[00:05] say i want to become a good open source developer. what would be the best way to get started? [00:14] tanath: Find an itch, scratch it. [00:14] RAOF: well, that addresses motive, but beyond that... [00:15] RAOF: and i did say _good_ developer... ;) [00:15] So, if the itch is "this program doesn't quite do what I want", the scratch would be writing a patch that conforms to the style and other guidelines of the existing code, and submitting it either to the mailinglist or bug tracker or both. [00:15] RAOF: what about learning good style, and common OS practices, etc... [00:16] where do you find guidelines, etc.? [00:16] Well, style varies from project to project. [00:16] ok, but there ought to be suggested standards somewhere, whether they're generally followed or not... [00:16] Read a bit of the project's code, check out the website, check out the HACKING/HACKERS file if they have one. [00:17] and if you're looking to start your own? [00:17] tanath: GNU have suggested coding standards; but the most important standard is 'looks like the rest of the code' :) [00:17] hehe [00:17] that would seem to be common sense... :P [00:18] a matter of maintainability [00:18] So, writing your own thing has 3 big things: some form of public version contol, a mailing list, and BIG SHINY LICENSE HEADERS ON ALL FILES. [00:19] The last one there is mainly to make it not eye-gougeingly painful for distributions to package your code. [00:19] when I start compix it kicks in but errors Checking for Xgl: not present. [00:19] Volkodav: Not an error. [00:19] /usr/bin/compiz.real (ezoom) - Error: InitObject failed [00:19] /usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: Couldn't activate plugin 'ezoom' [00:19] there are public services for some things... [00:20] If you were using ATI it would also say "Checking for nvidia: not present" [00:20] well I have no cube or wobbly windows though [00:20] I am on nvidia [00:20] RAOF: i understand launchpad enables users to have their own repos, for instance. there's also sourceforge.. [00:20] tanath: Yes. I'd suggest launchpad, which gives you bzr hosting, a bugtracker, mailinglists, translation services. [00:20] RAOF: dunno about mailing lists though [00:20] RAOF: ah [00:21] Launchpad really is pretty cool; better than any of the other hosting sites I've seen. [00:21] RAOF: i like what i see so far [00:22] i did some googling and didn't find any good places to start for someone with this question [00:22] The GNU project might have guidelines. [00:23] And it's often good to use the same style as the major library you're using. [00:23] So mono code would use the Mono project guidelines, a GTK+ app written in C would use the GTK style guidelines, etc. [00:24] what if i'd rather support a given standard and conform to that? [00:24] That's also fine. [00:24] are you familiar with anything other than GNU recommendations? [00:24] Consistant across your codebase is what you're after, but your codebase is your own :) [00:24] indeed [00:25] But really, the most important things are: public version control, some easy way of contacting you/the project, and clear licensing. [00:26] so what are some good starting points for learning about public version control, developing deb packages, etc.? [00:26] You probably don't need to worry about packaging; most projects don't. [00:26] That's what we're for :) [00:26] hrm? [00:27] but if you want to get into maintaining your own packages? [00:27] !packagingguide [00:27] The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports [00:29] you part of MOTU? [00:29] As for version control, I'd use bzr: http://bazaar-vcs.org [00:29] Yah. [00:29] love the name :P [00:29] thanks [00:29] wby bzr? [00:29] *why [00:30] (1) It's a distributed VCS, and that's really useful. [00:30] (2) It's really, really easy to use. [00:30] (3) Launchpad has excellent bzr hosting [00:30] (4) A couple of my friends work on it :) [00:31] how does a distributed VCS work? [00:33] The basic difference between a centralised and distributed VCS is that in the distributed VCS there isn't a technologically-mandated 'trunk'. [00:33] hm [00:33] Projects still have a 'trunk', but it's there by community consent, basically. [00:34] what about learning about various environmental aspects of linux development? like there's various things like dbus... [00:34] The bazaar-vcs page can probably explain this better. [00:35] will look into it [00:35] tanath: There's not really a unified "go-to" page for that; The gnome developer library might be good, and I think KDE has a similar thing. [00:35] yeah [00:36] what about mentoring. it's talked about on launchpad. how does that work? [00:36] is there a system of some sort? or is it just basically getting someone to help you along? [00:37] Launchpad has a button that a developer can press to say that they're available to help someone on a particular thing. [00:37] Mostly bugs. It's ad-hoc; there's no system there. [00:38] well, then i imagine the developer might have something specific in mind, whereas the person looking for a mentor may have something else in mind... [00:38] perhaps there ought to be a bit of a system [00:40] Perhaps, but I'm not sure how that would work. [00:40] Anyway, I'm off. Good luck! [00:40] thanks [01:01] when I turn compiz off I loose borders on all windows in xfce [01:01] what's the fix? [01:10] yay, kernel panic! [01:10] Thanks, bluez! [01:12] Volkodav: you need to rerun your window manager [01:12] ... and again. [01:12] .... and a third time... but this time, I did it at console. [01:13] The only really important thing I can read (everything else is off the top, and not scrollback'able): [01:14] EIP: [] hci_usb_tx_process+0x211/0x3a0 [hci_usb] SS:ESP 0068:f1337cd4 [01:14] Kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG [01:27] anyone else have a problem with Remote Desktop Viewer (vinagre) just closing the second it opens? [01:27] no bugs are reported for it, it could be just my machine [01:28] ptn107: I'll check just as soon as I finish installing Alpha 3 [01:29] I ran out of disk space on my VM :-P [01:29] o [01:29] i got it running on my spare laptop, i must say ive had no other problems with it [01:29] !bug [01:29] If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu - Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots [01:29] I've got almost 2TB on my home LAN, and it's all 95% full :( [01:32] * DanaG wishes backuppc worked better. [01:32] I'm not sure what's bottlenecking it... but it's not even getting 10 megabits throughput on the network. [01:32] Granted, it is writing to a USB 2.0 hard drive, so there's some CPU usage involved.... [01:32] but I'd expect at least, oh, 5 megabits throughput; isn't that reasonable? [01:45] damn bluez. [01:45] BLuetooth audio does not work for me. [01:49] yay, hci-usb kernel panics.l [01:56] Aah... it only panic if connected to a USB 2.0 port. === marko-_- is now known as Ubuntu === Ubuntu is now known as marko-_- [02:04] * DanaG goes around grumbling. [02:30] Hey all, I have one question, will there ever be an alternative for the now-defunct dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to configure graphics options through the CLI? === nickrud_ is now known as nickrud [02:31] hey guys, how is intrepid ibex? [02:31] because I've wasted way too much damn time trying to alter xorg.conf files manually [02:31] Belboz99: I don't think that there's any such tool planned. [02:31] fark [02:31] What options do you need to tweak? [02:31] I just need to set resolution [02:31] the display detection doesn't work most of the time through the GUI [02:32] Then, unless you've got a crazy xorg.conf, you don't need to edit it. [02:32] so, it ends up giving 2 options, 640x480 and 800x600 [02:32] Which means your driver is failing, yes. [02:32] where can i download intrepid ibex? [02:32] Care to post xorg.conf & Xorg.0.log? [02:32] RAOF: I'm using VBox [02:33] Belboz99: Isn't there a vbox X driver available? [02:33] but also, I've had problems before with other machines on 8.04, especially the big LCD TV [02:33] right, there is [02:33] And this driver isn't working? [02:33] I believe that's what it uses, but every time I change the xorg file it won't restart the GUI, and then when I restart the VM it complains that the Xorg file is broken [02:34] Oh yeah, here's one piece of advice: disable bulletproof-X; it causes more pain than it's worth, in my experience. [02:34] Well, that suggests that your xorg.conf is broken. Why don't you delete it? [02:34] RAOF: right, that driver is not working ATM [02:34] how' [02:34] .. how's the weather in intrepid this morning? [02:34] Oh yeah, here's one lovely thing to deal with: broken EDID. [02:34] DanaG: I don't think Bulletproof X is enabled at the moment; I haven't hit it recently. [02:35] Toshiba has that, and it even affects Windows. [02:35] I'm in bulletproof-X, and it tells me configuration test failed, Screen was left at default, and Graphics card was set to VBox [02:35] At least, some of their older laptops have that issue. [02:35] =þ [02:35] They identify 1024x768 as 976x768. [02:35] Or some stupid thing like that. [02:35] Belboz99: xorg.conf & Xorg.0.log are what I need to be able to give you sensible advice. [02:36] okay, give me a moment [02:39] MMm.... and the newer versions of the bluetooth utilities have an entirely NONFUNCTIONING audio service. [02:39] It doesn't even let you try to START the audio service. [02:39] http://rafb.net/p/rSIpnm64.html [02:39] odd... for once, it worked.... [02:39] despite the lack of audio service. [02:40] RAOF: that's with a few modifications, I couldn't change the resolution, even straight Out-of-the-box [02:40] Belboz99: And your Xorg.0.log? [02:40] That's where the real meat will be. [02:41] Mmmm, okay... [02:41] then it gave an oops... [02:41] and made PulseAudio and aplay devour a total of 100% of BOTH cpu cores. [02:42] http://rafb.net/p/F5QnDz59.html [02:42] sorry for the delay RAOF, I'm working between a really small VM window and a standard Ubuntu installation, with no paste between them for some reason [02:43] Belboz99: got internet? apt-get install pastebinit [02:43] Belboz99, using virtualbox? [02:44] Mmm, and now PulseAudio segfaulted. [02:44] right ctrl+f for full screen and right ctrl+l to minimize [02:44] Don't you just love the state of Bluetooth audio in Linux? [02:44] Brokenness all around, no matter how you slice it and dice it. [02:44] okay, pastebinit is installed [02:45] IdleOne: ctrl+f does make it go full screen, but the OS still only uses 1/4 the area of my display [02:45] strange [02:45] Belboz99: Now, pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log [02:46] well you got pastebinit now so should be easier for you [02:46] http://pastebin.com/f7573a9a [02:46] Argh, it also irritates me that I can't 'killall -9 quodlibet' [02:47] DBus error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: Mountpoint Already registered [02:47] oops, typo [02:47] Heh. Empty pastebin! [02:47] http://pastebin.com/f75735a9a [02:48] there ya be ;) [02:49] Right; so, it's not using the VBox driver. [02:50] right, it's using vesa [02:51] So, what happens if you move the xorg.conf out of the way? [02:51] Mmmm: underrun!!! (at least 74873.454 ms long) [02:51] 'sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf ~/xorg.conf.backup', or something. [02:51] RAOF: do you happen to know the exact name of the vbox driver? [02:51] I was thinking of specifying that in xorg.conf [02:52] I: sink-input.c: Created input [number that keeps counting up as sound skips repeatedly] on alsa_output.bluetooth with sample spec s16le 2ch 44100Hz and channel map front-left, front-right [02:53] It went all the way from somewhere around 20 or 50 all the way up to 231... and then stopped. [02:53] And hung with silence. [02:53] And when I move the stream to a different sink... pulseaudio segfaults. [02:56] RAOF: moving it out of the way just does the same as first boot, 800x600 :( [02:56] no vbox driver either I don't think [03:01] how the fack are you supposed to move a stream when it keeps popping up and going away repeatedly? [03:02] It's like whack-a-mole with 1/4 second timing. [03:02] Belboz99: Oh, that's going to be one problem; there _isn't_ a a vbox X driver, just a vmware one. [03:04] So, the problem is that vesa doesn't like what VBox is saying. [03:04] ah, IC [03:05] MMmm, and PulseAudio just segfaulted again. [03:05] Why is it not bringing up apport? [03:05] You could _possibly_ fix this by adding a 'Virtual 1024 768' line to your Screen section. [03:05] How DO you killall by name some thing that doesn't name itself? [03:06] quodlibet runs as "python" -- so it's dangerous to just killall that. [03:06] DanaG: By pid, of course. [03:06] That's a pain. [03:06] Is there at least a one-liner that'll automatically get the pid? [03:06] !language [03:06] Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly. [03:06] You could probably file a bug; quodlibet shouldn't be using /usr/bin/env python [03:06] "pain" is not bad. [03:07] Belboz99: Your problem seems to be that VESA doesn't like the monitor that VBox is pretending to be; it tries a less-strict mode, but before it does that it sets the virtual size to 800 600 [03:07] I left off "in the...". [03:07] Belboz99: Incidentally... file a bug :) [03:07] oh, I see, it was the 'f'. [03:07] A bit late on that one. =þ [03:08] Belboz99: Since the total resolution of all attached displays can't exceed the virtual size, you lose the 1024x768 mode. [03:15] ouch [03:50] grrargh, bluetooth. [04:30] hmm... latest firefox package segfaults on http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=102042 ... don't know if anonymous access is possible, you might need a (free) account to see it. Tried to start firefox with -safe-mode, did the same thing [04:31] though thunderbird works well today, so I'm happy :) [04:50] anyone know how to change the audio output for flash? it's coming out of my internal speaker all of a sudden [04:57] burner: use pavucontrol [04:57] and yes, the pc speaker issue is known and being addressed. [04:58] Ideally, it'd only be used if nothing else exists. [04:58] I actually can see some use cases for that -- it'd let servers make warning sounds, and such. [04:59] Without having to deal with real sound cards, that is. [05:00] except there's no sane initial (default) volume control or level. [05:00] that makes the pc speaker all but useluss [05:00] useless* [05:02] Aah. Well, a sane default volume would be minimum -- and then let people increase it if they want to use it. [05:02] You'd want to disable the module by default, anyway... but don't not-compile it, because some people might want to explicitly enable it. [05:02] s/disable/blacklist/ [05:04] "minimum"? what is that? [05:04] Zero. [05:04] Muted. [05:05] Whatever [05:05] . [05:05] and luke is not disabling or blacklisting the kernel driver. Instead, he'll ignore it in PulseAudio's hal parsing. [05:05] Aah. That makes sense -- then if people want it, they can explicitly load it. [05:26] aww yeah! pavucontrol is sweet. I knew it was a known issue about the internal speaker, thanks for the workaround crimsun === thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak [06:06] (EE) SAVAGE(0): DRI isn't enabled [06:06] (WW) SAVAGE(0): Direct rendering disabled [06:06] How do I enable DRI? [06:09] On savage? [06:09] That's a blast from the past. [06:13] Yeah. [06:13] It [06:13] It's an old Athlon XP laptop. [06:13] Chip is "TwisterK" [06:13] I don't expect 3D... but even 2D things like Firefox scrolling are being slow. [06:13] Even without compositing in Metacity. [06:13] Well, that's not DRI [06:13] Oh. [06:13] DRI is _exactly_ 3D. [06:14] As for 2D being slow... seems like it sucks to have a savage card. [06:15] Hmm, well, I wonder what I can even do with Savage in 3D. [06:15] Perhaps you could play with the XAA acceleration options; I doubt it's using EXA. [06:15] EXA just makes the screen become garbage. [06:16] I've tried several times over the past year or so (same laptop). [06:16] I'm surprised X even starts when you try. [06:16] I wouldn't have thought that there'd've been any EXA hookup in that driver. [06:19] man savage. [06:19] It does offer EXA. [06:20] Wow. [06:20] I stand corrected. [06:20] Oh yeah, does VIA Rhine ethernet just suck? I'm using backuppc on that laptop (Athlon XP 1.2GHz, with 768 megs of RAM, though 32 go to the video chip). [06:21] I'm getting pathetic throughput on it, for some reason. [06:21] Everything VIA has a nasty tendency to suck [06:21] I am using a USB hard drive, true enough... [06:21] but I'd expect to get at least 5 megabits, not just 200 kilobits or so. [06:21] How can I benchmark the NIC? [06:44] Oh yeah, is there a way to make HAL mount USB hard drives even before I log in? [06:47] Woah, I fixed DRI. [06:47] Having nvidia installed on a non-nvidia-containing system == bad. [06:49] Bummer... no NPOT support. [06:49] non-power-of-two. [06:52] Woah, aiglx works with it. [06:52] I can run the flux screensaver from it (ssh client is nvidia). [06:52] I'm getting 2 megabytes per second received by the nvidia box. [06:53] I wish NetworkManager had an option to start interfaces at boot. It's a pain to have to be logged in in order to get connectivity >_< [06:53] Note to self...... [06:54] don't run compiz over ssh. [06:54] =þ [06:54] It kills the local box. [06:54] er [06:54] kills the local X. [06:54] * DanaG is laughing at himself. [06:55] LSD|Ninja: That's been slated for 0.7 for a while; I dunno if it's in yet. [06:55] DanaG: Yeah, nvidia-glx breaks *. I believe fglrx does the same. [06:55] Oh, hmm. [06:56] I'm ssh'd from the savage box into the nvidia box now. [06:56] I can run metacity over ssh, and it works. [06:56] And has compositing, too. [06:56] You _may_ be able to run compiz. nVidia's GL stack should allow it. [06:56] I tried ssh from savage->nvidia box. [06:56] Running compiz spits out the NPOT issue. [06:57] Oh, right. [06:57] Running nvidia->savage kills X on the nvidia box. [06:57] Orly? [06:57] Cool. [06:58] I mean, running compiz that way does. [06:58] But some other OpenGL stuff works. [06:58] Like rss-glx "flux" screensaver. [06:59] Compiz is pretty good at exercising corner cases. [07:00] * DanaG is trying tremulous under savage->nv [07:00] Works slowly, crappily. [07:00] And it outputs audio on the nvidia box. [07:02] interesting... glxheads over ssh runs on the box I'm ssh'd into, not on the local. [07:13] How do you make "savage" stretch the LCD image? [07:25] !find asm/io.h [07:25] Package/file asm/io.h does not exist in intrepid [07:25] find io.h [07:25] er [07:25] !find io.h [07:25] File io.h found in abs-guide, abuse-frabs, anarchism, apache2-doc, aplus-fsf-doc (and 394 others) [07:28] nope... [07:31] Where do I find new themes for Ibex? [07:31] Same place you would anything else, it's just GNOME [07:32] Argh... I had to manually find the right path in /usr/src/linux-headers..... [07:32] I simply used the Nodoka packages I alien'd from the Fedora RPMs I was using on Hardy. Seem to work just fine. [07:32] I'm using the "nanolx" theme repo. [07:34] So I need to define a repo for a theme? [07:34] http://www.nanolx.org/ [07:35] http://www.nanolx.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=1 [07:35] LSD|Ninja: You're aware that nodoka is in Intrepid, right? [07:36] RAOF: It is? o_O [07:36] * RAOF liked the theme, so it is. It's in Lenny, too. [07:37] It really isn't much effort to maintain a gtk-engine or two :) [07:37] I'll keep that in mind when I get around to reinstalling Intrepid [07:37] My theme: [07:37] http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png [07:38] heh, I installed Nodoka to get away from the crappy orange :P [07:39] I got away from the crappy orange to a nice orange. [07:39] My screen is too dim to use anything darker. [07:40] s/to/for me to/ [07:41] Do an image search for 'nodoka' and you'll find who the name reminds me of. [08:03] I wonder which would be better for backuppc: [08:04] A. Athlon XP 1.2GHz, 768 (minus 32) MB RAM, via-rhine ethernet [08:04] oh, and SDRAM, at that. [08:04] B. Celeron 1.5GHz, 256MB DDR RAM, Intel e100 ethernet. [08:05] BOth would need a cardbus ethernet card. [08:07] DanaG: why would the Intel one need an ethernet card, onboard dead? [08:18] er [08:18] silly me [08:19] s/ethernet/USB 2.0/ [08:19] =þ [08:46] why is intrepid so slow compared to hardy? [09:40] does anybody know when nvidia-glx-96 is going to work again? [09:40] hyperair: maybe when Ubuntu get around to updating it to .07, maybe not [09:40] hyperair: Depends whether nVidia fixed it for the latest round of xorg breakage or not [09:41] Nouveau's grown some XVMC acceleration... :) [09:41] But not if you need nvidia-glx-96, I think. [09:42] wait.. there's a .07? [09:42] All I want is to get compiz running, will nouveau do that? [09:42] hyperair: for a while now, Ubuntu haven't updated to it yet [09:42] nope it won't [09:42] LSD|Ninja: does .07 work for the latest round of xorg breakage? [09:43] hyperair: I don't know, I've been waiting for it to hit the repos so I don't break stuff later [09:44] i see. [09:44] well i stupidly upgraded my hardy to intrepid and now i am compizless in ubuntu [09:44] so i'm sticking with my archlinux until intrepid gets compiz back working for me.... [09:44] or.... [09:45] i lose my patience with archlinux entirely [09:45] then i'll just install hardy again [09:46] LSD|Ninja: No, nouveau aint gonna give you compiz. Not for a while. [09:46] That's what I thought ;) [09:46] * hyperair wonders whether ati cards are safe to use yet [09:47] r300 wasn't too bad last I checked and is in Intrepid afaik, not sure about the newer ones though [09:47] fglrx is getting much better. [09:48] But, as always, don't grab the newest cards :) [09:48] hahah [09:48] i see [09:48] well [09:48] i'll grab an nvidia imo [09:48] or intel [09:48] My next laptop will likely have an HD3600-series. [09:48] RAOF: or the oldest either in this case :P [09:48] are there any intels that don't work with compiz? [09:49] hyperair: None that you can buy now. [09:49] goody [09:49] hyperair: My GMA950 did, I expecte X3100 should by now, the new one will probably have teething trouble but that'll work out eventually [09:49] LSD|Ninja: You need to go _old_ before you hit an ati card that won't do compiz now. [09:49] hmm [09:50] RAOF: I was being general, the older nVidia's need older drivers which is the problem here :P [09:50] Right. [09:50] At least when ATI drops support for a card there's a pretty much fully-featured open-source driver to catch you. [09:51] We need to keep 4 frikkin nvidia drivers in the archives. [09:52] RAOF, like mine [09:52] except the open source driver has a lot of problems with this card [09:53] RAOF: The only reason for that was the last card series ATi dropped support for predated them closing their drivers [09:53] What's a good filesystem for storing backups of multiple computers? [09:53] DanaG: EXT3? [09:54] Needs to be relatively fast, and not run out of inodes. [09:54] * RAOF still thinks EXT3 is likely to be the winner [09:55] What of XFS or JFS or reiser? [09:55] XFS isn't exactly the first filesystem I think of when I hear "backup". [09:56] Hmm. [09:56] Can't say I know anything about it, anyway. [09:56] all variants of reiser are pretty much dead (no pun intended, honest) now, JFS I don't know anything about it and XFS probably isn't what you want on a backup drive. ext3 is well proven and reliable so you're probably best to stick with that [09:56] ive never had troubles with xfs [09:56] but the code complexity is troublesome [09:57] Neither have I but I still wouldn't recommend it where integrity is of the utmost importance [09:57] i wish they'd hurry up with btrfs v_v [09:57] If you don't treat xfs with respect, you will lose stuff. It's just how it works. [09:57] Hmm, so how do I ensure that I'll have enough inodes on ext3? [09:58] By taking the default setup, I believe. [09:59] There'll be one XP MCE (really essentially pro) machine, one XP Home, one Vista Ultimate / Ubuntu combo. [09:59] I'm not aware of inode exhaustion being a serious problem with ext3; what's going to be special with your setup that you'd be hitting an inode limit? [09:59] So it'll need lots of inodes. [09:59] And the partition is currently... oh... [09:59] hmm... checking size. [09:59] DanaG: If it's mostly Windows machines then consider one of those Windows Home Server boxes, backing up Windows boxes is opne of the functions of the software [10:00] Partition is currently ~350 gigs; drive is a 700 (real) gig drive. [10:00] DanaG: And it'll have a lot of inodes; I think the only way you'll run out of inodes is if you want to create billions of zero-byte files. [10:00] I can just do "system state" backups on each box locally, and then do file backups of user profiles. [10:04] hmm, still can't decide what FS to use. [10:05]