[00:03] Odd-rationale, you can see that in your branch, there is only a data file (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~odd-rationale/5-a-day-data/main/files) [00:04] while here, there is a team file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/5-a-day-data/main/files [00:57] nellery: sorry. i went to eat dinner... [00:58] no problem [00:59] i'm using 5-a-day 0.47 and in --help, i dont see --add-team... hmmm [01:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day [01:01] that might help [01:01] there's a section on teams [01:01] that's what i was reading... [01:03] maybe i could just upload my team file... do you know how to do that? [01:03] * Odd-rationale is lazy to look it up... ;) [01:51] Hello, i wanna patch bugs [01:51] where do i start [01:54] m_newton: take a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [01:54] m_newton, this channel focuses more on the triaging of bugs. #ubuntu-motu would be the best place to start [01:55] thanks [02:01] m_newton, nevertheless, for you to patch bugs you have to find them. This is, in this case, the ideal place [02:24] ls [02:24] oops [02:24] are there any bugsquad mailing list admins around? [02:26] chuckf, doesn't look like it [02:27] oh well [02:39] HI all [02:47] hi anakron [02:47] and... I've got to run :) [02:48] :O [02:48] ok [02:48] bye [02:49] chuckf: I'm one [02:50] Hi Brian [02:51] ill translate the interview with some help of ubuntu-bugsquad [02:51] :-) [02:52] That's great! I saw [02:52] Are you doing the audio only or the video one? [02:52] Video One? [02:52] :O can be added some subtitles [02:52] ....mmmm [02:52] :-) [02:52] the audio [02:53] BUt im thinking to create a team that could transcribe and the translate it [02:53] That'd be great! [02:53] I'm off for dinner [02:54] ok [03:21] Hello. I wish to join and help out with the ubuntu-bug team. [03:27] hello st33med, welcome [03:27] please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [03:28] kayd [03:28] this will give you an idea of what to do, and we are always here to help [03:28] *kays [03:28] Alright, thank you [03:28] you are welcome [03:33] About the Duplicate message... How would I have "quick" access to that message. === persia_ is now known as persia [04:35] chuckf: in slide 4 more often than not it is "Help -> Report a Problem" vs Bug [04:36] chuckf: It looks great though! Thanks for writing it up [04:39] brian, thanks for the info [04:49] bdmurray, I just uploaded a new version with that correction in it [05:35] Hey guys. [05:35] I am trying to get the knack of bug triaging [05:35] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/151077 [05:35] Launchpad bug 151077 in ubuntu "Cant controle the speed of the mouse" [Undecided,New] [05:35] Would this be a bug that has to do with xorg? [05:35] Some times it is hard to tell if something is even really a bug. [05:36] I appreciate any heads up anyone can offer or any tips in general for how to triage well. [05:36] * Hobbsee notes that bug is substantially lacking in information. [05:36] * Hobbsee notes it's probably also pebkac. [05:37] What's pebkac? [05:37] google it. [05:37] I should probably talk to someone else. [05:37] problem exists between keyboard and chair [05:37] also, i'd wonder if you need to restart X for the changes to take effect, which i'll bet this user hasn't. [05:37] i'm guessing he is adjusting settings in gnome-mouse-properties... [05:38] i don't know whether you need to restart X for that. but you might... [05:38] * Hobbsee goes back to chairing the meeting. [05:38] I just picked this one some what randomly, what should be done with a bug report like this though? I don't think that pebkac is one of the options is it? :) [05:39] ask for more information? [05:39] just give it you're best shot. leave it alone if you are totally blank... [05:39] a problem that ancient... he probably won't check up on it... ;) [05:40] oh, wow, nice top search bar [05:40] * Hobbsee would also consider making it a launchpad question [05:41] So you add a message to it that says we would like more information? Things like which version of Ubuntu and other such information? [05:41] yes, you could do that. [05:42] Hey, ho do you guys add those automated messages to incomplete or invalid bugs? [05:42] *how [05:42] st33med: it's a greasemonkey script. i've forgotten the name though [05:42] emma, you would want to ask if he has also restarted X yet [05:42] Ah [05:43] try googling launchpad autoreply greasemonkey script or something? [05:43] * Hobbsee can't, due to the aforementioned meeting. [05:43] st33med: okay. I will do that, as well as recommending that he include more information like uname ? [05:43] how would uname be helpful? [05:43] emma, you can also do that if you want. [05:43] Having done that, then does that qualify as having 'triaged' this bug? [05:43] But.. [05:43] wrt to 151077, it's probably a dupe based on when it was filed [05:43] i think thats about the same time that the WSJ guy complained about that [05:43] emma: no. it's incomplete, as it requires more information from the reporter. [05:43] Hobbsee, Google = Friend :D [05:43] but ask for more info [05:44] st33med: indeed. [05:44] pwnguin: Thanks I'm here to try to learn how to do this well. I would like to be triaging. [05:44] But, I am tired, therefore, I must pay my friend a visit some other time [05:44] night [05:45] so we need more info before we can even assign a package. which version of ubuntu (or kubuntu). whether they have gsynaptics installed, so on [05:45] So triaging this bug will depend upon hearing back from them? [05:46] it should [05:46] i get the feeling some people don't follow up [05:46] I think that's very very likely. [05:46] well, it's partly triaged. [05:46] and it'll autoclose, if you leave it at incomplete, and the guy doesn't respond. [05:47] as for fully triaging, not really, as someone else will have to go back and triage it again, if the guy does respond. [05:47] pwnguin: speaking as pretty much an ordinary user, I think the expectation is that once you report the bug at all you've done your thing and thats it. [05:47] well, time to re-educate! [05:47] indeed [05:47] personal service! [05:48] the challenge i see isn't so much getting people to respond, but getting the person who asked for more info to make a decision =( [05:49] im guilty of it myself on occasion [05:49] (Okay so keeping in mind that I just kind of grabbed this one at random so it's just an example) For the purposes of this GBJ, would sending him a message asking him for the relevant useful additional information, count as being triaged enough to add that to the 5-a-day thingy? [05:49] emma, no, not really (as counting in as triaged) [05:49] it is, nevertheless, a necessary step [05:49] for the purposes of 5-a-day, i'd say yes. [05:50] as to it being fully triaged, no. [05:50] i'd always assumed 5-a-day was "if you touch a bug" [05:50] eww. i don;t like touchin bugs.... [05:50] No I know it must not be fully triaged. I think fully triaged sort of means, it is now a fully beautiful bug report such as one of you in here would have written in the first place, sitting in the correct package. [05:50] yes? [05:51] er, yes. i think so [05:51] reproducible, undestandable, nice backtrace, etc, yes [05:51] i didnt thing fully triaged was really something just anyone can do [05:51] But I (and a lot of us who are trying to learn for this Global Bug Jam) don't know a lot about this yet so I'm looking for a better idea of what we are to do. [05:51] s/undes/unders/ [05:52] triage includes an importance, which i find a bit silly. [05:52] pwnguin: so it sounds like it's a little bit subjective. [05:52] well, i think so [05:52] Sending the guy a message that asks him for the right information will be a step in the right direction though. [05:52] yse [05:53] We just do what we can do then. [05:53] he should get emailed if you add a comment anyways... [05:53] Right that's what i meant by sending a message. [05:53] ask for some info, click the "subscribe me" check box, and set the status to "incomplete" with a note that the status will change when the info is provided [05:53] unfortunately, it is always a bit subjective. A bug is triaged when all necessary data needed to understand the issue, reproduce it, etc is available [05:54] the crux is " all necessary data" [05:54] Yes. [05:54] So that could be hardly anything or a great deal. [05:54] Could you give me right now a comprehensive list of general information that everyone should include in every bug report? [05:54] darn it, lost my international keyboard... all hail ev-dev [05:55] The uname info? What else? [05:55] emma, it varies with the issue. A good approach is the wiki (hold on, I will get the link) [05:55] Thank you. [05:55] emma: different packages have different needs =/ [05:55] x related ones require xorg logs and conf files [05:55] kernel has its own list [05:55] Okay that makes sense. [05:56] I have an idea if it does not already exist. [05:56] Could one of you experts make a page that has the main (most common) packages, and then beneath each package the type of information that is required at minimum for that package? [05:57] i think hggdh is looking for that [05:57] ahha okay. :) [05:57] see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage [05:57] and [05:57] didn't know if that would already exist. [05:57] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase [05:57] personally, i pick a few packages i care about and subscribe all their bugs [05:57] some packages have special requirements/requests [05:58] im also not a very typical ubuntu-bugs person ;) [05:58] pwnguin: fwe are? [05:58] either way works -- I usually restrict myself to Evolution [05:58] I see, so sort of concentrating on a certain package . [05:59] or groups of them, yes [05:59] I hope you all don't mind my series of questions, I'm quite new and I'm trying to learn to help my friends too. [05:59] my perception is that most people work on whatever, just because there's too many packages versus people [05:59] sometimes you have bad experiences with some maintainers (I had mine) -- but, instead of quitting, you can just leave the -- for you -- problematic packages (as I did) [05:59] at least I am still trying to help [06:00] cool. [06:00] yes that is good of you. I respect people who have a bad experience with some aspect of the community and never the less keep their spirit and try to do good things. [06:00] entirety of kde is a fun playground :) [06:00] sometimes, you had some, huh, not so nice exchanges with other people. This is also part of the game [06:00] Right Hobbsee? [06:01] and I agree with Hobbsee KDE is a nice playground right now [06:01] heh. one of the neuros devs i know is upset with kde in ubuntu [06:01] emma: your dealings with the irc are entirely orthagonal to this, and as the irc team still has juristiction over this channel, we'd prefer for you to stay on topic. [06:01] Not familiar enough with KDE since I almost exclusively use Ubuntu so far. [06:01] Hobbsee: No idea what you are talking about. [06:02] emma: and FYI, don't try to bait me. it won't work. [06:02] this just got very wierd [06:02] Hobbsee, perhaps you were talking about me, not emma? [06:02] pwnguin: no kidding. [06:02] hggdh: nope [06:02] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/252228 <-- funniest bug i heard in a long time! [06:02] Launchpad bug 252228 in ubuntu "Changing volume changes gnome theme (?)" [Undecided,New] [06:03] :0 [06:03] Odd-rationale: that doesn't even seem possible. [06:03] sure it is. [06:03] if you manage to crash gnome-session-thingo, it'll change your theme. [06:04] might have some trace in ~/.xsession-errors [06:05] renaming a log file is always a dangerous action [06:06] doesn't xorg create a new log file everytime it starts anyways? [06:06] every time it starts, yes [06:06] but in this case it was not restarted. I do not know how the code deals with trying to write to a file that does not exist anymore [06:07] errr... [06:07] * hggdh stands in attention [06:07] note to self: don't run gnome-session when it's already in a session [06:07] :-) [06:07] Hobbsee: It's not idempotent? :) [06:07] perhaps isopotent? [06:08] * Hobbsee has no idea what that is? [06:09] Hobbsee: what happens? [06:09] RAOF: ah right. partially [06:09] idempotent == doesn't change states [06:09] like asking the ATM how much money you have [06:09] Odd-rationale: try it. it doesn't seem to do anything particularly devastating. but it's weird. [06:10] oh, and don't ctrl+c it afterwards! [06:10] Hobbsee, just start another gnome-session? [06:10] oh, adn close firefox first. [06:10] Hobbsee: i was hoping you wouldn't say that... you know my curiousity is piqued... [06:10] yeah [06:10] ehe [06:10] oh boy [06:11] weird [06:11] I even got sound back! [06:11] and nautilus crashed... [06:11] haha [06:11] like i say...it seems...interesting [06:11] but, then, now that I have sound again... [06:12] just type gnome-session in a gnome-terminal? [06:12] yep [06:12] [odd-rationale@evo ~]$ gnome-session [06:12] gnome-session: you're already running a session manager [06:12] [odd-rationale@evo ~]$ [06:13] :/ [06:13] not very interesting to me... [06:13] Odd-rationale: would you be running metacity? [06:13] yep [06:13] hggdh: are you? [06:13] * Hobbsee wonders if it's a compiz / metacity thing. [06:14] perhaps it depends on what version of Ubuntu you are running. On mine (Intrepid with metacity) I have two gnome-sessions, one running and one defunct metacity [06:14] I do not run compiz [06:15] very strange. [06:15] is intrepid gnome 2.23 ? [06:15] oh well. bugs! [06:15] the new metacity now seems to be a zombie [06:15] Odd-rationale: .6. yes [06:15] Odd-rationale, yes [06:15] :) [06:16] btw -- anyone running Intrepid here? [06:16] bad news on keyboard mapping right now... [06:17] yes [06:17] there's a solution for it, though [06:17] oh, and you need to install -evdev if you don't have it [06:17] Hobbsee: well, i'm on arch. so that might be it... [06:17] pwnguin: No, 'x' is idempotent <=> x^2 = 1 :P [06:18] Eeep. I fail! [06:18] Idempotent <=> x^2 = x [06:18] uh [06:18] RAOF: offtopic, surely? :) [06:18] Where here, we have 'gnome-session' as 'x' and the operation of running 'x' is multiplication :) [06:18] the formal definition of idempotent is that multiple applications of the same operation yield the same result [06:19] pwnguin: Right. x^2 = x. I was thinking involution. [06:19] Also, somewhat offtopic, yes. [06:19] the end result is the same state :{ [06:19] pwnguin: Only if it has already been run, though. [06:19] what? [06:19] But everyone needs to know more maths! [06:20] hey, wha? [06:20] more math is good [06:20] sandisk apparently has discontinued their 8gb usb sticks ;( [06:20] but logic helps too [06:20] pwnguin: gnome-session is idempotent with respect to the operation 'running' iff running gnome-session twice yields the same state as running gnome-session once. [06:21] Hobbsee: To replace them with 16gb usb sticks? [06:21] closer [06:21] RAOF: no - it appears they're only making 4gb ones now. [06:21] RAOF: you need for all [06:21] or at least, in teh titanium. [06:21] if it runs a third time and you get two sesssions [06:21] fail [06:21] pwnguin: But then running it twice doesn't result in the same state as running it once :P [06:22] good morning [06:22] x^2 = x <=> x^n = x :P [06:22] hey dholbach [06:22] we'll just leave that inductive reasoning on the table [06:22] hi Hobbsee [06:22] Bah. x^2 = x => x^n = x, but not the converse. [06:22] cheers, dholbach [06:23] hiya hggdh :) [06:23] Howdy dholbach. Welcome to #ubuntu-mathematics. [06:23] running gnome session n times results in 1 long lived gnome-session, for all x greater than 0 [06:23] and some zombies [06:23] WAAH! [06:23] at least on Intrepid [06:23] pwnguin: Right. Which is implied by 'running gnome session twice results in the same state as running gnome-session once' ;) [06:24] so the two set have the same cardinality [06:24] i worry about applying inductive reasoning to parallel processes [06:25] pwnguin: Right. My 'run' operation assumes non-parallelness. [06:25] The word for which I know, but can't seem to place. [06:25] hi RAOF :) [06:25] serialized [06:25] Possibly serialness. Yes. [06:25] Mmm. Cereal. === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [06:26] * RAOF returns to the geometry of lines in 3-space. [06:26] at any rate, in the real world, the pid allocator has changed [06:27] emma: how goes the triaging? [06:28] hi folks. newbie here. trying to triage my first bug(255857). verified that it has all the required information, easily reproduced it, subscribed to the bug, commented and changed the status to confirmed. what happens next? [06:28] Still looking for one to dive into. [06:28] what was wrong with the last one? [06:28] bug 255857 [06:28] Launchpad bug 255857 in rhythmbox "[hardy] Rhythmbox won't play ogg streams stating "internal stream error"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255857 [06:28] It looked like you might have said that one could not be triaged sufficiently to count. [06:29] schakrava: looks good to me. wait, and go on to another bug? [06:29] * pwnguin shakes his fist at dholbach! [06:29] look what you've done [06:29] thanks hobbsee === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [06:30] interesting. Just ran a search no synaptic for evdev, and got pretty much all the -dev packages [06:30] please network-manager, use *my* wlan, it is better for you! GAH! [06:31] yes, and also got the xserver-xorg-input-evdev. But still, why the hits on -dev? [06:31] dholbach: if i took a New bug, discovered it needed information, and did the right things asking for a reply, would that be 5-a-day worthy? [06:32] pwnguin, to my understanding, yes [06:33] pwnguin: absolutely - the 5-a-day docs speak of "if you do a bug ..." - that's generally "making a bug better" [06:33] emma: see, it does count! [06:33] * Hobbsee makes all the bugs better by marking them invalid. [06:33] LOL [06:34] Hobbsee: you should start the bug assassination squad [06:34] Hobbsee: I'm not sure the large quantity of bugsquad members would agree with you on that. :) [06:34] pwnguin: now that sounds like fun. [06:34] dholbach: okay wonderful! [06:34] dholbach: oh well. i'm making the bugs 'better'. like you said. [06:34] :P [06:34] :-) [06:34] kills bugs in their sleep before they have a chance to infect the software [06:34] with defects! [06:34] exactly. [06:34] did you guys see bdmurray's and ogasawara's bug jam bingo? [06:34] i did not. [06:34] dholbach: I was not sure if that is what it meant or if it meant having a 100 percent triaged bug in a final condition such as you might have it if you had filed it yourself. (by yourself here I mean literally you, dholbac). [06:35] Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day [06:35] dholbach: I didn't want to count the bug unless I knew the proper standard. [06:35] Okay thank you. [06:36] so there's a lot of ways to make a bug more telling, more insightful [06:36] Hobbsee: ^ better? :) [06:36] emma, the ideal state for a bug is correctly identified and resolved. Asking for needed data is a step in that direction [06:36] dholbach: no :P [06:36] heh, the ideal state is "fix released" [06:37] if a fix is warranted, yes [06:37] oh, i guess you said that [06:37] darn it, where is my international keyboard? :-/ [06:38] 'fisty':'N32', [06:38] 'gusty':'N33', [06:38] 'harty':'N34', [06:39] harty?? [06:39] i like fisty [06:39] oh, sorry [06:39] too late for meself, me guess [06:39] i actually thought it has gusty at first... [06:44] pwnguin: you've been talking to jdub, i take it? [06:47] schakrava, re. bug 255857, what version of Ubuntu/rythmbox are you running? [06:47] Launchpad bug 255857 in rhythmbox "[hardy] Rhythmbox won't play ogg streams stating "internal stream error"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255857 [06:48] pwnguin: ? [06:48] Hobbsee: that came from the bingo generator [06:50] hggdh: same as the reporter, i think. ubuntu: 8.04 and rhythmbox 0.11.5 [06:52] 8.04.1 to be precise [06:52] schakrava, can you please state this in the bug (for completeness) [06:53] this will help the maintainers [06:54] what times the the bug jam officially start? [06:54] since I do not do sound, I cannot mark it as triaged (I do not know what else would be needed for rythmbox). Hell, I do not even have sound right now... [06:56] done, added comments. thanks for helping [06:57] so someone will automatically pick it up and fix the code eventually? [06:57] schakrava, thank you for helping triage them bugs. Your help is appreciated [06:57] can someone advice whether I should close this bug as Fix Released and how to answer the OP's question? Bug 119927 [06:57] Launchpad bug 119927 in wxmaxima "wxmaxima cursor changes and freezes" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119927 [06:58] schakrava, I expect someone in bug-control, or the maintainer, will pick it up. As I said, I do not want to mark it triaged due to lack of knowledge on sound issues [06:59] ok. sounds good. just making sure since i am a total newbie [07:00] tuxmaniac, it sounds more like -- now -- invalid. We do not know what fixed it, nor if it was indeed a code fix [07:00] How do upstream project get notified? [07:01] Odd-rationale, it is usually our responsibility to open a bug upstream [07:02] tuxmaniac, for the response... I guess the best is to state we depend on helpers to look at bugs and work on them. [07:02] schakrava, welcome, and thanks for helping [07:03] hggdh: so setting the padkage to gnome-desktop or kde4base is not enough... too bad... :( [07:03] Odd-rationale, :-D indeed [07:05] Odd-rationale, please keep in mind that not all use launchpad... so upstream does in fact means "up"... and it is part of our work to let "up" know of an issue [07:05] * hggdh also got hit by that [07:05] thanks hggdh [07:05] hggdh: so i have to go to the gnome bugzilla to file an upstream bug? and to the kde (whatever)? [07:06] welcome, tuxmaniac. Thank you for helping [07:07] Odd-rationale, yes. For KDE it is http://bugs.kde.org/ [07:07] and there are many others... [07:07] that sucks... [07:08] doesn't launchpad have integration with bugzilla and trac? i remember reading about it somewhere... [07:08] well... an old friend of mine used to say "life sucks, and then you die". I prefer "such is life" [07:08] One silly question.. If I had triaged this bug yesterday and then today after the response I set it to invalid can I add it to my 5-a-day list today also?? :P [07:08] gnome bugzilla has had some history issues on integration. [07:09] tuxmaniac, yes, you can. [07:09] tuxmaniac: uh, yeah ;) [07:09] hehehcool cool [07:09] tuxmaniac, one less bug on the face of Earth is worth a 5-a-day [07:10] (for the correct, kosher, reasons) [07:10] Odd-rationale: damn. 46!!! :O [07:11] :E [07:11] the some 5 packages 9 times... :P [07:11] *same [07:15] does anybody know who is going to organise the Bug Jam in Ecuador? [07:15] is it Ruben Romero? [07:16] ah yeah, looks like it === hggdh is now known as hggdh-zzz [07:19] im not sure to ask here or in -quality, but i know some LP api users are here: how many reports assigned to yelp get reassigned elsewhere over time? [07:27] what's the name of the thing that automatically install codecs for totem/etc. ? [07:28] dholbach: we might be getting around 3-4 in Chennai, a similar 3 in Bangalore and most of the other crowd spread across the gigantic country on IRC. [07:29] also dholbach I added the 5-a-day team as indian-team (as in LP) but doesnt reflect in the stats until now. Any reasons? [07:30] tuxmaniac: make sure it shows up in your 5-a-day-data branch on code.launchpad.net/people/+me [07:30] tuxmaniac: then allow some time for the stats to be updated [07:41] why can i not change the importance? [07:41] because you're not important [07:41] :'( [07:41] more seriously, because it's a team based thing [07:41] NOBODY is important! [07:41] im not important either [07:41] * Odd-rationale is nobody... [07:42] in fact, i think importance is a bit disingenious === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn [07:43] good morning! [07:43]