=== johnc4511 is now known as johnc === johnc is now known as johnc4510 === learner is now known as shahriar086 [16:42] I am wondering why this channel is quite :? [17:00] shahriar086: because no one is talking [17:01] duh! [17:01] :P [17:01] humm ok.. just hoping to catch up how the experts works [17:01] I am still learning [17:05] is there any loging for this channel?? [17:06] I dont think so... or is there?? [17:06] Flannel: ? [17:06] yeah, this channel is logged [17:07] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ [17:07] thanks [17:07] :) [17:13] looks less active [17:13] ;( === shahriar086 is now known as learning [19:44] Wow that was great.. I gave away a PC with Ubuntu on it and the Comcast (broadband internet) guy told the person I gave it to that they had to install a Windows program to get through their firewall to access the Internet.. what a load of balogna [19:45] I never let Internet installation people touch my PCs.. the software they put on is garbage [19:45] humm.. [19:45] what kind of softwares actually? [19:46] and my isp tells me their service is not compatible with linux :S [19:47] that is why my browsing/download speed is poor [19:47] just rubbish talk [19:47] I'm going to call her back later and get her online.. I just can't believe that their service would require a Windows program to access the internet.. it's FUD [19:49] humm I am not a techie person... so I have nothing to compare to,,, but I really dont think Linux have to be supported to get decent internet service [19:50] Linux doesn't connect to the internet any differently than Windows.. it's pretty much plug and play.. there's no software that's needed [19:50] I have talked to few ISP's they say that they will give me internet service for windows,, I will have to set up internet in Linux myself :S [19:51] yep.. they don't train their installers on configuring internet on Linux.. although it's as simple as plugging in the Ethernet cord =X [19:51] actually these isp's knows less about linux... that's why they are afraid to give service on Linux [19:52] yes JonPackard [19:52] actually it is my choice which OS I use... and it is their responsibility to set it up internet on what ever OS my pc have [19:53] be it Linux BSD, or windows [19:54] * learning is wondering so this is when this channel usually gets alive?? I have never found people participating [19:55] Comcast wasn't telling her that they couldn't set it up for her.. they told her that she HAD to have the Windows software to connect to the Internet at all.. I strongly doubt that there's any truth to that [19:55] humm... [19:55] Sometimes people talk... [19:55] yes I get that part [19:55] Anything related to u_m you want to talk about learning? [19:56] I guess people are busy spreading Ubuntu :D ?? [19:56] humm hubuntu not really.. [19:57] I am a marketing student.. so I visit this channel sometimes to see experts work [19:57] but most are too busy to talk :( [19:59] So what you think about ubuntu marketing tactics thus far? [19:59] well nothing much. [20:00] I am from an underdeveloped country. so it is really tough over here to spread Ubuntu, [20:01] Where in the world are you? I'm from an "underdeveloped" country myself [20:02] humm Bangladesh [20:02] South East Asian country [20:03] I know where it is [20:03] ok. so which country you are from? [20:03] Ecuador, but I live in Norway [20:04] ok [20:05] So are there many users of FOSS in Bangladesh? [20:06] Yes there are... [20:06] but in major Cities only. [20:07] How is your LoCo doing? [20:07] sweet.. just called my friend running Ubuntu back.. they finally just plugged the modem into the computer and she was online =D [20:08] hubuntu: they are short of volunteers [20:08] JonPackard: that is great :P [20:09] but we are trying [20:09] we are reorganizing Ubuntu-Bangladesh [20:10] In my experience there are always a few members in a LoCo that are there all the time [20:10] from now on we are planning to be more on the field rather being online.. [20:11] Then you have the occasional members that show up in events and when needed [20:11] yes.. that is also true for us. [20:11] And the people that get interest for a short while [20:11] but organizing events are now tough in BD [20:12] LoCos are mainly "Online umbrellas" for the organization of events and happenings [20:12] you were saying something hubuntu? [20:13] yes, however there are few divisions in the groups, which hurts our causes more [20:13] :( [20:13] Yeah, lots of politics... [20:14] any way.. how you spread the news? [20:14] I mean the philosophy of FOSS? [20:15] While giving support online and organizing events [20:15] Funding some activities as well (when and if I can, of course) [20:16] yes. Currently we are organizing three functions in the coming months.. [20:16] all at leading universities.. [20:16] A good idea is to have working groups within the LoCo [20:17] Students are always good supporters with relatively plenty of time [20:17] yes they are.. [20:18] how you get positive responses from organizations? [20:18] Well, it varies a lot [20:18] Nice talking with you, learning. Have a nice day. Good luck with your marketing studies. :) [20:19] The main idea is to have a plaan and show a good and active community [20:19] I mean we talk to these leading peoples in the unis and offices, they shows plenty of interests initially but when it is required they just say they are unable to support us [20:19] Thank you JonPackard [20:20] which is really problem for us. since we put lots of effort into convincing these people [20:21] Don't be discouraged. Part of the problem with Linux is the very fact that Microsoft has been there ahead of us, and has had time to spread their FUD. [20:22] yes. but I dont really think that is much of a problem [20:22] It's nice to make big changes. But sometimes one has to make little changes first - one person at a time. [20:22] you see we have really good example in our country with other technological sectors [20:23] Unis need serious people doing the contacting job. In Ecuador it works better when 'core members' do the talk [20:23] And make compromises and show seriousness [20:23] yes. but serious 'core members' are actually not that much interest in doing that [20:23] :( [20:24] they are too busy with their professional works recently [20:25] its really tough to balance professional projects and personal projects [20:25] Well... That can always be an issue [20:26] as you see I am really not the right person to make this contacts. (after all who will trust an immature person and make serious commitment right??) [20:28] One way that even a non-techie can make a difference is by talking about one's experiences and handing out disks. [20:28] yes yes.. of course. we do that [20:29] btw can you show me a good place to find ubuntu related resources ?? (I mean tutorials and quick guides.) I know about Ubuntuforums just looking for more organized form [20:29] Put on release parties and invite outsiders to them. Put on install-fests and invite semi-interested people. Show them what Linux and Ubuntu is, and let them interest themselves. Help them to install, and be supportive (such as IRC) for when they run into trouble. [20:30] yes. [20:30] we are becoming more active now. we organized hardy release party this time [20:30] Well I am the contact member for the Ecuadorian Team, but live in Norway... So it is of course easier to tell what I see and hear, than what I do [20:31] also looking to have Free Software day celebration [20:31] + intrepid release party [20:31] Good for you. [20:32] One resource is psychocats: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/ [20:32] but there is one problem. this time of the year most of the people fasts (Ramdan month- Majority is Muslim) so enthusiasm is low [20:32] Besides Bangladesh is very humid country [20:33] we were planning to organize a field infofest .. but had decide against it [20:33] :( [20:34] thanks tyche [20:34] checking [20:34] Main link to the site is http://www.psychocats.net/ [20:34] My bookmarks aren't very well organized. [20:35] Good luck with marketing of FLOSS and Ubuntu in Bangladesh [20:35] Also, there's the UWN https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue102 [20:35] :) [20:35] yes I am aware of UWN [20:36] You can see what other people are doing, and even get in contact with them and ask for help. [20:36] I'm afraid I kinda push that one a bit, since I'm part of the volunteer staff for it. [20:37] yes. we can. But politics and grouping is hampering [20:37] there are 5 separate groups working in my city alone. let alone other cities [20:37] That's always a problem. Cliques are hard to break into [20:38] By separate groups, you mean like Linux User Groups (LUGS)? [20:38] yes [20:39] Most of them works separately, [20:39] OK, one thing we're trying, with some success, in Arizona is to work with them. [20:39] ok listening [20:39] the only problem for us working with them is differences in ideology [20:40] We invited a local LUG to join in an install fest we had, and that was a success. That's lead to our working together on an open source conference set for September 20 [20:40] The differences in ideology disappear when one doesn't just stress ONE distribution or license, or whatever. [20:40] they have taken FOSS as a mean to be their livelihood. i mean they sell FOSS to survive. [20:41] How can a LUG claim Ubuntu is their product? [20:41] In that regard, we've got it lucky. We already had the attitude that it didn't matter what distrubution a person was running, we'd invite them into the channel and try to help. [20:42] The Nicaraguan Team is extremely good at that (meaning cooperation of LUGs and different groups) and they have really gone far.. They even have a tv show [20:42] With FLOSS, the product is service. The software, since it can be picked up for free, really doesn't have a price. [20:42] And the work as a gnu/linux group [20:42] *They [20:42] Besides if we organize a function we will try to make it open for all right?. why charge the attendants fees? [20:43] No fees should ever be necessary [20:43] yes that is the point [20:43] Some things have to be paid for somehow. Catering - insurance on the program, things like that. Either they have to be paid for by the group(s) or by the attendees [20:43] yes tyche but it should have a limit [20:43] We're trying to do it on the free basis, ourselves, and it IS difficult. [20:44] 1000 TK for one day 2 hour function is a bit too high dont you think? [20:44] And since this is our first time out, we're having to stumble through as we find new difficulties. [20:44] yes [20:45] Well, I don't know that 1000TK translates to, but I'd say "yes" [20:45] That's high. [20:45] he he.. [20:45] Trying to get sponsors is always a good idea.. But again it takes time and contacts [20:45] yes [20:45] its a combination of all [20:46] ok can I ask for your guidelines? [20:47] At this point, I'm not sure we have any. it's more like semi-organized chaos. Afterward, we might be able to sort it out into a better guide for ourselves and others. [20:47] ok [20:47] We're still trying to find out what works, ourselves. [20:48] In Norway we try to get sponsors directly, but not as a loco, rather as FLOSS entusiast together with other entusiasts [20:48] humm if politics were not in the groups it would have certainly helped us more [20:48] think of 5 LUG groups working as one [20:48] In Ecuador the financing is by members in a per event basis and some companies (usually affiliated to members or other FLOSS entusiast) [20:49] yea, we "stepped on a stair that wasn't there" with that one. We expected the rivalry, and there wasn't any. [20:49] you are lucky then tyche [20:49] Think of an Ubuntu LoCo as an umbrella organization, the Fedora guys doing the same and we all cooperating [20:50] That would be great as a global strategi [20:50] Yea, Ubuntu, Fedora/RedHat, Debian, BSD. We've got them all. [20:50] *Strategy [20:50] in here you see a person from one LUG group cant be member of another LUG group [20:50] Of course all of the FLOSS ecosystem [20:51] most people are working with ego sense. one cant see another [20:51] Yes we have fedora Bangladesh with us [20:53] If we could cooperate at a marketing level, then synchronization of our releases would be more natural [20:53] That's Mark's theme, hubuntu. Hee hee [20:54] well actually the problem for us is 1) there are less volunteers 2) the people who are interested to work are nontechie 3) there are less people who have the technical know how to help other out [20:54] its not hard really to get other use Linux, but its hard to give them support [20:54] Yes, but the marketing effort is easier to achieve than the technical release synch [20:55] You're not alone in that. We have nearly 100 members "on paper". In reality, we have maybe a handful of people that actually help out with events. [20:55] humm... to tell the truth we are only 5 member group [20:55] Same here, over 100 on paper... Under events just a few step up [20:56] literally ... others are just sleeping [20:56] Good way of describing it. [20:56] Ubuntu-ec is a 3-10 member group [20:56] humm.. [20:56] ubuntu-no the same [20:56] how you manage to organize a infofest? [20:56] Ubuntu-us-az is effectively the same. [20:56] But in the list and the site there hundreds registered [20:57] its hard to get it all organized [20:57] different people have different time schedule [20:58] so coordination is a problem [20:58] I did a release party in Phoenix. There were 2 of us that put it on, and about 12 people that showed up for the party. Some of them became semi-active members, meaning that they are in channel sometimes, and help out when they are. [20:58] hardy release party took us more than a month to get it organize [20:58] The install-fest was much the same way. [20:59] well tyche we are lucky then [20:59] we had 65 attanding [20:59] You did that release party in very short time, then. [20:59] Yes, you are lucky. That's good! [20:59] yes we could have done better [21:00] only problem was that even though we planned for months there were still many lapses [21:00] We all could. We just do the best we can - one event to the next, and learn as we go. [21:00] In our events we always manage to get 10_15 people helping.. Last time we had hundred people coming (from the average 20-30) [21:00] hopefully we will manage to cover them up in the next function [21:00] We did the best out of it [21:00] Im glad we have wubi now [21:01] ahh.. to tell the truth? only one worked to organize the release party [21:01] Advertising is a key factor to getting people to attend events. That's one place where we know we've fallen down in the past. [21:02] Russell John worked worked for weeks to organize it. and we are grateful to him [21:02] but he must start cooperating with others [21:02] we wanted to help, he said he will manage everything, [21:03] There it comes the need for democracy at the organizatory level [21:03] I even did not know who are the speakers (or how many) [21:03] A somehow elected or meritocratically chosen group for different tasks [21:03] ohh yes [21:04] but we dont have that large group to have a democratic selection [21:04] I have mentioned that its only 5 member groups, only Russell John is experience enough to work on it [21:04] Then meritocracy or interest based positions should be good enough [21:05] This is the first time I arranged a release party, so had no prior experience to work [21:05] Rusell can be in all groups, but at the end of the day cooperation must emerge [21:05] yes hubuntu [21:05] It will push itself I gues.. [21:06] well hopefully we will manage this things out the next time [21:06] we have talked with him about cooperation [21:06] Ok guys one question off-topic [21:06] ok [21:09] another major problem for us is that we cant request free CDs on large quantity [21:10] If you where to put everything you have related to marketing (material, guides, artwork, papers) that you or your LoCo has created or changed (or that you have come across for that matter and is not related to your LoCo but can be shared) would you like to post it in the teams page or in a centralized page? [21:10] Same problem here learning... Just order up to 40 CDs and it should be ok [21:10] hubuntu: Now you're talking like a marketing droid. Hee hee [21:10] well hubuntu it depends [21:10] Reality? It needs to be a central resource. [21:11] we have two sites now.. [21:11] It could get centralized with a "collecting module" [21:11] learning: We did the last one on home-burned CDs [21:11] tyche: we also did that [21:11] Takes a lot of work, but it can be done [21:12] but the problem was we requested and recieved 400 cds [21:12] One of the functions (that I see) of marketing is to go out and see what is adaptable, what can be used as a template for something else, and what can be used directly. [21:12] gov charged us 40,000TK [21:12] which is out ragious [21:12] Govs are good at that [21:13] For example, hubuntu, see http://www.flickr.com/photos/22090195@N03/ [21:13] the shipment is now getting rotten at the depo [21:13] We took the idea from what the team leader saw Colorado LoCo do. [21:14] At least the top 4 wallpapers. Ignore the rest. [21:15] learning: out of curiosity, on what basis did the government charge you that much? [21:15] tyche: each cd costing 200 tk [21:16] while we can burn them 15 tk [21:16] But the CDs cost nothing. That's what I can't understand. [21:16] 70 tk = 1 Dollar [21:16] tyche: yes. but current govt is charging tax and customs on everything [21:17] if a bee gets in the country that bee have to pay tax :o [21:17] seriously [21:17] the custom guy told us that [21:17] I believe you. And it is outrageous. [21:18] That sounds more like a scam. Perhaps it should be publicized, so as to shame the government for it's behavior. [21:18] What did the guy told you? [21:18] That is getting rotten? [21:18] yes [21:19] we dumped the consignment... we dont have that much of fund to get it released hubunt [21:19] We had the same problem in Ecuador [21:19] We can't just show up with 100dollars [21:20] tyche: any kind of public criticism against govt is illegal in our country [21:21] You don't have a government, then. You have a gang. [21:21] Sorry, I shouldn't disparage your country. That's improper of me. [21:21] But I really hate seeing people taken advantage of. [21:21] ahh no tyche [21:21] Wow... Without critical voices there's no room for healthy discussions and different opinions [21:21] actually funny thing is we support present govt [21:22] :P [21:22] they are way better than the previous ones [21:23] can you imagine Military-Backed govt. taking over and not a single voiced heard?? [21:23] Well, your point of view is closer to the subject than mine is. And I'm sure that it's valid. Remember, that I'm at a disadvantage, here, in not knowing as much about it as you do. [21:23] yes ofcource tyche [21:23] Yes, actually I can understand that. Especially since what has happened in this country in the past 7 years. [21:24] :P [21:24] sorry. for that [21:24] But that's politics, and I won't get into it here, since the problem is how to help you. [21:24] yes yes [21:24] politics aside [21:25] Is there any way to holler for help outside your country? To get volunteer funds to you to release the disks? [21:25] the thing is now we provide distros by ourselves [21:25] holler? [21:25] Ask [21:25] sorry did not get that part [21:25] Ask outsiders for help [21:25] tyche: that would be nice [21:25] but we dont want to make it an international issue [21:26] I'm not sure that it has to be an international issue. Just a "person to person" issue. [21:26] People helping people. [21:26] its an embarrassement for our country [21:27] tyche: we actually dont want to do so... [21:27] because its off no use anymore [21:27] I understand. And I've seen it in this country, where being in need feel embarrassed about it. [21:27] Why not? It would help to get out 400 cds [21:28] hubunt1: see it in point of feasibility. opportunity [21:28] I can get 400 cds out with 40000 tk [21:29] Is it 8.04? [21:29] and can burn 2666.6 cds with 40000 tk at the rate of 15 tk [21:29] yes hubunt1 [21:29] Oh, but marketing wise the CDs with covers do wonders [21:30] it costs us around 40 tk with all the levelings and such [21:30] But again.. I see your point ;) [21:30] so still 1000 copies [21:30] thank you hubunt1 [21:30] So do I see the point. [21:31] yes that is another reason we did not pursue it much [21:31] *main reason [21:31] Value for money is always a convincing factor. [21:31] he he tyche now can you manage us 40000 tk//?? [21:31] for home burning purpose :P [21:32] its around $571 [21:32] I'm an old, retired man. Where would I come up with so much? I would have to save up my allowance for 6 to 8 months to manage that. [21:32] That's a lot for 571... [21:33] he he :P tyche [21:33] hubunt1: what? [21:33] But I could chip in $20. And if enough others could, then you'd make that goal [21:33] yes tyche [21:33] but that is not what we want [21:34] learning: I don't think that hubunt1 realizes that I really AM an old, retired man. Hee hee [21:34] then other will brand us as money making opportunist [21:34] See https://launchpad.net/~tyche for proof. [21:35] my Father was in BAF [21:35] I meant that 571 dollars is a lot for 400 cds [21:35] ahh yes hubunt1 [21:35] My thougths went faster than myh fingers [21:35] Yea, it's nearly $1.50 per disk. [21:35] so now you get it [21:36] and inhouse we can burn/level/package cds with less than 50 cents [21:36] Yep [21:37] All it takes is your time and energy. [21:38] that is not much tyche because it is worth the time and effort [21:38] tyche: I like the story behind your nick :) [21:40] Yep. She's always with me, even though she found her "doorway into summer" years ago. [21:40] ok :) [21:41] tyche: we all have a bit of moments in our heart about our beloved one. be it family or friends or pet [21:41] And I agree, that it's worth the time and effort. I picked up a spindle of 100 disks for about $12, and burn them off in batches of 10 for installfests and the like. [21:42] yes tyche [21:42] I even got a batch of the mini-jewel cases (half the thickness) to put them in. It still didn't cost me $0.50 apiece for them. [21:43] Just my time and energy. and since I'm retired, I can afford to do that. [21:43] :( [21:43] humm... [21:43] the only drawback is my writer is broken :( [21:43] need to replace it, cant manage the fund [21:44] One thing to stress in marketing is "what do people use a computer for?" Most people use it to connect to the web, for email, maybe for music or videos. Some for word processing or spreadsheets or presentations. Ubuntu has all that on a LiveCD, and you can show it to them. [21:45] humm being a student has some drawback :( [21:45] I cant find a job :( [21:45] yes tyche [21:45] learning: believe me, I know THAT feeling well. Despite being American, I'm not a rich person. And I've had trouble finding work all my life. At least work that paid well. [21:45] only problem?? some minor adjustments [21:45] humm tyche [21:46] We've struggled along, my wife and I. Even been through bankruptcy. But we continue to strive. [21:46] from my personal experience, the codecs needed to be included in the cd [21:46] If they can connect to the web, the codecs are in the repos. [21:46] ahh.. that is nice that you have not given up [21:47] yes tyche [21:47] but many dont have decent connection [21:47] tyche: guess my net speed [21:47] That is a problem. But even so, it's more of a chance for them than having to try to save up for a Microsoft operating system. [21:48] ahh tyche [21:48] And there, all you GET is the operating system. You have to pay again for word processing, etc. [21:48] Bangladesh is no 1 in piracy [21:48] in asia [21:48] and second in the whole world [21:48] you cant find original windows in BD [21:49] With a pirate copy, you are at the mercy of whoever burned it. Does it include viruses, trojans, worms, etc. [21:49] even if you are willing to pay [21:49] yes.. [21:49] but many dont understands these facts [21:49] If it does, (and I would bet that it does) then that computer is no longer your own. It belongs to whoever is using it to distribute more viruses, etc. [21:50] hmm. [21:50] this are philosophical understanding [21:50] I see the wheels spinning, and the gears meshing. Hee hee [21:50] like many wont understand the open source philosophy [21:50] Yes, and I'm a philosopher. [21:51] he he [21:51] I believe in it. [21:51] They can understand free instead of cost. They can understand "sweat equity" - where something is paid for in work rather than in money. [21:51] so I work [21:51] humm.. tyche [21:51] (Actually, I AM a philosopher. I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy) [21:52] really my friends and parents call me crazy for working in open source cause [21:52] Or, as I choose to term it, a B.A. in BS [21:52] :) [21:52] they expect something in return [21:53] if I work for my pleasure they dont get it [21:53] It's your time, and your energy. You can spend them as YOU wish, or you can spend them at someone else's orders. But then THEY benefit. [21:53] yes tyche [21:53] but there is little problem [21:53] its not our tradition :( [21:53] I've had enough jobs where I had to work to someone else's orders. What I do in my time is my business. [21:54] Is it your tradition to help those in need? And yes, that one is hitting below the belt. [21:54] sometimes culture comes in the way (even though I dont believe in those, and I hate them) [21:55] I agree. I've seen culture obstruct progress for too long, even here in America [21:55] humm tyche if I truely think of helping the needy? [21:55] then I should not focus on computer [21:55] I should work curve the proverty [21:56] Are you sure of that? Every step that one takes toward freedom is a step away from poverty - a step towards enabling others. [21:56]