[00:11] i'm still here... if anybody can help me! [00:52] hmmm. [00:52] seems like everybody's sleeping today :-) [00:54] hello? [01:15] just installed my backend using 8.04 alpha because i couldnt get the current one to start up [01:15] install was successful, but i wanted to manually set the ip address [01:16] it has 2 network cards, so i may have manually set the wrong one, im not sure [01:16] but now it wont let me change anything with the network anymore [01:18] hmm nevermind i rebooted and it lets me change stuff again [01:25] I have a normal SB Live sound card on my MythBuntu system that I settup two weeks ago. At first, the SB Live was playing all audio on its analog port and its spdif at the same time. If was perfect to listen music on my digital Pionner Amp. But at some point I rebooted the computer and the digital out is not working anymore. I never touched the sound configuration so I really don't know what is happening. [01:26] As someone ever seen this problem on the SB Live which is quite a common audio card? Any hint on where is the MythBuntu sound configuration? [01:28] I'm testing the Mythbuntu LiveCD, and I was wondering if anyone could help me determine which remote I have, or which would be close enough to use in the remote plugins thing. I have a Sony Vaio RM-MC1 remote, came with my Vaio for MCE. Is there a generic card I can use? [01:35] anyone seen a problem where you cant "unlock" networking in mythbuntu? [01:38] !MCEUSB2 [01:38] Sorry I don't know about MCEUSB2 [01:38] hmm [01:38] !remotes [01:38] Sorry I don't know about remotes [01:39] !MCEUSB2 | bobbob1016_ [01:39] bobbob1016_: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MCE_Remote [01:39] look there [01:41] TelnetManta, haven't seen it. Which version? [01:55] ok i was on a little bit ago, thought i had figured out my problem but i was wrong, how can i manualy configure my ip address on 8.4 alpha? [01:59] sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces [01:59] tgm4883_laptop: 804 [02:00] via cli [02:00] ok ill try that thank you [02:01] Zinn: I have this remote: http://www.replacementremotes.com/store/productdetailp.cfm?productid=5706 Not in the pictures on that link [02:03] ok how can i know which network card im pluged into? I have the same ip set for both cards but only have a network cable going to one of them [02:04] quick and easy method is to try enabling dhcp on both, then do an ifconfig to see which one has an ip address [02:04] leaving only 1 plugged in [02:04] ok, how do i edit that file for dhcp? [02:05] just change out out the word static and insert the word dhcp? [02:05] do i need to remove the addresses? or are they alright aslong as it says dhcp? [02:05] pretty much... comment out the address, netmask, etc... settings [02:05] comment with a # [02:06] ok, thanks, ill try that [02:07] ok do i need to restart anything? or will just saving the file automaticly change the settings? [02:08] sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart [02:08] ok thanks [02:12] ok i did that, firefox still cant find google.com [02:12] i know it worked when i installed, it downloaded the listings [02:14] can you ping google? or its ip 72.14.207.99? [02:14] just type ping 72.14.207.99 in the cl? [02:15] yup [02:16] when you did ifconfig did any of your nics show a ip given from your dhcp server? [02:16] if youre not sure try ifconfig | grep Bcast [02:16] network unreachable, ok ill try that [02:17] i typed that in and it just returned another prompt [02:18] try doing "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart" again [02:18] if it just gave you another prompt then you dont have an ip [02:20] still the same [02:28] am i going to have to reinstall all over again? [02:32] sorry, was talkin in another room... no need to reinstall, try this tutorial which has some pretty good info on it http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-ubuntu-linux-convert-dhcp-network-configuration-to-static-ip-configuration.html [02:33] ok thanks ill read up on it [02:43] ok i dont know what network id or broadcast are [02:49] ok i figured it out, it was leaving the line [02:49] auto eht0 [02:49] out of the file [02:49] um the line was [02:49] auto eth0 [02:49] and [02:49] auto eth1 [02:49] now its working, thanks [02:51] ok, now that thats working, how do i add rsa host key for that to my main desktop? [02:51] i just tried ssh and it said the rsa key had failed, im assuming because its a fresh install on an ip address it recognizes [02:55] can i just deleat known hosts and start fresh? [02:57] yes, you can delete known_hosts file from your machine [02:57] ok thanks [02:57] also, you do not have to put in the broadcast or anything like that, you just need address, netmask, and gateway for it to work correctly [02:58] ok, cool, yeah i just had those three and they are working fine, it was just the line before the configuration that was missing, thanks [02:58] im learning lots, thanks for your patience [03:00] no problem [03:06] ok next question, i just rebooted and it hung on startup, the bar went back and forth a couple of times and then stoped, and stayed there, i reset the computer and it did the same thing again [03:07] never mind, i lied, it just looked like it hung, its starting now [03:22] hello everyone i need to reconfigure mythtv-common but when i run sudo dpkg --configure mythtv-common that doesnt work [03:23] where do i find the password i need for my frontend? [03:42] !help [03:42] Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs. Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number]. [04:07] dwf_starband: the mysql password is in /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt [04:13] How do I add a folder I added in fstab to my Video Recordings menu? [04:16] you can change the dir in Utilities/Setup > Setup > Media Settings > Video Settings > General Settings [04:16] How can I add a folder to Mythbuntu that has media, and have it show up in my video option? I added the folder via NFS already, I can manually browse it, but I can't browse it throught the gui [04:18] you should be able to see it if you change the location of where the videos are stored (the settings that I just gave you) or create a symbolic link between the /var/lib/mythtv/videos folder and where you have your share [04:25] i installed the mythtv-front end package but i cant not access the db from my backend the backend is running mythbuntu and using the control center i enabled the mysql service [04:26] did you enter the mysql password from the backend on the frontend? [04:26] yes [04:26] and the ip address for the backend? [04:26] yup [04:26] have you checked the logs on both machines? [04:34] it says it cant find the backend === _Mazga is now known as Mazga [15:42] Hi! I0m considering building an HTPC that boots quickly (from a CF card). Because of this, "disk" space is an issue. How much space is needed for the install? Media storage will be provided via network. [15:45] bartmon: my mythbuntu install w/ full gnome and xfce environments takes up 3.3GB of space [15:46] bartmon, for just a frontend in the xfce env around a gig [15:46] my system is a full blown everything, desktop and backend/frontend [15:50] hello everyone [15:50] yo [15:51] Thanks, NTolerance and superm1. I'll probably go ahead with a 2GB card then. [15:52] bartmon, my only warning with a 2gb card is be conservative about what else you add to the install, and be sure to regularly clean out old kernels when you do updates and stuff [15:52] and cached apt archives etc [15:53] and make sure the database doesnt get too large... [15:53] 4GB shoudn't be a lot more expensive, tho [15:53] yeah, 4GB CF is cheap [15:53] I guess 4 GB would also mean future proofing stuff. [15:53] even 8GB is cheap [15:54] newegg sells 8GB CFs for $26 [15:55] now that's cheap [15:56] in my country (i'm european) the cheapest one is 35€ [15:56] and around 10 bucks for a cf to ide [15:56] have those ;) [15:56] ah ok [15:58] keep in mind the recomended ubuntu install partition is 7gb, so (like others have said) you will need to keep up on the system yourself [15:58] i guess xfce is the way to go + swap off [15:58] you could uninstall alot of stuff [15:58] i wish i could install mythbuntu without XFCE [15:59] you could install gnome [15:59] and uninstall xfce [15:59] yeah, *ubuntu comes with a lot of preinstalled apps. I guess archlinux is an option but that's just too frustrating [15:59] if the primairy purpose is a myth box xfce would be a good chice [16:00] you could do xubuntu comes with less stuff [16:00] i installed mythbuntu on top of regular ubuntu [16:00] but mythbuntu depends on xfce, i don't want apt complaining about it [16:01] Shadow__X: my myth box is beefy though, i don't care if gnome takes more resources [16:01] so then install away [16:01] lol [16:01] more RAM is really the only consideration, and 2GB is dirt cheap these days [16:02] 4gb is cheap [16:02] yeah [16:04] is mythbuntu x86_32 only? [16:05] i run 64bit [16:05] bartmon no its not [16:06] how do i get the mythtv plugin in totem on a regular ubuntu install [16:06] i gues a silly question from me. since all ubuntu flavours are also 64 bit maintaining a 64 bit mythpc package isn't a biggie :) [16:07] Shadow__X: apt://totem-plugins-extra [16:07] thanks [16:07] not many people like totem, but i think it's great [16:07] i like it [16:07] nothing beats the old media player classic interface [16:07] microsoft got that right back in win2k [16:07] that's basically what it is [16:08] with totem i can watch youtube videos if i need to but going to that site doesnt work well on this computer [16:08] gotta get totem-xine though, totem-gstreamer is no good [16:08] ah [16:08] funny thing is that you can have both installed at once, which is odd [16:08] i always remove totem-gstreamer [16:08] ah ok [16:09] only totem-xine can play dvds w/ menu support [16:09] ah alright [16:09] i find that vlc produces least load when compared to mplayer and totem-gstreamer. haven't tried totem-xine though [16:09] this laptop is 600 mhz i have to be selective :D [16:10] i have a serious love/hate relationship w/ vlc [16:10] it's codec support is great, but that's really all it's got [16:10] the interface is questionable, true [16:10] the interface is bad, i hate how it "minimizes" when you're not playing a video [16:10] yeah also watch a hd movie on it over the network [16:10] window should stay the same size instead of moving around [16:10] AND, it doesn't pause/resume properly, there's a lag delay [16:10] really annoying [16:11] mhm have you tried streaming a hd movie on it or streaming anything [16:11] what does mythbuntu use then? [16:11] that doesnt work out all that well [16:12] HD over wifi is a big nono [16:12] i use mplayer with the myth frontend [16:12] but totem-xine when i'm playing videos on the desktop [16:13] well wifi 802.11g only has 27 Mb/s so it's a stretch for HD [16:13] i have shitty wireless n stupid broadcom [16:13] BTW, 54Mb/s is the combined upstream and downstream bandwidth [16:13] another marketing trick [16:14] it's like saying regular ethernet is 200MB/s [16:14] how about wireless n bartmon [16:14] wireless FTL, i like having CAT5 all over my baseboards, makes a man feel good [16:14] can't go wrong w/ gigabit [16:14] lol i love Gb [16:14] Shadow__X: don't know, don't have any n equipment [16:15] network drives might as well be local drives over gigabit [16:15] so how do i setup the mythtv plugin in totem [16:15] you can max out your HDD write speeds [16:15] mhm [16:15] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4890719 [16:15] bartmon good luck getting anythign near 27 as well [16:16] real world 12-15 is good [16:16] so in fact almost 2MB/s. what are typical bitrates for HD? [16:17] anyone here ever done a restore from a failed mythtv install? [16:17] Shadow__X in theory n can do HD, but its still draft so you need to be careful about hardware [16:17] like when a HDD dies [16:17] NTolerance you should be able to just reinstall and restore the DB [16:17] right, i did it and it was awesome, i just wondered if anyone else had done it [16:17] my HDD was dying [16:17] jphillip, yeah but as a rule of thumb you stay away from broadcom which is what my laptop has for n i am going to get a intel n card [16:17] I've done it when switching hardware [16:18] i backed up the database and recordings dir, this was an ancient feisty/gutsy install [16:18] eh, broadcom has linux drivers [16:18] NTolerance: In those cases i always try a tool called SpinRite. Usually it improves the fitness of a drive so i can at least copy it to another destination [16:18] installed hardy and mythbuntu, copied over the recordings dir, restored database = WIN [16:18] stay with broadcom, atheros or intel [16:18] Shadow__X you need to use gconf to tell it where your server is at [16:19] intel has the best linux drivers for anything, video, wireless, chipset, etc.. [16:19] yeah i just saw that [16:19] jphillip, you think broadcom n is good? [16:20] broadcom on linux? surely you jest [16:20] not n [16:20] just broadcom in general has support [16:20] i have a Gigabit ethernet adapter from broadcom and it works great [16:20] my router has broadcom in it, which runs linux [16:20] broadcom wireless? *shiver* [16:21] I'm stuck on a 2.4 kernel though [16:21] yeah, because there's no driver for 2.6 AFAIK [16:21] ethernet != wireless [16:21] yeah i know OTHER stuff works but not broadcom n [16:21] g2g [16:21] sure it will work [16:21] laga I think there is one, but it segfaults [16:21] as in get a connection [16:21] but not work WELL [16:22] also asus uses broadcom and I have a mancrush on asus [16:22] in their routers at least [16:23] i like the look of asus routers havnt had one myself [16:23] I have 2 500gP's and I love them [16:23] shame that buffalo got sued [16:23] easily flashable, has usb for expansion and pretty cheap [16:24] buffalo w/ DD-WRT = quality [16:24] why did they get sued? [16:24] how much is a 500gp [16:24] linksys WRT54GL ain't bad either, you can flash to DD-WRT w/ the web gui [16:24] Shadow__X normal price is something like $80 some, but newegg has had them on sale downwards near $50-60 [16:25] http://www.fiercebroadbandwireless.com/story/buffalo-technology-halts-802-11a-g-sales-u-s/2007-11-01 [16:25] hmm nice i will have to look at that [16:25] I prefer openwrt, don't really like how dd-wrt is closed and sold out to buffalo [16:25] hmm [16:26] totem doesnt want to play the any of my recordings [16:26] you got all the gstreamer codecs? [16:27] saying totem could not play .mpg there is no input plugin to handle the location of this movie [16:27] can you play other MPEG-2 files? [16:28] uh i will try [16:33] NTolerance, yeah i can watch a previous recording from another computer that i mounted [16:34] Shadow__X, actually i've got something for you regarding broadcom N if you want to experiment [16:34] that should help [16:35] well i am not on that computer now but i would still like to hear it [16:35] Shadow__X: not sure at this point, i haven't set up the totem mythtv plugin =\ [16:35] Shadow__X, so there is a currently (proprietary) broadcom driver that has been put together [16:36] and is enabled currently (in 2.6.24-19) for hardware exclusively supported by the driver - broadcom g newer 4312 based hardware [16:36] in 2.6.24-20 there is a newer version [16:36] it should support all the older broadcom hardware [16:36] and multiple of the "N" adapters [16:37] so if you wanted to try it, i'll give you a quick overview of whats involved [16:37] hmm sure sounds good i hate windows lol [16:37] so you'll need to first figure out if your device is claimed by b43, b44, ssb, b43legacy, any of that [16:37] just check lsmod output [16:38] if any of those are listed, you'll need to create a blacklist file in /etc/modprobe.d to blacklist any of those that were listed [16:38] alright [16:38] then activate hardy-proposed [16:38] and do a dist-upgrade. you'll get a new kernel, new linux-ubuntu-modules, new linux-restricted-modules [16:38] the broadcom driver is in the new linux-restricted-modules [16:39] you should be able to reboot into the new kernel and have functional wireless if it turns out your card is supported. i've experimented with a handful of the older broadcom cards (that weren't supported before, but were only G), and it works wonderfully [16:39] I don't have any N cards that i've been able to test w/ however [16:40] speaking of kernel upgrades, i installed a special ethernet driver from a launchpad PPA [16:40] hmm alright well before the bcm43xx never worked so i used ndiswrapper [16:40] if i install a new kernel update will it break my ethernet? [16:40] it was a deb file i downloaded [16:40] Shadow__X, well you might have to deactiavte ndiswrapper for a little bit too while you experiment [16:40] i'm not sure how it will bode with all this in place [16:40] you need to make sure that "wl" is able to claim the device with nothing in the way [16:40] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+bug/212497 [16:41] superm1, yeah i know that both cant be on but i dont have linux currently on that machine [16:41] NTolerance, LBM shouldn't break anything. worst case scenario, you just uninstall it again [16:41] "shouldn't" :P [16:42] LBM? [16:42] linux-backports-modules [16:42] what that guy posted [16:42] ah [16:42] install it again or uninstall it again? [16:42] Shadow__X, well that makes this more complicated. you won't be able to test it unless you can do a full install at this point :) [16:42] lol i know and understand that [16:42] lol [16:42] also, install/uninstall what, the kernel update or the .deb driver i got [16:43] NTolerance, that deb you got. if things don't work out with it, you'll be able to just remove the package from apt [16:43] the deb works great, in fact it makes my ethernet work [16:43] the current kernel has a broken ethernet driver for my card [16:43] so i can install this deb on top of a new kernel [16:43] if i get a kernel update [16:44] seems like the deb is made for a certain kernel version, 2.6.24-19.17 [16:46] i didn't add the PPA to my sources.list, i just installed the deb [16:46] remove rush [16:46] asfdfs [16:46] wrong window [16:55] well using vlc the shows play [16:56] you need to have gstreamer fluendo mpeg2 demuxing plugin installed [16:58] NTolerance, yeah it is only for the -19 ABI. When you install -20, you need a new deb [16:58] really the best solution is to isolate the patch that solves the issue [16:58] and get the kernel guys to add it into the next kernel [16:59] thx, superm1 I will avoid kernel upgrades for now [16:59] is there anything i can do other than posting on launchpad reports? [16:59] i'm not a dev but i'm pretty good at testing things and reporting issues [17:00] well the smaller the patch the more likely they'll look at it. [17:00] i'm not sure what their preferable workflow is to be honest [17:01] what i've done should be enough, can't do much more than post in bug reports so they know what's going on [17:01] you can ask in#ubuntu-bugs [17:01] what the best thing to do to get their attention that a fix is available [17:59] Is there a big risk to diverting from default video / DVD settings? Such as .. playback options / menus .. etc? [18:00] I'm encountering difficulties with some DVD's and their backups not playing, spitting me back to menu, or crashing the mythfrontend entirely. But in most cases, I can play the iso from MPlayer directly ... [18:00] hmm are you sure your drive isnt dieing [18:00] happened to me before [18:00] brand new drive .. actually. And if I play in older PC's .. the DVD doesn't play at all .. [18:01] but was able to iso it to try it from file .. same result [18:01] got a good iso .. but file will crash the frontend [18:01] hmm [18:01] did you install all the codecs? [18:02] a real pain in the a$$ .. my WAF is riding high .. and this is starting to erode that. [18:02] lol [18:02] dont worry you will get it [18:02] yep .. all the codecs .. updated recently to be sure .. really only have the problem on a few specific discs .. which I had written off until I discoverd that MPlayer would play them the other day .. [18:02] make sure you can watch the dvd itself in the drive using mplayer or something like that [18:03] vlc or totem [18:03] so now I'm after a one size fits all config .. yeah .. it'll play in MPlayer .. [18:03] hmm [18:04] you can try using that in the mythtv settings [18:04] that should work then [18:04] i wouldnt know i couldnt test to much my current dvd drive is gone [18:04] the dvd lens is shot [18:04] it wont burn dvd's and it stopped reading cd's [18:05] my plan for tonight .. what happens with the mythtv "options" for playback then .. like root menu, subtitles, audio tracks .. etc? Is that all unaffected by the playback settings? [18:05] i am not sure [18:05] just take a screenshot of the original settings [18:06] sabhain: it is easy to change the default player in myth ... I have mplayer for anything but *.iso/img (because I want dvd-menus so I use the myth internal which is ok for me) ... only small problem is to make decent remote key configurations for the new external player (i spend many hours perfecting my mplayer remote keys) [18:06] xine does a good job with DVD menus, i used that back when i played DVDs in mythtv [18:07] now i use a PS3 [18:07] zabbadapp .. so the dvd-menus are only available w/ the internal menus .. I was afraid of that. When you play an iso .. myth picks it up as a DVD correctly? [18:07] NTolerance, do you have linux on your psr [18:07] ps3? [18:07] Shadow__X: thought about it, but it requires a HDD wipe and i didn't want to much around w/ backing up save files [18:08] sabhain: well, you can use xine or vlc, which both support dvd menus, if you want an alternative to the internal player [18:08] also, the PS3 only has 256MB of RAM so it makes for a pretty poor linux system [18:08] with my mythbox sitting right next to it i have the perfect computer for my HDTV anyways :D [18:08] i thought it was 256 cpu 256 gpu [18:08] and also it has a simple menu for wipping the hd and you can use external hds [18:08] GPU is locked down by the hypervisor anyways, linux can't use it [18:08] thats stupid [18:09] i want a super computer for cheap [18:09] zabbadapp .. thanks. Is it unusual for the internal DVD player to struggle with certain DVD's and not others? [18:09] yeah, it's to prevent devs from making free games that can use the GPU [18:09] another thing is that even yellow dog for the PS3 doesn't have much set up out of the box for the PS3, you gotta muck w/ wireless drivers and other PS3 hardware [18:09] not worth the effort [18:10] hmm but NTolerance if they ever open it up so you can run stuff on it [18:10] sabhain: and yes, iso:s are dvd images (usually) so myth treat them just like a dvd ... I did have problems with one dvd, and I could fool it by pressing the "root menu" key on my remote to jump past the troublesome part [18:10] the free games you can make on it would be freaking awesome [18:10] emulators too [18:10] lol, xfs really fragments files: [18:10] ino=201326725 [18:10] extents before:6701 after:1 DONE ino=201326725 [18:10] one day i hope there's a really polished PS3 distro that is really optimized, maybe with XFCE [18:11] with full access to the nvidia card [18:11] :D [18:11] sabhain: ... if I just let i play it would hang in the beginning ... but i find myths internal player to be a really good dvd-player over all .. supports custom zoom modes and has a decent deinterlacer [18:13] i usually get very poor dvd playback if any at all on ubuntu. Is this (somewhat) remedied in mythbuntu? [18:13] zabbadapp .. yep, I agree. I like the internal player a lot .. I wonder if your solution might work for me .. how do you get around the hang? [18:13] bartmon: what is the problem [18:14] zabbadapp .. did you just add a jump point to DVD root menu? can that be done? [18:14] sabhain: for me it was something in the very beginning, so jumping to a later section of the dvd as fast as possible when playback started avoided the problem area ... may not work for you [18:15] NTolerance, the ps3 has so much power and a good amount of people are trying to unleash it [18:15] sabhain: some of the myth-keys are dvd-control keys when in the internal player ... look at the key settings web page of your mythweb ... [18:16] zabbadapp: The UFS FS seems to mount but any player i try to play the movie with doesn't cooperate. sometimes i just get spinups and spidowns of the DVD, really strange. One such movie is the latest Bond, Casino Royale. [18:16] sabhain: (i find the web interface to be easier to configure than the key setup within mythfrontend) [18:16] zabbadapp .. this is the issue that I have when it happens .. right at the beginning of the disc. If I'm using the DVD itself, it just blanks out .. with an iso it hangs .. but we're talking immediately at the beginning. [18:16] It's made by Sony so that means some strange DRM on the disc [18:17] bartmon .. strange, I had no issues with that one .. Unbreakable is the one that's driving me nuts. [18:18] can you play any commercial dvds? (i.e. do you have decss) [18:19] just now... i tried Serenity and all i get in totem-gstreamer is Could not read from resource [18:22] i better go to #ubuntu, lol. no DVD wants to play :S [18:22] hmm [18:22] lol [18:24] i hate these legal restrictions you americans have - i'm european and don't care, lol :P [18:24] bartmon: hang on, im looking for a script [18:24] i got this https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html [18:25] bartmon https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs [18:25] bartmon, the more legal restrictions the more it encourages users to break those restrictions [18:25] Package libdvdcss2 is not available, but is referred to by another package. [18:25] This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or [18:25] is only available from another source [18:25] sorry for flood [18:26] my repos are misconfigured it would seem [18:26] medibuntu [18:26] bartmon: http://www.medibuntu.org/packages.php [18:26] i am pretty sure it was there [18:26] yes... i found some wiki pages about it [18:27] mhm [18:27] i am impressed with how mythtv fe handles sd over wireless on this slow laptop [18:29] definitely onto something here! :D [18:29] who [18:30] me :P [18:31] ah [18:31] thats good [18:42] If root is logged in to a machine using SSH, is the local user (the one actually sitting in front of that machine) able to shut down the box or not? [18:43] ie forcing root to drop connection [18:43] is FLV encoding for web-streaming working out of the box with mythbuntu 8.04? [18:44] sebrock if the sudo then yes [18:44] i've never seen an SSH connection that would prevent the local user from doing anything [18:44] local root > remote root ? [18:44] it should spam a warning into terminals [18:44] "warning this machine is going down for a reboot now!" or something like that [18:46] jphillip, not sudo, just the general "Shutdown" button in menu [18:46]