/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/06/#ubuntu-website.txt

qensehello10:14
newz2000hello qense14:50
vadi2The wiki is dead... is that known?18:38
jpdsHe left, but the wiki was down for an upgrade, back up now.19:04
vbabiynewz2000: You around?21:42
newz2000vbabiy: hey21:42
vbabiynewz2000: how are you? Sorry I haven't been around much I been dead busy with work..21:42
newz2000I know how it goes... I'm good here.21:42
newz2000how are you? Hopefully recovered from the hustle and bustle21:43
vbabiyYeah, I want to start with a new design on of the feature tour21:43
newz2000oh, cool21:43
newz2000I have composed and had gerry review an email about the project21:44
vbabiywhich project?21:44
newz2000the feature tour21:44
newz2000no one else wanted to lead it21:44
newz2000do you?21:44
newz2000actually, let me step back...21:45
newz2000tell me what you were thinking... I'm eager to hear21:45
vbabiyabout the feature tour21:45
vbabiy?21:45
newz2000yes21:45
vbabiyWell for one thing I think that for this part we should break away from the stander ubuntu look and feel page.21:47
vbabiySo when someone comes to the page they will now something changed21:47
* newz2000 is listening21:47
vbabiyits not the old ubuntu21:47
vbabiyI am bounce a few ideas around my head. I have to make prototypes and show everyone. see if any of them stick21:49
newz2000well, my concern is that users should still feel they're on an Ubuntu site. it doesn't have to look exactly but there should be some resemblence I think. I'm flexible though if its really necessary.21:53
emunkkiregarding the conversation, have you already seen my latest kubuntu-website mockup?21:54
vbabiyemunkki: no can you post the url21:54
emunkkisure21:54
emunkkihttp://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/kubuntu_startpage_mockup_5.png21:55
newz2000emunkki: looks sharp, have you met ryanakca yet?21:55
emunkkinewz2000, yes, he's the one who asked me for graphics21:55
newz2000emunkki: I don't suppose I could convince you not to use the ubuntu title font could I?21:56
* newz2000 isn't partial to that font21:56
emunkkisure, no problem21:56
emunkkior course we'll use it on the title21:56
newz2000A font that compliments it nicely, though non-free, is Arial Rounded MT Bold21:56
emunkkibut not necessarily in other elements21:57
newz2000precisely21:57
emunkkii have some non-free fonts also which we might use21:57
emunkkithough on an oss project i think using free fonts would be more appropriate21:57
vbabiyemunkki: that is a nice design21:57
newz2000its my personal opinion, but the title font has some funny chars like m and w that annoy me. :-/21:57
emunkkivbabiy, thanks21:57
emunkkinewz2000, definately :)21:57
emunkkiwould you like to apadt that design to ubuntu also?21:58
newz2000emunkki: so is this a design just for the homepage or would it be used on interior pages?21:58
emunkkithis specific is mainly for the offline start page21:58
emunkkior sth21:58
newz2000oooh21:58
newz2000sharp21:58
emunkkii'm not actually all clear on all this21:58
newz2000I'd consider using something like this for the 8.10 start page21:59
newz2000(for ubuntu)21:59
emunkkibut that design might be adapted to the website also21:59
emunkkinewz2000, do you want me to make one ubuntu-flavoured?21:59
vbabiyemunkki: are you doing this all in Inkscape?21:59
emunkkivbabiy, photoshop21:59
newz2000emunkki: if you want to, yes, but realize that the start page project is bogged down in legal discussions at the moment and there may be no fruit from your labour21:59
newz2000but I like it a lot22:00
emunkkinewz2000, well you can ping me later again22:00
emunkkiit won't take a lot of time to do it anyway22:00
vbabiynewz2000: do we have anther meeting planed yet?22:00
newz2000no22:00
newz2000the big topic needing discussed is the strt page which is stalled22:00
vbabiynewz2000: I guess I should go back and read the mailing list.22:01
newz2000no, sorry, its not been discussed there22:01
newz2000but the feature tour is still on, and I'm itching to see it move forward22:02
newz2000I have an email asking for someone to step up and take the leadership role for that work22:02
vbabiynewz2000: whats going on with the start page?22:02
emunkkinewz2000, is there anybody working on it?22:03
newz2000regarding the start page, moz, google and canonical (not me) are discussing the legal/trademark implications22:03
newz2000so that will probably wait until the last min22:03
vbabiyo okay22:04
newz2000emunkki: do you mean start page or feature tour22:04
emunkkinewz2000, either one22:04
newz2000start page - no, feature tour, not really but I'd like to see that change very soon22:04
newz2000vbabiy just pinged me about that actually22:04
emunkkiok22:05
emunkkivbabiy, if you need some help, you can ping me22:05
newz2000if you guys want to discuss it now we can22:05
emunkkihow cooperative are the ubuntu/kubuntu teams?22:05
emunkkiin terms of websites etc22:05
vbabiyemunkki: we only have one mockup on the wiki. It would be nice to get some more.22:05
newz2000emunkki: regarding cooperative, we've been getting more and more22:06
newz2000ryanakca and I have been communicating for several months trying to get the kubuntu site moved over to drupal22:06
emunkki>__<22:06
vbabiynewz2000: do we have any idea on when the tehem will finalized22:06
emunkkifyi, i hate drupal22:06
newz2000there are better, there are worse22:06
newz2000vbabiy: which theme?22:06
newz2000oh22:07
newz2000desktop theme22:07
vbabiynewz2000: yeah22:07
newz2000no, probably about 3 days after the artwork deadline. :)22:07
emunkkidoes that deadline concern websites?22:07
vbabiyend of the month22:07
newz2000end of sept I think isn't it vbabiy? (25th)22:08
newz2000emunkki: yes and no22:08
emunkkiok...22:08
newz2000the feature tour is some code + some content22:08
vbabiynewz2000: yeah22:08
emunkkianyway i was about to suggest that let's just coop with all the start pages etc22:08
newz2000content is highly dependent on the theme22:08
vbabiyI only look at the first dead line22:08
newz2000emunkki: I'm up for that22:08
emunkkiif there's no epic war between kub/ub22:08
emunkkithat sounds the most logical22:08
newz2000synergy is good22:08
emunkkiwhat about xubuntu team?22:09
emunkkior the other ones22:09
newz2000I have very little communication with them22:09
newz2000I do have good communication with edubuntu22:09
newz2000edubuntu releases in sync with ubuntu/kubuntu so that's the critical one22:09
emunkkijust invite them in22:09
emunkkii might want to take in xubuntu also, as i'm personally a kubuntu user22:09
emunkkiGNAH22:10
emunkkii mean a xubuntu user22:10
emunkkiof course22:10
emunkkiduh22:10
newz2000:-)22:10
* emunkki bangs his head against the wall22:11
newz2000vbabiy: looking at your mockup now22:11
newz2000I think I agree that breaking out of the ubuntu shell is a good idea22:11
vbabiynewz2000: I think you have seen that one22:11
vbabiyyea, I think its time for something new22:11
emunkkii'd suggest that we should build a "way" that all the *ubuntu distros could walk22:12
newz2000I was thinking it would be good to limit vertical scrolling on a 768px high screen22:12
newz2000(for the feature tour)22:12
emunkkiand does not resemble any distribution too much22:12
newz2000emunkki: distros or distro websites?22:12
emunkkibut is somehow in between22:12
emunkkidistro websites :)22:12
newz2000I'm cool with that but we also have to leave room for the distinctive styling represented by each desktop. kubuntu's gloss, edubuntu's bright colors, ubuntu's earthy look22:13
emunkkibecause i feel strongly that *ubuntu is a big phenomenon22:13
emunkkinot concerning only one distro22:13
emunkkibut all of them22:14
emunkkiso it feels a bit awkward when you see a lot of different websites22:14
emunkkiof course styling would be like the distro itself22:14
emunkkibut also such that you can link it to the other *ubuntu distro websites22:14
newz2000mind if we talk about the mockup vbaby made?22:16
emunkkicould we have a meeting about all this?22:16
emunkkisure22:16
newz2000(lets wait and see if vbabiy is up for it)22:16
emunkkiyeah22:16
newz2000emunkki: I'm up for a meeting but I'd like to have a plan for a clear goal... exactly what do we gain by doing it?22:16
vbabiynewz2000: I am22:17
newz2000cool22:17
emunkkinewz2000, putting up coop22:17
emunkkiand synergy22:17
newz2000so I'm looking at your colorful mockup at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidFeatureTour22:17
* emunkki too22:17
emunkkii think it's good, but it's also quite "big"22:17
newz2000it looks good, bright and colorful screenshots22:17
newz2000bigness is one thing I wanted to mention22:17
emunkkiand somehow it resembles me more of kubuntu than ubuntu (for what comes to the comment newz2000 said a while ago)22:17
newz2000the most important part is the screenshots, so I think it would be good to make that bigger22:18
emunkki(distinctive styling)22:18
newz2000which implies making the right nav less so22:18
emunkkifd22:18
vbabiyyeah the nav is way to big22:18
emunkkiwe might modify the display to have left/right buttons22:18
newz2000regarding the display, we did it last time, I think we need something new22:19
emunkkiand by clicking them you would get prev/next screenshot22:19
vbabiyI think that should be 75% of the current size or less22:19
emunkkiaha ok22:19
newz2000(imho)22:19
emunkkii think the reflect of the display is too tall22:19
emunkki(taking too much screen space)22:19
vbabiyI think we should drop the screen thing22:20
emunkkithat might be one solution22:21
emunkkiespecially if we're using it on the start page also22:21
newz2000so here's a radical and possibly unachievable idea22:21
newz2000if we targeted 800 - 850px width (including margin)22:22
newz2000get a nice big screenshot and some way to learn about the ss and navigate to more screens22:22
newz2000and not need to scroll on a 768px high screen22:22
newz2000(browser window maximized at 1024x768)22:23
emunkki...or just make it scalable22:23
newz2000hmm... interesting thought22:23
emunkkican be easily done with css22:23
newz2000vbabiy: thoughts?22:23
emunkkibecause the complete bg doesn't need to show up22:23
emunkkijust choose one where it doesn't matter22:24
vbabiynewz2000: but we would have to use full screen shot for that22:24
newz2000what do you mean by full screenshot?22:24
vbabiyfull screen22:24
emunkkiwhy not overlay all the other elements?22:24
emunkkilike icons on the desktop22:24
emunkkican be easily overlaid22:24
emunkkiand made clickable22:25
newz2000I'm not opposed but caution needed not to get too clever22:25
vbabiyemunkki: I like were you ar going22:25
emunkkiand so you could learn about *ubuntu by seeing ubuntu "work"22:25
vbabiyemunkki: that is lot of work to get done in the time we have :)22:25
newz2000something a lot of people do wrong is that think screenshots have to be this square or rectangle of the screen exactly as they see it on the computer22:25
newz2000you don't have to do that22:26
newz2000instead the screenshot should show just what you want people to see without distracting them with other parts22:26
vbabiynewz2000: I agree with you here I think we should go to more application screen shot then full background screen shots22:26
newz2000right22:26
newz2000one full desktop screenshot max22:26
vbabiyHey guys sorry I got to run, I am so sorry I forgot I have to be in a meeting22:27
vbabiy:)22:27
newz2000no prob22:27
vbabiysorry22:27
newz2000ping me when you have some time22:28
emunkkianyway if we're going to detailed shots, then i think my idea wouldn't work as i thought it22:28
newz2000check this out, but make sure the background image loads before you do anything...22:29
newz2000http://digitarald.de/playground/fly-over-background/22:29
emunkkiok, that's possible22:30
emunkkidoes it work in IE?22:31
newz2000yes22:31
emunkkiok22:31
emunkkimight just work22:31
emunkkithough...22:31
emunkkii just wonder22:31
emunkkiif we're going to show completely different features22:31
newz2000just inspiration, we don't need that and probably shouldn't use it just like that22:32
emunkkiso how we're going to fit all of them in a same screenshot22:32
newz2000I tried... its not possible without a gigantic image22:32
newz2000but imagine this...22:32
newz2000a filmstrip/powerpoint combo22:32
emunkkii think that would work if we had one image per section22:32
newz2000only goes in two dimensions22:32
newz2000(left/right for example)22:32
emunkkiyes22:32
newz2000directions, not dimensions22:33
emunkkiyes22:33
newz2000could use tiling like with google maps to get more data in there without having to load one incredibly slow image22:34
emunkkiyes, possibly22:34
emunkkibut still i wonder how would that work22:35
emunkkieven with a gigantic shot loaded in parts22:35
newz2000it does not have to look like one huge image...22:35
newz2000especially if we're showing closeups of the parts22:35
emunkkiwouldn't it look a bit odd if you're just having an another screen and another screen...22:35
newz2000imagine a power point presentation...22:35
emunkkiyes...22:35
newz2000let me see if I can mock it up real quick22:36
emunkkiimho still, if we use for example that script, id look stupid when the photo is scrolling22:36
newz2000that's just inpsiration22:36
emunkki*it's22:36
emunkki*it'd22:36
emunkkigosh22:36
newz2000hey, half the people I talk to have english as second language, so its no sweat22:36
emunkkisure, but that was not lack of english skills but a typo :P22:37
newz2000I can't mock it up easily22:40
emunkkihehe22:41
newz2000but thinking of a filmstrip...22:41
newz2000there's that black line between the pieces22:41
emunkkiyes22:41
newz2000I'd like to see something more thanjust a simple fade personally, something that makes people say wow22:44
newz2000however caution needed not to go overboard22:44
emunkkilike a moving one?22:44
emunkkibut only in left/right directions?22:44
newz2000yes22:44
emunkkiok22:44
emunkkii can make a mockup if you point me to a few (good) screenshots22:44
newz2000you can grab some off of a past tour...22:45
* newz2000 grabs links22:45
newz2000http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/screenshots-71022:45
emunkkiok thanks22:46
emunkkinewz2000, http://emonk.fi/work/ubuntu/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup.png23:10
newz2000ooh, that looks good23:10
newz2000better than I was imagining23:10
emunkkiha ;)23:10
emunkkiwe might also make the shots a bit opaque23:11
emunkkiand the strip too23:11
emunkkias they are in real life, too23:11
newz2000they're not opaque now?23:11
emunkkino23:11
emunkkionly overlaid23:11
newz2000so lets take it to the next step...23:12
emunkkijust a moment23:13
newz2000ok23:13
emunkkihmm23:13
emunkkiis there a copy of the bg23:13
emunkkifound!23:14
emunkkifile:///home/knome/Stuff/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup_2.png23:18
emunkkierrr23:19
emunkkinewz2000, http://emonk.fi/work/ubuntu/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup_2.png23:19
emunkkii don't know what happened as i really didn't paste the file url23:19
newz2000oh, I see23:19
emunkkibut the http url in a wrong chan :D23:19
newz2000that is elegant23:20
newz2000so here's my thought...23:20
newz2000the fimstrip does not need to be so prominent... keeping the top and bottom about the same height (looks like 45px) but making the images much higher (about 450px high, 600px wide)23:21
newz2000so the strip will be very wide23:21
newz2000and you really only see one image at a time23:21
newz2000that is where the scrolling comes in23:21
emunkkiok23:21
emunkkiwant a screenshot?23:21
emunkkii mean, mockup;)23:21
newz2000no, that's ok23:21
newz2000if you can picture it in your mind23:21
newz2000the "next" arrow causes the strip to slide to the left so that the next screenshot is in view23:22
emunkkisure23:22
newz2000so like that fly by, the screenshots scroll smoothly from next to next23:22
emunkkibut maybe the next and prev shots will be shown at least partly?23:22
newz2000yeah23:22
emunkkiTHAT'd be cool+elegant23:23
newz2000that actually leads to another intersting idea that could be cool if done23:23
emunkkitell me?23:23
newz2000imagine a title for each screenshot shown overlaid on the screenshot23:23
newz2000instead of sliding out at the same speed as the screenshot23:23
newz2000it could slide out at a different speed, giving a sort of parallax scrolling effect23:23
emunkkihmm..23:24
newz2000so to the right you'd see a little bit of the next screenshot and possibly its title23:24
newz2000I may be picturing something impossible23:24
newz2000I do that often23:24
newz2000My artist friends say their challenge is coming up with good ideas... I tell them my challenge is not coming up with the ideas but figuring out how to actually do them. :-)23:25
emunkkihehe23:25
newz2000so with 6 screenshots in a strip the image will be big...23:27
newz2000and therefore tiling may be necessary23:27
newz2000does this idea sound promising or does it sound like it'd be hard to make it attractive enough?23:27
emunkkii just wonder about the picture23:27
emunkkiwould the bg have to be attached?23:28
emunkkiso it wouldn't move as the images move?23:28
newz2000I don't think it would be good to attach the background to the image23:28
newz2000as a matter of fact, the filmstrip could be a bg image too using css23:28
newz2000and really there doesn't need to be a bg or a filmstrip23:29
newz2000:-)23:29
emunkkilol23:29
newz2000I was actually being figurative originally when referring to the filmstrip so that you could visualize how images could be lined up side by side without feeling like they needed to connect23:31
newz2000but the filmstrip looks good23:31
newz2000the images could have a little opacity applied to them using css so that when the scrolled over the background you could see through them23:32
emunkkiyes23:32
newz2000so taking the film idea further...23:33
newz2000imagine the top and bottom of the strip being separate from the images and the dividers23:33
newz2000and even as the picture slides in from the left the top and bottom keep moving to give you the sense of watching an old film movie (like at the beginning when the leaders start)23:34
emunkkihmm23:34
newz2000maybe a few quick flashes of a scratch would zip across23:34
emunkkiyeah maybe :)23:35
newz2000eh23:35
emunkkibut the scratches should be over the imgs ;))23:35
newz2000right23:35
emunkkiotherwise they wouldn't look so good23:35
newz2000si, I don't have strong feelings about this, I'm just pushing for something really visually exciting to look at23:36
newz2000si = so23:36
emunkkithat would be exciting, yes23:37
emunkkibut who would code it?23:37
emunkkistarts to sound we'd be better of to do it with flash23:37
newz2000there are two people on the list who know mootools who offered to help23:37
newz2000(mootools is the effects library used on that flyby)23:37
emunkkiyeah23:38
emunkkialso...23:38
emunkki(bringing the idea further)23:38
emunkki(and easying it)23:38
emunkkiwe might just make an "intro"23:38
emunkkiwith the old filmstrip and scratches23:38
emunkkiwith OLD screenshots23:38
newz2000oh, clever23:38
emunkkiand then BANG out the new, with perfect, no-scracth filmstrip23:39
newz2000it would have to be fast, zip by23:39
emunkkiof course the old screenshots would have to be grayish23:39
emunkkiand the new ones shiny23:39
newz2000oh yeah23:39
emunkkiyes, just a zip by and the "bang" could be that the filmstrip went through EVEN faster23:39
emunkkiand just changing to the new shots23:39
emunkkithat'd also describe the timeline of development23:40
newz2000so mootools can do this, we'd have to test on slower machines and slower networks to ensure it works ok23:41
emunkkiyes23:45
newz2000emunkki: what do you think, does this sound like something you'd want to help out with and something that would produce an exciting result?23:45
emunkkii can help out, but i can't a lot of js23:46
emunkkiand definately is worth at least trying out23:46
newz2000don't sweat the js23:46
emunkkiwe can just put up a quick prototype, can't we?23:46
newz2000yeah23:46
newz2000ok, I'll talk to vbabiy, he wants to help out really bad I think. I'll also see if I can recruit some js help.23:47
newz2000I'll bet this is big enough that we can get several people contributing meaninfully23:47
newz2000I think I better call it quits for a bit and get some dinner23:47
emunkkii'm soon ready for ZZZ ;)23:48
newz2000ok, nice meeting you emunkki. I'll catch you later.23:48
emunkkiyou too23:49
emunkkilet's talk about the coop of the websites later also23:49

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