[00:57] <kiko-fud> warren, ping?
[00:57] <beuno> kiko-fud, wasn't there going to be a LP release today?
[00:58] <kiko-fud> beuno, there will be. what is "today" to you? :-)
[00:58] <beuno> kiko-fud, heh, right. I'm in UTC -3, not far away from your TZ if you're back home already
[00:59] <kiko-fud> beuno, I'm in california, so I still have a lot of today left :)
[00:59] <beuno> right, cheating timezones  :p
[01:00] <kiko-fud> heh
[01:00] <beuno> kiko-fud, no down time, or it hasn't been announced?
[01:01] <kiko-fud> beuno, no downtime
[01:02] <beuno> yay
[01:02]  * beuno has 3 pending LP bugs to report
[01:04] <thumper> ;)
[01:09] <warren> kiko-fud: pong
[01:10] <kiko-fud> beuno, what bugs! we have no bugs!
[01:10] <kiko-fud> warren, I managed to figure out what the source of our confusion was on saturday
[01:10] <kiko-fud> warren, it is in fact true that what you can access via http: can be slightly out of date wrt bzr+ssh
[01:11] <kiko-fud> warren, the motivations for this are not entirely clear, but it derives from the fact that https:// is served off a mirror
[01:11] <warren> kiko-fud: yes, I discovered that if I go directly to ssh I get it instantly
[01:11] <kiko-fud> warren, now thumper tells me his team is rethinking this and there may be news and developments in this later this week
[01:11] <warren> ok
[01:11] <kiko-fud> warren, if I know more I'll ping you, and maybe thumper will too.
[01:11] <warren> thx
[01:11] <kiko-fud> sure thing
[01:12] <thumper> I didn't say we were rethinking it
[01:12] <thumper> I said I'd explain it more later :)
[01:17] <kiko-fud> thumper, you said that in new zealandish. I understood that you wanted to FIX this idiosyncrasy!! :)
[01:18] <thumper> kiko-fud: :)
[01:20] <thumper> kiko-fud: there are reasons for this idiosyncrasy, but I don't have the time to explain right now
[01:20] <kiko-fud> I know
[01:20] <kiko-fud> thumper, just teasin' you. thanks for following up.
[01:23] <beuno> kiko-fud, when are you coming down to .ar?
[01:24] <kiko-fud> beuno, well, debconf is around the corner, so maybe debconf. I like argentina a lot! the girls in particular. :)
[01:25] <beuno> kiko-fud, oh yes, they're our specialty!   I remember you said something about coming, just couldn't remember the "when" part
[01:25] <kiko-fud> I thought empanadas were the specialty
[01:25] <kiko-fud> girls a close second though
[01:26] <beuno> I'm sure it depends on who you ask  :)
[02:11] <awmcclain> Is there an easy way to see what dependencies a package has in my PPA?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> guys...would it be too much to ask to have a facility to say "this package doesn't exist anymore.  STOP FILING BUGS AGAINST IT"
[02:48]  * Hobbsee sighs at people who file useless bugs.
[02:59] <ScottK> Hobbsee: File a bug?
[03:00] <wgrant> ScottK: Waiting 12 months might be faster.
[03:01] <Hobbsee> wgrant++
[03:01] <Hobbsee> although, bug people might action the bugs faster
[03:02] <spiv> Whereas filing a bug on IRC is nothing like filing a useless bug :P
[03:02] <Hobbsee> although i suspect their efforts are focussed on the new UI
[03:02] <ScottK> Likely to result in the same thing though.
[03:02] <wgrant> spiv: It often works better than filing a real bug which will just sit around...
[03:03] <Hobbsee> spiv: one thing i've noticed - if the bug gets filed by a LP developer, it'll get fixed quicker.
[03:03] <wgrant> Yep.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> thus, filing via irc, particularly if mpt's around, *can* be more effective.
[03:03] <ScottK> Because we know who the target audience for Launchpad is.
[03:03] <spiv> Correlation is not causation...
[03:03] <ScottK> Clearly distro developers are low priority.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> OTOH, filing a non-critical bug on launchpad, and the normal times it takes for responses on that, make it a reasonable risk.
[03:03] <wgrant> ScottK: Reputable people have said that that will change RSN.
[03:04] <spiv> (For example, maybe it gets fixed quicker because that developer was going to do that work anyway, and is using a bug to track the progress of that work)
[03:05] <wgrant> spiv: Empirical data suggests otherwise.
[03:05] <ScottK> That's one theory.  But it only works if the bug is assigned to the person that files it.
[03:05] <spiv> ScottK: it wasn't a theory, just an example.
[03:06] <ScottK> I just don't recall it ever happening.
[03:08] <spiv> More precisely: not a general theory, just a hypothetical example demonstrating my point (that observing that bugs filed by LP developers getting fixed sooner is not sufficient to deduce that who files the bug is causes bugs to be fixed sooner/later).
[03:08] <wgrant> It probably has something to do with the fact that LP devs can triage them upon filing. Although that's not always the case.
[03:08] <ScottK> Right, but your suggestion doesn't match with observed reality, so isn't particularly relevant.
[03:09] <spiv> ScottK: well, if you have statistics on causes rather than correlations, then we can discuss something other than hypotheticals :)
[03:10] <ScottK> I have sufficient experience to have a reasonably reliable qualitative perspective.
[03:10] <ScottK> If Launchpad had a reasonable API for external access, I might be able to provide some statistics.
[03:11] <spiv> Yeah, it is too hard to get numbers out for this sort of thing.  People like to look at nice graphs of bugs closed vs. time, etc.
[03:12] <ScottK> No, I'm saying Launchpad doesn't provide adequate access to its data to make it reasonably possible for me to answer such a question with statistics.
[03:12] <ScottK> But data going back out of Launchpad has never been a high priority in the project.
[03:13] <spiv> I'm not quite sure where you think I'm disagreeing, I just said it's too hard to get the numbers out.
[03:14] <ScottK> OK.  It's got nothing to do with wanting graphs instead.  It's just Launchpad doesn't let go of data.
[03:14] <spiv> Right.  Graphs were an example.  I guess my "etc" was too terse.
[03:17] <ScottK> It's equally likely that I pretty well assume I'm disagreeing with a Launchpad developer and don't always notice so well on rare chance it's not happening.
[03:17] <spiv> Well, I'm a Bazaar developer these days.
[03:18] <ScottK> Fair enough.  I also have a hard time telling those two groups apart.
[03:18] <wgrant> I was glad to see you trying to bash sanity into those who advocate rebasing.
[03:18] <spiv> So we can disagree about what my job is if it'll make you feel better ;)
[03:19] <ScottK> No.  That's fine.  I do understand there's a difference, just unless it's pointed out I often fail to distinguish.
[03:19] <spiv> wgrant: thanks.  It was hard keeping it relatively short and unranty :)
[03:19] <spiv> ScottK: it doesn't help that my freenode whois still says "launchpad"...
[03:20] <wgrant> spiv: It doesn't, other than this channel...
[03:21] <ScottK> I did sort of assume base on the fact that this is the only freenode channel you're on.
[03:21] <ScottK> That and not reading your Launchpad profile very closely.
[03:21] <wgrant> Freenode should really warn you when it's hiding channels.
[03:21] <wgrant> As a whois can look very empty.
[03:22] <Hobbsee> wgrant: it doens't do it by default.
[03:22] <Hobbsee> wgrant: you have to set that mode, every single time you connect.
[03:23] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Right, but some people do it, and it confuses people. ScottK, for example.
[03:23] <Hobbsee> oh, sure.
[03:24] <Hobbsee> oh, you're suggesting to warn other people that they could be on more channels than what's showing?
[03:25] <spiv> wgrant: hmm, somehow I wasn't identified with nickserv...
[03:25] <wgrant> Yes.
[03:25] <wgrant> spiv: Ah, indeed.
[03:25] <ScottK> Yes.  That would have been much more convincing (of the wrong thing).
[03:26] <spiv> ScottK: :)
[03:26]  * spiv is a chameleon.
[04:49] <wgrant> New edge looks nice.
[04:49] <Jerub> hey ... I'm trying to figure out how to upload files so that they can be downloaded from my project
[04:50] <Hobbsee> it does?  i have to see this!
[04:50] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It looks nicer, but it's no easier to use.
[04:50] <Jerub> but I have no idea how to do this. the instructions seem to say that I should make a 'release'
[04:51] <Jerub> but I don't know how to do that.
[04:51] <Hobbsee> ooh, shiny.
[04:51] <Hobbsee> i like the top bit
[04:51] <Hobbsee> ScottK: probably, but all improvements are good
[04:51] <mwhudson> Jerub: a release is attached to a series
[04:52] <Jerub> mwhudson: okay, so I'm looking at one of my series.
[04:52] <ScottK> Hobbsee: My favorite way to use the current U/I is with CSS off, so I'm unlikely to make much use of the new shinyness.
[04:52] <Jerub> and I don't know how to attach a release to it, what's the procedure/
[04:52] <Hobbsee> oh, interesting
[04:52] <Hobbsee> they've actually done something about the massive subscriber list.
[04:52] <mwhudson> Jerub: 'register a release' in the action menu on the right
[04:53] <Hobbsee> i wonder if it's just teh bug i'm on
[04:53] <ScottK> I thought the action menu went away?
[04:53] <ScottK> No, they did something.
[04:53] <Hobbsee> ScottK: presumably not for bzr stuff
[04:53] <Jerub> ah, I see it now
[04:54] <mwhudson> Jerub: this stuff is all rather confusing
[04:54] <Jerub> I was wondering what the 'action menu' was in the documentation
[04:54] <Jerub> it's not labelled as one.
[04:54] <ScottK> Jerub: I recommend filing bugs about unhelpful U/I.
[04:54] <mwhudson> and, as Hobbsee is saying, hasn't changed all that much
[04:54] <ScottK> Shoot, if they can have an action menu, why can't I?
[04:55] <wgrant> ScottK: It's still on some pages.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> ScottK: because that's confusing to start with, and they want to give people a vague clue about how it's supposed to work.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> whereas bug are more obvious
[04:56] <ScottK> Ah, so a deliberately confusing U/I is OK then?
[04:56] <jml> yes, that's exactly what Hobbsee was trying to say
[04:56] <jml> well spotted
[04:56] <Hobbsee> jml: was i?
[04:56] <jml> Hobbsee: :)
[04:56] <ScottK> I think it's not an unreasonable conclusion to draw from the recent changes.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> jml: i don't think i was *quite* saying that...
[04:56] <jml> Hobbsee: neither do I.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> jml: however, to clarify...
[04:57] <wgrant> That's an interesting solution to the massive subscriber list problem.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> in the case of bugs, most people can figure out how it works, even without an action panel.  ish.
[04:57] <ScottK> Even if it annoys them in the process.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:57] <jml> Hobbsee: sadly, misfired sarcasm is a constant peril on IRC.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> it won't make them confused enough to stop dealing with bugs on launchpad, though.
[04:58] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Dunno about that.
[04:58] <ScottK> I've been getting a lot less bugmail recently.
[04:58] <rockstar> ScottK, congratulations!  No more bugs!
[04:58] <Hobbsee> whereas, people will just give up, if they can't make anything out of what's supposed to happen at all.
[04:58] <wgrant> At least we'll supposedly be able to fix things ourselves in 12 months... not sure how much of that I believe, though.
[04:58] <ScottK> rockstar: The best way to have no more bugs is to stop testing and turn off the bug tracker.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> ScottK: well, the global majority of people.
[04:59] <rockstar> ScottK, sounds like a pretty good plan.
[04:59] <rockstar> :)
[04:59] <ScottK> So success is defined as a release that doesn't get very many people to quit using the prodcut.
[04:59] <ScottK> Interesting.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> no, no.  more people to sign up to launchpad, than to quit it.
[05:00] <ScottK> Right, so as long as not very many quit, it's a win.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> people will always quit, for whatever reason.  sometimes, it's unrelated to the infrastructure.
[05:00] <ScottK> Yes, but for some reason I'd have hoped the infrastructure wouldn't be encouraging them.
[05:01] <wgrant> ScottK: Launchpad's API is meant to be somewhat released to betatesters this week. So that might change things.
[05:01] <ScottK> Excellent.
[05:02]  * ScottK has high hopes for \sh and leonov.
[05:08] <RAOF> Also, the bugzilla and trac plugins sound exciting.
[05:08] <NCommander> Yeah, interesting piece of work
[05:09] <ScottK> Are these one way plugins or two way?
[05:10] <NCommander> ScottK, bidirectional it appears
[05:10] <ScottK> Ah.  A pleasant suprise.
[05:10] <wgrant> I can't see them getting much use, really. If people don't want to move to Launchpad, they probably don't want to use code from Launchpad devs for similar reasons.
[05:11] <wgrant> Although with the announcement of the Freeing in the near future, reasons for avoiding LP are dropping...
[05:11] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i can understand people not wanting to move their infrastructure and such.
[05:12] <ScottK> So far the ability to move has been pretty well all one way, so bi-directional is progress.
[05:12] <wgrant> It is.
[05:13]  * NCommander notes that its been possible for awhile to suck data out of Launchpad via rdf feeds
[05:14] <wgrant> That's not much data, though.
[05:15] <kiko-fud> fwiw, lead developers of trac and bugzilla developed the actual plugins, not us
[05:15] <wgrant> Oh.
[05:17] <NCommander> kiko-fud, I didn't realize there was such an API in place to allow that to be done
[05:18] <kiko-fud> NCommander, both have XMLRPC interfaces; we just extended them slightly to allow easy forwarding of bugs and comments, and efficient synchronizing of comments
[05:18] <kiko-fud> (though for trac it's a plugin that includes the XMLRPC API)
[05:18] <NCommander> kiko-fud, is there a XMLRPC interface for querying group memberships and such? REVU right now is parsing rdf files, but for really large groups, it really crawls :-/
[05:19] <kiko-fud> NCommander, there will be a REST API with a python wrapper
[05:19] <kiko-fud> NCommander, stay tuned for the release, flacoste and leonardr will be posting details
[05:19] <wgrant> I saw the announcement announcement earlier.
[05:19] <NCommander> sweet
[05:19] <kiko-fud> the call for API beta?
[05:19] <NCommander> REVU gets another upgrade
[05:20] <wgrant> kiko-fud: Right.
[05:20] <NCommander> kiko-fud, we're currently authing again OpenID, which isn't the prettiest solution ever
[05:20] <kiko-fud> NCommander, OpenID is as good as it gets!
[05:21] <NCommander> Launchpad's OPenID server breaks with noscript
[05:21] <wgrant> NCommander: I think it's your code that's breaking it...
[05:21] <NCommander> wgrant, all my code does is a meta redirect
[05:21] <wgrant> I didn't look at it closely, though.
[05:21]  * RAOF notes OpenID would be much cooler if anything actually accepted OpenID logins.  There must be more OpenID providers than consumers around.
[05:21] <NCommander> That CONTINUE button is Launchpad itself
[05:21] <NCommander> RAOF, pretty much
[05:21] <wgrant> NCommander: Oh, is it? /me tries.
[05:21] <NCommander> wgrant, yeah, try using another openid consumer, and you'll see its not us
[05:22] <NCommander> Launchpad explicately rejects the 302 login method, so it makes us do a meta redirect to that page
[05:25] <NCommander> wgrant, this is a generic openid test page: http://openidenabled.com/python-openid/trunk/examples/consumer/
[05:25] <NCommander> Try using https://login.launchpad.net on it
[05:25] <wgrant> NCommander: So I see. Interesting...
[05:26] <DBO> launchpad make DBO sad... he contribute muchly to his project... but his karma just go down...
[05:26] <DBO> where will DBO find motivation now?
[05:26] <NCommander> DBO, sounds like my Slashdot karma
[05:26] <DBO> DBO is lead developer for his project, but karma no worky... now DBO is too  ashamed to assume the first person role
[05:27] <Hobbsee> DBO gone crazy.
[05:27] <DBO> DBO loves his karma
[05:28] <Hobbsee> dbo is even identified.  maybe it isn't a false DBO.
[05:28]  * DBO smacks Hobbsee with her own pointy stick
[05:29]  * ScottK steps to the other corner of the room from DBO.
[05:29]  * NCommander drags Hobbsee before she can beat the **** out of DBO 
[05:29] <NCommander> ^away
[05:29]  * wgrant speaks in third person about himself.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> DBO: you can't steal that.  it's not possible.
[05:30]  * Hobbsee attacks DBO and NCommander with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™
[05:30]  * NCommander notes that wgrant is just insane, and should keep speaking with his multiple personalities
[05:30] <NCommander> Hobbsee, kinky
[05:30]  * NCommander is smacked
[05:30] <wgrant> NCommander: Good point.
[05:30]  * DBO always wanted to be impaled by something trademarked
[05:30]  * ScottK triangulates the furthest point from both DBO and NCommander.
[05:30]  * NCommander doesn't know how many more point based jokes he can take before he snaps
[05:30]  * wgrant knocks down a wall or to to get out.
[05:30] <DBO> nobody has fixeded DBO's karma
[05:31] <wgrant> DBO: The way to fix it is to get more...
[05:31] <DBO> DBO wants karma and will continue to throw a daily temper tantrum until someone tells DBO why he no can has karma
[05:31] <ScottK> Oddly enough I have the opposite problem.
[05:31] <NCommander> (ab)use bazaar
[05:31]  * NCommander has so much karma he's going to experience a roll around
[05:31] <wgrant> Registering and deleting lots of branches works.
[05:31] <wgrant> Although maybe deleting cancels it out.
[05:31] <ScottK> I try to limit my karma to make sure I don't spend to much time on this stuff and it just keeps going up.
[05:31] <wgrant> I don't have much branch karma.
[05:31] <NCommander> Some people have such bad karma they find they back into good karma
[05:31] <Hobbsee> DBO: answer questions.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> or file them.
[05:32] <wgrant> Blueprints are also expensive.
[05:32] <DBO> Hobbsee, my code commits dont count?
[05:32] <wgrant> DBO: Only branch registrations appear to.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> DBO: they probably do, but not sa much?
[05:32] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:32] <mwhudson> wip
[05:32] <DBO> because I think I have like 10,000+ original lines of code in the past couple weeks
[05:32] <NCommander> wgrant, my commits count
[05:33] <DBO> and DBO karma keep going down... DBO now want file bug report
[05:33] <wgrant> NCommander: https://edge.launchpad.net/~sonicmctails/+karma and mwhudson say otherwise.
[05:33] <wgrant> I'm inclined to trust both.
[05:33] <NCommander> Oh, I mean it doesn't show up in latest actions
[05:33] <NCommander> But my karma count just goes up
[05:34] <wgrant> Oh wow. You do have a lot of lp-bzr karma.
[05:34] <thumper> DBO: commit counts don't count yet
[05:34] <thumper> DBO: I have a branch in progress to give karma for commits if LP can work out who you are
[05:35] <thumper> DBO: but I keep getting dragged on to works that has to be done yesterday
[05:35] <NCommander> wgrant, the karma is strong in this one ;-)
[05:35] <DBO> thumper, would it matter if I told you I base my personal worth off my karma?
[05:35] <thumper> DBO: it would matter more to me if you sent $$$ for your karma
[05:36] <DBO> thumper, where do I drop the bag?
[05:36] <thumper> DBO: NZ
[05:36] <ajmitch> just drop it by my place, I'll pass it on to thumper
[05:36] <DBO> thumper, i'll send RAOF immediately
[05:36] <jml> Sydney is pretty far away from New Zealand
[05:37] <DBO> ajmitch, what kind of idiot do you think I am... clearly you are the shady kind of person who would take my money without giving me karma
[05:37] <ajmitch> DBO: there is that minor detail
[05:37] <rockstar> So would thumper
[05:37] <thumper> rockstar: oi
[05:37] <ScottK> ajmitch isn't shady.  He's bitter.  I should know.
[05:37] <thumper> pot, kettle, black
[05:38] <DBO> so everyone here had a good time because of my high-jinks
[05:38] <DBO> can I has karma?
[05:38] <DBO> =P
[05:38] <thumper> DBO: no
[05:38] <DBO> alright, thumper really did answer my question though
[05:38] <DBO> thank you =)
[05:39] <ScottK> thumper: You can give him 1000 of mine.
[05:39] <thumper> ScottK: we had considered a karma share process
[05:39] <thumper> ScottK: but we only have square tuits right now
[05:40] <rockstar> Except that karma doesn't really got you anything anyway.
[05:40] <ScottK> I bet there'd be a secondary market on Ebay.
[05:40] <rockstar> And Chinese people farming it
[05:40] <DBO> haha
[05:40] <ScottK> rockstar: For me it's more like, damn, it went up again.  I really need to find other stuff to spend time on.
[05:40] <jml> I saw some guy selling 3000 wow gold for 50 launchpad karma
[05:41] <ajmitch> jml: that's an interesting exchange rate :)
[05:41] <DBO> 50 launchpad karma == 30 chinese man hours?
[05:41] <rockstar> Yea, the WoW economy is down right now I guess
[05:41] <jml> ajmitch: it goes both ways
[05:41] <rockstar> It's because of the sub-prime WoW mortgages
[05:41] <RAOF> That seems a pretty good exchange rate.
[05:41] <jml> ajmitch: I'm hoping to patch bzr-loom enough to get an epic flying mount
[05:41] <ajmitch> rockstar: but we're still waiting on housing...
[05:42] <rockstar> ajmitch, I hear they have it in Second Life.
[05:42] <rockstar> Although LP has become my Only Life
[05:42] <RAOF> jml: 100 karma?  You'd be better off touching a couple of bugs :)
[05:42] <jml> RAOF: sure.
[05:43] <wgrant> Or registering a fifth of a branch.
[05:43] <jml> RAOF: actually my secret desire is for Canonical to do a deal with Blizzard so I can get BoJs in exchange for spec-branch links
[05:43] <ajmitch> join the LP beta testers team, get a wotlk beta invite?
[05:43]  * RAOF is unsure what a BoJ is, nor why jml would want one particularly.
[05:43]  * wgrant uses an anti-WoW device.
[05:44] <mwhudson> RAOF: i'm just glad there's an 'o' in there
[05:44] <thumper> hahaha
[05:44] <rockstar> Well shoot, the other kind might get more participation
[05:44] <jml> not if it's from a deal with Blizzard
[05:45] <rockstar> Sexual favors from Orcs?
[05:45]  * thumper smacks rockstar
[05:45]  * RAOF walks away.
[05:45] <NCommander> rockstar, stop playing World of Warcraft
[05:45] <NCommander> Or, alternatively, kick your D&D dungeon master for being a sick perv :-P
[05:46] <jml> RAOF: anyway, a BoJ is something you get from bosses in heroic instances -- you trade them for gear.
[05:46] <rockstar> NCommander, I've never played D&D and stopped playing WoW when I couldn't level up in an hour.
[05:46] <rockstar> :)
[05:46] <wgrant> Heroic instances... wtf.
[05:46] <NCommander> o_o;
[05:46] <NCommander> Uh
[05:46] <RAOF> Aaaah.  Badge of Justice.  Right.
[05:46] <NCommander> Either get a longer attention span or ...
[05:47] <RAOF> Play 4ed!
[05:47] <RAOF> All the homogeneity of WoW in a compact, tabletop format :)
[05:47]  * NCommander still plays 2 and 3 ed
[05:47] <NCommander> 4th ed really didn't do it for me
[05:48] <RAOF> It's super-fast to create a character, I'll give them that.  That's highly optimised.
[05:48] <NCommander> They did that by removing all the interesting characters
[05:48] <NCommander> I'm not saying its a bad thing
[05:49]  * RAOF is.
[05:49] <NCommander> But it feels like its really like down to two warrior classes and two mages that really aren't all that different from each other
[05:49] <RAOF> Hello, and welcome to #canonical-rpg
[05:49]  * NCommander rolls his d20
[05:50]  * jml writes a chargen
[05:50]  * NCommander wonders what, if any D&D references exist in Launchpad
[05:50]  * RAOF modifies joybot to join #launchpad
[05:50] <NCommander> / this code only works if our magic d20 rolls greater then 15
[05:51] <wgrant> NCommander: Some pages seem like that...
[05:51] <jml> NCommander: I don't think there are any, actually.
[05:51] <NCommander> jml, do grep "d20" -R *LP source*
[05:52] <jml> NCommander: I guess you could interpret our code review system as a Sense Motive check...
[05:52]  * NCommander laughs in real life
[05:52] <RAOF> jml: Then the review system should be updated for 4ed.  That's Insight now :)
[05:53] <NCommander> My last job, our code review was a Will check against the boss's rambling and stupidity, a Fortitude check  against keeping lunch down, and a Luck check to not be caught sleeping
[05:57] <NCommander> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/tblTimesheet.aspx - o.o;
[05:57] <NCommander> Oh god
[05:57] <NCommander> it burns
[05:59] <ScottK> Lovely.
[05:59] <Jerub> NCommander: I dealt with worse databases.
[05:59] <Jerub> oracle forms :(
[05:59] <Jerub> 30 fields numbered d1 -> d30
[05:59] <NCommander> Jerub, so Launchpad's code is really as bad as the rumors say?
[05:59]  * NCommander runs
[06:00] <Jerub> NCommander: it certainly is
[06:00] <NCommander> Ow, Oracle forms
[06:00] <Jerub> it's worse
[06:00] <NCommander> just
[06:00] <NCommander> ow
[06:00] <NCommander> Oracle in general is just ow
[06:00] <NCommander> It
[06:00] <NCommander> Damn it Jerub, why'd you remind me of the braindamage that is oracle forms
[06:01] <NCommander> Damn it, its more fun to program against raw Win32
[06:01] <NCommander> IN ASSEMBLY!
[06:03] <NCommander> I think I scared people
[06:04] <wgrant> NCommander: Win32 does that to people.
[06:05] <NCommander> I should never meant the fact that I have run dpkg under mingw
[06:05] <wgrant> No, you shouldn't. That is just wrong.
[06:06] <NCommander> I also have run Windows NT on PowerPC
[06:08] <ScottK> Now you're scaring people.
[06:08] <wgrant> I think that goes without saying.
[06:09]  * NCommander has an AIX powered server
[06:09] <mwhudson> when will ubuntu support alpha?
[06:10] <NCommander> and at an old job, I had to work with a PICK database system
[06:10] <NCommander> mwhudson, as soon as I get some alpha hardware
[06:10]  * NCommander already bootstrapped ubuntu armel, before someone told me Nokia beat me to the punch
[06:10] <mwhudson> (can you even still buy new alpha hardware?)
[06:11] <NCommander> (no, you can thank HP for that)
[07:44] <krow> Hi!
[07:45] <krow> We are having a lot of issues with the mailing list bit of launchpad, is there an open bug on this?
[07:45] <mwhudson> yes, i think so
[07:47] <mwhudson> hm, but it's private for some reason
[08:52] <soren> How long does it usually take these days of a vcs import to be kicked off?
[08:53] <spiv> soren: mwhudson is the guy to ask, but he just left
[08:53] <soren> Gah..
[10:17] <harshit4smiles> hi everyone
[10:17] <harshit4smiles> i wanted to know how much time does
[10:18] <harshit4smiles> ubuntu server edition cd
[10:18] <harshit4smiles> takes to reach to my home
[10:18] <harshit4smiles> i live in india
[10:18] <wgrant> This isn't really on topic for this channel, but ShipIt times vary greatly.
[10:18] <wgrant> I've received them often within 2 to 6 weeks.
[10:19] <harshit4smiles> ohk
[10:19] <harshit4smiles> thank u very much
[10:19] <wgrant> np
[10:50] <\sh> does anybody has a list of distributions mentioned on http://launchpad.net/distros/ which are completly managed by launchpad + launchpad buildd network etc. (distros != ubuntu)
[10:51] <wgrant> \sh: Ubuntu is the only one.
[10:51] <laga> mythbuntu ;) which is basically ubuntu
[10:52] <\sh> well, I wonder why we have "gentoo and debian" marked as read only, but suse linux not...
[10:53] <\sh> or opensuse ,-)
[10:53] <wgrant> \sh: As far as I can tell it's only there to confuse people. I've never seen a use for it.
[10:53] <wgrant> Same with the Domain column.
[10:54] <\sh> wgrant: yes...that what's really disturbing me too...I thought "ubuntu distro" is still a normal launchpad project with more features, but it's not in the list of lp hosted projects, but only available through distros....
[10:54] <wgrant> \sh: Distros are a separate concept from projects.
[10:55] <wgrant> I guess the read-only attribute will gain meaning when they start running gina over Debian.
[10:55] <\sh> wgrant: yes.but ubuntu is the only real project which is also a distro and is using all features of LP...despite the fact, that from url recognition system of my brain, there is no distinction between a project and a distro....
[10:56] <wgrant> \sh: Ubuntu is the only distro which uses package management features of LP, right.
[10:56] <wgrant> If you recall, until a couple of years ago projects and distros didn't share a namespace.
[10:56] <wgrant> It was /distros/ubuntu, /products/launchpad
[10:56] <\sh> wgrant: yes..but now they do..and this is something which bugged me yesterday...
[10:57] <wgrant> Then somebody thankfully had the idea of merging the namespaces, although they are still separate objects.
[10:57] <wgrant> So within the one namespace we have projects (aka. products), distributions and project groups (aka. projects).
[10:57] <\sh> wgrant: if you search on the projects page for ubuntu, you can see that ubuntu (which is not the distro) and Ubuntu are mentioned in a different view.
[10:58] <wgrant> That 'ubuntu' project just happens to be badly named.
[10:58] <\sh> s/in a different view/in the same view/ but are two different things (regarding launchpad hierarchy but not web frontend)
[10:58] <wgrant> kiko-zzz: Can you change the display name of rafael2008 to something more sane?
[10:58] <\sh> wgrant: for sure, but it's disturbing that "Ubuntu" (as distro) is mentioned in the output of the project search page ,-)
[10:59] <\sh> anyways...lunch first :)
[10:59] <\sh> bbl
[10:59] <wgrant> \sh: I don't quite see why projects and distros shouldn't appear together.
[11:30] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:36] <gnomefreak> morning mpt
[11:37] <bgrupe> hi, is there a possibility to delete a project from launchpad altogether?
[11:37] <gnomefreak> anyone know if ther eis a chance LP 2.0 can add a way to have/add a signature to the LP interface?
[11:37] <gnomefreak> s/ther eis/there is
[11:47] <wgrant> gnomefreak: A signature?
[11:48] <wgrant> bgrupe: Ask a question at the answers URL in the topic.
[11:48] <gnomefreak> ok
[11:52] <wgrant> gnomefreak: That wasn't the kind of response I'd expected...
[11:52] <bgrupe> oh yeah that page is full of delete requests :)
[11:55] <wgrant> mpt: Where did the option to subscribe my teams go?
[11:56] <mpt> wgrant, I have no idea. Subscribe your teams to what?
[11:56] <mpt> gnomefreak, what kind of signature?
[11:56] <wgrant> mpt: Bugs.
[11:57] <wgrant> The subscribe button used to let me do that.
[11:57] <wgrant> I think.
[11:57] <gnomefreak> mpt: Sincerely Yours, John Vivirito
[11:57] <wgrant> Please please no.
[11:57] <mpt> gnomefreak, no, that's the kind of thing we want to discourage
[11:57] <gnomefreak> something like that above is an example
[11:57] <wgrant> It's a bug.
[11:57] <mpt> gnomefreak, because it's non-useful noise.
[11:57] <gnomefreak> ok
[11:58] <mpt> We automatically collapse signatures that come in from e-mailed comments, too.
[11:58] <gnomefreak> you do for some reason i thought mine showed.
[11:58] <wgrant> Is yours a real signature?
[11:59] <gnomefreak> i see it has changed to remove sig.
[11:59] <gnomefreak> wgrant: not full one but part of it
[12:00] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/240093/comments/1 with sig
[12:00] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/240093/comments/4 without
[12:00] <andrea-bs> Hey mrevell! The new tour is really great!
[12:00] <gnomefreak> same bug report
[12:01] <gnomefreak> so i guess after june it was changed
[12:01] <mrevell> hey andrea-bs, thanks :) I can see many areas where I'd like to improve it. If you spot anything you think could be done better, please file a bug report in the usual place.
[12:01] <andrea-bs> mrevell: sure! :)
[12:03] <gnomefreak> mpt: thanks i marked question as solved
[12:13] <\sh> wgrant: re: projects + distros should show up together and should share one namespace and should have just one switch inside the db which tells the dbadmin, this project uses also our package building and package archive infrastructure, but the other projects not..and then we have projects which are read-only projects with a special distro status
[12:14] <wgrant> \sh: I guess that projects and distros have rather different data structure, so that's not really practical. But maybe not.
[12:16] <\sh> wgrant: the only diff I encountered was: http://launchpad.net/<distroname>/+allpackages -> gives an empty or full page of packages (as you can see with ubuntu or debian) and for projects there is no such +allpackages trigger
[12:16] <\sh> wgrant: the latter throws an exception whereas "special distro triggers" gives an empty page or a page full of packagenames (and links)
[12:17] <\sh> (forgetting the special soyuz links like builds, cd+archive mirrors) but the rest is still the same as for hosted projects
[12:19] <\sh> why i'm discussing it: right now it's only possible to query projects or distros only...but not one single common point...but LP thinks for project search differently...which makes my work more difficult ,-)
[12:23] <mpt> wgrant, I'm not aware of any change to team subscriptions in the past month. I suggest reporting a bug if you can't find something.
[12:26] <wgrant> mpt: No, it appears I was confused. That part of the UI has three states depending on who is subscribed.
[12:27] <mpt> ahasenack, the "Subscribe"/"Unsubscribe"/"Subscribe/Unsubscribe" link :-)
[12:27] <mpt> Yeah, I'm looking forward to that getting fixed
[12:27] <wgrant> ahasenack? BUt yes.
[12:27] <mpt> dangit why do I keep doing that
[12:27] <ahasenack> hmm?
[12:27] <ahasenack> mpt: again? :D
[12:27] <mpt> Sorry ahasenack
[12:27] <wgrant> Oh, I see.
[12:27] <mpt> I meant "ah,"
[12:28] <wgrant> You do that with so too.
[12:28] <ahasenack> haha :)
[12:28] <mpt> yes
[12:28] <ahasenack> no ohara, in the channel, lucky you
[12:28] <mpt> Someone confiscate my IRC license, please
[12:29] <wgrant> mpt: Is the bug page search dieing soon?
[12:31] <mpt> wgrant, you mean the little search box?
[12:32] <wgrant> mpt: Yes.
[12:33] <mpt> I'd like it gone, but nobody's in any particular hurry to get rid of it afaik
[12:33] <mpt> wgrant, is it misleading or annoying in some way?
[12:35] <wgrant> Well, the extra link at the bottom is strange, the duplicated 'Search' is strange, and it's the only piece of the page that hasn't been touched for years. And it could well be confused with the unlabeled search box up the top.
[12:36] <sistpoty|work> hi, I just tried to reset my pw and got the following error: "Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication."
[12:37] <sistpoty|work> which is from the page that lp mailed me to reset my pw
[12:37] <wgrant> Is your LP cookie still alive?
[12:37] <wgrant> I've found myself logged out twice in the past week for no good reason.
[12:38] <sistpoty|work> wgrant: I'm not logged in by default... whatever correlance to my cookie that might mean
[12:38] <DRebellion> Hi, I'm having some trouble with my PPA. I have deleted two packages from it, "posterazor" and "monkeystudio". However, when I try to upload either of these source packages, I get an email saying "Rejected: MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive. Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.".
[12:38] <DRebellion> What should I do?
[12:39] <sistpoty|work> wgrant: funny enough I seem to have been logged out after accessing the openid page from revu (and not having me logged in by lp then)
[12:39] <wgrant> DRebellion: You can't upload the same version again.
[12:40] <wgrant> DRebellion: Nor can you upload a different .orig.tar.gz with the same version.
[12:40] <DRebellion> wgrant, it's the same version with the same .orig
[12:40] <wgrant> DRebellion: You cannot upload the same version twice.
[12:40] <DRebellion> wgrant, ok.
[13:30] <wgrant> mpt: Shouldn't /distros be made less bad before it's linked from /?
[13:31] <wgrant> And, as \sh pointed out earlier, distros are searchable from /projects anyway.
[14:00] <mpt> wgrant, I don't think the Distributions page should be linked to from the front page at all.
[14:01] <mpt> At least, not until there are multiple distributions that use Launchpad for package management.
[14:02] <beuno> mpt, very nice work on the latest UI changes. Search on top looks great  :)
[14:02] <mpt> ha ha
[14:03] <persia> mpt: There are currently multiple distributions that use LP for bug management.  Is that not sufficient?
[14:03] <mpt> persia, I don't think so, because they're no different from projects in that sense
[14:04] <mpt> and they're already accessible from /projects
[14:04] <beuno> mpt, I'm not kidding!
[14:04] <mpt> beuno, why on earth not?
[14:05] <mpt> It makes "Log Out" look like the search button
[14:06] <persia> mpt: Well, compare https://launchpad.net/ardour/, https://launchpad.net/ardour/+source/usplash, https://launchpad.net/baltix/+source/usplash, https://launchpad.net/baltix/
[14:06] <beuno> mpt, because I can actually see search now.  I had an idea for the "Log Out" bit, making it a sort of tab, to separate it from the rest
[14:06] <persia> Note that the second URL is 404
[14:06] <beuno> but the "pre release code..." bar won't let that happen easily now
[14:07] <mpt> persia, I didn't know that Launchpad knew about what packages Baltix has.
[14:08] <persia> mpt: It doesn't precisely, but it tracks bugs against packages in baltix, as opposed to tracking them against the baltix project.
[14:09] <persia> One can add a bug task to baltix/package, whereas for projects, one can only add a bugtask to the project as a whole (as far as I can tell).
[14:10] <mpt> beuno, probably the search area on the front page should have the same background tint as the search area on every other page
[14:10] <mpt> that would make it more visible
[14:11] <mpt> persia, and do bugs ever get fixed (or reported) in Baltix before Ubuntu?
[14:11] <beuno> mpt, yes, probably. Either way, I'm happier now, even if it's "half-way there"
[14:11] <persia> mpt: Yes to both, although rarely in either.
[14:12] <persia> mpt: Well, reported happens in baltix first for many baltix bugs, to be honest, but the baltix developers usually open an Ubuntu task nearly immediately.
[14:12] <mpt> ok, that's useful then
[14:12] <persia> Also, giving distributions greater visibility would be helpful for other contexts.
[14:12] <mpt> I still have trouble imagining a use case for someone going to http://launchpad.net/distros, though
[14:13] <mpt> PR purposes, I guess
[14:13] <persia> PR purposes: shows what is listed.  Also, maybe one wants to work on a remix and might want to see if there is something similar already out there.
[14:14] <mpt> right
[14:15] <mpt> it would be nice to show a tree of which derives from which other
[14:15] <persia> That would be even more interesting, but tracking at that level gets somewhat awkward.  There's also the question of where to root the tree.
[14:17] <persia> Might also have some confusion between remixes and flavours, as many remixes could be flavours if anyone wanted to take the extra trouble to make them policy compliant, the extra six months to get them in the repos, and support them on the regular schedule.
[14:26] <mpt> wgrant, you're not seriously suggesting we grep the code for "Open", are you? :-)
[14:27] <mpt> If only that was a less common word
[14:33] <mpt> wgrant, thanks for all your bug reports today
[14:40] <mpt> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/1520880/2006-01-23-151558_985x604_scrot.png -- ah, the memories
[15:11] <Volans> Hi all, just a question on the bazaar.launchpad.net site, if I click on the "view changes to this file" link when I'm browsing a branch and viewing a specific file at a specific revision, I get an "Internal Server Error" "The server has either erred or is incapable of performing the requested operation.  Could not fetch changes"
[15:12] <beuno> Volans, it's been reported as a bug, and will be worked on soon. Thanks for reporting it.
[15:13] <beuno> Volans, bug #252866
[15:13] <Volans> oh great, I was just searching now if a bug was already filled
[15:13] <Volans> thank you beuno
[15:14] <beuno> Volans, :)
[15:17] <Volans> now I have to go... bye bye :)
[16:30] <rohan> in other words, can launchpad ppa packages be GPG signed?
[16:30] <rohan> i am trying to install kde 4.1 from ppa
[16:30] <Hobbsee> no
[16:30] <Hobbsee> well, there's an outstanding bug about it, but it doesn't really help you anyway
[16:30] <rohan> Hobbsee: ok, so i "Install these packages without verification"?
[16:30] <Hobbsee> yes
[16:30] <rohan> hehe ok thanks Hobbsee :)
[16:31] <Hobbsee> you're welcome :)
[16:31] <rohan> Hobbsee: someone in #ubuntu just told me they can be
[16:32] <rohan> it depends on the packager
[16:34] <laga> i'd love to know how that's done
[16:42] <NCommander> rohan, you can copy the Release file elsewhere and sign it, but to my knowledge, its not possible to sign the PPA directory
[16:42] <NCommander> ...
[16:42] <NCommander> directly
[16:42] <RainCT> Why can't a project's driver post announcements?
[16:43]  * NCommander has discovered that REVU is quite useful for updated packages if you upload the last released version first
[16:43] <NCommander> er
[16:43] <NCommander> wrong room
[16:49] <rohan> NCommander: oh ok thanks
[17:13] <Schwitzd> hi all!
[17:13] <Schwitzd> I have a question about karma
[17:14] <Schwitzd> this is my page
[17:14] <Schwitzd> https://launchpad.net/~schwitzd/+karma
[17:15] <andrea-bs> Schwitzd: what's the matter? :)
[17:15] <Schwitzd> from 2008-07-25 my karma don't increase
[17:16] <beuno> Schwitzd, have you looked at: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma
[17:16] <Schwitzd> yes
[17:17] <beuno> well, karma also decreases
[17:17] <beuno> so it may be increasing and decreasing
[17:17] <Schwitzd> i know
[17:17] <Schwitzd> but don't increase :D
[17:18] <Schwitzd> i have make a lot of answer but nothing
[17:19] <andrea-bs> Schwitzd: giving answers is different by answering questions (when a user click on "This solved my question"), so this may be the problem
[17:21] <Schwitzd> ah ok
[17:21] <beuno> also, de amount of karma you get decreases as more people use the app
[17:21] <beuno> so you may be getting less then before
[17:44]  * nycerine pokes the administrators for the launchpad beta testers team around a bit
[17:55] <Schwitzd> beuno, ok thx
[18:40] <Rinchen> mtaylor, fyi we've identified the problem and our man Francis is working on the fix.
[18:41] <mtaylor> Rinchen: great
[18:41] <mtaylor> Rinchen: the natives have been getting restless... :)
[18:42] <Rinchen> mtaylor, it's an interesting problem.  It appears to be that a specific set of events will  trigger a permission error in the synchronizing daemon between Launchpad and Mailman.
[18:43] <mtaylor> hm... I guess that's why it's only for some people and not others
[18:43] <Rinchen> mtaylor, yes....
[18:44] <Rinchen> mtaylor, Francis is working on the fix and when it's done I'll get it cherrypicked into production ahead of the next release
[18:44] <mtaylor> sweet
[18:44] <mtaylor> well, thank Francis for me
[18:44] <Rinchen> will do
[18:50] <vadi2> I'm a bit confused by the tour entry page. How come for "Your Project" it doesn't use a "neutral" but an already claimed logo?
[18:57] <Rinchen> mtaylor, looks like the fix is in PQM so we should have it fixed later today
[18:58] <mtaylor> woot. and double woot
[19:34] <alecwh> Is it possible to register non-free, closed-source software on Launchpad? And if so, would it cost anything?
[19:47] <Nafallo> alecwh: I think the answer is yes on both questions, but I don't know enough to give a more specific answer I'm afraid.
[19:47] <alecwh> Nafallo: okay, thanks. I'll ask later again.
[19:48] <beuno> alecwh, file a question: http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[19:48] <beuno> the appropriate person will catch that and get back to you
[19:48] <alecwh> beuno: okay, thanks.
[21:17] <mikes80> hey guys, is it okay for me to host a personal website on launchpad?
[21:17] <mikes80> For development that is. Not the site it's self!
[21:18] <kiko> mikes80, you should ask elliot@canonical.com -- he'll be able to answer that question.
[21:18] <kiko> you can CC: kiko@canonical.com if you like
[21:18] <alecwh> mikes80: I don't see what you mean... how could you host a personal website on Launchpad?
[21:18] <alecwh> Do you mean hosting the code for the website?
[21:19] <mikes80> kiko: Thanks, will do
[21:19] <mikes80> alecwh: yeah that's what I meant :)
[21:20] <alecwh> kiko: do you know when Launchpad plans to become Free Software?
[21:21] <kiko> alecwh, the man himself said 12 months, so 11 months and a few days is the deadline :)
[21:21] <alecwh> from now, or from the launch of Launchpad (I don't know when this was...)?
[21:23] <kiko> alecwh, from last tuesday.
[21:23] <kiko> it was announced at OSCON
[21:23] <alecwh> kiko: nice! thanks a lot.
[21:24] <kiko> you're welcome :) I'm happy to hear that too!
[21:26] <mtaylor> mikes80: well, you can certainly host personal dev work at launchpad, as long as it's open source
[21:28] <hyperair> hello there
[21:28] <hyperair> what does this mean? MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
[21:28] <hyperair> regarding uploading to ppa i mean
[21:28] <hyperair> i can't seem to be able to upload a certain package =\
[21:30] <kiko> hyperair, you've already uploaded a file with that filename that has different contents.
[21:30] <hyperair> well it got rejected the first time
[21:31] <hyperair> the first time i uploaded it, it was version 2.4.3blablabla, and it complained about that error as well as how 2.4.3 < 1:2.4.1
[21:31] <hyperair> so i corrected it to 1:2.4.3
[21:31] <hyperair> and then
[21:31] <kiko> beuno, how does one get a raw diff?
[21:31] <hyperair> it stopped complaining about a version
[21:31] <hyperair> i mean the version
[21:31] <hyperair> but continued complaining about the md5 being out
[21:31] <beuno> kiko, bzr diff branch -r X..Y
[21:31] <kiko> the issue is the filename. if it matches an existing file and the content is different, you're out of luck.
[21:31] <hyperair> i see.
[21:31] <kiko> beuno, sorry. from LH. :)
[21:32] <hyperair> so i just need to bump the version?
[21:32] <kiko> hyperair, yep.
[21:32] <beuno> kiko, ah, raw diff as in "usable for something else"?
[21:32] <kiko> beuno, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~loggerhead-team/loggerhead/trunk/revision/181 -- I want that in diff form but I can't find the UI to produce it. or if you have that, just give me a diff. :)
[21:33] <beuno> kiko, you can't, currently. There's a bug open for it.
[21:33] <beuno> I'll get you the diff by email  :)
[21:33] <kiko> beuno, a paste would be ideal
[21:33] <beuno> kiko, paste it is, one sec
[21:33] <kiko> beuno, cool thanks
[21:34] <hyperair> kiko: is there any way i can figure out where to get the orig.tar.gz of intrepid's pidgin_2.4.3.orig.tar.gz?
[21:34] <hyperair> kiko: mine comes from debian unstable
[21:34] <kiko> hyperair, if it's unchanged, you don't need to upload it -- ppas will fall back to using the versions in ubuntu
[21:34] <beuno> kiko, this is what you'll want to apply: http://paste.ubuntu.com/31865/
[21:35] <hyperair> if it keeps getting rejected i've got a feeling that that intrepid's has a different md5 checksum
[21:35] <hyperair> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
[21:35] <hyperair> from this message, i've concluded that it has to be the orig.tar.gz going wrong
[21:35] <hyperair> i didn't upload my own
[21:35] <kiko> hyperair, the file shouldn't be specified in the DSC, only in the changes file
[21:36] <hyperair> kiko: if i'm not wrong, the changes, dsc, and diff.gz is uploaded
[21:36] <hyperair> unless debuild -S -sa is done, then .orig.tar.gz is uploaded as well
[21:36] <hyperair> in this case, i'm pretty sure my diff.gz is fine
[21:36] <kiko> oh
[21:36] <hyperair> and my .dsc
[21:36] <hyperair> and my .changes
[21:37] <kiko> sorry I misunderstood your question and then gave a broken suggestion. :)
[21:37] <hyperair> which means that the only checksum that can go wrong is the .orig.tar.gz
[21:37] <hyperair> well.
[21:37] <hyperair> it brings me back to my question
[21:37] <kiko> hyperair, just apt-get source pidgin=2.4.3
[21:37] <hyperair> i'm on hardy
[21:37] <hyperair> =\
[21:37] <hyperair> not as simple as that
[21:37] <kiko> just add the intrepid source line
[21:37] <hyperair> oh
[21:37] <kiko> just deb-src
[21:37] <hyperair> =\
[21:37] <kiko> not deb
[21:37] <hyperair> right
[21:37] <kiko> cool!
[21:37] <hyperair> meh. now i gotta redo the damn patches alll over again
[21:37] <hyperair> T_T
[21:39] <hyperair> wait a sec. does intrepid even have a pidgin_2.4.3.orig.tar.gz?
[21:40] <kiko> hopefully
[21:40] <kiko> let's check
[21:40] <hyperair> oh it does
[21:40] <hyperair> your apt-get source method iddn't work =\
[21:40] <kiko> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/pidgin/
[21:40] <kiko> just download it from there. that's easier then. :)
[21:41] <hyperair> yeah
[21:41] <hyperair> that's what i'm doing
[21:41] <hyperair> this is so annoying
[21:41] <hyperair> who's the smart one who used a different orig.tar.gz from debian?
[21:41] <hyperair> annoying
[21:41]  * hyperair utters a string of expletives
[21:42] <kiko> hyperair, apt-cache showsrc pidgin would say :)
[21:42] <ScottK> hyperair: Usually that happens when the version was in Ubuntu first.
[21:43] <hyperair> oh is it?
[21:43] <hyperair> makes sense i suppose
[21:43] <hyperair> hmm this tar.gz has an interesting file size
[21:43] <ScottK> Often if the Debian Maintainer is slow for whatever reason it'll be in Ubuntu first and then later for some oddball reason (like downloaded from a different site or had to repack the tarball) it's got a differen MD5sum.
[21:43] <hyperair>  13,337,304
[21:44] <hyperair> if only there was one less 3 there
[21:44] <hyperair> then you'd get 1337
[21:44] <hyperair> well in pidgin's case, it's a bz2 and has to be repacked into gz
[21:44] <slayton> so i'm having a problem using dput to get my package uploaded to launchpad
[21:44] <ScottK> So you're guaranteed they'll be different if Ubuntu goes first.
[21:45] <ScottK> There are a couple of packages I pay close attention to that have to be repacked.
[21:45] <ScottK> I've developed a relationship with the relevant Debian maintainers so if I go first, I give them my tarball and they use it.
[21:45] <ScottK> That takes substantial effort.
[21:46] <ScottK> And it's my understanding that in the core Gnome areas the Ubuntu-Debian relationship is, um, not-very-good.
[21:47] <geser> slayton: it would help if you would describe your problem
[21:49] <slayton> http://atlke.pastebin.com/m24c1c024
[21:50] <geser> that's an interesting error
[21:50] <geser> and you should dput only the source package
[21:51] <geser> dput my-ubuntu-ppa libsomanetwork_1.0-1_source.changes
[21:53] <slayton> kl
[21:53] <slayton> k
[21:53] <slayton> i'll try that
[22:04] <jelmer> I saw a blog post about LP becoming GPL'ed in the next 12 months. Can anybody confirm that?
[22:06] <beuno> jelmer, it seems sabdfl said that in OSCON
[22:06] <beuno> kiko saw it  :)
[22:07] <kiko> yep
[22:07] <jelmer> kiko: That's really really great news!
[22:08] <kiko> surprise! :)
[22:08] <bluap> hi, may I ask a launchpad PPA question here?
[22:09] <kiko> yep
[22:09]  * beuno is surprised the announcement hasn't made much noise in the internets yet
[22:10] <jelmer> I'm surprised it's not on the launchpad news page...
[22:10] <bluap> Is it possible to get change log entries display in the update manager for PPA packages?
[22:11] <mrevell> hey beuno me old chap, are you available for a chat?
[22:11] <beuno> mrevell, sure, it's to late to hide now...  :p
[22:11] <mrevell> beuno: Heh :)
[22:14] <cprov> bluap: sorry, can you elaborate that ? we already show the "current" changelog entry for each PPA source publication (in the hidden area below each row)
[22:14] <beuno> cprov, I think he means from synaptic
[22:14] <cprov> beuno: oh, I see
[22:15] <beuno> I'm jsut guessing though  :)
[22:15] <bluap> I'm talking about when folks install the packages via update-manager.
[22:15] <bluap> Yes synaptic too
[22:16] <bluap> In update-manager, there are two tabs, changes and description.  The changes tab is always empty for my PPA packages.
[22:17] <cprov> TBH, I don't know where does it come from in ubuntu either
[22:17] <beuno> maybe it does something with packages.ubuntu.com behind the scenes
[22:18] <beuno> either way, I think it would requiere tweaking synaptic/update manager
[22:18] <beuno> but again, just guessing
[22:19] <bluap> I just assumed there was package build option I was missing.  Oh well, I'll keep hunting.  Thanks anyway.
[22:24] <wgrant> mpt: There aren't really going to be too many instances of appropriately capitalised 'Closed' in that part of the code, are there?
[22:29] <wgrant> cprov, beuno: update-manager gets it from changelogs.ubuntu.com. Synaptic might too.
[22:31] <bluap> wgrant: I guess that means you can't get change logs for PPA packages then.
[22:31] <cprov> wgrant: confirmed, and it doesn't contain the PPA packages. We should probably include this use case in the Soyuz-API
[22:31] <cprov> bluap: you are welcome to file a bug about this missing feature.
[22:32] <ScottK> I don't think unofficial repositories should be supported this way.
[22:32] <ScottK> I think providing this feature sounds at first glance like a security issue.
[22:32] <bluap> ok, if I file the bug, it can be discussed further at least
[22:34] <ScottK> Is there a history page available for pages like https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jazzva/firefox-extensions/firefox-sage.ubuntu/+merge/589 ?  I'm trying to figure out if ubuntu-dev should actually be subscribed or not (I got bugmail on this).
[22:34] <wgrant> cprov: They should really be somewhere in the archive.
[22:34] <wgrant> ScottK: It should be. I worked it out before.
[22:35] <wgrant> ScottK: We own the branch, so we get subscribed when somebody proposes a merge.
[22:35] <wgrant> This is a misfeature.
[22:35] <wgrant> There's no way to escape.
[22:35] <cprov> ScottK: I don't see how 'providing changelogs for PPA packages'  causes trouble to us.
[22:35] <wgrant> cprov: Encouraging the use of PPA packages, or something like that.
[22:35] <ScottK> cprov: I think blurring the line between official QA'ed packages and PPA packages that anyone can upload and are from an unsigned repository is potentially dangerous.
[22:36] <bluap> The fact that they are not signed is a pretty big separator IMHO
[22:36] <ScottK> wgrant: Why does ubuntu-dev have to own some firefox branch?  Why can't mozillateam (who should actually care) own it.
[22:36] <cprov> what if they are good packages or the users knows they are not that good but want them anyway
[22:37] <wgrant> ScottK: Because we need to be able to upload, we need to be able to write to the branch.
[22:37] <wgrant> ScottK: I think permissions need to be separated from primary authorship.
[22:37] <wgrant> Indeed I think the concepts are already split.
[22:37] <ScottK> cprov: That's the user's choice, but blurring the distinction between what is Ubuntu and what is not is risky.
[22:37] <cprov> I really think that providing good experience for people installing PPA packages is orthogonal to "encouraging installation"
[22:37] <cprov> ScottK: right, I agree with that
[22:37] <wgrant> cprov: Making them look like Ubuntu packages shouldn't be done until they're signed, at least.
[22:38] <wgrant> At the moment it is highly foolish to use a PPA.
[22:38] <wgrant> Particularly with recent events!
[22:38] <LarstiQ> ScottK: not being able to preview what you are getting is worse
[22:38] <cprov> ScottK: PPA changelog tab should say "This is not official" or something
[22:38] <ScottK> I think making it look more like Ubuntu and less like an unofficial package is not helpful.
[22:38] <ScottK> cprov: Does it say that now?
[22:38] <wgrant> cprov: Do you have a solution for archive signing yet?
[22:38] <bluap> It was "Unable to download changelog" of something similar
[22:39] <wgrant> It's probably too late now, though.
[22:39] <cprov> ScottK: no, but that's why I'm still working here, there are things to be done ;)
[22:39] <ScottK> cprov: Right.  Do that stuff first.
[22:39] <ScottK> Sequence is important.  Today there is no assurance that what you download is related to what was uploaded, so even a PPA from a know reliable source is suspect to some degree.
[22:40] <wgrant> Particularly as lots of ISPs are useless and don't patch their DNS servers...
[22:41] <wgrant> ppa.launchpad.net would be a really nice target.
[22:41] <NCommander> wgrant, no kidding, ISP security is a joke
[22:41] <cprov> ScottK: yes, that's the way things will probably be done, but it doesn't block bluap to file the bug.
[22:42] <ScottK> Sure I can't stop people from filing bugs and I can't stop you from implementing the changes.
[22:43] <cprov> ScottK: don't get me wrong, I appreciate your advice.
[22:44]  * wgrant disappears to uni.
[22:45] <cprov> only food can make me less grumpy this evening ...
[22:55] <bluap> I've filed bug #253119 on the PPA changelog issue and included your concern ScottK.  Thanks for the discussion.
[22:55] <ScottK> No problem.
[23:28] <Pilky> hey all, someone's just pointed out that we have duplicates of bugs in our milestone: https://launchpad.net/bazaarx/+milestone/0.1 Does anyone know what's causing this?
[23:29] <Pilky> Clicking on the bugs links to the same page with the same information