[09:09]  * e-jat down down down 
[09:32] <gonzopancho> is there an agenda for today (yet)?
[09:44] <persia> gonzopancho: For which meeting?
[09:44] <gonzopancho> the mobile / umpc meeeting?
[09:44] <persia> gonzopancho: I think so: I'll look.
[09:45] <gonzopancho> am I early?  (I'm in Hawaii, so -10 GMT, and its 22:45 here
[09:46] <persia> You are early.  It's at 16:00 UTC, which is in about 7 and a quarter hours.
[09:46] <persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080731 (when we get then)
[09:47] <persia> Only item is to move the meeting 5 hours earlier, which might be better for you :)
[09:47] <persia> Err.  4 hours (I can't do math today)
[09:50] <gonzopancho> i see, thanks.   its gonna suck getting up at 5am
[09:51] <gonzopancho> otherwise, has anyone attempted to build the 'mobile' stack for an amd geode yet?  (or should it just work?)
[09:52] <persia> gonzopancho: That's likely more on-topic for #ubuntu-mobile : join me there after I do a bit of processor research
[11:56] <davmor2> oh :)
[13:53] <pitti> hello
[13:54] <nhandler> Good morning pitti
[13:54] <pitti> hey nhandler
[13:55] <pedro_> hello!
[13:56]  * mvo waves
[13:57]  * MacSlow greets the funky bunch
[13:59] <seb128> hello
[13:59] <mvo> hey seb128
[13:59] <nhandler> Hello seb128
[14:00] <MacSlow> salut seb128
[14:00] <pitti> hello everyone
[14:00] <pitti> FYI, current template with activity reports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-31
[14:02] <pitti> I didn't see any agenda items on anyone's report, did I miss any?
[14:02] <pitti> how is everyone doing with their spec implementations? four weeks to go :)
[14:02]  * MacSlow feels the heat
[14:03] <pitti> anything which is falling behind which we need to address?
[14:04] <MacSlow> pitti, I got to check a few things with gdm upstream (user-switching, guest-account)
[14:04] <MacSlow> hey kwwii
[14:04] <kwwii> hi MacSlow
[14:04] <pitti> MacSlow: that's actually an interesting topic; is the face browser now aimed at intrepid+1, or can we port it to 2.20?
[14:05] <pitti> there was a small discussion with upstream recently about the wealth of missing features, so it doesn't look like it's intrepidable
[14:05] <MacSlow> pitti, not yet... but Mark made clear he wants to know for sure about the user-switching and guest-account
[14:06] <pitti> MacSlow: guest account in which sense? if he means the one we are doing (gdm-guest-account spec, from Prague), that's already in intrepid now
[14:06] <pitti> I patched our current gdm (2.20)
[14:06] <MacSlow> I can cc you the reply from William (on of gdm's upstream devs) once I get it
[14:06]  * seb128 hugs pitti for the good work on the guest account
[14:06] <pitti> :)
[14:07] <seb128> MacSlow: what did you ask upstream?
[14:07] <pitti> seb128: well, I don't feel *that* proud about it TBH, since it's not exactly an upstreamable solution, but the gdm situation is too difficult right now :(
[14:07] <MacSlow> seb128, about fast-user-switching
[14:07] <pitti> mvo: got any feedback about the sandbox upgrader yet? nice work!
[14:07] <seb128> pitti: well, that's not your fault, upstream just ignored your mail on the list
[14:08] <mvo> pitti: little so far, i guess it is still running for most people ;)
[14:08] <pitti> seb128: they actually replied two days ago, but it didn't really help; they just talked about how they use selinux, and with a differnet set of requirements
[14:08] <pitti> mvo: heh
[14:09] <seb128> pitti: ah, they didn't copy the list on the reply, the only thing on the list was Jon asking about the new gdm issues
[14:09] <mvo> seb128: btw, do you have moderation powers on the gnomecc list? my mail about the systemwide prefs seems to be stuck there
[14:10] <seb128> mvo: theorically I'm the moderator I think but I lost the password ages ago and didn't manage to get somebody giving me it or a new one
[14:10] <mvo> pitti: but if I get nothing by tomorrow I think I will sent a mail to ubuntu-devel asking specifically for testing
[14:10] <seb128> mvo: can I rant about people mailing lists but not bothering subscribing to read replies, avoid moderation, etc? ;-)
[14:10] <pitti> mvo: you should do that anyway, I think
[14:10] <mvo> seb128: you can, but I will ignore you :P
[14:11] <seb128> mvo: alright, so I'll ignore your mail in the moderation queue :-P
[14:11]  * pitti points out that mailman has a nice option to disable mail delivery; subscription shouldn't hurt then
[14:11] <mvo> seb128: seriously, I didn't expect it to be moderated (but then I guess its impossible without nowdays because of the spam)
[14:11] <seb128> well, I don't get why mailing a list if you are not interested by the replies there
[14:12] <MacSlow> hey mpt
[14:12] <mpt> hello
[14:12] <seb128> seems to be polite behaviour to subscribe when you ask something to a list so people can reply to the list
[14:12] <mvo> seb128: I wrote in my mail that people should CC me, but I guess I will just subscribe
[14:12] <mpt> Sorry, forgot the meeting time
[14:12] <seb128> rather than ask people to break their workflow
[14:12] <seb128> hey mpt
[14:12] <pitti> well, frankly that annoys me as well
[14:13] <pitti> I don't want to sub an entire list just for a single question
[14:13] <seb128> mvo: I'll try to get the moderation password but I can't guarantee I'll get a reply ;-)
[14:13] <pitti> but anyway, side discussion
[14:13] <mvo> *shrug* its not that much of a "break-workflow" to ask for a CC IMNSHO
[14:13] <pitti> mvo: especially not with reply-to and m-f-t
[14:13] <seb128> mvo: and half of the people will do "reply to the list", forgot, "ups"
[14:13] <seb128> and you got context lost, fragmentation in the thread, etc
[14:13] <seb128> or they will just reply to all on every mail in the thread
[14:14] <seb128> but right
[14:14] <seb128> that's not on-topic there
[14:14] <pitti> MacSlow: f-u-s isn't in 2.22 either?
[14:14] <seb128> pitti: the applet is in gdm now
[14:14] <seb128> and it's available and working the same way
[14:14] <pitti> ah, nice
[14:14] <seb128> they didn't rename the .server so I doesn't break configs on upgrade
[14:15] <MacSlow> pitti, I didn't see any of that mentioned in gdm's ChangeLog nor hints in the code (well at least where I looked)
[14:15] <MacSlow> pitti, I'm waiting for upstreams reply on the issue... also I don't know that Jon or Ray might already have in their local repositories pending to be pushed upstream
[14:16] <pitti> MacSlow: so, can you please followup with Mark and explain the situation? Unless a miracle happens, I don't think that the new gdm will be ready in time for intrepid...
[14:16] <pitti> if that's a "must have", well, then we have to invent something
[14:16] <pitti> but it would be nice to know our requirements as early as possible
[14:17] <MacSlow> pitti, Mark already asked me to do that in yesterday's call... I'm at it
[14:17] <pitti> ok, thanks
[14:17] <pitti> everyone else happy with their spec progress then?
[14:18] <seb128> pitti: well technically we could use the new gdm, FC9 uses it and it's working for basic purpose = login
[14:18] <MacSlow> so and so, but it's just not normal in my case I guess
[14:18] <seb128> but I think it would be a slap in the face for users for no real win
[14:18] <pitti> *nod*
[14:19] <MacSlow> seb128, there are rumours that F10 will revert back to the old gdm
[14:19] <seb128> lol
[14:19] <seb128> where did you read those?
[14:19] <pitti> so, sponsoring queue: I checked it, and there seems to be just one bug which isn't fresh, bug 185171
[14:19] <MacSlow> seb128, Mark and Matt
[14:19] <pitti> seb128: that's on your desk; any problem with it, or just "not important enough to do right now"?
[14:19] <seb128> ok, not rumours then, just jokes
[14:19] <kwwii> I think that you need to look at which features are missing and how important they are vs. doing something new on a more bleading edge release
[14:20] <kwwii> btw, are there packages for the new gdm?
[14:20] <seb128> no
[14:20] <MacSlow> nope
[14:20] <kwwii> I'd like to look into how the themeing works
[14:20] <seb128> I pushed the packaging to the ubuntu-desktop bzr, you just have to run debuild there
[14:20] <mvo> bzr!
[14:20] <MacSlow> kwwii, not at all.
[14:20] <seb128> but themes are not applied
[14:20] <pitti> wasn't that one of the things which are still missing?
[14:21] <seb128> users login at first boot doesn't work
[14:21] <seb128> and power management actions don't work
[14:21] <pitti> seb128: pm> not even now, that CK ships the PM scripts?
[14:21] <seb128> there is no theming in the new gdm
[14:21] <kwwii> i wonder how many people sleep from gdm
[14:21] <kwwii> and no themeing makes my life easier :p
[14:21] <MacSlow> kwwii, and theming the simple-greeter vs. the graphical-greeter will be different... I told you a bit about thos .json files during the sprint
[14:21] <mvo> no theming == easier life for kwwii
[14:22] <seb128> pitti: the issue is that gnome-power-manager doesn't has the session cookie environment set
[14:22] <kwwii> MacSlow: right, we should discuss that more after my vacation
[14:22] <pitti> kwwii: I regularly use gdm for shutting down, but actually just because shutdown from the session is broken :)
[14:22] <seb128> pitti: so there is no ck session available
[14:22] <pitti> seb128: ah, still that
[14:22] <seb128> I didn't debug further since the sprint
[14:22] <seb128> too many other things to do
[14:22] <MacSlow> kwwii, actually I don't want to discuss or do meetings at all and just get my head around gdm
[14:22] <seb128> things we need for intrepid ;-)
[14:22] <pitti> some weird execve which forgets about the env?
[14:23] <seb128> that would be weird
[14:23] <seb128> especially that the same code works on fedora
[14:23] <pitti> ok, -> off meeting discussion, I think
[14:23] <seb128> I'm wondering if those got dbus activated or something
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: what's with the sponsoring bug?
[14:24] <pitti> oh, and please everyone hug seb128 for doing sponsor queue management last and this week
[14:24]  * MacSlow hugs seb128 
[14:25] <seb128> pitti: the libgnome one? will sponsor that later
[14:25] <pitti> ok, so no problems there
[14:25] <pitti> splendid
[14:25] <pitti> so, AOB?
[14:25] <seb128> I did already quite some sponsoring this week, would be nice if other people (out of pitti) would clean their list too
[14:25] <pitti> (except free ice cream for all *sweat*)
[14:25]  * mvo did his bit today
[14:25] <seb128> so dholbach doesn't have a chock when he will look at the list
[14:26] <pitti> seb128: I checked the queue for the desktop team, looks quite good actually
[14:26] <pitti> I already uploaded my bits (it's a bit out of date), mvo commited his two, the rest is !desktop
[14:26] <seb128> pitti: right, I did sponsor almost all the desktopish things pending yesterday ;-)
[14:26] <seb128> right
[14:26] <pitti> so we are doing quite well there
[14:27] <seb128> we should have a competition between platform and desktop team for sponsoring
[14:27] <pitti> ok, seems we are done then?
[14:27] <seb128> that would perhaps motive those to clean the list too ;-)
[14:27] <pitti> seb128: double-karma sponsoring days? :-)
[14:27] <seb128> :-)
[14:27] <seb128> nothing to add to the meeting from me
[14:27] <pitti> oh, Scott has quite a few open, but he's not here today, so...
[14:28] <pitti> so, thank you everyone
[14:28] <mvo> thanks
[14:28] <MacSlow> ok
[14:28] <pitti> happy hacking, desktop team!
[14:29] <seb128> thanks
[14:55] <persia> If anyone is waiting for the Java meeting, we'll hold it in #ubuntu-java this week due to the schedule conflict.
[15:02] <persia> Java people to #ubuntu-java please.  Mentoring Meeting here now.
[15:02] <huats> :)
[15:02] <huats> thanks persia
[15:02] <huats> :)
[15:02] <huats> norsetto: leave me 2 minutes brb
[15:04] <norsetto> there is fun stuff to be found poking around, like /usr/bin/dh_undocumented
[15:05] <nhandler> lol "This program does nothing and should no longer be used."
[15:06] <persia> At least it doesn't use  /usr/share/man/man7/undocumented.7.gz as the manpage while doing nothing.
[15:06] <huats> norsetto: back
[15:07] <norsetto> huats: ok, I wonder if we should wait for porthose and nxvl
[15:07] <huats> I think we can wait for them 5 minutes
[15:07] <huats> I am not that hurry
[15:07] <huats> I just have to leave at 16:00 UTC
[15:07] <porthose> I'm here
[15:07] <huats> great
[15:07] <huats> ok
[15:08] <huats> so i think it is different since nxvl is abroad
[15:08] <huats> ...
[15:08] <norsetto> ah ok, porthose is here, we just miss nxvl which is lost in the Florida's everglades
[15:08] <norsetto> well, ok, lets start, everybody happy with the agenda?
[15:08] <huats> yep
[15:08] <nhandler> I'm good with the agenda
[15:08] <porthose> yep
[15:09] <norsetto> I'm just amazed at how time flies, its more than one month since our first meeting!
[15:09] <porthose> that long?
[15:10] <norsetto> point 1, status of new requests, everybody has the status handy?
[15:10]  * porthose finding it
[15:10] <norsetto> I have 4 names in the list
[15:11] <norsetto> porthose: you mentioned that hanno wanted to have some time before be given a mentor?
[15:11] <porthose> yes but that time has elapsed
[15:12] <norsetto> porthose: ok, perhaps we should ping him then, anybody volunteer?
[15:12] <huats> I can try ...
[15:13] <norsetto> huats: its not that difficult, I'm sure you can manage it ;-)
[15:13] <huats> norsetto: ok so I'll contact him...
[15:13] <huats> but "after" monday
[15:14] <norsetto> huats: thx, we have 2 mentors available, so, it should not be a problem to pair him
[15:14] <porthose> I can probably try before that :)
[15:15] <norsetto> porthose: huats won't be available to do anything before monday anyway, so lets share some of the tasks
[15:15] <porthose> k
[15:15] <norsetto> what about james d carroll?
[15:15] <norsetto> I don't think we heard from him again!?
[15:16] <porthose> not that I know of
[15:16] <porthose> have never heard of  him
[15:16] <huats> I am really sorry about that...
[15:17] <huats> (I mean not being able to do stuffs before monday)
[15:17] <norsetto> porthose: all his emails were circulated on the m.l.
[15:17] <norsetto> porthose: on the 18th of July
[15:18] <norsetto> lets ping him just in case, perhaps you want to do that porthose?
[15:18] <porthose> hmm then I have been missing a lot of mail then grrrr (stupid ISP) I have had this problem before
[15:18] <norsetto> porthose: ok, no problem, I'll forward them to your email address now
[15:18] <porthose> thx
[15:19] <norsetto> porthose: ok, sent them
[15:19] <nhandler> Here is the email porthose: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-July/004231.html
[15:20] <norsetto> finally, what about James Emerson?
[15:21] <norsetto> we should probably wait until nxvl is back, he was in contact with him
[15:21] <huats> norsetto: I agree with you...
[15:21] <porthose> Works for me
[15:21] <huats> (wait for nxvl on that one)
[15:21] <norsetto> anybody else I'm missing? If not, lets go to point 2
[15:22] <norsetto> huats: you were working on this?
[15:22] <huats> go ahead
[15:22] <huats> :)
[15:22] <huats> yeah
[15:22] <huats> so far I have continue to try to contact some more
[15:22] <huats> but I have not any news...
[15:22] <huats> I'll ping them again
[15:23] <norsetto> who do we have to consider as missing?
[15:23] <huats> I think it is important to ask the mentor in the old system what to do with their mentee
[15:24] <huats> let me check...
[15:24] <norsetto> huats: that would be point 4, anyhow, for the old list, I think the status is pretty clear
[15:25] <huats> norsetto: it is not that clear to me :)
[15:25] <norsetto> huats: well, there is you to start with, so, you should know about you :-)
[15:25] <huats> I  was thinking about sending an email to the various mentor to ask them about that... and ask them if they wanted (of course resulting an agreement of their mentee) to switch in the new system
[15:25] <huats> ...
[15:25] <huats> ggrrrr
[15:25] <huats> I don't find the list...
[15:26] <huats> let me really check :)
[15:26] <norsetto> huats: we did that already. to continue, asac is working well with jazzva and dfiloni
[15:26] <norsetto> huats: TheMuso and AstralJava I have no idea what they are doing
[15:26] <huats> ok great
[15:27] <huats> same for me...
[15:27] <norsetto> huats: and jr is still stuck with Lydia Pintscher
[15:27] <huats> jr : apparently their are working
[15:27] <huats> not very very activly but working
[15:28] <norsetto> huats: so, what I really don't know is what slomo, mvo, raphink and jcorbier are doing, or want to do
[15:28] <huats> I already answer for some of them :)
[15:28] <huats> (from memory)
[15:29] <huats> mvo is ok to get one
[15:29] <huats> (like right now...)
[15:29] <huats> same for raphink...
[15:29] <huats> (I think I have updated the doc for that a long time ago...)
[15:29] <raphink> hello
[15:29] <raphink> what's it ?
[15:29] <norsetto> yes, they are still quoted as mentors
[15:30] <norsetto> raphink, we were discussing about mentors
[15:30] <huats> :)
[15:30] <norsetto> I'm glad to see you are still on board ;-)
[15:30] <raphink> I'm still a mentor if someone needs me
[15:30] <huats> (remember we already talked about that :))
[15:30] <raphink> norsetto: I'm always on freenode ;)
[15:30] <raphink> norsetto: I'm a ftpmaster at my work, I manage the Debian repository here, the buildd, and am the referrent packager
[15:31] <raphink> so I mentor people at work as part of my paid activity
[15:31] <norsetto> raphink: thats cool
[15:31] <raphink> I've always said that I was available if someone needs mentoring ;)
[15:31] <raphink> but if no one comes, I'm not going to look for people to teach ;)
[15:31] <huats> raphink: sure
[15:31] <huats> :)
[15:31] <porthose> cool
[15:31] <norsetto> raphink: yes, we have you down as a mentor for the senior program
[15:31] <raphink> the senior program?
[15:32] <huats> norsetto: you know french are never looking for extra work
[15:32] <huats> ...
[15:32] <huats> :)
[15:32] <raphink> huats:  :p
[15:32] <norsetto> raphink: would you want to be considered for newcomers too?
[15:32] <raphink> what is the senior program ?
[15:32] <huats> norsetto: honnestly I am not sure that the new process has been really detailed by most mentors...
[15:32] <norsetto> raphink: yes, people that wants to apply for mentorship
[15:32] <norsetto> huats: yes ...
[15:33] <huats> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[15:33] <huats> you have all the details
[15:33] <huats> :)
[15:33] <norsetto> huats: thats why we need to talk with them, one by one
[15:33] <huats> norsetto: I talked to most of them, but it was before the new process
[15:33] <huats> :)
[15:33] <raphink> norsetto: I think I can help with senior
[15:34] <raphink> I juts have to keep up-to-date with common practices that change often
[15:34] <huats> raphink: if you have any questions just ping one of us (norsetto, porthose, nxvl or me)
[15:34] <raphink> freeze stuff and techniques
[15:34] <raphink> huats: ok
[15:34] <norsetto> huats: anyhow, no news from slomo or jcorbier I gather?
[15:34] <raphink> I'm in touch with nxvl quite a bit lately
[15:34] <huats> norsetto: nope
[15:34] <huats> nothing at all
[15:34] <huats> I have tried to ping them many many timeS...
[15:34] <porthose> havn't seen them on IRC
[15:35] <huats> I will send them an email, not really sure if it will work better..
[15:35] <norsetto> right, ok, we should remove them from the list then, there is no point in keeping them there
[15:35] <huats> norsetto: ok
[15:35] <huats> and I'll send them the email and we can add them back after...
[15:35] <norsetto> ok
[15:36] <norsetto> lets go to point 3, we are running short on time
[15:36] <norsetto> any idea on how we could recruit new mentors?
[15:37] <norsetto> what I have been doing so far was talking with new motus and now new uuc to ask them if they would have liked to do it
[15:37] <huats> norsetto: I think it is hard to do something else...
[15:38] <nhandler> norsetto: I would suggest offering something to new mentors. Currently, the only reason for a mentor to apply would be to get the good feeling that comes with helping new contributors. This doesn't work for everyone. If you had some special privilege/reward for mentors, you would probably attract a lot more.
[15:38] <huats> may be we can launch from time to time (twice a year) a call for mentor...
[15:38] <norsetto> huats: well, I also tried to send announcment through motu m.l. but that was not very succesfull ...
[15:38] <huats> nhandler: not sure about a reward...
[15:38] <huats> norsetto: I know...
[15:39] <porthose> yea this is a tough one
[15:39] <huats> this is probably because people are quite busy :)
[15:39] <norsetto> nhandler: like what? What can we give to motivate volunteers?
[15:39] <norsetto> nhandler: like you for instance ;-)
[15:40] <porthose> what more is there than MOTU?
[15:40] <porthose> you already have all the priviliges
[15:40] <nhandler> norsetto: I'm not really sure. I just enjoy helping new contributors.
[15:40] <norsetto> porthose: being active in mentoring is a definite plus for motuship
[15:40] <porthose> true but we are talking a motivator
[15:41] <huats> norsetto: from my point of view, people who want to help are already in the program...
[15:41] <norsetto> porthose: well, not just mentoring, helping new contributors in general, but surely investing your time is seen very positively
[15:41] <huats> I mean to have a mentee
[15:41] <norsetto> porthose: beside, there is quite a lot to be learned by being a mentor
[15:41] <porthose> yes and I agree
[15:41] <huats> but for somethers they help with another way (answering on IRC...)
[15:41] <norsetto> huats: yes
[15:41] <porthose> I learn something new every day
[15:42] <nhandler> norsetto: Maybe we should work to make it a requirement for UCDs to become mentors for a period of time prior to becoming MOTUs
[15:42] <norsetto> ok, we will keep talking on a private base as we have been doing so far, and perhaps sending out remonder once or twice a year
[15:42] <cjwatson> I would expect mentoring MOTUs to be a significant credit for a core developer application
[15:42] <norsetto> nhandler: no, that we can't do, we can't oblige people to be involved with mentoring (one way or another)
[15:43] <porthose> good idea
[15:43] <norsetto> cjwatson: yes, that also I would expect
[15:43] <cjwatson> it's part of the broader understanding of the system that one needs to acquire in order to be a core developer
[15:43] <huats> cjwatson: +1
[15:43] <norsetto> cjwatson: but that needs to be somehow "enforced" by the TB ...
[15:45] <norsetto> ok, shall we continue to next point, unless anyone wants to add anything?
[15:45] <porthose> +1
[15:46] <norsetto> for the mailing list, I don't have any news beside the fact that our request was rejected and we reapplied to rt
[15:46] <norsetto> that was 9 days ago, I heard nothing more since then
[15:47] <porthose> what were the reasons for rejection?
[15:47] <norsetto> our "private"ml seems to be working ok though
[15:47] <norsetto> porthose: because it was motu
[15:47] <porthose> aaahhh
[15:47] <huats> fine by me
[15:48] <norsetto> don't ask me what is really behind it, I have no clue
[15:48] <porthose> any way new m.l. works for me :)
[15:48] <norsetto> yes, works for me too, a great kudos to huats!
[15:49] <norsetto> huats for president!
[15:49] <norsetto> ops, no, can't do, he is already president ...
[15:49] <porthose> hehe
[15:49] <Hobbsee> norsetto: was this a launchpad-based list that you applied for?
[15:49] <norsetto> ok, lets go to the last but one point, interface with the school
[15:49] <huats> norsetto: LOL
[15:49] <norsetto> Hobbsee: yes
[15:50] <huats> I am already :D
[15:50] <Hobbsee> norsetto: ahh.  TB has strongly recommended that the ubuntu mailing lists go to lists.ubuntu.com
[15:50] <Hobbsee> (which is why yours would have been rejected)
[15:50] <norsetto> Hobbsee: right, that would explain it
[15:51] <Hobbsee> norsetto: try poking jcastro directly, and filing at rt@ubuntu.com to get it done (you'll need to do both, most likely)
[15:51] <Hobbsee> anyway, sorry norsetto, go on :)
[15:51] <norsetto> Hobbsee: yes, been there, done that ;-)
[15:51] <Hobbsee> ah
[15:51] <porthose> norsetto: that was a good maintainer script lecture thx :)
[15:52] <norsetto> Hobbsee: not at all, thanks for popping in
[15:53] <norsetto> porthose: well, after you realised that you could have done things in a different, perhaps better way, but anyhow, my point is that james_w is all alone to run the show, so, he wouldn't mind if we can help
[15:53] <norsetto> in particular in finding new lecturers
[15:53] <nhandler> I am giving a lecture in 2 weeks
[15:53] <norsetto> people linke our good friend nhandler!
[15:54] <james_w> hey all
[15:54] <nhandler> Hi james_w
[15:54] <norsetto> hi james_w, we were discussing how we (the reception) could help you with the school
[15:55] <norsetto> james_w: I was saying with looking for new lecturers, but perhpas you have other ideas?
[15:55] <huats> hi james_w
[15:55] <james_w> yeah, new lecturers is the important thing for now
[15:56] <norsetto> james_w: what we do right now, is to personally go and talk with all uuc and new MOTU to incite them to get forward
[15:56] <james_w> If we have sessions weekly say then help with other things may be appreciated
[15:56] <james_w> yeah, that's a good idea, thanks
[15:57] <norsetto> other than that, I don't know what we could do, perhaps a good idea would be to try and ask the mentee what they would like to see as lessons
[15:57] <norsetto> which is mainly filling in the school wiki page
[15:58] <norsetto> ok, I will draft a letter to all mentees asking them to let us know what is it they feel they need and would like to be covered in the school
[15:58] <norsetto> anything else?
[15:58] <porthose> :)
[15:58] <huats> norsetto: great idea...
[15:59] <james_w> yeah, good idea norsetto
[15:59] <huats> I think you are rigth...
[15:59] <huats> may be instead of searching for lecturers
[15:59] <huats> we can start knowing the subjects
[15:59] <huats> and then ask for volunteer...
[16:00] <huats> (it means to take the problem from the other side...)
[16:00] <norsetto> huats: the problem is that its easier to find lectures that volunteer to give "their" lesson than to give a lesson which is felt needed by somebody else
[16:00] <huats> but we can try to have both side :)
[16:01] <norsetto> huats: yes, we can and we shall
[16:01] <huats> and may be also, it might interesting to ask mentors what they think their previous mentess were lacking...
[16:01] <norsetto> ok, I think we still have another our before the next meeting, so we can continue if you want
[16:02] <huats> because a mentee might not know what he is missing while a mentor will...
[16:02] <norsetto> huats: yes
[16:03] <norsetto> ok, so I will draft a letter to all mentors, mentees and the motu-mentors m.l. to ask for their advice on this and circulate it through our m.l.
[16:04] <norsetto> who is volunteering to write minutes for this meeting?
[16:04] <huats> I can
[16:04] <huats> but after monday once again....
[16:04] <huats> (well may be before... in the plane)
[16:05] <norsetto> huats: that would be cool
[16:05] <huats> norsetto: ok
[16:05] <norsetto> its great to have you guys on-board!
[16:05] <huats> norsetto: it is great to have you too !!!
[16:05] <norsetto> what do you guys think? You like it so far?
[16:06] <huats> norsetto: I'll write them tonight if I can ... otherwise it'll be monday I am afraid...
[16:06] <norsetto> anything we should improve, change?
[16:06] <huats> norsetto: for the moment lots of stuffs have changed already
[16:06] <huats> (new process, new kind of team???
[16:06] <huats> )
[16:06] <porthose> :)
[16:06] <huats> so I think that will come later :)
[16:06] <norsetto> huats: well, I mean for the reception itself
[16:06] <huats> I know
[16:07] <huats> but I mean I think we'll feel the necessary changes onces we will be more used with all the new process
[16:07] <huats> ...
[16:08] <norsetto> do you think we are sufficient in number, or too many, or ....
[16:08] <porthose> not sure what you think :)
[16:09] <norsetto> I'm quite happy ;-)
[16:09] <norsetto> before I was all alone, that wasn't very fun ...
[16:09] <huats> quite happy so far :)
[16:09] <huats> but I am sure we can improve a lot
[16:09] <porthose> true
[16:09] <norsetto> we can and we must, so, don't hesitate to vent your thoughts
[16:10] <huats> (myself by instance I'll work lots more than what I can do rigth now...)
[16:10] <huats> :)
[16:10] <norsetto> huats: I hope ;-)
[16:10] <huats> for my self, as you know, I am just really busy with ubuntu-fr
[16:10] <norsetto> huats: hmmm, what about a mentoring reception t-shirt?
[16:10] <huats> it will be less the case in a few days :)
[16:10] <huats> LOL
[16:11] <porthose> lol
[16:11] <huats> that could be a way to get new mentors !!!
[16:11] <norsetto> huats: yes
[16:11] <norsetto> huats: with a big MENTOR on the back :-)
[16:12] <norsetto> huats: think we could do that? Could we get canonical to sponsor it ....?
[16:12] <porthose> or ubuntu staff hehe
[16:12] <norsetto> porthose: yes, STAFF for us :-)
[16:12] <huats> norsetto: I think it worth to ask...
[16:13] <norsetto> huats: how did you do for ubuntu-fr?
[16:13] <huats> norsetto: oh we (ubuntu-fr) have not asked anything to canonical...
[16:13] <huats> we are paying for it by ourself...
[16:13] <norsetto> huats: ok
[16:14] <norsetto> huats: well, if we have to shell some dosh, I'm for it
[16:14] <huats> :)
[16:14] <huats> shell some dosh ?
[16:14] <norsetto> huats: whats the minimum number for the order?
[16:15] <huats> no idea....
[16:15] <huats> we are printing them by ourself too...
[16:15] <huats> what do you mean by "shell some dosh" ?
[16:15] <norsetto> huats: ah, ok, so you buy the "blank" t-shirt and then print them
[16:16] <huats> norsetto: yep...
[16:16] <norsetto> huats: oh, thats from some comic I read I guess, pay some money
[16:16] <huats> ok
[16:16] <huats> :)
[16:16] <huats> I can ask my provider
[16:16] <norsetto> huats: please do
[16:17] <huats> but I know that they don't sell less than 100 shirts usually
[16:17] <huats> ...
[16:17] <huats> BUT I might ask her for a favor...
[16:17] <norsetto> huats: ah, ok, thats what I wanted to know
[16:17] <norsetto> huats: but I mean, this would be an extra on top of your other order :-)
[16:17] <huats> norsetto: yep
[16:18] <norsetto> huats: "sorry, we realised we need some more ..."
[16:18] <huats> but I think it is 100 of a kind...
[16:18] <huats> :)
[16:18] <huats> I'll asked her anyway
[16:18] <huats> :)
[16:18] <norsetto> ok, asking is free anyway
[16:18] <norsetto> invite her for dinner ;-)
[16:18] <porthose> flowers
[16:18] <huats> LOOL
[16:19] <huats> not sure everybody will agree....
[16:19] <norsetto> just remember to send geraldine out for the evening *cough*
[16:19] <porthose> lolol
[16:19] <norsetto> I mean, its a boring ubuntu dinner ...
[16:20] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[16:20] <norsetto> there we are, now we woke up the ingeniebro :-)
[16:20] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: news of nxvl? Was he eaten by any alligator by any chance?
[16:21] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, no news from him.. nothing at all, he might we waiting to her gf sister to finish showering lol :P xD
[16:21] <RoAkSoAx> s/we/be
[16:22] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yeah, I wouldn't be surprised
[16:22] <norsetto> ok, shall we adjourn?
[16:22] <porthose> +1
[16:22] <huats> +1
[16:22] <norsetto> +1
[16:23] <norsetto> ok, with +3 for and 0 against, we adjourn (sound of the mallet hitting the desk)
[16:23] <RoAkSoAx> jeez you made me woke up early to see the meeting, and you adjourn it :(
[16:24] <huats> :)
[16:25]  * norsetto goes and updates the senior list
[16:25] <huats> norsetto: ok
[16:38] <mdz> 8.10 release meeting starts in 20 minutes on this channel
[16:38] <mdz> (doesn't seem to be on the fridge calendar)
[16:43] <Hobbsee> there's a release meeting?
[16:47] <persia> The release meeting is at 16:00 UTC?  The mobile meeting is sceduled then.
[16:48] <persia> (We'll be extra quick)
[16:48] <sbeattie> persia: there's a rumor the mobile meeting happens over in #ubuntu-mobile?
[16:49] <persia> sbeattie: I suppose, although I hadn't heard the rumor, and as chair would have expected it :)
[16:52] <persia> So, Mobile meeting in #ubuntu-mobile in 10 minutes
[16:52] <mdz> slangasek: Keybuk is ill and will not be able to attend, seb128 will fill in for him
[16:52]  * slangasek nods
[17:01] <slangasek> morning, folks
[17:01] <mdz> good day
[17:01] <cjwatson> good afternoon
[17:01] <slangasek> looks like we have everyone who's expected, so let's go ahead and get started
[17:01] <seb128> hello
[17:02] <dendrobates> \o
[17:02] <mdz> slangasek: MootBot?
[17:02] <dendrobates> was this meeting always 2 hours?
[17:02] <mdz> dendrobates: no, I arbitrarily extended it on our calendars because it seemed so unlikely to be finished in one
[17:02] <slangasek> mdz: I don't know how to run MootBot; could you get the ball rolling with it?
[17:03] <mdz> slangasek: I could, but then I'd be stuck commanding it as it only listens to the chair
[17:03] <slangasek> oh
[17:03] <mdz> slangasek: #startmeeting to begin
[17:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[17:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:06. The chair is slangasek.
[17:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] milestoned bugs
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  milestoned bugs
[17:03] <mdz> slangasek: commands are [COMMAND] <text>, docs are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[17:03] <mdz> you've got it
[17:04] <mdz> slangasek: can you provide a [LINK] to the official list?
[17:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1322
[17:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1322
[17:04] <slangasek> was just fishing that out :)
[17:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
[17:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
[17:05] <slangasek> the first is the list of release-critical bugs milestoned for alpha-4, the second is the list of all bugs that have been targetted to intrepid
[17:05] <slangasek> since the first list is nice and short, I thought it would be good to have the other list to hand
[17:07] <slangasek> it looks like desktop and platform are the only ones with bugs that are blockers for alpha-4, so it'd be good to hear from the other teams whether they have concerns about any bugs not listed there
[17:07] <mdz> too bad it doesn't show assignees
[17:07] <heno> I have one from today that should go on that list if confirmed - bug 253686
[17:07] <seb128> slangasek: I've no clue about the kubuntu bugs, you would need Riddell for those
[17:08] <cjwatson> the one platform bug there (pulseaudio) was one that Luke thought he'd fixed on Tuesday but has been reported to regress, so needs him to have another look at it
[17:08] <dendrobates> slangasek: I asked the server team to start milestoning bugs and they should show up soon.
[17:08] <heno> that comes out of our daily smoke test work - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
[17:08] <cjwatson> I've /msged him in case he missed the reopens
[17:09] <slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-alpha-4 is the list showing assignees, but includes bugs that are not blockers as well
[17:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-alpha-4 is the list showing assignees, but includes bugs that are not blockers as well
[17:09] <slangasek> cjwatson: yes, I spoke with Luke about it yesterday, so he's aware
[17:10] <davmor2> Yes I found a couple of major issues with today's alternates hen has mentioned the one the other is the partitioning phase
[17:10]  * cjwatson eyeballs 253686
[17:11] <mdz> slangasek: perhaps it would be useful to go around to each of the key teams and get a summary of what's pending?
[17:11] <slangasek> dendrobates: please keep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting in mind when having them milestone bugs, since at this point I assume that anything that doesn't also get nominated for release is not a blocker for the milestone and will *not* be managed as such
[17:11] <dendrobates> slangasek: will do
[17:11] <slangasek> mdz: fair enough
[17:12] <slangasek> pgraner: can you start us off? what does the kernel team have pending in its corner for alpha-4?
[17:12] <mdz> since the milestone list sounds a bit sparse
[17:12] <davmor2> cjwatson: I've added the logs from the cd but they are tarbz2 for ease on my part bug 253691 is the other bug
[17:13] <pgraner> slangasek: at this point mostly clean up and bug squashing
[17:13] <pgraner> slangasek: we have got all the major stuff in now its polish
[17:15] <mdz> davmor2: you'll need to provide hardware information for 253686
[17:16] <slangasek> pgraner: is someone (ogasawara?) tracking the bugs listed on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/linux ? the kernel seems to account for a sizeable proportion of bugs that are targeted for intrepid as a whole; are these bugs given a high priority in the team?
[17:16] <mdz> pgraner: are there further kernel uploads planned between now and alpha 4?
[17:16] <davmor2> mdz: I'll install something in a bit and run the hardware test and link it to both bugs for you :)
[17:16] <mdz> slangasek: my understanding is that with the changes in intrepid, builds should take substantially less time and hopefully be less disruptive to release operations as a result
[17:17] <mdz> davmor2: thanks
[17:17] <mdz> slangasek: (kernel builds, that is)
[17:17] <cjwatson> the ports kernels are still not in place
[17:17] <cjwatson> I'd like to know what the plan is for those
[17:17] <cjwatson> this also includes the -386 kernel
[17:17] <lool> For linux-lpia, maintenance will be handled by USG
[17:17] <mdz> slangasek: [TOPIC] kernel team might be appropriate
[17:18] <slangasek> [TOPIC] kernel team
[17:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team
[17:18] <slangasek> mdz: right, as cjwatson mentions the kernel has been whittled down to the point that -386 is no longer included in the main build, which means we have kernel packages in main that have been left out-of-sync over a rather long period now
[17:18] <cjwatson> right now, there's lots of noise on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/intrepid_probs.html and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ that's accounted for by the kernel, and I'd like us to be able to clear that out soonish
[17:19] <pgraner> slangasek: they are tracked weekly,  most are in fix committed
[17:19] <cjwatson> so while the new kernel package organisation is less disruptive in terms of builds, it's created a new different kind of disruption
[17:19] <pgraner> we will be uploading a new kernel today
[17:20] <pgraner> cjwatson: we don't handle the ports kernels within the kernel team anymore
[17:20] <slangasek> having the ports in a separate package will be generally helpful if ports problems can be fixed without an upload of the main package; but I don't see how it makes sense to split off 386, build time alone has IME never been the main cost, so much as the expense of iterating a kernel build
[17:20] <mdz> pgraner: the nvidia issue is that the driver packages Recommend nvidia-settings, which is in universe.  that should probably be dropped to a Suggests
[17:20] <cjwatson> pgraner: I know, but the apparent effect that nobody is handling them is most unfortunate from an archive perspective
[17:21] <lool> pgraner: Hmm isn't armel on the kernel's team plate?  or is that considered a non-ports kernel already?
[17:21] <slangasek> pgraner: tracked weekly> glad to hear it, I wasn't sure if the high number of 'fix committed's was a coincidence :)
[17:21] <pgraner> slangasek: its part of our weekly meeting :-)
[17:21] <cjwatson> and I think we should take into account that in reality we *do* support the -386 kernel to some extent (LTSP)
[17:22] <cjwatson> so it's a bit odd to treat it as ports
[17:22] <mdz> is -386 relevant even for thin clients anymore?
[17:23] <mdz> we just put out a release with 5-year support for it which should suit legacy use cases just fine
[17:23] <cjwatson> frankly I care less about whether it's relevant than about the fact that it's in a halfway house right now
[17:24] <mdz> is this the first time this has been raised with the kernel team?
[17:24] <cjwatson> either we have the guts to delete it, or we keep it going, but right now it's sitting there getting in the way because nobody's upgrading it (and it would be quite easy to upgrade it simply by putting it back into mainline, as slangasek points out)
[17:25] <cjwatson> first time it's been raised coherently, I think - it's come up in casual conversation and it came up at the in-person release meeting in London but that unfortunately didn't have kernel representation
[17:25] <pgraner> cjwatson: its my understanding at UDS is was decided to be dropped out and community maintained. If we need to pick it back up we can, but is it necessary?
[17:25]  * pgraner was not at UDS
[17:25] <cjwatson> there seems to have been some optimism about community maintenance
[17:25] <pgraner> cjwatson: apparently
[17:26] <mdz> slangasek: sounds like a discussion to be taken offline. [ACTION]?
[17:26] <cjwatson> actually, there has been an upload of -386, but nobody has sorted out linux-meta for it, I think
[17:26] <cjwatson> which would be quite a simple task for somebody
[17:27] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson and slangasek to follow up with pgraner about details of the kernel package split
[17:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson and slangasek to follow up with pgraner about details of the kernel package split
[17:27] <cjwatson> ok
[17:27] <pgraner> ack
[17:27] <slangasek> anything else on the kernel side before moving on?
[17:28] <pgraner> not that I can think of right now
[17:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] server team
[17:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  server team
[17:28] <dendrobates> the only possible blocker is the degraded-raid work
[17:29] <slangasek> blocker for -4, or for intrepid as a whole?
[17:29] <dendrobates> I had wanted to get that into alpha-4, but I'm don't think the installer bits have been done.
[17:29] <dendrobates> or the grub bits.
[17:29] <cjwatson> Dustin was just talking with me about that earlier today
[17:29] <cjwatson> I think we'll cover it in our meeting on the 18th
[17:29] <dendrobates> ok.
[17:29] <cjwatson> I gave him some advice on how to proceed
[17:30] <dendrobates> ok, we don't have any blockers, then.
[17:31] <slangasek> anything big that's not a blocker, that you're working on between now and alpha-4?
[17:31] <slangasek> (big -> potentially disruptive)
[17:31] <dendrobates> we are waiting for many upstream code drops at this time.  likewise-open, possibly openldap 2.4.11 if debian picks it up.
[17:32] <slangasek> timing-wise, we might want to go ahead with 2.4.11 in advance of Debian due to the Debian release freeze
[17:32] <slangasek> I can coordinate that with mathiaz
[17:33] <dendrobates> ok
[17:33] <slangasek> anything else?
[17:33] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to discuss openldap 2.4.11 drop with mathiaz
[17:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to discuss openldap 2.4.11 drop with mathiaz
[17:34] <dendrobates> we are working on xen domU patches for the intrepid kernel
[17:34] <dendrobates> is should say 64bit patches
[17:34] <slangasek> xen's been universe-only before now, hasn't it?
[17:35] <dendrobates> yes, but we need to move domU only to main to have a fully supported amazon ec2 image.
[17:36] <slangasek> ok
[17:36] <slangasek> shall we move on?
[17:36] <mdz> slangasek: domU is the bit which is upstream, AIUI
[17:37] <dendrobates> yes, but there are issues with 64bit that RH has fixed, that are not upstream
[17:38] <dendrobates> I believe most  are in 2.6.27, and need to be backported.
[17:38] <dendrobates> or going to be.
[17:39] <slangasek> dendrobates: when are you expecting that to land in intrepid, btw?
[17:39] <slangasek> I trust that the upload itself will happen in a manner appropriate to the milestone schedules
[17:39] <dendrobates> chuck expects to be ready for for kernel team review next week.
[17:40]  * slangasek nods
[17:40] <dendrobates> it will depend on what changes thay want, if any.
[17:41] <slangasek> [TOPIC] mobile team
[17:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile team
[17:42] <slangasek> I spoke with David Mandala Tuesday since he wasn't going to be able to make the meeting today; there don't appear to be any concerns from his camp for alpha-4
[17:42] <lool> Right; we would like to publish new dailies soon which would become installer images for Ubuntu MID
[17:42] <lool> But that doesn't impact alpha 4
[17:43] <lool> We're also looking forward into replacing the installer in the new images
[17:43] <cjwatson> I extended an invitation to David today to have you lob installer problems over to us; might be faster than you guys trying to figure them out from scratch
[17:43] <slangasek> lool: is that anything you expect to need support from the release team on?  I think in the past mobile has been fairly self-sufficient in its image creation
[17:43] <lool> slangasek: Exactly; I don't expect we need support from release team
[17:44] <lool> In the past, we had to request last minute changes in e.g. lpia kernels when these were still in the main kernel
[17:44] <lool> But this isn't the case anymore
[17:44]  * slangasek nods
[17:44] <lool> cjwatson: Thanks a lot; I'll forward to persia who has been looking into this
[17:45]  * persia doesn't need an explicit forward :)
[17:45] <lool> slangasek: I'll raise any new mobile-related issue concerning alpha 4 to you if any pops up in between
[17:45] <slangasek> lool: sounds good then, thanks
[17:45] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
[17:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
[17:46]  * ogra notes thet the mobile team is here anyway, since you stole our booked channel :P
[17:46] <slangasek> heno: there are some other items on the agenda for talking about specific QA issues related to the milestone; but first, are there any red flags you know about that we should be made aware of?
[17:47] <heno> slangasek: only the bugs mentioned above
[17:47] <mdz> heno: any regressions identified from alpha 3 which should be fixed for alpha 4?
[17:48] <heno> just those AFAIK
[17:48] <heno> sbeattie: ^ ?
[17:48] <sbeattie> No regressions that I'm aware of, but I haven't been watching closely.
[17:49] <heno> we ran a series of automated installs on desktops and laptops yesterday, which went fine
[17:49] <slangasek> we do have <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937bc31b1c8bcfb08ad1874>, the list of problems severe enough to warrant mention in the alpha-3 release notes
[17:49] <heno> (that was alpha-3 though)
[17:49] <slangasek> I've milestoned all of these, and a number are already fixed
[17:49] <slangasek> (or partially fixed, as in the case of the PC speaker issue)
[17:50] <slangasek> (not all milestoned for alpha-4, but milestones set for each)
[17:50] <heno> thanks, we'll look at those
[17:52] <slangasek> ok, so it sounds like the big known regressions are the ones we've already identified during alpha-3, so no surprises on that front
[17:52] <slangasek> I trust the QA team will escalate any new showstoppers as they find them :)
[17:52] <heno> indeed :)
[17:52] <slangasek> [TOPIC] desktop team
[17:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  desktop team
[17:52] <slangasek> seb128: you're up
[17:53] <seb128> I don't have an overwiew of what everybody is doing since pitti only ask me to join the meeting 10 minutes before it started
[17:53] <seb128> but there is a new GNOME scheduled on monday
[17:53] <seb128> I've the "shutdown and reboot act as logout" on my list for next week
[17:53] <seb128> as well as the broken gnome-keyring ssh agent
[17:54] <slangasek> oh right, this is a 3-week milestone, which means we're offset against GNOME releases again :-)
[17:54] <slangasek> do you have a bug number for the latter?
[17:54] <seb128> otherwise pitti landed the guest account thing to gdm, that might require testing but should not break anything
[17:55] <seb128> bug #252498
[17:55] <slangasek> thanks, that looks like a bug to have a bit higher on the radar
[17:56] <seb128> I just triaged it, I was tracking http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=544554 which is the upstream bug in fact
[17:57] <slangasek> seb128: so overall, nothing too disastrous so far :)
[17:57] <seb128> no
[17:57] <heno> FWIW: We'll have some basic desktop test coverage like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ara/ldtp/test_results/intrepid/alpha-3/ also for alpha-4
[17:57] <seb128> and I don't think we expect big changes out of the new GNOME
[17:57] <seb128> and the new GNOME is only 2 weeks of upstream work so it should not change that much ;-)
[17:58] <slangasek> Riddell: are you here?
[17:58] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up directly with Riddell regarding milestoned Kubuntu bugs
[17:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up directly with Riddell regarding milestoned Kubuntu bugs
[17:59] <slangasek> [TOPIC] platform team
[17:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  platform team
[17:59] <slangasek> cjwatson: hi boss
[18:00] <cjwatson> pending for platform:
[18:00] <cjwatson>   - compcache (wins: significant memory reduction on live CD, and ability to see how much further we have to go to hit memory targets; possible problems: significant weirdness on live CD)
[18:01] <cjwatson>   - network-manager 0.7 (wins: 3G, system-wide configuration; possible problems: non-functional network, config upgrade failures)
[18:01] <cjwatson>   - X input hotplug (wins: more rational handling of multiple input devices, better configuration in future; possible problems: keyboard and mouse configuration upgrade)
[18:01] <cjwatson>   - OpenJDK in main (done, but lots of per-package cleanup to do)
[18:01] <cjwatson> plus the installer bugs that people keep inconsiderately coming up with :)
[18:02] <slangasek> right :)
[18:02] <mdz> cjwatson: talking of the live CD, any further fallout from aufs?
[18:02] <cjwatson> well, technically, I don't think we've seen any confirmed fallout from aufs yet
[18:02] <cjwatson> but no, not that I've seen so far
[18:02] <cjwatson> QA/kernel might have seen something
[18:03] <mdz> cjwatson: all of the above are landing for alpha 4?
[18:03] <pgraner> cjwatson: nothing from us
[18:03] <cjwatson> mdz: currently slated to, at any rate
[18:03] <mdz> cjwatson: asac is away until Monday, and would be doing the NM upload, yes?
[18:04] <cjwatson> yes
[18:04] <cjwatson> but alpha 4 is two weeks from now
[18:04] <mdz> indeed
[18:06] <mdz> cjwatson: any word on the changes to cdimage?
[18:06] <slangasek> so that gives us a fair window in which to shake down the new NM, but we'll want to have people agressively testing it in advance of the alpha
[18:06] <mdz> or rather, the supposition that changes will be identified which should be made to cdimage for this release
[18:06] <cjwatson> mdz: sorry, can you be more specific on what you're referring to?
[18:06] <slangasek> heno: is that something you could coordinate next week?
[18:06] <mdz> slangasek: maybe worth nominating a daily prior to alpha 4 for a hardware test run
[18:06] <heno> slangasek: can do
[18:07] <mdz> cjwatson: splitting up cdimage to help with the testing bottlenecks
[18:07] <cjwatson> oh, that. no, not as yet :-(
[18:07] <slangasek> mdz: in reference to NM specifically, or in general?
[18:07] <mdz> slangasek: NM
[18:07] <heno> we are testing daily on HW now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
[18:07] <slangasek> mdz: yes, can do
[18:07] <cjwatson> I missed my last RT call due to being sick, but will chase it next week
[18:07] <heno> we can include NM specifically in that
[18:07] <mdz> slangasek: since AIUI the test should exercise basic functionality there (bringing up the wired interface)
[18:08] <mdz> though of course wireless is probably more in need of it
[18:08] <slangasek> yes, I'd hope we would get testing of both with enough lead time to fix any major breakage for the alpha
[18:08] <heno> I'll add a note to the page to test both wired and wireless explicitly next week
[18:09] <cjwatson> in my previous tests, my failures have been Broadcom (allegedly fixed, need to test) and nm-applet crashes on upgrade which go away on restart
[18:09] <cjwatson> I'd recommend that testers take a copy of ~/.gconf first so that failures can be reproduced
[18:09] <pgraner> cjwatson: as far as I know rtg got done
[18:09] <slangasek> (since last cycle, the NM feedback from the published milestones was rather overwhelming and took some time to sort through)
[18:09] <cjwatson> pgraner: this was something different, a crash in network-manager
[18:10] <mdz> I put my hand up for at least one wired (forcedeth) and one wireless (iwl4965)
[18:10] <mdz> to test prior to alpha 4
[18:10] <cjwatson> (HAL stopped reporting a certain property for Broadcom that network-manager wanted)
[18:10] <pgraner> cjwatson: ah, ok there were a round of bcomm issues that he just got fixed
[18:10] <cjwatson> I'm sure asac would appreciate PPA testing
[18:11] <cjwatson> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/network-manager/ubuntu intrepid main
[18:11] <mdz> will do it today
[18:12] <heno> slangasek: I have a call in 10 min. could we cover other QA items soon?
[18:12] <heno> I see HW testing as an item
[18:12] <slangasek> yes, let's skip ahead a bit
[18:12] <slangasek> I think we've covered the NM topic adequately?
[18:13] <cjwatson> I think so
[18:13] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Hardware testing
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware testing
[18:13] <heno> We'll be working to automate basic installs of all the alternate/server images for alpha 4. This will not cover all the current install cases but should provide reproduceable smoke coverage.
[18:14] <slangasek> excellent
[18:14] <heno> we rand a batch of alpha-3 tests yesterday which went well#
[18:14] <heno> after shaking out some issues
[18:14] <heno> (this was actually the first automated intrepid run)
[18:15] <mathiaz> heno: what are you using to automate the -server installs ?
[18:15] <slangasek> is this tied directly to hardware certification? (I think that was what mdz meant when suggesting this topic item; not specifically an issue for alpha-4, but good to keep an eye on)
[18:15] <heno> Marc and I had a mini-sprint here yesterday and today
[18:15] <mdz> slangasek: we're in the process of converging the two
[18:15] <heno> mathiaz: they are run on your setup in London
[18:16] <mdz> slangasek: so we have a set of hardware which needs to be tested (for certification or otherwise), and we have a set of test cases to be run
[18:16]  * slangasek nods
[18:16] <mdz> slangasek: heno, Marc et al are working to make both of those things happen efficiently and repeatably
[18:16] <heno> right HW-cert testing should now also bring value to us pre-release
[18:16] <mathiaz> heno: right - I'
[18:16] <mathiaz> heno: I've been doing that during the hardy cycle
[18:17] <mathiaz> heno: using the hw in the london lab to run pre-release tests.
[18:17] <slangasek> heno: right - and resources are in place to review test failures, incl. hw test failures, and escalate to the appropriate developers?
[18:17] <mdz> slangasek: by the agenda item, I meant the combined test
[18:17] <slangasek> mdz: ok
[18:17] <heno> slangasek: that is still WIP
[18:18] <slangasek> heno: ok
[18:18] <mathiaz> heno: are test cases already run automatically ?
[18:18] <heno> mathiaz: no, they need to be launched
[18:18] <mathiaz> heno: ok
[18:18] <heno> as before
[18:18] <heno> though we are moving toward daily crons
[18:21] <slangasek> heno: I look forward to lots of good bug reports coming to us from the automated testing, then
[18:21] <heno> great :)
[18:22] <slangasek> going back to the agenda, we have several topics that I think have already been covered individually with the team leads, but let's flip through quickly in case anyone thinks of something to add
[18:22] <slangasek> [TOPIC] milestoned features
[18:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  milestoned features
[18:23]  * heno is on a call
[18:23] <slangasek> I think we've already covered above all the features that are targeted or landing for alpha-4
[18:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] general feature update
[18:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  general feature update
[18:24] <slangasek> one comment that I have here is that the technical overview for the alphas has been rather lacking in interesting technical content so far
[18:24] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
[18:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
[18:24] <slangasek> I haven't gotten any response yet from the ubuntu-marketing team to my requests to flesh this out
[18:24] <jcastro> slangasek: I can spin up for the next alpha for that
[18:25] <slangasek> so if there are particular features that you know have been implemented on your teams that you're proud of and want to highlight to users of our alphas, please let me or jcastro know about them
[18:26] <slangasek> (including right now, if you have something off the top of your head :)
[18:26] <mdz> I noticed that on a fresh install, I get a screen resolution applet on the panel which behaves similarly to the MacOS one
[18:26] <pgraner> slangasek: for kernel would the delta between the last alpha's changelog work/appropriate?
[18:26] <cjwatson> noted, I'll see what I can do next week
[18:26] <mathiaz> slangasek: samba 3.2 ?
[18:27] <slangasek> pgraner: maybe picking one or two highlights that are significant advancements over the hardy kernel?
[18:27] <slangasek> probably not just "we fixed bugs" ;)
[18:27] <pgraner> slangasek: got it, will get it to you
[18:28] <slangasek> mathiaz: <-- biased, please tell me (off-line) what you think we should say :)
[18:28] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to write up the new screen resolution applet for the alpha-4 technical overview
[18:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to write up the new screen resolution applet for the alpha-4 technical overview
[18:29] <mathiaz> slangasek: ok
[18:29] <slangasek> moving on
[18:29] <slangasek> [TOPIC] known regressions
[18:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  known regressions
[18:29] <slangasek> we've already covered the ones that were identified in alpha-3
[18:29] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937
[18:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937
[18:30] <slangasek> gr, no
[18:30] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937bc31b1c8bcfb08ad1874
[18:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937bc31b1c8bcfb08ad1874
[18:30] <slangasek> there
[18:30] <mdz> are folks still seeing usplash issues?
[18:31] <mdz> the corrupted progress bar, e.g.
[18:31] <pgraner> mdz: I am on my MacAir with the framebuffer
[18:31] <slangasek> there will be some tweaks made to our bug tracking over the next week or so to try to give us a better handle on regression-tracking in general; this has been discussed on ubuntu-devel, but we'll get some wiki documentation in place and send a proper announcement to u-d-a
[18:31] <mdz> bug 243682 for example
[18:32] <mdz> bug 252146 and bug 245849 look like possible dupes
[18:33] <mdz> the first of those at least is nominated for intrepid
[18:33] <slangasek> in the meantime, as regards regression tracking on the whole, if you find a bug that's a regression vs. 8.04 please escalate it by nominating it for intrepid
[18:33] <mdz> I've added a 'regression' tag for good measure
[18:34] <mdz> which I think is useful to do in addition to nominating for the release
[18:34] <slangasek> agreed
[18:35] <seb128> slangasek:  about the new features, the guest login might be one to list there
[18:35] <mdz> slangasek: [ACTION] for you, to get that documentation updated and disseminated?
[18:35] <mdz> seb128: good call
[18:35] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to provide & announce documentation on policy for tracking regressions
[18:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to provide & announce documentation on policy for tracking regressions
[18:36] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to add the guest login to the alpha-4 tech overview
[18:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to add the guest login to the alpha-4 tech overview
[18:37] <slangasek> I've accepted the nomination of 243682 now
[18:37] <slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
[18:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
[18:38] <slangasek> everything is acceptably sized at the moment
[18:38] <slangasek> unfortunately, I know that samba 3.2 has bloated rather substantially over samba 3.0 (by a factor of 2 or more), so that's not moving us in the right direction
[18:39] <slangasek> so we'll need to continue to keep an eye on these
[18:39] <slangasek> does anyone know of other changes coming up that are going to cost us more space?
[18:40] <cjwatson> one thing I've been meaning to do for ages is to remove the uncompressed Packages files from the apt archives on the CDs
[18:40] <cjwatson> that would save us a couple of megabytes on alternate, though not a lot on desktop
[18:41] <cjwatson> it needs some testing though, I wouldn't be surprised if something in the installer assumed an uncompressed Packages file on CDs
[18:41] <slangasek> is that something you'd have time to work on before alpha-4?
[18:41] <slangasek> (should I [ACTION] you?)
[18:42] <cjwatson> sure, I can probably fit it in next week
[18:42] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to investigate removing uncompressed Packages files from alternate CDs
[18:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to investigate removing uncompressed Packages files from alternate CDs
[18:42] <mdz> cjwatson: it's potentially useful to be able to use apt-cache et al in the live system
[18:42] <cjwatson> mdz: Packages.gz is quite sufficient
[18:43] <mdz> cjwatson: oh, you mean the Packages files on the CD itself, not the ones in /var/lib/apt inside squashfs
[18:43] <cjwatson> I'm not talking about removing actual *functionality* in any way
[18:43] <cjwatson> right
[18:43] <mdz> ignore me
[18:43] <mdz> I missed that you were talking about alternate
[18:44] <cjwatson> I don't know of other major size changes definitely coming up, although haven't had numbers on OOo 3.0 yet
[18:45] <slangasek> cjwatson: is Luke still going to try to downsample desktop sounds for intrepid?  I don't remember any objections to this change, and it would be good to start that fairly early in the cycle instead of at the end when we're crunched and not properly regression-testing the change
[18:45] <mdz> there was a bug filed to document the possibility of sharing the kernel image between /cdrom and /
[18:45] <cjwatson> I haven't asked recently, but give me an action for it
[18:45] <cjwatson> mdz: which I fixed
[18:45] <cjwatson> bug 80385
[18:45] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to follow up with Luke regarding desktop sound downsampling
[18:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to follow up with Luke regarding desktop sound downsampling
[18:45] <mdz> cjwatson: *hug*
[18:46] <slangasek> [TOPIC] release manager for alpha-4
[18:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  release manager for alpha-4
[18:46] <cjwatson> ogra noted that in theory bits of /lib/modules could be shared somehow, but that's a lot harder
[18:46] <ogra> yeah
[18:46] <slangasek> this is mostly just an announcement; I'm gone to DebConf the week alpha-4 comes out, so Martin Pitt will be standing in as release manager for the milestone
[18:47] <slangasek> so please coordinate with him :)
[18:47] <ogra> you could just omit them from the squashfs though and install the .deb at install time .... and have an overlay during the live session
[18:47] <slangasek> [TOPIC] set schedule for future meetings
[18:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  set schedule for future meetings
[18:47] <mdz> slangasek: [AGREED] will get that into the meeting summary
[18:48] <slangasek> ogra, cjwatson: we're in danger of overrunning even the extended 2 hour time slot, so please discuss that one further off-line
[18:48] <slangasek> [AGREED] I'm gone to DebConf the week alpha-4 comes out, so Martin Pitt will be standing in as release manager for the milestone; please coordinate with him that week
[18:48] <MootBot> AGREED received:  I'm gone to DebConf the week alpha-4 comes out, so Martin Pitt will be standing in as release manager for the milestone; please coordinate with him that week
[18:48] <slangasek> now, schedule for future meetings
[18:49] <slangasek> Martin noted that this time slot doesn't work very well for him, and it does already overlap with mobile team anyway; so I'm wondering if a Wednesday slot would work better
[18:49] <ogra> slangasek, i wasnt planning to discuss that here :) there is a bug for it open
[18:50] <slangasek> but, er, google calendar appears to be confused at the moment, so I can't actually check the distro schedule there
[18:51] <cjwatson> Wednesday afternoon is generally bad for meetings for me personally
[18:51] <cjwatson> Friday afternoon perhaps?
[18:52] <pgraner> slangasek: Mon, Wed & Fri work best I'm slammed on Tues & Thurs.
[18:53]  * slangasek manages to pull up the distro ical feed
[18:53] <slangasek> it looks like someone has scheduled us for 15:30 on next Wednesday for the release team meeting...?
[18:53] <cjwatson> that was a mistake, I deleted it
[18:54] <slangasek> oh :)
[18:54] <cjwatson> not sure what happened there
[18:54] <slangasek> Friday looks fairly open according to the distro calendar
[18:54] <slangasek> e.g., if we can keep this meeting down to 1h, would 15:00 UTC work for people?
[18:55] <mdz> friday is not an ideal choice for those in eastern time zones
[18:55] <mdz> slangasek: davidm told me that the mobile team would be moving their meeting anyway
[18:55] <slangasek> mdz: 15:00 UTC is inside business hours for everyone involved, I think?
[18:55] <mdz> so this time slot will be open, if it works otherwise
[18:56] <slangasek> whereas 16:00 UTC is not, and pitti was one who mentioned that as a concern
[18:56] <cjwatson> you're the western outlier as far as timezones go I think
[18:56] <mdz> slangasek: I think an hour is probably optimistic; this one was two hours
[18:56] <mdz> 90m is probably doable
[18:57] <slangasek> would 1500-1630 UTC on Fridays work for everyone else?
[18:57] <cjwatson> WFM
[18:57] <mdz> the start conflicts with a weekly meeting for me, but it tends to finish early anyway
[18:57] <pgraner> ACK
[18:58] <slangasek> dendrobates: ok with you?
[18:59] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with dendrobates, heno, Keybuk, pitti to confirm Friday 1500-1630 UTC time slot
[18:59] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with dendrobates, heno, Keybuk, pitti to confirm Friday 1500-1630 UTC time slot
[19:00] <slangasek> will resolve that out-of-band
[19:00] <mathiaz> slangasek: he isn't around - I'm not sure it would work every week
[19:00] <mdz> slangasek: his calendar has a meeting from 1630-1730 UTC every Friday
[19:00] <cjwatson> it's probably ok for it not to be perfect as long as a delegate is available
[19:00] <mdz> slangasek: but no outright conflict
[19:01] <slangasek> ok, that's our tentative target for the next meeting then; will follow up by email to confirm
[19:01] <slangasek> next meeting will be next week, anyway, since that's the week before the milestone
[19:02] <slangasek> cjwatson: seeing the time, I think we'll push back the Ubuntu 8.04.2 discussion until next week
[19:02] <cjwatson> ok, or we can resolve it separately
[19:03] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[19:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:06.
[19:03] <slangasek> thanks, all
[19:03] <mdz> slangasek: thanks, that was productive
[19:04] <slangasek> next week I'll see if I can manage to have us be productive in a somewhat shorter timespan :)
[20:03] <emgent> @schedule rome
[23:23] <n3t0> who is the webmaster or admin of ubuntu forum?
[23:26] <emgent> n3t0: it`snt the right channel to ask. try #canonical-sysadmin
[23:26] <emgent> Newz2000 i think.
[23:26] <n3t0> tnx