=== elkbuntu is now known as elky [00:13] * Pici rolls his eyes [00:13] Pici: what's that away stuff in #ubuntu about? [00:14] tomaw: Oh, just some people accidentally replying to RichiH instead of the user RichW (who is active) and getting notices back from RichiH that hes away/. [00:14] ah [00:15] I know he using a script that sends a notice if you address him while he's away [00:16] atleast he's not pm'ing [00:16] a few staff find it useful but I don't really understand the attraction myself [00:18] * Myrtti shrugs [00:34] since when has the ban on shellium.org been lifted? [00:35] * Pici greps [00:36] Looks like for at least a month... [01:37] How can we help you jryvoan? djs? [01:38] Oh, Forgot I was still here.. was going to report some spam I got when I joined the #ubuntu channel, but it's been like 15 minutes [01:38] Hello. [01:38] I tried to join and it did not give me the channel immediately. [01:39] I wanted to try and introduce our growing community whose goal is to hold a linuxfest in the SE United States. [01:39] Our channel is #southeastlinuxfest , and our website is http://www.southeastlinuxfest.com/wiki [01:39] I did not want to just channel spam, so I wanted to ask how would be best to spread the word most effectively. [01:39] djs: You should try talking to LoCo teams in the area [01:40] djs: check who is in the access list for the channels, and ask their permission if you're worried [01:42] I have been, but I just want to make sure I won't make some angry mentioning this. [02:09] can someone test me for this dcc bug deal? [02:10] i switched to port 8001 and it still wont let me in [02:10] did you get sent to #ubuntu-read-topic ? [02:10] yes [02:10] Did you read the topic? especially the test me part? [02:10] hmm ive tried it, ill try it again [02:10] maybe i messed ups somehow [02:11] xim: Sorry, but I am unable to test you (are you using your usual nickname?). Please contact the operators (type « /topic » to find out how). [02:11] @bansearch xim [02:11] stdin: No matches found for xim!n=barrett@68-191-210-212.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com in any channel [02:11] are you sure you're banned from #ubuntu? [02:12] yes, he is. [02:12] i dont know if im *banned* its just forwarding me to #ubuntu-read-topic [02:12] xim: I'll try the manual test instead then. [02:12] yep, bot's just being silly [02:12] xim: ignore any strange characters you get from me. [02:13] (and please don't post them back) [02:13] xim: well, if you're still connected, you pass. [02:13] i got your pm, but just some zeros [02:13] yep [02:13] k sweet thanks it works now [02:14] xim: You can rejoin #ubuntu now, sorry for the inconvenience [02:14] should it be permanently fixed? [02:15] unless you change back to the old port, you're safe [02:16] cool thanks [02:51] what does this mean: armrp has quit (Killed by LoRez ()) [02:53] nickrud: lorez is a staffer, it appears to be some sort of connection kill, I dont know if its a k-line or not. [02:54] Pici thanks, /whois lorez didn't return anything. Heh. /whois is case sensitive, who'd a thunk it ;) [02:54] nickrud: Are you sure you spelled it right? its not case sensitive afaik. [02:55] armrp was complaining about pm spam, I sent him to #freenode and I saw that in a pm. (and I did mispell, can't read. It's been a loong day) [03:17] please note that that is NOT how you report a spammer [03:17] nalioth who do you report them to? [03:17] nickrud: you report them in #freenode, just not like that [03:18] nalioth I didn't see how he reported. Was he an ass? [03:20] he pasted the exact spam message [03:20] klineage ensued [03:20] I'll make a note to tell people I haven't seen not to paste there ;) [03:21] or maybe not, depending :) [06:15] nalioth: What do you think we ought to do re: RootSudo wiki page? get rid of the "how to disable password prompts" bit? or just slap a huge warning? [06:16] er, nickrud. [06:16] sorry nalioth [06:16] I haven't looked for a long time ... going there [06:17] Just scroll down to the bottom. [06:17] Looks like it was added in a few revisions by kevin-neobalance [06:19] I'm not sure which one I prefer. Downsides to both. [06:19] I'm not sure what I would say there. I had that setup in debian, but never set it up in ubuntu. [06:20] It's a security risk, I think that should be mentioned. something like "If you disable the sudo password for your account, keep in mind that anyone sitting at your unattended machine will have root access.' [06:20] as well as anyone connected remotely [06:21] true, to that account. [06:21] But if they get access that far, they probably already have the password [06:21] Unless youre set up SSH via keys, I guess. [06:22] or even a bot exploit [06:22] or some other daemon/service/whatever run as a user [06:23] yes [06:23] "If you disable the sudo password for your account, you will seriously compromise the security of your machine, by both physical and remote access" [06:25] "If you disable the sudo password for your account, you will seriously compromise the security of your machine. Anyone sitting at your unattended machine will have complete root access, and remote exploits become much easier for malicious crackers." [06:26] "If you disable the sudo password for your account, you will seriously compromise the security of your computer. Anyone sitting at your unattended, logged in account will have complete root access, and remote exploits become much easier for malicious crackers." [06:27] poke flannel [06:28] nickrud: aye [06:29] or simply cut it back out. I'm of two minds here [06:34] Check that out [06:34] * Flannel couldn't find a page with a big warning icon thing, although he knows thats addable. [06:35] I originally had both things bold, but figured the monotony would lose its effect, so... one gets yellow! [06:35] I was just thinking about that. Yellow is good ;) [06:35] Its not in HelpOnEditing, and... I know I've seen a page recently with them, but couldn't remember which [06:36] Flannel attachment:IconsPage/IconWarning3.png [06:37] just... insert? [06:37] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IconsPage , warning1.png looks ok to [06:37] *too [06:38] Ah lovely. [06:38] stop.png? [06:38] IconDialog-Warning1.png [06:39] yeah, either. The hand is emphatic for sure though [06:40] Hmm, doesn't seem to want to work. [06:40] Oh, I'd have to attach it to that page... is there no way to just... link? [06:41] {{attachment:IconWarning3.png}} I think is the syntax [06:41] * nickrud has not edited the wiki in a long time [06:41] heh [06:41] I tried that, in and otuside the table... doesn't want to work. [06:41] I'll keep fiddling. [06:42] the yellow is pretty solid, anyway [06:42] XKCD rocks today, again. [06:42] ah, there we go. [06:42] {{attachment:IconsPage/IconDialog-Warning1.png}} [06:44] yeah, I copied from the same page, it didn't need the PAGE ref ;) [06:47] Alright, I'll let someone else deal with the cell border, since my attempts were fruitless [06:47] Looks pretty good though [06:47] yep. Wanna poke Bogus, or should I [06:48] nickrud: Go aheda [06:50] nice tonyyarusso [06:52] Meanwhile in not-so-nice land, yet ANOTHER news story about cops assaulting cyclists for no reason making waves, via Digg. [06:52] http://www.jazzandblues.org/programming/listen/links/?path=kkjz1.pls for real listening pleasure [07:08] Myrtti: yes? [08:26] Huomenta! [08:28] xim: Is there anything else we can help you with? [08:28] !idle > xim [08:28] xim, please see my private message === ubot3` is now known as ubot3 [09:29] huomenta Myrtti [09:30] good morning [09:30] you've got psychic skills [09:33] how so? [09:33] how did you know to say good morning to me when I had just connected? [09:34] notify? [09:34] no Idea, but this reminded me: [09:34] [11:02:48] --> Myrtti (i=myrtti@murjottava.myrtti.fi) has joined #ubuntu-ops [09:34] [11:02:48] *** Mode #ubuntu-ops +v Myrtti by ChanServ [09:34] [11:02:48] --> Myrtti (i=myrtti@murjottava.myrtti.fi) has joined #ubuntu-ops [09:34] [11:02:48] *** Mode #ubuntu-ops +v Myrtti by ChanServ [09:34] crap... [09:34] ah [09:34] kapsi had some connection problems [09:35] :) [09:35] Im off to lunch, so see you late [09:35] r [09:35] or - calkins had [09:36] seeya [09:38] Myrtti: You connceted 27 minutes before jussi01 said morning. [09:38] connected, even. [09:38] oh, and that's aleady been said. [09:38] * Flannel ignores himself. [09:40] * Myrtti pokes Tm_T [09:51] Insomnia, Flannel ? [09:52] nickrud: What? Its only 150? [09:52] heh. your day must start late most of the time [09:52] eh, well, not working tomorrow, so I can stay up later than usual, but 2ish is usually when I go to bed anyway [09:55] * nalioth loves insomnia [09:56] texans. What can you say? [09:57] insomnia strikes w/o thought to all (wo)men [09:57] even caligornians [09:57] all nighters are a wonderful thing. [09:57] yep. I was infected while in texas. It flares on days we have earthquakes [09:58] heh [09:58] first time I wasn't on the ground floor for an quake. Only 5 floors up, but it was interesting [09:58] Where abouts in the state? [09:59] by LAX. [09:59] Ah, pretty close. [10:00] yeah. biggest I've been in, but the most effect [10:01] Was pretty tame all the way down here, lasted for a while though. [10:01] People still freak out, sort of sad. [10:04] it was a long one. I did find a doorway to stand in. [10:04] nickrud: In Ubuntu you just use pinning to pin versions [10:04] who's in texas ? [10:04] ikonia: texans [10:05] Flannel I used pinning extensively when I was running a mixed unstable/experimental system. But it's been a long time, I don't have the fu anymore [10:05] ikonia nalioth is a true East Texan. [10:05] no [10:05] * nalioth is from Houston [10:05] nickrud: Just don't look at the wiki page. Someone perverted it rather aptly. [10:05] nalioth may not be by birth, but you have the taint ;) [10:05] "east Texas" is northeast [10:06] I lived in Cosa Mesa for few months [10:07] favorite place - Barnes and Nobles [10:07] (or Huntington Beach) [10:08] huntington beach is only a few miles down the road. I usually end up in Santa Monica or Venice when I head for the beach though [10:10] fake> how to say, ubuntu is worst linux disto [10:11] you'd say, "Ubuntu is the worst distro." [10:11] heh [10:11] I'll mute him for next unproductive poke [10:11] right; at least spell distro correctly :) [10:12] hello srinux [10:12] hello [10:13] i go to sleep i am from panama XD [10:13] how may we assist you [10:13] 4:13am bye [10:13] mmm, k [10:13] okies [10:14] polite visitor :) [10:31] awwww... can someone look up the gutsy winehq sources.list entry? my DNS decided to crap out on my at the exact wrong time [10:31] oh, nevermind [10:32] what's the official policy on naming deb packages made of _git_ pulls? [10:34] surely the release isn't "git4c7b196a929658c958c7f08a8b77cd707086d3fb" >__< [10:34] probably version~git[date] [10:35] or something. Definately tilde involved [10:36] Jul 28 18:22:37 2008 ... so shell-fm_0.5_~git20080728 ? [10:36] version~ to make sure when version is put into the real repos, it gets favored over the non-official one [10:36] shell-fm_0.5~git20080728 ? [10:37] and then after that... I suppose you could do whatever. prevu does version~[target]prevu1 [10:37] and I'm sure the 1 on the end changes [10:37] -motu probably could tell you (and actually know) [10:38] * Myrtti shrugs [10:38] I roll only for my personal use with checkinstall [10:39] then do whatever you'd like after the tilde. version~thisishowIfeeltoday [10:49] who broke the bot? :( [10:49] !ping [10:49] ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore [10:49] Myrtti: i cant add factoids [10:49] !fail | gnomefreak [10:49] gnomefreak: FAILZ! [10:49] !ultramatix is ultramatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultramatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultramatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:49] gnomefreak: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [10:49] @login [10:49] Myrtti: The operation succeeded. [10:49] @login [10:49] gnomefreak: The operation succeeded. [10:49] !ultramatix is ultramatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultramatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultramatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:49] gnomefreak: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [10:50] gnomefreak: leave out the reply [10:50] then add it in a sec [10:50] huh? leave it out than add it? [10:50] gnomefreak: watch [10:51] gnomefreak: thank you ! [10:51] !ultramatix is ultramatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultramatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultramatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:51] ikonia: np [10:51] hrm.. /me waits... [10:51] gnomefreak: needed doing ahead of the mess this time [10:51] jussi01: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [10:51] hrm [10:52] yeah i figured no one else had added it i will :) [10:52] isn't it ultamatix? [10:52] not ultramatix [10:52] yeah it is [10:52] !ultamatix [10:52] Automatix is no longer developed or supported by its creators and is not recommended, supported, or needed by Ubuntu. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html and « /msg ubottu WorksForMe » [10:52] right, I aliased it earlier today just as a place holder [10:52] who linked it [10:52] ah [10:52] !-ultamatix [10:52] ultamatix is automatix - added by Flannel on 2008-07-29 20:03:09 [10:53] this morning! [10:53] !no ultamatix is ultamatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultramatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultramatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:53] I'll remember that gnomefreak [10:53] damn [10:53] !no ultamatix is ultamatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultramatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultamatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:53] Theres a few ultras in there :) [10:54] fixed them [10:54] !ultramatix is ultamatix [10:54] I'll remember that, Flannel [10:54] since, that'll get typod a lot :) [10:54] gnomefreak: not the channel [10:54] why didnt he remember the fixed one :( [10:54] he did. You just missed one [10:54] gnomefreak: you know there's no need for there? [10:54] stdin: im used to it [10:55] !ultamatix [10:55] ultamatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultramatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultamatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:55] should capitalize that first u [10:55] and #ultramatix [10:55] !ultamatix =~ s/ultramatix/ultamatix/ [10:55] I'll remember that Flannel [10:55] jussi01: i did but i thought that is what was causing the failure [10:55] !ultamatix =~ s/ultamatix is/Ultamatix is/ [10:56] !ultamatix [10:56] Ultamatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please join #ultamatix for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultamatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [10:56] channel is spelled right? [10:56] I think I got them all [10:56] Ultamatix! It is actually based on Automatix, therefore it looks and acts exactly the same. The good news is that Ultamatix is designed to work with Ubuntu Ultimate Editon 1.8, Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and the unstable branch of Debian Linux.This is a new automatix alternative. [10:56] aha [10:56] there is no #ultamatix, by the way. [10:56] Flannel: yeah its not there [10:56] !ultimatix is ultamatix [10:56] I'll remember that, jussi01 [10:56] Flannel: im looking right at it [10:57] http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ultamatix-install-101-applications-in-one-click-including-gamescodecsapplications.html [10:57] gnomefreak: Eh? [10:57] oh god no tell me its not true :( [10:57] no such channel [10:58] of all people [10:58] bazhang: im looking for it [10:58] and or the way support is done [10:58] forums [10:58] http://forumubuntusoftware.info/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1365 [10:58] just tell them to see http://ultamatix.com/ for support? [10:59] the banlist is about to grow methinks [10:59] * Flannel *whines* at life not being fair. [10:59] we just got rid of automatix. sigh. [10:59] Wheres Myrtti to sigh when I need it. [11:00] is ubuntugeek site run by imbrandon? [11:00] Flannel: its based on automatix [11:01] gnomefreak: I'm well aware of what it is. I originally, regretfully, informed this channel about it. [11:01] heh [11:01] gnomefreak: but, I meant the fact that they stopped. We had a brief honeymoon period (the last what, two months?) without any super-malice scripts [11:01] read about it elsewhere first. [11:02] !no ultamatix is ultamatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please go to ubuntuforums or to www.ultamatix.com for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultamatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [11:02] I'll remember that gnomefreak [11:02] Oh wtf. [11:02] Flannel: true [11:02] Why is it being propagated by the forum god? [11:02] anyone know if ubuntugeek is imbrandon? since he... should know better. [11:02] or, at least, I would think he would know better. [11:02] Or is it just a misleading site name? [11:02] wgrant: scroll i tired #ultamatix and you know as well as anyone it will end up on forums [11:03] Flannel: whois says no. [11:03] right; I foresee the "but ubuntuforums told me to do it!!" posts [11:03] oh... [11:03] no but i know imbrandon this is aassuming he didnt get an acount there [11:03] wgrant: Sorry, it was his regular Ubuntu mirror [11:03] Wow. That logo is foul. [11:04] * Flannel grumbles at a misleadingly stupid screenshot. [11:04] well where do we send them? [11:04] wgrant: no its *superduperawesomerific* dude! [11:04] gnomefreak: The ultamatix forums. [11:04] NOT the ubuntu forums [11:04] Flannel: Oh, I see where you got the idea it was imbrandon, right. I hadn't ventured that far into the article yet. [11:04] the you-have-to-register-to-view-at-all forums [11:04] Flannel: where are they? im looking atm [11:04] gnomefreak: ultamatix, middle top button "forums" [11:05] Can we talk to the ubuntuforums people to get a ban placed on Ultamatix references and the like? [11:05] its a long string, I suppose we could tinyurl it [11:05] wgrant: I'll poke Vorian about it [11:05] I thought the world was safe from Automatix..... [11:05] wgrant: it was for a little! [11:05] wgrant: as long as it does get it's own sub forum like automatix did, I think that will be a big step [11:05] im sending them to the register link since you have to register it looks like [11:05] but, some automatix user thought it'd be cute to resurrect it. [11:05] gnomefreak: you do [11:05] Flannel: Right... /me cries [11:06] !no ultamatix is ultamatix is not supported by Ubuntu. It can cause system damage and should not be used, if you need support with it please go to http://forumubuntusoftware.info/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1365 for support. If you refer or suggest users install Ultamatix you are subject to a warning the first time, a removal from channel for second time and a ban for the third time. [11:06] I'll remember that gnomefreak [11:06] seems that is not strong enough [11:06] Interesting apt sources in http://www.ubuntugeek.com/images/ulta/25.png [11:06] wgrant: And they're even sort of kinda trying to use launchpad, at that. [11:06] wgrant: I like the "harty" one [11:07] bazhang: i can say alot of things to make it stronger but how strong "use it and die unhappily"? [11:07] Flannel: That's the one I was talking about. [11:07] Flannel: WHo is trying to use LP? [11:07] And where? [11:07] gnomefreak: Let me see if I have some of the old automatix ones, before we were forced to neuter them [11:07] gnomefreak: its fine as it, spells it out clear and simple [11:07] something like "ultamatix will break your system. You will lose all support here and be prompted to fresh install. [11:07] wgrant: there is a blueprint for ultramatix which is a mgaret blog - its an annoying waste of resources, I'm tempted to speak to someone in #launchpad about it [11:08] wgrant: https://launchpad.net/~theemahn is the guy doing ultacrapix (and yes, he has no real name, even in the deb), and https://launchpad.net/theemahn2003 is the "ultamatix" project [11:08] well im thinking about the warning,remove,ban line atm it should have ubuntu channles but what about kubuntu xubuntu so on [11:08] Good to see that they capitalise UBUNTU properly. They know their stuff. [11:08] suggesting its use and/or referring to it here will ...etc etc [11:08] ikonia: if you have a contact in #launchpad go for it but wgrant is from there ;) [11:09] It's intended to run on Debian but he hasn't tested it. Uhuh. [11:09] wow [11:10] * gnomefreak goes for first smoke of morning. im not sure what it should say about #*ubuntu-* channels [11:10] wgrant: but its *designed* for supercool debianizernessity! [11:10] Flannel: Ah yes, I trust it now. [11:11] gnomefreak: this is the best I can do in my logs: Automatix2 is a 3rd-party product attempting to automate installation of additional software. When it fails and breaks systems, we don't provide support for it. A technical analysis from a Debian/Ubuntu developer can be found at http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html (See also: /msg ubotu worksforme) [11:11] but, thats way late in the game. I guess I hadn't started logging queries before that. [11:11] Oh, we can grep #ubuntu logs [11:11] I'm glad they show their CSS compliance. [11:12] Considering they're not even valid HTML 4.01 Strict. [11:12] wgrant: I thought it was interesting they had a CSS badge, but not an HTML one [11:12] gnomefreak: I have no contact but as you say wgrant is here, so lets discuss [11:12] Flannel: I suppose one is better than none. [11:13] wgrant: If only we could somehow send out a call to all Ubuntu members, and get everyone to post their blogs/etc condemning it. One giant tidal wave of fail. [11:13] * Flannel stops being silly. [11:13] Flannel: That would be wonderful. But then we'd probably be attacked for inciting CoC violations or similar. [11:16] * bazhang is not a member but has already blogdemned it. [11:16] I love the complete stock responses from the FAQ [11:17] maybe we should add "use at your own risk and see !worksforme but it is a big long atm [11:18] bazhang: if you give me an outline i can post it to planet but i think factoid should be finished first :) [11:18] and how do we handle the why questions [11:18] the why should be in the !factoid imo [11:19] gnomefreak: why questions will be handled in person after the factoid [11:19] problem is imbrandon im sure is one of the devs for it so he may debate the factoid or even what we say about it as in warning people and such [11:19] since, they'll be tailored to the issue at hand [11:19] gnomefreak: What gives you that idea? [11:19] gnomefreak: No, imbrandon didn't post that. Its just his mirror [11:19] I don't think he'd be foolish enough to get involved... I hope. [11:19] wgrant: he is one of the devs [11:20] gnomefreak: maybe worth talking with him ? [11:20] gnomefreak: that site isn't his, its just using his ubuntu mirrors... rather annoying and confusing (even to me) [11:20] Flannel: either way he is connected to it if not a dev he supports it [11:20] gnomefreak: what gives you that idea? [11:20] * Flannel please don't say "because you said so". [11:20] * Flannel emotes random sentences without verbs. [11:21] Hm. This guy is stupid. [11:21] He has his phone number and address in whois. [11:21] Flannel: if he didnt support it it wouldnt use his mirrors nor his screenshots [11:21] And is writing stupid breakable software. [11:21] Not a good combination for him. [11:21] gnomefreak: Huh? [11:21] gnomefreak: Anyone can use his mirrors, they're public mirrors. [11:21] ultamatix will break your system. It is not supported here and is completely unneccesary. Install !gnome-do !ubuntu-tweak and ubuntu-retricted-extras from synaptic package manager. Use of ultaborkage *will* necessitate a fresh install. [11:21] hold on [11:21] gnomefreak: Its ok, until recently, I was confused in the same way you were :) [11:21] wgrant: from a launchpad perspective is there any guidelines for what must be in place to open a project ? [11:22] ikonia: It needs to be Free, and that's about it. [11:22] see screenshots of terminal http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ultamatix-install-101-applications-in-one-click-including-gamescodecsapplications.html [11:22] wgrant: so there is nothing contect related as in "you must be a spec, you must have a statment of work, a publicised contact" etc etc [11:22] use his mirrors but use his terminal [11:22] he has to be connected [11:23] * Myrtti wails [11:23] gnomefreak: What do you mean by 'use his terminal'? [11:23] i doubt someone would hack him for screenshots [11:23] The only imbrandon reference I can see is mirror.imbrandon.com [11:23] wgrant: see the screenshots on the link i gave [11:23] gnomefreak: Which part of them? There are an awful lot. [11:24] hmmmmm i missed mirror [11:24] You did. [11:24] Which we've been trying to tell you for a while. [11:24] But I think we were all confused for a time. [11:24]