[16:42] <shahriar086> I am wondering why this channel is quite :?
[17:00] <Flannel> shahriar086: because no one is talking
[17:01] <shahriar086> duh!
[17:01] <shahriar086> :P
[17:01] <shahriar086> humm ok.. just hoping to catch up how the experts works
[17:01] <shahriar086> I am still learning
[17:05] <shahriar086> is there any loging for this channel??
[17:06] <shahriar086> I dont think so... or is there??
[17:06] <shahriar086> Flannel: ?
[17:06] <Flannel> yeah, this channel is logged
[17:07] <Flannel> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[17:07] <shahriar086> thanks
[17:07] <shahriar086> :)
[17:13] <shahriar086> looks less active
[17:13] <shahriar086> ;(
[19:44] <JonPackard> Wow that was great.. I gave away a PC with Ubuntu on it and the Comcast (broadband internet) guy told the person I gave it to that they had to install a Windows program to get through their firewall to access the Internet.. what a load of balogna
[19:45] <JonPackard> I never let Internet installation people touch my PCs.. the software they put on is garbage
[19:45] <learning> humm..
[19:45] <learning> what kind of softwares actually?
[19:46] <learning> and my isp tells me their service is not compatible with linux :S
[19:47] <learning> that is why my browsing/download speed is poor
[19:47] <learning> just rubbish talk
[19:47] <JonPackard> I'm going to call her back later and get her online.. I just can't believe that their service would require a Windows program to access the internet.. it's FUD
[19:49] <learning> humm I am not a techie person... so I have nothing to compare to,,, but I really dont think Linux have to be supported to get decent internet service
[19:50] <JonPackard> Linux doesn't connect to the internet any differently than Windows.. it's pretty much plug and play.. there's no software that's needed
[19:50] <learning> I have talked to few ISP's they say that they will give me internet service for windows,, I will have to set up internet in Linux myself :S
[19:51] <JonPackard> yep.. they don't train their installers on configuring internet on Linux.. although it's as simple as plugging in the Ethernet cord =X
[19:51] <learning> actually these isp's knows less about linux... that's why they are afraid to give service on Linux
[19:52] <learning> yes JonPackard
[19:52] <learning> actually it is my choice which OS I use... and it is their responsibility to set it up internet on what ever OS my pc have
[19:53] <learning> be it Linux BSD, or windows
[19:54]  * learning is wondering so this is when this channel usually gets alive?? I have never found people participating
[19:55] <JonPackard> Comcast wasn't telling her that they couldn't set it up for her.. they told her that she HAD to have the Windows software to connect to the Internet at all.. I strongly doubt that there's any truth to that
[19:55] <learning> humm...
[19:55] <hubuntu> Sometimes people talk... 
[19:55] <learning> yes I get that part
[19:55] <hubuntu> Anything related to u_m you want to talk about learning?
[19:56] <learning> I guess people are busy spreading Ubuntu :D ??
[19:56] <learning> humm hubuntu not really..
[19:57] <learning> I am a marketing student.. so I visit this channel sometimes to see experts work
[19:57] <learning> but most are too busy to talk :(
[19:59] <hubuntu> So what you think about ubuntu marketing tactics thus far?
[19:59] <learning> well nothing much.
[20:00] <learning> I am from an underdeveloped country. so it is really tough over here to spread Ubuntu,
[20:01] <hubuntu> Where in the world are you? I'm from an "underdeveloped" country myself
[20:02] <learning> humm Bangladesh
[20:02] <learning> South East Asian country
[20:03] <hubuntu> I know where it is
[20:03] <learning> ok. so which country you are from?
[20:03] <hubuntu> Ecuador, but I live in Norway
[20:04] <learning> ok
[20:05] <hubuntu> So are there many users of FOSS in Bangladesh?
[20:06] <learning> Yes there are...
[20:06] <learning> but in major Cities only.
[20:07] <hubuntu> How is your LoCo doing?
[20:07] <JonPackard> sweet.. just called my friend running Ubuntu back.. they finally just plugged the modem into the computer and she was online =D
[20:08] <learning> hubuntu:  they are short of volunteers
[20:08] <learning> JonPackard: that is great :P
[20:09] <learning> but we are trying
[20:09] <learning> we are reorganizing Ubuntu-Bangladesh
[20:10] <hubuntu> In my experience there are always a few members in a LoCo that are there all the time
[20:10] <learning> from now on we are planning to be more on the field rather being online..
[20:11] <hubuntu> Then you have the occasional members that show up in events and when needed
[20:11] <learning> yes.. that is also true for us.
[20:11] <hubuntu> And the people that  get interest for a short while
[20:11] <learning> but organizing events are now tough in BD
[20:12] <hubuntu> LoCos are mainly "Online umbrellas" for the organization of events and happenings
[20:12] <learning> you were saying something hubuntu?
[20:13] <learning> yes, however there are few divisions in the groups, which hurts our causes more
[20:13] <learning> :(
[20:13] <hubuntu> Yeah, lots of politics...
[20:14] <learning> any way.. how you spread the news?
[20:14] <learning> I mean the philosophy of FOSS?
[20:15] <hubuntu> While giving support online and organizing events
[20:15] <hubuntu> Funding some activities as well (when and if I can, of course)
[20:16] <learning> yes. Currently we are organizing three functions in the coming months..
[20:16] <learning> all at leading universities..
[20:16] <hubuntu> A good idea is to have working groups within the LoCo
[20:17] <hubuntu> Students are always good supporters with relatively plenty of time
[20:17] <learning> yes they are..
[20:18] <learning> how you get positive responses from organizations?
[20:18] <hubuntu> Well, it varies a lot
[20:18] <JonPackard> Nice talking with you, ﻿learning. Have a nice day. Good luck with your marketing studies. :)
[20:19] <hubuntu> The main idea is to have a plaan and show a good and active community
[20:19] <learning> I mean we talk to these leading peoples in the unis and offices, they shows plenty of interests initially but when it is required they just say they are unable to support us
[20:19] <learning> Thank you JonPackard
[20:20] <learning> which is really problem for us. since we put lots of effort into convincing these people
[20:21] <tyche> Don't be discouraged.  Part of the problem with Linux is the very fact that Microsoft has been there ahead of us, and has had time to spread their FUD.
[20:22] <learning> yes. but I dont really think that is much of a problem
[20:22] <tyche> It's nice to make big changes.  But sometimes one has to make little changes first - one person at a time.
[20:22] <learning> you see we have really good example in our country with other technological sectors
[20:23] <hubuntu> Unis need serious people doing the contacting job. In Ecuador it works better when 'core members' do the talk
[20:23] <hubuntu> And make compromises and show seriousness
[20:23] <learning> yes. but serious 'core members' are actually not that much interest in doing that
[20:23] <learning> :(
[20:24] <learning> they are too busy with their professional works recently
[20:25] <learning> its really tough to balance professional projects and personal projects
[20:25] <hubuntu> Well... That can always be an issue
[20:26] <learning> as you see I am really not the right person to make this contacts. (after all who will trust an immature person and make serious commitment right??)
[20:28] <tyche> One way that even a non-techie can make a difference is by talking about one's experiences and handing out disks.
[20:28] <learning> yes yes.. of course. we do that
[20:29] <learning> btw can you show me a good place to find ubuntu related resources ?? (I mean tutorials and quick guides.) I know about Ubuntuforums just looking for more organized form
[20:29] <tyche> Put on release parties and invite outsiders to them.  Put on install-fests and invite semi-interested people.  Show them what Linux and Ubuntu is, and let them interest themselves.  Help them to install, and be supportive (such as IRC) for when they run into trouble.
[20:30] <learning> yes.
[20:30] <learning> we are becoming more active now. we organized hardy  release party this time
[20:30] <hubuntu> Well I am the contact member for the Ecuadorian Team, but live in Norway... So it is of course easier to tell what I see and hear, than what I do
[20:31] <learning> also looking to have Free Software day celebration
[20:31] <learning> + intrepid release party
[20:31] <tyche> Good for you.
[20:32] <tyche> One resource is psychocats:  http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/
[20:32] <learning> but there is one problem. this time of the year most of the people fasts (Ramdan month- Majority is Muslim)  so enthusiasm is low
[20:32] <learning> Besides Bangladesh is very humid country
[20:33] <learning> we were planning to organize a field infofest .. but had decide against it
[20:33] <learning> :(
[20:34] <learning> thanks tyche
[20:34] <learning> checking
[20:34] <tyche> Main link to the site is http://www.psychocats.net/
[20:34] <tyche> My bookmarks aren't very well organized.
[20:35] <hubuntu> Good luck with marketing of FLOSS and Ubuntu in Bangladesh
[20:35] <tyche> Also, there's the UWN https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue102
[20:35] <hubuntu> :)
[20:35] <learning> yes I am aware of UWN
[20:36] <tyche> You can see what other people are doing, and even get in contact with them and ask for help.
[20:36] <tyche> I'm afraid I kinda push that one a bit, since I'm part of the volunteer staff for it.
[20:37] <learning> yes. we can. But politics and grouping is hampering
[20:37] <learning> there are 5 separate groups working in my city alone. let alone other cities
[20:37] <tyche> That's always a problem.  Cliques are hard to break into
[20:38] <tyche> By separate groups, you mean like Linux User Groups (LUGS)?
[20:38] <learning> yes
[20:39] <learning> Most of them works separately,
[20:39] <tyche> OK, one thing we're trying, with some success, in Arizona is to work with them.
[20:39] <learning> ok listening
[20:39] <learning> the only problem for us working with them is differences in ideology
[20:40] <tyche> We invited a local LUG to join in an install fest we had, and that was a success.  That's lead to our working together on an open source conference set for September 20
[20:40] <tyche> The differences in ideology disappear when one doesn't just stress ONE distribution or license, or whatever.
[20:40] <learning> they have taken FOSS as a mean to be their livelihood. i mean they sell FOSS to survive.
[20:41] <learning> How can a LUG claim Ubuntu is their product?
[20:41] <tyche> In that regard, we've got it lucky.  We already had the attitude that it didn't matter what distrubution a person was running, we'd invite them into the channel and try to help.
[20:42] <hubuntu> The Nicaraguan Team is extremely good at that (meaning cooperation of LUGs and different groups) and they have really gone far.. They even have a tv show
[20:42] <tyche> With FLOSS, the product is service.  The software, since it can be picked up for free, really doesn't have a price.
[20:42] <hubuntu> And the work as a gnu/linux group
[20:42] <hubuntu> *They
[20:42] <learning> Besides if we organize a function we will try to make it open for all right?. why charge the attendants fees?
[20:43] <hubuntu> No fees should ever be necessary
[20:43] <learning> yes that is the point
[20:43] <tyche> Some things have to be paid for somehow.  Catering - insurance on the program, things like that.  Either they have to be paid for by the group(s) or by the attendees
[20:43] <learning> yes tyche but it should have a limit
[20:43] <tyche> We're trying to do it on the free basis, ourselves, and it IS difficult.
[20:44] <learning> 1000 TK for one day 2 hour function is a bit too high dont you think?
[20:44] <tyche> And since this is our first time out, we're having to stumble through as we find new difficulties.
[20:44] <learning> yes
[20:45] <tyche> Well, I don't know that 1000TK translates to, but I'd say "yes"
[20:45] <tyche> That's high.
[20:45] <learning> he he..
[20:45] <hubuntu> Trying to get sponsors is always a good idea.. But again it takes time and contacts
[20:45] <learning> yes
[20:45] <learning> its a combination of all
[20:46] <learning> ok can I ask for your guidelines?
[20:47] <tyche> At this point, I'm not sure we have any.  it's more like semi-organized chaos.  Afterward, we might be able to sort it out into a better guide for ourselves and others.
[20:47] <learning> ok
[20:47] <tyche> We're still trying to find out what works, ourselves.
[20:48] <hubuntu> In Norway we try to get sponsors directly, but not as a loco, rather as FLOSS entusiast together with other entusiasts
[20:48] <learning> humm if politics were not in the groups it would have certainly helped us more
[20:48] <learning> think of 5 LUG groups working as one
[20:48] <hubuntu> In Ecuador the financing is by members in a per event basis and some companies (usually affiliated to members or other FLOSS entusiast)
[20:49] <tyche> yea, we "stepped on a stair that wasn't there" with that one.  We expected the rivalry, and there wasn't any.
[20:49] <learning> you are lucky then tyche
[20:49] <hubuntu> Think of an Ubuntu LoCo as an umbrella organization, the Fedora guys doing the same and we all cooperating
[20:50] <hubuntu> That would be great as a global strategi
[20:50] <tyche> Yea, Ubuntu, Fedora/RedHat, Debian, BSD.  We've got them all.
[20:50] <hubuntu> *Strategy
[20:50] <learning> in here you see a person from one LUG group cant be member of another LUG group
[20:50] <hubuntu> Of course all of the FLOSS ecosystem
[20:51] <learning> most people are working with ego sense. one cant see another
[20:51] <learning> Yes we have fedora Bangladesh with us
[20:53] <hubuntu> If we could cooperate at a marketing level, then synchronization of our releases would be more natural
[20:53] <tyche> That's Mark's theme, hubuntu.  Hee hee
[20:54] <learning> well actually the problem for us is 1) there are less volunteers 2) the people who are interested to work are nontechie 3) there are less people who have the technical know how to help other out
[20:54] <learning> its not hard really to get other use Linux, but its hard to give them support
[20:54] <hubuntu> Yes, but the marketing effort is easier to achieve than the technical release synch
[20:55] <tyche> You're not alone in that.  We have nearly 100 members "on paper".  In reality, we have maybe a handful of people that actually help out with events.
[20:55] <learning> humm... to tell the truth we are only 5 member group
[20:55] <hubuntu> Same here, over 100 on paper... Under events just a few step up
[20:56] <learning> literally ... others are just sleeping
[20:56] <tyche> Good way of describing it.
[20:56] <hubuntu> Ubuntu-ec is a 3-10 member group
[20:56] <learning> humm..
[20:56] <hubuntu> ubuntu-no the same
[20:56] <learning> how you manage to organize a infofest?
[20:56] <tyche> Ubuntu-us-az is effectively the same.
[20:56] <hubuntu> But in the list and the site there hundreds registered
[20:57] <learning> its hard to get it all organized
[20:57] <learning> different people have different time schedule
[20:58] <learning> so coordination is a problem
[20:58] <tyche> I did a release party in Phoenix.  There were 2 of us that put it on, and about 12  people that showed up for the party.  Some of them became semi-active members, meaning that they are in channel sometimes, and help out when they are.
[20:58] <learning> hardy release party took us more than a month to get it organize
[20:58] <tyche> The install-fest was much the same way.
[20:59] <learning> well tyche we are lucky then
[20:59] <learning> we had 65 attanding
[20:59] <tyche> You did that release party in very short time, then.
[20:59] <tyche> Yes, you are lucky.  That's good!
[20:59] <learning> yes we could have done better
[21:00] <learning> only problem was that even though we planned for months there were still many lapses
[21:00] <tyche> We all could.  We just do the best we can - one event to the next, and learn as we go.
[21:00] <hubuntu> In our events we always manage to get 10_15 people helping.. Last time we had hundred people coming (from the average 20-30)
[21:00] <learning> hopefully we will manage to cover them up in the next function
[21:00] <hubuntu> We did the best out of it
[21:00] <hubuntu> Im glad we have wubi now
[21:01] <learning> ahh.. to tell the truth? only one worked to organize the release party
[21:01] <tyche> Advertising is a key factor to getting people to attend events.  That's one place where we know we've fallen down in the past.
[21:02] <learning> Russell John worked worked for weeks to organize it. and we are grateful to him
[21:02] <learning> but he must start cooperating with others
[21:02] <learning> we wanted to help, he said he will manage everything,
[21:03] <hubuntu> There it comes the need for democracy at the organizatory level
[21:03] <learning> I even did not know who are the speakers (or how many)
[21:03] <hubuntu> A somehow elected or meritocratically chosen group for different tasks
[21:03] <learning> ohh yes
[21:04] <learning> but we dont have that large group to have a democratic selection
[21:04] <learning> I have mentioned that its only 5 member groups, only Russell John is experience enough to work on it
[21:04] <hubuntu> Then meritocracy or interest based positions should be good enough
[21:05] <learning> This is the first time I arranged a release party, so had no prior experience to work
[21:05] <hubuntu> Rusell can be in all groups, but at the end of the day cooperation must emerge
[21:05] <learning> yes hubuntu
[21:05] <hubuntu> It will push itself I gues..
[21:06] <learning> well hopefully we will manage this things out the next time
[21:06] <learning> we have talked with him about cooperation
[21:06] <hubuntu> Ok guys one question off-topic
[21:06] <learning> ok
[21:09] <learning> another major problem for us is that we cant request free CDs on large quantity
[21:10] <hubuntu> If you where to put everything you have related to marketing (material, guides, artwork, papers) that you or your LoCo has created or changed (or that you have come across for that matter and is not related to your LoCo but can be shared) would you like to post it in the teams page or in a centralized page?
[21:10] <hubuntu> Same problem here learning... Just order up to 40 CDs and it should be ok
[21:10] <tyche> hubuntu: Now you're talking like a marketing droid.  Hee hee
[21:10] <learning> well hubuntu it depends
[21:10] <tyche> Reality?  It needs to be a central resource.
[21:11] <learning> we have two sites now..
[21:11] <hubuntu> It could get centralized with a "collecting module"
[21:11] <tyche> learning: We did the last one on home-burned CDs
[21:11] <learning> tyche: we also did that
[21:11] <hubuntu> Takes a lot of work, but it can be done
[21:12] <learning> but the problem was we requested and recieved 400 cds
[21:12] <tyche> One of the functions (that I see) of marketing is to go out and see what is adaptable, what can be used as a template for something else, and what can be used directly.
[21:12] <learning> gov charged us 40,000TK
[21:12] <learning> which is out ragious
[21:12] <hubuntu> Govs are good at that
[21:13] <tyche> For example, hubuntu, see http://www.flickr.com/photos/22090195@N03/
[21:13] <learning> the shipment is now getting rotten at the depo
[21:13] <tyche> We took the idea from what the team leader saw Colorado LoCo do.
[21:14] <tyche> At least the top 4 wallpapers.  Ignore the rest.
[21:15] <tyche> learning: out of curiosity, on what basis did the government charge you that much?
[21:15] <learning> tyche:  each cd costing 200 tk
[21:16] <learning> while we can burn them 15 tk
[21:16] <tyche> But the CDs cost nothing.  That's what I can't understand.
[21:16] <learning> 70 tk = 1 Dollar
[21:16] <learning> tyche: yes. but current govt is charging tax and customs on everything
[21:17] <learning> if a bee gets in the country that bee have to pay tax :o
[21:17] <learning> seriously
[21:17] <learning> the custom guy told us that
[21:17] <tyche> I believe you.  And it is outrageous.
[21:18] <tyche> That sounds more like a scam.  Perhaps it should be publicized, so as to shame the government for it's behavior.
[21:18] <hubunt1> What did the guy told you?
[21:18] <hubunt1> That is getting rotten?
[21:18] <learning> yes
[21:19] <learning> we dumped the consignment... we dont have that much of fund to get it released hubunt
[21:19] <hubunt1> We had the same problem in Ecuador
[21:19] <hubunt1> We can't just show up with 100dollars
[21:20] <learning> tyche:  any kind of public criticism against govt is illegal in our country
[21:21] <tyche> You don't have a government, then.  You have a gang.
[21:21] <tyche> Sorry, I shouldn't disparage your country.  That's improper of me.
[21:21] <tyche> But I really hate seeing people taken advantage of.
[21:21] <learning> ahh no tyche
[21:21] <hubunt1> Wow... Without critical voices there's no room for healthy discussions and different opinions 
[21:21] <learning> actually funny thing is we support present govt
[21:22] <learning> :P
[21:22] <learning> they are way better than the previous ones
[21:23] <learning> can you imagine Military-Backed govt. taking over and not a single voiced heard??
[21:23] <tyche> Well, your point of view is closer to the subject than mine is.  And I'm sure that it's valid.  Remember, that I'm at a disadvantage, here, in not knowing as much about it as you do.
[21:23] <learning> yes ofcource tyche
[21:23] <tyche> Yes, actually I can understand that.  Especially since what has happened in this country in the past 7 years.
[21:24] <learning> :P
[21:24] <learning> sorry. for that
[21:24] <tyche> But that's politics, and I won't get into it here, since the problem is how to help you.
[21:24] <learning> yes yes
[21:24] <learning> politics aside
[21:25] <tyche> Is there any way to holler for help outside your country?  To get volunteer funds to you to release the disks?
[21:25] <learning> the thing is now we provide distros by ourselves
[21:25] <learning> holler?
[21:25] <tyche> Ask
[21:25] <learning> sorry did not get that part
[21:25] <tyche> Ask outsiders for help
[21:25] <learning> tyche:  that would be nice
[21:25] <learning> but we dont want to make it an international issue
[21:26] <tyche> I'm not sure that it has to be an international issue.  Just a "person to person" issue.
[21:26] <tyche> People helping people.
[21:26] <learning> its an embarrassement for our country
[21:27] <learning> tyche: we actually dont want to do so...
[21:27] <learning> because its off no use anymore
[21:27] <tyche> I understand.  And I've seen it in this country, where being in need feel embarrassed about it.
[21:27] <hubunt1> Why not? It would help to get out 400 cds
[21:28] <learning> hubunt1: see it in point of feasibility. opportunity
[21:28] <learning> I can get 400 cds out with 40000 tk
[21:29] <hubunt1> Is it 8.04?
[21:29] <learning> and can burn 2666.6  cds with 40000 tk at the rate of 15 tk
[21:29] <learning> yes hubunt1
[21:29] <hubunt1> Oh, but marketing wise the CDs with covers do wonders
[21:30] <learning> it costs us around 40 tk with all the levelings and such
[21:30] <hubunt1> But again.. I see your point ;)
[21:30] <learning> so still 1000 copies
[21:30] <learning> thank you hubunt1
[21:30] <tyche> So do I see the point.
[21:31] <learning> yes that is another reason we did not pursue it much
[21:31] <learning> *main reason
[21:31] <tyche> Value for money is always a convincing factor.
[21:31] <learning> he he tyche now can you manage us 40000 tk//??
[21:31] <learning> for home burning purpose :P
[21:32] <learning> its around $571
[21:32] <tyche> I'm an old, retired man.  Where would I come up with so much?  I would have to save up my allowance for 6 to 8 months to manage that.
[21:32] <hubunt1> That's a lot for 571...
[21:33] <learning> he he :P tyche
[21:33] <learning> hubunt1: what?
[21:33] <tyche> But I could chip in $20.  And if enough others could, then you'd make that goal
[21:33] <learning> yes tyche
[21:33] <learning> but that is not what we want
[21:34] <tyche> learning: I don't think that hubunt1 realizes that I really AM an old, retired man.  Hee hee
[21:34] <learning> then other will brand us as money making opportunist
[21:34] <tyche> See https://launchpad.net/~tyche for proof.
[21:35] <learning> my Father was in BAF
[21:35] <hubunt1> I meant that 571 dollars is a lot for 400 cds
[21:35] <learning> ahh yes hubunt1
[21:35] <hubunt1> My thougths went faster than myh fingers
[21:35] <tyche> Yea, it's nearly $1.50 per disk.
[21:35] <learning> so now you get it
[21:36] <learning> and inhouse we can burn/level/package cds with less than 50 cents
[21:36] <tyche> Yep
[21:37] <tyche> All it takes is your time and energy.
[21:38] <learning> that is not much tyche because it is worth the time and effort
[21:38] <learning> tyche:  I like the story behind your nick :)
[21:40] <tyche> Yep.  She's always with me, even though she found her "doorway into summer" years ago.
[21:40] <learning> ok :)
[21:41] <learning> tyche: we all have a bit of moments in our heart about our beloved one. be it family or friends or pet
[21:41] <tyche> And I agree, that it's worth the time and effort.  I picked up a spindle of 100 disks for about $12, and burn them off in batches of 10 for installfests and the like.
[21:42] <learning> yes tyche
[21:42] <tyche> I even got a batch of the mini-jewel cases (half the thickness) to put them in.  It still didn't cost me $0.50 apiece for them.
[21:43] <tyche> Just my time and energy.  and since I'm retired, I can afford to do that.
[21:43] <learning> :(
[21:43] <learning> humm...
[21:43] <learning> the only drawback is my writer is broken :(
[21:43] <learning> need to replace it, cant manage the fund
[21:44] <tyche> One thing to stress in marketing is "what do people use a computer for?"  Most people use it to connect to the web, for email, maybe for music or videos.  Some for word processing or spreadsheets or presentations.  Ubuntu has all that on a LiveCD, and you can show it to them.
[21:45] <learning> humm being a student has some drawback :(
[21:45] <learning> I cant find a job :(
[21:45] <learning> yes tyche
[21:45] <tyche> learning: believe me, I know THAT feeling well.  Despite being American, I'm not a rich person.  And I've had trouble finding work all my life.  At least work that paid well.
[21:45] <learning> only problem?? some minor adjustments
[21:45] <learning> humm tyche
[21:46] <tyche> We've struggled along, my wife and I.  Even been through bankruptcy.  But we continue to strive.
[21:46] <learning> from my personal experience, the codecs needed to be included in the cd
[21:46] <tyche> If they can connect to the web, the codecs are in the repos.
[21:46] <learning> ahh.. that is nice that you have not given up
[21:47] <learning> yes tyche
[21:47] <learning> but many dont have decent connection
[21:47] <learning> tyche:  guess my net speed
[21:47] <tyche> That is a problem.  But even so, it's more of a chance for them than having to try to save up for a Microsoft operating system.
[21:48] <learning> ahh tyche
[21:48] <tyche> And there, all you GET is the operating system.  You have to pay again for word processing, etc.
[21:48] <learning> Bangladesh is no 1 in piracy
[21:48] <learning> in asia
[21:48] <learning> and second in the whole world
[21:48] <learning> you cant find original windows in BD
[21:49] <tyche> With a pirate copy, you are at the mercy of whoever burned it.  Does it include viruses, trojans, worms, etc.
[21:49] <learning> even if you are willing to pay
[21:49] <learning> yes..
[21:49] <learning> but many dont understands these facts
[21:49] <tyche> If it does, (and I would bet that it does) then that computer is no longer your own.  It belongs to whoever is using it to distribute more viruses, etc.
[21:50] <learning> hmm.
[21:50] <learning> this are philosophical understanding
[21:50] <tyche> I see the wheels spinning, and the gears meshing.  Hee hee
[21:50] <learning> like many wont understand the open source philosophy
[21:50] <tyche> Yes, and I'm a philosopher.
[21:51] <learning> he he
[21:51] <learning> I believe in it.
[21:51] <tyche> They can understand free instead of cost.  They can understand "sweat equity" - where something is paid for in work rather than in money.
[21:51] <learning> so I work
[21:51] <learning> humm.. tyche
[21:51] <tyche> (Actually, I AM a philosopher.  I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy)
[21:52] <learning> really my friends and parents call me crazy for working in open source cause
[21:52] <tyche> Or, as I choose to term it, a B.A. in BS
[21:52] <learning> :)
[21:52] <learning> they expect something in return
[21:53] <learning> if I work for my pleasure they dont get it
[21:53] <tyche> It's your time, and your energy.  You can spend them as YOU wish, or you can spend them at someone else's orders.  But then THEY benefit.
[21:53] <learning> yes tyche
[21:53] <learning> but there is little problem
[21:53] <learning> its not our tradition :(
[21:53] <tyche> I've had enough jobs where I had to work to someone else's orders.  What I do in my time is my business.
[21:54] <tyche> Is it your tradition to help those in need?  And yes, that one is hitting below the belt.
[21:54] <learning> sometimes culture comes in the way (even though I dont believe in those, and I hate them)
[21:55] <tyche> I agree.  I've seen culture obstruct progress for too long, even here in America
[21:55] <learning> humm tyche if I truely think of helping the needy?
[21:55] <learning> then I should not focus on computer
[21:55] <learning> I should work curve the proverty
[21:56] <tyche> Are you sure of that?  Every step that one takes toward freedom is a step away from poverty - a step towards enabling others.
[21:56] <learning> 60% people earns less than $10
[21:56] <learning> so they dont have the mean to have computer
[21:56] <tyche> I believe it.
[21:56] <learning> perhaps tyche
[21:56] <learning> I am still not that matured to understand that
[21:57] <tyche> Yes, and I'm talking from outside your culture and environment, so I may know nothing about it.
[21:57] <learning> no its ok tyche
[21:57] <tyche> We each see things from our own point of view.
[21:57] <learning> yes we do
[21:58] <learning> like we have perception that westerners have a easy life, easy funding
[21:58] <tyche> And I'm not out to sell you anything, even ideas.  If something I say helps you in ANY way, and not just in computing or with Linux or FLOSS, then that's something.
[21:58] <learning> but I am sure it is not true
[21:59] <tyche> Believe me, that's only really true for the top 10% of the population.
[21:59] <learning> tyche: please be free of any thoughts about offending me
[21:59] <tyche> It's just that they're most visible.
[21:59] <learning> I dont get offended so easily..
[21:59] <learning> I am open to listen other's opinion
[21:59] <tyche> I'm glad of that.  Because I truly do not mean any offense.
[22:00] <learning> :)
[22:00] <tyche> I tend to be too direct in my talking (and typing).  And some people DO find that offensive.
[22:00] <learning> ahh I am direct person
[22:00] <learning> sometimes it is a problem (I faced it myself)
[22:01] <tyche> Yes, and you've taught me more about your culture and environment than I knew before because of that directness.  So I'm grateful.
[22:02] <learning> ahh tyche then I think you have wrong perception about our country
[22:02] <learning> :(
[22:02] <learning> because i have not talked anything positive about my country
[22:02] <learning> (though I love it in every way)
[22:03] <tyche> Not really.  It sounds like much of your country is like much of mine. . . struggling to just get along.  Anyone can say the good things about their country.  It takes understanding to recognize the things that are less than perfect, and STILL love one's country.
[22:03] <learning> :)
[22:03] <learning> thanks
[22:04] <tyche> That you feel the way you do is a credit to you.
[22:04] <learning> what I love most about my country?? the dedication of the people... if people believe something they are ready to give their lives for it
[22:04] <tyche> It demonstrates a maturity beyond what most people achieve in their entire lifetime.
[22:05] <learning> ?
[22:06] <tyche> Most people can't take in the entire spectrum of what their culture, environment, etc. that makes up their country.  So they only listen to what others of their group say, and only believe that.
[22:06] <tyche> Sometimes, it's right.  Most times, it has errors in its thinking that they'll never discover, because they don't understand themselves.
[22:07] <hubunt1> I believe everybody can, and at some level do take the spectrum of what means to be human
[22:07] <hubunt1> Which does not mean that it is easily explainable in a logical-discursive framework ;)
[22:07] <tyche> That they can, I will agree.  That they do is in question.  There are too many out there that want to control the way people think
[22:08] <tyche> Oh, I QUITE agree with THAT!  LOL
[22:08] <hubunt1> BA in Philosophy here too ;)
[22:09] <tyche> hubunt1: Oh, you poor guy.  Hee hee
[22:09] <tyche> You're as warped as I am.
[22:09] <learning> ahh then philosophy helps marketing :)
[22:10] <learning> but I wanted to study psychology :(
[22:10] <tyche> Well, philosophy helps with BSing.
[22:10] <hubunt1> Studied a bit of marketing too.. FWIW
[22:10] <hubunt1> And worked in sales, which helps way more than theory
[22:11] <tyche> I've taken some psychology, too.  Also sociology, history, anthropology, literature, music.  At the time, I was studying to become a minister.
[22:11] <learning> :)
[22:11] <learning> I am only marketing
[22:11] <learning> yet to finish
[22:12] <tyche> The thing with marketing is to find out what people want, then "sell" it to them.
[22:12] <hubunt1> I took some IT related subjectas too... Minister as in a Department or as in Church?
[22:12] <tyche> As in Church.
[22:12] <learning> I think church
[22:12] <learning> see :P
[22:12] <tyche> And that, too, has its marketing.  Hee hee
[22:12] <tyche> I didn't make it.  I ran out of money, first.
[22:13] <hubunt1> True
[22:13] <learning> seems I am the youngest, and immatured of you
[22:14] <tyche> One way of looking at it is that we have lived the same amount of time:  All our lives.
[22:14] <tyche> What differs is the experiences we've had.
[22:15] <tyche> Some people have more experiences in 11 years than others do in 30 or 40
[22:15] <learning> ahh.
[22:16] <learning> that is actually what I meant in the tradition way
[22:16] <tyche> Oh?
[22:16] <learning> our tradition is family guides what we do
[22:16] <learning> so we dont have much liberty to explore the posibilities
[22:16] <tyche> Yes, I grew up that way.  Then I broke free of it.
[22:17] <learning> when is the first time you were free?
[22:17] <tyche> I had to.  I was an introvert, and unable to function in the "outside" world.
[22:17] <learning> we get freedom at the age of 30
[22:17] <tyche> I decided I didn't want to be that way when I was 19, and in the Air Force.
[22:17] <learning> humm tyche I am still an introvert
[22:17] <learning> but changing
[22:18] <tyche> You're doing better than I could have when I was one.
[22:18] <tyche> I had to tear down my entire personality and put it back together.  And I had no one to help.
[22:18] <learning> I am in this arena (lnux/opensource/online) for about a year
[22:18] <learning> humm tyche I am more free online
[22:19] <learning> I am very introvert inperson
[22:19] <learning> but I am changing myself
[22:19] <tyche> I didn't have that, then.  That was back in the early 1960's.  However, every step, even if it's not in person, helps to overcome that introversion.
[22:20] <learning> yes tyche true
[22:20] <learning> I am sure it was hard for you to change to cope with the situation
[22:20] <learning> I was in the cadet, but had to left it
[22:21] <learning> in the last year :(
[22:21] <learning> sorry for my language... please pardon the spelling and grammatical errors
[22:21] <tyche> It took some time for me to make the change.  I was 25 before the groundwork was fully laid.  Then it was a long time afterward before I actually became comfortable with the changes.  There are still elements of socialization that I can't handle.
[22:22] <tyche> learning: You're doing fine.  I can understand what you're saying.
[22:22] <learning> humm..
[22:24] <learning> hubunt1: I see your name on spreadubuntu.
[22:24] <learning> can you explain what it is about
[22:25] <learning> I mean I know what it is, but how?
[22:32] <tyche> learning: I don't think he's ignoring you.  I think he's got connection problems.
[22:32] <learning> ahh not about ignoring
[22:32] <learning> he might be busy with work
[22:32] <tyche> That, too.
[22:33] <learning> :)
[22:33] <tyche> Here's their wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu
[22:33] <learning> I have seen it before
[22:33] <learning> just it seems dead (no offence)
[22:34] <tyche> Well, it's one reason that I'm not in this channel very often.  The marketing team just didn't seem to be going anyplace.  Or at least not any place that I wanted to go.
[22:35] <learning> humm..
[22:35] <tyche> I dropped in earlier to see if hubuntu was here, to ask him about something he asked me to include in the UWN.
[22:35] <learning> ohh ok
[22:35] <learning> I dont know much about the inner works.
[22:36] <tyche> I just hadn't left the channel.  Too busy working on the teasers in the UWN.  Then I noticed the tab flashing, and took a look, and there you were.
[22:36] <learning> ahh.
[22:36] <learning> thanks for being here :)
[22:36] <learning> I tell what I see and understand. and yes Ubuntu-marketing seems lost, no guideline
[22:37] <tyche> And part of the whole way that #ubuntu-us-az handles itself is to try to find solutions for people's problems.
[22:37] <learning> perhaps those who are directly involved understands better
[22:37] <tyche> I would hope so.
[22:37] <aflake> I just joined the marketing team today, don't say that!
[22:37] <tyche> But I feel that I'm doing more within my LoCo and the UWN than I could here.
[22:38] <learning> aflake: I am saying on part of 3rd person view
[22:38] <tyche> aflake: Then maybe you can make a difference.  :-D
[22:38] <aflake> Care for a suggestion?
[22:38] <tyche> I'm always open to suggestions.  Sometimes I even use them.
[22:38] <tyche> Hee hee
[22:39] <aflake> As a writer I wuld suggest each local do it's own marketing as much as possible. THen the global approach would simply follow the leads the LoCo's develop that work.
[22:39] <aflake> Saves time, money, effort, and everything is proven on a smaller scale.
[22:40] <learning> aflake: that is true, however there should be a guideline
[22:40] <aflake> Marketing and copywriting writing, direct response, is how I make my living now.
[22:40] <tyche> I think, basically, you and I are saying the same things.  Find what works, use it, then put it out for others to use, modify, use as a generic template, etc.
[22:41] <aflake> THe guidelines should be those embraced by the ubuntu philosophy, or it is dead duck to others.
[22:41] <learning> I mean, just saying have a release party, install fest, spread the news, 
[22:41] <learning> is not enough
[22:41] <tyche> Yes, that goes without saying.  Or should I say that it was the primary premis.
[22:41] <learning> I mean what about the people who are not expart
[22:42] <aflake> No that is not enough. Follow up and demos are critical.
[22:42] <learning> yes yes aflake
[22:42] <aflake> No one is born an expert, I have used Linux for all of 3 months!
[22:42] <tyche> That's where the template comes in handy.  It acts as a guide that one can use or modify to suit the situation.
[22:42] <learning> we failed to get into the first step
[22:42] <aflake> simplicity will always rule
[22:43] <learning> for the past one year we managed to have only one release party
[22:43] <tyche> That, too, is true
[22:43] <learning> humm, not sure about that
[22:43] <aflake> There are many venues to expose people and businesses to ubuntu, use them at a grass roots level and grow from that foundation
[22:43] <tyche> learning: That's a start.  it takes time to build up a team.
[22:44] <learning> aflake: what we see as a marketing effort it seems to easy, but when it is too be done we face problem
[22:44] <learning> and there is no way to get help
[22:44] <learning> no guideline, opinions
[22:44] <learning> marketing is just not about spreading the news, its also an art of convincing other people what you believe
[22:45] <learning> make them believe
[22:45] <tyche> At this point, without a strong Marketing Team to act as a resource, your best bet is to talk to teams that have had successes, and find out answers there.
[22:45] <learning> then they will buy your product
[22:45] <aflake> Write your own guidelines for each local, as long as they embrace the basic philosophy then who cares. Make it workable.
[22:45] <learning> humm aflake that is a problem, 'Make' it workable is not easy
[22:46] <aflake> Marketing is easy unless you choose to make it hard.
[22:46] <learning> perhaps we are not cut out for it may be the situation is not favourable
[22:46] <aflake> Work on the LoCo level first, grow from there
[22:46] <learning> yes I am on the loco team aflake
[22:46] <learning> I am the second person in charge
[22:47] <aflake> Everything starts at home, if each person here got 1 convert a week, how large would this place be in a year?
[22:47] <learning> it will be huge amount undoubtedly
[22:48] <aflake> Success breeds success, confusion leads to even more. 
[22:48] <learning> however we did a simple survery,
[22:48] <learning> not much to say
[22:48] <learning> yes aflake
[22:48] <learning> we tried, are trying, and will keep trying
[22:49] <aflake> surveys are good for the takers but in reality mean little, the questions are always based on what if's, instead market with what is!
[22:49] <learning> ahh.. humm
[22:49] <learning> listening
[22:49] <aflake> This is what I do for a living, not as a hobby or sideline, if I can help let me know.
[22:50] <learning> ok then, what I have been in trouble is that we might convince people initially how to follow it up?
[22:50] <aflake> I am a member of the Florida Loco, just joined this week too. ANd I am a testement to linux and ubuntu.
[22:51] <learning> ok since you are a marketing person give me some tips?
[22:52] <aflake> You have your web presence, use it. Make calls if they take a cd, meet at Starbucks for coffee, anything to help you press the palm and make eye contact. Try direct mail if you get their address. Have an article written in a newspaper.
[22:53] <aflake> Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, SCORE< Chambers of Commerce, Business courses at college level, 4h's, and the list goes on...
[22:53] <learning> 1) their are some experts in the community who have profound knowledge but they prefer remaining in backdrop
[22:53] <learning> we need to bring them out
[22:53] <aflake> Let them be the hidden resources and the knowledge bank then.
[22:54] <aflake> No first you must get attention and be noticed as valuable, then bring them out.
[22:54] <learning> humm yes
[22:54] <aflake> DO not scare people away with techno-jargon... leada them in and step by step educate them.
[22:55] <learning> yes of course
[22:55] <aflake> All marketing is a step by step process.
[22:55] <learning> we actually are not stuck in the first stage
[22:55] <learning> its the second stage we are stuck
[22:55] <learning> following up is a problem for us
[22:56] <aflake> The world is there, and I am working on several individuals here where I live now. And I "ain't no guru" either.
[22:56] <learning> like we get formal understanding with organizations that they will cooperate with us
[22:56] <learning> but when we need their support they back of
[22:57] <learning> then I have seen people being interested a lot, but their interest just dies down after a while
[22:57] <aflake> Get email addys, snail mail address, etc, and follow up with a simple email or letter. If they take a cd call and ask how they liked it and if they have any questions. It is up to  you to follow up.
[22:57] <learning> we have our forum, our channels
[22:57] <learning> but it does not help much
[22:57] <learning> only the loco members are there
[22:57] <aflake> If others back off then call them on it in irc or whaqt ever. Often praise does wonders too.
[22:57] <learning> :)
[22:57] <learning> yes,
[22:58] <learning> I wish you could understand Bengali
[22:58] <learning> then I could have shown the works we are doing
[22:58] <learning> then you could have understand what it is.
[22:58] <aflake> Find out why it isn't helping much. Exactly why too. A nebulous it isn't helping much is not worth much. Clarity of purpose is required.
[22:58] <learning> people are interested, no doubt about it
[22:59] <learning> aflake: its tough to have understanding why its not working
[23:00] <aflake> THen use that interest. Have a question and answer night, then if you do not know the answers promise to get back to them at a later date. A perfect time for names and numbers too!
[23:00] <learning> for example "A" have given us promise to hold a workshop on next saturday, we informed all our members, and we are verge of announcing it to the mass
[23:00] <learning> then "A" calls and says we are sorry we wont be available for next 3 months
[23:00] <aflake> THen you are stuck at that point, but what was plan B?
[23:01] <learning> we had similar experience in all side
[23:01] <learning> plan B also failed
[23:01] <learning> plan C too
[23:01] <learning> it seems luck is not favouring
[23:01] <aflake> than play ball in the parking lot and turn it into a joke. But do not let it drop!
[23:02] <learning> ?
[23:02] <learning> have I angered you any way?
[23:02] <learning> we were working on three Universities at a time
[23:03] <aflake> never let a failure cause a failure, if the people are there do something or go somewhere, but you have them at that time so use what you can to make it a success.
[23:03] <learning> and another ISP to sponsor us
[23:03] <aflake> No one has angered me! 
[23:03] <learning> ohh ok
[23:03] <learning> they just backed out at a time
[23:04] <learning> now we are stuck with nothing
[23:04] <aflake> You may be trying to have events that aqre too large at first. Remember, keep it simple and if that means small then it means small. 5 alone would be great if 3 joined up!
[23:04] <learning> yes
[23:04] <learning> I know
[23:04] <aflake> actually if only 1 did, a 20% success ratio is wonderful
[23:05] <learning> but it does not take much to give us an auditorium for 3 hour for one day
[23:05] <learning> and we would have done the rest
[23:05] <learning> and in the sponsor's case we wanted a room
[23:05] <aflake> So meet for coffee and donuts, anything! Just meet people and start small. THe world's largest marketing plan starts with an individual customer.
[23:06] <learning> BTW versity auditorium is open for all
[23:06] <learning> humm yes,
[23:06] <learning> it is going on
[23:06] <learning> there is no doubt about
[23:06] <learning> *it
[23:06] <aflake> You do not need or want large gatherings at first. You want to provide the ubuntu philosophy up close and personal.
[23:06] <learning> we are working on individual level, not stopping on that
[23:07] <learning> there are lots of people just waiting to grab a chance
[23:07] <aflake> then work with 5 individuals at once, then 10, then 15. Again if everyone here did that what would happen.
[23:07] <learning> we cant just get to all of them personally
[23:08] <aflake> develop the material you need. A good brochure, and FAQ paper, etc, and hand them out.
[23:08] <learning> I know you are saying about chain reaction
[23:08] <learning> we are doing that
[23:08] <learning> aflake: I think I failed to make you understand what I need
[23:08] <aflake> \learn to empower others to help you. that is what real marketing is, generate interest and they will seek you out.
[23:09] <learning> people are aware about linux
[23:09] <aflake> what do you need exactly learning.
[23:09] <learning> many are enthusiast about it, but they are not aware of how to help other
[23:09] <learning> make our presence be hard
[23:09] <aflake> then start a training class to teach them how.
[23:09] <learning> *heard
[23:10] <learning> he he
[23:10] <aflake> start small and soon many will hear if the experience was fun
[23:10] <learning> are you serious?
[23:10] <learning> where we start...
[23:10] <learning> we can start but following up is a problem
[23:10] <aflake> yep, as a heart attack. Find someone that likes linux and is personable, use them
[23:11] <learning> we are using
[23:11] <learning> :)
[23:11] <aflake> if you can't follow up don't start, that will leave a bad impression on others.
[23:11] <learning> ohh ok
[23:11] <learning> I mean people are there to help,
[23:11] <learning> some helps, but fades away
[23:12] <aflake> only work with the number you can handle, time and success will let growth take place.
[23:12] <learning> I am not saying that volunteers are to be there always
[23:12] <learning> but if they left then some other people should come into their position
[23:12] <learning> that is a lacking
[23:12] <aflake> if you hav a solid group of 3 then you can educate several at a time
[23:13] <learning> you give much of a time after one person, then they left
[23:13] <learning> its hard really
[23:13] <aflake> think small scale at first!
[23:13] <aflake> then do it alone and work with 3, but slowly the help will be there and probably from those you took the time to help first.
[23:14] <learning> ok
[23:14] <learning> :)
[23:15] <aflake> this isn't rocket science, we aren't going to the moon, we just want to get it off the launchpad for now!
[23:15] <aflake> the moon comes later!
[23:15] <learning> L)
[23:15] <learning> yes hopefully
[23:16] <learning> we are working, just need some more active guys
[23:16] <learning> there are only three people active
[23:16] <aflake> if every LoCo did it's thing and got 2 new members a month the word of mouth would be wonderful, if the experience was fun.
[23:16] <aflake> if I can help let me know. 
[23:16] <learning> ohh ok I will inform you :)
[23:17] <learning> but not about online help though ;)
[23:17] <learning> we need people in person
[23:17] <aflake> case studies, press releases, ads with your local Chambers and businsess, etc... use them all
[23:17] <learning> humm explain this bit please
[23:17] <learning> how to make sponsors interested
[23:18] <learning> (not in terms of money but in terms of facilities- place, time, logistics)
[23:18] <aflake> news item work, and a well written press release appears to be news. Businesses are always looking for a better way, people are always curious, use those traits to your benefit.
[23:19] <learning> if we can make organizers interested we can surely stirve
[23:19] <learning> last release party attracted 65 people with 5 volunteers
[23:19] <aflake> if you must use a small meeting room in a church or library then use it. 5 small meetinga are better than 1 large one that never happened.
[23:20] <learning> so what we need is space and opportunity
[23:20] <learning> ahh yes
[23:20] <aflake> remember small and spread out over time will probably be more efficent than 1 big bash
[23:20] <learning> yes
[23:20] <learning> we are trying actually
[23:20] <learning> coffee house used to be an option
[23:21] <aflake> Let Microsoft have the parties, they can afford it. we however must use brains and not brawn
[23:21] <learning> but we went away from it
[23:21] <learning> it proved to be costly (we cant invite people in a coffee house then not offer them something)
[23:22] <aflake> linux and ubuntu especially are meant to be personal, so use that idea in yur marketing. Do not try to play the big boy player, we can't and win.
[23:22] <learning> yes sadly we got that
[23:22] <aflake> use a library meeting room then. 
[23:22] <learning> not available sorry
[23:22] <learning> we tried them all
[23:23] <learning> uni library
[23:23] <aflake> how about a FIrestation, I used one Monday to talk to 4 here about ubuntu!
[23:23] <learning> public library
[23:23] <learning> ahh :|
[23:23] <learning> I am sorry to say those are not possible
[23:23] <aflake> do you mean to tell me there is not one single room available where you are?
[23:23] <learning> our community is not like that
[23:24] <aflake> a house, a bar, any where?
[23:24] <aflake> a town square,?
[23:24] <learning> we dont have it
[23:24] <aflake> street corner?
[23:24] <learning> if we want it it costs us
[23:24] <learning> we have street corners
[23:25] <learning> we are there
[23:25] <aflake> let me think on this then. Somewthing is possible I know.
[23:25] <learning> ok
[23:25] <aflake> where exactly are you?
[23:25] <learning> I give you a seneareo
[23:25] <learning> In Bangladesh
[23:26] <aflake> I know htere are Christian curches there approach them
[23:26] <aflake> churches I mean
[23:26] <learning> ok I have no problem
[23:26] <learning> any free places is fine with me
[23:26] <aflake> give the police free lessons for their assistance, that worked in Italy when I was there
[23:26] <learning> :(
[23:26] <learning> police will arrest us
[23:27] <learning> seriously
[23:27] <aflake> then forget that!
[23:27] <aflake> but something is available because you are here now
[23:27] <learning> I once crossed under there umbrella by mistake they charged me with obstruction of public service
[23:28] <learning> I am at my house
[23:28] <aflake> then do it there but keep it small of course
[23:28] <learning> privet home are available I can host in my house
[23:28] <learning> but people wont come
[23:28] <aflake> then what are you waiting for, and that is the ultimate in personal
[23:28] <learning> people are not so keen about going an strangers house
[23:28] <aflake> would 3 come?
[23:29] <learning> yes
[23:29] <aflake> how about a friend of a friend?
[23:29] <aflake> small is better than none
[23:29] <learning> yes we are doing that
[23:29] <learning> every month
[23:29] <learning> but it has been long doing like that
[23:29] <aflake> then you are doing all you can for the present. Work on the conversion ratios now, and follow up!
[23:29] <learning> no visible impact about it
[23:30] <aflake> have you followed up?
[23:30] <learning> yes several time
[23:30] <learning> some success some failure
[23:30] <learning> but not in a large schale
[23:30] <aflake> then start over with a new group. Don't wste time on everyone, go with the numbers
[23:30] <learning> I am not saying that 100s of people will come
[23:30] <learning> and become volunteers
[23:31] <learning> but what we expect atleast one full time volunteer will join everymonth
[23:31] <aflake> in marketing a low success rate is ok
[23:31] <learning> ok
[23:32] <aflake> do not make expectatipns on others. why apply the pressure, instead make it enjoyable for all.
[23:32] <learning> ahh it is enjoyable
[23:32] <aflake> pleasure gets more followers than pain
[23:32] <learning> not sure whether think of it
[23:32] <aflake> I had rather eat cnady than go to the Doctor
[23:33] <learning> I mean its a pleasure for me (but not sure whether for the recipients)
[23:33] <learning> :)
[23:33] <learning> true
[23:33] <aflake> then make it so, lete them play  and experience ubuntu first hand
[23:33] <aflake> but remember it isn't for everybody, yet...
[23:34] <learning> humm yes
[23:34] <aflake> but the first steps must always be baby steps
[23:34] <learning> one major problem we have is poor internet service
[23:34] <learning> that is why most people cant enjoy it much
[23:35] <learning> with 10KBs line its not possible to download repo
[23:35] <learning> or cds
[23:35] <aflake> then play chess and other games too, but get them on the comuter as soon as possible
[23:35] <learning> :)
[23:35] <learning> okk
[23:35] <aflake> download evy gnome game and have fun!
[23:35] <learning> :)
[23:36] <aflake> just do something that is enjoyable
[23:36] <learning> humm yes
[23:36] <aflake> I am a writer, I only use the interent for research, etc. My life is off-line and still have fun
[23:37] <learning> humm yes
[23:37] <learning> one problem is the codec problem
[23:37] <learning> most dont have internet at all
[23:38] <aflake> that is al problem I can't answer!
[23:38] <learning> so they cant play music or video (which people do when there is no internet)
[23:38] <learning> he he no need aflake
[23:38] <learning> its a problem we have to accept
[23:38] <learning> we cant do anything about it
[23:39] <aflake> I am a writer/marketer, not a techno-geek
[23:39] <tyche> If you have one person that does have a connection, and can burn disks, put the codecs on that.
[23:39] <learning> just can wish the world of music will follow into using open format soon
[23:39] <aflake> there, the answer is available
[23:39] <learning> :P
[23:39] <learning> yes I can do that
[23:40] <learning> but I was not thinking on terms of myself only
[23:40] <learning> not about the people I help
[23:40] <aflake> the more people interested the sooner it will happen
[23:40] <tyche> Debs can be installed using gdebi, and that way they don't break the system.
[23:40] <learning> but hundreds other who receives cds on shipit
[23:40] <learning> I dont know them so cant help them
[23:41] <learning> ok tyche
[23:41] <learning> have heard about it
[23:41] <tyche> Help the people you can.  It will expand in time.
[23:41] <learning> but have no personal experience
[23:41] <aflake> so all of you present will learn together
[23:42] <aflake> lack of knowledge is no excuse
[23:42] <aflake> get it
[23:42] <aflake> any one else have any ideas?
[23:42] <aflake> on ubuntu marketing?
[23:43] <aflake> figure I had qualify that question
[23:44] <aflake> time to go I guess. Sorry to have taken so much time. 
[23:47] <learning> tyche:  can you tell me more about gdebi?
[23:47] <learning> I only heard what you have told me,,
[23:47] <learning> nothing furthur
[23:48] <tyche> gdebi is a program that uses the apt or apt-get back end to install .deb files.  Because it uses the apt structure, it registers the installation with apt, so that updates can continue normally.
[23:48] <learning> gdebi is not installed by default (but gdebi-core is, so I think that is not a problem)
[23:48] <tyche> It should be on the LiveCD.
[23:48] <learning> ok
[23:49] <learning> then I burn the codecs (or other apps package) into the cds
[23:49] <learning> how I install?
[23:49] <tyche> The .debs are set up to collect any dependencies that might be necessary.  So you might want to test them by installing yourself to see what the dependencies are.
[23:50] <learning> humm yes
[23:50] <tyche> Once you have gdebi on the system, simply select the file that you want to install, and gdebi will check to see if everything is available.  If so, then you click "Install" and it will ask for your password, and install it.
[23:51] <learning> humm but it happens by default in ubuntu kubuntu
[23:51] <learning> because we have gdebi-core
[23:52] <learning> so why need to have gdebi?
[23:52] <learning> and install with care?
[23:52] <tyche> gdebi is what the program is called, or the command that is used.  Hold on a sec, I want to check something.
[23:53] <learning> oh ok
[23:55] <tyche> OK, I just brought up Synaptic, and checked out the dependencies for gdebi.  One of them is gdebi-core.  So, in other words, gdebi is the front end for gdebi core.  It might be that gdebi-core is used by apt and/or Synaptic as part of the installation process.  But for single purpose, one would use the gdebi front end, instead.
[23:56] <tyche> The front end does the registration process that the core lacks.
[23:57] <learning> ok got it
[23:57] <learning> :)
[23:57] <learning> thanks for explaining so easily ;0
[23:57] <tyche> I hope I'm explaining them well enough for you.
[23:57] <learning> yes no problem
[23:57] <tyche> Believe me, I'm not a tech, but I do pick some stuff up along the way.
[23:58] <learning> ok
[23:58] <learning> I wish I could say that about myself
[23:58] <learning> i pick up some stuff leave half of them :S
[23:59] <tyche> I don't pick up everything.  And realize that I've been using Ubuntu since the first release came out, and FedoraCore and RedHat before that.  and even earlier, System V Release 4 UNIX at a job.
[23:59] <tyche> So, I've been exposed to it for a while.