| _steven_ | I am not able to successfully connect to bazaar.launchpad.net either through sftp or ssh when pushing a branch or just connecting directly | 01:19 |
|---|---|---|
| _steven_ | any ideas? | 01:19 |
| kiko | _steven_, really? tell me more. or hmm let me try first! | 01:19 |
| _steven_ | I should be able to ssh steven-sheehy@bazaar.launchpad.net, right? | 01:20 |
| kiko | no | 01:20 |
| kiko | our bazaar codehost isn't really an SSH service | 01:21 |
| _steven_ | ok, so sftp probably doesn't work that way either | 01:21 |
| kiko | _steven_, tell me what you are trying to do via the bzr client? | 01:21 |
| _steven_ | bzr push | 01:22 |
| kiko | the exact commandline :) | 01:22 |
| _steven_ | bzr push bzr+ssh://steven-sheehy@bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven-sheehy/linuxdcpp/trunk | 01:23 |
| _steven_ | that command times out for me | 01:23 |
| kiko | _steven_, first question is whether it's ever worked. | 01:23 |
| _steven_ | no | 01:23 |
| kiko | okay. can you ping bazaar.launchpad.net? | 01:23 |
| _steven_ | yes | 01:24 |
| kiko | and can you bzr branch lp:linuxdcpp? | 01:24 |
| thumper | _steven_: what version of bzr are you using? and on which platform? | 01:24 |
| _steven_ | 1.3.1 on hardy | 01:25 |
| spiv | _steven_: you can do "sftp bazaar.launchpad.net", it's just "ssh ..." that fails because you can't get a shell on that host. | 01:25 |
| thumper | _steven_: `bzr lp-login` output? | 01:25 |
| _steven_ | I've been able to bzr branch lp:linuxdcpp previously | 01:26 |
| spiv | _steven_: so "sftp -v bazaar.launchpad.net" may help you diagnose the problem | 01:26 |
| _steven_ | bzr lp-login is steven-sheehy | 01:26 |
| _steven_ | right now bzr branch lp:linuxdcpp is either really slow or not working | 01:27 |
| thumper | _steven_: it doesn't give the best feedback in the world | 01:27 |
| thumper | _steven_: it is probably working | 01:27 |
| _steven_ | sftp -vv steven-sheehy@bazaar.launchpad.net gets past "Authentication succeeded (publickey)." and hangs at "debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 131072 rmax 32768" | 01:29 |
| spiv | _steven_: hmm, it's very shortly after that point that I get an (sftp) prompt where I can type "ls", etc. | 01:30 |
| spiv | _steven_: as in, debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 131072 rmax 32768 | 01:30 |
| spiv | debug2: Remote version: 3 | 01:30 |
| spiv | sftp> | 01:30 |
| spiv | Anyway, that shows that you're authenticating to bazaar.launchpad.net ok. | 01:31 |
| _steven_ | so any ideas? | 01:32 |
| spiv | Try adding -Dhpss to your bzr command, i.e. running "bzr -Dhpss push bzr+ssh://..." | 01:33 |
| spiv | Then watch ~/.bzr.log | 01:33 |
| _steven_ | now I get connection timed out when I run bzr branch lp:linuxdcpp | 01:35 |
| _steven_ | ok, I'll try that | 01:35 |
| spiv | That will show some details of the bzr+ssh conversation. Feel free to pastebin the log. | 01:37 |
| spiv | _steven_: FWIW, everything seems to be working normally for me as far as I can tell | 01:39 |
| spiv | _steven_: are you doing a push atm? | 01:40 |
| _steven_ | yes, looks like it's going to timeout again | 01:40 |
| spiv | _steven_: huh, that's weird. | 01:40 |
| spiv | _steven_: do you have anything unusual in your ~/.ssh/config ? | 01:40 |
| _steven_ | don't have a config file | 01:41 |
| spiv | (I don't see any sign on the server that you've started a smart server session) | 01:41 |
| spiv | Hmm. And plain sftp hung for you. | 01:41 |
| spiv | That's sounding like a weird network problem, maybe? | 01:42 |
| _steven_ | is there anything I need to do to setup beforehand? | 01:42 |
| _steven_ | the key on my launchpad site matches the one in my id_rsa.pub | 01:42 |
| spiv | Yeah, and the key works. | 01:42 |
| spiv | Because you got "Authentication succeeded (publickey)" from sftp -vv | 01:42 |
| _steven_ | I've tried pushing with sftp to with no luck | 01:43 |
| spiv | At this point I'd be trying tcpdump (or wireshark), I think :( | 01:43 |
| _steven_ | last thing in .bzr.log is 0.179 ssh implementation is OpenSSH | 01:43 |
| spiv | I've seen MTU problems cause SSH connections to hang mysteriously. | 01:43 |
| spiv | Right, so it's not successfully establishing an SSH session either, just like sftp. | 01:44 |
| spiv | Definitely sounding like a network issue. Do you know how to use tcpdump or wireshark? :) | 01:45 |
| _steven_ | kind of | 01:45 |
| spiv | Also, if you have an SSH account somewhere else, see if you can sftp to that host (or even bzr push sftp://that-host/...) | 01:45 |
| spiv | "kind of" is probably good enough. :) I think we're just interested in something obviously strange like the connection hanging because your side sends a packet but never gets an ACK, for instance. | 01:47 |
| spiv | I am just stabbing in dark, though. | 01:47 |
| spiv | All I can really say for sure is that our systems seem to be working normally, and I can use bazaar.launchpad.net just fine from my laptop here in Sydney, so it seems likely to be something strange on your end. | 01:49 |
| _steven_ | thanks for all the help everyone :) | 02:19 |
| kiko | _steven_, did it work? :) | 02:20 |
| kiko | hey emgent! | 02:20 |
| _steven_ | kiko: yeah, I was using wireless so I hooked up ethernet from my router and it worked | 02:21 |
| emgent | hello kiko :) | 02:22 |
| spm | _steven_: funky firewall rules on the wireless interface vs wired perhaps? | 02:22 |
| kiko | _steven_, cool. I was a bit concerned at first because we had just rolled out new code for 2.0 and I don't like problems popping up 5 minutes after we roll out! | 02:23 |
| kiko | emgent, how do you like https://edge.launchpad.net/ now? :) | 02:23 |
| kiko | not so much it sounds! | 02:27 |
| jamesh | looks pretty | 02:40 |
| kiko | jamesh :) | 02:44 |
| jamesh | although the "this site is running pre-release code" bar looks a bit out of place | 02:44 |
| jamesh | on https://launchpad.net, the tabs look more connected to the breadcrumbs | 02:45 |
| kiko | jamesh, yeah, mpt chided me for doing that. But I hated the floating bar at the top.. hopefully there's another solution which we can produce. | 02:45 |
| jamesh | kiko: attach it to the top of the screen instead of making it float? | 02:46 |
| kiko | jamesh, think it'd look okay? | 02:46 |
| jamesh | kiko: I don't think it'd look any worse than what we had before | 02:46 |
| jamesh | and I'm not sure where else to put such a message | 02:46 |
| kiko | jamesh, I want BETTER!! | 02:47 |
| jamesh | It doesn't necessarily need to be a dark grey bar with white text either | 02:47 |
| jamesh | we could use something more subtle ... | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | ScottK: ah, i was *wondering* why i was getting mail about a bzr branch i'd never heard of before. gotta love LP bugs. | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | or features. | 02:47 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: which recent events? | 02:48 |
| Hobbsee | jamesh: funny, i liked that bar there. it actually made the top panel look more asthetically pleasing. | 02:49 |
| _steven_ | is it possible to push a branch to a project and not have to store it in your user area? | 03:03 |
| _steven_ | like have it stored at https://code.launchpad.net/~linuxdcpp/linuxdcpp/trunk vs https://code.launchpad.net/~steven-sheehy/linuxdcpp/trunk | 03:05 |
| persia | _steven_: Not really, although some teams will have team branches as the product branch trunk. | 03:06 |
| kiko | _steven_, well, one thing to point out is /~linuxdcpp is a team. | 03:10 |
| kiko | _steven_, (note the leading ~) | 03:10 |
| kiko | _steven_, I would assume when reading that URL that it's an official branch for that project. is that right? | 03:11 |
| kiko | i.e. maintained by the project core team | 03:11 |
| _steven_ | kiko: it's not a real link, just an example | 03:12 |
| kiko | _steven_, sure. but did you understand my point? you can create a team called linuxdcpp and hand the branch over to the team. | 03:13 |
| _steven_ | yeah, just wondering why we can't store the branch in the project | 03:13 |
| kiko | _steven_, because branches are tied to people always -- it makes it clear who owns it (which is, in reality, who can commit to it) | 03:14 |
| kiko | _steven_, note that you can use lp:linuxdcpp to pull and push the official branch, so the long URL is only visible to people using specific branches | 03:14 |
| wgrant | Hobbsee: DNS vulnerabilities. | 03:14 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: ah, yes. | 03:15 |
| _steven_ | kiko: ok, got it now. makes sense | 03:16 |
| kiko | cool | 03:16 |
| wgrant | kiko: On a related note, is there a way ~ubuntu-dev can avoid being spammed by branch merge proposals? | 03:18 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: is there a mail address set for it? | 03:19 |
| kiko | wgrant, I was going to bring that up with thumper -- but you can too | 03:19 |
| Hobbsee | i'm sure i poked and prodded enough to get addresses set for all three... | 03:19 |
| kiko | and should | 03:19 |
| wgrant | Hobbsee: No, but we don't want one AFAIK. | 03:19 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: why not? | 03:19 |
| wgrant | Then the list will get spammed. | 03:19 |
| thumper | ?? | 03:19 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: only if you point it at the list. | 03:19 |
| thumper | wgrant: which branch? | 03:19 |
| thumper | wgrant: or proposal | 03:19 |
| wgrant | I think the concept of commiter == reviewer is a bit wrong. | 03:19 |
| wgrant | thumper: ~jazzva/firefox-extensions/firefox-sage.ubuntu | 03:20 |
| thumper | wgrant: I'm not sure where you get the idea that "committer == reviewer" | 03:20 |
| wgrant | thumper: Well, we're all spammed when somebody proposes a branch for reviewing. | 03:20 |
| wgrant | thumper: (we being people with commit rights) | 03:21 |
| thumper | wgrant: if you don't want the emails, then edit the branch subscription for the ubuntu development team to not get code review emails | 03:21 |
| thumper | wgrant: the default behaviour is (in my opinion) the right way | 03:22 |
| thumper | wgrant: most people want to know if someone is suggesting an update or fix | 03:22 |
| persia | thumper: By "most people" do you mean the set of committers, or the primary set of authors? | 03:22 |
| * rockstar is in most people | 03:23 | |
| persia | Consider the case where you have a small team that does most of the work (and wants to see all the proposed merges), and a larger team who can commit for integration purposes. | 03:23 |
| thumper | persia: I mean the vast majority of branch owners (which are individuals) | 03:23 |
| wgrant | Wasn't there a distinction between authors and owners before? | 03:23 |
| wgrant | And I see now that we are indeed subscribed - it's not implicit from owning it. | 03:23 |
| thumper | wgrant: that was somewhat crack | 03:23 |
| kiko | heh | 03:24 |
| wgrant | Not for our cases. | 03:24 |
| thumper | wgrant: it was a specific design decision not to have implicit email | 03:24 |
| persia | thumper: Why? As long as we aren't talking about individuals, they are often different. Restricting to individuals doesn't feel very collaborative. | 03:24 |
| wgrant | thumper: Right, that makes sense, or there'd be no escape for us. | 03:25 |
| rockstar | persia, how is it restricting? | 03:25 |
| persia | rockstar: restricting the examined set of use cases | 03:25 |
| thumper | persia: but if you have a team branch, and the team is subscribed, then the team is notified | 03:26 |
| thumper | persia: I don't get your point | 03:26 |
| rockstar | +1 thumper | 03:26 |
| thumper | persia: which is wgrant's problem | 03:26 |
| persia | thumper: Except that the team that can commit may not be identical to the team that is the primary driver. | 03:26 |
| wgrant | Correct. | 03:26 |
| wgrant | ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-mozillateam in this case. | 03:26 |
| thumper | persia: right, but the team that can commit is normally interested in what is landing | 03:26 |
| wgrant | Normally. | 03:26 |
| wgrant | But again you forget that we are a distro. | 03:26 |
| wgrant | We are big. | 03:26 |
| wgrant | We are not normal. | 03:26 |
| persia | thumper: What is landing, yes, but not what is proposed. | 03:26 |
| persia | Well, I'd expect to see the same for e.g. GNOME. Any sufficiently large project. | 03:27 |
| thumper | my response then is "why does the branch allow commits from people who aren't interested in it?" | 03:27 |
| wgrant | thumper: Because that's how distros like Ubuntu work. | 03:28 |
| wgrant | thumper: I might need to change a dependency, but not want to watch the branch closely. | 03:28 |
| persia | thumper: You are conflating "interest in the current state of the branch" with "interest in proposed changes to the branch". | 03:28 |
| mwhudson | i suspect this conversation is a bit over-specific | 03:28 |
| persia | mwhudson: Why so? Any large project has the same issues. Distros are one example, but one could say the same for e.g. KDE. | 03:29 |
| wgrant | And Ubuntu isn't a minor user of LP... | 03:29 |
| mwhudson | persia: just in that we're talking in terms of what launchpad does now | 03:29 |
| thumper | if the distro branches are *special* then they should have special subscriptions | 03:29 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: sure, but they're going for projects. the size thing is irrelevant. | 03:29 |
| rockstar | persia, distros work just a bit differently than large, single projects. | 03:29 |
| thumper | so the larger team gets commit emails | 03:29 |
| persia | thumper: But it's not just distros. Any large project will have the same issue | 03:30 |
| mwhudson | Hobbsee: for heavens sake | 03:30 |
| thumper | and the smaller team gets the proposals | 03:30 |
| wgrant | Hobbsee: I made that point earlier. | 03:30 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: ah | 03:30 |
| persia | rockstar: Yes, but both have different sets of interest within the project. | 03:30 |
| persia | s/different/differing/ | 03:31 |
| Hobbsee | persia: presumably the large project has a responsibility to operate around launchpad's limitations, then. | 03:31 |
| rockstar | Unfortunately, the default is not specific to the distro. | 03:31 |
| thumper | if someone proposes a merge, it is a bug to have no-one notified | 03:31 |
| persia | Hobbsee: That's not a useful argument from the point of view of defining how behaviour should be defined. | 03:31 |
| thumper | what we did seemed like a sensible default | 03:31 |
| thumper | however it is just a default | 03:32 |
| thumper | if it doesn't work for you | 03:32 |
| thumper | you can update it | 03:32 |
| persia | thumper: can it be changed on a per-branch basis, rather than a per-team basis? | 03:32 |
| thumper | persia: all are on a per-branch basis | 03:32 |
| thumper | with source package branches we may have a different default | 03:32 |
| wgrant | Are we going to have source package branches soon? | 03:32 |
| thumper | distro branches are different to upstream branches | 03:32 |
| rockstar | Hobbsee, we are quite mindful of the issues with the distro, and are trying to find ways of making things easier for you. | 03:32 |
| thumper | wgrant: define soon? | 03:33 |
| jml | wgrant: it's a very high priority for us | 03:33 |
| thumper | wgrant: we are planning to do these before the end of the year | 03:33 |
| wgrant | thumper: LP soon... two years seems to be about right. | 03:33 |
| persia | thumper: Just to make sure, it will be possible to have separate sets of people notified for commits to trunk vs. proposals? | 03:33 |
| wgrant | Aha, that's good. | 03:33 |
| jml | wgrant: Mark will skin us if it takes two years ;) | 03:33 |
| thumper | persia: yes it is right now | 03:33 |
| wgrant | persia: This seems to be a new feature - I hadn't noticed it before, but it's there now. | 03:33 |
| persia | thumper: Ah. My misunderstanding then. My apologies: I hadn't seen that. | 03:33 |
| thumper | wgrant: the feature has been there for quite some time | 03:33 |
| Hobbsee | rockstar: ah. I hope for the distro-related soyuz stuff to get implemented, so more community members can deal with integral parts of the distro, then. | 03:34 |
| Hobbsee | hopefully, that will be distro-agnostic, to be useful for any other distros that join. | 03:35 |
| rockstar | Hobbsee, unfortunately, I cannot comment on that. I just wanted to make sure you understood that the distro specific stuff is a priority for us. | 03:35 |
| thumper | we really do want both "upstream projects" and "disto" use of the LP code features to work for them (easily) | 03:35 |
| thumper | s/disto/distro/ | 03:36 |
| Hobbsee | rockstar: right. | 03:36 |
| Hobbsee | rockstar: full credit for not breaking the package accepting stuff, this ubuntu release, though. | 03:36 |
| Hobbsee | (thanks!) | 03:36 |
| rockstar | Hobbsee, I cannot take credit for that either. :) | 03:37 |
| mwhudson | which branches does ~ubuntu-dev own currently? | 03:37 |
| Hobbsee | rockstar: which bit do you do? QA? | 03:37 |
| rockstar | Code. | 03:37 |
| Hobbsee | ahhh | 03:37 |
| wgrant | mwhudson: Good to know it's not only the users who can't discover the UI. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev, perhaps? | 03:38 |
| mwhudson | (in particular, would they be source package branches if such things existed?) | 03:38 |
| mwhudson | wgrant: i guess i didn't phrase that right | 03:38 |
| wgrant | mwhudson: THey would be. | 03:39 |
| wgrant | Except maybe a couple. | 03:39 |
| mwhudson | wgrant: good to know | 03:39 |
| persia | wgrant: Which wouldn't be source package branches? Many of the native packages have dedicated teams, and encouraging that practice seems appropriate in many cases. | 03:40 |
| jml | so, just to be clear, they are owned by ~ubuntu-dev because everyone in ~ubuntu-dev should be allowed to commit to them? | 03:40 |
| wgrant | jml: Correct. | 03:40 |
| wgrant | persia: We have some upstream branches because upstream isn't using LP. | 03:40 |
| jml | wgrant: that surprises me a little | 03:40 |
| persia | wgrant: Ah, right. | 03:40 |
| wgrant | jml: Why? | 03:41 |
| wgrant | jml: That's how Ubuntu works. | 03:41 |
| persia | jml: Everyone in ~ubuntu-dev can commit to every package in universe, much as everyone in ~ubuntu-core-dev can commit to every package in Main. | 03:41 |
| jml | wgrant: I guess I would have, in my ignorance, expected that Ubuntu would follow the principle of least privilege. | 03:42 |
| persia | jml: It does. | 03:42 |
| wgrant | jml: We have too little manpower to restrict it any more. | 03:42 |
| skavez | how do you delete a project? | 03:42 |
| wgrant | We have two levels of privileges, though Soyuz does support more now. | 03:43 |
| Hobbsee | jml: obviously, ~ubuntu-dev could be a member of ~mozillateam | 03:43 |
| Hobbsee | whether that's a good, scalable solution, is a good question | 03:43 |
| jml | skavez: you have to contact a Launchpad admin. Best thing to do is ask a question on the launchpad project | 03:43 |
| persia | Hobbsee: Hrm? Do you mean a member of ~ubuntu-dev, or the team? | 03:43 |
| skavez | jml: thanks | 03:43 |
| jml | Hobbsee: I'm missing something... | 03:43 |
| Hobbsee | persia: the team. | 03:43 |
| Hobbsee | wait, that wouldn't stop the mail problem. | 03:43 |
| jml | wgrant: I don't quite get how the two are related | 03:44 |
| jml | wgrant: manpower and more granular privileges, that is | 03:44 |
| persia | Hobbsee: It would actually exacerbate it. | 03:44 |
| wgrant | jml: We have a small number of people, many of whom have a small amount of time. | 03:44 |
| Hobbsee | jml: ~mozillateam: team actually cares about the branch stuff, and wants to know about every update. ~ubuntu-dev: team that needs to commit occasionally, but doesn't want to know more than they have to | 03:44 |
| wgrant | jml: Restricting privileges could well limit the number of people with available time to zero. Which is bad. | 03:44 |
| Hobbsee | if that helps | 03:44 |
| Hobbsee | persia: yeah, i just thought of that. | 03:45 |
| persia | Not just time, but vertical applications: if someone wants to e.g. update all the packages that depend on an obsolete library, that is work worth doing even if that person has not previously worked on those packages. | 03:45 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: why doesn't ~ubuntu-dev just branch any changes, and ~mozillateam merge them across into the main branch? | 03:45 |
| wgrant | Hobbsee: That would block on ~mozillateam, because one shouldn't upload before it's merged. | 03:46 |
| Hobbsee | hmm. | 03:46 |
| jml | wgrant: so, what I was thinking of is having a team like ~python-motu-maintainers, that team could own the package branches for python packages in universe, and then people who want to contribute just ask to be members of that team | 03:46 |
| jml | wgrant: I'm not suggesting this exactly, just trying to understand the situation more | 03:47 |
| wgrant | jml: And then somebody comes along, needs to do 600 rebuilds, and swears violently at having to join 300 teams. | 03:48 |
| jml | wgrant: you need to edit a branch to do a rebuild? | 03:49 |
| Hobbsee | wgrant: with some restricted ones, so they're blocked on getting accepted. | 03:49 |
| wgrant | People often need to touch packages only once. | 03:49 |
| wgrant | jml: Changelogs, yes. | 03:49 |
| persia | jml: It is precisely that model of which Ubuntu exists in protest. | 03:49 |
| Hobbsee | jml: if you want to keep the branch equal to what's in the archive...yes | 03:49 |
| jml | wgrant, Hobbsee: ok. that makes things clearer to me :) | 03:49 |
| wgrant | jml: If one doesn't do that, the branch owners get very annoyed when their next upload fails. | 03:49 |
| Hobbsee | and if they're not equal, then people stop using bzr and such very quickly. | 03:49 |
| Hobbsee | (as we found) | 03:50 |
| persia | jml: Essentially, Ubuntu discards the concept of "package maintainer" in the interest of integration. While individuals have foci, they are not blocked on others when the work requires changes to several packages. | 03:50 |
| wgrant | Mhm. | 03:50 |
| jml | persia: I thought Ubuntu existed in protest of Debian's inability to release ;) | 03:50 |
| wgrant | jml: That too. | 03:50 |
| persia | jml: Perhaps. I'm not sure the two aren't unrelated. | 03:50 |
| wgrant | Though they do seem better now. | 03:50 |
| persia | Consider the difficulties of release management when even the release manager isn't supposed to fix a known problem without some response from a package maintainer. | 03:50 |
| persia | wgrant: Much more widespread use of 0-day NMU | 03:51 |
| jml | ok. | 03:51 |
| wgrant | persia: Indeed. I was a victim of one whilst waiting for sponsorship. I wasn't pleased. | 03:51 |
| wgrant | It's like going half-way to full group maintenance. | 03:51 |
| wgrant | Which is bad. | 03:51 |
| persia | wgrant: Indeed, and complicated by the lack of a central mechanism to track candidates: this is why I think putting candidates on mentors or REVU is broken, and advocate debdiffs and checking for bugs when uploading. | 03:52 |
| jml | so, from the perspective of branches, I think a lot of this will be addressed by source package branches. | 03:52 |
| wgrant | persia: Indeed, that works well. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. | 03:52 |
| wgrant | jml: As long as somebody doesn't blindly implement them without asking anybody who has ever worked in a distro, sure. | 03:53 |
| jml | because the current plan is for them to have the same write permissions as the source packages to which they correspond | 03:53 |
| persia | jml: Depends on the implementation. | 03:53 |
| wgrant | That makes sense. | 03:53 |
| jml | wgrant: well, I flew to Prague specifically to talk to Colin and others about it :) | 03:53 |
| wgrant | jml: You also want to talk to universe people as well. We work somewhat differently again. | 03:54 |
| persia | An additional interest group might be the flavour developers, who often have additional different processes. | 03:55 |
| rockstar | wgrant, I think it would be difficult to cover every single possible workflow, but we will do our best. | 03:55 |
| jml | good points, both | 03:55 |
| mwhudson | er | 03:55 |
| mwhudson | what are we doing now, other than talking to distro people? | 03:55 |
| persia | rockstar: I think the important part is to be aware which workflows are being broken, rather than supporting them. | 03:55 |
| jml | also, we actually do change stuff based on feedback :) | 03:56 |
| rockstar | persia, is there a wiki page with specific launchpad workflows? | 03:57 |
| rockstar | That mould be an excellent start | 03:57 |
| persia | rockstar: There isn't one. This was by decision. Each workflow is documented in a page addressing the specific sort of work. | 03:57 |
| rockstar | persia, can I please have an example? | 03:58 |
| === kiko is now known as kiko-afk | ||
| persia | rockstar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | 03:58 |
| jml | so, on a slight tangent | 03:59 |
| persia | That documents the interaction with bugs, upload targets, etc. for an update. Each type of thing done (aside from trivial bug closure) is likely to have a similar page. | 03:59 |
| jml | I'd be happy to fix a bug in Launchpad in exchange for an equivalent bug in Ubuntu :) | 04:00 |
| jml | there's this thing with my volume control... | 04:00 |
| persia | jml: Any bug? | 04:00 |
| jml | persia: not any bug :) | 04:00 |
| persia | That's not as interesting then :) | 04:01 |
| mwhudson | heh | 04:02 |
| jml | although almost everything in launchpad-bazaar is fair game. | 04:03 |
| Hobbsee | jml: i thought ubuntu people demanded payment in beer :P | 04:05 |
| * rockstar can be bribed in coke | 04:06 | |
| jml | Hobbsee: I moved on to whisky months ago | 04:06 |
| rockstar | Er, the dark liquid kind... | 04:06 |
| Hobbsee | heh :) | 04:06 |
| Hobbsee | rockstar++ | 04:06 |
| wgrant | Ooh dear. | 04:24 |
| wgrant | NZ's string dried out? | 04:24 |
| wgrant | Oh, same connection. I see. | 04:24 |
| hyperair | is there a way to request a rebuild of a package in ppa or has that feature been removed? | 04:47 |
| wgrant | hyperair: You've always had to upload a new version, unless you mean retrying a failed build. | 04:57 |
| hyperair | yes. | 04:58 |
| hyperair | i meant that | 04:58 |
| hyperair | retrying a failed build | 04:58 |
| hyperair | there used to be a button for that | 04:58 |
| wgrant | It's in the usual place. | 04:58 |
| hyperair | but i can't seem to find it anymore | 04:58 |
| hyperair | =\ | 04:58 |
| hyperair | where? | 04:58 |
| wgrant | Somewhere on that page. | 04:58 |
| wgrant | Let me see... | 04:58 |
| hyperair | it used to be in the build log page | 04:58 |
| hyperair | oh nevermind | 04:58 |
| hyperair | i just realized i wasn't logged in | 04:58 |
| hyperair | jeez this is stupid | 04:58 |
| hyperair | of all things | 04:59 |
| wgrant | Heh. | 04:59 |
| hyperair | okay i fuond it =D | 05:00 |
| hyperair | hmm how long does it take for the .deb to be published after the build is successful? | 05:00 |
| wgrant | hyperair: Up to 20 minutes. They are currently published at XX:00, XX:20, XX:40. | 05:14 |
| hyperair | i see. | 05:15 |
| halg | hello | 05:19 |
| halg | while using launchpad, tried to list code files for revision. Got message telling me to come here. | 05:20 |
| rockstar | halg, can you be a bit more specific? | 05:20 |
| halg | sorry. | 05:20 |
| halg | Hold on while I get the specifics. | 05:20 |
| halg | I was in mysql project. | 05:22 |
| mwhudson | ah | 05:22 |
| halg | Just kind of browsing, getting used to the code base and the lp system. | 05:22 |
| rockstar | halg, can you post a url? | 05:22 |
| halg | Sure. | 05:22 |
| halg | Here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1/annotate/2673?file_id=sp1f-buffer.cc-20041023073145-aao3dolyuw7jezlyrdgfk6nbxzxhy47c | 05:22 |
| halg | (yucch) | 05:22 |
| halg | Anyway, I tried to click on "browse files" (I think as I recall) | 05:23 |
| mwhudson | yeah, some of the mysql branches stress the code browsing rather a lot :/ | 05:23 |
| halg | (Don't really remember what I was doing since I was just getting familiarized) | 05:23 |
| mwhudson | halg: the page loaded for me, maybe try again? | 05:23 |
| halg | OK, so I get this error page telling me to come here. | 05:23 |
| halg | Suer. | 05:23 |
| halg | hold on. | 05:23 |
| halg | Hmmm. I thought I had selected something else. | 05:24 |
| halg | But anyway, it sounds like patience is the order of the day. | 05:24 |
| halg | Every day I mean. | 05:24 |
| halg | Mysql is a huge project. | 05:24 |
| mwhudson | yes, we noticed :) | 05:25 |
| halg | So the webserver is getting a bit bogged down? | 05:25 |
| mwhudson | yes | 05:25 |
| halg | So, under what conditions should I be concerned, if ever. | 05:25 |
| halg | ? | 05:25 |
| rockstar | halg, I don't think you need to be concerned. That's our job. :) | 05:25 |
| halg | Well, what I mean is re: mitigating damage to the repository or other services. | 05:26 |
| halg | I would hate to be in the middle of a transaction of some sort and cause corruption. | 05:26 |
| mwhudson | for bazaar.launchpad.net stuff, unfortunately, we know ABOUT the problems, but fixing them is going to take some work | 05:26 |
| mwhudson | halg: this sort of thing has no chance of corrupting data | 05:26 |
| halg | No way for ME, a user, to trash things? | 05:26 |
| mwhudson | no | 05:27 |
| halg | If the system gets bogged way down. | 05:27 |
| halg | Good! | 05:27 |
| halg | Relieved to hear that. | 05:27 |
| mwhudson | i mean, if you have the right to upload to the branch, you can mess things up that way | 05:27 |
| mwhudson | but not by browsing from the web | 05:27 |
| halg | Right. But I meant in terms of just doing what I am supposed to, not an error in my content chagnes. | 05:28 |
| halg | changes. | 05:28 |
| mwhudson | right | 05:28 |
| halg | Thanks for your help. | 05:28 |
| mwhudson | no worries | 05:28 |
| halg | I'm sure I'll be back at some point ... | 05:28 |
| mwhudson | hope so :) | 05:28 |
| halg | ??? | 05:28 |
| halg | You want me back? | 05:28 |
| halg | I'd think no news is good news! | 05:28 |
| halg | Later! | 05:29 |
| mwhudson | it's nice to hear from our users from time to time :) | 05:30 |
| halg | I'll see what I can break and get back to you. | 05:31 |
| wgrant | Why do branch merge proposal emails not respect team contact addresses? | 05:33 |
| jml | wgrant: what do you mean by "respect"? | 05:34 |
| wgrant | jml: They seem to spam all members regardless of the team contact address. | 05:34 |
| jml | wgrant: that's a bug. | 05:35 |
| wgrant | Oh. I see. | 05:35 |
| wgrant | Maybe it does. | 05:35 |
| wgrant | But this team has an email address, but it's somehow not set as the contact address. | 05:35 |
| jml | oh ok. | 05:36 |
| jml | wgrant: which team? | 05:36 |
| wgrant | ubuntu-dev | 05:36 |
| wgrant | What a confusing UI. | 05:37 |
| jml | wgrant: please file a bug if you find a bit of the UI confusing | 05:39 |
| jml | wgrant: especially if you can provide a suggestion for making it less so. | 05:39 |
| wgrant | I plan to. | 05:39 |
| \sh | does anyone know where the bzr repo is hiding for the new python lib for the new lp api? leonov needs to get hands on :) | 07:22 |
| jml | \sh: I'm not 100% sure it has been released yet. | 07:26 |
| * \sh needs to talk to gmb then ;) | 07:26 | |
| === RAOF is now known as ROAF | ||
| === ROAF is now known as RAOF | ||
| sabdfl | gmb, \sh: that lib should be available for anyone who wants to prototype and play | 10:22 |
| wgrant | Isn't it meant to be released to beta testers some time this week? | 10:22 |
| wgrant | (hi sabdfl) | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | hi | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | afaic it was supposed to be released a month ago, when the initial api pieces landed, though it's no doubt rough | 10:23 |
| wgrant | Rough is much better than private in this case, IMO. | 10:24 |
| Hobbsee | does it work, though? | 10:24 |
| wgrant | Hobbsee: If we can make screenscraping work, we can make a broken proper API work. | 10:24 |
| \sh | sabdfl: ah good to hear :) | 10:28 |
| \sh | sabdfl / gmb: if someone can point me to a place where I can export/branch it, we'll start right away with an implementation in leonov :) | 10:30 |
| gmb | \sh: Off the top of my head, I don't know where that is (it's not something that I've personally been working on). I'll find out for you, though, and get back to you. | 10:31 |
| \sh | gmb: thx a lot :) | 10:31 |
| \sh | wgrant: well, I don't know how thekorn thinks about it, but I think it's good to have two ways working for a little time...but regarding my work on py-lp-bugs, I don't want to see everything screenscraped in general ;) | 10:33 |
| * \sh is brb...marathon meeting | 10:43 | |
| sabdfl | barry is the person who was responsible for the library, iirc | 10:51 |
| === thekorn is now known as thekorn_ | ||
| aa_ | hi, is it possible to send copy of all announcements to an email address? | 11:36 |
| intellectronica | aa_: not in launchpad itself, but i'm sure there are rss to email gateways out there you could use | 11:38 |
| aa_ | intellectronica: great, just saw I can get a feed of them | 11:39 |
| aa_ | intellectronica: don''t suppose you know of any such services? | 11:42 |
| intellectronica | aa_: http://www.google.com/search?q=email+rss | 11:47 |
| aa_ | ok thanks | 12:00 |
| === abentley1 is now known as abentley | ||
| mpt | Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders! | 13:00 |
| mpt | wgrant, unfortunately there isn't really a "that part of the code" that grep could be pointed at | 13:02 |
| wgrant | mpt: I haven't seen Open or Closed used anywhere except that page, so I presumed it would have been somewhere local to that page. | 13:03 |
| mpt | hm, only 70 occurrences | 13:04 |
| wgrant | Oh dear. | 13:04 |
| mpt | shouldn't be that difficult :-) | 13:04 |
| === mars is now known as Guest65430 | ||
| === vednis is now known as mars | ||
| Annabel | hi all, | 15:08 |
| Annabel | I am in the process of releasing a major open source package for matlab and I wondered whether users could have SVN client access to the trunk branch of a project. | 15:08 |
| Annabel | I have sought on the documentation wiki, but did not found the answer | 15:08 |
| Annabel | any help? | 15:08 |
| Annabel | or suggestions? | 15:08 |
| === salgado_ is now known as salgado | ||
| mrevell | Hey jelmer, would bzr-svn help Annabel ^^^^ | 15:32 |
| jelmer | hi Matthew, Annabel | 15:39 |
| jelmer | Subversion client access to bzr branches isn't supported yet by bzr-svn, although there has been work on it | 15:40 |
| Annabel | Hi jelmer and mrevell | 15:40 |
| Annabel | ah OK | 15:40 |
| mrevell | thanks jelmerl | 15:40 |
| Annabel | I guess the same is true for client CVS access ... | 15:41 |
| jelmer | you should be able to keep a copy of the bzr branch in Subversion though (instead of direct access) | 15:41 |
| jelmer | Annabel, yeah, although it's harder to maintain a copy of the bzr branch in CVS | 15:43 |
| jelmer | for Subversion, keeping a copy should be as simple as "bzr push <svn-url>" | 15:43 |
| Annabel | it seems to be some kind of a workaround is not it? Can the SVNserver be hosted on the launchpad server or is it restricted to a personal server | 15:43 |
| Annabel | OK | 15:43 |
| jelmer | Launchpad doesn't provide Subversion hosting at the moment | 15:44 |
| Annabel | OK. Thanks a lot for your help, Jelner! | 15:46 |
| * Annabel needs to leave now | 15:46 | |
| Annabel | CU | 15:46 |
| === kiko-afk is now known as kiko | ||
| forrest | Hi all, I'm a freshman who never developed any linux programs before | 16:40 |
| forrest | Is there anyone who can lead me into the world of linux development? | 16:40 |
| kiko | forrest, hmmm, there's a lot of stuff out there on the web. what sort of app do you want to build? | 16:47 |
| forrest | I'm always thinking that start from the very beginning | 16:48 |
| forrest | but now I have already got some expirence on embeded system developing | 16:48 |
| forrest | Could you give me some advice of where to start? | 16:51 |
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| mpt | mrevell, sorry for reporting a duplicate of bug 253274 -- I thought "nobody will have reported this already", so I didn't bother searching :-) | 17:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 253274 in launchpad-documentation "h3 on help and h4 on news are underlined" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253274 | 17:05 |
| mrevell | heh, no worries mpt. You've seen that I've reported a few dupes in my time :) | 17:06 |
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch | ||
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch | ||
| === Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara | ||
| sabdfl | everybody feeling the 2.0 love? | 18:34 |
| sidnei | hi kiko | 18:37 |
| ScottK | sabdfl: Unfortunately yes. | 18:38 |
| kiko | sidnei! | 18:41 |
| kiko | ScottK, couldn't hope to have anything more positive from you :) | 18:41 |
| sidnei | kiko: you've been hard to find lately :) | 18:42 |
| * cody-somerville is experiencing revision 6773 love. | 18:42 | |
| ScottK | kiko: I don't like the new interface and I don't see any point in being shy about it. | 18:42 |
| cody-somerville | I'm starting to like the new interface. | 18:44 |
| sidnei | im wondering if there's any work planned on improving the experience on uploading releases to launchpad | 18:44 |
| kiko | sidnei, uploading release tarballs, you mean? | 18:44 |
| sidnei | kiko: tarballs and installers yes | 18:44 |
| sidnei | kiko: i frequently have to upload the plone windows installer which is 30mb and fails 3 out of 4 times | 18:44 |
| kiko | sidnei, because the upload fails? | 18:45 |
| sidnei | kiko: yes, the upload fails | 18:45 |
| kiko | that's disturbing | 18:45 |
| sidnei | kiko: i get a 'please try again' screen without any specifics. i suspect it's a timeout | 18:46 |
| sidnei | makes me kinda miss the ftp-based upload process from sourceforge. cumbersome but effective. | 18:48 |
| kiko | sidnei, I'll look into this. I wasn't aware this was such a problem -- and the fact that I'm not aware is really disturbing | 18:49 |
| * kiko winks ata cody-somerville | 18:49 | |
| sidnei | kiko: i've opened a feature request some time ago, bug #174798, that would be ideal to me | 18:53 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 174798 in launchpad "Feature Request: Upload from URL" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174798 | 18:53 |
| sidnei | i see from bug #32772 that this is unlikely to get accepted though | 18:55 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 32772 in malone "request: "add atachment" a file from a URL" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32772 | 18:55 |
| sidnei | kiko: ? | 19:52 |
| === _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde | ||
| kiko | siretart, yo | 20:31 |
| kiko | sidnei, sorry, was on the phone | 20:31 |
| sidnei | kiko: man, im almost giving up here. on the 5th try, each takes about 40 minutes :( | 20:32 |
| kiko | sidnei, this really bothers me, and Rinchen is going to look into this with the QA team -- I see the security implication of it but if all we're doing is putting stuff in the librarian.. people can upload anything to the librarian today. | 20:33 |
| kiko | sidnei, I think I'm going to put a feature request up for sftp:// uploads | 20:34 |
| sidnei | kiko: please, anything would be an improvement | 20:34 |
| kiko | sidnei, I wonder if I can upload it more easily from here. want me to try? | 20:36 |
| sidnei | kiko: wouldn't hurt i guess, but i've tried uploading from a box in houston and haven't had much luck | 20:37 |
| kiko | okay | 20:37 |
| kiko | sidnei, we're adding an item to tomorrow's meeting to talk this over | 20:38 |
| sidnei | kiko: i really appreciate that. thanks! | 20:39 |
| kiko | thanks for the feedback, I hate it when we don't know what's not working :-( | 20:39 |
| kiko | siretart, yo! | 21:02 |
| sidnei | kiko: if you still want to give it a try, i can give you a url to fetch the file from | 21:14 |
| kiko | sidnei, if you've tried from houston, I'm not sure it will be better from california :-( | 21:15 |
| kiko | sidnei, I was considering uploading from the DC itself | 21:15 |
| kiko | but I wonder if I can upload using w3m | 21:15 |
| mtaylor | kiko: who should I annoy about spec dependancies? | 21:15 |
| kiko | mtaylor, me, I guess :) | 21:16 |
| mtaylor | kiko: I tried to add a depend to a spec, and I got a wonderfully informative "Constraint not satisfied" | 21:16 |
| kiko | mtaylor, heh. is the spec on a different project? | 21:17 |
| mtaylor | kiko: nope. | 21:17 |
| mtaylor | kiko: I tried to add https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/drizzle/+spec/remove-include-dir as a depend of https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/drizzle/+spec/gettextize | 21:17 |
| kiko | hmm. | 21:17 |
| sidnei | kiko: if you cant upload with w3m that's a serious bug, ha! :) | 21:18 |
| ScottK | Currently you can't even browse Launchpad with it, so probably not. | 21:19 |
| LaserJock | ScottK: you can browse, you just can't login, correct? | 21:20 |
| mpt | because w3m follows the de-jure rules for cookies rather than the de-facto rules, iirc | 21:20 |
| ScottK | IIRC it was SSL certs. | 21:20 |
| ScottK | Maybe it was cookies. | 21:21 |
| sidnei | i bet one can handcraft a curl command line to upload | 21:21 |
| mpt | bug 59510 is the only one we have about w3m | 21:21 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 59510 in launchpad "Can't log in with w3m due to bad cookies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59510 | 21:21 |
| kiko | it's a problem with cookie RFC violations? gar. | 21:21 |
| matsubara | sidnei: what's file URL? | 21:22 |
| sidnei | matsubara: https://houston.enfoldsystems.com/files/sidnei/Plone-3.1.4-buildout.exe | 21:22 |
| matsubara | sidnei: and where were you trying to upload it to? | 21:22 |
| sidnei | and add .asc to that too | 21:22 |
| sidnei | uploading into https://edge.launchpad.net/plone/3.1/3.1.4/+adddownloadfile | 21:22 |
| sidnei | does lp support http-basic auth too or only cookie? | 21:25 |
| kiko | sidnei, it used to support basic-auth, hmm | 21:25 |
| sidnei | yeah, seems to work | 21:27 |
| kiko | mtaylor, I'm a bit stumped. | 21:40 |
| mtaylor | kiko: ok | 21:40 |
| mtaylor | kiko: I guess maybe I just shouldn't associate those two... perhaps lp is starting to have emergent intelligence! | 21:40 |
| sidnei | OMG | 21:41 |
| kiko | mtaylor, I've been looking at the schema and code and.. | 21:41 |
| sidnei | kiko: i was able to upload it with curl from a different host | 21:41 |
| sidnei | kiko: this one has slightly better uplink :) | 21:41 |
| kiko | heh | 21:41 |
| kiko | good | 21:41 |
| sidnei | kiko: did you open a bug about it? | 21:42 |
| kiko | sidnei, no, we're still talking about it | 21:42 |
| kiko | but it's on the radar | 21:42 |
| sidnei | kiko: ok | 21:42 |
| sidnei | kiko: fwiw, http://paste.lisp.org/display/64450 | 21:43 |
| kiko | ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/59510 | 21:53 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 59510 in launchpad "Can't log in with w3m due to bad cookies" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 21:53 |
| kiko | sidnei, thanks! that is useful. | 21:54 |
| sidnei | kiko: np. gotta go, bye! | 21:54 |
| kiko | siretart, ping v3 | 22:07 |
| siretart | kiko: hey there! | 22:08 |
| siretart | v3? | 22:08 |
| kiko | siretart!! | 22:08 |
| kiko | siretart, it's great to hear from you. do you have time tomorrow for a phone call? | 22:08 |
| siretart | what time do you think of? | 22:09 |
| kiko | siretart, your afternoon more or less | 22:09 |
| siretart | that should be doable, but let's please syncronize that on IRC | 22:09 |
| kiko | siretart, will do. I am hoping to get heno and colin in on that same call | 22:09 |
| siretart | allright! | 22:09 |
| kiko | cool | 22:10 |
| kiko | siretart, I'll mail you something now as a preamble | 22:10 |
| siretart | sounds cool! great! | 22:10 |
| kiko | mtaylor, oho, it's a bug :) | 22:11 |
| kiko | <flacoste> kiko: you can't depend on an implemented spec, that's silly, but that's how it works | 22:11 |
| kiko | mtaylor, isn't that just daft! | 22:11 |
| LaserJock | siretart: hiya | 22:11 |
| mtaylor | kiko: that is, in fact, stupid | 22:11 |
| kiko | mtaylor, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/blueprint/+bug/140533 | 22:11 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 140533 in blueprint "Blueprints in progress can't depend on completed blueprints" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 22:11 |
| kiko | GAR | 22:11 |
| mtaylor | why not? | 22:11 |
| kiko | mtaylor, easy to work around though... | 22:11 |
| mtaylor | sure | 22:11 |
| kiko | well it says bug 140533 there for a reason :) | 22:12 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 140533 in blueprint "Blueprints in progress can't depend on completed blueprints" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140533 | 22:12 |
| ScottK | kiko: Right. That's the one. | 22:19 |
| kiko | ScottK, read my comments there | 22:19 |
| kiko | I think it's unlikely this is a bug in launchpad | 22:19 |
| kiko | those cookies are explicitly allowed in the netscape spec | 22:19 |
| ScottK | Of course RFC 2119 is a recent spec so it's unlikely you'd be in a position to support it. | 22:36 |
| === slayton is now known as slayton-ZzZz | ||
| kiko | mtaylor, I'm fixing the bug fwiw. should be on edge in 2 days | 22:41 |
| mtaylor | kiko: you rule! | 22:42 |
| kiko | mtaylor, some people say that too literally true! | 22:44 |
| mtaylor | :) | 22:45 |
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk | ||
| === cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville | ||
| kiko | ScottK, the issue is more that that spec seems to be overly restrictive. | 23:04 |
| ScottK | Someone should take that up with the IETF. | 23:06 |
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| === matsubara-afk is now known as matsubara | ||
| === fta_ is now known as fta | ||
| kiko | ScottK, you didn't get my point I guess | 23:58 |
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