=== Igorot is now known as Knightlust [09:09] * e-jat down down down [09:32] is there an agenda for today (yet)? [09:44] gonzopancho: For which meeting? [09:44] the mobile / umpc meeeting? [09:44] gonzopancho: I think so: I'll look. [09:45] am I early? (I'm in Hawaii, so -10 GMT, and its 22:45 here [09:46] You are early. It's at 16:00 UTC, which is in about 7 and a quarter hours. [09:46] Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080731 (when we get then) [09:47] Only item is to move the meeting 5 hours earlier, which might be better for you :) [09:47] Err. 4 hours (I can't do math today) [09:50] i see, thanks. its gonna suck getting up at 5am [09:51] otherwise, has anyone attempted to build the 'mobile' stack for an amd geode yet? (or should it just work?) [09:52] gonzopancho: That's likely more on-topic for #ubuntu-mobile : join me there after I do a bit of processor research === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik [11:56] oh :) [13:53] hello [13:54] Good morning pitti [13:54] hey nhandler [13:55] hello! [13:56] * mvo waves [13:57] * MacSlow greets the funky bunch [13:59] hello [13:59] hey seb128 [13:59] Hello seb128 [14:00] salut seb128 [14:00] hello everyone [14:00] FYI, current template with activity reports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-31 [14:02] I didn't see any agenda items on anyone's report, did I miss any? [14:02] how is everyone doing with their spec implementations? four weeks to go :) [14:02] * MacSlow feels the heat [14:03] anything which is falling behind which we need to address? [14:04] pitti, I got to check a few things with gdm upstream (user-switching, guest-account) [14:04] hey kwwii [14:04] hi MacSlow [14:04] MacSlow: that's actually an interesting topic; is the face browser now aimed at intrepid+1, or can we port it to 2.20? [14:05] there was a small discussion with upstream recently about the wealth of missing features, so it doesn't look like it's intrepidable [14:05] pitti, not yet... but Mark made clear he wants to know for sure about the user-switching and guest-account [14:06] MacSlow: guest account in which sense? if he means the one we are doing (gdm-guest-account spec, from Prague), that's already in intrepid now [14:06] I patched our current gdm (2.20) [14:06] I can cc you the reply from William (on of gdm's upstream devs) once I get it [14:06] * seb128 hugs pitti for the good work on the guest account [14:06] :) [14:07] MacSlow: what did you ask upstream? [14:07] seb128: well, I don't feel *that* proud about it TBH, since it's not exactly an upstreamable solution, but the gdm situation is too difficult right now :( [14:07] seb128, about fast-user-switching [14:07] mvo: got any feedback about the sandbox upgrader yet? nice work! [14:07] pitti: well, that's not your fault, upstream just ignored your mail on the list [14:08] pitti: little so far, i guess it is still running for most people ;) [14:08] seb128: they actually replied two days ago, but it didn't really help; they just talked about how they use selinux, and with a differnet set of requirements [14:08] mvo: heh [14:09] pitti: ah, they didn't copy the list on the reply, the only thing on the list was Jon asking about the new gdm issues [14:09] seb128: btw, do you have moderation powers on the gnomecc list? my mail about the systemwide prefs seems to be stuck there [14:10] mvo: theorically I'm the moderator I think but I lost the password ages ago and didn't manage to get somebody giving me it or a new one [14:10] pitti: but if I get nothing by tomorrow I think I will sent a mail to ubuntu-devel asking specifically for testing [14:10] mvo: can I rant about people mailing lists but not bothering subscribing to read replies, avoid moderation, etc? ;-) [14:10] mvo: you should do that anyway, I think [14:10] seb128: you can, but I will ignore you :P [14:11] mvo: alright, so I'll ignore your mail in the moderation queue :-P [14:11] * pitti points out that mailman has a nice option to disable mail delivery; subscription shouldn't hurt then [14:11] seb128: seriously, I didn't expect it to be moderated (but then I guess its impossible without nowdays because of the spam) [14:11] well, I don't get why mailing a list if you are not interested by the replies there [14:12] hey mpt [14:12] hello [14:12] seems to be polite behaviour to subscribe when you ask something to a list so people can reply to the list [14:12] seb128: I wrote in my mail that people should CC me, but I guess I will just subscribe [14:12] Sorry, forgot the meeting time [14:12] rather than ask people to break their workflow [14:12] hey mpt [14:12] well, frankly that annoys me as well [14:13] I don't want to sub an entire list just for a single question [14:13] mvo: I'll try to get the moderation password but I can't guarantee I'll get a reply ;-) [14:13] but anyway, side discussion [14:13] *shrug* its not that much of a "break-workflow" to ask for a CC IMNSHO [14:13] mvo: especially not with reply-to and m-f-t [14:13] mvo: and half of the people will do "reply to the list", forgot, "ups" [14:13] and you got context lost, fragmentation in the thread, etc [14:13] or they will just reply to all on every mail in the thread [14:14] but right [14:14] that's not on-topic there [14:14] MacSlow: f-u-s isn't in 2.22 either? [14:14] pitti: the applet is in gdm now [14:14] and it's available and working the same way [14:14] ah, nice [14:14] they didn't rename the .server so I doesn't break configs on upgrade [14:15] pitti, I didn't see any of that mentioned in gdm's ChangeLog nor hints in the code (well at least where I looked) [14:15] pitti, I'm waiting for upstreams reply on the issue... also I don't know that Jon or Ray might already have in their local repositories pending to be pushed upstream [14:16] MacSlow: so, can you please followup with Mark and explain the situation? Unless a miracle happens, I don't think that the new gdm will be ready in time for intrepid... [14:16] if that's a "must have", well, then we have to invent something [14:16] but it would be nice to know our requirements as early as possible [14:17] pitti, Mark already asked me to do that in yesterday's call... I'm at it [14:17] ok, thanks [14:17] everyone else happy with their spec progress then? [14:18] pitti: well technically we could use the new gdm, FC9 uses it and it's working for basic purpose = login [14:18] so and so, but it's just not normal in my case I guess [14:18] but I think it would be a slap in the face for users for no real win [14:18] *nod* [14:19] seb128, there are rumours that F10 will revert back to the old gdm [14:19] lol [14:19] where did you read those? [14:19] so, sponsoring queue: I checked it, and there seems to be just one bug which isn't fresh, bug 185171 [14:19] Launchpad bug 185171 in libgnome "gnome-open has no manpage" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185171 [14:19] seb128, Mark and Matt [14:19] seb128: that's on your desk; any problem with it, or just "not important enough to do right now"? [14:19] ok, not rumours then, just jokes [14:19] I think that you need to look at which features are missing and how important they are vs. doing something new on a more bleading edge release [14:20] btw, are there packages for the new gdm? [14:20] no [14:20] nope [14:20] I'd like to look into how the themeing works [14:20] I pushed the packaging to the ubuntu-desktop bzr, you just have to run debuild there [14:20] bzr! [14:20] kwwii, not at all. [14:20] but themes are not applied [14:20] wasn't that one of the things which are still missing? [14:21] users login at first boot doesn't work [14:21] and power management actions don't work [14:21] seb128: pm> not even now, that CK ships the PM scripts? [14:21] there is no theming in the new gdm [14:21] i wonder how many people sleep from gdm [14:21] and no themeing makes my life easier :p [14:21] kwwii, and theming the simple-greeter vs. the graphical-greeter will be different... I told you a bit about thos .json files during the sprint [14:21] no theming == easier life for kwwii [14:22] pitti: the issue is that gnome-power-manager doesn't has the session cookie environment set [14:22] MacSlow: right, we should discuss that more after my vacation [14:22] kwwii: I regularly use gdm for shutting down, but actually just because shutdown from the session is broken :) [14:22] pitti: so there is no ck session available [14:22] seb128: ah, still that [14:22] I didn't debug further since the sprint [14:22] too many other things to do [14:22] kwwii, actually I don't want to discuss or do meetings at all and just get my head around gdm [14:22] things we need for intrepid ;-) [14:22] some weird execve which forgets about the env? [14:23] that would be weird [14:23] especially that the same code works on fedora [14:23] ok, -> off meeting discussion, I think [14:23] I'm wondering if those got dbus activated or something [14:24] seb128: what's with the sponsoring bug? [14:24] oh, and please everyone hug seb128 for doing sponsor queue management last and this week [14:24] * MacSlow hugs seb128 [14:25] pitti: the libgnome one? will sponsor that later [14:25] ok, so no problems there [14:25] splendid [14:25] so, AOB? [14:25] I did already quite some sponsoring this week, would be nice if other people (out of pitti) would clean their list too [14:25] (except free ice cream for all *sweat*) [14:25] * mvo did his bit today [14:25] so dholbach doesn't have a chock when he will look at the list [14:26] seb128: I checked the queue for the desktop team, looks quite good actually [14:26] I already uploaded my bits (it's a bit out of date), mvo commited his two, the rest is !desktop [14:26] pitti: right, I did sponsor almost all the desktopish things pending yesterday ;-) [14:26] right [14:26] so we are doing quite well there [14:27] we should have a competition between platform and desktop team for sponsoring [14:27] ok, seems we are done then? [14:27] that would perhaps motive those to clean the list too ;-) [14:27] seb128: double-karma sponsoring days? :-) [14:27] :-) [14:27] nothing to add to the meeting from me [14:27] oh, Scott has quite a few open, but he's not here today, so... [14:28] so, thank you everyone [14:28] thanks [14:28] ok [14:28] happy hacking, desktop team! [14:29] thanks === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Mentoring Reception | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC [14:55] If anyone is waiting for the Java meeting, we'll hold it in #ubuntu-java this week due to the schedule conflict. [15:02] Java people to #ubuntu-java please. Mentoring Meeting here now. [15:02] :) [15:02] thanks persia [15:02] :) [15:02] norsetto: leave me 2 minutes brb [15:04] there is fun stuff to be found poking around, like /usr/bin/dh_undocumented [15:05] lol "This program does nothing and should no longer be used." [15:06] At least it doesn't use /usr/share/man/man7/undocumented.7.gz as the manpage while doing nothing. [15:06] norsetto: back [15:07] huats: ok, I wonder if we should wait for porthose and nxvl [15:07] I think we can wait for them 5 minutes [15:07] I am not that hurry [15:07] I just have to leave at 16:00 UTC [15:07] I'm here [15:07] great [15:07] ok [15:08] so i think it is different since nxvl is abroad [15:08] ... [15:08] ah ok, porthose is here, we just miss nxvl which is lost in the Florida's everglades [15:08] well, ok, lets start, everybody happy with the agenda? [15:08] yep [15:08] I'm good with the agenda [15:08] yep [15:09] I'm just amazed at how time flies, its more than one month since our first meeting! [15:09] that long? [15:10] point 1, status of new requests, everybody has the status handy? [15:10] * porthose finding it [15:10] I have 4 names in the list [15:11] porthose: you mentioned that hanno wanted to have some time before be given a mentor? [15:11] yes but that time has elapsed [15:12] porthose: ok, perhaps we should ping him then, anybody volunteer? [15:12] I can try ... [15:13] huats: its not that difficult, I'm sure you can manage it ;-) [15:13] norsetto: ok so I'll contact him... [15:13] but "after" monday [15:14] huats: thx, we have 2 mentors available, so, it should not be a problem to pair him [15:14] I can probably try before that :) [15:15] porthose: huats won't be available to do anything before monday anyway, so lets share some of the tasks [15:15] k [15:15] what about james d carroll? [15:15] I don't think we heard from him again!? [15:16] not that I know of [15:16] have never heard of him [15:16] I am really sorry about that... [15:17] (I mean not being able to do stuffs before monday) [15:17] porthose: all his emails were circulated on the m.l. [15:17] porthose: on the 18th of July [15:18] lets ping him just in case, perhaps you want to do that porthose? [15:18] hmm then I have been missing a lot of mail then grrrr (stupid ISP) I have had this problem before [15:18] porthose: ok, no problem, I'll forward them to your email address now [15:18] thx [15:19] porthose: ok, sent them [15:19] Here is the email porthose: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-July/004231.html [15:20] finally, what about James Emerson? [15:21] we should probably wait until nxvl is back, he was in contact with him [15:21] norsetto: I agree with you... [15:21] Works for me [15:21] (wait for nxvl on that one) [15:21] anybody else I'm missing? If not, lets go to point 2 [15:22] huats: you were working on this? [15:22] go ahead [15:22] :) [15:22] yeah [15:22] so far I have continue to try to contact some more [15:22] but I have not any news... [15:22] I'll ping them again [15:23] who do we have to consider as missing? [15:23] I think it is important to ask the mentor in the old system what to do with their mentee [15:24] let me check... [15:24] huats: that would be point 4, anyhow, for the old list, I think the status is pretty clear [15:25] norsetto: it is not that clear to me :) [15:25] huats: well, there is you to start with, so, you should know about you :-) [15:25] I was thinking about sending an email to the various mentor to ask them about that... and ask them if they wanted (of course resulting an agreement of their mentee) to switch in the new system [15:25] ... [15:25] ggrrrr [15:25] I don't find the list... [15:26] let me really check :) [15:26] huats: we did that already. to continue, asac is working well with jazzva and dfiloni [15:26] huats: TheMuso and AstralJava I have no idea what they are doing [15:26] ok great [15:27] same for me... [15:27] huats: and jr is still stuck with Lydia Pintscher [15:27] jr : apparently their are working [15:27] not very very activly but working [15:28] huats: so, what I really don't know is what slomo, mvo, raphink and jcorbier are doing, or want to do [15:28] I already answer for some of them :) [15:28] (from memory) [15:29] mvo is ok to get one [15:29] (like right now...) [15:29] same for raphink... [15:29] (I think I have updated the doc for that a long time ago...) [15:29] hello [15:29] what's it ? [15:29] yes, they are still quoted as mentors [15:30] raphink, we were discussing about mentors [15:30] :) [15:30] I'm glad to see you are still on board ;-) [15:30] I'm still a mentor if someone needs me [15:30] (remember we already talked about that :)) [15:30] norsetto: I'm always on freenode ;) [15:30] norsetto: I'm a ftpmaster at my work, I manage the Debian repository here, the buildd, and am the referrent packager [15:31] so I mentor people at work as part of my paid activity [15:31] raphink: thats cool [15:31] I've always said that I was available if someone needs mentoring ;) [15:31] but if no one comes, I'm not going to look for people to teach ;) [15:31] raphink: sure [15:31] :) [15:31] cool [15:31] raphink: yes, we have you down as a mentor for the senior program [15:31] the senior program? [15:32] norsetto: you know french are never looking for extra work [15:32] ... [15:32] :) [15:32] huats: :p [15:32] raphink: would you want to be considered for newcomers too? [15:32] what is the senior program ? [15:32] norsetto: honnestly I am not sure that the new process has been really detailed by most mentors... [15:32] raphink: yes, people that wants to apply for mentorship [15:32] huats: yes ... [15:33] raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring [15:33] you have all the details [15:33] :) [15:33] huats: thats why we need to talk with them, one by one [15:33] norsetto: I talked to most of them, but it was before the new process [15:33] :) [15:33] norsetto: I think I can help with senior === mvo_ is now known as mvo____ [15:34] I juts have to keep up-to-date with common practices that change often [15:34] raphink: if you have any questions just ping one of us (norsetto, porthose, nxvl or me) [15:34] freeze stuff and techniques === mvo____ is now known as mvo [15:34] huats: ok [15:34] huats: anyhow, no news from slomo or jcorbier I gather? [15:34] I'm in touch with nxvl quite a bit lately === mvo is now known as mvo____________ [15:34] norsetto: nope [15:34] nothing at all [15:34] I have tried to ping them many many timeS... === mvo____________ is now known as mvo__ [15:34] havn't seen them on IRC === mvo__ is now known as mvo [15:35] I will send them an email, not really sure if it will work better.. [15:35] right, ok, we should remove them from the list then, there is no point in keeping them there [15:35] norsetto: ok [15:35] and I'll send them the email and we can add them back after... [15:35] ok [15:36] lets go to point 3, we are running short on time [15:36] any idea on how we could recruit new mentors? [15:37] what I have been doing so far was talking with new motus and now new uuc to ask them if they would have liked to do it [15:37] norsetto: I think it is hard to do something else... [15:38] norsetto: I would suggest offering something to new mentors. Currently, the only reason for a mentor to apply would be to get the good feeling that comes with helping new contributors. This doesn't work for everyone. If you had some special privilege/reward for mentors, you would probably attract a lot more. [15:38] may be we can launch from time to time (twice a year) a call for mentor... [15:38] huats: well, I also tried to send announcment through motu m.l. but that was not very succesfull ... [15:38] nhandler: not sure about a reward... [15:38] norsetto: I know... [15:39] yea this is a tough one [15:39] this is probably because people are quite busy :) [15:39] nhandler: like what? What can we give to motivate volunteers? [15:39] nhandler: like you for instance ;-) [15:40] what more is there than MOTU? [15:40] you already have all the priviliges [15:40] norsetto: I'm not really sure. I just enjoy helping new contributors. [15:40] porthose: being active in mentoring is a definite plus for motuship [15:40] true but we are talking a motivator [15:41] norsetto: from my point of view, people who want to help are already in the program... [15:41] porthose: well, not just mentoring, helping new contributors in general, but surely investing your time is seen very positively [15:41] I mean to have a mentee [15:41] porthose: beside, there is quite a lot to be learned by being a mentor [15:41] yes and I agree [15:41] but for somethers they help with another way (answering on IRC...) [15:41] huats: yes [15:41] I learn something new every day [15:42] norsetto: Maybe we should work to make it a requirement for UCDs to become mentors for a period of time prior to becoming MOTUs [15:42] ok, we will keep talking on a private base as we have been doing so far, and perhaps sending out remonder once or twice a year [15:42] I would expect mentoring MOTUs to be a significant credit for a core developer application [15:42] nhandler: no, that we can't do, we can't oblige people to be involved with mentoring (one way or another) [15:43] good idea [15:43] cjwatson: yes, that also I would expect [15:43] it's part of the broader understanding of the system that one needs to acquire in order to be a core developer [15:43] cjwatson: +1 [15:43] cjwatson: but that needs to be somehow "enforced" by the TB ... [15:45] ok, shall we continue to next point, unless anyone wants to add anything? [15:45] +1 [15:46] for the mailing list, I don't have any news beside the fact that our request was rejected and we reapplied to rt [15:46] that was 9 days ago, I heard nothing more since then [15:47] what were the reasons for rejection? [15:47] our "private"ml seems to be working ok though [15:47] porthose: because it was motu [15:47] aaahhh [15:47] fine by me [15:48] don't ask me what is really behind it, I have no clue [15:48] any way new m.l. works for me :) [15:48] yes, works for me too, a great kudos to huats! [15:49] huats for president! [15:49] ops, no, can't do, he is already president ... [15:49] hehe [15:49] norsetto: was this a launchpad-based list that you applied for? [15:49] ok, lets go to the last but one point, interface with the school [15:49] norsetto: LOL [15:49] Hobbsee: yes [15:50] I am already :D [15:50] norsetto: ahh. TB has strongly recommended that the ubuntu mailing lists go to lists.ubuntu.com [15:50] (which is why yours would have been rejected) [15:50] Hobbsee: right, that would explain it [15:51] norsetto: try poking jcastro directly, and filing at rt@ubuntu.com to get it done (you'll need to do both, most likely) [15:51] anyway, sorry norsetto, go on :) [15:51] Hobbsee: yes, been there, done that ;-) [15:51] ah [15:51] norsetto: that was a good maintainer script lecture thx :) [15:52] Hobbsee: not at all, thanks for popping in [15:53] porthose: well, after you realised that you could have done things in a different, perhaps better way, but anyhow, my point is that james_w is all alone to run the show, so, he wouldn't mind if we can help [15:53] in particular in finding new lecturers [15:53] I am giving a lecture in 2 weeks [15:53] people linke our good friend nhandler! [15:54] hey all [15:54] Hi james_w [15:54] hi james_w, we were discussing how we (the reception) could help you with the school [15:55] james_w: I was saying with looking for new lecturers, but perhpas you have other ideas? [15:55] hi james_w [15:55] yeah, new lecturers is the important thing for now [15:56] james_w: what we do right now, is to personally go and talk with all uuc and new MOTU to incite them to get forward [15:56] If we have sessions weekly say then help with other things may be appreciated [15:56] yeah, that's a good idea, thanks [15:57] other than that, I don't know what we could do, perhaps a good idea would be to try and ask the mentee what they would like to see as lessons [15:57] which is mainly filling in the school wiki page [15:58] ok, I will draft a letter to all mentees asking them to let us know what is it they feel they need and would like to be covered in the school [15:58] anything else? [15:58] :) [15:58] norsetto: great idea... [15:59] yeah, good idea norsetto [15:59] I think you are rigth... [15:59] may be instead of searching for lecturers [15:59] we can start knowing the subjects [15:59] and then ask for volunteer... [16:00] (it means to take the problem from the other side...) [16:00] huats: the problem is that its easier to find lectures that volunteer to give "their" lesson than to give a lesson which is felt needed by somebody else [16:00] but we can try to have both side :) [16:01] huats: yes, we can and we shall [16:01] and may be also, it might interesting to ask mentors what they think their previous mentess were lacking... [16:01] ok, I think we still have another our before the next meeting, so we can continue if you want [16:02] because a mentee might not know what he is missing while a mentor will... [16:02] huats: yes [16:03] ok, so I will draft a letter to all mentors, mentees and the motu-mentors m.l. to ask for their advice on this and circulate it through our m.l. [16:04] who is volunteering to write minutes for this meeting? [16:04] I can [16:04] but after monday once again.... [16:04] (well may be before... in the plane) [16:05] huats: that would be cool [16:05] norsetto: ok [16:05] its great to have you guys on-board! [16:05]