[00:29] <NCommander> cprov, ping?
[00:29] <kiko> NCommander, I think he's kinda out -- it's 20:30 his time
[00:30] <NCommander> kiko, argh. he said he'd message me later, and well, later is here :-P
[02:01] <Hobbsee> now, why did i just get an email?
[02:02] <Hobbsee> ah.  because i'm still an admin.
[02:48] <thumper> Hobbsee: I was going to say "because someone loves you"
[02:49] <Hobbsee> thumper: aww :)
[02:49] <Hobbsee> thumper: surely that isn't true.
[03:11] <corvus> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1-telco-6.3/files
[03:11] <corvus> says:  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
[03:11] <corvus> and has been for at least 10 minutes or so
[03:12] <mwhudson> grr
[03:12] <kiko> hmmm
[03:13] <mwhudson> corvus: try now
[03:13] <corvus> much better, thx
[03:18] <kiko> mwhudson, memory, spinlocks, aliens or worse?
[03:18] <mwhudson> kiko: some combination of some things like that yes
[03:19] <kiko> ai ai
[03:19] <kiko> mwhudson, known problem at least?
[03:19] <mwhudson> kiko: we are aware there is a problem
[03:20] <kiko> mwhudson, not what the source of it is? :)
[03:23] <mwhudson> kiko: right
[03:23] <mwhudson> at least, not very clearly
[03:35] <lifeless> mwhudson: server process going into lalaland?
[04:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: pretty much
[05:58] <wgrant> Is it deliberate that the tour looks like I've walked into an Apple ad rather than anything to do with Launchpad?
[05:59] <beuno> wgrant, I think it's more of an accident than deliberate.  I know it's going to be changed soon-ish
[05:59] <wgrant> Wasn't it only redesigned last week?
[06:00] <wgrant> And... erm... https://edge.launchpad.net/+tour/bugs contains stuff I've never seen before.
[06:01] <beuno> wgrant, stuff like what?
[06:01] <wgrant> beuno: That task table up the top is fake.
[06:01] <wgrant> But the tour seems much better now, apart from some small things.
[06:01] <beuno> wgrant, it is
[06:01] <beuno> to simplify it
[06:02] <beuno> although I think it can be done better
[06:02] <beuno> anyway, I know it will get changed soon, don't know to what extent yet  :)
[06:02] <wgrant> The new tour is quite excellent.
[06:02] <beuno> please file bugs if you can think of something you really think should be changed
[06:08] <wgrant> beuno: Is launchpad-doc appropriate?
[06:08] <beuno> wgrant, yeap, that's exactly it
[06:08] <wgrant> Oh, doesn't exist.
[06:08] <wgrant> Ah, -documentation.
[06:08] <wgrant> The ML is -doc.
[06:09] <beuno> oh, yes, I though you where being a lazy typer  :)
[08:03] <pep> Once a bug is set to "fix released", I think it is impossible to access it other than by the URL... Is this a wanted behaviour?
[08:03] <Hobbsee> pep: advanced search
[08:04] <geser> pep: you can filter on only fix released bugs or look at all ever filed bugs
[08:04] <pep> Right, so you have to check the "fix released" box in the advanced search...
[08:05] <pep> I thought there would be a "show fixed bugs" option in the menu on the right, whilst browsing bugs related to a project/person/team ...
[08:05] <wgrant> pep: There is a filter. 'All bugs ever reported' or similar.
[08:08] <pep> wgrant: I didn't find that filter actually... The obly way is to go in advanced search, check 'fix released' in Status choice and then click search.
[08:08] <pep> only*
[08:09] <pep> now of course I don't know if it is necessary to have that option directly in the menu... but I was a little surprised.
[08:09] <kiko-afk> pep, wgrant: one thing up for 3.0 is making the search filters that are active on any given search page visible and editable
[08:09] <kiko-afk> pep, wgrant: I hate that it's so obscure today
[08:10] <pep> well I hate stumbling on things and thinking "oh... If I had seen that before..."
[08:11] <wgrant> kiko-afk: It is something that hasn't been touched in ages, and is a little strange, yes.
[08:11] <kiko-afk> wgrant, it's a bit hard to do because the code that does the filtering is kinda weird but.. so is everything else I guess! :)
[08:11] <pep> but at least, when you report a bug, the fixed ones appear in the search for similarities, so I suppose that's the most important.
[08:30] <wgrant> mpt: Are actions menus completely going away RSN, or are they being kept on subpages? They remain present on most now, which looks awful in a lot of cases due to badly thought out or hackish action titles.
[08:33] <jamesh> wgrant: I believe the plan is to phase them out.  It is a manual process though -- they won't be removed without making sure you can still perform the actions
[08:35] <wgrant> jamesh: They've been phased out on bug and project pages for example, but the pages within those objects do not (and will not) have places to put the actions, so they retain an actions menu. I'm wondering if those are going stay.
[08:35] <jamesh> wgrant: as the announcement said, I believe they will be phased out.  Mpt can confirm/deny though
[08:35] <wgrant> The actions menu must either be kept or a small amount of little-used functionality must be dropped from those pages.
[08:38] <jamesh> well, some of the actions become the second row of tabs, like the (details | merging | source code) tabs on branch pages
[08:38] <jamesh> that's for cases where you are flipping between different views of an object
[08:38] <jamesh> in other cases the actions get integrated into the page (like on bug pages)
[08:41] <wgrant> jamesh: I speak of cases like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/183162/+nominate
[08:41] <wgrant> I don't think there's anywhere for those links to go.
[08:41] <jamesh> wgrant: I'd assume they'd go on that page
[08:42] <jamesh> (don't quote me on it though)
[08:42] <wgrant> Where on that page?
[08:42] <wgrant> Or do you mean "go" as in "be removed from"?
[08:42] <jamesh> removed: the point of that page is to do something and return to the previous view, right?
[08:43] <jamesh> either submitting the form or going back
[08:43] <wgrant> Right.
[08:45] <persia> Is that the sort of action that is to be integrated into the page?
[08:46] <jamesh> persia: mpt always wants to reduce the number of page loads
[08:46] <jamesh> so I'd guess he'd want to, yes.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> morning mrevell
[10:02] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee
[10:02] <wgrant> mrevell: Is the tour meant to convince people that they've been DNS-poisoned to the Apple website?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> wgrant: only if it has the apple logo on it.
[10:03] <mrevell> wgrant: Heh, not quite.
[10:04] <wgrant> mrevell: It doesn't look like Launchpad, and it looks more like an Apple ad than anything else.
[10:04] <wgrant> But the tour is otherwise good.
[10:05] <mrevell> wgrant: It'll look more like LP once we've got the header in there but I'm not sure it necessarily needs to look like Launchpad. It's aimed at people unfamiliar with LP. I'm pretty pleased with the look of it, but of course there's always room for improvement.
[10:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: wait, what?  the tour doesn't need to look like the product itself?
[10:06] <wgrant> mrevell: It needs a proper proofreading. I filed three bugs on it earlier, but there might be stuff I've missed.
[10:06] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It needs to have screen shots etc that look like the product but I don't see why the tour should ape the style of LP itself. They have two different jobs: one is meant to make it easy to use the Launchpad applications, the other is meant to show what LP is.
[10:06] <mrevell> wgrant: Thanks, I'll take a look at those.
[10:08]  * Hobbsee makes a note to look at said tour, but that does sound strange.
[10:08] <LarstiQ> Hobbsee: the bits of LP shown need to look like LP, but the rest?
[10:10] <wgrant> mrevell: I think the new tour is much more convincing and thorough than the old one.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> looks nice
[10:12] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i don't think that looks like apple.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> shiny, yes.  but not apple.
[10:12] <persia> mrevell: I still don't like 使用するホームページを選択してください。  Are you sure about that?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> if anything, it looks like kde.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> er, kde4.
[10:13] <mrevell> persia: A guy from the Japanese Ubuntu translations team gave it the thumbs-up. He said he was a native speaker. I can ask for more people to review it, if you're uncomfortable with it.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> mrevell: right, so the tour is about what launchpad could do, not what it actually looks, feels, and works like.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> LarstiQ: fair enough
[10:13] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sure. Although there are examples of what it looks like.
[10:14] <persia> mrevell: Nope.  This is a case of my poor understanding then: I just usually don't see that construction.
[10:14]  * Hobbsee is sure a lot of this is poached from kde4 marketing, and recoloured.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> all the little people.
[10:14] <mrevell> persia: Cool.
[10:15] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Oi! It's all original work, I'll have you know :)
[10:15] <Hobbsee> oh, wait.  these ones have heads.
[10:15] <Hobbsee> mrevell: okay then :)
[10:16] <wgrant> Does anybody else find https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/+new-guided to be cluttered and hard to read?
[10:16]  * Hobbsee bleck.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> too much text.  no images.
[10:16] <wgrant> It doesn't seem to be an optimal font+size for a large amount of body text.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> and yay for unprofessional button text.
[10:17] <wgrant> And the excessive bolding might not help.
[10:17]  * Hobbsee goes and reads the page, after the initial comments.
[10:17] <mrevell> wgrant: I'll take a look at how we can make the page easier on the ye
[10:17] <Hobbsee> wgrant: did you report the missing "this" on that page?
[10:17] <mrevell> s/ye/eye
[10:18] <Hobbsee> scratch that.  who wrote this, and what had they had to drink at the time?
[10:18] <wgrant> Hobbsee: I gave up trying to read it, but I'll look and file it.
[10:18] <Hobbsee> wgrant: file a bug on the entire thiing.  it's shocking.
[10:18] <mrevell> Hobbsee: That's an interesting point you raise about the button text. Much of the Launchpad interface text is quite casual. Do you see that as a problem?
[10:18] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i don't really notice it with the other buttons.
[10:18] <Hobbsee> mrevell: so, not on those.  but i do see it as a problem with this page.
[10:18] <wgrant> mrevell: Very little Launchpad text is casual now.
[10:18] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Buttons tend to be quite to the point
[10:19] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i'm very aware that various ESL people may not recognise the expressions, either.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> a registration facility....these projects go to college or something?
[10:20]  * Hobbsee tries to figure exactly what is the worst thing on that page.
[10:20] <mrevell> wgrant: Feel free to assign the bug to me, when you file it.
[10:21] <Hobbsee> mrevell: do you want a whole list of things that are wrong with that page?
[10:21] <Hobbsee> for fixing before the next rollout?
[10:21] <wgrant> It has a similar problem to the one I referenced in bug #246594. It has an excessive amount of text.
[10:22] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sure. I can see what I personally would like to change but if there are specific things you want to highlight, go for it.
[10:22] <wgrant> Only a couple of places in Launchpad have such an issue.
[10:22] <wgrant> Most of it is nice and terse.
[10:31] <Hobbsee> does one normally need a LP ID for shipit?
[10:31] <jamesh> yes
[10:31] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:31] <jamesh> although the requirement will eventually become just an authentication account
[10:37] <Hobbsee> mrevell: right, i have a screen of preliminary, unedited thoughts on it.
[10:38] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Cool, thanks. Unedited is fine :) Wanna email/pastebin me?
[10:40] <Hobbsee> mrevell: http://pastebin.ca/1088253 is a start.
[10:40] <mrevell> thanks Hobbsee
[10:41] <Hobbsee> mrevell: surely you should consider saying that *after* you've read it?  :P
[10:41] <Hobbsee> you may not want to thank me at all :P
[10:41] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I appreciate the effort :)
[10:41] <wgrant> kiko__: I think many Ubuntu people will disagree with your wontfixing of bug #253380. It is a legitimate problem.
[10:50] <jamesh> one thing I miss from the new LP theme is distinct silhouettes for icons
[10:50] <jamesh> they're all circles now
[10:52] <wgrant> I wonder when they'll make the people circular.
[10:56] <persia> wgrant: The release team has already worked around that, and mostly ignores Importance whn determining what must be fixed for a given milestone (as I understand it).
[10:57] <wgrant> persia: Workarounds are not fixes.
[10:58] <mrevell> danilos: Hello!
[10:58] <danilos> mrevell: hi there
[10:58] <persia> wgrant: I guess.  Still, having two importances would be confusing to me: I'd rather just have it be per-package.
[11:00] <wgrant> persia: I think the bug importance could perhaps be multiplied by an importance assigned to the package.
[11:00] <persia> wgrant: implicitly?  That would make a lot of sense.
[11:00] <wgrant> persia: Right.
[11:00] <wgrant> Because that's what we do now.
[11:01] <wgrant> Except we all do it differently, and it's difficult to be efficient.
[11:01] <persia> Right.
[14:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[14:01] <wgrant> Evening mpt.
[14:03] <Ursinha> hi wgrant
[14:03] <Ursinha> just saw a bug you've opened
[14:04] <Ursinha> and asked for some more info, can you take a look at it, please? It's bug 253532
[14:05] <wgrant> Ursinha: Sure, looking now.
[14:05] <Ursinha> wgrant, thanks!
[14:06] <wgrant> Ursinha: I unfortunately can't recall an example for the former case, but there are at least a couple of pages around where fields are marked with '(Required)'
[14:07] <wgrant> Let me see if I can find one...
[14:07] <Ursinha> wgrant, you mean they're marked as required but aren't?
[14:08] <wgrant> Ursinha: No. Most Launchpad forms have optional fields marked with '(Optional)', with required fields having no marking.
[14:08] <wgrant> On some pages, required fields are marked with '(Required)', and optional ones have no marking.
[14:08] <Ursinha> hm, ok
[14:08] <wgrant> I presume using a different form lib.
[14:09] <jamesh> wgrant: good deduction.  The newer forms should alls be using (Optional)
[14:12] <Hobbsee> wgrant: and most of the times, the fields marked (Optional) aren't required, too!
[14:13] <ScottK> Except when they are.
[14:13] <ScottK> My favorite being the patch description field.
[14:13] <wgrant> OK, I've found one page - <ProjectSeries>/+addpackage. But I presume from what jamesh said they're trivial to find.
[14:13] <ScottK> It's marked optional and it is, unless you actually want to add a patch.
[14:30] <Bowasilu> How should I manage releases of a project that is released in binary form? Of course I should be able to look at the underlying code for each release. Would I branch after each release?
[16:05] <kiko__> Bowasilu, not necessarily. what do you mean by released in binary form?
[16:05] <Bowasilu> kiko: It is released as an .app file for Mac OS X.
[16:06] <radix> Bowasilu: you could tag every time you do a release
[16:07] <Bowasilu> radix: That sounds good. Then I mark those revisions as "release x" and I am done.
[16:07] <radix> right
[16:07] <Bowasilu> Things are so obvious if one knows them...
[16:08] <ignas> hi
[16:09] <kiko> Bowasilu, oh, you keep the binary in revision control too?
[16:10] <Bowasilu> kiko: Hm. No, it is not in revision control. I am probably missing the point of your question.
[16:10] <TodoInTX> EdwinGrubbs: ping!
[16:13] <radix> Bowasilu: I think kiko got confused by the fact that you mentioned binary releases at all -- this isn't a problem that is particular to binary releases
[16:13] <radix> Bowasilu: but indeed any software which gets released
[16:14] <radix> it's useful to know which revision a release was made from
[16:27] <Ursinha> wgrant, still there?
[16:27] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: he'll be long asleep.
[16:28] <Ursinha> Hobbsee, oh
[16:28] <Hobbsee> Ursinha: east coast of australia - it's 1.28am.
[16:28] <Ursinha> hahaha oh, ok Hobbsee, thanks
[16:28]  * Hobbsee should go to bed.
[16:30] <kiko> siretart, ping?
[16:31]  * Bowasilu forgot to thank radix and does this now.
[16:32] <radix> :-)
[16:43] <siretart> kiko: pong
[16:44] <kiko> siretart, I'm on the phone with mark, but can we chat in about 1h or so?
[16:44] <siretart> kiko: I just returned in my office, but have a (small) meeting in a few minutes. I'm available for the conference after that
[16:44] <siretart> kiko: excellent!
[16:49] <calc> how do i delete something from a ppa tht is in dep-wait? i don't see the option to delete it
[16:53] <ScottK> calc: Did you find the general deletion link?  I think it's the same.
[17:04] <calc> ScottK: i don't see it no
[17:04] <calc> ScottK: i was wondering if it doesn't show up if the packages are in dep-wait
[17:04] <ScottK> It's kind of hidden (IMO)
[17:04] <calc> ScottK: how do you get to it?
[17:04] <ScottK> Looking so I can explain it
[17:05] <calc> unless it is really hidden i think its not there at all, heh
[17:05] <ScottK> The first time I looked it took me a while to find it with the new U/I
[17:06] <calc> sorry i am dumb
[17:06] <ScottK> You found it?
[17:06] <calc> somehow i got logged out of LP again
[17:06] <calc> thats been happening for unknown reasons several times recently
[17:06] <calc> yea now that i am actually logged in i see the delete button
[17:16] <calc> ScottK: if i delete a package from a ppa that didn't build can i reupload the same version number?
[17:17] <cprov> calc: no, uploaded versions are blacklisted like in the primary archive.
[17:17] <cprov> calc: you have to upload a higher version.
[17:19] <calc> oh ok
[17:33] <siretart> kiko: ping?
[17:34] <kiko> siretart, still on! will ping you
[17:34] <siretart> okay :)
[18:10] <kiko> siretart, ping? off the phone! ready to get on again :)
[18:12] <siretart> cool!
[18:12] <kiko> siretart, so, can we start in 8 minutes?
[18:12] <kiko> siretart, if you want to test the conf setup to ensure it works..
[18:13] <siretart> you mean I shall call the freecall phone number you sent me?
[18:13] <kiko> yep
[18:15] <siretart> "the leader has not yet arrived, please stand by"
[18:15] <siretart> seems to work, I'd say
[18:15] <siretart> I hang up and call again when you ping me, okay?
[18:15] <kiko> yep
[18:15] <kiko> siretart, T-5
[18:16] <siretart> k
[18:19] <kiko> siretart, okay, conf is up
[18:52] <Rinchen>  
[18:52] <Rinchen> >> Launchpad Dev Team meeting in #launchpad-meeting at 18:00 UTC. Come join us.
[18:52] <Rinchen>  
[19:11] <siretart> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/07/msg00647.html
[19:13] <kiko-phony> siretart, woo, good call, thanks!
[19:14] <siretart> :)
[19:15] <siretart> kiko-phony: this is the bug I was talking about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/252368
[19:16] <kiko-phony> thanks!
[19:18] <siretart> kiko-phony: you wanted to forward an updated list, right?
[19:18] <kiko-phony> siretart, I will do that as soon as my launchpad meeting is over.
[19:19] <siretart> aaah, I see
[19:19] <kiko-phony> rock on
[19:20] <siretart> uuh, meeting has started 18minutes ago, right?
[19:20] <siretart> me gf is gonna kill me if I not return home right now ;)
[19:20] <kiko-phony> heh
[19:20] <kiko-phony> okay! sorry! :)
[19:29] <emgent> siretart: take a look in Motu-ml some problem with REVU uploads.
[20:01] <lamalex> Can someone tell me how to delete a branch in this new UI?
[20:02] <kiko> lamalex, there's a little round button with a minus in it
[20:02] <kiko> it's next to the branch title
[20:02] <lamalex> ah ha
[20:02] <kiko> I was totally surprised until I found it :)
[20:02] <lamalex> The old way was much nicer
[20:03] <lamalex> "delete this branch"
[20:05] <kiko> lamalex, any change takes some getting used to. have you ever moved furniture around? :)
[20:05] <lamalex> well thanks for your help kiko
[20:05] <kiko> you're welcome!
[20:05] <lamalex> kiko: yes, but any change is not always good change
[20:05] <ScottK> +1
[20:05] <kiko> lamalex, agreed, but I don't think you can decide that in the space of days. :)
[20:05] <lamalex> I can hide my chair in a closet, I may still be able to sit in it, but I would hardly say that that's the best place for it
[20:06] <mtaylor> lamalex: depends on how large and nice your closet is...
[20:06] <beuno> kiko, when you're done with the LP meeting, could you nuke a comment on a bug?  I'm trying to teach LP to a non-techie, and he hasn't quite understood how email works  :)   https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/easyark/+bug/253715/comments/2
[20:06] <kiko> beuno, you need to ask a question for that, I can't myself :-(
[20:07] <lamalex> mtaylor: any closet suficiently large enough to make placing a chair in it a good decision, probably no longer really falls under the category of closet space
[20:07] <mtaylor> :)
[20:08] <beuno> kiko, ah, ok, will do. Thanks.
[20:08] <lamalex> ah am I interupting LP meeting?
[20:09] <kiko> lamalex, noooo. it's in #launchpad-meeting.
[20:09] <lamalex> ah ok good
[20:09] <lamalex> :)
[20:09] <lamalex> oh
[20:09]  * lamalex reads rest of topic
[20:09] <lamalex> I stopped at 1800UTC :{
[20:09] <lamalex> s/{/P
[20:09] <kiko> heh
[20:11] <kiko> aliens
[20:11] <kiko> scary
[20:12] <lamalex> anyway, thanks for the help guys. later
[20:16] <Rinchen> next meeting date