[00:12] <bryce> tormod, :-)
[00:15] <tormod> bryce: there's some truth to it though - people install it more often than they need
[00:16] <bryce> I agree
[00:17] <bryce> tormod: my thinking here is that we should make a big push before intrepid is out, to get the number of bug reports filed against -ati down
[00:17] <bryce> ideally to ~1--
[00:17] <bryce> er ~100
[00:17] <tormod> what about pushing out a new version?
[00:18] <bryce> we've got 6.9.0 which is current right?
[00:18] <bryce> debian has a git snapshot which might be worth looking at
[00:19] <tormod> current in the sense of official releases, but you know releases are cheap^w expensive upstream
[00:19] <bryce> well, for now I think it would be good for us to get more bug reports forwarded upstream
[00:20] <bryce> if they do a 6.9.1 release before things are too frozen, we could pull that in; if not, maybe it'd give us patches we could pull in
[00:24] <tormod> hmm 176 bugs. we were close to 100 some months ago...
[00:24] <bryce> http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/xserver-xorg-video-ati/plots/xserver-xorg-video-ati-fullyear-open.png
[00:25] <bryce> I'll bet we could get back to 150 fairly easily.  Probably there's a lot of bugs without response that can be closed
[00:26] <bryce> and others that are probably obsolete now
[00:26] <tormod> ahem some year ago I guess I meant :)
[00:26] <bryce> ;-)
[00:27] <bryce> it can be done though...  check out -intel:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/xserver-xorg-video-intel/plots/xserver-xorg-video-intel-fullyear-open.png
[00:27] <tormod> looks good.
[00:28] <tormod> maybe someone with bughelper foo can mass-ask for people to try intrepid with a new ati driver
[00:28] <bryce> if we can do the same with -ati then I think we can ratchet up being more aggressive at recommending it in place of -fglrx, maybe even deprecate fglrx even more actively
[00:29] <bryce> brian's promised to spend tomorrow working on X bugs, so I'll ask if he could do that
[00:30] <tormod> what if you push out the 1:6.9.0+git20080802.1f3eee36-1 before that :)
[00:33] <bryce> yeah could be done...
[00:34]  * bryce puts on the todo list for tomorrow
[00:34] <tormod> tomorrow - that reminds me - good night :)
[00:35] <bryce> night
[00:35] <bryce> tormod: will you be around tomorrow for -ati bug triage fun?
[00:35] <tormod> not so sure :P  Is it a hug day or something?
[00:37] <bryce> it's the global bug jam, and I'm going to be getting together in person with brian, leann, and others downtown, and try to get much of brian's help on bug triaging
[00:37] <bryce> so if you're around it could help for answer questions and such
[00:38] <tormod> what time is this UTC?
[00:40] <tormod> downtown where? I would have guessed you're Irish, but either living in Australia or having a broken day rhythm :)
[00:43] <bryce> heh, no I'm in Portland Oregon (west coast US)
[00:44] <bryce> so starts 9am Pacific time, which is...
[00:44] <bryce> like utc 1600 if I subtract correctly
[00:45] <tormod> hmm that calendar-Locations drop-down should have had timezones...
[00:45] <tormod> oh it actually has...
[00:48] <tormod> if it's raining I might drop by
[00:48] <tormod> night
[00:48] <bryce> night
[08:01] <tjaalton> just bought a tablet! hope it's supported too, aiptek media tablet 1000U
[08:02] <tjaalton> hmm, has it's own driver, duh
[08:02] <tjaalton> and no support for this one, crap
[08:05] <pwnguin> heh
[08:05] <pwnguin> you have a bug to fix!
[08:05] <tjaalton> at least the driver doesn't say so
[08:05] <tjaalton> or a device to sell! :)
[08:05] <tjaalton> it was only 50e, cheapest wacom was 80
[08:05] <pwnguin> interesting
[08:06] <tjaalton> this is a "second-hand" device, returned by the previous customer, so I'm not sure I can get a refund
[08:07] <pwnguin> well the cheapest wacom was probably a bamboo
[08:07] <tjaalton> yep
[08:07] <pwnguin> i see lots of reports about that too
[08:07] <tjaalton> intuos3 A5 ~380e
[08:08] <pwnguin> see, i just splurged a little more on my laptop
[08:08] <pwnguin> tabletPC
[08:08] <tjaalton> heh
[08:12] <pwnguin> are you sure it's a 1000U?
[08:19] <tjaalton> hehehe.. 10000U
[08:19] <tjaalton> my eyes..
[08:19] <pwnguin> ah, ok
[08:20] <pwnguin> crazyness in -devel
[08:20] <pwnguin> regarding x
[08:21] <tjaalton> hmm :)
[08:21] <tjaalton> should read the backlog first
[08:21] <tjaalton> http://aiptektablet.sourceforge.net/
[08:21] <tjaalton> still no 10000U
[08:50] <pwnguin> i think you're just hosed if https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AiptekTablet doesn't work
[08:50] <pwnguin> you could try writing them and asking for documentation
[08:55] <tjaalton> aiptek?
[08:56] <pwnguin> yea
[08:56] <pwnguin> i mean, it can't hurt to at least try
[08:57] <tjaalton> since I can't return the device anyway, I'll just try configuring it and see if it works or not :)
[08:57] <tjaalton> and if not, mail them
[09:02] <tjaalton> at least it works as a mouse :)
[09:03] <pwnguin> oh?
[09:03] <tjaalton> a bit too sensitive though
[09:03] <pwnguin> thats good to hear that it works
[09:03] <tjaalton> evdev grabbed it
[09:03] <pwnguin> they have a config tool
[09:04] <tjaalton> I'll try the aiptek driver next
[09:04] <tjaalton> oh and I should create an fdi file for it
[09:04] <pwnguin> if you can repro anything on here, that'd be handy
[09:05] <pwnguin> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-aiptek/+bug/204519
[09:06] <pwnguin> err
[09:06] <pwnguin> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-aiptek/
[09:06] <pwnguin> the whole lot of em. all 2
[09:08] <tjaalton> heh
[09:18] <tjaalton> silly options there.. Option "USB" is mandatory, so why is it not the default
[09:31] <tjaalton> w00t, works!
[09:31] <tjaalton> just need to calibrate
[09:32] <tjaalton> somehow the udev rules file doesn't work right, I need to load the module manually
[09:49] <tjaalton> eh, so starting any gtk app dumps the DDC data on the log, every time
[09:49] <tjaalton> which means the logfile is going to grow rapidly
[09:52] <tjaalton> ok, the tablet has some problems still, seems to lose the calibration too easily
[09:52] <Q-FUNK> FYI we have a bug #255991
[09:59] <tjaalton> Q-FUNK: you can prepare a package and it will be sponsored
[10:04] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: ack.  thanks!
[10:21] <jcristau> tjaalton: that's gtk calling XRRGetScreenResources on init, with the load detection and stuff that goes with it
[10:22] <jcristau> that should be patched out...
[10:30] <tjaalton> yeah, figured as much..
[10:30] <tjaalton> what would possibly break without that :)
[10:32] <jcristau> all gtk cares about is the screen geometry, and it can get that from xinerama
[10:36] <tjaalton> cool
[11:06] <tjaalton> I need to fix hotkey-setup to work without discover.. so I need to find out the vendor ID of the display driver. what would be the easiest way to do that?
[11:06] <tjaalton> just grepping lspci output?
[11:09] <tjaalton> yeah, just match Intel or ATI/AMD
[11:10] <tjaalton> since the script does not need anything else
[14:29] <crevette> hello there
[14:29] <crevette> what should I expect from the new intel video upload ? better performance ?
[14:30] <crevette> I've a bug actually where the screen become black after usplash (ie I can't see GDM), it is a known bug ?
[14:31] <jcristau> yes. don't use usplash.
[14:31] <crevette> :)
[15:31] <tjaalton> crevette: a known kernel problem, related to uvesafb
[15:31] <crevette> the only workaround is to disable uspash so
[15:32] <tjaalton> yes
[16:17] <johanbr> Are you guys aware of the keyboard breakage in Intrepid?
[16:17] <tjaalton> yes?
[16:18] <johanbr> My xorg log contains some funny snippets, such as (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Video Bus" (type: KEYBOARD)
[16:18] <johanbr> http://nullinfinity.org/tmp/Xorg.0.log
[16:19] <johanbr> The keyboard kind of works, but modifier keys and the arrow keys are very erratic.
[16:19] <johanbr> I got the advice to delete xorg.conf, but then X wouldn't even start.
[16:19] <tjaalton> is hal running?
[16:19] <johanbr> yes
[16:19] <tjaalton> and make sure you have set the keyboard model as evdev
[16:19] <johanbr> I have
[16:20] <tjaalton> ok, bug 255008 then
[16:21] <johanbr> Alrighty. What about those weird lines in xorg.conf where it apparently tries to add my video bus as a keyboard?
[16:21] <tjaalton> dunno, have to check the log
[16:21] <tjaalton> ..and I love it when firefox offers to open files with less
[16:22] <tjaalton> haha
[16:22] <tjaalton> make sure you have the latest xserver-xorg-core installed
[16:22] <tjaalton> yours is ubuntu2
[16:23] <johanbr> I just noticed. I'll install the latest updates and report back. Thank you.
[16:23] <tjaalton> cool
[16:23] <tjaalton> xorg.conf would help too
[16:25] <johanbr> http://nullinfinity.org/xorg.conf
[16:26] <bryce> tjaalton: I fussed with that genius tablet more yesterday, but still no go.  going to try the wacom's today probably
[16:29] <jcristau> johanbr: ignore the stuff about the video bus
[16:29] <tjaalton> bryce: I created an fdi file for aiptek, it should work for those devices that are properly supported, but my 10000U probably isn't so there are some calibration issues
[16:30] <johanbr> Alright, rebooting to see if this works.
[16:31] <tjaalton> uh, his logfile loads nvidia and the conf lists fglrx
[16:38] <johanbr> Things worked much better efter updates. :) Thanks.
[16:39] <tjaalton> johanbr: how come your xorg.conf has fglrx and the logfile shows that nvidia was loaded?-)
[16:40] <johanbr> tjaalton: Oh, I'm sorry. That must be the xorg.conf from my old laptop. :)
[16:43] <tseliot> bryce, federico1: I have added another feature to the Xrandr C applet. Now after the apply button is clicked, the graphical representation of the outputs and the GUI in general are refreshed and reflect the current situation. It took me about 3 lines of C code ;)
[16:44] <tseliot> any ideas as to how I can contribute patches to the project?
[16:46] <federico1> tseliot: a patch to gnome-control-center, you mean?  just send it to me and I'll commit it
[16:46] <federico1> bryce: do you have a  gnome svn account?
[16:46] <federico1> tseliot: you can get an account, too
[16:47] <tseliot> federico1: shall make separate patches? I mean, separate from the XKit part?
[16:49] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: debdiff attached to bug #255991 and ready to apply & upload to hardy-proposed.
[16:53] <federico1> tseliot: yes, please, as xkit is not upstream yet
[16:54] <tseliot> ok
[16:54] <federico1> tseliot: (these changes don't depend on it, do they?)
[16:54] <tseliot> federico1: no, they don't depend on anything but the c applet itself ;)
[16:54] <federico1> ok, cool
[17:42] <bryce_> morning
[18:03] <tjaalton> evening :)
[18:13] <bryce_> playing with brian's wiimote
[18:14] <bryce_> brian, leann, gchaix and I are having an on-site downtown portland, and I had them bring all manner of oddball input devices to try out
[18:15] <tjaalton> hehe
[18:16] <tjaalton> I need to upgrade my home desktop to intrepid, so my kids can play with the aiptek (when it works properly..)
[18:18] <bryce_> I've got an fdi for the genius btw
[18:19] <bryce_> tseliot: here's your xorg.conf - https://devpad.canonical.com/~brian/bugs-with-xorgconf.html
[18:20] <tjaalton> I forgot my laptop at work, the aiptek fdi is on it
[18:20] <bryce_> s/xorg.conf/xorg.confs/
[18:21] <tjaalton> that's not accessible by mere mortals :)
[18:21] <tjaalton> but then again, tseliot is not :)
[18:21] <bryce_> tseliot: so next step is to write a screenscraper to download all of them, then probably remove any duplicates
[18:22] <bryce_> ah, let me copy over
[18:23] <pwnguin> bryce_: speaking of wiimotes, i wonder if there's a set of media keys for volume , forward, etc
[18:23] <tseliot> bryce, federico, seb128: I have submitted a patch which improves the Gnome Control Center: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=546969
[18:24] <bryce_> could be
[18:24] <bryce_> tseliot: cool
[18:25] <tseliot> bryce: that link requires a username and a password (which I don't have since I don't work for canonical)
[18:26] <bryce_> hang on
[18:28] <bryce_> http://bryceharrington.org/files/X/bugs-with-xorgconf.html
[18:28] <bryce_> try that
[18:30] <tseliot> bryce_: ok, I can access that page, thanks. I'll get them all with a script
[18:30] <bryce_> kewl
[18:34] <tseliot> bryce_: please keep that page online for a few days
[18:34] <bryce_> sure thing
[18:35] <tseliot> thanks
[19:40] <bryce_> hmm, lotta EDID info being dumped into Xorg.0.log...  tjaalton I think you mentioned this yesterday?
[19:41] <tjaalton> bryce: yep, it's gtk
[19:42] <tjaalton> 12:21 < jcristau> tjaalton: that's gtk calling XRRGetScreenResources on init, with the load  detection and stuff that goes with it
[19:42] <tjaalton> 12:22 < jcristau> that should be patched out...
[19:45] <tjaalton> bryce: about bug 256142, the patch is already included
[20:44] <tormod> bryce, hi, are you jamming X bugs?
[21:30] <alex-weej_> http://alex-weej.blogspot.com/2008/08/sucata-run-2008.html
[21:31] <alex-weej_> http://alex-weej.blogspot.com/2008/08/sucata-run-2008.html
[21:33] <Jc2k> hi all
[21:33] <Jc2k> oh god, alex-weej_ !
[21:33] <alex-weej_> :S
[21:33] <alex-weej_> i feel like a total gimp now
[21:33] <alex-weej_> lol
[21:33] <Jc2k> lol
[21:34] <Jc2k> so i just upgraded one of my laptops to ibex
[21:34] <Jc2k> when it goes into x, keyboard stops working
[21:34] <Jc2k> there is no mouse either
[21:34] <Jc2k> but keyboard works fine in console
[21:34] <Jc2k> this is GNOME, and an upgrade from hardy not a fresh install
[21:34] <johanbr> Jc2k: Make sure all your packages are up to date.
[21:35] <Jc2k> johanbr: any changes in past 2 hours..
[21:35] <Jc2k> its a fresh upgrade
[21:37] <johanbr> What's your version of xserver-xorg-core?
[21:38] <Jc2k> 2:1.4.99.906-1
[21:39] <Jc2k> (secondary issue, it seems i can only get in to x if i boot in recovery mode and run startx manually.. booting normally yields a black screen)
[21:39] <alex-weej_> before anyone else grills me for spam, sorry. "/amsg" works for all networks at once in X-Chat, CAUTION!
[21:42] <johanbr> Jc2k: What's the -ubuntu suffix ? And what does Xorg.0.log say?
[21:44] <Jc2k> ubuntu3
[21:45] <Jc2k> anything to look for in log?
[21:45] <Jc2k> hard to pastebin without browser (or even network)
[21:45] <Jc2k> brb
[21:48] <seb128> Jc2k: do you get the issue when you don't start GNOME? what videocard do you use?
[21:50] <bryce_> wii works... although doesn't seem to show up in hal
[21:50] <bryce_> tormod: yep we're jamming X bugs
[21:51] <tormod> bryce_: have you got to update -ati?
[21:52] <bryce_> tormod: ah, forgot; I'll work on that once I'm done with the wii
[21:53] <tormod> bryce_: please cherry-pick the upstream fix for bug #148408 :)
[21:56] <Jc2k> seb128: its an intel chipset, one sec while i get the exact model
[21:57] <bryce_> tormod: ok
[21:58] <Jc2k> seb128: i think its a GMA 950
[21:58] <tormod> bryce_: or just go for git head :)
[22:03] <Jc2k> seb128: got any suggestions for testing x without gnome.. (no network on said laptop)
[22:04] <bryce_> jc2k you could set your default window manager to xdm instead of gdm
[22:04] <seb128> Jc2k: select the failsafe session in the gdm sessions list?
[22:04] <bryce_> or start up X manually
[22:05] <Jc2k> im in recovery mode
[22:05] <Jc2k> because it freezes on a black screen
[22:05] <Jc2k> otherwise
[22:05] <Jc2k> so im at a console and typing startx
[22:05] <Jc2k> it comes up with no mouse and no keyboard
[22:06] <seb128> urg
[22:06] <Jc2k> (well, ctrl+alt+del causes a shutdown)
[22:06] <seb128> tried to move the xorg.conf away?
[22:06] <Jc2k> yep
[22:06] <seb128> really weird, I'm not an xorg guy though, maybe bryce has an idea
[22:06] <Jc2k> (so to be clear, im not going through gdm)
[22:07] <Jc2k> and xdm isnt installed, so i cant try that
[22:07] <Jc2k> unless i battle with wireless
[22:07] <Jc2k> *misses network manager*
[22:15] <tormod> j
[22:15] <tormod> Jc2k: this sounds like the hotplug fun. Try the ServerFlags option "AllowEmptyInput" "false"
[22:16] <tjaalton> Jc2k: what version of hal?
[22:17] <tjaalton> and disable usplash
[22:17] <Jc2k> tjaalton: hal 0.5.11-3~ubuntu5
[22:17] <tjaalton> I'm sick of this uvesafb bug :)
[22:17] <tjaalton> Jc2k: setxkbmap -print
[22:18] <Jc2k> tjaalton: and no usplash, because im booting in recovering mode to avoid a hang
[22:18] <tjaalton> it's not hung
[22:18] <tjaalton> the screen just stays blank
[22:18] <tjaalton> disable usplash and reboot
[22:18] <Jc2k> oh i see :)
[22:19] <Jc2k> setxkbmap doesnt work withou an x screen
[22:19] <tjaalton> right :)
[22:19] <tjaalton> the xorg log would help too
[22:19] <tjaalton> oh, and check that you have xserver-xorg-input-evdev installed
[22:20] <Jc2k> kk
[22:20] <tjaalton> gone for awhile->
[22:21] <Jc2k> i have xserver-xorg-input-evdev
[22:21] <Jc2k> going to reboot without usplash now
[22:21] <bryce_> pwnguin: you mentioned with the wii, that you were curious about media keys for volume, forward, etc. - could you explain more?  The buttons seem mappable
[22:23] <Jc2k> tjaalton: victory, disabling splash == working mouse too
[22:23] <Jc2k> tjaalton: and kb
[22:24] <Jc2k> :)
[22:26] <pwnguin> bryce_: the buttons are mappable in cwiid (wminput)
[22:26] <pwnguin> but i dont know the x multimedia keys
[22:27] <pwnguin> it seems like they'd be more universal than setting up totem key bindings
[22:27] <pwnguin> sometimes i need mplayer, and it uses different keys for actions
[22:29] <bryce_> hmm, well the remote shows up in xinput list, so presumably you could map the buttons to whatever you want
[22:30] <pwnguin> indeed
[22:30] <pwnguin> btw, which program are you using?
[22:31] <bryce_> wminput and wmgui
[22:31] <bryce_> and xinput list to view the remote
[22:31] <pwnguin> huh
[22:32] <pwnguin> it uses uinput last i knew
[22:33] <bryce_> right, that's the kernel module
[22:33] <pwnguin> well, a kernel module
[22:34] <pwnguin> wminput basically talks with that
[22:34] <pwnguin> wminput reads from a set of config files to perform the mapping
[23:05] <tormod> bryce_: did you talk with Brian about bughelper and ati bugs?
[23:08] <tormod> btw would be awesome to have all (old and new) Xorg.0.log{.old} attachments forced to text/plain
[23:12] <bryce_> tormod: yeah I asked kiko about that at the distro sprint a few weeks ago
[23:13] <bryce_> calling brian...
[23:13] <bryce_> -ati is built btw... I need to sync the changelogs and then will upload
[23:14] <bdmurray> tormod: What did you have n mind?
[23:15] <tormod> bdmurray: there are so many -ati bugs we want to mass-address with some "please try this and that etc" message
[23:16] <bdmurray> tormod: right, that's easy what specific criteria did you want to use?  All New? All New and Confirmed?
[23:18] <tormod> bdmurray: I haven't thought so much about it. Bryce would talk to you :)
[23:22] <bryce_> tormod: -ati uploading
[23:23] <tormod> bryce_: cool!
[23:25] <bryce_> tormod: was easy, almost a sync, just one change to put forward
[23:25] <tormod> the conflict/replace for -driver-ati ?
[23:26] <bryce_> yup
[23:27] <bryce_> should I forward that patch to debian?
[23:27] <jcristau> we've never shipped that
[23:28] <jcristau> and i thought ubuntu was gonna drop that diff after hardy anyway
[23:29] <tormod> do we have -driver-ati in any supported release?
[23:30] <bryce_> maybe like dapper or something
[23:30] <bryce_> we don't ship it any longer
[23:31] <tormod> yes, dapper which is 5 years LTS...
[23:31] <tormod> 5 years on server that is? without X?
[23:32] <jcristau> but aiui upgrades from dapper need to go through hardy, so they'd drop that package at that point
[23:32] <jcristau> intrepid doesn't have to care
[23:32] <tormod> jcristau: right
[23:43] <tormod> bryce_: you did not cherry-pick that M6 fix?
[23:47] <pwnguin> are we coming up on any big freezes?