/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/31/#launchpad.txt

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NCommandercprov, ping?00:29
kikoNCommander, I think he's kinda out -- it's 20:30 his time00:29
NCommanderkiko, argh. he said he'd message me later, and well, later is here :-P00:30
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Hobbseenow, why did i just get an email?02:01
Hobbseeah.  because i'm still an admin.02:02
thumperHobbsee: I was going to say "because someone loves you"02:48
Hobbseethumper: aww :)02:49
Hobbseethumper: surely that isn't true.02:49
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corvushttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1-telco-6.3/files03:11
corvussays:  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.03:11
corvusand has been for at least 10 minutes or so03:11
mwhudsongrr03:12
kikohmmm03:12
mwhudsoncorvus: try now03:13
corvusmuch better, thx03:13
kikomwhudson, memory, spinlocks, aliens or worse?03:18
mwhudsonkiko: some combination of some things like that yes03:18
kikoai ai03:19
kikomwhudson, known problem at least?03:19
mwhudsonkiko: we are aware there is a problem03:19
kikomwhudson, not what the source of it is? :)03:20
mwhudsonkiko: right03:23
mwhudsonat least, not very clearly03:23
lifelessmwhudson: server process going into lalaland?03:35
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mwhudsonlifeless: pretty much04:27
wgrantIs it deliberate that the tour looks like I've walked into an Apple ad rather than anything to do with Launchpad?05:58
beunowgrant, I think it's more of an accident than deliberate.  I know it's going to be changed soon-ish05:59
wgrantWasn't it only redesigned last week?05:59
wgrantAnd... erm... https://edge.launchpad.net/+tour/bugs contains stuff I've never seen before.06:00
beunowgrant, stuff like what?06:01
wgrantbeuno: That task table up the top is fake.06:01
wgrantBut the tour seems much better now, apart from some small things.06:01
beunowgrant, it is06:01
beunoto simplify it06:01
beunoalthough I think it can be done better06:02
beunoanyway, I know it will get changed soon, don't know to what extent yet  :)06:02
wgrantThe new tour is quite excellent.06:02
beunoplease file bugs if you can think of something you really think should be changed06:02
wgrantbeuno: Is launchpad-doc appropriate?06:08
beunowgrant, yeap, that's exactly it06:08
wgrantOh, doesn't exist.06:08
wgrantAh, -documentation.06:08
wgrantThe ML is -doc.06:08
beunooh, yes, I though you where being a lazy typer  :)06:09
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pepOnce a bug is set to "fix released", I think it is impossible to access it other than by the URL... Is this a wanted behaviour?08:03
Hobbseepep: advanced search08:03
geserpep: you can filter on only fix released bugs or look at all ever filed bugs08:04
pepRight, so you have to check the "fix released" box in the advanced search...08:04
pepI thought there would be a "show fixed bugs" option in the menu on the right, whilst browsing bugs related to a project/person/team ...08:05
wgrantpep: There is a filter. 'All bugs ever reported' or similar.08:05
pepwgrant: I didn't find that filter actually... The obly way is to go in advanced search, check 'fix released' in Status choice and then click search.08:08
peponly*08:08
pepnow of course I don't know if it is necessary to have that option directly in the menu... but I was a little surprised.08:09
kiko-afkpep, wgrant: one thing up for 3.0 is making the search filters that are active on any given search page visible and editable08:09
kiko-afkpep, wgrant: I hate that it's so obscure today08:09
pepwell I hate stumbling on things and thinking "oh... If I had seen that before..."08:10
wgrantkiko-afk: It is something that hasn't been touched in ages, and is a little strange, yes.08:11
kiko-afkwgrant, it's a bit hard to do because the code that does the filtering is kinda weird but.. so is everything else I guess! :)08:11
pepbut at least, when you report a bug, the fixed ones appear in the search for similarities, so I suppose that's the most important.08:11
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wgrantmpt: Are actions menus completely going away RSN, or are they being kept on subpages? They remain present on most now, which looks awful in a lot of cases due to badly thought out or hackish action titles.08:30
jameshwgrant: I believe the plan is to phase them out.  It is a manual process though -- they won't be removed without making sure you can still perform the actions08:33
wgrantjamesh: They've been phased out on bug and project pages for example, but the pages within those objects do not (and will not) have places to put the actions, so they retain an actions menu. I'm wondering if those are going stay.08:35
jameshwgrant: as the announcement said, I believe they will be phased out.  Mpt can confirm/deny though08:35
wgrantThe actions menu must either be kept or a small amount of little-used functionality must be dropped from those pages.08:35
jameshwell, some of the actions become the second row of tabs, like the (details | merging | source code) tabs on branch pages08:38
jameshthat's for cases where you are flipping between different views of an object08:38
jameshin other cases the actions get integrated into the page (like on bug pages)08:38
wgrantjamesh: I speak of cases like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/183162/+nominate08:41
wgrantI don't think there's anywhere for those links to go.08:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 183162 in launchpad-bazaar ""Branch URL" field is still editable when "Branch type" is set to "Hosted"" [Medium,Fix released]08:41
jameshwgrant: I'd assume they'd go on that page08:41
jamesh(don't quote me on it though)08:42
wgrantWhere on that page?08:42
wgrantOr do you mean "go" as in "be removed from"?08:42
jameshremoved: the point of that page is to do something and return to the previous view, right?08:42
jamesheither submitting the form or going back08:43
wgrantRight.08:43
persiaIs that the sort of action that is to be integrated into the page?08:45
jameshpersia: mpt always wants to reduce the number of page loads08:46
jameshso I'd guess he'd want to, yes.08:46
Hobbseemorning mrevell10:01
mrevellhey Hobbsee10:02
wgrantmrevell: Is the tour meant to convince people that they've been DNS-poisoned to the Apple website?10:02
Hobbseewgrant: only if it has the apple logo on it.10:02
mrevellwgrant: Heh, not quite.10:03
wgrantmrevell: It doesn't look like Launchpad, and it looks more like an Apple ad than anything else.10:04
wgrantBut the tour is otherwise good.10:04
mrevellwgrant: It'll look more like LP once we've got the header in there but I'm not sure it necessarily needs to look like Launchpad. It's aimed at people unfamiliar with LP. I'm pretty pleased with the look of it, but of course there's always room for improvement.10:05
Hobbseemrevell: wait, what?  the tour doesn't need to look like the product itself?10:05
wgrantmrevell: It needs a proper proofreading. I filed three bugs on it earlier, but there might be stuff I've missed.10:06
mrevellHobbsee: It needs to have screen shots etc that look like the product but I don't see why the tour should ape the style of LP itself. They have two different jobs: one is meant to make it easy to use the Launchpad applications, the other is meant to show what LP is.10:06
mrevellwgrant: Thanks, I'll take a look at those.10:06
* Hobbsee makes a note to look at said tour, but that does sound strange.10:08
LarstiQHobbsee: the bits of LP shown need to look like LP, but the rest?10:08
wgrantmrevell: I think the new tour is much more convincing and thorough than the old one.10:10
Hobbseelooks nice10:12
Hobbseewgrant: i don't think that looks like apple.10:12
Hobbseeshiny, yes.  but not apple.10:12
persiamrevell: I still don't like 使用するホームページを選択してください。  Are you sure about that?10:12
Hobbseeif anything, it looks like kde.10:12
Hobbseeer, kde4.10:13
mrevellpersia: A guy from the Japanese Ubuntu translations team gave it the thumbs-up. He said he was a native speaker. I can ask for more people to review it, if you're uncomfortable with it.10:13
Hobbseemrevell: right, so the tour is about what launchpad could do, not what it actually looks, feels, and works like.10:13
HobbseeLarstiQ: fair enough10:13
mrevellHobbsee: Sure. Although there are examples of what it looks like.10:13
persiamrevell: Nope.  This is a case of my poor understanding then: I just usually don't see that construction.10:14
* Hobbsee is sure a lot of this is poached from kde4 marketing, and recoloured.10:14
Hobbseeall the little people.10:14
mrevellpersia: Cool.10:14
mrevellHobbsee: Oi! It's all original work, I'll have you know :)10:15
Hobbseeoh, wait.  these ones have heads.10:15
Hobbseemrevell: okay then :)10:15
wgrantDoes anybody else find https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/+new-guided to be cluttered and hard to read?10:16
* Hobbsee bleck.10:16
Hobbseetoo much text.  no images.10:16
wgrantIt doesn't seem to be an optimal font+size for a large amount of body text.10:16
Hobbseeand yay for unprofessional button text.10:16
wgrantAnd the excessive bolding might not help.10:17
* Hobbsee goes and reads the page, after the initial comments.10:17
mrevellwgrant: I'll take a look at how we can make the page easier on the ye10:17
Hobbseewgrant: did you report the missing "this" on that page?10:17
mrevells/ye/eye10:17
Hobbseescratch that.  who wrote this, and what had they had to drink at the time?10:18
wgrantHobbsee: I gave up trying to read it, but I'll look and file it.10:18
Hobbseewgrant: file a bug on the entire thiing.  it's shocking.10:18
mrevellHobbsee: That's an interesting point you raise about the button text. Much of the Launchpad interface text is quite casual. Do you see that as a problem?10:18
Hobbseemrevell: i don't really notice it with the other buttons.10:18
Hobbseemrevell: so, not on those.  but i do see it as a problem with this page.10:18
wgrantmrevell: Very little Launchpad text is casual now.10:18
mrevellHobbsee: Buttons tend to be quite to the point10:18
Hobbseemrevell: i'm very aware that various ESL people may not recognise the expressions, either.10:19
Hobbseea registration facility....these projects go to college or something?10:20
* Hobbsee tries to figure exactly what is the worst thing on that page.10:20
mrevellwgrant: Feel free to assign the bug to me, when you file it.10:20
Hobbseemrevell: do you want a whole list of things that are wrong with that page?10:21
Hobbseefor fixing before the next rollout?10:21
wgrantIt has a similar problem to the one I referenced in bug #246594. It has an excessive amount of text.10:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 246594 in launchpad-bazaar "Registering a code import from a series is clunky." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24659410:21
mrevellHobbsee: Sure. I can see what I personally would like to change but if there are specific things you want to highlight, go for it.10:22
wgrantOnly a couple of places in Launchpad have such an issue.10:22
wgrantMost of it is nice and terse.10:22
Hobbseedoes one normally need a LP ID for shipit?10:31
jameshyes10:31
Hobbseeah10:31
jameshalthough the requirement will eventually become just an authentication account10:31
Hobbseemrevell: right, i have a screen of preliminary, unedited thoughts on it.10:37
mrevellHobbsee: Cool, thanks. Unedited is fine :) Wanna email/pastebin me?10:38
Hobbseemrevell: http://pastebin.ca/1088253 is a start.10:40
mrevellthanks Hobbsee10:40
Hobbseemrevell: surely you should consider saying that *after* you've read it?  :P10:41
Hobbseeyou may not want to thank me at all :P10:41
mrevellHobbsee: I appreciate the effort :)10:41
wgrantkiko__: I think many Ubuntu people will disagree with your wontfixing of bug #253380. It is a legitimate problem.10:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 253380 in malone "Launchpad falsely claims distribution Importance == package Importance" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25338010:41
jameshone thing I miss from the new LP theme is distinct silhouettes for icons10:50
jameshthey're all circles now10:50
wgrantI wonder when they'll make the people circular.10:52
persiawgrant: The release team has already worked around that, and mostly ignores Importance whn determining what must be fixed for a given milestone (as I understand it).10:56
wgrantpersia: Workarounds are not fixes.10:57
mrevelldanilos: Hello!10:58
danilosmrevell: hi there10:58
persiawgrant: I guess.  Still, having two importances would be confusing to me: I'd rather just have it be per-package.10:58
wgrantpersia: I think the bug importance could perhaps be multiplied by an importance assigned to the package.11:00
persiawgrant: implicitly?  That would make a lot of sense.11:00
wgrantpersia: Right.11:00
wgrantBecause that's what we do now.11:00
wgrantExcept we all do it differently, and it's difficult to be efficient.11:01
persiaRight.11:01
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mptGooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!14:00
wgrantEvening mpt.14:01
Ursinhahi wgrant14:03
Ursinhajust saw a bug you've opened14:03
Ursinhaand asked for some more info, can you take a look at it, please? It's bug 25353214:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 253532 in launchpad "Some forms have required fields, others have optional ones" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25353214:04
wgrantUrsinha: Sure, looking now.14:05
Ursinhawgrant, thanks!14:05
wgrantUrsinha: I unfortunately can't recall an example for the former case, but there are at least a couple of pages around where fields are marked with '(Required)'14:06
wgrantLet me see if I can find one...14:07
Ursinhawgrant, you mean they're marked as required but aren't?14:07
wgrantUrsinha: No. Most Launchpad forms have optional fields marked with '(Optional)', with required fields having no marking.14:08
wgrantOn some pages, required fields are marked with '(Required)', and optional ones have no marking.14:08
Ursinhahm, ok14:08
wgrantI presume using a different form lib.14:08
jameshwgrant: good deduction.  The newer forms should alls be using (Optional)14:09
Hobbseewgrant: and most of the times, the fields marked (Optional) aren't required, too!14:12
ScottKExcept when they are.14:13
ScottKMy favorite being the patch description field.14:13
wgrantOK, I've found one page - <ProjectSeries>/+addpackage. But I presume from what jamesh said they're trivial to find.14:13
ScottKIt's marked optional and it is, unless you actually want to add a patch.14:13
BowasiluHow should I manage releases of a project that is released in binary form? Of course I should be able to look at the underlying code for each release. Would I branch after each release?14:30
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kiko__Bowasilu, not necessarily. what do you mean by released in binary form?16:05
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Bowasilukiko: It is released as an .app file for Mac OS X.16:05
radixBowasilu: you could tag every time you do a release16:06
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Bowasiluradix: That sounds good. Then I mark those revisions as "release x" and I am done.16:07
radixright16:07
BowasiluThings are so obvious if one knows them...16:07
ignashi16:08
kikoBowasilu, oh, you keep the binary in revision control too?16:09
Bowasilukiko: Hm. No, it is not in revision control. I am probably missing the point of your question.16:10
TodoInTXEdwinGrubbs: ping!16:10
radixBowasilu: I think kiko got confused by the fact that you mentioned binary releases at all -- this isn't a problem that is particular to binary releases16:13
radixBowasilu: but indeed any software which gets released16:13
radixit's useful to know which revision a release was made from16:14
Ursinhawgrant, still there?16:27
HobbseeUrsinha: he'll be long asleep.16:27
UrsinhaHobbsee, oh16:28
HobbseeUrsinha: east coast of australia - it's 1.28am.16:28
Ursinhahahaha oh, ok Hobbsee, thanks16:28
* Hobbsee should go to bed.16:28
kikosiretart, ping?16:30
* Bowasilu forgot to thank radix and does this now.16:31
radix:-)16:32
siretartkiko: pong16:43
kikosiretart, I'm on the phone with mark, but can we chat in about 1h or so?16:44
siretartkiko: I just returned in my office, but have a (small) meeting in a few minutes. I'm available for the conference after that16:44
siretartkiko: excellent!16:44
calchow do i delete something from a ppa tht is in dep-wait? i don't see the option to delete it16:49
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ScottKcalc: Did you find the general deletion link?  I think it's the same.16:53
calcScottK: i don't see it no17:04
calcScottK: i was wondering if it doesn't show up if the packages are in dep-wait17:04
ScottKIt's kind of hidden (IMO)17:04
calcScottK: how do you get to it?17:04
ScottKLooking so I can explain it17:04
calcunless it is really hidden i think its not there at all, heh17:05
ScottKThe first time I looked it took me a while to find it with the new U/I17:05
calcsorry i am dumb17:06
ScottKYou found it?17:06
calcsomehow i got logged out of LP again17:06
calcthats been happening for unknown reasons several times recently17:06
calcyea now that i am actually logged in i see the delete button17:06
calcScottK: if i delete a package from a ppa that didn't build can i reupload the same version number?17:16
cprovcalc: no, uploaded versions are blacklisted like in the primary archive.17:17
cprovcalc: you have to upload a higher version.17:17
calcoh ok17:19
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siretartkiko: ping?17:33
kikosiretart, still on! will ping you17:34
siretartokay :)17:34
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kikosiretart, ping? off the phone! ready to get on again :)18:10
siretartcool!18:12
kikosiretart, so, can we start in 8 minutes?18:12
kikosiretart, if you want to test the conf setup to ensure it works..18:12
siretartyou mean I shall call the freecall phone number you sent me?18:13
kikoyep18:13
siretart"the leader has not yet arrived, please stand by"18:15
siretartseems to work, I'd say18:15
siretartI hang up and call again when you ping me, okay?18:15
kikoyep18:15
kikosiretart, T-518:15
siretartk18:16
kikosiretart, okay, conf is up18:19
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Rinchen 18:52
Rinchen>> Launchpad Dev Team meeting in #launchpad-meeting at 18:00 UTC. Come join us.18:52
Rinchen 18:52
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siretarthttp://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/07/msg00647.html19:11
kiko-phonysiretart, woo, good call, thanks!19:13
siretart:)19:14
siretartkiko-phony: this is the bug I was talking about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/25236819:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 252368 in launchpad "Automatically associate DD and DM accounts with GPG keys in keyring packages" [Undecided,New]19:15
kiko-phonythanks!19:16
siretartkiko-phony: you wanted to forward an updated list, right?19:18
kiko-phonysiretart, I will do that as soon as my launchpad meeting is over.19:18
siretartaaah, I see19:19
kiko-phonyrock on19:19
siretartuuh, meeting has started 18minutes ago, right?19:20
siretartme gf is gonna kill me if I not return home right now ;)19:20
kiko-phonyheh19:20
kiko-phonyokay! sorry! :)19:20
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emgentsiretart: take a look in Motu-ml some problem with REVU uploads.19:29
lamalexCan someone tell me how to delete a branch in this new UI?20:01
kikolamalex, there's a little round button with a minus in it20:02
kikoit's next to the branch title20:02
lamalexah ha20:02
kikoI was totally surprised until I found it :)20:02
lamalexThe old way was much nicer20:02
lamalex"delete this branch"20:03
kikolamalex, any change takes some getting used to. have you ever moved furniture around? :)20:05
lamalexwell thanks for your help kiko20:05
kikoyou're welcome!20:05
lamalexkiko: yes, but any change is not always good change20:05
ScottK+120:05
kikolamalex, agreed, but I don't think you can decide that in the space of days. :)20:05
lamalexI can hide my chair in a closet, I may still be able to sit in it, but I would hardly say that that's the best place for it20:05
mtaylorlamalex: depends on how large and nice your closet is...20:06
beunokiko, when you're done with the LP meeting, could you nuke a comment on a bug?  I'm trying to teach LP to a non-techie, and he hasn't quite understood how email works  :)   https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/easyark/+bug/253715/comments/220:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 253715 in easyark "Should we comply with XDG Base Directory Specification?" [Wishlist,Confirmed]20:06
kikobeuno, you need to ask a question for that, I can't myself :-(20:06
lamalexmtaylor: any closet suficiently large enough to make placing a chair in it a good decision, probably no longer really falls under the category of closet space20:07
mtaylor:)20:07
beunokiko, ah, ok, will do. Thanks.20:08
lamalexah am I interupting LP meeting?20:08
kikolamalex, noooo. it's in #launchpad-meeting.20:09
lamalexah ok good20:09
lamalex:)20:09
lamalexoh20:09
* lamalex reads rest of topic20:09
lamalexI stopped at 1800UTC :{20:09
lamalexs/{/P20:09
kikoheh20:09
kikoaliens20:11
kikoscary20:11
lamalexanyway, thanks for the help guys. later20:12
=== Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Next meeting, all welcome: Thu 7 Aug 2008, 1800UTC #launchpad-meeting | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Questions and spam reports: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Code Scanner is back!
Rinchennext meeting date20:16
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