[00:04] <Riddell> ScottK: have you tried KDE 4.1?  do you think it's -backports material?
[00:07] <ScottK> Riddell: I have not.
[00:07] <ScottK> I will confess that with this new DNS cache poisoning attack I'm increasingly uncomfortable with use of unsigned repositories like PPAs.
[00:08] <ScottK> Riddell: If a few people try it and generally find it major regression free compared to the KDE4 Remix, then I'd say go for it.
[00:30] <seele> Riddell: thanks
[00:51] <jjesse> fresh install of intrepid and i'm liking what i'm seeing ;)
[00:59] <jjesse> is nixternal not here?
[02:06] <Jucato> Riddell or ryanakca: <flaccid> Jucato: rc mentioned on http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.1 . who can ammend? --> "To update to the release candidate of KDE 4.1, please follow these instructions"
[02:07] <ryanakca> Jucato: thanks, I guess it should be "To update to KDE 4.1, please..." ?
[02:07] <Jucato> yep
[02:08] <Jucato> or "to install KDE 4.1"... heh now I'm not sure which of the two :P
[02:09] <ryanakca> I went for update
[02:09] <Jucato> :)
[02:26] <nixternal> jeesh, who would have ever thought that importing folders and messages into kmail-kde4 would be such a pita
[02:31] <vorian> grrr
[02:31] <vorian> hi nixternal
[02:32] <nixternal> howdy
[02:32] <vorian> looking for a new computer eh?
[02:33] <nixternal> ya, mine keeps shuttin' down when it wants to
[02:33] <nixternal> kmail-kde4 importing action taking place
[02:33] <vorian> arg, no good
[02:33] <nixternal> 100,000 emails imported with a few million left to go!
[02:33] <vorian> haha
[02:33] <vorian> sheminie
[02:33] <nixternal> no doubt
[02:34] <nixternal> I have all of my original email from the 90s
[02:34] <vorian> how in the world did you manage that?
[02:34] <nixternal> Slackware, SuSE, Debian, VA Linux (whoa), Corel Linux, LFS, and even BSD stuff
[02:34] <nixternal> used Mutt forever on a server and never got rid of my old email
[02:35] <vorian> that is amazing
[02:36] <vorian> i have a few i've held on too for a few years
[02:36] <vorian> but
[02:36] <vorian> all!
[02:36] <nixternal> hehe, ya
[02:36] <vorian> kudo's
[02:36] <nixternal> even old shuttleworth posts on debian when nobody knew who he was
[02:36] <nixternal> same with that Riddell character on Debian and KDE :)
[02:36] <vorian> haha
[02:37] <nixternal> a ton of Matthew Garret Debian posts when I thought he was snooty
[02:38] <nixternal> I am willing to bet that Matthew Garrett has the lead of most emails in my folders
[02:38] <nixternal> yay, 9% complete with 700,000 emails imported
[02:38] <vorian> excellent
[02:38] <vorian> and very crazy
[02:39] <nixternal> kmail-kde4 is the hottness...well kontact-kde4 that is
[02:39] <nixternal> next is to import my contacts
[02:39] <vorian> i need to fix pim it seems
[02:39] <vorian> damn it, etc ...
[02:50] <nixternal> just noticed that the kmail icon in the system tray isn't meant for messages over 1,000,000 new...I can't even read the amount anymore
[02:50] <nixternal> it is so small
[02:50] <nixternal> and it keeps disappearing
[02:58] <nixternal> ummm, that wasn't 7 million...I have surpassed that and haven't even hit 50% yet
[02:58] <nixternal> wth
[03:01] <nixternal> 13 million and it says 31%..this is scary as hell
[03:02] <vorian> dude, that is crazy
[03:03] <Jucato> you have that much mail? O.o
[03:03]  * Jucato doesn't know how he'll survive that much...
[03:03] <nixternal> 14,000,000 and still 31%
[03:04] <Hobbsee> Jucato: just "lose" some.
[03:04] <nixternal> but it is showing that it is importing the last folder in the popup window
[03:04] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yeah. that's how I never use up more than 10% of Gmail's capacity...
[03:05] <nixternal> my gmail capacity is almost reached weekly with spam :P
[03:05] <Jucato> hahah
[03:05] <Jucato> I wished gmail would let you configure spam autodeletion time.. 30 days is just "Too Much" (TM)
[03:05] <nixternal> oh man, now it is hitting debian
[03:06] <nixternal> oh, that was scary, it was just a quicky import
[03:07] <vorian> how many in total?
[03:08] <nixternal> 34 million
[03:09]  * vorian faints
[07:46] <Nightrose> Riddell: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/249156
[07:47] <Nightrose> can you have a look please?
[07:47] <Jucato> thought that was  known upstream bug, but fixed in trunk... not 100% sure though
[08:11] <Arby> morning all
[08:14] <etretyak> morning Arby
[08:16] <Jucato> hello kde4 ninja :)
[08:16] <Jucato> kubuntu ninja I mean
[08:18] <Arby> :D
[08:18] <Arby> that came as a complete surprise
[09:10] <apachelogger> Nightrose: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=171000
[09:11] <apachelogger> if you get me a .11 tarball I will upate the package
[09:11] <apachelogger> until them scru'em
[09:11] <apachelogger> *then
[09:13] <Nightrose> apachelogger: sorry - other problems right now :/
[09:13] <apachelogger> +1
[09:19] <apachelogger> http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/strigi
[09:19] <apachelogger> ...one day...
[09:21] <apachelogger> http://www.vandenoever.info/software/strigi/
[09:21] <apachelogger> ok
[09:21] <apachelogger> ehm
[09:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: please sync strigi from debian
[09:22] <apachelogger> fixes bug 249156
[09:27] <apachelogger> uploading to kde4 ppa
[09:31] <Tonio_> hi there
[09:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: my sbscription to the kubuntu-council launchpad group just expired
[09:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: could you renew it please ?
[09:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: and fyi, I'll go with 2 contrib days tomorrow and on friday... you can expect a bunch of uploads then :)
[09:32] <Tonio_> I have a few things ready for upload (kdebluetooth and so on)
[10:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: synced
[10:15] <davmor2> Riddell: I don't seem to be able to log on to gmail talk using kopete
[10:15] <Riddell> Tonio_: added back
[10:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: thanks
[10:17] <apachelogger> !info libqca2-plugin-ossl
[10:17] <apachelogger> davmor2: ^
[10:17] <apachelogger> davmor2: are you on intrepid?
[10:18] <davmor2> yes sorry I didn't clarify that bit I'm using intrepid.  Running some general smoke test to try and get rid of some of the bugs before A4
[10:19]  * apachelogger didn't have time to write the MIR yet 
[10:19] <apachelogger> and I guess no one else did ;_)
[10:20] <davmor2> well as long as you know it's an issue :) I'll carry on testing :)
[10:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/32118/ languages which didn't make it into 4.1.0 - should I file a bug so we don't forget to remove them in time, or do you want to kick them out right away?
[10:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: shrug, they don't do any harm and removing them wouldn't actually change anything (the strings would still be in launchpad)
[10:23] <apachelogger> ok
[10:24] <Wubbbi> Hello :)
[10:24] <Riddell> do we need a main inclusion review for libqca2-plugin-ossl?
[10:25] <ubuntu__> hello (testing, testing, 123)
[10:25] <Hobbsee> test fail.
[10:25] <ubuntu__> well this seems to work okay :)
[10:25] <Wubbbi> smarter: are you away?
[10:25] <Hobbsee> hello davmor2 :)
[10:25] <ubuntu__> hello hobbsee :)
[10:26] <davmor2> Hobbsee: how do :)
[10:27] <Riddell> we have https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportQCA2 but I guess we need one for that plugin too
[10:27] <apachelogger> probably
[10:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: shouldn't we drop preparetips from kdelibs-bin.install or move the cdbs scripts for extracting message to that very same package?
[10:33] <apachelogger> right now one can't install kdesdk-scripts with kdelibs-bin nor can kdesdk, kdesdk-dbg and probably some other metapackages be installed
[10:34] <davmor2> is it me or is kmail really slow at imap folder setup?  It's syncing the mails quick enough just took forever to set up the folders.
[10:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: I did drop it from kdelibs-bin.install
[10:43] <Tonio_> re
[10:44] <Riddell> davmor2: doesn't that setup include downloading all the message headers?
[10:46] <davmor2> Riddell: the downloading of the headers were quick.  It was the folder creation that took forever.  It took about 2 minutes to create the folders and about a minute after to dl the header
[10:50] <davmor2> Riddell: as a comparison Evolution sets up the folders in about 30-40 seconds and the mail headers take about 1 minute or so.
[10:51] <davmor2> Riddell: and if memory serves on mobile it didn't take that long either.
[11:01]  * smarter waves
[11:02] <Wubbbi> smarter: hello :)
[11:03] <smarter> hi Wubbbi
[11:04] <Wubbbi> smarter: can you help me a little bit? I have created the "watch" file now, and I have written the get-orig source into "Rules" ( http://paste.ubuntu.com/32130/ is that ok ? ) What to do now?
[11:07] <smarter> Wubbbi: you need to change a bit the get-orig-source to remove the non-free files
[11:08] <smarter> also, have you tried to use it? bzcat ../sysinfo-$${version}.zip is not going to work, you must use unzip with a .zip
[11:09] <smarter> so unzip foo.zip && \ cd foo/icons && \ rm nvidia.png bla.png bar.png && \ cd ../.. && \ tar czf foo.orig.tar.gz foo && \ rm foo.zip
[11:10] <Wubbbi> so it sould call " unzip ../sysinfo-$$... " ?
[11:11] <Wubbbi> smarter: and how did the system know what Icons need to add ( after they are removed ) ?
[11:12] <smarter> you can create a directory debian/icons and put these icons here, the use a debian/install to install them
[11:12] <Wubbbi> ahhh ok
[11:12] <Wubbbi> thats sounds easy :)
[11:12] <smarter> but you've said that they already exist in the oxygen theme no?
[11:12] <Wubbbi> yes they do
[11:14] <smarter> Wubbbi: then, the Best Way   ® would be too patch the source to use system icons(which is oxygen for KDE4)
[11:14] <Wubbbi> how to do that?
[11:15] <smarter> no idea :p
[11:15] <Wubbbi> xD
[11:15] <smarter> but api.kde.org certainly knows
[11:16] <Wubbbi> ok ... let us go back to remove the non-free icons. There is one point I dont understand ... foo = the programm ( sysinfo ) ? and where I have to add this line?
[11:19] <smarter> Wubbbi: first, make the get-orig-source work, it has to unzip, then tar czf(== create a tar.gz) sysinfo
[11:19] <smarter> this is basic shell, nothing difficult
[11:20] <smarter> the goal is that when you do debian/rules get-orig-source in a terminal, a sysinfo_1.X.X.orig.tar.gz appears in the directory
[11:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: some plasmoids don't work anymore here
[11:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: the folder view for example.... works with the hardy kde4.1 packages...
[11:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: I investigated, but didn't found the issue
[11:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: is that known problem ?
[11:22] <Riddell> "don't work" "works"  I'm confused
[11:24] <supert0nes> is there any way for kubuntu phonon to support oss4 even tho hal doesnt and therefore the generic phonon doesnt?
[11:25] <Riddell> I don't know what oss4 is, but phonon isn't related to hal
[11:25] <supert0nes> i think phonon checks hal
[11:26] <supert0nes> for sound devices
[11:26] <supert0nes> oss open sound system
[11:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: folder view is seen as an "unknown applet"
[11:33] <supert0nes> ahh sorry to ask here this isnt the place, but freedesktop.org and phonon are very difficult places to get answers
[11:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: tried with a clean .kde, doesn't change anything
[11:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: seen as a correct applet with hardy and kde4.1 packages
[11:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: does this make sense ?
[11:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: do you have kdebase-plasma installed?
[11:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup
[11:36] <Riddell> works for me
[11:36] <Tonio_> hum weird.... I also have a couple of other issues....
[11:36] <Tonio_> very strange
[11:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://toniox.org/temp/capture89.png
[11:37] <Tonio_> that's what I have, all files are present (so and desktop) for the applet...
[11:37] <Tonio_> also with a  new profile/account the problem is still there.... very weird...
[11:38] <Tonio_> retesting with a new account...
[11:40] <Tonio_> ouch kde doesn't even start with a new account...
[11:40] <Tonio_> my all installation seems to be broken....
[11:40] <Tonio_> failsafe mode is broken too..... what the hell happens on my machine ??
[11:41] <Tonio_> apt-get remove --purge 'kde*'
[11:41] <Tonio_> and we'll see :)
[11:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: planning to get konqueror-plugin-searchbar into main ?
[11:42] <smarter> Are we going to package kdebluetooth4 as -kde4 or replace the kde3 version?
[11:42] <Riddell> Tonio_: I guess I could just promote that, it was previously in main
[11:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect so yes
[11:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: could you take a look at the patch on bug #39383 at some point?  it's pretty small and may be obsoleted by kdebluetooth4
[11:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: will look
[11:43] <smarter> (http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=84761&forumpage=0&PHPSESSID=635cf6e48ecd02666435465b724aa96b)
[11:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: the autostarter we did with allee does only start with kde, obviously....
[11:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can change that with the next upload
[11:44] <Riddell> Tonio_: (I'm not saying the patch is correct)
[11:45] <davmor2> Riddell: I just clicked on about kubuntu it dies.  The follow error is shown "the file or folder help:/kubuntu/about-kubuntu does not exist."  should it read help://?
[11:45] <Riddell> ah, docs
[11:45] <Riddell> they need rewritten for KDE 4 really
[11:46] <Riddell> nixternal: should we put a call out for someone to do KDE 4 docs?
[11:47] <davmor2> do you want a report making out as a reminder Riddell?
[11:47] <Riddell> davmor2: yeah
[11:47] <davmor2> np's
[11:50] <Jucato> gah! my bad sorry Riddell I forgot to put the link to Meetings wiki when I did the topic :/
[11:51] <Riddell> Jucato: what's that?
[11:52] <Jucato> Riddell: I forgot to link to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings in the topic :/
[11:53] <Riddell> Jucato: it's in this channel too
[11:53] <Xand3r> i have changed pbuilder-dist/etc/hardy/apt.conf , how i can get pbuilder-dist use it?
[11:53] <Jucato> Riddell: heh nvm :)
[11:55] <davmor2> Riddell: bug 253244
[11:55] <davmor2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-docs/+bug/253244
[11:58] <smarter> Xand3r: try running pbuilder-dist with --override-config
[11:58] <Xand3r> smarter: thx
[11:58] <smarter> Xand3r: if it doesn't work pbuilder-dist intrepid login, add whatever you needs to /etc/apt/sources.list, exit, launch pbuilder-dist intrepid update --override-config
[12:00] <danimo> hi
[12:00] <smarter> hi danimo
[12:01] <danimo> does anyone know why why kubuntu-kde4-desktop does not seem to depend on libkonq5-templates?
[12:01] <Xand3r> smarter: thx first solution worked fine
[12:01] <danimo> (or any of its subpackages, e.g. konqueror-kde4 or dolphin-kde4 ?
[12:05] <smarter> danimo: konqueror-kde4 depends on libkonq5 which depends on libkonq5-templates
[12:06] <danimo> smarter: but konqueror-kde4 is installed here, and it didnt't pull the dependency...
[12:06] <smarter> are you using KDE4 PPA or just hardy repos?
[12:06] <danimo> PPA
[12:06] <danimo> for 4.1
[12:07] <smarter> so apt-cache show konqueror-kde4|grep libkonq5
[12:07] <gnomefreak> is there plans on adding neon to intrepid in the ear future?
[12:07] <smarter> should return something
[12:08] <gnomefreak> smarter: you most likely need spaces in there
[12:08] <gnomefreak> smarter: it failes there way you haveit
[12:08] <jpds> gnomefreak: I think the schudule might just allow Amarok 2 to slip in.
[12:08] <smarter> gnomefreak: pipes work without space here
[12:08] <Serega> hi there
[12:08] <gnomefreak> i just tested
[12:09] <smarter> just tested too :}
[12:09] <gnomefreak> smarter: it doesnt output anything
[12:09] <gnomefreak> im not using the PPA since im on intrepid
[12:09] <smarter> gnomefreak: there's no konqueror-kde4 in intrepid, just konqueror
[12:10] <smarter> danimo: what's the output of dpkg -l|grep libkonq5 ?
[12:10] <gnomefreak> ah its been changed
[12:10] <danimo> ii  libkonq5                                   4:4.1.0-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa1                core libraries for Konqueror
[12:10] <danimo> ii  libkonq5-templates                         4:4.1.0-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa1                data files for the Konqueror libraries
[12:11] <danimo> smarter: (I installed it)
[12:11] <smarter> danimo: apt-cache rdepends libkonq5-templates
[12:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: the 'kate doesn't quit properly' is bug
[12:12] <apachelogger> happens on windows as well
[12:12] <apachelogger> and apparently also for kopete
[12:13] <danimo> Reverse Depends:
[12:13] <danimo>  |libkonq5
[12:13] <danimo>   libkonq5
[12:13] <danimo> strange
[12:14] <smarter> and same thing for libkonq5?
[12:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: is known bug?
[12:15] <apachelogger> didn't look at bugs.kde.org
[12:15] <apachelogger> danimo: is it a known bug that kate doesn't quit properly?
[12:15] <apachelogger> danimo: see kate -> file -> quit vs. kate -> kwin's close button
[12:16] <danimo> apachelogger: no idea + out for lunch
[12:16] <danimo> bbl
[12:16] <Notch-1> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=492231 please help me dealing with this strange guys :D
[12:18] <Notch-1> this guys are telling me strange things, and are even talking about your distro
[12:18] <apachelogger> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libkonq5-templates | kdesktop
[12:18] <apachelogger> smarter: ^
[12:18] <apachelogger> maybe I should count how many of this deps I find
[12:19] <apachelogger> at least 3 this week already
[12:19] <smarter> Oo
[12:19] <Notch-1> goto the "Mmmm, i'll ask kubuntu people..." point, if you don't want to read the whole page...
[12:21] <Wubbbi> smarter: hmmm ... sorry I have been away ^^ So is this like this ok? http://paste.ubuntu.com/32163/
[12:22] <smarter> Notch-1: indeed, we patch KDE to allow mounting of NTFS disks, but it's not totally insecure since it requires sudo password
[12:22] <Notch-1> nono, it's not a ntfs thing
[12:22] <Notch-1> it's fixed disks thing
[12:22] <gnomefreak> someone messed up when they built akonadi
[12:23] <gnomefreak> in the PPA
[12:23] <smarter> Wubbbi: gzip is for file, tar(.gz) is for directories, you're unziping a directory and gunzipping it without putting it in a tar first, it's not going to work
[12:23] <apachelogger> smarter, danimo: Uploading to kde4 (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
[12:23] <apachelogger>   kdebase-kde4_4.1.0-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa2.dsc: done.
[12:23] <Notch-1> this guys are telling me that thanks to the debian policy i can't mount fixed drive with hal...
[12:23] <apachelogger> libkonq5 fixed
[12:23] <apachelogger> Notch-1: what is a fixed drive?
[12:23] <smarter> Notch-1: what do you mean by fixed drive?
[12:23] <smarter> heh :P
[12:23] <Wubbbi> smarter: and how should it call now?
[12:24] <Notch-1> a internal hard-disk
[12:24] <Notch-1> sorry :P
[12:24] <Notch-1> read the first post, it's all clearly explained
[12:25] <apachelogger> well
[12:25] <apachelogger> it defenitely got to do with permissions
[12:26] <Notch-1> yes, i think so
[12:26] <Notch-1> but i tried everything...
[12:26] <smarter> we patched kdebase to launch kdesu to mount drives when you click on them
[12:26] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok ... so that mean ... I unzip it. Then it is a normal folder. And then I have to tar.gz it wo make a orig.tar.gz?! ... Now to write it down to the rules?
[12:26] <smarter> Wubbbi: yes
[12:26] <Notch-1> and this guys won't tell me where to find a configuration file to change this behavior :D
[12:26] <smarter> Wubbbi: remove the "| gunzip -bla" part
[12:27] <Wubbbi> smarter: "gzip -9fn -c - > \" this?
[12:27] <Notch-1> smarter: you mean that dolphin is launched with root permission??
[12:27] <smarter> Notch-1: no
[12:27] <Notch-1> nice
[12:28] <smarter> you click on the disk, a popup appears and ask for your password, it mount the disks, then you can use it
[12:28] <Notch-1> ah, i don't have this on my kubuntu
[12:28] <Notch-1> i just click
[12:29] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok I have removed it ... and now?
[12:29] <Wubbbi> what I need to add?
[12:29] <smarter> Wubbbi: replace it by "&& \" (every line should finish with that, except the last one)
[12:29] <Notch-1> it's a fresh version, downloaded 2 days ago, when i started to talk with this people :DDD
[12:29] <smarter> Wubbbi: and add a line to create the tar.gz
[12:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/kdesdk_4.1.0-0ubuntu1_to_ubuntu2.diff
[12:30] <smarter> Notch-1: if you have already used kdesu/sudo before, maybe it will not ask for your password a second time
[12:30] <Wubbbi> smarter: ufff ... how should it call? I never done this. I allways make a right klick and then "archive it to ... " ^^
[12:30] <apachelogger> Notch-1: kde4? ;-)
[12:30] <Notch-1> smarter:  nono, even in livecd mode
[12:30] <smarter> Wubbbi: use the man page, or tar --help
[12:31] <Notch-1> apachelogger: nope :D
[12:31] <smarter> Notch-1: that's normal, there's no password in the livecd
[12:31] <apachelogger> righto
[12:31] <Notch-1> ah, right :D
[12:31] <apachelogger> no password so that users can't lock themselfs out ;-)
[12:31] <Notch-1> i had istalled it now, let's try :D
[12:31] <Notch-1> hehehe
[12:31] <smarter> now, tell the Debian people we don't make insecures things ;)
[12:32] <Notch-1> smarter: forgive me, but still no password, installed mode this time :D
[12:32] <Notch-1> :DDD
[12:32] <Notch-1> debian people are very strange
[12:32] <Notch-1> i'm shamed to use debian, since some days :D
[12:32] <smarter> hmm, strange
[12:33] <Notch-1> eh, what you can tell me about them?
[12:33] <davmor2> Riddell: any ideas on when amorok2 might make it into Kubuntu?
[12:33] <apachelogger> davmor2: amarok-kde4
[12:33] <smarter> davmor2: it's already in Intrepid
[12:33] <apachelogger> hardy as well
[12:33] <Notch-1> just to undestand if i have to trash my live debian system that cost me 2 years of work to make it run on evry pc, with all i need...
[12:33] <davmor2> not on the cd's though
[12:34] <Riddell> davmor2: no, they don't want it on the CDs for intrepid
[12:35] <Wubbbi> smarter: tar -cjf <My data> archiv.tar.gz ???
[12:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: what does that change?
[12:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: version typo
[12:35] <davmor2> Riddell: Why?  Will it not be stable enough or something?
[12:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: someone replaced any 4.0.98 in the control with 4.1.0 causing the conflict to make the package uninstallable
[12:36] <supert0nes> ktorrent fits into that doesnt quit properly
[12:36] <Riddell> apachelogger: ah
[12:36] <Notch-1> smarter: i double checked it, it is still not asking anything (in the installed version)... is there a way to flush possible cached password?
[12:37] <apachelogger> davmor2: no way to tell
[12:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: uploaded, thakns
[12:37] <Riddell> thanks
[12:38] <Notch-1> smarter: ok it was cached, now is asking... but i never checked the "don't ask again" ckbox, butmaybe i'm wrong...
[12:38] <davmor2> K3b "Unable to find dvd+rw-format executable.   K3b uses dvd+rw-format to format DVD-RW's and DVD+RW's. Solution: Install the dvd+rw-tools package."
[12:38] <davmor2> should this be installed by default or not?
[12:39] <Riddell> davmor2: guess so
[12:40] <davmor2> I'll report it then Riddell :)
[12:40] <Riddell> davmor2: hmm, actually I have it installed and still get that message
[12:40] <davmor2> Bug with K3b then maybe?
[12:41] <Riddell> davmor2: yep
[12:41] <smarter> Notch-1: it's always cached for a certain amount of time, no checkbox
[12:42] <Wubbbi> smarter: is that right?
[12:42] <smarter> Wubbbi: tar czf bla.orig.tar.gz bla
[12:42] <Wubbbi> ohh ok thx
[12:43] <Wubbbi> what is the last bla about?
[12:43] <jpds> Wubbbi: The folder.
[12:43] <Wubbbi> and that should be?
[12:44] <jpds> Wubbbi: <My data>
[12:45] <vorian> yo yo
[12:45] <Wubbbi> ok
[12:46]  * Riddell out for a bit
[12:47] <davmor2> Riddell: bug 253253
[12:47] <Notch-1> smarter: ah,thanks
[12:47] <Notch-1> i'm new with working systems :DD
[12:48] <Notch-1> it was so beautiful, when i asked why i had to do things by hand they told me that linux in not windows :DDDDDDDD
[12:50] <apachelogger> Oo
[12:50] <apachelogger> linux is not awkward either
[12:50]  * apachelogger shudders
[12:51] <Notch-1> i'm about to trash debian shit and make my system work on kubuntu :D
[12:51] <Notch-1> i have some strange needs, like loop device mounted root, and so on... i spent much time so set all up, what a waste of time...
[12:53] <Notch-1> are there significant things i better know about kubuntu, before the exorcism? :DD
[12:53] <Notch-1> any different way to handle things...
[12:54] <Tonio_> re
[12:54] <Notch-1> (in a few words, will be enough)
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just purged k* and reinstalled kubutu-desktop, didn't change anything on my side
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: would be interesting that you create a new user and test...
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can't even open a kde session with a new user in the first place
[12:55] <Tonio_> or any other person interested in testing....
[12:56] <Tonio_> although, now I reinstalled everything, my kde3 apps using the systray don't go in the tray anymore.... I just get small windows including the icon.... I may miss a kde3 package
[12:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: any idea of the package required for this ?
[12:59] <apachelogger> !info libfacile-dev intrepid
[13:00] <Tonio_> apachelogger: do you experience any problems with the folder view plasmoid ?
[13:00]  * apachelogger doesn't use folderview ;-)
[13:00] <apachelogger> Nightrose: you use it, don't you?
[13:01] <Nightrose> i do
[13:01] <Tonio_> Nightrose: and it works ?
[13:01] <Nightrose> jep
[13:01] <Nightrose> no problems here
[13:01] <Nightrose> though this is not a fresh install
[13:02] <apachelogger> Tonio_: what is the problem?
[13:02] <Tonio_> apachelogger: some applets are dead and just don't work
[13:02] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I suspect a problem with xdg
[13:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: with my "tonio" account, my desktop folder is /home/tonio/Desktop
[13:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: when I create a new account, the desktop folder is translated /home/tonio/Bureau
[13:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: kde doesn't even start
[13:03] <Tonio_> that can make sense
[13:04] <apachelogger> would be quite strange
[13:04] <apachelogger> folderview should use kstandarddirs I guess
[13:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger: the point is that I kde doesn't start when I create a new account
[13:04] <vorian> hmmm
[13:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger: btw I just apt-get remove --purge k*  , performed an autoremove, and then reinstall kubuntu-desktop
[13:05] <Tonio_> apachelogger: means I'm pretty sure my computer is cleaned of any broken package
[13:05] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/32178/
[13:05] <apachelogger> Tonio_: anything interesting in .xsession-errors?
[13:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: performing a test before this and I'll let you know
[13:07] <Tonio_> hum...... creating a Desktop folder doesn't help
[13:07] <smarter> Wubbbi: looks at where all the other "&& \" are and where you're one is, and try to understand what it is for
[13:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: http://paste.toniox.org/44
[13:08] <Tonio_> that's ugly :)
[13:08] <Wubbbi> && = and do ...
[13:08] <Wubbbi> ?
[13:08] <smarter> Wubbbi: yep, but the \ is here to allow you to change line
[13:08] <smarter> Wubbbi: and the orig must contains the version
[13:08] <Wubbbi> and that mean?
[13:09] <smarter> Wubbbi: what means what?
 Wubbbi: yep, but the \ is here to allow you to change line
[13:09] <apachelogger> Tonio_: looks unhealthy ;-)
[13:09] <apachelogger> meh
[13:09] <apachelogger> uploading l10n makes me lag bigtime
[13:09] <Tonio_> permissions issue somehow ?
[13:10] <Tonio_> rebooting to test
[13:10]  * apachelogger goes out for some coffee
[13:11] <smarter> Wubbbi: it means the newline is escaped, so that if you press return to do a new line, it will be the same as if there was no \ and no newline
[13:12] <Wubbbi> aha ok ... is that better now http://paste.ubuntu.com/32180/ @ smarter
[13:12] <smarter> Wubbbi: are you  sure you understand what the "&& \" is for?
[13:13] <smarter> by the way, you should use a "_" before the version number, not a "-"
[13:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I suspect my problem can be due to my .kde
[13:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but the really strange point is that not any new user can connect..... that, I don't understand the point, any clue ?
[13:14] <smarter> Wubbbi: have you looked at the lastline? it's what you kio-sysinfo-$${version}-whatever should be
[13:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: my testing user has the same groups as the standard, so that may not be a permissions issue.....
[13:16] <Wubbbi> smarter: so I should rename the line " ${CURDIR}/${DEB_SOURCE_PACKAGE}_$${version}.orig.tar.gz "?
[13:16] <smarter> Wubbbi: you should use that instead of kio-sysinfo-bla
[13:17] <seezer> anyone building kde4 applications with kde packages from kubuntu? my 4.1.0 FindAutomoc4.cmake file fails to find automoc4 - iirc it was able to find it in 4.0.8x. any hints?
[13:17] <smarter> Wubbbi: and please, try to understand what the "\" is for, putting one on the middle of a line does not make sense
[13:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/247003
[13:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I should link the bug to kdm too I guess
[13:20] <Tonio_> exactly the same issue
[13:21] <Wubbbi> smarter: Like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/32182/
[13:21] <smarter> Wubbbi: what is the last line for?
[13:22] <smarter> Wubbbi: use && \
[13:22] <Wubbbi> smarter: I dont know ^^ the wiki Guid gave me that ^^
[13:22] <smarter> Wubbbi: try to understand how it worked and why it's not going to work with the changes you did
[13:26] <Wubbbi> smarter: can you give me the wikipage again? I have lost it :/
[13:26] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok what should I typ into goodle?
[13:26] <Wubbbi> google
[13:27] <smarter> Wubbbi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[13:27] <smarter> you could have used wiki.ubuntu.com search to find that
[13:41] <Wubbbi> smarter: hmmm the wiki dont tell me what "${CURDIR}/${DEB_SOURCE_PACKAGE}_$${version}.orig.tar.gz" means
[13:41] <Wubbbi> :/
[13:41] <smarter> Wubbbi: try to use your brain
[13:44] <Wubbbi> smarter: hihi xD
[13:46] <Wubbbi> ok that mean "${DEB_SOURCE_PACKAGE}_$${version}" --- "Package_verion" ok ...
[13:46] <Wubbbi> version
[13:46] <Wubbbi> but what is that? "${CURDIR"
[13:46] <Wubbbi> ${CURDIR}
[13:48] <smarter> current directory :P
[13:48] <smarter> but you could have added echo ${CURDIR} in the get-orig-source to see what it's supposed to do
[13:51] <Wubbbi> smarter: Is that like this right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/32189/
[13:52] <smarter> no :'(
[13:53] <smarter> wth is this "${CURDIR}/kio-sysinfo_$${version}.orig.tar.gz" doing in the middle of nowhere, and why do you have a \ but don't have a line feed?
[13:57] <Wubbbi> smarter:  should I remove "${CURDIR}/kio-sysinfo_$${version}.orig.tar.gz" ?
[13:57] <smarter> \o/
[13:58] <smarter> yes
[13:58] <smarter> and add ${CURDIR}/ to you kio-sysinfo thing
[14:00] <Wubbbi> smarter: Like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/32193/
[14:00] <smarter> YES !! :)
[14:01] <smarter> now you just need to add commands to remove the non-free icons  before the tar czf
[14:01] <smarter> and add .dfsg to the version number
[14:01] <Wubbbi> Yeah! :D
[14:06] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok now they should be remove right ( http://paste.ubuntu.com/32195/ ) what to do now?
[14:09] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok now they are removed ... what to do now? Creat a "Icon" folder in Debian, and put the Icons into there. And they add that Icons to the Rule file, to Install them right?
[14:10] <smarter> Wubbbi: use debian/install to install them
[14:12] <Wubbbi> ok ... and what to right in install?
[14:13] <smarter> Wubbbi: debian/icons/bla.png usr/share/bla/
[14:14] <Wubbbi> right = write xD
[14:21] <Wubbbi> smarter: that does usr/share/bla mean? oO
[14:25] <Wubbbi> smarter ?
[14:26] <smarter> Wubbbi: that means that if the file has to be installed in /usr/share/bla, you should write usr/share/bla/
[14:29] <Wubbbi> smarter: ohhh they need to be installed ... ok
[14:30] <Wubbbi> smarter: Is it possible to say ... " /usr/share/kio-sysinfo ???
[14:30] <Wubbbi> or better "/usr/share/kio-sysinfo/icons
[14:30] <Wubbbi> "
[14:31] <smarter> Wubbbi: I don't know, see where they are installed
[14:31] <smarter> use dpkg -L nameofthepackage
[14:33] <Wubbbi> smarter: hmmm ... why they need to be installed? I mean I have them in The "icons" folder
[14:35] <smarter> Wubbbi: because, how does dpkg now where they should go if you don't write it in the debian/install file?
[14:35] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: could you please check the video in my latest blog post and tell me your opinion when I get back in some hours?
[14:36] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: the link is http://artfowl.blogspot.com/2008/07/background-stuff.html
[14:37] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: sure, i'll look at it in a few
[14:37] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: is there a package of the latest updates?
[14:37] <Wubbbi> smarter:  ohhh right so that mean that the icons are going to install on /usr/share/bla ... ok ...but that makes me confuse "[15:31] <smarter> Wubbbi: I don't know, see where they are installed" ... I dont knwo where they are installed. First you are saying they need to be install at xy and then you say they are installed at xy ... what now?
[14:37] <smarter> Wubbbi: I have to go IRL, be back later
[14:37] <smarter> Wubbbi: use dpkg -L to see where they are installed
[14:38] <smarter> then write that down in the debian/install file
[14:44] <Wubbbi> smarter: hä? where is what installed?
[14:49] <jjesse> quick question in intrepid, is there a replacement for the system settings disks and filesystems that would allow me to control mount points etc?
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: there isn't one yet
[14:49] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: bummer... need to remember how to config mount points manually then :(
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> :(
[14:50] <jjesse> new device notifier is showing my NTFS drive and also my FAT32 drive but when i click on "open in dolphin" nothing happens
[14:59] <ScottK> Before I mark Bug 253245 invalid, would it make sense to add a stub pyqtconfig in python-qt4 that just raises an error that says, "pyqtconfig is in the python-qt4-dev package.  You need to install that package to use pyqtconfig"?
[15:03] <\sh> ScottK: no...if it belongs to the part of "developing for pyqt4" everybody using debian/ubuntu should know that those stuff is laying in -dev packages...developing with/using pyqt4 , everything is in the main package...(minus dbus ,-)
[15:04] <ScottK> \sh: It's not the first time I've seen a bug report like that.
[15:05] <ScottK> If this was Debian, I'd say "Tough, they should know better.", but in Ubuntu maybe we can be nicer?
[15:06] <\sh> ScottK: because it's not common for python packages to have -dev packages for low level stuff, but it is really following debian policy regarding development files
[15:07] <\sh> if someone includes PyQT4.pyqtconfig  he knows exactly why...and should know the debian way...really noone else is fighting with this
[15:07] <ScottK> Agreed it's the right place for it.  OK.
[15:07] <ScottK> Invalid it is.
[15:08] <\sh> ScottK: I just had a closer look what this module does, and it's nothing really, which I would import, if I'm not sure what I'm doing...means: application development with pyqt4 doesn't use it...
[15:08] <davmor2> There's no usplash screen on the installed intrepid system still :(
[15:09] <ScottK> \sh: I think it's only actually useful during build time.
[15:09] <\sh> ScottK: or when you want to add something very low level to it (like selfmade kde widget / kde addon libs where someone needs sip interfaces)
[15:18] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: are you online?
[15:24] <nixternal> jjesse: you about ready to start the doc migration from kde 3 to kde 4 for Kubuntu?
[15:25] <nixternal> Riddell: I will be working on the docs and I am sure jjesse will do a little as well...if we can get a few people to proofread and provide text docs that would be great...finding docbook people to work on Kubuntu or KDE docs is damn near impossible
[15:25] <GreySim> How do I get involved with proofreading?
[15:26] <nixternal> GreySim: stick around here, follow the kubuntu-devel and ubuntu-docs mailing lists as well
[15:26] <Jucato> oh.. need to subscribe to ubuntu-docs too?
[15:26] <GreySim> Will do.
[15:27] <nixternal> Jucato: not really as it has just been jjesse and I doing the docs, so we would always email between us and cc Riddell just to annoy him :P
[15:27]  * ryanakca debates on doing a fresh install of intrepid vs just dist-upgrading
[15:27] <Jucato> nixternal: ah ok. maybe I can help this time around with KDE 4 shtuff
[15:27] <Jucato> docs I mean
[15:28] <Jucato> I can start w/ poopreading
[15:28] <nixternal> you are beyond proofreading, I have seen your documentation you have created
[15:28]  * Jucato snaps fingers
[15:28] <Jucato> okie dokie
[15:28] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: are you online?
[15:28] <Jucato> well then, I'm volunteering for kubuntu docs for intrepid
[15:29] <Jucato> nixternal: keep me on a leash please :)
[15:30] <jjesse> nixternal: just loaded intrepid so i can start doing docs
[15:30] <jjesse> and i did get my wireless to work
[15:30] <jjesse> now if i can just figure out how to mount my drives
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> Wubbbi: yes
[15:30] <Jucato> hm... of course I need to upgrade to intrepid hahaha!
[15:31] <nixternal> I need to build a new desktop at home so I can get intrepid on it and rebuild my laptop at home
[15:31] <aos101> What's the holdup on getting the fix in bug 199393 released?  Is it just waiting for someone on the SRU verification team to test it?
[15:31] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: can you tell me what I have to write in debian/install? smarter told me that I have to write /debian/icon/mypicture.png /usr/share/whatever ... what does these /usr/share/whatever mean?
[15:31] <nixternal> it is going to be a bit to hot to cycle much this week, so I plan on working on Kubuntu.... Riddell do you have anything else other than docs I can work on this week? If so, message me or email me a list of things to work on, including coding if need be
[15:32] <JontheEchidna> Wubbbi: that's where teh pcitures will be installed
[15:32] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: can I choose one are is it a special place?
[15:32] <ryanakca> Jucato: gah, Need to get 3049MB of archives... I have to wait 'till August to upgrade so I don't go over my bandwidth limit :/
[15:33] <Jucato> ryanakca: heh I'm also hesitant to upgrade now.. last time I tried, X failed to start.. and the new X config system is totally alien to me...
[15:33] <Jucato> ryanakca: and I sort of need a working Kubuntu KDE 4 to demo on Aug. 24
[15:33] <JontheEchidna> Wubbbi: you have to choose the place where it would normally be installed
[15:33] <ryanakca> Jucato: X has a new config system?
[15:34] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: a Place where is Icons will be installed ... ok.
[15:34] <Wubbbi> thank you :)
[15:34] <Jucato> ryanakca: well, not really X.. or dunno what happened.. if you do a fresh install, look at your xorg.conf
[15:34] <Jucato> ryanakca: all "Configured Foo" entries
[15:35] <ryanakca> Jucato: hmm... I might dual boot.... have an intrepid and keep my hardy... imho, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but I don't know much about X anyways.... I do all my configuring with dpkg-reconfigure :)
[15:36] <Jucato> ryanakca: well the problem is it when it breaks.. dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg doesn't do the same thing anymore :)
[15:36] <Jucato> it just reconfigures the keyboard and mouse I think
[15:37] <ryanakca> gah... So, how would a newish user reconfigure X when it breaks without manually editing Xorg.conf... at least you used to be able to say ``oh, run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg ... It will ask you a few questions, and it'll get X back up and running for you''...
[15:39] <Jucato> ryanakca: I'm sure there has been a way.. I just haven't been paying attention probably...
[15:39] <Jucato> but the old ways don't work :)
[15:40] <Jucato> (at least I think manually editing xorg.conf still works... I think)
[15:41] <Wubbbi> smarter: are you back?
[15:42] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: ok I have done this now. What I have to do that the icons will be installed now. I want to replace them The Old Icons are Removed and now I need to install them. How to do that?
[15:42]  * JontheEchidna doesn't understand
[15:47] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: hihi xD ... ok ... I want to replace some Icons with other Icons. I cant do that with a patch. So I have to write it down in debian/rules. My Rules looks like this ( http://paste.ubuntu.com/32195/ ) ... Now I have created a debian/Icons folder, where I have my "new" Icons. Then I have created a install file. Now I need to right something down, that the system (dpkg) install the new icons ( after they are remove ) ...
[15:47] <Wubbbi> Remove Old + Install New = Replace. Replace = what I want :)
[15:48]  * JontheEchidna has never done this to be honest
[15:49] <Wubbbi> xD
[16:07] <Riddell> nixternal: I think docs would be the main thing
[16:07] <Riddell> nixternal: if that's what interests you of course :)
[16:13] <Riddell> nixternal: porting pinentry-qt to qt 4 might be an interesting coding task
[16:19] <mornfall> (Afternoon...)
[16:19] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: kdeutils needs a rebuild in Intrepid
[16:24] <Riddell> why, it's a mornfall
[16:24] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: the hal-cups issue wasn't it?
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: python-usb
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> it builds fine in pbuilder now
[16:27] <Riddell> anyone use ktnef?
[16:27]  * Riddell retries kdeutils
[16:28] <mornfall> : - P
[16:28] <mornfall> It would seem so indeed.
[16:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just noticed than adept crashes on intrepid
[16:31] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: I think that's because there is not konsole-kde3 kpart in intrepid
[16:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: makes sense indeed
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> *is not a konsole kpart
[16:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: what is the status of adept kde4 ?
[16:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: deverses a package or not ?
[16:32] <mornfall> Good question.
[16:32] <Riddell> Tonio_: why ask me, mornfall is just here waiting for a hug from you :)
[16:32] <Tonio_> hey mornfall :)
[16:33] <mornfall> : - )
[16:33] <mornfall> Hi.
[16:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I didn't look at the names on the channel :)
[16:33]  * Tonio_ higs mornfall
[16:33] <Tonio_> s/higs/hugs...
[16:33] <nixternal> Riddell: pinentry has already been ported to qt4...it used to be in the kde svn
[16:33] <mornfall> The status would go as, if I manage it in 3 weeks, then it will be done, otherwise it'll get much longer, I guess.
[16:34] <nixternal> but if it hasn't, I will work on it again
[16:34] <mornfall> So hope for these 3 weeks? ; - )
[16:34] <Riddell> nixternal: ah well, package it up then :)
[16:34] <Tonio_> mornfall: that would be nice :)
[16:34] <nixternal> roger dodger...gotta find it now.... ScottK and I found it a while ago
[16:34] <mornfall> The idea is likely to be that, very unusually, my sorting through bugzilla actually gave me some motivation.
[16:35] <Tonio_> hehe
[16:36] <Riddell> actually seele was just asking about adept the other day
[16:37] <mornfall> I have 4 items on 3.0 must-fix.
[16:38] <mornfall> Which isn't really that bad.
[16:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can still prepare some adept-kde4 packages tomorrow
[16:38] <Riddell> packaging isn't a problem Tonio_
[16:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know that ;)
[16:39] <Wubbbi> smarter: are you back?
[16:39] <mornfall> The packages should be in a remotely decent shape, but they do need rebuilds.
[16:39] <Tonio_> well better wait 3 weeks then
[16:39] <mornfall> What day is it today?
[16:39] <mornfall> Okey.
[16:39] <Wubbbi> Do anyone know how to get the changelog from kde 4.1 RC1 to Kde 4.1 Final?
[16:39] <mornfall> Tonio_: I will have alpha 5 by tomorrow evening.
[16:40] <Tonio_> mornfall: super ! :)
[16:40] <mornfall> I'll upload to Debian experimental and I let you sort out KUbuntu?
[16:40] <mornfall> That'd work for me at least... : - )
[16:41] <mornfall> (It's not hard to get packages to PPA, but it's still work that you can save me...)
[16:48] <Wubbbi> When I have patches for a package, do I need them to the rules ( via "include xy" ) ?
[16:53] <Riddell> Wubbbi: you need to make sure that rules applies the patch, most packages will if you put the patch in debian/patches
[16:53] <Riddell> cdbs packages will typically include simple-patchsys or quilt to apply the patch
[16:54] <aos101> Riddell: Do you know why it's taking so long for the fix to bug 199393 to be released?  Is it just waiting for the SRU verification team to test it?
[17:00] <Riddell> aos101: good question
[17:01] <Riddell> aos101: yeah I guess so, the verification team tend to need a poke, try pinging bdmurray
[17:01] <Riddell> on #ubuntu-devel
[17:02] <Wubbbi> Riddell: aha ok thank you for the information :)
[17:02] <aos101> Riddell: Thanks, I'll try that.
[17:03] <mornfall> So Interpid will be running on 4.1 as primary desktop?
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> ^yes
[17:04] <mornfall> If I get adept beta (feature-complete, that is) out in three weeks, that'll get in, right?
[17:04] <Riddell> mornfall: yes indeed
[17:05] <JontheEchidna> go mornfall go! :)
[17:10] <apachelogger> kmail doesn't quit properly either
[17:18] <mornfall> Weekly cron jobs run by default roughly once a week on ubuntu, right? (Anacron or such...)
[17:19] <Wubbbi> smarter: are you back?
[17:26] <Riddell> mornfall: like /etc/cron.weekly/apt-xapian-index ?  I'd imagine it's exactly once a week
[17:27] <mornfall> Riddell: Yeah, that one. But I guess I'll still call it if it is needed, makes everything more robust.
[18:07] <vorian> bug #253301 is ready
[18:31] <goetzc> hi
[18:31] <Riddell> hi goetzc
[18:59] <apachelogger> omg, iridium is dead
[18:59] <apachelogger> that explains the build queue length ;-)
[19:00] <apachelogger> I think svn xbmc is built 3 times a day
[19:09] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ping
[19:11] <gnomefreak> kdeedu is stopping intrepid packages?
[19:15] <apachelogger> gnomefreak: WIP
[19:15] <gnomefreak> WIP?
[19:16] <smarter> work in progress
[19:16] <gnomefreak> ah thanks
[19:22] <Artemis_Fowl> damn. I have to go again... :(
[19:33] <Wubbbi> smarter: are you away?
[19:33] <smarter> I'm here
[19:35] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok
[19:35] <Wubbbi> smarter: I still dont understand the thing with the debian/install file. You said that I have to search for something. But I dont know what.
[19:36] <smarter> you have to know where kio-sysinfo install the icons
[19:49] <Wubbbi> smarter: the problem is, that the kio-sysinfo what I have, an Initial release is.
[19:49] <smarter> and?
[19:49] <smarter> (germans really speak like Yoda :P)
[19:50] <Wubbbi> xD
[19:51] <Wubbbi> yes and if it was an Initial release I dont know where the kio-sysinfo install the icons
[19:52] <apachelogger> smarter: that is because germans can make super awesome sentences featuring 30 commas and using at least 100 words ;-)
[19:53] <apachelogger> Wubbbi: why do you need debian/install anyway?
[19:53] <smarter> apachelogger: I know, and that's why I get bad marks in german :P
[19:54] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: smarter told me xD
[19:54] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: I dont know why
[19:56] <smarter> (/me hates strong verbs too)
[19:57] <Wubbbi> smarter: why do I need debian/install?
[19:57] <smarter> Wubbbi: to install the free icons
[19:58] <smarter> other solution is to patch the icon to use system icons
[19:58] <smarter> s/patch the icon/patch the source/
[19:59] <Wubbbi> smarter: So I can patch the source by replacing the icons?
[19:59] <smarter> s/by replacing/to replace/
[20:02] <Wubbbi> smarter: what? xD ... whatever ... what to do now? hust change the icons in the orig.tar.gz? oO
[20:02] <Wubbbi> hust = just
[20:02] <smarter> Wubbbi: debian/install is the easiest way to do it imho
[20:04] <Wubbbi> smarter: ok ... and what to do with that? On the Left side I write down the path to the icons debian/icons/ati.png etc. then I make a "Space" and what I have to write down then?
[20:04] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:04] <apachelogger> oh
[20:04] <apachelogger> dude
[20:04] <apachelogger> smarter: you didn't listen to me the other day
[20:04] <apachelogger> the original images _can't_ be part of the tarball
[20:04] <smarter> apachelogger: I know
[20:05] <smarter> apachelogger: that's why I said he should remove them using get-orig-source
[20:05] <apachelogger> yeah
[20:05] <smarter> apachelogger: then add others using whatever he wants
[20:05] <apachelogger> but also place the new icons in using get-orig-source
[20:05] <apachelogger> create a bzr branch and push the images then
[20:05] <apachelogger> then bzr pull them in get-orig
[20:05] <smarter> I don't really like doing more changes than necessary to the orig
[20:06] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: das ist das was ich die ganze zeit sagen will. Was muss ich eingeben, damit er mir auch die neuen Icons installiert? Ich meine nur eintfernen bringt ja nix
[20:06]  * smarter ist totally kaput
[20:07] <ryanakca> Hmmm... looks like the german population is overtaking the french population in #kubuntu-devel
[20:07] <ryanakca> (assuming that is german, of course ;)
[20:07] <smarter> I don't know how to say totally in German :P
[20:07] <apachelogger> smarter: this change is necessary
[20:08] <smarter> apachelogger: removing the nonfree icons is necessary
[20:08] <smarter> adding other is not
[20:08] <smarter> other icons
[20:08] <apachelogger> smarter: the surce should work fine without debian/
[20:08] <apachelogger> smarter: if you want to do it the complicate way, then you guys will have to patch that thing to use the oxygen package itself
[20:09] <Wubbbi> smarter: why is it not nessessary the add new?
[20:10] <Wubbbi> Hello? ... I have add a Icon folder in /debain. There I have put all the "new" ( Oxygen Icons ) into. Now I want, that these Icon are getting Installed and in the folder src/about/suse/images ... then the Icons will work fine
[20:10] <Wubbbi> the question = How to do that?
[20:10] <smarter> IMHO, it is not necessary to add other icons to the orig.tar.gz, since they're not part of the program, may have a different licence, and the program works without them
[20:11] <smarter> Wubbbi: ask apachelogger :P
[20:11]  * smarter is tired
[20:11] <Wubbbi> smarter: Oxygen Icons are GPL Icons. The Program is GPL too ... no problem
[20:11] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: help me! xD
[20:12] <smarter> Wubbbi: no
[20:12] <smarter>  Oxygen icon theme is dual licensed. You may copy it under the Creative Common Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License or the GNU Library General Public License.
[20:12] <smarter> you will have to put that in the debian/copyright too
[20:13] <apachelogger> smarter: that is less work than uuing around
[20:13] <apachelogger> either do it the real simple way or the completely right way
[20:13] <smarter> apachelogger: why should we use uuencode/decode?
[20:13] <apachelogger> smarter: where are the icons coming from?
[20:13] <smarter> apachelogger: debian/icons
[20:13] <smarter> then installed using debian/install
[20:14] <smarter> or, we could patch the source to use the system icons
[20:14] <apachelogger> smarter: debian/icons?
[20:14] <smarter> inside debian/
[20:14] <smarter> why do I feel like I keep repeating  the same stuff since days? :/
[20:14] <apachelogger> eh
[20:15] <apachelogger> smarter: debian is a diff against orig
[20:15] <apachelogger> you can't add binaries to debian?!
[20:15] <smarter> hmm, right
[20:16] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: how to replace the icons now? In Rules, I have removed them. Now I want to add the new one ... How to do that?
[20:16] <apachelogger> Wubbbi: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[20:17] <apachelogger> create a code branch in your launchpad profile
[20:17] <apachelogger> bzr push the icons to that branch
[20:17] <apachelogger> then bzr pull them in get-orig and include them in the tarball recreation process
[20:20] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: Cant I write it direkt to get-orig like " install /debian/Icons/bla.png, blab.png, blib.png /src/about/suse/images/ " ?
[20:21] <apachelogger> Wubbbi: you can
[20:22] <apachelogger> you shouldn't
[20:22] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: why?
[20:22] <apachelogger> as in I will not advocate the package
[20:22] <apachelogger> Wubbbi: because the changes have to be reproducable for new upstream releases
[20:22] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: but it is in the debain folder.
[20:22]  * apachelogger feels smarter's redundancy
[20:23] <apachelogger> [21:15:09] <apachelogger> smarter: debian is a diff against orig
[20:23] <apachelogger> [21:15:14] <apachelogger> you can't add binaries to debian?!
[20:23] <apachelogger> Wubbbi: ^
[20:23] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: so it is also not possible to remove them via. get-orig?
[20:24] <apachelogger> Wubbbi: read that carefully
[20:24] <Wubbbi> what? the link for bzr?
[20:24] <apachelogger> the two lines I pasted
[20:25] <apachelogger> you can't store binary files in debian/
[20:25] <apachelogger> and images (expect for svn and xpm) are binary files
[20:25] <apachelogger> thus can't be added to debian/
[20:25] <apachelogger> thus you need the bzr branch
[20:25] <apachelogger> which is kind of an online storage for the icons
[20:25] <apachelogger> then you can pull the icons in via get-orig
[20:25] <Wubbbi> apachelogger: but it is possible to remove them? ... I mean the nonfree
[20:26] <apachelogger> yes
[20:26] <Wubbbi> ok
[20:26] <apachelogger> it is the whole point of it
[20:26] <apachelogger> you create a new orig
[20:27] <Wubbbi> ahhh ... now I understand
[20:27]  * apachelogger is off for tonight
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> Meeting in 2 hours?
[21:05] <vorian> JontheEchidna: 4?
[21:05] <vorian> @now
[21:05] <vorian> hmm
[21:05] <vorian> no fridge!
[21:25]  * Xand3r passes some cookies arround, he passes the driving test to day
[21:31] <Tm_T> Xand3r: nice :)
[21:31] <Riddell> yay
[21:34] <Xand3r> hi Riddell
[21:34] <Xand3r> i think the meeting is an open one or?
[21:36] <Riddell> 1.5 yes
[21:36] <Nightrose> it is Xand3r
[21:36] <Nightrose> and wohoooo @ driving license
[21:36] <Xand3r> Nightrose: ^^
[21:36] <emunkki> Nightrose, isn't it drivers license ;)
[21:36] <vorian> yay Xand3r :)
[21:36] <Nightrose> emunkki: might be ;-)
[21:37] <Xand3r> ^^
[21:37]  * Nightrose shuts up and goes back to watching dr horrible
[21:37] <Xand3r> 22:00 utc is late
[21:38] <yuriy> umm meeting is in #kubuntu-devel, not #ubuntu-meeting, right?
[21:38] <Riddell> it makes it possible for americans to come, and geeks tend to work late
[21:38] <Riddell> yuriy: yes
[21:39]  * yuriy fixes wiki
[21:39] <Tm_T> meeting is here?
[21:39] <Tm_T> I see
[21:40] <Xand3r> Riddell: ok, thats right, i some times forget, that here are working people from the hole world
[21:40] <hunger> kstars has a file conflict with the indi package.
[21:40] <hunger> The file is /usr/bin/indiserver
[21:41] <hunger> What makes this annoying is that kstars seems to depend on indi:-|
[21:41] <Riddell> vorian: seen that? ^^
[21:42] <vorian> ah
[21:42] <JontheEchidna> question:
[21:42]  * hunger heads for bed. Good night.
[21:42] <vorian> Riddell: nope
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> hmm, wait
[21:43] <vorian> i'll take a closer look since i'm working on that package now
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> nevermind
[21:44] <hunger> Is digikam installable on intrepid again by the way?
[21:44] <Xand3r> hunger: are you working on it?
[21:44] <vorian> not quite yet hunger, Xand3r is working on the kde4 version
[21:44] <hunger> Somebody had been working on updated packages a while back as I recall.
[21:45] <hunger> Xand3r: Nope, Just trying to use it.
[21:45] <Xand3r> urg yea
[21:45] <Xand3r> but i hade much stress
[21:45] <Xand3r> and was not in that mood to do it, verry tired the hole day
[21:45] <hunger> Xand3r: Great:-) I don't need the deb that urgent, but it is good to know somebody is working on it.
[21:46] <vorian> Xand3r: what do you have left to complete with digikam?
[21:46] <Xand3r> and you have no fun with uploading the source of digikam, if you have only 9kb/s upstream
[21:46] <hunger> Xand3r: Knowing somebody does work on it makes me looking forward to update my installation each morning;-)
[21:47] <Xand3r> vorian: somthing with the pictures, but if i change something i konw after compiling if it works, but thats thake much time-,-
[21:48] <vorian> Riddell: kstars and indi both include the indiserver binary, i'll remove it from kstars.install
[21:48] <Xand3r> hunger: thats why i update more times the day^^
[21:48] <hunger> Xand3r: Can you use CCache? That speeds up things for me a lot.
[21:48] <hunger> things == rebuilding stuff over and over.
[21:48] <vorian> Xand3r: do you have your latest work on revu?  :)
[21:49] <Xand3r> vorian: nop
[21:49] <Xand3r> you know i takes to mich time
[21:49] <Xand3r> and debuild -S includes the source on my pc -.-
[21:49] <Xand3r> so every change take 1 hour
[21:49] <vorian> Xand3r: can you upload what you have? we'll see what more needs to be done :)
[21:50] <vorian> 1 hour!
[21:50] <vorian> yikes
[21:50] <Xand3r> ofcours
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> is it failing in dh_install?
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> or during the actual compiling?
[21:50] <Xand3r> dh:
[21:50] <Xand3r> dh_
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> if it's doing the dh_ stuff just use debuild -nc
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> that way you don't have to compile everything again
[21:51] <Xand3r> JontheEchidna: i have no intrepid
[21:51] <Xand3r> so i have to do i with pbuilder
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> ouch
[21:51] <Xand3r> and that clears the cache after every compiling-.-
[21:51]  * JontheEchidna feels your pain
[21:52] <Xand3r> thx
[21:53] <Xand3r> i have realy no fun staring working on digikam -.- the pbuilder might take hours-.-
[21:53] <Xand3r> i need a better inet and a better pc
[21:53] <Xand3r> is there some one sponsoring me?
[21:53]  * vorian waves
[21:56] <Xand3r> vorian: you?
[21:57] <vorian> yes :)
[21:57] <Xand3r> realy?
[21:58] <Xand3r> i have i somthing said wrong, did you get me wrong or do you real want to buy me a new computer?
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> Xand3r: I think he meant he'd testbuild stuff for you
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> he did that for me when we worked on koffice2
[21:59] <Xand3r> ah
[21:59] <Xand3r> nice
[21:59] <vorian> haha
[21:59] <vorian> sorry to get your hopes up
[22:00] <Xand3r> hmm
[22:00] <vorian> i meant i would help you build it
[22:00] <Xand3r> vorian: thx
[22:00] <Xand3r> gnaaa i think i know my fault now
[22:09] <Xand3r> yea
[22:10] <Xand3r> debuild -S -sd is the solution^^
[22:10] <vorian> :)
[22:11] <Xand3r> so now i have to wait for revu, hope revu likes my solution
[22:12] <vorian> :)
[22:12] <Xand3r> vorian: the funny thing is, i have red this help much times, but now i got it
[22:12] <vorian> yay!
[22:12] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: you are going to be at the meeting and your wiki page is up to date? ;-)
[22:15] <Nightrose> apachelogger: meeting in 45 minutes (in case you forgot)
[22:16] <Xand3r> vorian: when the new version of digikam is on revu, could you test build it?
[22:16] <Xand3r> that would be realy nice
[22:16] <vorian> Xand3r: yepper
[22:17] <Xand3r> vorian: thx
[22:17] <Xand3r> vorian: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=digikam-kde4
[22:18] <Xand3r> i have to wrte the solution down before i forget it
[22:18] <vorian> Xand3r: you didn't upload the orig.tar.gz
[22:18] <Xand3r> righty
[22:18] <Xand3r> that is why it workt so fast
[22:19] <Xand3r> take the one from the upload befor
[22:19] <Xand3r> i changed nothing on the source
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: got to add my 4.1 final packaging thingies
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> then it'll be complete
[22:19] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: go go go!
[22:19] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> ;-)
[22:21] <vorian> Xand3r: revu is not that crafty, i'm afraid
[22:22] <Xand3r> vorian: who are the admins^^
[22:22] <Xand3r> i have learned to talk with the devels helps^^
[22:24] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: ping me when your page is ready so I can have a look before the meeting :)
[22:24] <JontheEchidna> ok
[22:26] <Xand3r> vorian: have you start the building? how much cores has your pc?
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jonathan265
[22:30] <Nightrose> thanks :)
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> np
[22:32] <mhb> greetings from an ex-KDE fan
[22:33] <Riddell> hi mhb
[22:33] <Riddell> looksee what I've just done http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/gdebi-kde_0.3.12_all.deb
[22:34] <kwwii> lol, you cannot install it with gdebi
[22:34] <Riddell> uh oh
[22:35] <kwwii> gdebi-core is needed it seems
[22:35] <Riddell> well sure
[22:35] <Riddell> gdebi should work that out for you
[22:35] <kwwii> nope, it gives me an error
[22:36] <Arby>    same here
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> ... well ain't this a bitch, I have to go to town >:(
[22:36]  * JontheEchidna curses
[22:36] <kwwii> "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: gdebi-core"
[22:36] <vorian> wha!
[22:36] <vorian> JontheEchidna: really?
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> srsly
[22:36] <kwwii> Riddell: my system is running hardy, naturally
[22:37] <Riddell> kwwii: oh, it won't work there I'm afraid
[22:37] <kwwii> Riddell: that would explain the error then :-)
[22:37] <Riddell> Arby: how did extragear for hardy go?
[22:39] <Arby> Riddell: not finished yet, I ran out of time
[22:39] <Arby> I should have time to do more tomorrow evening
[22:39] <Arby> sorry
[22:41] <Riddell> Arby: no problem, just when you can
[22:42] <vorian> Arby: what needs to be done yet?
[22:43] <vorian> kgraph, kiconedit, gopher, kmldonkey, kpov, skanlite
[22:58] <Riddell> meeting in a couple of minutes?
[22:58] <seele> yep
[22:58] <Riddell> ping Nightrose, nixternal, yuriy
[22:58]  * Nightrose popups
[22:58] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:58] <Xand3r> what is with apachelogger
[22:59] <Nightrose> he seems to be afk
[22:59] <Nightrose> probably sleeping already
[22:59] <Nightrose> yea offline in jabber as well
[22:59] <Tm_T> hi hi kids
[23:00] <Nightrose> heya Tm_T :)
[23:01] <Riddell> Good Evening Friends
[23:01] <Riddell> it seems JontheEchidna
[23:01] <Riddell> isn't here
[23:02] <Riddell> smarter: want to introduce your item?
[23:03] <smarter> okay ;)
[23:03] <smarter> I think we should package everything using bazaar
[23:03] <smarter> (everything = kde4 stuff)
[23:03] <Riddell> well, we tried that a while ago
[23:03] <Riddell> and it didn't work because it's extra hassle
[23:04] <Riddell> but, good news!
[23:04] <Riddell> james_w is working on making it no extra hassle
[23:04] <smarter> what's the extra hassle?
[23:04] <smarter> bzr-builddeb is really handy
[23:04] <Riddell> I've looked at the bzr-builddeb docs and never managed to work out what it does
[23:04] <Riddell> maybe we should have a tutorial sometime
[23:04] <smarter> I can make a howto if you want
[23:05] <smarter> yep
[23:05] <smarter> I use it for all my packaging
[23:05] <Nightrose> smarter: can you explain a little what it does?
[23:05] <smarter> there's many way to use it, let's assume we use the "merge" mode, where we only package the debian/ dir
[23:05] <smarter> bzr bd will download the orig.tar.gz using some magics, and built it for you
[23:06] <smarter> so to see if a new version work with your packaging, you just have to do dch -i
[23:06] <smarter> (magics = trying file in ../tarballs, then debian/watch, then apt-get source)
[23:07] <smarter> and bzr diff is helpful to see what changed between ubuntuX and ubuntuY, useful for backports
[23:08] <smarter> if you need to have access to the tarball, you can use bzr bd-do, which unpack the tarball, copy the debian and copy only changes made to the debian dir when you exit
[23:08] <smarter> useful for patching
[23:08] <yuriy> evening (wow it's 6 already!)
[23:08] <smarter> evening yuriy
[23:08] <Nightrose> smarter: how hard is it for people who are new to packaging?
[23:09] <Nightrose> on a scale of 1 to 10
[23:09] <smarter> hmm, 4? (:
[23:09] <Tm_T> perhaps compared to "normal way" ?
[23:09] <Nightrose> ;-) ok
[23:09] <smarter> we just need a good howto(and I'm writing one :P)
[23:10] <yuriy> smarter: perhaps add it to the packaging guide?
[23:10] <smarter> yuriy: probably
[23:10] <yuriy> on that note, the kde packaging wiki pages probably need some updating too
[23:10] <smarter> Tm_T: not sure, I think it's easier
[23:11] <vorian> smarter: it's another step though, you still need to know how to package
[23:12] <smarter> other useful stuff you can do with bzr: "bzr diff" will show the differences between the last commit and your changes, it's handy if you want to write good debian/changelog
[23:12] <Nightrose> smarter: once you finished it feel free to poke me to have a look at it from a packaging-noob POV ;-)
[23:12] <vorian> i think it would be very handy on the core packages
[23:12] <smarter> Nightrose: If i put it at the end of the PackagingGuide, I'll assume people now a bit about packaging :P
[23:13] <smarter> s/now/know§
[23:14] <Nightrose> smarter: sure
[23:14] <Nightrose> still imagine someone new to packaging
[23:14] <Nightrose> he reads the packaging guide from start to end
[23:14] <Nightrose> that doesn't necessarily make him a perfect packager does it ;-)
[23:14] <smarter> yep :P
[23:15] <Riddell> I'll look forward to the howto, I guess I'll need to try it to see if it's as easy as apt-get source, edit, dput
[23:15] <Riddell> but as I say, james_w is working on makeing it all integrate in a transparent way
[23:16] <kwwii> sorry for missing the beginning of the meeting
[23:16] <smarter> it's a bit harder when you start, but when you get used to it you'll not want to use anything else :P
[23:16] <smarter> so, does anyone see any disadvantage of bzr?
[23:16] <smarter> s/bzr/using bzr for packaging/ even
[23:16] <Riddell> still potentially extra hassle
[23:17] <Tm_T> kwwii: welcome and hi son :)
[23:17] <seele> Tm_T: i think he's back from a netsplit
[23:17] <Tm_T> seele: yes, son :)
[23:17] <vorian> smarter: it's not local?
[23:17] <smarter> (yay for netsplit in the middle of a meeting)
[23:17] <smarter> vorian: what is not local?
[23:17] <kwwii> Tm_T: thanks, and no it was not a netsplit, it was me coming back by loging back into the server
[23:18] <kwwii> anyway, full steam ahead
[23:18] <Riddell> I know seb128 from the gnome team has tried it and found it all extra hassle
[23:18] <smarter> well, I'm using it for all my packages and have yet to see that extra hassle :P
[23:18] <Riddell> talking about packaging, cdbs might momentarily now so kde4.mk should be part of cdbs
[23:18] <smarter> (https://code.launchpad.net/~smarter)
[23:19] <kwwii> Riddell: for people like myself using just bzr is pretty nice
[23:19] <smarter> Medibuntu already use it for all packages
[23:19] <Riddell> smarter: I'll try it when you write the howto and consider it from there :)
[23:19] <kwwii> but I know that seb doesn't like it...he sees it as extra work I think
[23:19] <smarter> okay
[23:20] <Riddell> yuriy: apport?
[23:21] <yuriy> yep
[23:21] <yuriy> forgot link: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2008-June/002336.html
[23:22] <yuriy> I think it would be good to switch off the KDE crash handler so we get better crash reports from apport
[23:23] <yuriy> in general the crash reports would then have to be forwarded upstream, but that is the same as with bugs filed now
[23:23] <Riddell> I think that's just a case of removing drkonqi from kdebase-runtime
[23:23] <smarter> what's "automatic retracing"?
[23:23] <yuriy> the reports would be better but there would be more of them and they are private by default
[23:24] <Riddell> smarter: the backtrace gets uploaded to launchpad bugs which can download the debugging symbols and fill in all the gaps automatically
[23:24] <yuriy> smarter: apport uploads the full core dump, then the servers can use that to create a new backtrace with debugging symbols, regardless of whether the trace uploaded by the user was any good
[23:24] <smarter> wow, cool
[23:24] <Riddell> yuriy says it better :)
[23:25] <yuriy> so I think Riddell answered the how. so concerns are: Do we have the manpower? Do people know how to deal with apport reports? (smarter, txwikinger?)
[23:26] <Riddell> yuriy: actually I just tried it and it doesn't seem to work
[23:26] <Nightrose> yuriy: how many people triage private kde bugs?
[23:26] <Nightrose> ie: make them public when needed
[23:26] <yuriy> Nightrose: I don't know of any private kde bugs right now
[23:28] <Nightrose> ok then who do you see doing it if there are any after turning on apport
[23:28] <yuriy> Riddell: doesn't work to disable the crash handler?
[23:28] <Nightrose> i can imagine smarter, txwikinger, apachelogger and you
[23:28] <Nightrose> who else?
[23:28] <Riddell> yuriy: actually I can't get it to work on non-KDE apps
[23:29] <Riddell> yuriy: well, let's talk to pitti and work out what needs done to get it working
[23:29] <yuriy> Riddell: enabled in /etc/default/apport?
[23:30] <yuriy> Nightrose: that's primarily it
[23:30] <Nightrose> *nod*
[23:30] <Riddell> yuriy: it was not
[23:31] <Riddell> yuriy: still doesn't want to work for me, using kill -SEGV on gnome-terminal
[23:31] <yuriy> Riddell: will have to talk to pitti then. I don't know if maybe something's changed with that..
[23:31] <JontheEchidna> back
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> how much did I miss?
[23:32]  * JontheEchidna doesn't get why he had to go mulch shopping in the first place
[23:32] <Nightrose> wb JontheEchidna
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> thx
[23:32] <Riddell> yuriy: yep, let's get it turned on and see how that works in terms of triage after a while
[23:32] <yuriy> Riddell: iirc it's also somehow connected with adept-notifier?
[23:32] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: packaging in bzr and enabeling apport for kde apps
[23:32] <Riddell> yuriy: yes, it looks out for things appearing in /var/crash and promps you to start apport-qt
[23:32] <yuriy> Riddell: OK. last question we can discuss later
[23:33] <Riddell> so, let's move on to...
[23:33] <Riddell> JontheEchidna!
[23:33] <JontheEchidna> reporting!
[23:33] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: who are you and why do you want to be a member?
[23:33] <JontheEchidna> Ok
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> *badump*
[23:34] <Tm_T> Nightrose: about triaging, I might be available at some point
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> My name is Jonathan Thomas
[23:34] <Nightrose> Tm_T: nice :)
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> I am a 16 (almost 17) year old Linux/KDE enthusiast
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> I would like to contribute to Kubuntu on a regular basis, plus being a member allows access to the kde4 ppa, \o/
[23:35] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: have your parents seen http://xkcd.com/456/
[23:35] <seele> yuriy: lol
[23:35] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: my dad may have
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> since he's a geek too
[23:36] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you seem to have an interest in plasma, do you think it's the future of the desktop?
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> yup!
[23:37] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: hmm, how would you contribute to Kubuntu? as in, what's your itch?
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> Well, I have been working on packaging as of late
[23:37] <Riddell> his wiki page is  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Jonathan265
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> Though I also lurk regularly in #kubuntu-kde4 for user support
[23:37] <kwwii> hoorah for the crazy guy! :p
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> yeah, just read that^
[23:37] <seele> JontheEchidna: what is something you would want change in the current desktop?
[23:37] <Tm_T> Riddell: oh, danke sehr :)
[23:38] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: support is <3
[23:38] <JontheEchidna> seele: This is my vision for Intrepid: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidDesktopDefaults
[23:38] <jussi01> I would Like to give a big +1 for JontheEchidna - he has been a great help in #kubuntu-kde4 as well as I have seen him active in other places also. :)
[23:38] <Nightrose> I like the plasma packaging
[23:39] <Nightrose> and he has been flooding my inbox with bugmail
[23:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: have you looked at the Lancelot menu?
[23:39] <vorian> I'll cheer for JontheEchidna!
[23:39] <seele> JontheEchidna: so you probably have some input for the default plasmoids :)
[23:39]  * Tm_T hugs jussi01
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I've been keeping tabs on the author's blog
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> I'll reserve an opinion on it for when I actually test it
[23:40] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: might be interesting to have a package of it (probably not in the archive until it's stable, but just so people can have a look)
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> Raptor looks pretty cool too but it's a bit vaporwareish, unfortunately
[23:40]  * seele wants a krunner plasmoid *hint*
[23:41]  * Nightrose wants http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Flickr+Plasmoid?content=83246  *hint* :P
[23:41] <vorian> hehe
[23:41] <JontheEchidna> lol
[23:41] <Riddell> any more questions for JontheEchidna?
[23:41] <seele> Nightrose: hehe
[23:41] <vorian> plus, he's a ninja
[23:41] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: what was the reaction to kde 4.1 in #kubuntu-kde4
[23:41] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: one question, can I rely on you when my bones are aching with pyqt4 ?
[23:41] <seele> Nightrose: doesn't that already exist?
[23:42] <Nightrose> seele: ?
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> Tm_T: I'm still a bit fresh with pyqt, but I'll see what I can do
[23:42] <Nightrose> the plasmoid?
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> I can code apps and stuff
[23:42] <Nightrose> there is a picture plasmoid
[23:42] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: how much are you planning on working on kubuntu stuff during the school year?
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> but I still need experience
[23:42] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: thanks son :)
[23:42] <Nightrose> but the flickr one displays flickr photos
[23:42] <seele> Nightrose: there is a flickr plasmoid in ghns
[23:42] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: school time will obviously limit how much I can contribute
[23:42] <Nightrose> seele: that is probably the same one then
[23:43] <Nightrose> but not packaged
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> I won't be able to do irc all day
[23:43] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: good :)
[23:43] <seele> it's not in extragear?  or whatever extragear turned in to?
[23:43] <seele> oh, no, nevermind.. hns
[23:43]  * seele cooked with wine tonight
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> but I am homeschooled ;-)
[23:44] <Nightrose> ;-)
[23:44]  * Nightrose feels ignored and points to her question above :P
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> which question was that?
[23:44] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: what was the reaction to kde 4.1 in #kubuntu-kde4
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> oh
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> from what I gathered
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> upgrades from rc1 went much smoother
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> people like to whine about how much the systray sucks
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> but overall the reaction is good
[23:45] <Nightrose> hehe yea
[23:45] <Nightrose> seen that
[23:45] <Nightrose> ok cool
[23:45] <Nightrose> big +1 from me
[23:45] <stdin> people just like to whine.
[23:46] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: hmm, what's biggest whine about systray?
[23:46] <yuriy> big +1 from me too. lots of great work on every front, JontheEchidna
[23:46] <JontheEchidna> Tm_T: it looks like ass with transparent panels
[23:46] <seele> +1
[23:46] <Riddell> +1 for packaging plasma love
[23:46] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: ah, irrelevant mostly, I guess
[23:46] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: i expect you to bribe me with http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Flickr+Plasmoid?content=83246 ;-)
[23:46] <claydoh> +1 of course
[23:46] <Riddell> looking forward to more plasma and non-plasma packages :)
[23:46] <seele> Nightrose: no way, i'm first
[23:46] <Tm_T> +1 from me, from old heart of mine
[23:46] <Nightrose> hehe
[23:46] <seele> JontheEchidna: krunner plasmoid!
[23:46] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose, Riddell: will do ;-)
[23:47] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: welcome to membership
[23:47] <stdin> +1 for previous contributions
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> :)
[23:47] <vorian> yay JontheEchidna !!!!
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> seele: I haven't seen that one
[23:47] <Nightrose> congratulations JontheEchidna
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> coolness
[23:47] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: welcome :)
[23:48] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: so, default plasmoids?
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> right
[23:48] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: congrats. be sure to add your blog to planet, saw some nice screenshots on there
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> I installed Intrepid over the weekend
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> and I saw that kdeplasma-addons was included by default
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> that's cool
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> but I'd like to go beyond the default KDE settings for Intrepid
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> Bring back the best of our customized KDE3 desktop where possible
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> See: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidDesktopDefaults
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> For that to be fully implemented it would require to also have plasmoid-quickaccess installed by default
[23:50] <smarter> last time I tried plasmoid-quickaccess it did not work at all
[23:51] <JontheEchidna> smarter: plasma has been breaking binary compat in the prerelease cycle pretty consistently
[23:51] <seele> is it just kubuntu or does firefox3 look ugly in all kde4?
[23:51] <JontheEchidna> seele: requires gtk-qt-engine-kde4 to look presentable
[23:51] <Tm_T> seele: you mean "no gtk engine looking good" ?
[23:51] <Tm_T> ^
[23:51] <Riddell> smarter: seems to work here
[23:52] <seele> i guess?  why wasn't that installed as a dependency?
[23:52] <Nightrose> seele: gtk-qt-engine-kde4 (i think) and apachelogger's theme - looks _very_ sweet here
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> seele: at the moment it's quite buggy, especially wiht firefox3
[23:52] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: and when will  gtk-qt-engine-kde4 be finished?
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> Wubbbi: no clue, I'm not maintaining it :P
[23:53] <Wubbbi> Riddell does right?
[23:53] <yuriy> no
[23:53] <yuriy> Wubbbi: I'll get you the link to the upstream dev site later
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> by the way, free software is never "finished" :P
[23:53] <Wubbbi> yuriy: ok
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> Anyway, any comments on my proposed default desktop?
[23:54] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: I know :/ my kio-sysinfo will never finish too.
[23:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I like it
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> I have concocted a plasma-appletsrc for kubuntu-defaults that implements everything except the quickaccess since it's not default yet
[23:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I'm curious how useful quickaccess is
[23:55] <yuriy> what is quickaccess exactly?
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> it's sorta like a folderview for the panel
[23:55] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: any rationale for moving 3 and 4 to the right?
[23:55] <yuriy> is it like quicklauncher or like the system menu?
[23:55] <Nightrose> (/me has 3 and 4 on the right side as well)
[23:55] <Nightrose> not that that matters really
[23:56] <Wubbbi> smarter: ahhh right. I have another tought about kio-sysinfo Icons. The Icons are Oxygen right? right! so isnt it possible to use the system Icons. I mean to make a link, that these programm have to use these Icons, which are installed at the system.
[23:56] <smarter> it's the same thing we used in KDE3 for the little amarok/kopete/konqueror/etc icons on the panel, no?
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: that was sorta personal opinion, not a biggie
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> smarter: that's quicklaunch
[23:56] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: I think the device notifier should be on the right, it has similar functionality to things in the system tray
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> yeah, you have a point there
[23:56] <smarter> Wubbbi: I've said to you 3 or 4 times, but chht, we're in the middle of a meeting :P
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> but there was also that thing in kde3 next to the kmenu
[23:56] <Wubbbi> JontheEchidna: whats about my Teacooker? I Love tea :/
[23:57] <smarter> Wubbbi: *I've said that
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> that when clicked gave a list of places to go to
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> and the device notifier is sorta simlar to that too
[23:57] <seele> i would also include the desktop icon.  the big point of kde4 is the plasma desktop and without a desktop icon you have to minimize all your apps
[23:57] <Wubbbi> smarter: who? what? meeting? what?
[23:57] <smarter> Wubbbi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[23:57] <Nightrose> seele: there is also a "show dashboard" plasmoid
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> seele: you mean the show desktop widget?
[23:58] <yuriy> seele: or ctrl-f12
[23:58] <seele> Nightrose: what does that do?  i couldnt figure it out
[23:58] <seele> JontheEchidna: yeah
[23:58] <seele> yuriy: :P
[23:58] <Nightrose> seele: it shows the dashboard on top of the open windows
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> cryptic undiscoverable shortcuts ftw!
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> ctrl alt fnc 6 F11
[23:58] <Wubbbi> smarter: uhhhhhhhhhhh ... I didn't know ... omg xD
[23:58] <seele> Nightrose: but then its only useful in a panel
[23:59] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: and kate steals half of them
[23:59] <Nightrose> seele: it is better than "minimize windows" imho since it keeps your windows untouched
[23:59] <Nightrose> seele: that is where i have it ;-)
[23:59] <seele> Nightrose: i put it on my desktop and kept on clicking it -- probably why i couldnt figure out what it did
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> so, do we want show dashboard, show desktop, or both?
[23:59]  * seele thinks the add widgets dialog needs some tooltips or better descriptions..
[23:59] <Nightrose> seele: yea probably - give it a try in the pannel