=== asac_ is now known as asac [00:08] TheMuso: no worries, I think I figured it out ;-) [00:09] kirkland: ok. [00:22] TheMuso: the pc speaker issue, can it not be fixed by lowering the priority of the device some way, like the index=-2 for modems and usb devices? [00:23] tormod: That has been done for alsa, its pulseaudio thats the issue, as well as the volume for the pcsp alsa device, at least on the hardware I have. If pcsp is muted, then for me at least, there is no sound from the pc speaker when pulse initializes it. [00:24] TheMuso: what criteria does pulseaudio use for selecting the primary sound device? [00:24] tormod: Unless the user has set a configuration to use a particular device, pulse uses the first device it finds. [00:25] and it does not go through them in alsa order? [00:25] tormod: It goes through them in the order that hal lists them. [00:25] I am sorry I don't know how these things are stacked [00:26] tormod: But thats no longer the issue. The pc speaker will never be used by default any more, but the crackling/squeaking sound people get is the issue. [00:26] ok === asac_ is now known as asac [00:59] hello === superm1|away is now known as superm1 === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF [02:58] Oh, curses. Pulseaudio's getting killed with "Soft CPU limit exhausted" messages again. [03:09] more context? [03:10] I think RAOF is playing cheapskate CPU socialist government with his shell server ;-) [03:11] crimsun: Run pulseaudio. Play some music. At some point pulseaudio will be killed with SIGXCPU. [03:11] crimsun: you know, the thingamagiggie bug in the whatchamacallit [03:11] RAOF: erm, 8.10? more detail? :) [03:11] crimsun: 8.10, updated as of this morning, just started happening. [03:12] interesting, I'll pull a daily-live shortly [03:12] This _has_ happened before, though. I forget what happened then, though. [03:13] hi all. A question. Which html engine as the most interoperability? [03:16] pushax: I'm not sure this is the best channel to answer that [03:16] pushax: In what way do you think that's on-topic for #ubuntu-devel? Also, there's nowhere near enough information; what do you mean by "interoperability"? :) [03:16] * RAOF watches the SIGXCPU signals being ruthlessly caught by gdb. [03:23] ROAF as I want to develop and application but want ti to run also on other systems with minimal changes. [03:24] pushax: Still off-topic, but both firefox & webkit should be nicely portable. [03:24] KHTML/webkit seems to the be well supported. I'm fairly new to linux. [03:25] what is the default engine on Gnome? [03:25] is gecko a complete web engine? [03:26] brb [03:26] gecko is the core of firefox [03:26] webkit is the core of safari [03:26] does gnome has a web layer? [03:31] pushax: Gnome's default web browser, epiphany, has used gecko, but I think webkit is also being worked on [03:31] Epiphany is moving removing the pluggable backends and supporting just webkit, but it's apparently not going to make 2.24 [03:33] thanks gyes [03:34] I wanted soem base, before jumping into reading === philwyett_ is now known as philwyett [05:21] hmm, KDE and gnome seem to share the same autostart systems [05:22] that seems slightly inconvenient [05:23] I believe KDE respects the X-KDE-StartOnlyInKDE key, fwiw. [05:24] but does Gnome respect X-Gnome-StartOnlyInGnome ? [05:24] that's what started this all, Gnome-do was starting in my KDE session and screwing up some things [05:24] then I disabled it from KDE and it disappeared altogether from Gnome [05:25] hmm, KDE needs to respect X-GNOME-Autostart-enabled I think [06:00] i presume so, but has someone pointed out prior to this point that the information printed on the 8.04 cd sleeves is incorrect? [06:00] Hobbsee: which info is that? [06:01] ajmitch: the stuff about the default option being deleting all data on your computer. [06:03] good morning [06:03] hey dholbach [06:04] hiya [06:25] <\sh> moins dholbach [06:25] I know it's supposed to be a recovery console, but doesn't anyone think it's insecure to have the recovery console (root) not be password protected? [06:25] What good is locking my screen when a friend (enemy) could reboot, go into recovery and have root control? [06:26] hi \sh [06:26] lukehasnoname: if your enemy has physical access, you've already lost the battle [06:26] lukehasnoname: That's what luks is for. [06:26] sudo passwd root [06:27] luks... [06:27] Encrypted hard drive. [06:27] RAOF means; encrypted root partition [06:27] ah, yes. [06:27] * \sh just fixes all the ESX servers in our company...grmpf [06:28] Failing that, physical access trumps everything (and, of course, not even failing that given sufficient encouragement). [06:28] Which still wont protect you from someone attempting the frozen memory reboot technique. [06:28] I'm also thinking of the general population, who won't have any idea to encrypt / or to change root's pass. [06:28] lukehasnoname: It's a trade-off between convenience and (a little) security. [06:29] true. [06:29] <\sh> most people won't know how to access a machine without a password...it's only a promille of the world population [06:29] lukehasnoname: I happen to agree with you, by the way. Setting a root password is still a "good idea" [06:30] The alternative to "no password required for recovery access" is "the root password that you typed once 2 years ago when instaling the system and you've now forgotten is required" [06:30] Which Windows can do. [06:30] RAOF: in which case you can still boot from a recovery disc, chroot, and passwd [06:30] realist: Indeed. So what has your root password on recovery access given you? [06:31] <\sh> realist: that's what bios boot security is for [06:31] RAOF: false sense of security :-) [06:31] realist: Right :) [06:31] \sh: Sure, and you reboot a server remotely, and then have someone type the password. No, bad. [06:32] StevenK: reboot remotely... from alternate boot media? [06:32] <\sh> StevenK: hmmm? remote insight boards are quite common in our days [06:32] * \sh doesn't need remote hands to do the usual work [06:32] \sh: or a remote kvm [06:32] I tend to not like remote KVMs [06:32] <\sh> realist: I'm HP fan ;) so I have ILO :) [06:32] They do horrid things like want Java [06:33] I'm a Sun fan, so I have an ok> prompt via serial console ;-) [06:33] StevenK: not 'real' kvms [06:34] The "real" remote KVMs tend to cost large sums of money [06:34] * realist truely dislikes those web-based remote consoles (eg. Dell RAC, or IBM RSA) [06:35] StevenK: there's a nice market there for an open source (hardware/embedded) alternative [06:41] nice or niche :) [06:41] fwiw, even encrypted partitions can deliver a false sense of security: eg Attacker holds gun to head of (liked vs disliked :-) ) co-worker: "give me the code or bang". There's always a way around, just depends on how much effort an attacker is willing to invest. [06:42] spm: Or the person with physical access could add a hardware keylogger, or whatever. [06:43] RAOF: sure. or take the unencrypted backup tapes :-D [06:43] Indeed. Whatever. Physical access > *. [06:44] Hence: Defence in Depth. Physical. Personnel. Logical. (sorry for lecture mode. used to teach this crap... ;-) ) [06:47] spm, a/s/l [06:47] haha [06:48] I believe I am one of the younger people to hang around here on the IRC. [06:49] lukehasnoname: us grumpy old farts were young once. just remember that. :-P [06:50] I'm sure. I've been realizing that more and more recently [06:50] Good morning [06:50] Morning pitti [06:51] emgent: it's always better to do a normal upload to intrepid only, and an automated backport to hardy [06:51] pitti! [06:51] emgent: manual uploads to *-backports should be avoided, and require a special rationale [06:52] kirkland: I am now [06:52] TheMuso: I already blacklisted it yesterday; testing and input appreciated [06:52] TheMuso: I know that it isn't ideal, but I think it's still better than living with those eternal squeaks and hangs [06:53] TheMuso: and if we don't have another solution, we can still re-enable kernel support for the old module? [06:53] hey StevenK, moin Hobbsee [06:53] pitti: Yeah I saw, I found a fix for the original problem I tried to fix in alsa-utils. I simply needed to move the calls to mute the pc speaker card to 0. It should be fine now. I have yet to upload alsa-utils, but I've tested the fix locally and it works. [06:53] TheMuso: but how is that different, in principle? [06:53] TheMuso: pc speaker keyboard beeps won't be audible? [06:53] pitti: Its because I forgot that udev calls the alsa init script for individual cards, so the reset for pc speaker mute wasn't being called. [06:54] pitti: Pc speaker beeps will still be audible. That is a different control for the mixer of the pcsp card. [06:54] TheMuso: ah, I see [06:54] If you were to load the pcsp module now, and check the mixer, you will notice a few controls, one is PC speaker which is the beeps. [06:55] The Master volume is separate and the one we are wanting to quash. [06:55] TheMuso: other thing, the reported hangs at session start in vmware et al, that won't change with changing the volume, will it? [06:55] pitti: I don't know. I don't have VMWare to test with. [06:56] TheMuso: happened to me in kvm, too; not very reliable, seems to be a race condition [06:56] I had it hang in vmware and kvm three times, then tried half a day later, and had it working in kvm [06:56] pitti: Is it anything to do with sound? [06:57] TheMuso: that's just what bug 246969 claimed [06:57] * TheMuso looks [06:58] no bugbot? [06:58] Nope, ubotu is MIA [06:59] TheMuso: when I experienced the bug, playing the startup sound through pcsp took half a minute or longer, which could be well perceived as 'hanging' [07:00] pitti: Right, but the startup sound will not play through PC speaker any more, the only thing that can still be heard is crackling, which I have now found a better fix for. [07:00] TheMuso: how did you fix the former? [07:00] i. e. ignoring the card if it's there? [07:00] pitti: Patched pulseaudio to make sure that the last device it loads support for is pcsp. [07:01] pitti: Pulse doesn't ignore it, it just loads pcsp support last. [07:01] With my patch. [07:01] TheMuso: how does that help? if you don't have any other card, pcsp is the one that gets used [07:01] Prior to that, hal was giving pulse a list of devices, with pcsp at the top of the list. [07:01] and in VMs you very often don't have any other card === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [07:02] pitti: THis is true. I can blacklist the pc speaker from being used with pulseaudio entirely, however I have had some users say that pcsp is sometimes useful with pulse, believe it or not. [07:04] back in a bit [07:05] <\sh> oh what a day...esx update works out of the box [07:07] \sh: it'd better, after yesterday [07:08] <\sh> Treenaks: well, updates via update manager are still not working...but suspending all vm-machines, and applying the issued update package manually from the commandline works as expected..and all machines are coming back without any errors [07:10] back [07:11] pitti: Ok, after the alpha, I'll blacklist the PC speaker from pulse altogether, and we can unblacklist it. [07:15] pitti, I remember you had some chatter going on about usplash and uvesafb a week or so ago. "should" things be stable on it right now? [07:17] superm1: stable in the sense of "it didn't change", but it's still broken [07:17] pitti, okay wasn't sure if i was having isolated incidents that i should file bugs on [07:18] but that clears that up :) [07:20] pitti: ok if I upload xorg which drops input devices from xorg.conf (irrelevant now anyway, and possibly only confusing)? [07:20] tjaalton: the a4 candidate CDs are in the middle of building [07:20] pitti: doesn't touch existing conf's [07:20] pitti: hum, ok [07:21] tjaalton: do you think that is critical for a4? if so, it's doable, just asking [07:22] pitti: not critical, just that people might be confused by seeing entries in the conf that have no meaning [07:22] forgot to upload earlier. [07:23] would you be fine with uploading it on Friday? [07:23] pitti: sure, no problem [07:23] if you are concerned that people get confused about it, feel free to add a caveat to the release notes (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview) [07:23] tjaalton: ok, thanks [07:23] pitti: ok, that would work [07:35] pitti: done [08:41] TheMuso: oh, I just noticed that livefses are reeeally old, so they just didn't contain your latest fixes [08:41] ok, not that old, 20080808 built [08:42] now they fail with "couldn't find xresprobe" [08:43] xresprobe | 0.4.24ubuntu8 | hardy | source, amd64, i386 [08:43] xresprobe | 0.4.24ubuntu8 | intrepid/universe | source, amd64, i386 [08:43] * pitti fixes livecd-rootfs [08:43] pitti: ^ [08:43] right, I was told xresprobe isn't necessary any more [08:59] pitti: right. === azeem_ is now known as azeem [09:36] siretart: here by chance? [09:40] * pitti points tkamppeter at the soft freeze and the topic; please try not to break anything in intrepid ATM :) [09:42] tkamppeter: How would one go about testing the new PDF pipeline used by CUPS without wasting paper? I could of course print blank sheets, but is there a way to simulate and print the filter chain without printing? [09:43] ah yes, that reminds me. really should track down that printer bug. [09:43] Uh, s/simulate and print/simulate and dump/ [09:43] ion_: you could set up a file:// queue? [09:43] pitti: Thanks [09:43] if you found out, that would make some nice test scripts [09:43] Can anyone please sponsor the fix for bug 256949? I expected doko to do that by now, but he seems to have forgotten or missed it. [09:43] Launchpad bug 256949 in java-common "Wrong value for symlink default-java causes build failures on powerpc" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256949 [09:44] ion_: cups upstream has a test suite and runs it during build, but unfortunately the new filters aren't covered by that yet [09:44] slytherin: doko is on a conference [09:44] Ok [09:44] pitti: so does that mean he will be available soon? [09:45] slytherin: no, not before next week [09:46] slytherin: I can upload that for you [09:46] ion_, you can creat a printer which prints into a file. At first do [09:46] cupsctl FileDevice=yes [09:46] Then create a queue with URL file:/tmp/printout [09:47] /tmp/printout will be of the format what the printer expects. [09:47] slytherin: uploaded, thanks [09:47] Alright [09:47] pitti: Thanks. :-) [09:48] slytherin: once it's built and in the archive (ideally in about 1:10 hours), feel free to toss a list of packages to me which should be reattempted to build on powerpc [09:48] pitti: sure. === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [09:49] ion_ to get a PDF printing workflow you need a driver which already accepts PDF. This is currently gutenprint and other CUPS-raster-based drivers (others to follow). [09:50] Second, use PDF as input format, by either using KDE or Qt apps for printing or by sending PDFs directly (lpr -P .pdf). [09:51] tkamppeter: let's hope that once Mike integrates those filters upstream, they'll get tested in the test suite eventually [09:52] pitti, I hope so, too, but he did not answer to CUPS bug 2897 yet ... [09:52] CUPS bug 2897 in Core CUPS Software "Adding CUPS filters for using PDF as standard print job format" [Priority request for enhancement,New] http://www.cups.org/str.php?L2897 [09:54] tkamppeter: I noticed cupsfilter and tried cupsfilter -p /etc/cups/ppd/HP_LaserJet_2300.ppd /usr/share/doc/gdb/refcard.ps.gz. It began processing it correctly by running /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstopdf, but that script failed because PATH=/usr/lib/cups/filter:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin/usr/bin (note the last item). [09:55] tkamppeter: I mean, cupsfilter itself printed: DEBUG: envp[6]="PATH=/usr/lib/cups/filter:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin/usr/bin" [09:57] tkamppeter: % strings =cupsfilter | grep usr/bin [09:57] %s/filter:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin/usr/bin [09:59] slytherin: the build made it quickly enough, so the after the next publisher (in 1 hour) it will be avilable [10:00] pitti: Cool. I will keep list of packages ready. Should I split them by main/universe? [10:00] slytherin: for retrying the builds? not necessary [10:01] slytherin: I'd just appreciate if you could do the list with just spaces, no commas, and no "or", "and", etc. in between, so that it is cut&pasteable [10:02] pitti: sure [10:02] ion_ so the CUPS code contains a bad path? Looks like a bug in CUPS. But as all needed directories are there, this should not be the source of the problem. [10:05] ion_, but cupsfilter has one problem: It does not report what the actually used filter chain is. [10:06] tkamppeter: I’m about to send a diff for cupsfilter. Oh, and it seems to print which filter commands it runs. [10:10] pitti: Remind what needed libxsettings in main? [10:10] ion_ for me [10:11] cupsfilter -p /etc/cups/ppd/x.ppd ~/walking-map-portland-1.pdf > x [10:11] StevenK: matchbox-window-manager and libmatchbox [10:12] says that gziptoany and no other filter was invoked, strange, as nothing is gzipped here. [10:13] pitti, all printing-related uploads which I am doing currently cannot break the installation or the CD size. They do not introduce new dependencies. [10:14] "famous last words" :) , well, just be careful [10:14] breaking printing would be bad enough :) [10:14] pitti, they are mainly changing PPD files and such so that PDF printing will work. Alpha 4 users should test the PDF workflow. [10:15] tkamppeter: right, but many alpha-4 CDs are already done [10:15] kubuntu is missing still, rest should already work [10:15] If certain jobs do not print we have still two months to fix these cases. [10:17] ./win 69 [10:17] gar [10:17] nice number there [10:18] I really need to alias /win to /fail given how often I manage to type something else first ;) [10:18] ion_ for better testing you should create a queue printing into a file and set debug mode. Then yiou can see the actual filter chains in error_log [10:19] tkamppeter: Alright [10:22] hi, I've a problem with lib/firmware when trying to compile/install vanilla kernel on ubuntu via the git/debian way... [10:23] I think the main problem is that dpkg -i linux-image tries to install firmware in /lib/firmware instead of /lib/firmare/$(uname -r) [10:23] can I configure this somewhere under the debian control directory? [10:24] tkamppeter: http://heh.fi/tmp/cups_1.3.8-4.debdiff [10:24] pitti: Thanks, MIR coming soon. [10:26] ion_, thanks. Please do also report a bug to CUPS upstream: http://www.cups.org/str.php [10:27] tkamppeter: Will do. [10:30] ion_ I have found also another cupsfilter bug: I can print a JPG in a regular queue but not via cupsfilter. Seems that cupsfilter does not see all conversion rules. [10:32] pitti: MIR for libxsettings is bug 257541 [10:32] Launchpad bug 257541 in libxsettings "MIR for libxsettings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257541 [10:42] pitti: I thought you NBS'd out gnustep-back0.12? [10:43] not yet, still wrestling with CDs [10:44] pitti: If not, gnustep-back0.12 gnustep-back0.12-art libgnustep-base1.14 libgnustep-gui0.12 can all go. [10:44] * pitti -> back in ~ 1 hour [10:53] tkamppeter: I tried cupsfilter -m application/vnd.cups-postscript /usr/share/doc/gdb/refcard.ps.gz with the patched cupsfilter, it did gziptoany | pstops, i.e. didn’t do gziptoany | pstopdf | pdftopdf | pdftops. Should it have done that? [10:54] I'm looking for a method of enforcing mount read-only, especially on a livecd, there appears to be no way to enforce this using hal policies / gnome-mount. Is it possible that this can be remedied in future releases. Where should I post/email to bring this to the developers attention?? [10:54] tkamppeter: I’ll try with a file printer next. [11:14] pitti: hi, i was working on grub and I saw that both you and benc had also made some changes... however, I was working off of a bzr branch, but I couldn't find your bzr branches === jscinoz_ is now known as jscinoz [11:51] kirkland: I didn't do a bzr branch, just a regular upload; it doesn't have Vcs-Bzr: [11:52] kirkland: if it is in bzr, can you please add the Vcs header? [11:52] kirkland: my debdiff is attached to the bug [11:53] pitti: hmm, when I do an apt-get source of grub, i see .... [11:53] NOTICE: 'grub' packaging is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at: [11:53] https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/ubuntu [11:53] pitti: This is the list of packages with FTBFS on powerpc - ant bsh jakarta-log4j libjaxp1.3-java libmx4j-java libservlet2.4-java libxerces2-java sacjava libjdic-java [11:54] kirkland: oh, whoops *brown paperbag* [11:54] kirkland: sorry, I'll commit my change then [11:54] this is the most hilarious piece of feedback on the Global Bug Jam: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=167#comment-92989 [11:54] pitti: cool, thanks. i was thoroughly confused :-) [11:55] dholbach: :-D [11:56] dholbach: good point... lady bugs are too cute to be a representative of truly nasty bugs :-) [11:56] kirkland: tell kwwii - he did the logo :) [11:57] slytherin: all given back [11:59] dholbach: ;-) if you want an ugly bug, you have to go with a flea or a tick :-) [11:59] kirkland: oh, right, the bzr branch is horribly out of date [11:59] uglier bug availabale for reuse: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/banner_bugs_01_i.png ;) === terminx_ is now known as TerminX [12:00] kirkland: seems that we first need to commit the last 5ish uploads first [12:00] pitti: i think benc may have done the same thing, possibly [12:00] pitti: i have a bug fix for #33649 in https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/grub/33649b [12:00] Missing a ’s [12:03] kirkland: maybe you can grab the debdiffs from https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub and commit them one by one into the ubuntu branch? (sorry, I am pretty busy with RMing for alpha-4) [12:04] pitti: let me see what I can do.... [12:04] kirkland: oh, hang on, owned by -core-dev [12:04] pitti: i'll do the work in my own [12:04] pitti: and you can merge from there [12:05] kirkland: I'll commit them here, don't worry [12:06] kirkland: the raid fixes in the UNRELEASED commits are not yet in intrepid, right? (you are the current changelog owner) [12:06] pitti: that is correct [12:07] ah, they were recently merged by slangasek [12:07] pitti: kees gave verbal approval of those changes before the bzr/dsc diversion was discovered [12:08] pitti: slangasek merged a downlevel version of that patch... he asked me to fix a couple of things before releasing [12:08] pitti: revision 841 in lp:~kirkland/grub/33649b is what i need sponsored and committed [12:14] kirkland: ok, all uploads committed to bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/ubuntu, and pushed [12:14] pitti: awesome, thanks [12:15] pitti: hang on... [12:15] merging your branch now [12:16] pitti: that is a downlevel version of grub-install_better_raid.diff [12:16] 'that'? [12:16] pending merges: [12:16] Dustin Kirkland 2008-08-11 This commit adds some smarts (back) into the handling of the multiple [12:16] pitti: oh, wait... looks like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/ubuntu/changes is still showing new commits [12:16] Dustin Kirkland 2008-08-11 slightly different approache to this problem, per IRC with slangasek... [12:17] kirkland: ^ that's what bzr merge lp:~kirkland/grub/33649b gives me now [12:17] pitti: yes, that one is right [12:17] conflicts: [12:17] Text conflict in debian/patches/grub-install_better_raid.diff [12:17] pitti: a few seconds ago, Rev 839 was the top entry on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/ubuntu/changes ;-) [12:17] kirkland: hm, maybe you can merge your branch against /ubuntu again, now that I pushed everything, and resolve the conflict? [12:18] I think you are in a better position to do that [12:18] pitti: okay, let me do that [12:22] dendrobates, kirkland, zul: will the server team do the alpah-4 server CD testing again? (VMs are ok) [12:23] pitti: yeah, i can help with some of that [12:23] pitti: i need to test a bunch of this raid stuff [12:23] kirkland: yes, don't worry, please finish that first [12:23] pitti: Did you commit your livecd-rootfs changes to it's bzr branch? [12:23] StevenK: yes, I did [12:23] pitti: Too distracted to do NBS stuff? [12:23] pitti: will these grub changes make it onto that iso? [12:24] kirkland: I was just going to say, by default I wouldn't upload it, since most of the CDs are done already [12:24] and it sounds like intrusive changes [12:24] I'm always open for pings why this or that upload must make it to the CDs, of course [12:25] pitti: hmm, well, mainly because this stuff really needs testing. i can probably live without it [12:25] pitti: If you're open for NBS stuff, please sync sear from Debian, no Ubuntu changes, builds fine, etc, etc, hand-wavy [12:25] pitti: try: https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/grub/33649b [12:26] pitti: If you commited, did you push? I can't see your changes by pulling from it. [12:27] StevenK: *cough* try again [12:27] * StevenK grins [12:27] That looks better. [12:28] Ah, and the sync too. Way cool. [12:28] StevenK: gnustep NBS goo removed, thanks [12:29] pitti: From the directory too, or that needs a regen after a few go-rounds? [12:29] StevenK: just from the archive [12:29] pitti: all packages build except one which has FTBFS for some different reason. [12:29] still needs publisher, et all [12:30] kirkland: merged, pushed; feel free to pull from lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/ubuntu into your branch [12:30] pitti: It's actually 'et al' :-) [12:30] I know, tpyo [12:30] pitti: cool [12:30] Teehhe [12:31] yohooooo [12:31] ubuntu livefs builds [12:31] \o/ [12:31] first since Sunday [12:31] well, if you want to get really technical, it's "et alii" or "et alia" :-) [12:31] Or "et alibi" when refering to text [12:31] Or "et alia" as well [12:32] * StevenK points kirkland at 'dict "et al"' [12:33] StevenK: agreed ;-) [12:47] kirkland: btw, was it ever discussed to provide some helper script/app to move all secret data like gpg and ssh keys, the gnome and firefox keyrings, to ~/Private/? [12:47] kirkland: I'm pondering using ecryptfs instead of complete LUKS-lvm for performance reaons on my next desktop install [12:47] but I always have to manually move them across, etc. [12:47] pitti: \o/ [12:48] pitti: it was discussed.... but the reception was cold/lukewarm [12:48] pitti: i like the idea though [12:48] Perhaps .Private or similar since those are usually in hidden directories? [12:49] pitti: [12:49] rkland@t61p:~$ ls -al Private/ [12:49] total 24 [12:49] drwx------ 6 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-08-08 03:13 . [12:49] drwx------ 93 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-08-13 06:40 .. [12:49] drwx------ 2 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-08-13 06:12 .gnupg [12:49] drwx------ 4 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-08-13 06:21 .liferea_1.4 [12:49] drwx------ 4 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-02-14 06:59 .mozilla [12:49] drwx------ 2 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-07-26 21:49 .ssh [12:49] drwxr-xr-x 9 kirkland kirkland 4096 2008-08-12 14:17 .evolution [12:49] pitti: that's what I'm running in my Private on a daily basis [12:49] pitti: kees suggested liferea as a pseudo-stress test, as he's had trouble with that dir on NFS mounts before [12:50] kirkland: ah, you are putting the entire .mozilla there? including cache? [12:50] pitti: yup [12:50] must be for some reason :P [12:50] pitti: i'm symlinking everything back to their natural homes [12:50] kirkland: ah, I was just going to ask [12:51] usually I keep ~/.gnupg where it is and set secret-keyring /media/PittiCrypt/gpg/secring.gpg [12:51] (from the time I used a LUKS-encrypted usb stick to carry my secret stuff) [12:51] pitti: that's a good idea [12:51] pitti: one thing to consider.... [12:51] because the pubring is huge and not sensitive [12:51] pitti: you're going to want encrypted swap as well [12:51] and just my secret ssh key, not the entire dir [12:51] pitti: in that passphrases could get swapped to disk [12:52] kirkland: well, I'm trying to achieve some more speed [12:52] pitti: right, totally [12:52] kirkland: usually most programs should use mlock() properly, but that doesn't help for hibernate, of course [12:52] pitti: encrypting all of /usr, /lib, and so forth is a waste [12:57] pitti: i'd love to get your feedback on encrypted Private, if you do it [12:58] pitti: I can do some of it [12:58] zul: great, thanks [12:59] zul, kirkland, dendrobates: we don't need exhaustive coverage, but at least some smoke test and the particular server features you are interested in; e. g. no need to exercise all partitioning options, since they are the same on the normal alternates [13:02] pitti: I've been hacking on Jockey today and now it is possible to distinguish between a recommended version of a driver and the other versions [13:02] pitti: the only thing I'm not sure about is how you would like to highlight the recommended version: bold, underline, etc. [13:04] pitti: I've got the following screeshots of the gtk GUI (the last screenshot is of the QT4 gui): [13:04] http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-bold.png [13:04] http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-underline.png [13:04] http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-recommended.png [13:04] http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-kde-bold.png [13:04] pitti: let me know what you think [13:05] tseliot: how does jockey find out which driver is recommended? [13:07] pitti: I had to add an is_recommended() method to XorgDriverHandler. It can only return False. The NVIDIA handler overrides this method with one [13:07] tseliot: ah, shouldn't that be on Handler, not just on XorgDriverHandler? [13:07] which uses nvidia-common and returns either True or False if self.package == recommended [13:08] pitti: I can move it there if you wish [13:08] mpt might have an opinion, too, but personally I like the [recommended] best, since it's most obvious [13:09] pitti: then I added this to backend.info: 'is_recommended': str(h.is_recommended()) [13:09] tseliot: that sounds good; please adapt the test cases accordingly [13:10] pitti: and both GUIs will see if self._(info['is_recommended']) is True or False and set the markup accordingly, that's all [13:10] pitti: ok [13:10] tseliot: please don't call _() on boolean values [13:11] tseliot: those are not strings which need to be l10n'ed [13:11] pitti: where? [13:11] tseliot: tseliot| pitti: and both GUIs will see if self._(info['is_recommended']) [13:13] pitti: ah, right, I'll use info['is_recommended'] instead [13:13] right ... == 'True' [13:13] (I know, it's weird, but doesn't work otherwise over D-BUS) [13:14] pitti: yes, I know that it's a string and not a bool. Otherwise it wouldn't have worked here ;) [13:14] pitti: which screenshot do you prefer? [13:14] tseliot: as I said, the [recommended] one; mpt, WDYT? [13:14] oh, not online [13:14] pitti: sorry, I didn't see it [13:15] tseliot: which one do you prefer? [13:15] pitti: maybe the one in bold [13:16] pitti: I will also clean up the x-kit part of Jockey [13:16] tseliot: btw, the place where you should use _() is the actual string, like '[%s]' % self._('recommended') [13:17] * ion_ shivers at explicit ‘self’. [13:17] pitti: and isn't it info['is_recommended'] ? [13:18] tseliot: no, info['is_recommended'] is the boolean, whereas 'recommended' is the string you show (or not) in the UI [13:18]