/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/02/#ubuntu-motu.txt

zookoOh, ok.00:01
TomaszDthis is madness, gdebi reports my package as broken, but dpkg installs it without ever complaining00:22
TomaszDlintian does not offer any help, everything seems to be fine00:23
TomaszD*sigh*00:23
ScottKTomaszD: If dpkg installs it, but gdebi doesn't then I'd call that a bug in gdebi.00:24
TomaszDScottK, I just hacked up the linux-image deb, adding a few drivers, adding md5sums, put it back together, installed it on a test machine using dpkg, works great, gdebi complains00:25
ScottKSo complain back.00:26
TomaszDScottK, I'm still not sure if it's my fault00:26
TomaszDI didn't update the changelog, for one00:26
ScottKIf dpkg understands  it, not your fault is a reasonably safe assumption.00:27
TomaszDI'll see what lintian says about the original package and then I'll complain00:27
TomaszDhuh, exactly the same results, it's not my fault then00:28
stefanlsdIs there anyway to get stats on how many people use a certain package?00:29
Flannelstefanlsd: kinda sorta not really.00:30
stefanlsdheh. was just wondering how you figure out if a package should be removed00:31
TomaszDok, lol, my fault it is, left a test file that obviously doesn't have an md5 in md5sums :P00:31
ScottKstefanlsd: It's more commonly dead upstream, serious unfixed bugs for a long time, stuff like that, not user base.00:31
stefanlsdScottK: mm. ok.  Im busy looking at a sync request for diald and there's an upstream version also, but it was last done in 2001 and it hardly compiles without changing stuff00:32
stefanlsdScottK: but i see the debian guys for the previous version did change some of the stuff that wasnt changed upstream00:33
ScottKThen you probably want to keep the Debian fixes.00:33
directhexstefanlsd, debian has opt-in tracking for what's installed, to show how many people use a given package00:47
ScottKdirecthex: Ubuntu has the same.00:49
directhexScottK, so it does. i don't like recommending debianish packages, in case they're not directly applicable00:49
directhexnot searchable though. how annoying00:50
=== lakin__ is now known as lakin
=== dmoerner is now known as infinitycircuit
stefanlsdWould anyone know why this happens in pbuilder when i try build - /usr/bin/install -c -d -m 0755 /etc/pam.d        [new line]    /usr/bin/install -c -o root -g root -m 0644 config/diald.pam //etc/pam.d/diald     [new line]      /usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `//etc/pam.d/diald': Permission denied01:25
slangasekstefanlsd: because your package needs to redirect the upstream build rules to not try to install files in the real root directory01:29
slangasekstefanlsd: it needs to be installing to a subdirectory of your build tree instead, where the installed files can then be gathered back up for packaging01:30
stefanlsdslangasek: ok. thanks. i see thats happening in the Makefile.in01:32
emgenthello02:06
=== zooko is now known as zookofamtime
=== ember_ is now known as ember
gastoniI want to upload a package to REVU02:37
gastoniI already have my launchpad account and I have setted my pgp key02:38
gastonithis is what is confusing me: dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot02:38
RAOFWhat part of that is confusing?02:40
gastoninot sure of what It'll do, I've read the motu wiki, bt still not clear02:41
gastonithe output of that command, is what I have to puload?02:42
RAOFYes.02:43
RAOFWell, rather, the _source.changes file.02:44
dldchello02:44
dldci need help on packaging, someone around ?02:44
persiagastoni: Specifically, that command will build a source package from the modified local sources.02:44
gastonimy package has this name: conkygui_v12_all.deb02:46
gastonihow do I issue the command, I can't get it to work02:46
dldchttp://pastebin.ubuntu.com/33213/02:49
dldcerror:02:49
dldc debian/rules build02:49
dldcdh_testdir02:49
dldc# Add here commands to configure the package.02:49
dldccp -f /usr/share/misc/config.sub config.sub02:49
dldccp -f /usr/share/misc/config.guess config.guess02:49
dldc./configure --host=i486-linux-gnu --build=i486-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --mandir=\${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="-g -O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs"02:49
dldc./configure: 6: Syntax error: "(" unexpected02:49
dldcmake: *** [config.status] Error 202:49
dldcdpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules build gave error exit status 202:49
dldcpbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package02:49
dldcCan you help me? :-]02:50
persiagastoni: How did you create your ,deb file?02:50
persiadldc: It looks like you've some syntax error in ./configure.  Have you looked there?02:51
dldcpersia: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/33213/02:51
dldcis good02:51
gastoniwith the dpkg -b command, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=87653702:52
persiadldc: The problem isn't with debian/rules, it's with ./configure02:52
persiagastoni: Ah.  I wouldn't start from there :)02:53
persia!packaging02:53
ubottuThe packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports02:53
persiagastoni: You might do well to review the packaging guide.  That will help you construct a source package (you have a binary package now).  REVU only accepts source packages.02:53
dldcpersia http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/33214/02:54
gastoniawh damn02:54
gastonipersia: so, to build a source package with java, which is the general idea?02:54
gastonito package the sources with a shell script that will compile them druing installation?02:55
dldcpersia found error? :-[02:55
persiagastoni: Usually one uses ant or something rather than a shell script, and calls it from debian/rules02:55
gastoniwouldn't people need JDK if they want to install my package, then?02:56
persiadldc: No, but I suspect it is in the function definition02:56
persiagastoni: They would.  Your package should Depend on the JDK02:57
dldcif i put only "./configure" in debian/rules same error :-[02:57
persiadldc: Yes.  You need to verify that the function definition works with dash02:58
dldcbut, if i run in my box ./configure work fine02:58
gastonipersia: but a normal user doesn't install JDK, they just use JRE. right?02:58
gastonipersia: wouldn't that be an annoyance for the common user?02:58
dldcoh no wrong02:59
dldcsame error if i run it in my box02:59
dldc:-[02:59
persiagastoni: I think http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/ch6.html#s6.5 is roughly what you want (although, yes, there should be a better one)02:59
persiagastoni: There are two sorts of packages: source packages and binary packages.03:00
dldcpersia Suggests to solve it ?03:00
persiaDevelopers work on source packages, and make the changes there.  These source packages are then fed to the buildds, which run sbuild against them to generate binary packages, which are installed on user machines.03:00
persiaYour source package will need a JDK to build, but your binary package probably only needs a JRE03:01
gastonidamn, packaging is a lot harder than I though03:01
gastoniI'll stick to the binary for while03:02
persiagastoni: OK.  I'm fairly sure there will be a MOTU School session on Java packaging in the next few months: you may want to watch for that, and try again then.03:03
gastoniAH, perfect03:03
gastonihow can I see/read those sessions?03:03
gastonianyone here is interested to join me in my project, Conky GUI, as a packager?03:04
persiadldc: Looks like dash doesn't support "function".  Patching that away might help.03:05
=== jmarsden_ is now known as jmarsden
jmarsdengastoni: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School for school sessions.  Is your package currently build using GNU Autotools?03:14
gastoniGNU autotools?? I just made the control file and dpkg took care of everything else03:24
jmarsdengastoni: No, I meant for building the .jar from sources, for example... looks like you just used Ant instead...03:33
gastonijmarsden: oh, I just clicked "build" in netbeans03:33
jmarsdengastoni: OK.... that won't work too well for automated builds in REVU, for example :-)03:34
RAOFOr be in any way acceptable to the archive-admins.03:36
gastoniah ok, so i have to compile by hand, geez03:36
RAOFIf it's not built from source, we don't want it.03:37
crimsun(in universe.)03:39
gastoniit si buitl from source, I wrote the program03:39
wgrantcrimsun: We've lived without it for years, so we don't want it in multiverse either.03:39
gastoniwhich is the difference???03:39
wgrantgastoni: It needs to be automatically buildable.03:39
crimsunwgrant: oh I agree, I'm just thinking of the many source packages that either retrieve binaries from the 'net or simply bundle a binary.03:40
crimsune.g., flashplugin-nonfree and eagle, respectively03:41
wgrantRight.03:41
gastoniwgrant: what does "automatically buildable" means?03:41
wgrantgastoni: I should be able to build it by running dpkg-buildpackage.03:41
wgrants/should/must/03:41
gastoniit is enough if its build by running dpkg --build ???03:42
wgrantI don't believe so.03:44
gastoniok ok, I guess I'll have to read more about all this03:44
jmarsdengastoni: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete03:45
RAOFgastoni: Basically, running dpkg-source -x on the source package, editing the source files in the tree it extracts, and then running dpkg-buildpackage should result in your changes propogating to the package that gets built.03:45
gastonia ok thank you for all your help03:50
ScottKThree cheers for packages using the new Debhelper 7 format so I have to be inside an Intrepid chroot to even build the source package.04:02
ion_;-)04:03
ion_Progress hurts.04:03
persiaScottK: You probably wanted to be in a intrepid chroot for building the source package anyway: that way you get any modifications to the tools that run debian/rules clean04:07
* ScottK starts to wonder about some control file entry for source package versioned build depends.04:09
persiaYeah, well, that's been a persistent issue for more years than Ubuntu existed.  I suspect that the current requirement that Debian uploads include a sid binary is in part an attempt to work around it.04:10
ScottKI can understand perhaps using the simplified debhelper 7 rules for a new package.  I don't get rewriting an exisiting and working rules file ...04:22
RAOFI can perhaps think of a time when I'd do that, but in general, no.  What package is that?04:23
ScottKlibnet-ssleay-perl.04:24
ScottKIt's just a fricking Perl module.04:24
ion_Refactoring code is usually a good thing, and what you’re talking about is just hiding stuff you don’t need to care about behind an interface that handles the dirty work, so that future maintenance becomes more enjoyable.04:24
ScottKI guess that's one way to look at it.  I look at it more like doing work to change something from something that works to something that works.04:25
RAOFBut debian/rules isn't terribly complicated to begin with, and unless you're starting out it's a bit impolite to require intrepid to do anything to the package.04:26
ScottKThe Debian guy isn't required to worry that he's inconveniencing me, I just think it's an odd way to spend your time.04:27
persiaRAOF: But it's acceptable to require lenny to do anything with a package targeted at lenny, which we inherit.04:28
RAOFpersia: Right.  I was thinking this was an Ubuntu change.04:28
ScottKNo, I'm updating a merge.04:28
persiaRAOF: Oh.  I can't think of a good excuse for that.04:28
ScottKThe new uploader in Debian managed to add a lintian over-ride for a line to long somewhere, but missed our patch that fixed an FTBFS on 64bit.04:29
RAOFWhoops.04:29
ScottKI'm going to see if they have it in their BTS already or not.04:30
ScottKOf course it was uploaded on Lenny freeze day, so it may have been a bit hurried.04:31
persiamay?04:31
ScottKIt could have been planned for then all along.04:31
ScottKAh, it builds on Debian OK anyway.04:32
persiaI suppose, although I'd think the one-week warning would have caused most of those to go in a day or two ahead of schedule04:32
ScottKCheers for Debian/Soyuz sbuild differences.04:32
persiaI don't mind that so much: it's the Ubuntu/Soyuz sbuild differences that catch me every time.04:33
ScottKIt's funny how the freeze stuff goes.04:33
ScottKI maintain 9 packages in Debian.  I knew one needed some minor work and uploaded that 2 days before the freeze.04:34
ScottKIn the 48 hours before the freeze I uploaded 4 of the other 8.04:34
ScottKAll for stuff I didn't know about more than 48 hours before the freeze.04:35
ScottKAll the planning in the world wouldn't have helped me.04:35
=== hemanth__ is now known as hemanth
NCommanderRainCT, ping04:43
* No1Viking is away: BBL05:02
bd_Is there a procedure or tag or something for requesting a (no source changes) rebuild in universe?05:10
LimCorehello05:23
LimCoreIm trying to package FLTK 2 library05:23
LimCorewhat do you think about following directory layout for it05:23
LimCoreprefix="/usr/lib/fltk2/"   so  /usr/lib/fltk2/lib/*.a  /usr/lib/fltk2/include/*.h*  and /usr/lib/fltk2/bin/fltk-config05:24
LimCoreit would reasemble closelly upstream (and overall development libs practise)05:24
RAOFNo, I don't think it would.05:24
LimCorewhy not?05:24
RAOFFirstly, *.a is probably not very useful.  Secondly, headers go in /usr/include, thirdly the libs should go in /usr/lib05:25
LimCoreyeah, I ment libfltk2-dev05:25
LimCorenot just for users05:25
LimCoreHmm, /usr/lib/fltk2/*  seems more organized to me, then having bunch of files in /usr/include/ from various libs.05:26
RAOFSo, you want to be reading the library packaging guide.05:26
RAOFLimCore: With the big disadvantage that nothing will link against anything in /usr/lib/fltk205:27
LimCoreyes Im going to do that,  but Im wondering about selecting this pathes05:27
RAOFIt's not in LD_LIBRARY_PATH05:27
RAOFLimCore: The path you should use are spelled out in that policy.05:27
LimCorehmm05:27
LimCorewell, it's not like Jesus stepped down and give us the policy on 2 stone blocks, never to be upgraded? :)05:28
RAOFCorrect.  On the other hand, the way to upgrade it is to discuss in on debian-devel.05:28
LimCorenot on ubuntu-devel?05:28
RAOFIf it doesn't follow the policy (or have good reasons where it doesn't), it's not going in the archive.05:29
RAOFI'd say debian-devel; this is very much a Debian level policy.05:29
LimCorefltk2 can follow it, no problem.  I was just thinking thta I would organize it other way, to have each lib more self contained dir05:29
LimCoremhm ok05:29
RAOFWelcome to linux.  We do things differently :)05:30
LimCorewhat do you mean?  I liked the defaul FLTK (and wx.. and probably most libs?) behaviour, where all library files go to one dir, and are in {$prefix}lib  ${prefix}include  etc05:31
LimCoreon linux05:31
RAOFCertainly, includes go in $prefix/include, generally as a sub-directory.05:32
RAOFBut all the libraries go in /usr/lib, because if they're _not_ there then nothing can link against them.05:32
LimCoreuhm wait.. ok..  the /usr/local/LIBNAME  was my idea <_< not fltk2 default huh05:33
LimCorestil I think its a good idea =)05:33
LimCoreok anyway, I will make it for  prefix=/usr/05:34
LimCoreabout the linking problem, are you sure?  Isnt extra option for proper LD_ included in the binary when it is build on system where libs are in say /usr/local/libname/05:35
RAOFWell, yes.  You have to use prefix=/usr05:35
RAOFLimCore: Nope.  In fact, having such an RPATH is against policy, and you should strip it out.05:35
LimCoremhm05:35
LimCoreso, ELF can contain extra path to look for libs, but it should be not used right?05:35
RAOFCorrect.05:35
LimCoreok05:36
RAOFApplications should say "I need libfoo.so.6", and it's up to the ld.so to provide that to it.05:36
LimCoreon a similar topic05:36
LimCorehow about making more packages using  ~/etc/ instead brain dead ~/.foo for configs?05:37
persiabd_: Not really.  They require a new source upload (changelog changes only).05:37
bd_persia: oh.05:37
ion_limcore: A freedesktop spec says ~/.config/appname05:37
* LimCore hates how ~ is littered with 100 config files05:37
persiaLimCore: /etc/ is used for system-wide config, ~/.foo is used for user-specific configs.05:37
LimCore ~/etc  not /etc05:37
RAOFLimCore: XDG basedir spec05:38
LimCoreion_: I know, and I think, with respect to freedesktop etc etc, this is totally stupid idea05:38
persiaNo, ~/etc is just not idea.  ~/.config/ is a little better, although it's just hiding stuff that was hidden anyway (that's the leading .)05:38
persias/not idea/not ideal/05:38
* persia uses ~/etc for other things05:38
LimCoreafair, ~/etc/ is a standard among some developers, but it got adopted only in some places (BSD?)05:38
ion_persia: Not only hiding stuff, but grouping things with the same function into their own subdirectory. I like that.05:39
LimCorewhich is sad...  consider backing up your configuration files.   And consider when in time ~ is filled with like 150 config files making it look chaotic05:39
LimCoremore exactly,   ~/etc/appname   or  ~/etc/.appname05:39
persiaion_: I guess, although I rarely want to perform an operation on all of them, and tend to treat each application differently.05:40
ion_I’ve never seen an application using ~/etc (and i’d hate to see one), but i seem to have 36 entries in ~/.config05:40
persiaLimCore: Why is it important that the subdirectory of the home directory be called "etc"?  What is wrong with ".config"?05:40
LimCore.config is also good05:40
persiaLimCore: Ah, so you don't think ~/.config/ is a totally stupid idea :)05:41
LimCoreno, its good05:41
* persia misinterpreted backscroll then05:42
ion_Dotti05:42
ion_Uh. Ditto05:42
LimCorewhat I do not like, is to have 100 directories directly inside ~  because   1) its littering my home   2) its harder to backup05:42
persia1) is supposed to be covered by the convention that .??* is hidden from view.  I don't understand why you claim 2)05:42
NCommanderRAOF, you got a minute05:43
LimCoreoverall I want to see hidden files05:43
LimCorepersia:  tar ... ~/.config      overall, one big directory with all configs (like ~/.config/) is more organized, therefore easier to backup, restore, compare, etc05:44
persiaLimCore: I guess.  I tend to backup /home05:44
* NCommander just does a recursive backup of /home/mcasadevall05:44
NCommandertar cjmgf05:45
ion_persia: Splitting e.g. ~/.foorc, ~/.bardatabase and ~/.bazcache (things of all three categories in the same tree level) to ~/.config/foo/rc, ~/.local/share/bar/database and ~/.cache/baz/whatever is really nice. Although .cache could have been .local/cache IMO.05:45
LimCoreso, since some apps are already using .config   how hard would it be to make most use it?05:45
ScottKHard.05:45
LimCoreion_: that is a nice idea too05:45
persiaLimCore: Typically a trivial source change.  Mind you, it's probably 10,000 individual changes.05:46
persiaAlso, it's the sort of change that is typically only accepted upstream.05:46
ScottKDeath of 1,000 cuts.  Hard.05:46
* LimCore 's program will have a --path-etc 05:46
ion_Not to mention making them migrate from old config to ~/.config05:46
persiaion_: I see the point, although I'm skeptical of the value of trying to do it at a distro-level.05:47
persiaLimCore: How about --user-config to make it clear to more people?05:47
=== hemanth__ is now known as hemanth
ion_persia: I’m not advocating doing that, though i’d prefer upstreams to migrate to XDG basedirs.05:47
persiaion_: I guess.  I'm not happy with XDG basedirs for lots of other reasons: mostly having to do with i10n05:48
LimCorewhats the problem, persia05:48
persiaLimCore: strcmp("Desktop", "デスクトップ"); doesn't return true.05:49
jmarsdenLimCore: tar zcf /path/to/backup/somefile.tar.gz ~/.[!.]*   # should do your config backup for you05:49
LimCorejmarsden: unless I have ~/.myporn05:50
LimCorenot all hidden files in ~ are configs05:50
ion_I have my “Desktop” in ~/.local/share/desktop ;-)05:50
ion_One thing less polluting my precious ~05:50
persiaion_: It's not that way by default.  If that is how XDG basedirs is supposed to be implemented, all the better.05:51
* LimCore installs VISTA to ion_'s ~05:51
NCommanderLimCore, thats just evil05:51
ion_Yeah, not by default, but thanks to Gnome’s XDG basedir compliance, i was able to move it there easily.05:51
* NCommander watches gameplay of Deadly Towers05:51
persiaion_: Do you have some fancy run-time overlay that maps localised names in ~ to ./local/share/foo ?05:52
persia(if so, I want it)05:52
ion_persia: I just set XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/.local/share/desktop" in ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs and moved the directory.05:52
persiaion_: Ah, so it's still a specific localised name :/05:52
LimCorenames like Desktop should not be localized05:53
LimCorethats just idiotic05:53
* LimCore mv /usr /użytkownika ; mv /lib /biblioteki05:53
persiaLimCore: Why?  Many people don't understand the word "Desktop", and may not be able to read any of those characters.05:53
LimCoreI mean the directory names05:54
LimCoreGUIs could translate it05:54
persiaYes, so do I.05:54
LimCorewhy?  for same reason /home is not /dom05:54
persiaErm.  It's a lot easier for there to be a filesystem overlay that provides the localised names rather than having *every* GUI change.05:54
LimCoreor just ln -s05:54
persiaLimCore: Well, at a primitive level that works, but tends to get awkward if you switch your locale.05:55
jmarsdenLimCore: I don't want 15000 symlinks cluttering up my ~ thankyou... how many langauges are there... :-)05:55
ion_jmarsden: The symlink way is not the perfect solution, but it wouldn’t have to implemented *that* badly. :-)05:56
LimCoreln -s Desktop Desssssssssssktop # python language05:56
jmarsdenion_: How woudl you decide which languages to provide symlinks for?05:56
persiaHundreds, and there are 7 basedir names05:56
ion_jmarsden: By looking at the user’s locale settings.05:56
persiajmarsden: One way would be to generate symlinks on session start, and clean up on session end (or do cleanup on session start for crash recovery).05:57
ion_I’m not advocating the proposed symlink way, just speaking hypothetically.05:57
jmarsdenThen I log in in one language but start thinking in another and ... aargh, my dirs are not there they disappeared... ugh.05:58
persiaAh.  ISO 639 provides for 17,029 possible languages (not all are currently implemented)05:58
LimCorewtf05:59
LimCoresome countires really should stop heaving more then 5 languages heh05:59
persiajmarsden: Presumably you tend to log in to a locale in which you think, or are doing specific testing.  If you need multiple simultaneous language support, there are greater issues.05:59
persiaThat said, on-the-fly locale switching would be interesting (if tricky to implement)05:59
persiaAlso, if one implements it with something like ~/.local/share/$(XDGNAME) one has a static representation available for scripting, etc.06:02
=== tritium_ is now known as tritium
jmarsdenYes, the current implementation offers to rename them at session startup, which could make locale-independent scripting awkward06:04
persiaYes indeed.06:06
persiaI still think a FUSE layer to generate the apparent directories without bothering with symlinks would be even better, but it's probably more work.06:07
NCommanderpersia, maybe not, writing FUSE plugins isn't qutie as bad as most other things06:08
NCommander(although file system plugin development is the kings displine)06:08
NCommanderpersia, mind if I steal you for a moment to get an advocation of a package ;-)06:08
persiaNCommander: Fell like giving it a shot?  A plugin would also work.06:08
persiaNCommander: Yes, because I just got the phone call saying I'm supposed to head somewhere else.06:08
NCommanderpersia, d'oh :-P. Bad timimg on my part06:09
NCommanderpersia, I've only been half paying attention to the conversation06:09
LimCoreif I would develop small LGPL user application, and provide correct ubuntu scripts/package, how long can it take to take it to officiall repos?06:09
NCommanderLimCore, not long, post it to revu, and then ask some MOTUs to sponsor06:10
NCommanderLimCore, once its in the archive, just post an updated .diff.gz/dsc file as a bug, and add universe sponsors to update it06:10
ion_Anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=compcache-setup? Thanks.06:10
LimCorebtw06:17
LimCorehow about naming binaries with some extension?06:17
LimCorelike  foo.elf06:17
LimCorethe default of empty extension for binaries is unfortunate for scripting, processing, sorting, etc06:18
LimCore(obviously common utilities like cp mv ls must always remain how they are)06:18
bluefoxicywhy?06:21
bluefoxicyfile /bin/ls06:21
dholbachgood morning06:21
ion_limcore: The fact that some pieces of software opt to decide the file type based on its extension is very unfortunate.06:24
ion_The filenames are *only* for humans. If it is deemed beneficial for humans that the name also tells its type, fine, but software should not base its decision of the type only on it.06:25
LimCoreion_: I don't agree, considerf06:25
LimCore* consider, how would you write a script to resize all your jpg images?06:26
ion_In a perfect world, find foo -mime image/jpeg blahblah06:26
LimCorenoone does that06:27
LimCoreplus, your solution would try to resize my  randomdata.nr04329432 file06:27
LimCoreand/or my dump of encrypted partition, etc06:27
ion_No, it wouldn’t.06:28
LimCorefile utility does FULL parsing of a jpeg image, or just looks and part of file that /seems/ to be a header06:29
LimCorebut also can be random data06:29
LimCoreI think perfect script would find *.jpg[e] , and then file them to confirm06:30
LimCore.jp[e]g06:30
ion_That would fail with images/Foo, which happens to contain JPEG data.06:31
LimCoreso "Foo" is the file name?06:32
ion_See Windows® for the worst example: deciding that it’s executable because its human identifier happens to end with the string “.exe”06:32
ion_s/example/case/06:33
LimCorethis is a good example, if you think about it more06:33
LimCoreI mean, its the right thing to do06:33
ion_Ha! :-)06:33
LimCoreat first look, it looks noob06:33
jmarsdenSince when is executing a JPG the right thing to do?06:33
LimCorebut then, using some data as JPG just because first N bytes /seem/ to look like jpeg, is as wrong06:33
LimCorejmarsden: executing?  we talk about finding jpeg's (to resize them, in script)06:34
jmarsdenIf you have one named foo.exe then by your reasoning the right thing to do with ti ti always to execute it.06:34
jmarsdens/ti ti/it is/06:35
LimCoreno06:35
LimCoredo action for jpeg, if file is named *.jp[e]g AND if it is the proper file type (header)06:35
jmarsdenYou said that  deciding that it’s executable because its human identifier happens to end with the string “.exe”  is "the right thing to do"  -- I think!?06:36
LimCoreyes, but still check the actuall file type (header)06:36
jmarsdenIf you can determine a file's type from the header, then it's type is independent of its name.  If you can;t fully do so because of random weird exceptions, then requiring both name.exe *and* a header still doesn't get you 100% (encrypted filesystem saved as junk.exe)...06:38
LimCoreoverall the point was:    file extensions are helpfull for people to sort and oraganize files, obivously.  Too bad that executables are human-identified by an EMPTY extension.  How about introducing another extension, like  .run  or .elf    That would make it nicer for users.06:38
jmarsdenLimCore: Only for users who identify files that way.. as in, users trained in the ways of MSDOS.06:39
LimCorewhy that way is wrong?06:39
jmarsdenBetter to absorb a little of the culture they are migrating into.06:39
LimCorejmarsden: foo.jpg.  What is it?  (normally) ?06:39
ion_A typo :-) It’s jpeg.06:39
LimCorefoo.html is what?06:39
LimCoreand foo is...?06:39
ion_media/text/todo: UTF-8 Unicode text06:40
LimCoreon windows world, "foo.exe" is executable.  Nicer to talk about it, search for it, etc.  Linux lacks this06:40
LimCoreLinux user can say "send me the JPEGs" or "send me the PDF version"  but can not say "send me the exe"06:41
jmarsdenDifferent OS worlds have different conventions and different expectations.  If you prefer those of one world, live and work and play in that one... :-)06:41
LimCorewe could fix that by adding say .elf06:41
LimCoreor .run  (I do not like .bin)06:41
LimCorejmarsden: windows/dos got that one better then linux, so we could incorporate the better idea.  Unless "foo" is nicer for humans then "foo.run" for some reason?06:42
ion_Then you would lose the possibility to replace the file with an alternative implementation in a different format.06:42
jmarsdenLimCore: It is shorter to type, too.06:42
LimCoreI like foo.elf,  but since not all is ELF as ion_ noted,  foo.run could be generic06:42
ion_Yeah, much better than Linux. Just look at all the virus attachments called foo.jpeg.exe, with the OS helpfully hiding part of their human name. :-)06:42
jmarsdenand I used Linux when the standard binary executable format was a.out ...06:42
LimCoreion_: how this argument makes any sense? is it FUD =) ?06:43
ion_Just pointing out the system’s idiocy.06:43
LimCorewhich doesnt have nothing to do with good/bad evaluation of foo.run right?06:43
jmarsdenSo what are .BAT files in Windnows... why are they not named .EXE since they are executable?  Likewise, if I install a JRE do I need to rename all *.jar files to *.exe or *.run now, since they just became executable?  The whole thing breaks down.06:44
LimCorehidding part of file name is stupid. assuming there is just one "." in file is stupid too.  I'm not proposing either of that06:44
ion_Feel free to call it foo.run if you deem it to be helpful for a human, but please don’t kill the functionality which parses the file’s header to decide how to run it. :-)06:45
ion_File names are only for humans. Computers could live with plain inode numbers.06:45
LimCorejmarsden: lets leave .sh and .jar  as they are.  But add .elf for elf flies.   And .run as general indication that this file is some program06:45
ion_Btw, calling stuff in $PATH foo.run is not helpful for humans.06:45
ScottKI thought that was .exe06:45
LimCoreion_: yes, this is my idea.  renaming to .foo does not brake file, but it helps humans06:45
LimCoreion_: leave standard tools like  ls mv dd tar apt-get etc, as they are.  Use new for bigger new applications.06:46
LimCoreI think some applicaions do that already06:46
jmarsden for i in /bin/* /usr/bin/* ; do file $i |grep -sq executable && mv $i $i.run ; done  # would be cool on your system, then, right?  Go ahead and try it :-)06:46
LimCoreyes they do:  /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin06:47
ion_Either of the facts that it has the executable bit on *and* it resides in the binary directory is enough for me as a human. :-)06:47
LimCoreion_:  www.omg.com/foo  what is it?06:47
LimCoreion_:  www.omg.com/foo.exe  what is it?06:47
LucidFoxGah, why does _every_ management program for iriver only support MTP?06:47
LucidFoxDoes nobody use UMS, or what?06:48
LimCore(and don't start FUD with "its a virus" =)06:48
ion_limcore: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI “What to leave out”06:48
LimCoreion_: .run will not change06:49
ion_limcore: I’ve replaced multiple http://something/foos where foo is a JPEG with a HTML page that displays the JPEG without the URLs breaking.06:49
LimCoreits for another use case06:49
LimCore"Download https://test.com/foo.exe"  - this is obviously an information to get a program06:50
LimCorein linux world this is not as comfortable06:50
ion_Please don’t abuse the word FUD. The fact that Windows® doesn’t require an executable bit to be set for it to run stuff is just plain wrong. That statement is not spreading FUD.06:50
jmarsdenLimCore: Now imagine files on a shared filesystem that are executable on PPC machines ... should they be named .run even if they do not run on x86 machines?  Or do we have to create special file system overlays so only files that are executable on one particular architecture are seen as being .run files?06:51
LimCoreit is indeed worng; I was saying that it would be FUD to say that there shouldnt be any binaries on www anyway06:51
jmarsdenLimCore: In the Linux world we do not geenrally pass random executable binaries around...06:51
LimCorejmarsden: I would name them  foo.i386.run  foo.ppc.run etc06:51
jmarsdenVery short to type... nice... ?06:51
LimCorehttps://x.com/foo06:52
LimCorehttps://x.com/foo.i386.run06:52
ScottKHeaven help us no.  Please don't try to make the file names mean anything.06:52
LimCoreand once it is downloaded,  ln -s, desktop & menu shortcut,  and bash completion06:52
jmarsdenLimCore: This adds complexity and mess, and gains us what, exactly?06:53
ScottKIt sounds like a lot of work for no gain.06:53
* LimCore renames all ScottK's .jpeg .png .mp3 .odt .pdf .txt .c .cpp .h and .sh to extention-less format. Cool?06:53
ion_Well, my photos are already under a photos directory, my music is in a music tree, my text files are in a text directory. Sure, go ahead.06:54
* NCommander does one better, and attachs resource forks and filetype meta data to LimCore's files06:54
ScottKIf those things had ways of knowing otherwise, I'd be in favor.06:54
LimCorejmarsden: way for users to know that file is an probably executable just by knowing file name,  same as foo.jpg - you know it (should be) an image.06:54
NCommanderScottK, can I get you to look over a package in REVU when you have a moment?06:54
ScottKNCommander: No.  I'm about to fall over.06:54
LimCoreion_: ~/from_alice/my_story/    camp.jpg  camp.mp3  camp.pdf    would you like to have this extenion-less?06:55
NCommanderMan, MOTU's dropping like flies06:55
ion_I wouldn’t mind all programs showing the file’s type (based on its MIME type) in a column next to the filename.06:55
ScottKNCommander: Also I just finished writing my thoughts on the Launchpad 3.0 specs.06:55
NCommanderScottK, do I need to wear flame-resistant firegear, or will normal sunblock work ;-)06:55
ScottKNCommander: I'm grumpy even for me as a result.  You don't want me reviewing your package right now.06:55
LimCoreion_: I wouldnt too.  But .run is good for other cases06:55
NCommandereh06:55
* NCommander gets his bunker gear on, and hugs a charged hose06:55
ScottKNCommander: The top 5 things on my list weren't on theres.06:56
LimCoreScottK: why so grumpy missed your meal? Here, have a chilloutburger06:56
ion_chilloutburger.food, you mean.06:56
NCommanderScottK, Eh, I already have my beef with LP 3.006:56
HobbseeLucidFox: the default one works fine with UMS....06:56
* LimCore cooks chilloutburger.food06:56
NCommanderHobbsee, what is UMS? (I keep thinking of the Sony disc)06:56
ScottKNCommander: #2 was please make the U/I suck less by putting the old one back.06:56
LucidFoxHobbsee> What default one?06:57
jmarsdenLimCore: cooks.verb chilloutburger.human.food ?06:57
NCommanderScottK, what was 1, and 3-5?06:57
HobbseeLucidFox: iriverplus or something.06:57
HobbseeNCommander: it's the mass storage device thing06:57
ScottK#1 was fix security by signing PPAs and not leaving signed .sources files around where anyone can find them.06:57
LimCorePeople, this is simple.  For most formats you can say cool.JPG  cool.MP3  and people know instantly "its an image"  "its music".   You can NOT do that with binaries on linux (only on dos and windows). We miss this option06:57
LucidFoxProprietary and Windows-only? You think I'm EVER going to install that?06:57
HobbseeLucidFox: wine, no?06:58
ScottK#3 was feature parity with the email interface since I know #2 isn't happening.06:58
ScottKI don't remember the rest.06:58
LucidFoxI said "proprietary" just in case "Windows-only" isn't enough.06:58
HobbseeLucidFox: heh, fair enough.  i don't know of linux-based ones, sorry.  do tell me if you find some good ones06:58
NCommanderScottK, you need caffiene. As for #1, there's been a lot of talk about how to implement that sanely in one of Soyuz's bugs06:58
LucidFoxI was going to write one, actually, because I couldn't find any06:58
jmarsdenLucidFox: Tried iriverter?06:59
LucidFoxOr maybe tweak one of the existing ones to work with UMS06:59
HobbseeNCommander: yes, there's been talk.  and no action.06:59
ScottKNCommander: The only sane way to do it would have been before they released the feature.06:59
LucidFoxjmarsden> it's just a converter06:59
NCommanderScottK, which would have been what?06:59
HobbseeScottK: no, they can retroactively fix it.07:00
LimCoresometimes I think linux could use some centrallized leadership (like its kernel has)07:00
ScottKNCommander: The only sane way to have handled signing PPAs would have been to have it that way from the beginning.07:00
ScottKWhatever happens now can only reduce the insanity, not eliminate it.07:00
HobbseeScottK: no, they can stop it from causing more damage07:01
ScottKHobbsee: That's true.07:01
Hobbseepresumably they can say "right, we've accepted all these packages.  we'll never accept them again"07:01
ScottKHobbsee: With the current DNS cache poisoning issues, I've deleted all the packages out of my PPAs.07:01
ScottKI encourage others to do the same.07:01
HobbseeScottK: they're still in librarian.07:02
AnAntRegarding the swt-gtk build failure (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16468843/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.swt-gtk_3.4-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz), it seems that the problem is actually with openjdk-6-jdk that it doesn't depend on libxt-dev, can someone confirm this ?07:02
ScottKTrue, but at least they aren't apt-getable.07:02
LimCoreyou don't pgp sign PPas?07:03
ScottKSince my PPA revision numbers are lower than the archive's, grabbing the .changes files, while a potential problem elsewhere, isn't a problem for the stuff I had in PPAs.07:03
ScottKLimCore: The uploads are signed, but the repositories are not.07:03
ScottKSo no signed binaries.07:03
LimCorebecause lunchpad do not have users priv keys right?07:04
Hobbseecorrect.07:04
Hobbseeand they're not getting them.07:04
ScottKThey could use a distro key or something.  Binaries in Ubuntu are typically signed by the archive.07:04
HobbseeScottK: twitch.07:04
ScottKWhat?07:04
HobbseeScottK: what's the betting any keys end up being stored on librarian too.07:04
ScottKYeah.07:04
ScottKBecause who could possibly find them there.07:05
LucidFoxAnAnt> I can test this in pbuilder07:05
LimCorehow about: 1) lunchpad signs binary with lunchpad's key   2) user downloads binary and checks lunchpad's sign  3) user signs lunchpad's sign with his own key and re-uploads that07:05
LimCorethis could be scripted07:05
LucidFoxWhy does SWT depend on Xt, though?07:05
ion_lunchpad :-)07:05
LucidFoxGTK doesn't07:05
ScottKLimCore: It's a proprietary system.  I"ll let them design it.07:05
AnAntLucidFox: swt-gtk builds in ppc arch but not other archs07:05
jmarsdenMaybe we need to design its successor, dinnerpad?07:06
HobbseeLimCore: wrong place for any such discussions.07:06
LimCoreScottK: you dont like propertiary too much do you?  Its not like SCO07:06
AnAntLucidFox: I found the reason is that default-jdk depends on openjdk on all archs except for ppc07:06
AnAntLucidFox: in ppc, default-jdk depends on gcj's jdk07:06
ion_jmarsden: I’m already using breakfastpad.07:06
ScottKLimCore: I consider dependency on proprietary tools a business risk.07:06
AnAntLucidFox: it's openjdk-6-jdk that depends on xt07:06
ScottKLimCore: I would suddenly like the way Launchpad works if they open the source.07:07
ScottKerr07:07
ScottKwould no07:07
ScottKach07:07
ScottKI would not suddenly ...07:07
ScottKYes, I need to go to bed.07:07
LimCoreyou wouldnt like it even if it would be open source?07:07
ScottKI think the current design is crap.07:08
LimCoredunno07:08
ScottKOpen source wouldn't make it less so.07:08
ScottKThe fact that it's proprietary is worse.07:08
ion_Being open-source doesn’t magically make software/services/interfaces/whatever good. :-)07:08
ScottKExactly.07:08
LimCoreI think linux *do* need commerciall07:08
LimCore(on a related topic)07:09
ScottKGo ponder the elegance of a design that needs over 400 database queries to render one web page.07:09
LimCorereversecache ftw? =)07:09
LimCorebut, yeah.07:09
LimCoreis source of their page open?07:09
ScottKNo.07:10
LimCorehow do you know then?07:10
LucidFoxScottK> WHAT?!07:10
jmarsdenThey embed that info into the page as a comment07:10
ScottKBut embedded in each Launchpad page in an html comment at the bottom is the number of queries and how long they took07:10
LimCoreoh07:10
LimCorewell, it does work fast07:10
LucidFoxHoly.....07:10
ScottKJust to pick a bug page I have open: <!-- at least 442 queries issued in 4.60 seconds -->07:11
LimCoreperhaps this IS faster for their DB system07:11
LimCorethen 10 huge queries07:11
LucidFox*facepalm*07:11
LimCorewell, probably not07:11
ScottKLaunchpad pages are substantially slower than Debian BTS.07:11
* Hobbsee advises that all launchpad talk should go to #launchpad, and is offtopic here.07:12
jmarsdenHobbsee: So was adding .run to all ELF binaries :-)07:12
* LimCore smacks jmarsden with an Ballmer for FUD =)07:13
ScottKHobbsee: I disagree.  We're stuck with it and MOTU were asked for input on 3.0.  I think to say we can only discuss that on #launchpad is wrong.07:13
ScottKBut I'm going to go to be anyway, so it doesn't matter.07:13
ScottKGood night.07:13
Hobbseejmarsden: well, i can forward that elsewhere too07:13
LimCorejmarsden: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/oosplash.bin  Notice the .bin. I like it.  Lets make it more official. And .run not .bin IMHO07:13
ion_I wonder how many FUD cards limcore has in his pocket. :-)07:14
Hobbseeion_: too many.07:14
LimCoreion_: I hope I will not have to use any mor07:14
LimCore-e07:14
=== hemanth__ is now known as hemanth
LimCoreok, does anyone here can make some bigger chane in ubuntu, that requires some balls, all is it not the place?   Linux is quite good because Linus makes decisions when needed07:15
* ion_ has an urge to question the quality of OpenOffice’s architecture as a design model, but instead bites his tongue. ;-)07:16
LucidFoxLimCore> Uhm07:16
LimCoreif .run is a bad idea then why; if it is good, then lets do it07:16
LucidFoxYou're obviously not familiar with the Linux kernel development process.07:16
jmarsdenLimCore: Go ahead, on your own PC, do it.07:16
LucidFoxIf you think Linus alone decides everything.07:16
LucidFoxAnd that his word is law.07:16
LimCoreLucidFox: his word is law,  but he dont have time to make decissions on ALL topic07:17
LucidFoxLimCore> [citation needed]07:17
LimCorejmarsden: I did07:17
LimCorejmarsden: works good07:18
ion_Even he himself says he’d like more Linux branching to exist. :-)07:18
LimCoresure, but Linus finally accepts (or not) other trees to official linux vanilla kernel07:19
jmarsdenLimCore: For all ELF binaries?  OK.  Now find out how many scripts just broke :-)07:19
LimCorejmarsden: I written that 2 times alrady, can you scrollback?07:19
LimCore[07:16] <LimCore> (obviously common utilities like cp mv ls must always remain how they are)07:20
LimCoreidea would be for new applications07:20
ion_Yeah, since everyone loves inconsistency.07:21
LucidFoxLimCore> Mono already uses exe and dll.07:21
jmarsdenAnd who decides what is common vs uncommon?  And how does it help the user who now has to learn two schemes, one for common utilities and one for new ones???07:21
LimCoreion_: unless you got other idea? legacy is a **** but what can you do.  And "ls" is nice and short07:21
LimCorewhat is there to learn?07:21
LucidFoxUnder Linux, whether or not a file is executable is decided by permissions07:22
ion_How about this for an ”other idea”: let’s keep it as it is and not switch to an ugly legacy scheme from MS-DOS. :-)07:22
LucidFoxAnd you aren't supposed to send executables by mail anyway07:22
LimCorescheme from MS-DOS is better, for the reasons presented, unless someone can show they where false07:22
* LimCore minus the 8.3 part =)07:22
LucidFoxThe extension is used to signal the file format.07:23
AnAntLucidFox: got my point ?07:23
ion_lucidfox: For humans, not computers.07:23
LucidFox"Executable" is not a file format, it's what you can do with the file.07:23
LimCoreThis is really simple:  all linux files have extension that allow users to quickly know what it is (should be).  With the exception of ELF binaries, that use empty-extension.  WHY?!07:23
LucidFoxNot just ELF binaries. All files in /usr/bin.07:24
LucidFoxWhich may be ELF binaries, shell scripts, Python scripts, etc07:24
LimCoreshell scripts are named .sh  and python .py07:24
ion_If it’s in $PATH and it has the executable bit on, you might be correct assuming it’s executable. :-)07:24
LimCoreunless they are in /usr/bin07:24
LimCorepython files are .py  Unless in /usr/bin - they there have extension trunacted07:25
LimCorelets do exactly THE SAME, for ELF binaries.07:25
LucidFoxProprietary software distributors already do that :p07:26
HobbseeLimCore: fwiw, you won't get a consensus on irc, that will actually affect the distro.07:26
HobbseeLimCore: so, you're effectively wasting your breathe.07:26
Hobbsee-e07:26
LimCoreLucidFox: why?07:26
LimCoreLucidFox: I find it nice and helpfull.  This isnt to help them (like binary blobs), so it must be to help end users (works for me)07:27
dholbachbobbo: congratulations!07:27
LimCoreHobbsee: I never consider discussion with good developers a waste07:28
LucidFoxPer dholbach07:28
HobbseeLimCore: well, it depends on what your aims are.  if you actually want to see stuff change...07:28
LimCorethen I will later present it on ml07:28
Hobbseefiled that backport request yet?07:29
LimCoreno, chence the later part07:29
LimCores/later/laaaaaaaaater07:29
Hobbseeyeesh.  you have strange ideas of being productive.07:29
LimCoreit's called ideas, and works good with delegating07:30
LimCorelike, I would prefer to pay someone say 100$ and they would do the realtivelly easy task of making "paperwork". Perhaps buy ubuntu support? Will see.07:31
NCommanderLucidFox, ping?07:31
LucidFoxNCommander> Yes?07:32
LimCoreHobbsee: you seem to not like this idea? If all brilliant ubuntu developers would be doing easy stuff, we will be getting nowwhere07:32
NCommanderLucidFox, can I steal you for 10 minutes to review a package on REVU?07:32
AnAntLucidFox: did you get my point about openjdk ?07:32
LucidFoxAnAnt> What point?07:33
LucidFoxNCommander> Sure07:33
AnAnt09:05 <AnAnt> LucidFox: swt-gtk builds in ppc arch but not other archs07:33
AnAnt09:06 <AnAnt> LucidFox: I found the reason is that default-jdk depends on openjdk on all archs except for ppc07:33
AnAnt09:06 <AnAnt> LucidFox: in ppc, default-jdk depends on gcj's jdk07:34
AnAnt09:06 <AnAnt> LucidFox: it's openjdk-6-jdk that depends on xt07:34
NCommanderLucidFox, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pangomm07:34
LucidFoxWhy don't we change swt-gtk to build with gcj, then?07:34
LucidFox:)07:34
AnAntyou were asking why swt-gtk depends on xt, I think it's openjdk that depends on xt, not swt-gtk07:34
HobbseeLimCore: well, this comes from someone who complains that bugs are not getting fixed.  And then has many repeated rants, in many channels, after being told what he can do to actually get his bug fixed.  But chooses not to do it.07:34
HobbseeLimCore: you can't have it both ways.07:34
LucidFoxNCommander> looking07:35
Hobbseeideas are great, yes, but if you & everyone else never end up doing the work to bring them to action, then you've not gained anything.07:35
LimCoreHobbsee: no, I ment for others to get this fixed. While it sounds probably selfish/whatever, the point is, I see myself as doing more complicated contributions (in tasks where I could help), instead of doing things that are easy, or which I do not have expeericne with (and therefore wasting my time)07:35
LucidFoxcontrol.in? ewwww07:35
AnAntLucidFox: hello ?07:36
LimCoreHobbsee: or, I could just donate $$ so that someone would do that. If my next contract works out, I will07:36
NCommanderLucidFox, it's going to be included in main as a GNOME package, and the Desktop team has great love of CDBS, so I honoured that request07:36
HobbseeLimCore: i would ask that you go on that path to more complicated contributions, and not continue your various rants here, then.07:37
LucidFoxUhm... CDBS doesn't imply control.in07:37
LimCoreHobbsee: however, Im looking forward to have time to fix /some/ bugs by hand, even to excercise.  Yeah, Im doing that.07:37
LimCoreHobbsee: I do no "various rants here", btw :)07:38
Hobbseesimple.  spend less time ranting in multiple channels :)07:38
NCommanderLucidFox, I've never seen a CDBS package that doesn't use it07:38
NCommander(I wasn't even aware that CDBS packages could support regular control files and not require control.in (which I do find is ugly)07:38
HobbseeNCommander: i beg to differ.07:38
LimCoreHobbsee: sure I do that already07:39
NCommanderHobbsee, I said I never seen, I didn't say they didn't exist :-P07:39
NCommanderEvery GNOME package however uses control.in and CDBS07:39
HobbseeNCommander: most of the ones that i've touched are by cdbs, and don't seem to have a control.in.  Check out kde stuff :P07:39
ion_How soon will LimCore use one of his many FUD cards on Hobbsee? On another note, someone should come up with a good verb for using a FUD card inappropriately. :-)07:39
NCommanderSo KDE is nicely packaged and less hackish ;-)07:40
NCommanderion_, fuc*ed ;-)07:40
LucidFoxNCommander> smplayer07:40
Hobbseeion_: he won't suceed.  *shrug*07:40
LucidFoxand a zillion more CDBS packages07:40
LucidFoxThe Ubuntu Packaging Guide doesn't recommend control.in with CDBS07:41
LimCoreion_: as soon as soon someone will spread missinformation et07:41
NCommanderLucidFox, the only CDBS packages I touch are the ones used by GNOME07:41
LucidFoxah07:41
AnAntFUD=Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt ?07:41
NCommanderLucidFox, tell that to the desktop team :-/07:41
LimCoreyes07:41
LucidFoxwell, they use it - I'm not sure why07:41
NCommandergucharmap, gtkmm, glibmm, and quite a few others use CDBS with controlin07:41
LucidFoxWhat's the postinst file for?07:41
NCommanderLucidFox, ldconfig07:41
NCommanderYou need to run it after installing a shared library so the dynamic linker knows it exists07:41
NCommander(it's per Debian policy)07:42
ion_ncommander: dh_makeshlibs automatically adds ldconfig to postinst.07:44
NCommanderion_, it trips a lintian error if it isn't there explicately07:44
ion_Huh. That sounds strange.07:44
NCommanderion_, http://lintian.debian.org/tags/postinst-must-call-ldconfig.html07:45
NCommandermight be a bug in lintian though07:47
ion_Perhaps dh_makeshlibs doesn’t get called from debian/rules, or debhelper additions don’t make it into the final postinst.07:47
NCommanderion_, it does end up in the postrm07:47
LucidFoxjust checked cairo and cairomm - they don't use .postinst files07:47
NCommanderShould I write it off as a bug in lintian that it tripped that?07:48
LucidFoxcairo calls dh_makeshlibs, cairomm uses cdbs07:48
LimCoreion_: jmarsden: do you want to read my idea with your remarks added (and possible fixes of them), and comment revised version?07:48
* ion_ takes a quick look at ncommander’s packaging...07:48
NCommanderMight be a weird fluke07:48
NCommanderI started packaging on Hardy, and then upgraded to intrepid somewhat in07:48
ion_The #DEBHELPER# tag is in the postinst, and debian/rules includes cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk. Huh.07:49
* NCommander is not going to figure it out07:50
NCommanderAs I said, I used CDBS more as a convience to help get it upstream into Debian07:50
NCommanderBut all of my other packages use normal non-CDBS rules07:50
LucidFoxNCommander> Commented07:51
NCommanderLucidFox, the "This packaging is under the GPL" refers to stuff in the debian folder07:52
LucidFoxyes, I know07:52
NCommanderNot the actual software07:52
LucidFoxbut it's recommended to have it match upstream07:52
NCommanderNo, no07:52
LucidFoxso that patches can be sent to upstream07:52
NCommanderUpstream as in Debian07:52
ion_ncommander: Would you mind sharing a built binary on which lintian gives the complaint? I’d like to look at the generated postinst, and i’m too lazy to build it myself. :-)07:52
NCommanderIt's going into Debian GNOME's archive07:52
LucidFoxNo, upstream as in upstream07:52
NCommanderion_, I don't have one ATM07:52
NCommanderLucidFox, GNOME has no intention of including debian folders07:52
LucidFoxNot debian folders, patches07:53
NCommanderLucidFox, those patches are from their tracker07:53
LucidFoxFuture patches07:53
NCommanderBut I'll change the debian licensing to LGPL :-P07:53
NCommanderOr permissive07:53
LucidFoxYou can't use permissive :)07:53
LucidFoxbecause the package is a derivative work of the upstream software07:54
NCommanderSO how can packages use GPL packaging for packages that are under a GPL incompatible license07:54
* NCommander has never heard of this arguement before07:54
LucidFoxSo for LGPL 2.1+, that means that it legally can only be LGPL or GPL07:54
LucidFoxNCommander> They can't.07:54
slangasekthe debian packaging is almost certainly not a derivative work of the upstream software07:54
LucidFoxReally?07:55
LucidFoxWhat about patches?07:55
NCommanderLucidFox, Less then 10 lines usually means they aren't copyrightable07:55
LimCoreheh... http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10930/07:55
slangasekthe common sense interpretation of "packaging" doesn't include patches :)07:55
LucidFoxNCommander> They are, the question is whether it can be enforced07:56
NCommanderAs for the patch writer, that's up to them to decide what license to submit it under07:56
LucidFoxslangasek> I'm just retelling what I was told07:56
NCommanderBoth patches I include are from the bugzilla tracker07:56
LucidFoxFor videotrans, I was told to change the license from GPL to the upstream permissive license07:56
NCommander(and a generic patch that makes it possible to build without running autoconf in the build environment)07:56
LucidFoxpatches being cited07:56
* NCommander just makes it LGPL and kills the arguement right here and now07:57
NCommanderLucidFox, changes made and building07:57
LucidFoxNCommander> heh07:58
NCommanderLucidFox, built, uploading07:58
NCommander(ccache is an awesome thing ;-))07:58
LucidFoxI think this should be discussed at the mailing list, though07:59
NCommanderLucidFox, well, I resolved it for this package, but yeah, I agree, might be worth bringing up on u-motu/d-devel07:59
NCommanderLucidFox, care to advocate it once it pops up on REVU, and you confirm it builds?08:00
NCommanderBTW, LucidFox you need to merge your accounts if you want your MOTUness status back :-P08:00
NCommanderer, wait08:01
NCommanderHold on, ignore that upload08:01
LucidFoxNCommander> I did merge my accounts08:02
NCommanderOh08:02
NCommandercrud08:02
LucidFoxI said it twice on the mailing list, in fact08:02
NCommanderWere all of your accounts MOTU?08:02
LucidFoxonly one08:02
LucidFoxthe other wasn't08:02
NCommander(you must have merged one that wasn't, and lost your reviewer status"08:02
NCommanderIt's a slightly hiccup in the merge system08:02
LucidFoxso I'll now need to re-merge the MOTU one?08:02
NCommanderIf you have more then one accounts, and they aren't all contributor ...08:02
NCommanderNo08:02
NCommanderI need to tweak teh DB08:02
NCommanderand remake you one manually08:02
NCommanderSInce your old accounts were deleted after merging08:03
LucidFoxBy the way, is it safe to use debhelper 7 with cdbs? (I don't know)08:03
NCommanderLucidFox, no idea08:04
NCommanderrevu1@spooky:/srv/revu-production$ scripts/alter_user.py -n sikon -l reviewer08:04
NCommanderAltering sikon to level reviewer08:04
NCommanderOk, your in business08:04
NCommanderLucidFox, CDBS works fine with debhelper 708:06
AnAntwhy is ubuntu-java always dead ?!08:07
NCommander(I tried changing the compat file to 6, and my build broke because 6 can't on move rename)08:07
NCommanderLucidFox, as soon as this revision appears on REVU (at 09:20 REVU time, can you advocate since I resolved everything?)08:09
LucidFoxI'll build it in pbuilder first08:10
NCommanderOf course :-P08:10
* NCommander has gotten better at packaging verus the 20 or so uploads codeblocks took :-)08:11
LucidFoxheh08:12
LucidFoxWell, codeblocks _was_ a complex package08:12
NCommanderIt has four seperate attempts at packaging it08:12
NCommanderSo yeah08:13
NCommanderThat was fun08:13
NCommanderUpstream rebuffed my efforts to make changes08:13
NCommander(something to the sound of "**** off, we don't care")08:13
LucidFoxWell, upstreams tend to do that08:13
LucidFoxIt's been a year since I've been trying to get the lsb_release patch into psi upstream, and they've _just_ set the bug to "assigned"08:14
NCommanderVery few people care about lsb08:14
* NCommander rolls eyes08:14
LucidFoxWell08:14
NCommanderEven Debian isn't lsb compatible out of the box08:14
LucidFoxIt's not exactly related to USB08:14
LucidFox* LSB08:14
NCommanderYOu need to use alien to convert LSB packages08:14
NCommanderOr install RPM :-P08:14
LucidFoxThat patch is so that Ubuntu isn't misidentified as Debian08:15
* NCommander tackles DktrKranz 08:15
LucidFoxScottK> In case you're interested, I've uploaded the KDE version of subtitlecomposer08:15
NCommanderDktrKranz, can I get you on a +1 on a REVU package after LucidFox finishs checking it over?08:15
* DktrKranz hides08:15
LucidFoxlol08:16
DktrKranzNCommander, everything has a price, I start from 150 euros08:16
LucidFoxhahaha08:16
NCommanderCrap, thats more money then the US has spent on the Iraq war with current conversion rates08:16
DktrKranzI have family08:16
NCommanderI have poverty08:16
* DktrKranz is unsure about which one is worse08:17
ion_I have IRC – http://heh.fi/tmp/i_have08:17
NCommanderfamily, cause they just suck more money out of the bank :-P08:17
NCommanderLucidFox, its up08:17
DktrKranzNCommander, when REVU is up, I can maintain family, just ask my review ;)08:18
* NCommander hears his joke lameness meter explode08:18
NCommanderBah08:18
NCommanderNow I need to go apt-get another one08:19
NCommanderOh, crud08:20
NCommanderChrono Trigger for the Nintendo DS08:20
NCommanderThere goes my life all over again08:20
LucidFoxBy the way, if any MOTU is up for reviewing Java libraries, I have http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libbrowserlauncher2-java08:20
* NCommander can predict his contribution rate to Ubuntu dropping to zero08:20
LucidFoxConsoles? Meh.08:20
NCommanderChrono Trigger is just an awesome game08:21
NCommanderSealed Door is still an awesome tune08:21
NCommanderI used it as a ringtone for awhile08:21
LucidFox334 kb diff.gz?!08:22
LucidFoxhmm, autoconf patch08:22
DktrKranzNCommander, I always dreamt to drive Epoch ;)08:22
NCommanderDktrKranz, so I take it you didn't crash it into Lavos?08:22
LucidFoxit has autom4te.cache08:23
* NCommander listens to "World Revolution"08:23
DktrKranzNCommander, I did it intentionally08:23
NCommanderd'oh08:23
NCommanderFatality on my part08:23
NCommanderDktrKranz, fighting Lavos's out shell isn't too bad, you just need to beat it, get to the save point, and use the portal to return to the End of Time to recover08:24
NCommander*outer08:24
DktrKranzmy Chrono was too powerful, I killed it at the Millenarian Fair ;)08:25
DktrKranzjust choose right teleporter and enjoy the figth08:25
NCommanderWow, you didn't revive Crono?08:25
NCommanderOh, THAT one08:25
NCommanderYeah, you get the quickie ending, but you can only do that on New Game+ though O_o;08:25
LucidFoxOooh, webkit is in main now08:26
DktrKranzof course, being at level 4 isn't a good choice to die an horrible death :)08:26
NCommanderFirst time through, I spent a week figuring out all the side quests08:26
LucidFoxwebkit, openjdk and KDE4 - what a trio08:26
DktrKranzLucidFox, so... evolution webkit backend should come in soon08:27
LucidFoxWell, I use Thunderbird, so I don't care about that08:27
LucidFoxif yelp switches to it, though...08:27
NCommanderI'd like to see a GNOME based browser that used webkit vs. gecko08:27
* NCommander remembers Black Omen08:28
DktrKranzanyone knows where seahorse-agent landed? seahorse changelog states it has been moved to another source, but I can't find it08:28
LucidFoxI: libpangomm-1.4-1: no-symbols-control-file usr/lib/libpangomm-1.4.so.1.0.3008:30
NCommanderLucidFox, O_o?08:32
NCommanderI don't get that08:32
LucidFoxhmm08:33
slangasekwell, -I is informative stuff only08:35
ion_See dpkg-gensymbols(1)08:35
slangasekdpkg-gensymbols ftw, but not at all mandatory :)08:36
LucidFoxgtkmm, cairomm and Qt don't have symbols files either08:36
LucidFoxso I guess I'll ignore that one08:36
NCommanderheh08:37
NCommanderThank you08:37
NCommanderAdding it would require patching cdbs08:37
NCommanderANd that sounds like as much fun as poking a sleeping dragon08:37
slangasekno, it wouldn't08:37
slangasekyou would create a debian/libpangomm-1.4-1.symbols file statically, and debhelper (via cdbs) would use it automatically08:38
LucidFoxNCommander> Posted the one remaining objection I do have08:38
ion_ncommander: cdbs calls dh_makeshlibdeps, which calls dpkg-gensymbols08:38
ion_Also, adding a dpkg-gensymbols verification manually wouldn’t have required patching cdbs.08:39
LucidFoxWhat good would a symbols file be for a C++ library, anyway?08:39
slangasekthe same good it would be for every other library?08:40
NCommanderLucidFox, new upload is already up with it gone08:40
slangasekwhy would C++ be different?08:40
LucidFoxOh.08:40
NCommanderLucidFox, so I get a +1 ;-)08:42
LucidFoxWell, apart from the fact that "consistant" is spelled "consistent"...08:44
LucidFoxslangasek> Is a misspelling in a patch file name a blocker?08:44
slangasekuh08:44
slangaseknot for me? :)08:44
* NCommander twichs08:45
NCommanderMost patch files don't have comments added by the authors :-P08:45
LucidFoxNCommander> Advocated08:47
NCommanderScore08:47
NCommanderslangasek, can I convience you to look at it, poke it with a stick, and maybe get a second advocation08:48
NCommander^?08:48
slangasekwhere am I meant to be looking?08:49
LucidFoxhttp://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pangomm08:49
NCommanderhttp://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pangomm08:49
slangasekstrange that this isn't in the archive before now, neh?08:50
NCommanderslangasek, it was split from gtkmm on the last release08:50
slangasekah08:50
NCommanderIt actually had quite a few bugs that needed to be fixed08:50
NCommander(there are about three bugzilla bugs open about the issues with pangomm's configure scripts)08:50
* NCommander starts writing a MIR08:50
LucidFoxNCommander> Why does my last comment get duplicated every time I refresh the page?08:50
NCommanderLucidFox, old bug that resurfaced when RainCT changed the templating engine I think08:51
slangasekNCommander: an MIR for... pangomm?08:54
slangasekhopefully the MIR comment was about an unrelated package :)08:54
NCommanderslangasek, no, its for pangomm, it was split from gtkmm, and now new versions of gtkmm and glibmm require it08:55
LucidFoxhttp://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tvbrowser <-- "Other Uploads: *** Error: The encoding for this string is wrong. ***"08:55
LucidFoxDoes REVU has a BTS? :)08:55
NCommanderLucidFox, it's a bug in mako, I need RainCT to run it down, I'm not sure what's causing it08:55
NCommanderLucidFox, revu LP project08:55
slangasekNCommander: and neither gtkmm nor glibmm are in main08:55
slangasekso I fail to see why you would be MIRing it08:56
LucidFoxlol08:56
NCommanderslangasek, er ...08:56
* NCommander fails08:56
NCommanderFor some reason I thought they were08:56
NCommanderWell, a good thing you saved me work slangasek08:56
LucidFoxThere should be a quote database for this channel08:57
slangasek:-)08:57
NCommanderLucidFox, what would you like to quote?08:57
NCommander(and I have a spare machine that could become an #ubuntu quote db)08:57
LucidFoxFor example, what you and slangasek just said :)08:57
ion_“:-)”08:59
NCommanderFor some reason, when I think of creating an ubuntu quote db, I feel like we would be categorizing our stupidity for future generations to use and take reference to09:00
NCommanderIt feels a very russian thing to do.09:00
LucidFoxlol09:00
ion_.addquote <NCommander> For some reason, when I think of...09:00
LucidFoxWell, I already have this: http://qdb.lucidfox.org/quotes09:01
LucidFoxit's for #wookieepedia, though09:01
slangasekNCommander: why do you have yourself listed as XSBC-Original-Maintainer?  In what sense is this true?09:01
NCommanderThe problem with categorizing and recording stupidity is that it would lead to emulation09:02
slangasek(that field is, TTBOMK, meant to be used for packages merged from other repositories)09:02
NCommanderslangasek, if thats the case, I need to patch every package that went into the archive via REVU since your the first to say that09:02
slangasekhmm :)09:03
NCommander(I was under the impression that if you are the person who packaged it (ubuntu0), then you put yourself there until the package is synced from Debian)09:03
LucidFoxAll packages that are -XubuntuY have this field09:03
LucidFoxand Lintian complains if they don't09:03
slangasekah, so it's because of a lintian bug, ok ;)09:03
NCommanderLucidFox, unless its an @ubuntu.com address09:03
slangaseklintian shouldn't complain about the absence of an XSBC-Orig-Maintainer field, because there are packages which legitimately don't have an orig-maintainer09:04
NCommanderslangasek, I personally think the Debian Maintainer policy should be waved for Ubuntu specific packages, OR packages where the Debian maintainer wants to recieve bug reports09:04
NCommander(via that mechanism)09:04
slangasekwell, I think Ubuntu-specific packages are already adequately addressed under the official policy (whereas lintian sounds like it's being overly complainy), and I don't think the latter warrants waiving the rule on using an ubuntu.com maintainer field09:06
Shish_hi , i was told to come here for my question regarding emesene?09:06
Shish_am i in the right place?09:06
slangasekthat might depend on what your question is09:07
* ion_ blows the dust off his crystal ball.09:07
NCommanderslangasek, it's also dpkg-source that bitchs09:07
LucidFoxNCommander> When I log in to REVU from the main page, it redirects me to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/index.p09:07
NCommander(it used to error out in older versions vs just warn)09:07
Shish_tryin to update to 1.0.1 -- cant see my contact list, and heard that was the fix... but i have no idea on how to upgrade, and/or what to do09:08
NCommanderLucidFox, That's because that's how the revu configuration file was setup, I don't have permission to change that09:08
* NCommander waits for the slangasek seal of approval, or the hammer of needs-work-ness09:09
Shish_so i guess my question is how do i go abouts upgrading my emesene, so i can see my contact list?09:10
NCommanderShish_, are you running Hardy or Intrepid?09:10
Shish_NCommander: hardy09:10
* NCommander looks to see what versions are released for each release09:10
SWATI've submitted 2 new packeges to revu (freeorion and libgigi) and am waiting for comments/advocates. These packages aren't in Debian yet. Is the cooperation with Debian good enough that these also will be added to the Debian repos?09:11
slangasekNCommander: s/Originall/Originally/ in the package description :)09:11
slangasekI don't care about spelling in patch names, but descs should be spelled write ;-)09:11
NCommanderShish_, it appears that emesene is only getting updates in intrepid09:11
slangasekNCommander: and s/convient/convenient/09:12
slangaseklintian needs aspell09:12
slangasekor ispell, or whatever the new hotness is09:12
Shish_NCommander: hmmm...   i didnt know intrepid was already out...?  soo, do i get intrepid, or just use amsn instead?09:12
slangasekNCommander: s/internationization/internationalization/ :)09:12
NCommanderI just need to learn how to spell09:12
Shish_NCommander: or any suggestions on an messenger like client09:13
* NCommander hates being cursed with a spelling impairment09:13
NCommanderShish_, intrepid isn't out09:13
slangasekShish_: the latest version of emesene in intrepid is 1.0-dist, and intrepid is not a released version of Ubuntu; it's possible that whoever sent you here intended that you ask the Ubuntu developers to package a new version, but that doesn't seem like a good solution for you in the short term09:13
NCommanderShish_, its not been backported to Hardy09:13
slangasekNCommander: s/devlopment/development/ (see, lintian needs ispell support so it can do this job for me ;P)09:14
LucidFoxShould .desktop files specify the full path to the executable?09:14
LucidFoxe.g. /usr/bin/foo09:14
NCommanderLucidFox, where was the other typo?09:14
Shish_slangasek: hmmm... i agree with you there... any ideas on what a good short term solution is then?09:14
LucidFoxNCommander> Other typo?09:14
NCommanderShish_, grab the source package and build it09:14
LucidFoxI found only one09:14
slangasekShish_: I had never heard of emesene before you joined the channel, so... not really09:15
NCommanderLucidFox, yeah, where was it09:15
LucidFox"consistant"09:15
Shish_NCommander: k, i should have said that im totally new to all of this.... no idea what that meant... lol, sorry!09:15
Shish_slangasek: k, thank you tho09:15
slangasekNCommander: why do you have a debian/control.in that's identical to debian/control?09:16
NCommanderslangasek, I only have control.in in the first place to make it uniform with every other package in the Debian GNOME packaging repo09:17
slangasekNCommander: hrm, but the other packages in that repo have it because substitutions are performed on the file to generate debian/control :)09:17
slangasekNCommander: and your control.in is missing the relevant wildcard :)09:17
NCommanderslangasek, they seem to have it regardless if its required or not -_-;09:18
NCommanderI can scratch it without loosing much sleep though09:18
NCommander(if someone complains, its not much effort to readd it)09:18
NCommanderslangasek, actually, the GNOME support scripts require it09:19
NCommandersince it does a GNOME_TEAM replacement on control.in09:19
NCommander(which once this goes into Debian it will get)09:19
slangasekok09:19
Shish_well thanks guys, i think im gonna try and install amsn instead -- appreaciate the time and patience..thank you again!09:19
NCommanderShish_, wish we could do more to help. I personally use pidgin with MSN, but it may not work for your needs09:20
Shish_NCommander: cool, thanks a lot09:20
* NCommander swears09:20
slangasekNCommander: I object to simple-patchsys because it's opaque to debdiff reviews, but I'll not let that keep me from giving approval :)09:22
NCommanderslangasek, again, trying to keep uniform with the rest of the desktop team packages09:23
NCommander(I use dpatch on everything else, and quilt can burn as far as I am concerned; very few packages need that complexity)09:23
slangasekheh09:23
NCommanderThe only packages I can think off hand that really need quilt are GCC and glibc09:23
slangasekphp5, samba, openldap, pam09:24
NCommander^that I've worked on09:24
slangasekneither gcc nor glibc uses quilt anyway, they use much worse patchsystems :P09:24
* NCommander thought they used quilt09:24
slangasekno09:24
NCommanderI stopped trying to directly patch GCC's packaging and submit debdiffs09:24
NCommanderNow they just get plain packages09:24
slangasekmaybe that's why you have an oddly bad impression of quilt :)09:24
NCommanderSOmeone else can deal with braindeadness09:24
NCommanderNo, I loath using quilt for fixing FTBFS fixes09:25
NCommanderI didn't get into touching GCC until later in my hurd porting carrier when I fixed profiling09:25
* NCommander has two patches in GCC in Debian. One to fix gnu99 mode on m68k, and another to fix profiling on hurd09:26
slangasekwhy does pangomm build-depend on chrpath?  it's not mentioned anywhere in debian/rules09:26
NCommanderslangasek, oh, argh, that was from an older version of the rules09:26
NCommanderThere was concern in gtkmm about an rpath slipping in09:26
slangasekok09:27
NCommanderI had their rule using chrpath in there until I determined the bug was fixed09:27
slangasekdo you need me to record this feedback in REVU, or is here sufficient?09:27
NCommanderI removed it from the rules, forgot to remove it from the package09:27
NCommanderslangasek, well, I could technically fake your advocation vote since I'm a REVU admin, but that would be unethetical, so yeah, a comment would be needed once I upload an updated package :-P09:28
slangasekheh09:28
NCommanderTrust me09:28
slangasekI meant, do you need me to repeat my spell checking etc. comments on the website :)09:28
NCommanderFighting the urge to advocate my own packages is a pain09:28
NCommanderMaybe someday I'll be an MOTU09:28
NCommanderOh, no09:28
NCommanderJust "We fixed it on IRC, +1)09:28
NCommanderActually, its got two advocations09:28
NCommanderYou can upload if you feel up to the task09:29
NCommanderwow, lot of new MOTUs09:29
slangaseksorry, it's too mild of an archive change for me to upload it at this time of night, I only upload crazy stuff this late ;)09:30
RAOFWell, contributors.09:30
NCommanderslangasek, so you enjoy playing with dak/soyuz on a lack of caffiene?09:30
NCommanderRAOF, care to upload?09:30
slangasekoh no, I always have caffeine09:31
NCommanderheh09:31
NCommandercaffine is awesome09:31
RAOFNCommander: I'm about to mess around with some GNOME Do PPA packages, but I'll see what ya got.09:32
NCommanderRAOF, no, it already has two advocations09:32
NCommanderIt just needs an actual upload09:32
NCommanderunless you want to make it +309:32
RAOFWhy didn't the second advocate upload?09:32
NCommander<slangasek> sorry, it's too mild of an archive change for me to upload it at this time of night, I only upload crazy stuff this late ;)09:33
RAOFNCommander: Want to package the Google Data Sharp libs for me?09:33
RAOF:)09:33
NCommanderIT BURNS09:33
RAOFDidn't think so.09:33
NCommanderRAOF, only if you say yes to me being an MOTU when the time comes09:33
NCommander;-)09:34
RAOFI don't think I'd have much of a problem there.  In a little while, though, I think.09:34
* NCommander wonders how many braincells will go packaging a C# package09:35
slangasekNCommander: is it deliberate that you're creating a /usr/share/doc/pangomm-1.4 directory that doesn't correspond to a binary package?09:35
NCommanderRUnning down mono bugs already fried my head09:35
NCommandersladen, it should be renamed via dh_install (in the doc install rule)09:35
NCommanderOne of the new features of dh709:35
slangasekNCommander: not sure what you think should be renaming it, but I'm looking at the actual binary package produced; I have a libpangomm-1.4-dev package that contains both /usr/share/doc/pangomm-1.4 and /usr/share/doc/libpangomm-1.4-dev09:36
NCommanderWow O_O;09:36
NCommanderthat shouldn't be happening09:36
NCommanderer wait09:37
NCommander...09:37
NCommanderYeah it should, but it shouldn't be leaving the old folder behind09:37
NCommanderor ...09:37
* NCommander feels his head hurt09:37
NCommanderthe pangomm-1.4 folder is empty, right?09:37
slangasekno, it contains the docs09:38
NCommanderI think I'm doing something stupid09:38
NCommanderhold on09:38
NCommanderYup09:38
NCommanderIt's confirmed09:38
NCommanderThe packager is an idiot :-)09:38
slangasekoh, well, then you already know more about where the bug is than I do ;)09:39
NCommanderHrm09:39
NCommanderthe libpangomm-1.4-dev package is created by the deb installation09:40
NCommanderOk09:41
NCommanderI think I see what's going wrong here :-)09:41
slangasek"something totally non-apparent, yay cdbs"09:43
NCommandersladen, I had a usr/share in the .install, and then the subdirectories in -doc.install09:43
NCommanderSo the doc package would end up empty, and everything would be in dev09:44
slangasekoh09:44
NCommanderYeah -_-;09:44
slangasekmy question was why the dir name doesn't correspond to a binary package name, really09:44
NCommanderGreat moment of brilliance there09:44
NCommanderslangasek, that's how gtkmm does it09:44
slangasekgreat, let's file a bug on gtkmm :)09:45
slangasek./usr/share/doc/pangomm-2.4 -> libpangomm-2.4-doc09:45
* NCommander falls over09:45
slangasekthat also looks wrong in the doc package09:45
* NCommander figures out where he shove a mv in cdbs to move the files in the right location09:45
NCommanderI already had enough fun fixing automake scripts, this is going to fall in the dirty fix category09:45
NCommanderslangasek, ok, I got it fixed09:51
slangaseknew upload to REVU coming, then?09:52
NCommanderslangasek, yeah09:52
NCommanderslangasek, it builds fast in pbuilder here ;-)09:53
NCommandersladen, ok, its uploaded, so it should appear within the next five to ten minutes09:54
NCommanderand NOW norsetto comes back to life? (with a list of 16 questions)09:56
* NCommander sighs09:57
NCommanderI think its time to go to bed, and deal with this braindamage in the morning09:57
stefanlsdI think i need a mentor09:57
NCommanderI think I need a. life b. sleep. c. my LP account added to MOTU ;-)09:58
stefanlsdi take d09:58
stefanlsdnone of the above09:58
stefanlsdhow critical are gcc warnings when pbuilder runs.  ie. do they not include it - or does it all depend on the warning?09:59
NCommanderstefanlsd, I'll glance at them to see if there is something like (this will cause program to crash, etc.), but otherwise, I don't go out of my way to fix it10:00
* NCommander steals the lsd from stefanlsd 10:00
NCommanderThis is a drug-free zone :-P10:00
NCommanderand now I know I'm too tired10:00
NCommanderso10:00
stefanlsdmm. lsd will keep you up for another good 12 hours10:01
LimCoreplus, you can then contribute to HURD10:01
NCommanderLimCore, I have CVS commit access to hurd10:02
* NCommander lobs a Hurd bomb at slangasek 10:03
* NCommander figures if he can convert an archive admin, he can get ubuntu-hurd off the ground10:04
stefanlsdi just built a whole package and realised i should of merged from debian first10:04
NCommanderstefanlsd, I've done worse10:04
NCommanderI repackaged something that was already in the archive10:04
stefanlsdhehe. yeah10:04
* stefanlsd goes to read the wiki on merging. sigh.10:05
NCommanderI'll return10:05
stefanlsdI am doing this right right -   debian has a new revision of the package im working with.  So first i merge that.   Then i update the merged version with the upstream?     or should i just go from our current version to new upstream.10:06
stefanlsddebian has fixed some bugs thou that arnt fixed upstream that we will have to refix if we dont merge10:06
slytherinstefanlsd: A merge is adviced. Upstream update can happen anytime before feature freeze. By the way, check - http://merges.ubuntu.com/10:07
stefanlsdslytherin: thanks. will try10:09
lagawhat is a "universe contributor"?10:23
Laneylaga: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev10:24
stefanlsdWhat would be the process i should be following if the merge isnt in MoM or DaD - and I need to merge the files manually from debian. I have the deb   dsc and the ubuntu older version dsc...10:25
slytherinlaga: in simple words, one who has helped substantially with packaging tasks.10:25
slytherinstefanlsd: which package are you referring to?10:25
stefanlsdslytherin: im looking at diald.10:25
lagathanks.10:26
stefanlsdslytherin: there was a bug open for a sync request with debian (which i said i'd do) - but was told the maintainters do syncs. not us.  So i thought i'd update it to version 1.0 with upstream..10:26
stefanlsdslytherin: so it really needs a sync and then an upstream update..10:27
dholbachLaney: that reminds me.... you didn't apply yet :)10:27
Laneydholbach: ;) I am considering it10:27
Laneybut I have the same concerns as james_w in that I don't have any particular sponsors10:27
slytherinstefanlsd: a sync needs to be confirmed by a MOTU, assuming the package is in universe. Also there should be roer reasoning in the bug why ubuntu changes should be dropped, if there were any.10:28
dholbachLaney: feel free to CC me as your sponsor - I reviewed quite some of your review requests10:28
james_wLaney: I think you should, but I see the problem.10:28
DktrKranzhey dholbach, welcome back :)10:29
gesergood morning *10:29
stefanlsdslytherin: mm. ok. so in this case of diald - what exactly should i be doing...10:29
dholbachhi DktrKranz :)10:29
dholbachhey geser10:29
geserHi dholbach10:29
slytherinstefanlsd: can you point me to sync bug?10:29
stefanlsdslytherin: i wanted to add a watch file to diald (thats how i even started looking at it...)10:29
Laneydholbach: Thanks :) I will apply in the next days then! A nudge is what I needed10:30
* dholbach hugs Laney10:30
stefanlsdslytherin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/diald/+bug/25367510:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 253675 in diald "Please sync diald 0.99.4-9 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Low,In progress]10:31
Laneystefanlsd: If it's been orphaned in Debian, maybe you could do the update there?10:32
stefanlsdLaney: How would i know if its been orphaned?  Its in sid...10:33
Laneystefanlsd: http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/diald.html10:33
Iuliandholbach: Hey, would you like to ack 253732 too please?10:33
dholbachbug 25373210:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 253732 in gcc-avr "Please sync gcc-avr 1:4.3.0-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25373210:34
* Hobbsee notes that dholbach is definetly back and working10:34
Laneydholbach: Hope you had a nice holiday, btw10:34
dholbachLaney: it was absolutely fantastic - I just have so much stuff to catch up with that I didn't have the time to blog about it yet10:35
dholbacheverybody has been nudging me to upload pictures (hello james_w!)10:35
stefanlsdLaney: It says it has been orphaned with no maintainer, but last update was 2008-07-24.  I have no real personal interest in diald - but there is an upstream 1.0 i've managed to compile successfully - but i also dont really know how many people are interested in it...10:35
Laneystefanlsd: Well if you're going to update to 1.0 anyway, you might as well do it in Debian.10:36
LaneyThen more people will benefit from it10:36
james_wDebian is frozen though10:36
Laneysid can still take updates though, right?10:36
james_wyou may have difficulty getting it in, unless you can show that it fixes some important bugs10:36
IulianAnd hopefully someone will have a look at 1.0 and adopt it.10:37
LaneyI thought it was just lenny10:37
stefanlsdjames_w: naa. its kinda an old piece of software thou. last upstream was 2001 and have to patch a whole bunch of depricated stuff just to get it to compile.10:37
james_wLaney: yes, it can, but it's preferred not to as it makes it harder to get a targeted bugfix in10:37
LaneyAh10:37
LaneyWell there's always uploading to experimental anyway10:37
james_wLaney: I think anyway, I may be wrong10:37
james_wLaney: yep, that's a possibility10:38
james_wstefanlsd: you could email the Debian QA team to ask what to do10:39
LaneyWoah, the outstanding bugs on diald are pretty old10:39
Laneystefanlsd: If your update fixes any of those then you might have a case for getting it into lenny if you move fast10:39
LaneyDebian QA will be able to give you better advice anyway :)10:39
* Laney -> shower10:39
slytherinstefanlsd: I can't really advice about diald.10:41
slytherindholbach: next time you come to India, make sure you come to southern part. :-)10:41
dholbachslytherin: noted :)10:42
stefanlsdslytherin: heh. yeah. bit at a loss on what the right thing to do is...    - would be cool if we could see stats - like how many people are using it so we could see if its even worth keeping..10:42
slytherindholbach: I was wondering what all would be needed to propose India as UDS destination?10:43
dholbachslytherin: good question - what about a PR campaign on planet Ubuntu and make Mark aware of it? :-)10:44
slytherindholbach: :-D10:44
joaopintoCould someone review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ? Thanks10:45
slytherindholbach: Well only suitable for UDS in India is around October. So we have to wait one year.10:46
dholbachslytherin: that'd depend on which part of India - which would you propose?10:47
slytherindholbach: Most of the people would propose one of the Delhi, Bangalore, Mumbai. In any case summer here around March is too hot for outsiders.10:49
dholbachso April: Berlin, October: India - you have my vote! :)10:50
Hobbseenow that does sound tempting...10:50
slytherin:-)10:51
Laneystefanlsd: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=diald10:51
LaneySo you'd be making at least some people happy ;)10:51
dholbachI'm just not sure though I have a vote there :)10:52
stefanlsdLaney: hey wow. didnt know that existed... does ubuntu have something similair?10:52
Laneystefanlsd: Yeah, ubuntu has popcon too10:52
Laneyhttp://popcon.ubuntu.com/10:52
LaneyI don't see how to get a graph of a single package like that though10:53
Hobbseeand ubuntu does'nt turn on popcon by default, either10:53
LaneyDoes Debian?10:54
slytheringeser: any idea about this error? http://paste.ubuntu.com/33316/ some problem with openjdk10:54
geserslytherin: no, perhaps doko has an idea10:55
bobbothanks dholbach :)11:08
IulianCongrats bobbo ;)11:12
* warp10 hugs bobbo11:13
dholbachLaney: done11:13
* dholbach hugs bobbo - it was well-deserved :)11:13
jpdscongrats bobbo!11:13
dholbachoops... Iulian: done :)11:13
warp10hey dholbach, welcome back! :)11:13
dholbachhey warp10 - thanks11:13
Iuliandholbach: Danke11:14
* dholbach goes back to triaging his inbox11:14
=== nikolas__ is now known as nikolas
Laneydholbach: What is? :O11:17
IulianLaney: That was for me.11:18
Laneyaha11:18
dholbachexcusez-moi11:18
txwikingerpersia: I have fixed the dependency problems in ichthux11:32
joaopintojanito@ubuntu:/home/schroot$ schroot -c intrepid.i38611:34
joaopintoE: boost::filesystem::create_directory11:34
joaopintoany idea on this error ?11:34
joaopintoI did a plain debootstrap and thent created a tar from it for the schroot11:34
joaopinto(I am using intrepid amd64)11:35
dholbachvorian: your interview is online :)11:35
joaopintouff, another bug report11:44
persiatxwikinger: Excellent.  Thanks :)11:47
RAOFHm.  How would you write a watchfile to match http://foo/Google Data APIs SDK(1.2.1.0).zip?11:48
RAOFI'm off for dinner.  If anyone feels like hitting their head with uscan, please ping me with backscroll :)11:48
stefanlsdRAOF: 'http://foo/Google Data APIs SDK\(.*\).zip'  ?11:52
stefanlsdyou maybe wanna just \ the spaces also.  Google\ Data\ APIs\ SDK   ......11:54
txwikingerpersia: Should I make it available now, or can it wait until I have done some of the adjustments for KDE4?12:17
persiatxwikinger: Your choice.  I think it's best to strive for continual installability, but ichthux isn't the only broken flavour just now.12:18
txwikingerwell.. it is on my ppa now and it installs12:18
persiaIf you think it will take more than a couple weeks to migrate to KDE4, maybe upload now.  If you think you'll have time to get to it soon, maybe better to wait.12:18
txwikingerI would only have to take the ppa out of the version name12:19
RAOFstefanlsd: A reasonable guess, but that was my first try :)12:19
txwikingerpersia: I will see how much I get done in the next couple of days12:19
txwikingerbtw.. what architectures do we support now.. Was powerpc and sparc dropped?12:21
persiatxwikinger: I believe we support amd64, powerpc, i386, ia64, lpia, hppa, and sparc currently, although hppa seems to get less support than the others.12:22
txwikingerWell... somehow I could not get any powerpc and sparc from the repo12:23
txwikingeron intrepid12:23
wgrantThey're on ports.ubuntu.com12:23
txwikingerAh.. I have to try that12:24
RAOFstefanlsd: If you're interested, the correct answer is to url-escape everything.12:34
stefanlsdRAOF: can you post the correct url here...12:35
RAOFhttp://google-gdata.googlecode.com/files/Google%20Data%20APIs%20SDK%28(.*)%29.zip12:35
stefanlsdoh ok. cool12:36
LaneyAnyone know of a PPA (or other) build of epiphany-webkit?12:50
=== zwanzigcent_afk is now known as zwanzigcent
RAOFLaney: How about the one in Intrepid?12:52
LaneyRAOF: Hm, I thought that was still gecko. The epiphany-browser package in Intrepid is webkit, you say?12:53
james_wepiphany-webkit | 2.22.3-1ubuntu2 | intrepid/universe | amd64, i38612:55
* Laney attempts to bakport12:58
Laneybackport12:58
nxvldholbach: hi! how was india?12:58
dholbachnxvl: hey man! congratulations! good work on the video!!!12:58
sebnernxvl: congratulations :D12:58
* dholbach hugs nxvl12:59
dholbachnxvl: it was fantastic - I'll just need some more catching up with stuff before I post a blog entry with lots of pictures :)12:59
james_wcongratulations nxvl12:59
sebnerjames_w: to you too12:59
sebnerxD12:59
sebnerdholbach: soo many new members O_o12:59
james_wsebner: thanks12:59
voriannxvl, james_w, congrats :)13:00
sebnerbobbo: to you too ^^13:00
james_wthanks vorian, you too13:00
dholbachsebner: yeah, I was very pleased to see applications coming in13:00
dholbachI'm sure there are a lot of good candidates still out there13:00
bobbothanks sebner :)13:01
nxvldholbach: it's harder than it looks to make a video13:01
nxvldholbach: i needed to re-make it like 5 times13:01
nxvlthank you all!13:01
sebnerdholbach: btw, what has happened to the discussion about u-u-c on the ML? the one started a month ago?13:01
dholbachnxvl: I re-made the first one like 41 times13:01
nxvlyeah13:01
nxvlyou always make mistakes, even stupid ones, but miskatakes13:02
nxvlmistakes*13:02
dholbachnxvl: Jono was just great, until the end he managed to keep a straight face even if I got the text wrong for the umpteenth time :)13:02
dholbachsebner: can you give me a bit more context?13:03
sebnerdholbach: hmm don't remember either ^^ /me has to search the ML13:03
nxvlyeah13:04
sebnernxvl: what video? link :D13:04
nxvlmi girlfriend hited the record button and then go to play wii until she didn't hear any noice13:04
nxvlsebner: you will see13:04
sebnernxvl: ahh still secret :)13:05
nxvlsebner: "getting started" in spanish13:05
nxvlnope13:05
dholbachnxvl is a real hero13:05
nxvlnah13:05
dholbachhe stepped up and took the "More MOTU Videos" challenge13:05
sebnerdholbach: getting started in german? made by you of course :P13:05
nxvljust a developer with energy and some free time13:05
nxvl:D13:05
* dholbach hugs nxvl13:06
* nxvl HUGS dholbach back13:06
* sebner hugs the person who gives him the link to the new video13:06
dholbachnxvl: replied to your mail13:06
nxvldholbach: got it :D13:07
nxvlsebner: http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff/introduccion.ogg13:07
nxvlsebner: but it's in spanish13:07
* sebner hugs nxvl :P13:08
LaneyI should try to learn Spanish from my La Oreja de Van Gogh songs ;P13:09
sebnerlol13:09
nxvljuas!13:11
LaneyOK, webkit is quite an epic build. My poor CPU is now at 78C :<13:12
directhexLaney, she cannae take any more, cap'n! the core's gonnae breach!13:19
* Laney bails out13:20
Laney...it seems to be holding up alright, at 80 now13:20
* Laney needs better cooling13:20
stefanlsdmove to greenland13:21
Laneygood plan13:21
LaneyEngland just doesn't cut it for coldness any more13:22
lagai also need to upgrade cooling.. the stock intel cooler is quite loud in summer13:23
txwikingermove to the Antarktis13:23
directhexmoar fans!13:23
lagahum, i can probably tweak that in the BIOS13:23
lagadirecthex: ugh13:23
lagadirecthex: got 4 already, that's got to be enough13:24
affluxmorning. anyone from u-u-s for bug 106583? :)13:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 106583 in alltray "No windows hiding with compiz" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10658313:24
directhexi find myself vexed that AAC creation on linux blows goats13:28
mouzI uploaded touchfreeze to REVU about one hour ago. It does not appear in the list. There were no signs of things going wrong when I uploaded.13:32
wgrantmouz: You shouldn't be uploading a new upstream release to REVU.13:34
mouzhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess says I should?13:35
wgrantI believe that use of REVU in this situation is largely discouraged.13:36
wgrantUpload a .diff.gz instead.13:36
mouzattach to bug?13:36
* Laney nods13:37
mouzthanks13:37
azeemslangasek: FTR, NCommander doesn't really have that much to do with Hurd upstream13:37
azeemnor debian-hurd, for that matter13:44
stefanlsdanyone have an idea why i cant use virt-manager to create a new kvm vm.  It gets to the assign storage space screen and clicking forward doesnt do anything...13:56
stefanlsdlooks like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virt-manager/+bug/22174614:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221746 in virtinst "Assigning storage space fails if acceleration enabled" [High,Fix committed]14:02
ScottKstefanlsd: --> #ubuntu-server14:07
mouzwgrant: what is the reason to not use REVU for this (getting new upstream version packages reviewed)?14:15
emgentmoin14:15
wgrantmouz: Because that's not what REVU is for.14:16
wgrantBut I must now head to bed.14:16
=== Knightlust is now known as Igorot
persiamouz: The main issues are 1) someone needs to verify the upstream orig.tar.gz (which REVU doesn't do), 2) new upstreams only require 1 ACK, so the workflow is different (which was confusing), and 3) We needed to track a bug anyway to avoid collisions (there were several examples of this happening when REVU was accepted for new upstreams)14:25
bddebianHeya gang14:44
mouzpersia thanks. I updated 2 wiki pages for it.14:49
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
persiamouz: Thank you.  The wiki deeply appreciates the attention :)14:54
ScottKpersia: The only examples of collision I remember being involved in were with Launchpad bugs and someone not refreshing the page before uploading.14:58
ScottKI was discussing #1 with Ncommander the other day and I thin it's solvable.14:59
persiaScottK: Yes, but I remember you being involved in three of them :)14:59
ScottKthin/think14:59
persiaThere ought have been none, but having more than one way to do it, while handy for programming languages, isn't ideal for collaborative sponsorship.15:00
ScottKWe also have issues with collision when people don't look at the Launchpad bugs.15:00
persiaYes, which is part of why I advocate processes that involve looking at LP bugs.15:00
ScottKYou can't force that however.15:00
persiaUnfortunately :(15:01
ScottKI seriously appreciate REVUs capability to diff multple uploads of the same version.  I think it'd be useful for upgrades too.15:02
ScottKThe other thing that'd be nice to hav for upgrades is a diff of the diff.gz.15:03
persiaIndeed.  Maybe someone ought file some LP bugs about this.15:04
persiaI know there was discussion in Boston about a new model involving LP to do this, but it seems to have gotten lost, and the code review LP feature assumes bzr, which is good for most projects, but not so much for Ubuntu.15:05
ScottKPersonally I'd rather see it done on REVU where there's likely to be a design requiring fewer than 400 database queries to render on web page.15:05
=== Czessi__ is now known as Czessi
ScottKWhich fits in well with my estimation of Launchpad's development priority.15:06
persiaWell, maybe, but I'd want REVU to grow the ability to show other outstanding bugs: compare the list of closed bugs to the list of open bugs and wonder why others may not have been fixed.15:06
persiaThat might be a bit of a stretch for the current codebase.15:06
ScottKWhen I reviewed the Launchpad 3.0 specs my "No, please don't do this" list was longer than my, "Yes, this would be good" list.15:07
persiaMore generally, I don't really care where it lives, so long as people are checking bugs.  We have lots of bugs.  We should close them.15:07
persiaWell, that's the point of conversation: without interaction, those who don't know remain ignorant.15:07
ScottKpersia: Fortunately the new U/I seems to have reduced the number of bugs reporting (this is purely a subjective assessment based on my perception of my bugmail).15:08
persiaI'm not convinced that's a good thing.15:08
ScottKThis is an open project.  If Launchpad developers would like to learn how it works, there's nothing stopping them.15:08
persiaFurther, I'm not sure it is the UI: it might be that people aren't closing bugs, so reporters aren't learning that opening bugs fixes things.15:08
ScottKpersia: I was being sarcastic.  I agree.  I think the new U/I is seriously repelling people and stuff isn't getting reported.15:09
persiaI'm seeing more random workarounds being posted without associated bugs these days.15:09
=== RainCT is now known as RainCT_
ScottKPerhaps.15:10
ScottKI'm not sure of the cause.  I just see a lot less bugmail.15:10
persiaScottK: Well, maybe.  I'm not much of a UI person, so can't say for certain.  I find the new one confusing, but that may just be because it is different (I was typically confused by each change to the UI since the bugzilla import)15:10
ScottKUp until yesterday I idled in #launchpad since I became aware of it.15:11
ScottKIn that entire time I saw two people show up with positive comments.15:11
ScottKI didn't count the negatives, but it was a lot.15:11
persiaWell, part of that is that people prefer to complain about services (and praise other people).  Then again, there could be other factors.15:11
ScottKI did praise them for keeping the quality of the no CSS design.15:12
=== zwanzigcent_afk is now known as zwanzigcent
taconeScottK: forgive me being obvious, but.. it's summer. Could be just that the less bugmail reason, couldn't it ?16:12
=== gastoni is now known as gastoni_
=== gastoni_ is now known as gastoni
=== DrKranz is now known as DktrKranz
LutinIulian: would you please mind adding comments on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ when asking for syncs which fix RC bugs in debian ?17:24
ScottKtacone: It's only summer in half the world.  There are certainly a lot of possibilities.  I recognize it's hard to tell the actual reason(s)18:15
taconein the half which perhaps contains the most part of the community :-) I agree on the rest18:16
jbichadoes anyone know why http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKLabbXTqMc is not available?18:25
jbichaLearning MOTU Packaging Part 118:25
Laneyjbicha: Seems to work here18:26
Laneybut you can also get it at http://videos.ubuntu.com/motuvideos/18:26
jbichaok, thanks; on youtube, it says "We're sorry. This video is no longer available"18:27
sommertop18:51
sommerwoops18:52
LaneyAnyone know of a good example of a library packaged with cdbs? Or is this not done?19:03
james_wLaney: hey, nice work on bug 254181, I was just filing other bugs on that when I hit yours19:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 254181 in sysklogd "multiuser option to update-rc.d is deprecated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25418119:23
james_wI'd love it if you could forward the change to Debian, as I have been discussing this feature with Debian, and they want the patches now19:24
james_wwell, not forward that change, but forward the new diff to Debian to disable the stop links19:24
=== jmarsden is now known as Guest44158
stefanlsdIm still confused.  If there is an ubuntu bug to do an upgrade to a newer version of a package, and the older same version exists in debian, do we do the ubuntu build or the debian build?19:55
directhexstefanlsd, where possible, liase with the debian maintainer & prepare a new debian package20:03
directhexstefanlsd, only make a 0ubuntu1 package if you need to. note that debian is now in freeze for lenny, so you may need to20:03
stefanlsddirecthex: are they in freeze for sid stuff also?20:04
directhexstefanlsd, yes, that's how packages enter lenny - via sid20:04
directhexstefanlsd, BUT, some more active DDs may be happy to put new things in experimental20:05
stefanlsddirecthex: ok ok.20:05
stefanlsdDo you know exactly what this means and how i should deal with it - NOTICE: 'curlftpfs' packaging is maintained in the 'Svn' version control system at: svn://svn.debian.org/collab-maint/deb-maint/curlftpfs/trunk/20:05
stefanlsdI also see from the changelog - it says the package is orphaned and belongs to debian QA20:06
directhexit means all the "downstream" packging stuff (i.e. the debian/ folder) is stored in svn20:08
stefanlsddirecthex: kk. will see if i can find a debian doc on that20:11
jmarsdenstefanlsd: I think that if the package is orphaned (has no Debian maintainer), you'll most likely have to create a 0ubuntu1 to get your bug fixed!20:14
directhexyes, true20:14
directhexor you could get commit access to the collab-maint svn20:15
stefanlsdjmarsden: i had a look at the actual debian orphan bug and someone adopted it on the 7th march 2008.  There was a later request by a debian dev on the 29th jul asking if he had done the new release. So it seems like they would like it. I will post on the bug and offer assistance, failing a response i will build a -0ubuntu1.  I think it may close a couple of LP bugs that are open with it.20:17
jmarsdenstefanlsd: Sure.  If it has a new Debian maintainer, contact that maintainer by email too, maybe?20:18
stefanlsdjmarsden: cool. will do20:19
SUNWjoejaxxhaha20:26
=== RainCT_ is now known as RainCT
SUNWjoejaxxi forgot how to upload to revu20:26
SUNWjoejaxxhello rawler20:26
SUNWjoejaxxbah20:26
SUNWjoejaxxRainCT: *20:26
RainCTSUNWjoejaxx: dput revu ..._source.changes20:28
SUNWjoejaxxRainCT: yeah :) i just meant it has been a long time :P20:28
SUNWjoejaxxwi Run20:32
SUNWjoejaxxbah20:32
rawlerSUNWjoejaxx: hello.. (yes, late, I know)20:39
SUNWjoejaxx:)20:39
=== DreamThi1f is now known as DreamThief
SUNWjoejaxxwell that stinks21:03
SUNWjoejaxxthe software i was going to package is already in debian21:03
directhexdamn those debian people21:06
SUNWjoejaxxhaha21:08
ion_Reducing the work you have to do, how dare they?21:09
SUNWjoejaxxbah21:10
SUNWjoejaxxnot reducing21:10
SUNWjoejaxxincreasing21:10
SUNWjoejaxx;)21:10
SUNWjoejaxxnow i have to find another piece of software that i am interested in to package21:10
anirudh0hi...i have a warning whenever i try running python scripts...pastebin here http://pastebin.com/m7672065e21:43
anirudh0this happened recently...after i installed a python package from source..via python setup.py install..but this is about pytz, which is a std lib package..hence i was concerned21:44
anirudh0is this the right place to ask?21:45
smallfoot-please put Songbird, Flock or iFolder in repo21:50
jpdssmallfoot-: You are more than welcome to do it yourself.21:52
smallfoot-im a noob, i cant do nothing21:53
jpds!packguide | smallfoot-21:53
ubottusmallfoot-: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports21:53
smallfoot-i dont never understand nothing21:53
smallfoot-but its like reading a big book, and you need be smart for it21:53
smallfoot-im a dumbass21:53
jpdsTime to dig in and start a new adventure? :)21:54
smallfoot-too difficult and long21:54
jpdsAll good things take time.21:54
\shsmallfoot-: another mozilla big package of source crap in our archives without a functioning security community? (re: songbird)21:54
smallfoot-\sh, i have no idea21:55
Flannel\sh: songbird isn't mozilla21:55
\shFlannel: it was developed on the mozilla codebase..21:56
\shFlannel: I just mention "XUL" ;)21:56
Flannel\sh: it runs on XUL, sure, but I don't think its related to mozilla at all.21:57
afflux\sh: ni ni ni :)21:57
\shFlannel: it is..;)21:57
\shafflux: lol21:57
Flannel\sh: Got a link?21:57
smallfoot-you could probably learn programming in less time than it takes to learn how to make a package21:58
smallfoot-the wiki is overwhelming21:58
smallfoot-its like reading a book21:58
\shFlannel: I'm just searching for the history...right now, which can be easily found is: "Songbird is a media player built on top of Mozilla's XULRunner framework."21:58
\shhttp://wiki.songbirdnest.com/Developer/Developer_Intro21:58
Flannelsmallfoot-: That's because there's a lot to know.  It's not undoable though.21:58
\shsmallfoot-: that's wrong21:58
smallfoot-Flannel, it needs to be simpler21:59
Flannel\sh: Yeah, but using XUL and being created/associated with Mozilla are two different things.21:59
affluxthe about page reads: We give a thankful super-crazy double dag-nasty dirty-style squawk to the Mozilla Foundation, the VLC team, the SQLite dude and all the innovating free and open source software developers.21:59
\shFlannel: when songbird started, we didn't even have a common codebase for xulrunner these days...I think it was the time, when mozilla and firefox diverted totally...21:59
\shTypes of APIs for Extending Songbird22:00
crimsunok, pedantry aside, what \sh is attempting to say is that there doesn't seem to be an active presence here in #ubuntu-motu caring for security issues related to all the code.22:00
\sh"New functionality is generally implemented in extensions which are client-side installable add-ons.  Because we're built on Mozilla"22:00
Flannelafflux: because they use XUL.  Unless you're implying that they also have people who work with sqlite and vlc22:00
crimsunmeaning "it would be nice to have songbird in Ubuntu, but someone is going to have to step up and make sure the security issues are handled in the Ubuntu package"22:01
\shcrimsun: thx :) that was the real intention22:01
affluxFlannel: hehe, right. I actually didn't intend to say anything with that quote ;)22:01
smallfoot-how long does it take to make a package?22:01
\shbetween 5 minutes and >1week ,-)22:02
smallfoot-oh22:03
smallfoot-there are over 500 software that needs be packaged22:03
\shsmallfoot-: there is more :)22:03
crimsunyeah, many more than 500.22:03
smallfoot-ubuntu-motu should have a package marathon22:03
\shthis wouldn't help anyone22:03
crimsunthen fund one.22:03
smallfoot-im not bill gate22:04
crimsunyou don't have to be.22:04
\sha package == security, srus, people who are interested in those packages, a community who wants those software22:04
directhexdon't make a package you won't personally use.22:04
directhexdirecthex's rule #122:04
smallfoot-why not?22:04
crimsunsmallfoot-: remember, it's a /team/ effort.  You're not expected to know everything.22:04
directhexbecause if you won't use it, how can you say whether it's been done properly? where's the motivation to help fix problems, or track new versions?22:05
smallfoot-please make package Flock, Songbird, iFolder22:05
crimsunsmallfoot-: why not be(come) a catalyst?22:05
directhexthe mozilla team is huge. needing to track security updates for flock is a terrifying idea22:05
smallfoot-directhex, better old version than no version22:05
smallfoot-crimsun, i dont know what is22:06
crimsunsmallfoot-: what is what?22:06
smallfoot-crimsun, cataclyts22:06
\shmez made some packages these days for ifolder...it had issues regarding the license..afaik...I don't know how it is nowadays22:06
smallfoot-oh22:06
smallfoot-wikipedia says is gpl22:06
GreySimsmallfoot-: Have you looked at getdeb.net for any of those packages? (Dunno if linking websites like that is allowed or discouraged, so sorry if so.)22:06
crimsungetdeb is discouraged from within the confines of this channel.22:07
\shWIKIPEDIA IS NOT ALWAYS CORRECT, NEVER BE, AND NEVER WANTS TO BE CORRECT22:07
GreySimcrimsun: My apologies then, won't happen again.22:07
smallfoot-GreySim, no, but i want them in official repo22:07
directhexif it's on the internet, it's true!22:07
directhexjust look at boycottnovell.com!22:07
smallfoot-i think so22:07
crimsunGreySim: no need to apologise.  Just be aware of other developers' ... displeasure with that site.22:07
* directhex hides his unofficial repo behind a wooly mammoth22:08
GreySimFor what it's worth, I haven't had to use any of their packages in a release or two, and only a few PPA's for fast-moving projects.22:09
* \sh hunts directhex's mammoth and eats it ;)22:09
\shPPA...that reminds me, I have to write the release announcement of leonov ,-)22:09
directhexin my defence, my repo is done with assistance from the debian and ubuntu packagers of the apps i include, and i'm pretty responsive to bug reports22:09
directhexi should check my logs, i wonder how many people use it these days22:10
* \sh is harvesting youtube to get all kiss videos22:11
jpds\sh: Using clive?22:12
\shjpds: no...22:12
\shjpds: using amarok and a small script which sends "search requests" to youtube22:13
jpds\sh: Ah, okay.22:13
* \sh needs to write an addon to count the hits on most mentioned concert locations..like "Kiss Irvine CA 1996"22:14
* directhex is pleasantly surprised by Banshee 1.2 as a media player22:14
smallfoot-put frostwire in repo22:15
crimsunsmallfoot-: just a note:  it's likely more productive to file wishlist bug requests against 'Ubuntu' using bugs.launchpad.net22:16
smallfoot-it already exis22:16
smallfoot-flock been requested for over a eyar22:16
smallfoot-nothing is done22:16
smallfoot-frostwire been requsted loooong time ago, nothing happens22:16
crimsunsmallfoot-: have you considered helping packaging?  Asking here won't speed up the process.22:16
smallfoot-i cant help, im a noob, and you have to read a 100000 page guide, its thicker than the bible22:17
jpdssmallfoot-: So, look at the videos.22:17
\shbut the bible is totally wrong in things like packaging, really...no joke22:17
smallfoot-there are videos?22:17
smallfoot-at least bible have dragons and stuff22:17
crimsunyes, there are videos.22:18
smallfoot-oh22:18
\shon youtube actually22:18
\shjust search for ubuntu developer channel22:18
smallfoot-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6726522426109060914 oh that 56 minutes22:18
crimsunhttp://www.youtube.com/ubuntudevelopers22:18
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
jpdssmallfoot-: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Videos22:19
smallfoot-ok22:19
* NCommander fights with barry22:19
azeembddebian: ?22:20
azeemeh, bddebian?22:20
\shnow ways..22:21
\shbddebian never fights22:21
azeemdude, he's a marine22:21
james_wsmallfoot-: https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive22:21
\shazeem: so?22:21
james_wsmallfoot-: it looks like fta is working on it22:22
james_wsmallfoot-: you could join #ubuntu-mozillateam and see what you could do to help22:22
\shazeem: he's lazy, yes, but he doesn't fight ;)22:22
bddebianI'm a pushover :)22:22
bddebianHEY22:22
\shbddebian: sorrya..I'm a d*ck ,->22:22
=== Kopfgeldjaeger2 is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger
\shdamn..this release announcement gives me a headache22:23
\shbddebian: what do I need to do to make you writethis announcement?22:24
crimsun\sh: ping me if you need someone to proof it.22:24
\shcrimsun: the problem are not the facts..the problem is more the "intro"22:24
bddebian\sh: Give me a brain transplant? :)22:25
\shit needs to rock it needs to shock...22:25
crimsun"So you hate Web 2.0."22:25
\shbddebian: I think I'll have to force you to code python22:25
bddebianheh22:26
\shcrimsun: rock22:26
\shthat's something22:26
crimsun(yes, that's why we don't have ops here.)22:26
\shhmm?22:27
crimsunnothing related to the announcement ;)22:27
* jpds whistles.22:28
* ScottK-laptop wonders about context.22:28
\sh-ENOCONTEXTNEEDED22:28
ScottK-laptopOK.22:28
\shharhar22:29
\shcrimsun: really thx...I just got the right song22:29
crimsun\sh: anytime22:29
ScottK-laptopWell clearly I need to work harder on my bug work.  I've filed 22 launchpad bugs in 15 days.  That's ~1.5 per day.  Nowhere near 5.22:29
\shcrimsun: actually it was the very first song I decideded to use..but now I'm convinced22:30
\shcrimsun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=692DSE-M7Es <- this will be the intro ,-)22:35
directhexerm, wtf. i count almost six thousand unique IPs pulling down Packages.gz from my repository in the month of july22:37
SUNWjoejaxxdirecthex: haha lol22:37
SUNWjoejaxxi wonder how many people use me as a perl mirror22:38
directhexSUNWjoejaxx, that's for my own packaging though, not a mirror of anything22:38
\shdamn...I was just to enter "pkginstall SUNWjoejaxx"22:39
directhexwho uses solaris-based systems without apt? O_o22:40
\sh,-)22:41
SUNWjoejaxx\sh: rofl!22:43
* ScottK-laptop takes note of the state of his battery and shuts down ....22:45
=== Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as ktvbot
=== ktvbot is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger
emgentheya23:00
RoAkSoAxnxvl, congrats!!23:02
jmarsdenHow can I enable rebuilding manpages in a package that has a Makefile.in with a line such as   @ENABLE_REGENERATE_MAN_TRUE@README: pam_limits.8.xml limits.conf.5.xml    in it?23:08
nxvlRoAkSoAx: thanks23:08
jmarsdenI updated a .xml file, the manpages are not getting updated by default...23:09
* \sh goes to bed...23:11
jpdsg'nacht \sh23:11

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