for the case you are interested, there is a newer gnome-voice-control version (0.3) than that one in Ubuntu21:43
MajostThe problem is that when I try to use these, the deb gets nulled out...21:43
warp10Hi all!21:43
RainCThi warp1021:43
Majostand I am not exactly sure as to why21:43
warp10Heya RainCT21:44
JazzvaRainCT, yeah.... the developers said it depends on pocketsphinx, which we don't have atm. It's in REVU though :).21:44
JazzvaRainCT, thanks for the notice :)21:44
MajostI can probably just make the symlinks in the install section of my rules... but its still somewhat confusing21:45
RainCTah. /me goes to check the package on REVU :)21:45
JazzvaRainCT, in case you have time, you can review it (and sphinxbase, it's a build-depends of pocketsphinx). Though, it's a bit bigger package, I think21:46
JazzvaI left comments on both packages to make it easier for advocating. I'd be glad if some MOTU can review/advocate them :)21:47
JazzvaRainCT, thanks for checking :).21:48
RainCTJazzva: no problem. btw, the version in Hardy gives an error when I try to add it to the panel.. do you know what the problem could be?  (the error is the standard one that it doesn't work and if you want to remove it again)21:49
JazzvaRainCT, yes. I just need to prepare a backport for 0.221:50
JazzvaThough I wonder if it's worth it. If I wait a bit more, we can get pocketsphinx, then package 0.3 and backport it21:50
Jazzva(and get it in Debian to... or at least 0.2)21:50
ScottKDebian is frozen for Lenny, so no rush on getting new stuff to Debian right now.21:51
JazzvaScottK, ok. Thanks21:51
JazzvaRainCT, I'll prepare a backport now and see if we can get it in Hardy21:52
RainCTJazzva: backport or SRU?21:52
JazzvaSRU, I suppose... I think this patch can qualify for it...21:53
Jazzvais it ok to use 0.2-0ubuntu5.8.04 for SRU, if current ver in stable is 0.2-0ubuntu5?22:46
Adri2000not according to the policy as far as I know22:47
RainCTJazzva: yep, but if you add an additional .1 it will follow the security release model (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures#Prepare)22:47
RainCTAdri2000: doesn't the SRU policy say to use whatever you want as long as it doesn't cause problems?22:47
JazzvaAdri2000, RainCT, I missed the link to security policy. Thanks22:48
Jazzvayeah, I think I'll have to prepare SRU for Gutsy too. I'll go vith 8.04.1 and 7.10.122:50
Adri2000RainCT: I don't know. maybe/probably it changed since I looked at it. for me it should be .1 at the end, like -Xubuntu3.1 or -Xubuntu0.1 if there was no ubuntu change yet, etc.22:50
JazzvaAdri2000, I looked at it now. We can use .X.YZ.1 if we're preparing SRU's for more than one release22:51
Adri2000ok, that indeed makes sense if you are going to upload to multiple releases22:52
JazzvaActually, IIRC the one in Gutsy should be fine... the problem happened in Hardy first.22:54
RainCThttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates says «Make sure that the version number does not conflict with any later and future version in other Ubuntu releases (The security policy document has a well-working scheme which can be used for SRUs.)»22:58
RainCThola fixutu23:07
fixutuRainCT, you know if are there a ubuntu-motu channel on spanish?23:10
RainCTfixutu: as far as I know, there isn't one23:12
fixutuok, thanks23:12
RainCTfixutu: but I think there are "MOTU School" seasons in Spanish planned23:12
fixutui'll search about it, thanks a lot23:14
RainCTfixutu: you're welcome :)23:18
fixututhanks RainCT  i hope learn about a lot of about motu tasks23:24
SolarWarIf any guru packager has a minute, I'm looking for some comments on my revu package here:  (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=qlix)23:42
Sylphidi have xchat installed which requires  >= tcl8.4 as a dependency and i need tcl8.5 for homegrown scripts. how can I get xchat to not report as broken with tcl8.5 installed instead of tcl8.4?23:48
geserSylphid: aren't tcl8.4 and tcl8.5 co-installable?23:50
Sylphidgeser, they apear to be however tclsh reports the 8.4 version23:52
crimsunso you need to grow a local, modified tcltk-defaults23:52
geserSylphid: try tclsh8.5 if you need that version23:53
Sylphidlets see if that works23:53
RainCTis "LP xxx" (without the #) in debian/changelog recognized?23:53
Sylphidahh .... thanks geser looks like tclsh is a sym link23:54
Sylphidshould have caught that23:54
crimsunRainCT: no23:55
SolarWarRainCT, was that for my benefit? about the LP xxx?23:55
crimsunin fact, I often used "LP #foo" for references23:55
RainCTSolarWar: yep :)23:56
RainCTcrimsun: thanks23:56
JazzvaRainCT, shouldn't it be with ":": LP: #...?23:56
RainCTJazzva: yes, dunno if it recognized it too without the ":"23:57
* RainCT only knows that the parentheses are optional and that you can list more than one bug number separating them by ", " :P23:57
* Jazzva didn't know about ", "23:58
JazzvaCool :)23:58
geserRainCT: the regex for it is: /lp:\s+\#\d+(?:,\s*\#\d+)*/ig23:58
SolarWarRainCT, nhandler remarked on this yesterday in his comments, posted on revu23:58
SolarWaroh wait23:59
SolarWari see what you're saying23:59

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