[00:17] <emma> I'm really excited about the GBJ!
[00:18] <emma> Our virtual loco is offering a prize to the member of our team that accomplishes the most :)
[00:18] <bdmurray> emma: wow, that's neat
[00:18] <emma> I think so!
[00:24] <emma> That's the nice thing about tracking individuals work. It lets us see who on our team will do the most.
[00:24] <emma> It makes it a friendly competition which hopefully will motivate people.
[00:25] <greg-g> emma: it worked for michigan when 5-a-day came out, one guy was trying to keep up with me :)
[00:25] <emma> That's awesome greg.
[00:26] <greg-g> yeah, and we'll use it for the GBJ, of course
[00:26] <bdmurray> What will be used to measure accomplishment?
[00:27] <emma> bdmurray: the auto-reporting thing.
[00:28] <bdmurray> hmmm
[00:29] <emma> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/club-ubuntu
[00:29] <emma> Our Virtual Loco is right here on Freenode in ##club-ubuntu and we are going to give $100 dollars to the member of our team who does the most.
[00:31] <nhandler> How are you going to decide who "did the most"? Are you going to base it on the number of bugs the person touches?
[00:31] <emma> Yes presumably that auto-reporting functionality of the 5-a-day thing can make it objective?
[00:32] <bdmurray> emma: its dependent on the honesty of the user, there is no verification done
[00:32] <nhandler> Well, what if you have some people on your team patching bugs, and others just triaging them? A patch takes more time and effort to prepare. As a result, they won't be able to touch as many packages as someone who is only triaging
[00:33] <emma> We are going to focus on triaging. You see we have quite a good resource of ubuntu users, and this might be an experience that gets more of them involved with the community.
[00:34] <emma> ##club-ubuntu is a socializing community of ubuntu users. But it's such a vibrant group and fairly large, so why not try to harness it for something good. And maybe some of the people who get started in the Bug Jam will learn how to do more complicated things with bugs?
[03:35] <jjesse> should probablly head to bed
[03:35] <jjesse> gotta get up in a copule of hours and feed the kid... talk to you all tomorrow
[03:35] <lifeless> bdmurray: http://infovore.org/archives/2008/02/06/demonstrating-snap/ - I'm thinking bug triage
[04:51] <sbeattie> lifeless: indeed. I was thinking of a vaguely similar interaction for bdmurray's bugs with no packages page: provide the description and a form box that lets you enter the package right there, which would make walking through the list much less painful.
[04:54] <persia> Having a wnpp package to help trim that would help.
[07:04] <philwyett> Anybody seen or addressing the virtualbox-ose-modules issue in the updates repo?
[07:05] <techno_freak> it appeared for me this morning
[07:05] <techno_freak> "package virtualbox-ose-modules is not going to be installed"
[07:05] <Hobbsee> philwyett: there's a particular guy who usually uploads that.
[07:05] <philwyett> Yes wants 2.6.24-20 kernel
[07:05] <Hobbsee> blueyed, iirc.
[07:05] <Hobbsee> poke him.
[07:06] <persia> Hobbsee: It's not the modules: they appeared on schedule, it's that the modules are in -updates ahead of the kernel (apparently)
[07:06] <Hobbsee> ah
[07:06] <philwyett> Yes
[07:10] <persia> Hrmm.  Looks like a schedule issue: the -20 kernel is available in -proposed, but not in -updates.  More generally, perhaps it indicates a need for testing each update when it is moved to -updates.
[07:11] <philwyett> Maybe something to look at.
[07:11] <philwyett> I can cheat and install the right modules pack and install the meta later.
[07:12] <philwyett> Not ideal but has to e done. :-)
[07:12] <philwyett> s/e/be
[07:13] <persia> Or pull the kernel from -proposed.  Still, it seems to be a procedural issue: someone was testing the proposed update against -proposed, but didn't confirm it worked against -updates when it was going to -updates.
[07:14] <persia> As it was prepared to be testing along with -20.37 of the kernel, and testing instructions would have indicated a need to test with the -proposed kernel, it just didn't block later.
[07:14] <philwyett> persia: I've seen the the LP chatter for that -20 kernel and will give installing it a miss for now. :-)
[07:14] <persia> Isn't -20.38 better than -20.37?
[07:15] <philwyett> Not sure the LP thread was long.
[07:15] <philwyett> I will pull it on a test box.
[07:15] <persia> Anyway, the issue isn't the specific kernel, it's finding the appropriate way to ensure that updates that depend on other updates aren't promoted in advance of their dependencies.
[07:16] <philwyett> Indeed
[07:18] <johnny_bits> hi all, this channel is for ppl picking up bugs?
[07:23] <Hobbsee> persia: that keeps happening, yes.  i think steve wanted to do something about it, but i'm not sure what ended up happening.
[07:31] <philwyett> It should be fairy straightforward to create an updates validation process. Someone really needs to work with who is doing it now and map the current process and work with them to improve it.
[07:32] <persia> !SRU
[07:32] <persia> Bah.  I like bots.
[07:33] <philwyett> :-)
[07:33] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates has the procedure.  At issue is that there isn't a facility to map dependencies anywhere.
[07:34] <persia> When the archive admins copy the packages from -proposed to -updates at the end, they do so based on reports of successful testing.  Given that they are already busy, and non-automated mechanism for this copy would break things.
[07:35] <persia> s/and/any/
[07:36] <sbeattie> right, there just needs to be a step in the copy process that checks the dependencies.
[07:36] <persia> sbeattie: Any ideas on how to check that without a local installation?  Presume that a local copy of the archive is available.
[07:38] <sbeattie> persia: I was going to look at using/extending edos-debcheck to see if I could make it do that.
[07:39] <persia> sbeattie: That sounds like an excellent plan :)
[07:39] <sbeattie> persia: we also have the problem that we have stuff that exists in the release that's tightly bound to a specific version of another package, which will conflict when that other package gets an update.
[07:40] <persia> sbeattie: Surely that should be represented in the declared dependencies, no?
[07:41] <sbeattie> yes. It's "just" a matter of checking them, in a reverse depends kind of way (I think)
[07:42] <persia> Heh.
[07:42] <philwyett> I have drifted through the doc via the link provided by persia and ended up here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html and even that is well out of date.
[07:42] <persia> That ought be accurate within a couple hours: it's automatically generated.
[07:42] <sbeattie> philwyett: eh? That's autogenerated every hour.
[07:43] <persia> philwyett: How is it out of date?
[07:43] <philwyett> Generated: 08/05/08 06:10:07 UTC by sru-report
[07:43] <persia> (also, should we be having this discussion on -quality?)
[07:43] <persia> It's 06:43 right now.
[07:43] <persia> So it's 33 minutes behind.
[07:43] <philwyett> Sorry my bad.
[07:43] <philwyett> Read it slightly backward
[07:44] <persia> Yeah.  Having months in the middle makes more sense, but it's not that way by default in most locales :)
[07:44] <philwyett> Yes :-)
[07:45] <philwyett> For docs I do YYYYMMDD always have.
[07:46] <sbeattie> anyway, I seem to be in short supply of round tuits, so if someone else would like to poke at edos-debcheck (or some other approach) before I get to it, I certainly wouldn't object.
[07:49] <persia> sbeattie: I've some square ones if those would help.
[13:05] <persia> !ping
[13:05] <persia> !ops could someone help onepointfive not join/part so frequently for a bit?
[13:05] <persia> !ops
[13:06] <e-jat> persia, u wanna someone to join part
[13:06] <e-jat> ?
[13:06] <persia> e-jat: No, I want less of it.
[13:06] <e-jat> owh
[13:06] <ogra> and miss all the entertainment it offers ?
[13:06] <ogra> :P
[13:07] <e-jat> :p
[13:07] <persia> See, it means either I have to flip here every 15 seconds, or miss who is actually present.
[13:07] <e-jat> owh
[13:08]  * Hobbsee glares
[13:09] <Hobbsee> for some reason, the forwarding doesn't want to work.
[13:10] <persia> Too bad.  The forwarding tends to also provide hints as to how to get back.
[14:02] <bddebian> Boo
[14:10] <ogra> bee
[14:13] <bddebian> :)
[16:40] <bdmurray> mvo: ping
[16:41] <dholbach> hey bdmurray
[16:41] <bdmurray> dholbach: heya, welcome back
[16:41] <dholbach> thank :-)
[16:42] <dholbach> s
[16:50] <mcas> hi
[17:41] <mcas> can someone please change bug 255019 to wishlist?
[17:49] <bdmurray_> I think it is determinable by a key press
[17:51] <mcas> bdmurray_: but it would be better if you can see it directly or is it a big problem to change this
[17:52] <afflux> bdmurray_, mcas: f1 shows it
[17:52] <bdmurray_> mcas: I'm not certain how hard it is to change
[17:53] <mcas> ok thanx afflux
[17:55] <mcas> how should this bug handled now?
[17:57] <bdmurray> you could bring it up in #ubuntu-installer
[17:58] <mcas> ok
[17:58] <mcas> thanks
[18:00] <mvo> hey bdmurray! you pinged me earlier?
[18:02] <bdmurray> mvo: yeah, I was looking at bug 221540 and thought it was interesting
[18:03] <sbeattie> bdmurray: another interesting refinement for your unlinked bugwatch page would be to find other bugs that refer to the same specific bug watch.
[18:03] <bdmurray> sbeattie: I think that functionality exists in the lp ui now
[18:04] <bdmurray> If you add a link to a bug in a different bts that is already being watched there'll be a message saying that bug X is also watching it
[18:04] <sbeattie> it does, but only when you go ahead and link the bug; e.g. 252686 only told me about 228460
[18:04] <sbeattie> right
[18:05] <bdmurray> is that insufficient?
[18:06] <sbeattie> was just thinking it might tell you that the bug is probably a dupe more quickly.
[21:32] <hggdh> bdmurray, ping
[21:33] <bdmurray> hggdh: pong
[21:38] <hggdh> bdmurray, nah, problems between keyboard and chair... I was looking for the dateconfirmed_filter under the wrong directory
[21:39] <hggdh> :-(
[21:39] <bdmurray> Okay, I hope I was clear enough
[21:39] <hggdh> you were... you just happened to hit a brickwall this side
[22:15] <scuzzola> am I correct in assuming there are no open bugs?
[22:21] <pwnguin> buh?
[22:21] <scuzzola> I found them
[22:21] <scuzzola> (:
[22:33] <mrooney> bdmurray, persia, james_w, et al: I am applying for Ubuntu membership so if you have anything nice to say, I would greatly appreciate it if you left any comments at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeRooney today or tomorrow :)
[22:33] <james_w> mrooney: is it time sensitive?
[22:34]  * persia locks the wiki page
[22:34] <james_w> you're not applying in this CC meeting right?
[22:34] <mrooney> james_w: the meeting is Thursday, is that...too late?
[22:34] <james_w> mrooney: no, I'm just busy at this minute, so I'll add something in an hour or so
[22:35] <mrooney> james_w: oh yes that's perfectly fine! :) I was just worried that you meant it was too late to be adding info
[22:35] <james_w> not at all
[22:38] <mrooney> seb128: I would include you in my wiki testimonial request as well but I feel like you do so much work you probably don't even have any specific memory of the bugs we have worked in together :)
[22:39] <seb128> mrooney: not specifically but I can look to my launchpad bugs box if required ;-)
[22:44] <mrooney> seb128: okay well if you happen to find a minute or two later then, it would be greatly appreciated! (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeRooney)
[22:44] <seb128> alright
[22:44] <mrooney> I think the second half of my triaging work is better, if you are looking by date :)
[22:44] <mrooney> the first 6 months was a lot of learning!
[23:35] <jthan> Evening. I have some questions about "getting involved"
[23:37] <jthan> What exactly is involved in bug fixing? I know a little bit about programming, but don't know if that's even important.
[23:38] <nhandler> jthan: This channel is more for bug triaging. You might have better luck in #ubuntu-motu for questions about fixing bugs
[23:38] <jthan> nhandler: thanks.
[23:38] <bdmurray> There is can be a difference between bug triaging and bug fixing
[23:39] <bdmurray> jthan: which particular team are you interested in getting involved with?
[23:39] <jthan> bdmurray: the bug squad. Joined on launchpad/the wiki.. But I use Ubuntu a lot I figure in my free time (which lately i have a lot of) i could help out somehow.
[23:40] <bdmurray> Well, you've come to the right place then!
[23:40] <jthan> bdmurray: oh. Well cool :-)
[23:41] <bdmurray> Helping with bugs can involve a variety of things from assigning a bug to the right package, getting more details from the reporter, improving a bug report, recreating a bug and even fixing bugs.
[23:41] <jthan> bdmurray: okay. Well put it this way. I'm 14, I have a busted up leg so I'm stuck at home most of the day. Where's a good place to start?
[23:42] <bdmurray> jthan: something that interests is good I think.  Is there a particular application you use a lot or like?
[23:44] <bdmurray> Alternatively there are lots of other entry points to working on bugs
[23:44] <jthan> bdmurray: Well the most that I use is OpenOffice, Pidgin, Xchat, etc. General everyday programs.
[23:45] <bdmurray> Lets just take OpenOffice.org as an example
[23:45] <jthan> bdmurray: very well.
[23:45] <bdmurray> You can find bugs about that application at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bugs
[23:46] <bdmurray> A lot of these are already Triaged as indicated by the Triaged state
[23:46] <jthan> bdmurray: right...
[23:46] <bdmurray> However, in the filters bit on the right hand side there is a filter for New lets check those out
[23:47] <jthan> bdmurray: so these 38 bugs are all new and haven't really even been checked out, up to this point.
[23:47] <bdmurray> jthan: that is the idea yes
[23:47] <jthan> bdmurray: I see.
[23:47] <bdmurray> lets look at the one at the bottom of the list since it is the newest
[23:48] <jthan> bdmurray: okay
[23:49] <bdmurray> I'm having a hard time making sense of the steps but we are in luck as this seems to have a test document
[23:49] <jthan> bdmurray: yeah the instructions aren't great.
[23:50] <jthan> I can't open it now, unfortunately.
[23:52] <bdmurray> okay, well I've opened the document and I'm not having an immediate problem with it
[23:53] <jthan> bdmurray: Are you on Kubuntu? Looks like that's where it was noted to have problems.
[23:53] <bdmurray> jthan: actually no, but I'd be surprised if it requires it
[23:54] <bdmurray> from what I can make of step 3 I think I am supposed to do something
[23:55] <jthan> bdmurray: It's hard to tell.
[23:56] <bdmurray> yeah!
[23:56] <bdmurray> I think I figured it out
[23:57] <jthan> bdmurray: w00t! lol. Explain?
[23:58] <bdmurray> 3. Select cells A5 to A3, starting with A5 and rename the range to something.  Then press enter 3 times which will move the selection box to a5 and openoffice will hang.
[23:58] <jthan> Oh.
[23:59] <bdmurray> So, I'll try it again just to be sure, then update the instructions and set the bug's status to confirmed
[23:59] <jthan> bdmurray: so even by confirming that these bugs are indeed broken, is a help?