johanbrasac: Unfortunately I've been really busy and will be busy for the next few weeks, so I haven't had time to look at vpnc not working. Not sure if you have had time to take a look...00:03
asacjohanbr: thats ok. i think there is a real issue. ill test myself as soon as possible00:03
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pwnguindid anyone else get quasi mailbombed at their ubuntu.com address?00:59
Adri2000any archive admin could please move the amsn sru to -updates? (at least the hardy one)01:21
=== beuno is now known as beuno-dinner
=== beuno-dinner is now known as beuno
pwnguinso it wasn't me!02:01
shayais intrepid suffering from whats in here?02:06
shaya2.6.26.1 bug?02:07
shayamy T42p fan has been going crazy lately02:07
Hobbseeask in #ubuntu+1, where the users of intrepid usually hide?02:11
Hobbsee(although some developers are running intrepid)02:11
TheMusoIs anybody else able to boot the latest ubuntu amd64 intrepid daily in kvm under hardy?02:46
NCommanderTheMuso, I'm running the latest ubuntu amd64 intrepid on real metal if that helps02:50
TheMusoNCommander: No, it doesn't. I am also doing so on another box.02:51
* NCommander plays with dak02:56
=== superm1|away is now known as superm1
moquistif I have multiple binary packages building from a single source package, should the package name prefix in templates be the source package name, or the binary package name(s)?03:54
RAOFmoquist: You mean foo.install, foo.preinst, etc?03:54
moquisti.e., src pkg moodle builds moodle-mysql and moodle-postgresql. should templates have only moodle/... entires, or moodle-mysql/..., moodle/..., and moodle-postgresql/... ?03:55
RAOFmoquist: They should be binary package names.03:55
RAOFI'm not sure what you mean by "templates" in this setting.03:56
moquistRAOF: OK, so Template: <binpkg>/<question>03:56
RAOFThis is debconf, right?  I've approximately no experience there :)03:56
moquistRAOF: http://rafb.net/p/wSgfUZ27.html03:56
moquistline 62 should maybe read: Template: moodle-mysql/dba_password03:57
moquistRAOF: yes, debconf03:57
RAOFI'm not sure, but my *guess* is that you'd actually need it to be in a different templates file; one for the moodle-mysql binary package, one for the moodle-postgresql binary package, etc.03:59
RAOFThat's a guess based on the behaviour of other tools; I'm not familiar with debconf.03:59
james_whey moquist04:01
james_wI think binary package name is correct04:01
james_wif there are any that apply to both then you can do shared entries04:01
RAOFSo, I've got a question in return: how does one switch the CPU and IO schedulers at runtime?  I'd like to see if different schedulers have better than the abysmal interactive performance I'm currently seeing under IO load.04:02
james_wRAOF: there's a sysfs key04:02
RAOFjames_w: I suspected as much.  Any details of the top of your head?04:02
james_wjust searching now04:03
james_w /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor looks pretty good04:03
james_wfor the CPU at least04:03
RAOFThat's going to be the CPUFreq governor, not the scheduler04:03
RAOFIE: when should I throttle the CPU back.04:04
james_woh, yeah, sorry04:04
james_wfind /sys -name "*sched*"04:04
james_wthat lists a couple of things04:05
james_wperhaps block device schedulers can be changed, but not others04:05
RAOFYeah, possibly.04:07
moquistjames_w: hi! and thx04:07
moquistthat was my guess, too04:07
moquistjust one templates file, even though I have moodle.config and moodle-mysql.config, right?04:08
moquist(it builds, so I'm guessing that's right)04:08
james_wI'm not sure, I can't remember how it works04:10
moquistwell, I'll test soon. :)04:10
james_wif you have moodle.templates then try installing -mysql, it will soon fail if you need two04:11
james_wI'm glad to see you're still fighting away at this04:11
=== foka_ is now known as foka
moquistme too...I'm not sure of the timing here, but I still have hopes of getting this into debian in time for it to get pulled into intrepid04:12
moquistjames_w: if you have a moment, I'd appreciate your thoughts on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=vpnywhere04:13
james_wDebian is frozen which may be a hiccup04:13
james_wbut there is still time04:13
james_wmoquist: is this related?04:13
moquistjames_w: only in that it's a package I made. we discussed this one a couple times at UDS. *shrug*04:14
james_wthat's fine04:14
james_wI'll take a look tomorrow. It's late and I've been drinking, not helpful for review.04:14
moquistjames_w: heh - cheers, then. :)04:14
warrenIs chvt located at /usr/bin/chvt on Ubuntu?04:18
james_wwarren: yep, apparently04:19
cathyalis the indian language hindi possible on irssi?04:23
cathyalor say on x-chat04:23
cathyalany indians in the room04:24
cathyalanyone good with translations04:25
ScottKcathyal: This is an English channel.  You might try #ubuntu-in04:25
bryceheya james_w04:30
james_whey bryce04:30
james_wbryce: did you see Federico's patches?04:31
brycejames_w, couple bzr questions for you if you have a moment?04:31
brycecould you come to #inkscape?04:31
bryceactually nevermind, I'll ask here and just copy answers...04:32
james_wI can do that04:32
brycelast time we looked at switching to bzr for Inkscape, the two issues that stopped us were a) Windows UI, and b) EOL handling04:32
brycejames_w: do you know if the status on either of these has changed drastically in the last few months?04:33
james_wfor a) Mark Hammond (big pywin32 dude) has been contracted to make TortoiseBzr rock, and work is starting to progress on that04:34
james_wthere's also bzr-gtk and bzr-qt, which are improving a lot, especially the latter I believe, which is apparently more windows for some reason04:35
james_wfor b) there is work ongoing, 1.6 out this week will kind of be able to do it, but you would probably want 1.7, out next month to have it work well04:36
brycethanks for the answers james.  probably when those changes hit, Jon Cruz will take an interest04:46
james_wbryce: do you have an opinion on Federico's patches?04:47
bryceI peeked at the screenshot and it looks like nice eye candy04:48
brycewe're not to FF yet, so I think we could definitely pull the patch in04:48
bryceit's up to seb128 though.  he might prefer waiting until the patch is upstream04:49
james_wyeah, it's up to seb12804:50
james_wI was going to reply to ask about theming04:50
james_wI don't know how it picks the colours, but the one in the screen shot wouldn't sit well in Ubuntu04:51
bryceI'd gotten a suggestion from mirco on how to pick colors from the current theme04:52
bryceI can find it and forward it if you're interested04:52
james_wthat would be good04:53
james_wit's something we want anyway, but may help with this04:54
dholbachgood morning05:35
pittiGood morning05:59
StevenKMorning pitti06:01
dholbachhi pitti06:01
pittidholbach: btw, no sponsor bugs for me in the next two weeks, please (I'll be on holiday the next two weeks, and wrestle with alpha-4 this week)06:05
nxvlwhat are we going to do without pitti for 2 weeks!06:06
nxvl /o\06:06
dholbachpitti: OK06:07
* dholbach hugs super-pitti06:07
* nxvl HUGS pitti too06:07
dholbachpitti: what do we do in cases where we sync a new package from debian and it ftbfs, but we have a patch for the ftbfs already?06:08
dholbachsync, then upload the fix?06:08
dholbachget the fix to debian, then sync?06:08
StevenKDoes it FTBFS in Debian too?06:08
dholbachbug 25682106:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 256821 in ubuntu "Please sync glusterfs 1.3.10-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25682106:09
dholbachseems it doesn't06:09
StevenKWhat's the patch?06:09
dholbachit's in the bug06:09
StevenKAh, I know why that is06:10
pittidholbach: Keybuk told me that it is cleaner to sync and then apply the patch06:10
StevenKdholbach: I suspect that is libc6 2.8 fall out06:11
dholbachpitti: OK, I'll ack then sync then06:11
nxvldholbach: that's an ubuntu only issue due the compiler flags IIRC06:11
pittidholbach: that is, for MoM, otherwise it doesn't matter at all06:11
* pitti hugs back nxvl and dholbach06:11
StevenKI suspect Debian will hit the same issue when they hit libc6 2.806:11
pittiI forwarded a couple of "glibc 2.8 ftbfs" patches to Debian, they were all gladly accepted06:12
nxvldholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags06:12
nxvldholbach: under -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=206:12
StevenKnxvl: Given the error, I doubt it's because of compiler flags06:13
nxvlStevenK: that error is listed on that wiki06:13
nxvlbut i haven't check it closer06:13
nxvlpitti: can you please confirm me about the versioning of this package, i find it odd06:13
nxvlpitti: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythstream-parser-google06:13
StevenKnxvl: So, fix the error. libc likes it when you call functions correctly.06:14
nxvli have patched it before06:15
* nxvl looks06:15
pittinxvl: indeed it is06:15
pittinxvl: two ubuntus in the version number sounds wrong; the uploaded should make up his mind whether it's a native or upstream project06:16
nxvlpitti: thank you, can i quote you on revu?06:16
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
nxvlStevenK: taking a closer look to the patch in that bug report is exactly what it says on the wiki06:19
nxvldholbach: i hardly thing it is an ubuntu only bug06:19
dholbachnxvl: I asked Neil to forward the patch06:20
nxvldholbach: i would test it in debian before sending it, or ask the DM to include it for downstream compatibilty06:21
nxvlbecause they won't find it as a bug06:22
nxvlfound it06:22
dholbachnxvl: <StevenK> I suspect Debian will hit the same issue when they hit libc6 2.806:22
nxvlmysql-gui-tools_5.0 has the same problem06:23
nxvland fixed06:23
nxvldholbach: yeah, maybe it is a libc issue06:23
* nxvl checks in experimental06:23
kirklandpitti: how are the alpha4 cd's coming along?06:23
pittikirkland: nobody tested the new desktop CDs in the last 7 hours, doing that now; but I hope they'll work now06:24
pittikirkland: by and large they should be okay now06:24
kirklandpitti: cool, i'll do some server testing in the morning06:25
pittikirkland: servers look pretty good, 9/10 tests done06:25
kirklandpitti: oh, zul must have kicked some butt then :-)06:25
kirklandpitti: when does the archive re-open?  when can i get a fix for mdadm sponsored?06:25
pittisee http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all06:25
pittiwe urgently need kubuntu testing, and ubuntu desktop06:26
kirklandpitti: okay, i'll see what I can do tomorrow ;-)  i'm calling it a night06:31
nxvlStevenK: it builded without problems on sid (libc6 2.7-13) and in experimental (libc6 2.8+20080809-1) so it may be a compiler flag issue06:33
nxvljust tested06:34
nxvlpitti: that reminds me, how are the complierflags, libtool, libc changes managed? thay take place only at the start of the development cycle or at any time?06:37
superm1pitti, i know i was seeing some gvfsd trash related crash after install on the desktop disks06:43
superm1i wasn't at a location that i could submit a crash report when i was seeing it though06:43
pittisuperm1: yep, plenty of reports about that one06:54
pittinxvl: pretty much at the start usually06:55
superm1pitti, ah okay then i wont worry about reproducing it again06:55
pittinxvl: since they are very prone to break a lot06:55
pittisuperm1: right06:55
nxvlpitti: yes, that why i was thinking about it, since if they change we will need to rebuild a big part of the archive to check for breakages06:55
pittinxvl: that is, in Ubuntu we generally limit it to the start of a cycle; in Debian, changes happen during cyles, too, since they are much longer06:58
nxvlpitti: thank you for clarification06:58
pittisuperm1: ubuntu desktop CD, ubiquity works fine now; thanks again06:59
superm1pitti, no problem.  glad it was easy to identify :)06:59
=== superm1 is now known as superm1|away
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
* mneptok douses pitti in chocolate and kerosene07:43
StevenKChocolate *and* kerosene?07:44
StevenKI've heard about dark chocolate, but that's a little much. :-P07:45
lifelessonly after you burn it07:45
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
=== sjoerd_ is now known as sjoerd
pittimneptok: owch08:43
mneptokpitti: it's just that i think of you as hot and sweet. or something like that. :P08:50
Treenaksmneptok: are you part of the Pitti Fanboy team on launchpad yet then? :)08:52
torkelmneptok: Crème pitti? :-)08:53
mneptokTreenaks: i refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. i have some prinicples.08:53
Treenaksmneptok: maybe you'll be rejected, I'm not the team admin08:53
* pitti drops a metric ton of gummybears onto mneptok09:00
* mneptok gleefully frees himself09:02
mneptokNOM NOM NOM09:02
liw"NOM NOM NOM"?09:14
Treenaksliw: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nom09:15
* lukehasnoname is away: sleep09:16
ion_lukehasnoname: Thanks a lot for the information! We were just wondering about that.09:17
ion_liw: The equivalent of "nam" in Finnish. :-)09:18
ion_Hm, perhaps not exactly.09:18
seb128pitti: arg, it did it again, bug #25780309:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 257803 in gedit "gedit crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25780309:28
seb128pitti: the retracer removed everything including the debug stacktrace09:28
mdzpitti: bug 195749 doesn't include a DistroRelease field...is that because we need to add it to the kernel hook?09:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 195749 in openjdk-6 "java hangs then crash in libc6/kernel" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19574909:35
=== cjo20 is now known as Seeker`
pittiseb128: hm, if it does that often, maybe stop it for now?10:14
pittimdz: that was reported with the aaaaancient kernel hook (which we never really used in our kernel pacakge)10:15
pittiindeed that one didn't add OS info, like DistroRelease10:16
mdzpitti: ah, ok10:22
mdzpitti: that was the first apport-kernel bug I have seen, didn't notice how old it was10:22
seb128pitti: it just does when retracing again a bug10:27
seb128pitti: I did retag this one because the retracer didn't have the new gedit version yet10:27
tseliotpitti: I managed to write something which should work with the way you implemented the progress bar in Jockey. I had to subclass apt.Cache. Now I have only a question on progress_cb(phase, current, total): phase is either 'download' or 'install' but what are "current" and "total"? Is current the current percentage of work and total 100% or do you have something different in mind?10:30
pittitseliot: the only requirement is that current eventually reaches total10:31
pittitseliot: could be number of pacakges, or percent, or whatever you need10:31
pittitotal == 1.0, and current = 0.37, or total = 1000 and current = 37210:31
pittior total == 5 (packages) and current == 2 (second package)10:31
tseliotpitti: great, I'll use the percentage10:32
tseliotpitti: oh, another thing, is it ok if I make the apt part run on a different thread?10:33
pittitseliot: sure, if that helps10:33
tseliotpitti: yes, that's what I used in my implementation10:34
pittiseb128: it's done in apport/crashdb_impl/launchpad.py, close_duplicate(); nowhere else; so I think the duplicate detection is on crack and tries to mark the bug as a dup of itself10:37
seb128pitti: maybe it needs a "if dup_number == bug_number" case?10:37
pittiseb128: I think a simple "if id == master: return" at the top of that function should be a good enough patch for the retracers until I'm back from vacation; please report a bug agout it10:37
pittiseb128: 'zactly :-P10:37
seb128pitti: ok thanks10:37
pittiseb128: if you do that in the chroots, the next apport package update will overwrite it, but then we should have a better solution anyway10:38
seb128pitti: ok, I'll do the change10:38
* seb128 hugs pitti10:39
slytherinCan anyone please tell me if anyone is working on packaging elisa 0.5.5?10:40
pittilool: ^10:41
loolHey; I'm not currently, but philn might have prepared something in pkg-gstreamer svn10:42
loolAt least 0.5.4 is ready there10:42
loolAnd 0.5.5 should be easy to get10:42
loolslytherin: ^10:42
seb128lool: do you know if somebody from the mobile team will do the cheese 2.23 update?10:43
loolseb128: Gary said he was interested, but this was a while ago10:45
loolseb128: I'm basically the sponsor here; we had hildon bits to push in earlier cheese, but this now all upstream and merged and all10:45
seb128lool: right, I let the updates on the side because I don't use cheese and you guys do it usually but we had none of the 2.23 update10:46
loolI don't even have a webcam, so I'm quite a bad tester for cheese  ;)10:46
seb128right, me neither10:46
seb128anybody interested to update cheese?10:46
loolseb128: If you like, drop tremolux an email and ask him for a status update?10:46
seb128lool: ok, I'll do that, thanks10:46
loolseb128: I'm happy to do the reviewing and sponsoring of his work or of somebody's else; it just doesn't make sense for me to do it as I don't have a webcam to test!10:47
slytherinseb128: I can test cheese on intrepid. I will see if I can update it to but that will be after Monday.10:52
seb128slytherin: ok, thanks10:52
slytherinlool: Thanks for elisa info. I hope I will find it in repositories before FF. :-)10:53
ograseb128, !!!11:22
ograUnable to retrieve message11:22
ograCannot create folder lock on /home/ogra/.evolution/mail/local/Inbox: Too many open files11:22
ogramy evo misbehaves11:22
seb128hey ogra! nice to see you back, how are you?11:22
ografine, thanks :)11:22
seb128ogra: close and restart it?11:23
seb128it seems to leak file descriptors in some cases11:23
ograi wasnt actually bad apart from the 15 mins .... they only kept me locked in for a week to do tests11:23
ogralets see, closing now11:23
ograah, yeah, better now11:24
seb128cool, there is a bug about the issue already so no need to open one11:25
ograseb128, beyond that it seems to have gotten slower over the last week ...11:25
seb128since the 2.23.6 update you mean?11:25
ograafter the initial upgrade from hardy to intrepid it took about 1-2sec switching folders11:25
seb128that's the first version using sqlite for summary storage11:25
ogranow that can take up to 5-1011:25
seb128there is still some optimization work needed11:26
seb128they are working on it a lot, wait for tarball next week to see if things are better11:26
ograyeah, i just noticed it seems to have degraded since the first upgrade11:26
seb128the new code was not really optimized for some cases11:26
seb128I had evo freeze for some seconds when using my bugmails box for example, which was due to the hidden messages handling11:27
ogra(i'm not complaining, just giving feedback :) )11:27
seb128I hide everything which is read there, they fixed the bug in svn11:27
seb128but there is likely some other non optimized cases11:27
seb128they are working on it and really responsive to issue reported so file a bug if you still get the issue in the new version11:28
ograyeah, i have no hidden msgs ... but lots of folders wih big amounts of mails11:30
tseliotpitti: I get this error now: http://pastebin.com/m4371b4c0 . If I run my program outside of Jockey it works well. Maybe is it because of what you do in dbus_sync_call_signal_wrapper() (in backend). I wouldn't know. Any ideas? It's all in my branch: ~albertomilone/jockey/ubuntu-core-xkit11:32
ograseb128, right, i'll wait for the next tarball, lets see :)11:34
pittitseliot: what do you try to do?11:39
pittitseliot: do you call a function which takes very long to execute?11:40
tseliotpitti: I only clicked on a new driver, typed in the password for policykit and then that error shows up11:40
tseliotpitti: I use python-apt to install the package11:41
pittitseliot: maybe d-bus is not thread-safe enough to do that, I don't know :(11:41
tseliotpitti: if you have a look at install_package in oslib you will see what I'm doing11:41
pittitseliot: sorry, no time right now11:42
tseliotpitti: ok, no problem. I'll see if I can find something with Google about the error11:42
seb128tseliot: you are not subscribed to the nvidia-graphics-drivers-177 bugs?11:47
seb128tseliot: there is quite come crasher for nvidia users in intrepid for some days when using compiz, I've reassigned bugs there11:48
tseliotseb128: yes, I'm subscribed. I've been very busy though. What's the number of the bugreport?11:49
seb128tseliot: are you sure you are subscribed? you are not listed on bugs11:49
tseliotseb128:  I see it in my "bugs" folder in my mail client. I'm part of the X team11:50
seb128ah ok11:50
seb128tseliot: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bugs, all the crashes in _nv*11:51
tseliotseb128: ok, let me have a look at those reports11:52
seb128tseliot: they don't seem really useful, I just wanted to let you know that quite some nvidia users seem to have compiz crashing in intrepid11:53
tseliotseb128: thanks for bringing this to my attention11:54
seb128you're welcome ;-)11:54
tseliotseb128: BTW do you have a look at my 3 lines patch here? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54696911:59
ubottuGnome bug 546969 in Screen resolution "The GUI components do not always reflect the current situation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]11:59
seb128tseliot: GNOME will roll new tarballs next week, I'll try to get the patch reviewed before that12:00
tseliotseb128: thanks a lot ;)12:00
seb128thank you for working on the bug ;-)12:00
didrockshi all ;)12:14
didrockspitti: when you will have the time, I'm interesting to know how NBS are calculated.12:15
didrocksIndeed, it seems to not look at package dependencies as some times, we have 3 dependecies for one source package. ldd on the binary seems to not put the same result...12:15
MaximLevitskyThe desktop effects currently doesn't respect ccsm settings, will this be fixed/12:18
MaximLevitskyI meant if I select advanced/basic there the custom settings are cleared12:19
MaximLevitskyI would like to use this dialog to switch between compiz and metacity, but without alerting the settings12:20
persiadidrocks: NBS is based on declared binary package dependencies.  This may not match the current source package (if successful builds have yet to publish (common in cases where the build fails)), and may not match ldd or similar tools depending on both the correctness of the analysis of those tools and the declared dependencies.12:32
mneptokpersia: konban-wa12:34
mneptokpersia: the convincing argument. "you can lose weight just by blinking in the summer."12:36
didrockspersia: thanks a lot and that guide me through my second (big) technical questions: how ${shlibs:Depends} are calculated regarding build dependencie, it assumes runtime ones? :)12:37
persiadidrocks: man dh_shlibdeps for an overview, and read /usr/bin/dh_shlibdeps for the details.12:38
didrocksok, I will give it a look ;)12:38
Adri2000any archive admin could please move the amsn sru to -updates? (at least the hardy one)12:39
sistpoty|workdidrocks: if you're looking for insight, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/LibraryPackaging might be helpful (but it's quite a read)12:43
didrockssistpoty|work: thanks for the link, I will add it to my reading schedule :)12:45
MaximLevitskyI have one quesion, is the 'NEEDED' section needed :-)12:52
MaximLevitskywithout it linker won't find the symbols?12:52
sistpoty|workMaximLevitsky: well, you could do without, if the shared object defines all the symbols itself I guess, but I wouldn't know a use case for this right now12:53
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work: I don't understand you (I once did a deep research on linking, but forgot most of it now)12:54
MaximLevitskyI mean if a library needs a symbol from external library, does it have to add that library as NEEDED ?12:55
sistpoty|workMaximLevitsky: yes12:55
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work:  this is great12:55
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work: I remember that I once tried to understand how to write a depends.exe equivalent for linux12:56
* sistpoty|work wouldn't know what a depends.exe is in the first place *g*12:57
MaximLevitskyLong long time ago (about 8 years from now I used and programmed in windows_12:57
MaximLevitskydepends.exe shows you what libraries(dlls) are needed for this application, and for each dll, it shows list of symbols12:58
MaximLevitskythat app use, and list  of symbols that dll exports12:59
sistpoty|workso a mixture of ldd and objdump, right?12:59
MaximLevitskymore or less, but it gets the information directly from .exe, and .dll13:00
MaximLevitskylinking is a bit different there13:00
MaximLevitskyeach app has a list of dlls that it needs13:00
MaximLevitskyand for each dll there is a list of symbols it needs13:01
MaximLevitskyhere in ELF there is just a list of all symbols13:01
MaximLevitskyso to know from where the symbol come, one needs to know what libraries the app needs13:02
MaximLevitskyI was thinking that ld.so just searches all libraries on the system for any symbol13:02
MaximLevitskyusing cache to speed this up13:03
sistpoty|workerm, no. library resolution is done exactly with the NEEDED entries13:05
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work: this is just great13:05
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work:  although if I were to write such program, I will probably need to parse outputs of objdump and ldd, right?13:06
MaximLevitskyelf probably has platform specific differencies13:07
sistpoty|workMaximLevitsky: sorry, am not 100% sure about ELF internals, but I guess I'd use objdump (or readelf) as a base13:07
MaximLevitskyBtw ldd is just a frontend to ld.so13:07
MaximLevitskyjust a script that exports some env variable, and then runs the program, and this makes ld.so output the depedencies, and exit13:08
MaximLevitskythis is what I remember from that old study13:09
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work:  another interesting this is that global data variables in a library are reverse exported13:11
MaximLevitskyapp exports the variable to the library13:11
MaximLevitskysistpoty|work: thanks for information13:13
MaximLevitskyBtw, why all devel packages install .a libraries?13:15
MaximLevitskywho uses static linking those days?13:15
MaximLevitskyAs I understand to write code against a library you need .h files and .so normal library, thats all13:16
ograKeybuk, if i run telinit 6 (or shutdown -r -now) and get "Unable to send message: Connection refused", do you have a hint for me for what i should look to make that functional ?13:46
ogra(that shows up recently in my classmate installer out of the blue)13:46
Keybukogra: not running init?13:47
ograright, i run a script that fires up the cmpcinstaller13:47
ograbut it used to work in the last builds13:47
ogra(about a week ago)13:47
ulaasanyone interested on  an initramfs issue with hardy? or #ubuntu is the way?13:47
Keybukif you're not running Upstart, you obviously can't do things like change the runlevel?13:47
ograwas there any change in hardy-updates within the last week ?13:48
ograi dont need to ... i used to just run "reboot -fp" which should just trgger the kernel13:48
Keybukno, no change13:48
Keybukif you do reboot -f, you are just telling the kernel13:48
ograbut thats getting stuck ... so i looked at shutdown ...13:48
Keybukif it's getting stuck, that's a kernel bug13:49
ograah, k so it must be a kernel issue13:49
Keybuktelinit and shutdown won't work, and I would be surprised if _they_ worked last week ;)13:49
* ogra waits for smb then 13:49
ograwho apparently built the new classmate kernel for colin last week13:49
ograKeybuk, thanks that was the missing info :)13:49
ograno, i never used or tried telinit or shutdown ... i just didnt understand why they exposed the msg13:50
ograbut its logical since i ont use upstart or normal init13:50
pittijpds: yay, great to see buildd.py getting so many improvements :)13:59
seb128pitti: oh? where?13:59
pittiseb128: ubuntu-dev-tools 0.39ubuntu113:59
seb128ah good14:00
pittione thing less to maintain personally in my ~/bin :)14:00
* pitti kills the one on people.u.c.14:01
* pitti sobs at the obviously broken listadmin14:03
loolAnd I was looking at launchpad web pages to see buildd status, sigh14:04
pittilool: buildd.py does that as well14:04
loolI think I'll hack buildd to unset https_proxy though14:04
loolpitti: Yeah, that's what I discovered!14:04
pittiI also have yet another wrapper giveback which calls buildd.py repeatedly with a set of packages14:04
loolpitti: That I was stupidly browsing web pages instead of typing a command line!14:04
pittibut that's trivial14:04
pittilool: wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/GettingRidOfTheDesktop14:05
loolpitti: EPAGE14:05
Hobbseebroken listadmin?  :(14:06
pittijust shows "nothing in queue" for all lists14:06
Hobbseeah, yes.14:06
pittiwhich made me first think "wow, thanks elmo for installing a great spam filter"14:07
Hobbseeyes, that's what i thought, too14:07
pittibut when I actually looked at the web page, they are full with requests14:07
Keybukwho's Chris Coulson?14:09
james_wKeybuk: he's a bug triager, quite active currently14:10
Keybukdoes he IRC?14:11
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
HobbseeKeybuk: as ChrisCoulson14:12
X-SetiI may have a bug for you guys, this is ubuntu 8.04, and 8.10 with 1Gig of ram installed, Swap is being heavy used, alot of HD activity. ?14:16
X-SetiI know this isnt the support channel, but whats been changed since 7.10?14:17
liw"almost everything" is a good guess14:17
ion_You installed and started the memory-hungry piece of software.14:17
X-Setiis there a way to reduce HD load, running a server like this, im ganna go through some HDś14:18
X-SetiI know the beauty of ubuntu, but ive never seen it be so HD heavy14:19
X-Setiok, im going to debug a tool i think might be the problem and postbin you the outs..14:19
liwX-Seti, use the top command (on the command line) or gnome-system-monitor or some other tool to see what is using the memory; before you know that, any changes you make are pure guesswork14:19
ion_Hit > once in top and it sorts by memory usage.14:22
liw"RSS" is the relevant column, I think14:27
X-Setitrying to compare something, i have 2 machines with 8.10 and 8.0414:29
X-Setii think the problem is network manager14:30
ion_How much resident memory has it allocated?14:30
=== superm1|away is now known as superm1
pittiseb128: ugh; apt-get install from relatively small (retracer) chroots: 12.1 MB pidgin vs. 31.6 MB telepathy14:35
pitti(packed .debs)14:35
seb128pitti: be careful, pidgin is a GTK application where telepathy uses the GNOME stack14:36
seb128pitti: you should try to apt-install it on a livecd rather14:36
pittiright, it pulls in libcamel, e-d-s and a lot of stuff we already have14:36
pittiseb128: I guess in the end we just have to change the seeds, build a CD, and look what comes out of it14:36
pittiseb128: did you stop the amd64 retracer on purpose after the chroot upgrade?14:37
ulaaspitti: where should i go for my boot problem with hardy kernels..14:39
ulaasi use an md array for root14:39
pittiulaas: which problem?14:41
ulaaspitti: upgraded from dapper to hardy with do-release-upgrade. now initramfs prompt comes at boot with new kernels. my old dapper kernel boots fine. I have my / on raid1 md14:42
seb128pitti: oh, no, I switched to the i386 one while it was doing the upgrade and forgot to reconnect to the screen and restart it14:43
ulaaspitti: any recommendations?14:45
pittiulaas: I'd check the root parameter in grub, and which devices are present in the initramfs shell (/dev/...)14:49
pittiulaas: I don't know how well you know linux, like "/dev/" -- at which level should we guide you?14:49
pittiseb128: restarted14:49
pittiulaas: it could be that the newly built initramfs somehow missed the lvm and mdadm packages, or the root device changed14:50
seb128pitti: danke14:50
ulaasi have built the initrd  a few times manually as well. i have tried to comment out uuid entries in fstab and replace with /dev substitutes. i may be able to check if initramfs loads the correct modules but i think it does. you can guide me hardcore :)14:52
ion_tkamppeter: Hm, so there must be a change to /usr/share/ppd/openprinting/HP/hp_LaserJet_2300.ppd.gz in order to get the PDF filter path to work for my printer? Is that something that could be done automatically?14:53
ulaasi am just near the my server! and can try anytink you ask right away..14:53
ulaaspitti: as more info i ve tried -16 and -19 both generic and server14:54
tkamppeterion_, for now all CUPS Raster drivers and all foomatic-rip-based drivers run through PDF, at least when the input datra14:56
tkamppeterdata is PDF or an image.14:56
pittiulaas: ah, UUIDs are good, please keep them14:56
pittiulaas: are they present in /dev/disks/by-uuid/ in the initramfs prompt?14:56
ulaaspitti: i am rebooting now...14:57
tkamppeterToday I will upload an updated foomatic-db to make also all RICOH PPDs use the PDF workflow.14:57
tkamppeterion_, native PostScript printer PPDs do not do a PDF workflow as they have no cupsFilter line. Try to force the PDF workflow by:14:58
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
ion_tkamppeter: Yeah, this is a postscript printer.14:59
tkamppeter1. Add "application/vnd.cups-pdf application/vnd.cups-postscript 0 pdftops" to /etc/cups/mime.convs15:00
ion_tkamppeter: Could the cups package itself do that?15:00
tkamppeter2. Remove the executable bit from "pstops"15:00
tkamppeter3. Restart the CUPS daemon15:00
ion_tkamppeter: Because if it could, i could prepare a patch.15:01
tkamppeterThen report whther printing still works for you, especially whether you can supply options to the jobs and the options are correctly executed by the printer.15:01
tkamppeterTry also to priont from OOo with options.15:01
ion_Ok, i’ll do that.15:01
tkamppeterion_, patches welcome15:02
ulaaspitti: booted into initramfs. i can see that the by-uuids are there. but may be different from the ones than fstab? should i make sure?15:05
Keybuk 15:06:28 up 136 days,  5:02,  1 user,  load average: 10.29, 4.75, 2.5215:06
pittiulaas: are you using only RAID, or LVM etc. as well?15:11
pittiulaas: does it have a particular error message? cannot "find" or "mount" the root fs, etc.?15:11
ulaasonly raid. and i get Alert! cannot find /dev/root error. there is no /dev/root  instead i have /dev/rootmirror/root and also swap15:13
ulaasoh wait i have /dev/root15:13
pittiulaas: what is the root= parameter in grub?15:13
ulaaspitti : good question i have lilo15:13
pittiulaas: lilo.conf has the parameters, too15:14
ulaaspitti: will boot into old kernel and let you know. but before what do you thşnk about the uuids. if they are different in fstab and by-uuid folder, does it effect?15:14
pittiulaas: yes, definitively15:15
pittithey need to be identical to the letter in order to find the partition15:16
ulaaspitti: cool. will check that first15:16
ograpitti, did my initramfs-tools and casper changes from yesterday make it on the CDs ?15:16
ogra(or was there some kind of freeze in place i missed)15:16
pittiogra: the alternates are from Tuesday, so not there15:17
pittithe desktops got rebuilt due to the ubiquity bug, so it should be there15:17
ogracasper :)15:17
pitticheck the .list/.manifest files :)15:17
ograi need some testing of that stuff and promised colin to have it in alpha415:17
ogracasper 1.138 :(15:18
ograone version to old15:18
pittisorry, I wasn't aware that you needed to squeeze something on alpha415:18
ograi was late only pushed it in last night15:19
ograthe builds are from yesterday afternoon15:19
ograwell, thats hw it goes :/15:19
ogracolin wanted ot have support for live on 256M back in place but i guess that then has to wait for alpha515:20
ograthe code is at least there now15:20
ulaaspitti: uuids are ok. i have checked lilo.conf and root=/dev/mapper/rootmirror-root. worth a try for /dev/rootmirror/root ?15:21
pittiulaas: hm, /dev/rootmirror/root doesn't sound standard at all15:21
pittiulaas: ideally it should just be root=UUID=DEADBEEF15:21
ograpitti, in case you run nto any showstopper and rebuild, please please ping me so i know the stuff went in15:22
ulaaspitti: if you are positive that lilo is ok with uuids i can punch it in..15:22
pittiogra: don't think so, sorry; I'm about to release, all images are tested15:23
pittiulaas: lilo shouldn't care15:23
pittiulaas: it's just a parameter passed to the kernel15:23
pittiulaas: lilo only cares about your /boot/ partition15:23
pittiwhich you have to set in, erm, lilo is been a while...15:23
pittiulaas: right, root = /dev/whateveryourrootpartitionis in lilo.conf15:24
ulaaspitti: i am always ok with grub if it suports md boot partitions. does it?15:24
ulaasok i will try root=/dev/rootmirror/root15:25
pittiulaas: sorry, that was BS, don't believe me15:25
pittiulaas: the /boot partition is figured out by lilo automatically, taken from the image= parameter15:25
pittiulaas: so boot=UUID=12345 should work15:26
pittiulaas: I don't think grub can have /boot on RAID; ICBW, but don't rely on it15:26
ulaaspitti: deal! I ll let you know.15:26
pittiulaas: argh15:26
pittiulaas: not boot=UUID, but root=UUID, of course15:26
pittiulaas: sorry, doing too much other stuff15:26
ulaaspitti: dont worry. i got it15:26
pittiulaas: you should be able to change that on the lilo prompt, shuoldn't it? then you don't need to re-lilo all the time15:27
ulaaspitti: i believe it depends if you set that up.? what was that? "prompt" in lilo.conf?15:28
tseliotpitti: I did it!!! We have nice progress bar now in Jockey!15:36
* pitti dances around15:36
pittitseliot: yay!15:37
tseliotpitti: I have yet to try the KDE progress bar though. The mechanism works.15:38
tseliotpitti: gobject.threads_init() and glib.init_threads() are required for threading, that was the problem15:38
pittitseliot: I wouldn't have known that either15:39
tseliotpitti: let's thank Google then ;)15:39
ulaaspitti: done! uuid is good. Should i file a bug? if yes for which component?15:40
* tseliot tries jockey-kde15:40
pittiKeybuk: which package rewrote devices to UUIDs on upgrade again? udev?15:41
pittiulaas: we might not have an automigration for lilo, I'm not sure; I think Keybuk needs to take over here15:41
pittiulaas: but glad to hear that it worked15:41
ulaaspitti: hmm not yet! :) ı have appended from lilo prompt. when it is in lilo.conf it is a syntax error. can it be with quoets? ("")15:43
ulaaslets google15:43
pittiulaas: according to man lilo.conf, you can use key = "value"15:44
Keybukpitti: I think it's in udev or vol_id15:45
ulaası am a genius :) so as you are :)15:45
ulaasKeybuk: i think you watched the conversation.15:45
=== pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
ulaasKeybuk: do you need somethink from me? this may be an important one. from LTS to LTS may be a common upgrade15:46
Keybukulaas: err?15:47
Keybukassume that I did not watch a conversation15:47
tseliotpitti: the funny thing is that now Jockey installs the driver only if I start the backend with sudo...15:47
pittitseliot: as opposed to getting it autolaunched from d-bus?15:47
tseliotpitti: however the progress bar works for kde too15:47
tseliotpitti: yes15:47
BenCCan someone please tell gnome-terminal to stop crashing when I try to select text with the mouse15:48
pittitseliot: try changing the .service file to use --logfile=/tmp/jockey-backend.log15:48
pittitseliot: last time it was due to d-bus not setting any $PATH15:48
pittitseliot: or other environment variable15:48
dholbachBenC: I filed the bug yesterday - seems it's fixed in vte upstream already15:48
pittitseliot: oh, and --debug, of course15:48
ulaasKeybuk: ok.! i have upgraded my dapper to hardy. which is on a raid1 MD array. then i goot initramfs prompt with hardy kernels when booting. old dapper kernel boots fine.15:48
pittitseliot: then you get a nice log even from autospawned daemon15:49
* pitti phews and is glad that alpha-4 is out15:49
Keybukulaas: no idea without extensive debugging, I'm afraid15:49
BenCdholbach: ah, thanks, saves me the time of filing a bug...any chance you have a deb of the fixed version?15:49
ulaasKeybuk: after a research with pitti he found out that root=UUID=dhjdhdh is better than what dapper had.15:49
ulaasKeybuk: in lilo.conf15:49
pittiKeybuk: do we do lilo.conf automigration to uuids?15:49
pittiKeybuk: or just in grub's menu.list?15:49
pittiok, that explains it then15:50
dholbachBenC: no, I'm sorry - I leave that to mvo and seb128 :)15:50
Keybukif we do, it'll be in lilo's postinst15:50
Keybukwe may skip raid, lvm, etc.15:50
seb128mvo: ^ can you do the vte update?15:50
Keybuksince we didn't deal with those in dapper15:51
Keybukand we may have forgotten lilo since15:51
ulaasKeybuk: so people wıth MD roots may have the same problem right?15:51
mvoseb128: yes15:51
mvodholbach: what is the bugnumber?15:51
Keybukulaas: only if they use lilo15:51
dholbachmvo: need to check15:51
seb128mvo: http://download.gnome.org/sources/vte/0.17/vte-0.17.2.tar.gz15:51
ulaasKeybuk:  i see! if you are not interested with details i gotta go.. do you?15:52
pedro_mvo: bug 25676915:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 256769 in vte "gnome-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in vte_terminal_extend_selection()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25676915:52
mvothanks pedro_15:52
Keybukulaas: not at the moment, sorry15:52
Keybukothers will be interested15:52
ulaasKeybuk: no problem i am a registered member at launchpad. Easy to find.15:52
ulaaspitti: thanks for the quaility time :)15:53
seb128dholbach: could you do the brasero update sponsoring? tomorrow is an holiday and I've still lot to do today, would be nice to have the new version uploaded though15:53
tseliotpitti: basically I get the policykit dialog, then the progress bar shows up for a few seconds without progressing and nothing happens. Here's the log: http://pastebin.com/m33310df015:53
dholbachseb128: will do15:53
seb128dholbach: danke15:53
pittitseliot: hm, seems you need to add some logging.debug() calls of your own15:57
tseliotpitti: ok, I'll do it and see what happens15:58
seb128dholbach: could be interesting to use http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/brasero?view=revision&revision=1084 too in the update if you can, upstream asked to try the change, that can wait for next version too though16:01
seb128dholbach: don't bother, they roll tarball often enough16:02
dholbachseb128: ok16:03
=== superm1 is now known as superm1|away
asacpitti: congrats on getting alpha-4 out in time16:10
pittiasac: thanks16:10
pittiI almost forgot how painful that was :)16:10
asacpitti: so the the livecd fix from mario work?16:10
pittiasac: yes16:10
seb128does anybody else have refresh issues in emacs in intrepid?16:10
* seb128 hugs pitti16:10
asacpitti: cool, rock on.16:10
seb128pitti: does that mean we can upload crack again? ;-)16:11
pittiseb128: go wild!16:11
pittiseb128: vim is fine *duck*16:11
asacyay ... me looking at what NM snapshot might be wild enough ;)16:11
seb128pitti: I'm using gedit ;-)16:11
seb128asac: do you know about static config not working in nm0.7?16:11
seb128asac: the ok button stays inactive16:11
tseliotmvo: would it be possible to make apt.Cache.commit() look like this? def commit(self, fetchProgress=None, installProgress=None, optionalObject=None):16:12
asacseb128: it has rough edges16:12
asacseb128: which button?16:12
asacseb128: ah static IP16:12
asac(for a moment i thought you meant "system config"16:12
asacseb128: wireless?16:12
seb128asac: right click on the nm icon, edit connection, choose a static interface, edit, ipv4 settings, set to manual, the button stay unactive16:12
seb128asac: no, wired eth16:13
tseliotmvo: never mind, ignore my request16:13
asacseb128: i think i saw that issue when i was still on that snapshot. but i am long gone on more recent snapshots. its fixed there. upload will probably happen today or tomorrow ( i am trying to flash out final issues in VPN)16:14
asacseb128: you could check that in ~network-manager PPA ... or just wait a few more hours16:14
seb128asac: ok, so need to open a bug16:14
asacseb128: i dont think so.16:14
seb128ok cool16:15
asacseb128: did you add DNS server as well?16:15
seb128I don't need the change, somebody just raised the issue on the chan yesterday16:15
asacah ok16:15
seb128asac: I tried to file all the entries, ip, mask, gateway, dns, domain, etc16:15
seb128but the button stays unactive16:16
asacok. then thats really the issue i vaguely remember16:16
seb128I'll try after the update16:16
dholbachseb128: done16:17
* seb128 hugs dholbach16:17
seb128thank you16:17
dholbachde rien16:17
* dholbach hugs seb128 back16:17
=== superm1|away is now known as superm1
sorenAnyone still on hardy and wants to test a kvm fix for me? It's supposed to fix X in Intrepid guests. (not the mouse stuff, though. Just getting X rolling)16:30
dholbachsoren: me me me me!16:30
sorendholbach: Awesome. Kernel version?16:30
soren-20, by any chance?16:30
dholbach-20 amd64, yes16:31
sorendholbach: I'll just compile them especially for you :)16:32
dholbachsoren: give me the love!16:33
=== Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as Kopfi|offline
=== Kopfi|offline is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger
sorendholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~soren/kvm-test/16:35
sorendholbach: sudo bash -c 'rmmod kvm-intel ; rmmod kvm ; insmod ./kvm.ko ; insmod ./kvm-intel.ko'16:36
soren(or amd, obviously, if that's what you're on)16:36
dholbachjust a minute16:36
tseliotpitti: problem solved. I had to set os.environ["PATH"] and os.environ["DEBIAN_FRONTEND"] in oslib. Now it works.16:37
pittitseliot: hah, $PATH again16:37
sorendholbach: Wow, those modules are big...16:37
sorendholbach: Er... I'm sure there's some sort of reasonable explanation for that.16:37
sorenAh, they're not stripped.16:38
pittitseliot: did you set DEBIAN_FRONTEND to noninteractive?16:38
tseliotpitti: yes16:38
pittitseliot: interesting, which program does python-apt call? I thought it was pure python16:38
tseliotpitti: only mvo can answer to this ;)16:39
pittitseliot: or strace -f -e execve :)16:39
mvotseliot: hm? I missed the earlier part16:40
tseliotmvo: jockey starts a dbus service which should call python apt when requested by the client16:41
=== Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as Kopfi|offline
=== Kopfi|offline is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger
mvotseliot: that is a good question, I think that dpkg gets unhappy when it can not find certain apps, so if the path does not include e.g. /sbin it could fail I guess16:41
pittiaah, indeed, that was it16:42
pittibecause in my first version I called /usr/sbin/apt-get, and that just failed with the same error (dpkg wanting $PATH)16:42
pitti        env = {16:42
pitti            'DEBIAN_FRONTEND': 'noninteractive',16:42
pitti            'PATH': '/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin'16:42
tseliotmvo: ok, this would make sense16:42
pitti        }16:42
pittitseliot: ^ is what I have16:42
pittitseliot: I believe that shuold work for python-apt as well16:43
tseliotpitti: no, it doesn't16:43
pittitseliot: you need more in $PATH?16:43
tseliotpitti: this is why I had to use os.environ16:43
pittitseliot: right, of course16:43
pittitseliot: I meant the variables and their value16:43
dholbachsoren: so the modules work and everything?16:43
dholbachsoren: I'm not going to die or something?16:43
tseliotpitti: ah, ok then you're right16:44
pittitseliot: I can pass it to subprocess.Popen()'s env argument, with p-apt you can't16:44
sorendholbach: No, they should be fine.16:44
tseliotpitti: yes, I noticed that. I didn't pay enough attention to this and I ended up assuming that the env dictionary would magically work16:45
pittiah, no16:45
tseliotpitti: of course not, I didn't notice that it was a simple dictionary...16:45
dholbachsoren: now I should be able to boot the intrepid kernel and X starts?16:46
tseliotpitti: I'll clean the files a bit and push this commit soon16:46
sorendholbach: That's the theory, yes.16:46
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
tseliotmpt: can you give an advise on Jockey's UI, please?16:48
pittitseliot: is x-kit still in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/xorgparser/main/16:48
sorendholbach: You mouse might still be acting up, but X should come up.16:48
tseliotpitti: yes, it's there16:49
dholbachsoren: black screen, let me try without xorg.conf16:49
sorenOk, so there's more to it than I thought. The patch I applied there fixes it in Intrepid.16:50
seb128ArneGoetje: hi, do you plan to add the hunspell dictionnaries to the language support writting depends for languages where those are available?16:50
sorendholbach: I ran the command I sent?16:50
dholbachsoren: yes, just re-ran everything to make sure the modules weren't loaded before I started, trying again16:50
ArneGoetjeseb128: yes16:51
seb128ArneGoetje: ok good, thanks16:51
dholbachsoren: no... no love here :-/16:51
sorendholbach: Ok. Thanks for testing.16:51
pittitseliot: hm, if I run "PYTHONPATH=. tests/run", I just get failures with No such file or directory: '/home/martin/ubuntu/tmp/xorgparser/xorg.conf'16:51
seb128ArneGoetje: that's still missing for the spellchecking spec and feature freeze is soon16:51
* dholbach hugs soren16:51
pittitseliot: shouldn't this work on a temporary file which is created in setUp() or so?16:52
tseliotpitti: you can override the default settings. The default xorg.conf is the file included in the tests directory16:53
tseliotpitti: therefore you should enter that directory and run ./run from there16:53
tseliotpitti: or you can have a look at the README to see how "run" works16:54
mvoBenC: new vte uploaded to fix the crash when selecting text16:58
tseliotpitti: why do you call progress_cb with only 2 arguments when you remove packages and 3 when installing them?16:59
BenCmvo: thanks!17:00
seb128bigon: hi, bug #257189 is because the omf directory is not shipped in any deb17:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 257189 in empathy "No ghelp:empathy" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25718917:03
pittitseliot: aah, thanks17:03
pittitseliot: because there is no 'phase' on uninstall17:03
pittitseliot: README, tsk, noone reads that...17:04
* pitti hugs tseliot, just kidding17:04
tseliotpitti: fine, I just wanted to make sure that it could work17:04
tseliotpitti: ;)17:04
pittipeopel should totally rename them to SECRET_STUFF_CLASSIFIED.txt17:04
Keybukpitti: I think i might stir up more controversy in the kernel/plumbing community next week17:04
Keybukby suggesting that the kernel just make device nodes in /sys, so all udev has to do is chmod(), chown() and make symlinks in /dev17:05
pittitseliot: PYTHONPATH=. tests/run  -i tests/xorg.conf doesn't work either, though17:05
tseliotpitti: what's the error?17:06
pittiNo such file or directory: '/home/martin/ubuntu/tmp/xorgparser/xorg.conf'17:07
pittitseliot: I'd just like to call the test suite during build of the package17:07
tseliotpitti: and is there such file?17:07
pittitseliot: no, it should be xorgparser/tests/xorg.conf17:07
pittitseliot: if I specify -i tests/xorg.conf17:07
tseliotthe answer should be in settings.py17:08
tseliotpitti: ^^17:08
pittiinputFile = "tests/xorg.conf"17:08
* pitti recognizes the code structure in tests/run :)17:09
tseliotpitti: can you paste this into settings.py? http://pastebin.com/d1fd6d7d17:10
pittitseliot: no difference17:10
tseliotpitti: it works here. Did you install the package before running the tests?17:10
pittitseliot: no, I run it with PYTHONPATH=.17:11
pittitseliot: anyway, debian/rules could use17:11
pitti(cd tests; PYTHONPATH=.. ./run)17:11
pittithat works17:11
pittitseliot: that could look like17:11
pittierm, "::" at the end17:12
pitti        (cd tests; PYTHONPATH=.. ./run)17:12
pittiprovided that ./setup.py clean or debian/rules clean removes the test output and settings.py again17:12
tseliotpitti: does it work if you run each test singularly?17:13
metavoidpitti, does ubuntu have gnomesu installed by default, or with what *su it goes with?17:17
tseliotpitti: BTW I have just pushed an update to my xkit branch of Jockey. I have yet to clean xorg_driver.py and to add the tests though.17:17
pittimetavoid: gksu and gksudo17:21
metavoidpitti, that's a problem :(17:21
metavoidpitti, i'm looking for a common su for several distributions17:22
pittitseliot: btw, do you have the python-apt change in a separate branch?17:22
pittitseliot: I could merge that quickly into trunk, whereas I can't merge/upload the xkit branch so quickly17:22
pittitseliot: (I'm currently reviewing/uploading x-kit, but that needs to get to the archive and main first)17:23
tseliotpitti: I can create a new branch for the apt part17:23
pittitseliot: the two are unrelated, right? so it's easier to review if split by feature17:24
pittitseliot: oh, sorry, there's something that slipped past me before: the package name needs to be python-xkit17:24
pittitseliot: Python policy for consistent package names17:24
pittitseliot: shall I create a branch with my changes?17:25
tseliotpitti: yes, they don't depend on each ether17:25
pittitseliot: I'll do some minor tweaks to x-kit packaging and upload17:25
tseliotpitti: sure, thanks17:25
tseliotpitti: ok, I restored the original nvidia.py, fglrx.py and xorg_driver.py. The rest should be ok. It's all in this branch: ~albertomilone/jockey/ubuntu-core-apt17:37
pittisudo dpkg -i ../python-xkit_0.3.4_all.deb17:38
* pitti whistles17:38
pittitseliot: ok, uploaded, will beat through NEW in a minute; I put my changes into bzr; can you please do "bzr pull lp:~pitti/xorgparser/packaging-fixes"?17:39
tseliotpitti: sure17:39
pittitseliot: if you pull, it won't be a merge, but since I used your branch for Vcs-Bzr:, pull will look cleaner17:39
mpttseliot, any specific part of it, or the whole thing?17:40
pitti^ I think that refers to "how to represent the recommended driver"?17:40
tseliotmpt: we need to highlight the recommended version of a driver when more than 1 is provided. Have a look at these screen shots: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/jockey/jockey-bold.png17:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 244779 in gvfs "permission denied when removing a directory via SSH" [Low,Incomplete]17:42
tseliotpitti: ok, pulled17:42
pittitseliot: please review bzr log and the diffs, and let me know if anything is unclear to you, or you have objections17:43
mptThat intro text is depressingly long17:44
hwildempt, thats ok nobody reads it :)17:45
mptIf it was shorter, more people would read it17:45
hwildeyou could do one of those lightbulby things for the curious17:45
mpttseliot, what's the difference between "Enabled" and "In use"?17:45
tseliotmpt: Enabled means installed and set in the xorg.conf (I guess) while In use means that the module is loaded17:46
hwildeyou can enable proprietary drivers for something that is not in use, like maybe a removable media17:46
hwildedoesn't quite apply to your video card17:47
superm1hwilde, really?  i thought that it won't show up on the list unless the hardware is detected17:47
hwildelike a wireless card17:47
hwildeyou can enable atheros or whatever, but it won't be in use if you eject the card17:47
tseliothwilde: you can try it with your toaster too ;)17:47
pittitseliot: that branch has some is_recommended changes, I guess those are leftovers and I can kill them from that merge?17:47
pitti+        col1.set_attributes(text_renderer, markup=3)17:47
pittitseliot: ^ what does that do?17:47
pittitseliot: is that for the 'recommended' string?17:48
mpthwilde, so something can switch from "In use" to "Not in use", or vice versa, without a restart?17:48
tseliotpitti: no, don't remove them, that's the way we highlight the recommended driver version17:48
hwildempt,  I think it would switch from "In Use"  to "Enabled"17:48
pittitseliot: hm, when I merge from ubuntu-core-apt, bzr st says it is also merging in x-kit support et al17:48
pittitseliot: support for recommended driver should be merged to trunk, not to ubuntu17:49
tseliotpitti: col1.set_attributes(text_renderer, markup=3) says that column 3 should use the markup (e.g. <b></b>)17:49
mpthwilde, but it's already marked as "Enabled"17:49
pittitseliot: I think I'll just cherrypick the last 3 commits and merge the recommended parts to trunk17:49
pittitseliot: oh, I see, the last commit was "remove x-kit stuff" :)17:49
tseliotpitti: yes, right ;)17:50
pittitseliot: I guess that branch is pretty damaged, it should just be removed afterwards, but nevermind; I'll figure it out17:50
tseliotpitti: ok17:50
hwildempt,  so what is the difference?17:50
mpthwilde, that's what I'm asking y'all :-)17:50
pittitseliot: and I think I'll wait for mpt's verdict for merging the recommended support17:50
tseliotmpt: which one do you suggest that we use? Bold, underline, etc. or what?17:50
mpttseliot, so the mundane answer to your question is, I don't understand what the bold or the underline by itself is supposed to mean17:51
tseliotpitti: ok, no problem.17:51
mptI mean, you've told me that it means "Recommended", but I wouldn't have guessed that without you having told me.17:52
tseliotmpt: shall we use "[Recommended]" then?17:52
hwildempt, oh I am not much for semantics.   or guis for that matter.      or proprietary drivers :)17:52
mptThat would be better than the other two, yes17:52
mptHowever, that would still leave me wondering why they were checkboxes and not radio buttons17:52
mptand also why the non-recommended options were offered at all.17:52
tseliotmpt: you should ask pitti about the rest of the GUI17:53
mptIf I need to make a choice, help me make an informed choice, otherwise don't bother. :-)17:53
tseliotmpt: about the non-recommended options there is a reason.17:53
hwildehow about a slider bar that goes between "proprietary" and "free" and the users just slide it where they feel comfortable  ;)17:53
totopalmahi pitti :) can you take a look at bug #234754 please? :)17:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 234754 in rhythmbox "Launcher icon is fuzzy" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23475417:54
tseliotmpt: sometimes your cards are supported by one or more versions of the driver. We follow a certain criterion to determine which one you should install, however users might think differently17:54
pittitotopalma: sorry, not right now, about to runout17:54
totopalmapitti, ok17:55
pittitotopalma: please subscribe me and ask the question in the bug17:55
pittitseliot: any chance we could call gobject.threads_init() in oslib.py?17:55
pittitseliot: that would be cleaner, I'll move it there17:55
mpttseliot, ok, what's the criterion?17:55
pittitseliot: hm, will take me a while to merge, I don't like "from foo import *" etc.17:56
tseliotmpt: for example if you have 2 cards you might choose to select a driver which makes both of them work even though it's not the latest version which your new card supports. Sometimes you might want to ignore the old card and simply install the latest release of the driver because of its new features and make use of only you newer card17:56
* mpt admires his shiny new triple-boot startup menu17:57
tseliotpitti: what's the problem with gobject.threads_init()? that should be called before you perform those operations17:57
pittitseliot: right, but not in backend.py, we only need it in the ubuntu branch for python-apt17:58
pittitseliot: i moved it to OSLib.__init__()17:58
tseliotpitti: ok, but make sure that it works there ;)17:58
pittitseliot: yep, sure17:58
pittitseliot: do I actually need the TextFetchProgress stuff, or was that just for testing?17:59
mpttseliot, ok, so to be useful I think this list needs to give the benefit and drawback of each of the options17:59
pittitseliot: oh, "myobject", I see18:01
tseliotmpt: right. This would make sense only when users have 2 cards plugged in, otherwise the latest version is recommended. What should I say in the latter case?18:01
mpttseliot, why would you want two graphic cards to work at the same time?18:02
tseliotpitti: feel free to change the names, I had to pass an object in order to access the percentage from the outside18:02
ogrampt, for two monitors18:02
tseliotogra: right18:02
ograif you take two multihead cards even for four monitors .. though i doubt you find that wide mousepads :P18:03
pittitseliot: this fails the test suite, I'll track it down18:04
mptso for example, "Lets both your displays work, but does not allow Suspend."18:04
moquist_ogra: nearly done (again) with moodle 1.9.118:05
mptI guess there are all sorts of complicated reasons why you can't present a message like that18:05
ogramoquist_, yay18:05
tseliotmpt: if users have a problem with the recommended driver version, they will try another version. This is how it works (usually)18:06
tseliotmpt: for example maybe the recommended driver has a regression and you install another version, etc.18:06
* mpt now has blue/black streaks all across his display :-/18:07
mpttseliot, so what's the procedure for trying them? Do you need to restart between each one?18:09
tseliotmpt: yes, a restart is required (for common users...)18:09
TreenaksAm I the only one who keeps clicking "Remove from panel" instead of "Empty trash" ?18:10
pittitseliot: hm, I don't understand why this needs a separate thread - the outer thread just sleeps anyway?18:15
tseliotpitti: don't you need to run the while loop after you start the installation so that you can pass the "percent" with the progress_cb function?18:16
tseliotuntil the process is complete18:17
pittitseliot: right, but wouldn't it be easier to pass the callback down to the FetchProgress/Installprogress objects, and their pulse/updateStatus methods call that directly?18:17
pittitseliot: ok, let me play around with this18:18
mpttseliot, so if at all possible, I suggest presenting a human-readable explanation of what the selected driver does, in a second pane underneath the first. Otherwise I don't think jockey will be useful to nearly as many people as it could be.18:19
tseliotpitti: aah, calling that function directly from there. You would only have to pass that function instead of the object then18:19
mptSince it's presenting options without giving people the info they need to decide.18:19
pittitseliot: right, passing the callback down instead of the status up18:19
Adri2000pitti: could you please move the the hardy amsn sru to -updates? (bug #243722)18:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 243722 in amsn "amsn 0.97: login doesn't work anymore due to a protocol change" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24372218:20
tseliotpitti: yes, that would be possible18:20
pittitseliot: ok, playing more18:20
tseliotmpt: ok, I'll think about it. Thanks for your help18:21
pittiAdri2000: hardy and feisty are verified AFAICS, leaving gutsy and dapper18:21
mpttseliot, no problem, thanks for asking :-)18:22
Adri2000pitti: feisty has one "works for me" (+ mine of course), is that enough?18:22
pittiAdri2000: for me it is18:22
pittiok, I'm off for today18:29
* tseliot > dinner18:30
tkamppeterpitti, hi18:34
tkamppeterpitti, I have uploaded a new CUPS to SVN, this time with texttopdf18:34
tkamppetercan you upload it to Derbian and Ubuntu. Thanks.18:35
ogratkamppeter, he just said goodnight ... it is probably better if you mail him to make sure he gets the request18:37
tkamppeterogra, the "pitti has quit" did not appear, he always closes hios client when he leaves.18:38
jpdspitti: 'Tis a very nifty script indeed :)18:40
kirklandbryce: ping18:44
bryceheya kirkland18:45
kirklandbryce: hey, thought i'd run something X11-ish by you....18:46
kirklandbryce: Bug #257825, with patch18:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 257825 in xorg "pair xorg.conf with particular hardware" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25782518:46
BenCpitti, mdz: Updated my findings on bug 25563518:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 255635 in sysklogd "No messages in /proc/kmsg" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25563518:58
BenCpitti, mdz: In short, it's not a kernel bug18:58
KopfgeldjaegerDoes ufw output the iptable commands it uses anywhere?19:01
brycekirkland: mm, I think there may be a better solution than xorg.conf for this19:03
kirklandbryce: i figured as much.... i'm all ears19:03
kirklandbryce: basically, i want to be able to move my hard drive back and forth among multiple (ok, 2 for now) similar-but-not-the-same laptops, and have X just work (tm)19:04
brycekirkland: yeah19:04
brycekirkland: I think the right direction to go for this use case is the "no xorg.conf"19:04
kirklandbryce: and i recognize this is perhaps a little hackish, especially with xorg.conf going away and all19:04
jcristaukirkland: that already works, just not with nvidia?19:04
BenCbryce: btw, the gem patch doesn't apply to 2.6.26 or 2.6.27...missing some other updates in drm subsystem...any idea what those updates are?19:04
kirklandjcristau: then it doesn't work for me (or any of the other nvidia users out there)19:04
BenCbryce: I'm guessing it's something in -mm, but I hate to guess on this19:05
bryceBenC: no I don't, hmm19:05
bryceBenC: want me to put you in touch with keithp?  I bet he's the one to go to about this.19:06
BenCbryce: yeah, please19:06
brycekirkland: -nv or -nvidia ?19:07
kirklandbryce: well, i'm still having better experience (resolution, 3d) with -nvidia, unfortunately19:08
kirklandbryce: i try -nv once a week or so, just to check, though ;-)19:08
bryceok, so when you go xorg.conf-less, it comes up as -nv?19:08
jcristaunv won't get better anytime soon19:08
jcristauseeing how it's maintained by the same people as nvidia, and they want you to use the blob19:08
kirklandbryce: not sure....  gimme a minute to save all of my buffers and I'll restart X19:09
batsquidthe guided setup of ubuntu server 8.04 lts is great, but there's one place i always need help. partition disks. could more help be provided on each option here? Guided - use entire disk and set up LVM (Logical Volume Manager i presume, but i can't figure out if i want to do that). I have a 40GB disk and i want to use 1.5xRAM (768MB) for swap - or so i have been recommended. this screen is somewhat confusing19:09
emgenthello people19:09
batsquidor is swap taken care of under the hood by 8.04 ?19:11
bryceBenC: email away19:12
warrenhey, did do you folks have any URL's with flash confirmed to cause Flash 10 to crash?19:13
warreni'm trying to nail down a reproducer19:13
warrenI found one on sourceforge.net, but I need to reload until a random flash ad appears before it crashes.19:13
warrenso it isn't easy to reproduce there19:13
ograwarren, asac might know if he's still around at that time of day19:13
brycekirkland: ok anyway in general (not considering proprietary vs. open) for such a case is to just make the xserver aware that it needs to use thus and such driver for thus and such hardware19:13
ion_pitti: I already mentioned this to tkamppeter, but here’s a diff for cups (against current svn) consisting of a couple of bugfixes, http://heh.fi/tmp/cups.debdiff19:14
brycekirkland: I suspect the issue is that if it boots with -nv and "basically" work, there's not really a strong enough reason to force it to default to -nvidia for every user of that hardware19:14
kirklandbryce: okay, i'm booted xorg.conf-less19:15
BenCbryce: thanks19:15
kirklandbryce: the resolution is right, but the color depth isn't19:15
brycebut I agree with jcristau that waiting for nv to get better is a watching-the-paint-dry exercise19:15
kirklandbryce: how can I tell for sure what driver I'm using?  lsmod shows the nvidia driver loaded, but X isn't necessarily using that, right?19:16
brycelook in /var/log/Xorg.0.log19:17
kirklandbryce:         "Builtin Default nv Screen 0" for depth/fbbpp 24/3219:17
brycegrep LoadModule should do it19:17
mtrudelasac: I think I found a bug, presumably in network-manager-vpnc, in the version from the network-manager team PPA on Launchpad... the standard report a bug tool in Launchpad doesn't seem to me like the best of ways to report it, because I guess it would end up with the "normal" versions of NM in ubuntu? is there a better way to report what I've found?19:17
kirklandbryce: (II) LoadModule: "nv", but it also loaded "vesa"19:18
kirklandbryce: the rough color gradients make it look more like vesa19:18
asacmtrudel: what is your problem?19:18
bryceI think that's normal for xorg.conf-less boot19:18
asacmtrudel: the vpnc plugin is known to still have issues with the authentication dialog. if you see that: i am working on getting a fix out as soon as possible19:19
mtrudelah, i see19:19
bryceok yep so loading "nv" by default as I thought19:19
asacmtrudel: yes. most likely thats your issue19:19
mtrudelthat's precisely the problem I was having... looking a little bit at how to fix that, but given that I'm at work, the time I can put to this is limited :)19:20
kirklandbryce: so perhaps maintain a list of hardware that prefers the nvidia module?19:20
kirklandbryce: how can I force it to use nvidia?19:21
brycekirkland: we've got such a thing already, although I don't remember if it's set up for nvidia19:21
brycelook in /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/19:22
asacmtrudel: if you want to contribute to network-manager, feel free to jump in ... there are other things you could do - after your work :-P19:22
kirklandbryce: k, i see nv.ids, but no nvidia.ids19:22
mtrudelasac: already did some time ago, one patch even got in universe :)19:22
bryceI think we need to talk with tseliot, as he was working on hooking in envy/jockey and the proprietary drivers to use either the same or an analogous setup19:23
asacmtrudel: good.19:23
bryceso possibly there's already a solution in place we can reuse19:23
kirklandbryce: excellent, please point me the way19:23
kirklandbryce: i'm happy to seed that nvidia database with my card info :-)19:23
mtrudeli'm already pretty sure i've found something, but I'm struggling a bit with the patches19:24
brycekirkland: of course that also leaves the question of if we should prefer proprietary drivers in all cases where it works better, or only in cases where the hardware works no other way19:24
bryceI suspect for Ubuntu the principle is the latter not the former19:24
kirklandbryce: IMHO, when it works "better" ....19:24
kirklandbryce: yes, for Ubuntu, I agree19:24
kirklandbryce: it's both sad and frustrating to pay for hardware, and not be able to use it, when there is a way to do so19:25
bryceyeah no kidding19:25
kirklandbryce: that question could be discussed, i suppose, on ubuntu-devel@, in case others have opinions19:26
brycekirkland: probably a good idea19:26
kirklandbryce: but I hope we're in the majority ;-)19:26
brycekirkland: now, turning to your patch, I don't dislike it in principle.  It might be a good way to go.19:26
kirklandbryce: it's a neat, opt-in hack19:26
brycethe downsides are, that it's really solving a pretty specific use case (just -nvidia would need it I think)19:27
kirklandbryce: as soon as you have your xorg.conf set up the way you want, you "sign" it with "/etc/init.d/x11-common hwsign"19:27
brycehowever, I could see it get expanded to cover other kinds of wonky hardware or stuff not well supported by X's normal hotplug stuff19:27
kirklandbryce: and subsequent boots will always load that xorg.conf into place19:27
bryceof course it could be argued that such cases should be handled by fixing the hotplug, not via a workaround.19:28
brycebut it's a pretty clean workaround as far as workarounds go19:28
kirklandbryce: true, the idea behind it could also solve some silly minor issues to do with me changing the networking hardware, etc. from underneath the installed OS19:28
kirklandbryce: fortunately, i have the same eth/ath drivers in both laptops...  but in one machine, they're eth0/ath0, and in the other, they're eth1/ath1 :-)19:29
brycethere's also a potential downside in that it could confuse users - like if they signed their xorg.conf, then used some other tool that updated their xorg.conf, then rebooted it restores the original signed one19:29
bryceso I think if we go forward with it, we need to ensure it gets integrated or made compatible with X-kit, to detect and prevent such a situation19:30
kirklandbryce: okay, i'm not familiar with X-kit....19:30
brycein fact maybe we should think a bit more generically about alternate xorg.conf's, such as backup versions19:31
kirklandbryce: true...  I have 20+ xorg.conf's in my /etc/X11 :-P19:31
bryceX-kit is a new python xorg.conf parser library tseliot is putting together, that we'll be using with envyng and other tools19:31
bryceI wonder if we could stick them all in bzr ;-)19:32
bryceanyway, could you post an email summarizing the situation to ubuntu-x@?19:32
kirklandbryce: um, different that the description in the bug?19:33
brycethe description is fine I think19:34
kirklandbryce: okay, I'll write a one or two liner, and point to the bug19:34
brycemaybe include our discussion above19:35
kirklandbryce: sure, i'll summarize that19:35
brycecool.  and make sure to mention the need for making this work with envyng/jockey, since it involves -nvidia19:35
kirklandbryce: right, it sounds like it's mostly a matter of insufficient support for nvidia kit19:36
brycex-kit is uploaded to universe if you want to check it out19:36
kirklandbryce: will do19:36
bryceI'll comment a bit on the bug too19:36
kirklandokay.  i'm going to maintain an x11-common package with this patch in my ppa until we settle on something19:37
cody-somervilleIs cjwatson on vacation or something?19:48
cody-somervilleWait a tick, I can answer that question myself19:48
brycecody-somerville, yep19:48
brycecody-somerville, evand and slangasek are gone as well19:49
cody-somervilleAll the people I wanted to talk to :/19:49
cody-somervilleThey must have done this to me on purpose.19:49
* cody-somerville grumbles.19:49
superm1bryce, how long they all gone for, you know?19:50
tseliotkirkland: what happens when you change your graphics card? A new xorg.conf is generated?19:53
kirklandtseliot: please clarify that question....19:54
brycesuperm1: cjwatson is gone for the week.  the others are at debconf iirc so will be back after that.19:55
kirklandtseliot: what do you mean?19:56
tseliotkirkland: let's assume that you have an xorg.conf and a geforce 7300. You sign the xorg.conf. Then you buy a new NVIDIA card. What would happen at this point?19:56
tseliotkirkland: if what I write doesn't make any sense to you it might be because I'm quite tired ;)20:03
kirklandtseliot: ;-) .....20:04
kirklandtseliot: you boot your machine and it attempts to run with the old xorg.conf ... maybe it works, maybe it doesn't...  in any case, my suggested code hasn't taken any action yet20:04
kirklandtseliot: either it "just works", or you hack around until you get to the point at which it "works"20:05
kirklandtseliot: then you would consciously make the decision to "sign" this xorg.conf with hash of your current hw VGA configuration reported by lspci20:05
kirklandtseliot: by running "/etc/init.d/x11-common hwsign"20:06
kirklandtseliot: that copies the current xorg.conf, which you're "certifying", to a new xorg.conf appended with a md5sum of your hw configuration20:06
kirklandtseliot: on subsequent boots, if a change in hardware (lspci | grep VGA) is detected....20:07
kirklandtseliot: x11-common will look for a "signed" xorg.conf matching the md5sum20:07
kirklandtseliot: and if found, that one is used20:07
kirklandtseliot: otherwise, no additional action is taken20:07
kirklandtseliot: so to answer your question, really, it's just the conscious step of "certifying" your working xorg.conf by running the "hwsign" init script action20:08
kirklandtseliot: perhaps that could be more automatic with this x-kit thing?20:08
tseliotkirkland: aah, I understand now. It's more or less what I suggested here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1368826&postcount=1020:08
tseliotkirkland: of course your solution is a lot saner20:09
tseliotkirkland: it depends on what you would like to do with X-Kit20:11
kirklandtseliot: Yup :-)20:12
kirklandtseliot: hashing it gives uglier filenames, but a virtually infinite space for avoiding collisions20:13
joaopintognome-terminal is crashing when selecting a section is of text, is anyone aware of a record for this bug ?20:14
tseliotkirkland: this trick wouldn't work if you wanted to switch between fglrx and nvidia and vice versa20:15
kirklandtseliot: because of the gl libraries?20:15
jcristautseliot: or between fglrx or nvidia and anything else, really20:16
tseliotkirkland: yes20:21
tseliotjcristau: heh20:21
kirklandtseliot: well, i think it's better than nothing.  you lose 3d capability, but still get premium resolution and bit depth, i think20:22
tseliotkirkland: yes, right. And signing the xorg.conf would be something which should be (deliberately) done by the user, therefore I don't see any problem with this approach20:29
tseliotjcristau: never mind20:29
kirklandtseliot: good, i'm in agreement with that point20:29
kirklandtseliot: bryce had some good thoughts about better management of multiple xorg.conf's20:30
kirklandtseliot: and extending this approach to other changing hw (wacom tablets, etc.)20:30
brycekewl, thought he would :-)20:30
tseliotkirkland: yes, I read what bryce wrote before (in this chat session)20:33
kirklandtseliot: ah, good20:34
tseliotkirkland, bryce: if you need a hand, I'll be glad to help20:34
mkrufkyis anybody here going to the Linux Plumbers conference?20:34
kirklandmkrufky: i've heard rtg talk about going20:34
superm1tseliot, kirkland you know we could always register an alternatives system for libGL20:35
superm1it would make for less ugly diversion magic20:35
mkrufkyim trying to justify why my boss should pay for me to attend20:35
kirklandsuperm1: that's what I suggested!20:35
superm1kirkland, haha, i just stepped in and saw the tail end of the convo20:35
kirklandsuperm1: sorry, that was a couple of days ago20:35
superm1kirkland, unfortunately at least in the fglrx case, there are more diverted libraries too20:36
superm1libdri i believe is the main one20:36
superm1i would understand resistance to registering libGL with the alternatives system though20:36
brycetseliot, kirkland: regarding the situation of plugging in new hardware, booting and failing, well we could also consider integrating the failsafe-x to be aware of this xorg.conf-alternates system, so it would popup a screen offering the option of trying any previously saved xorg.conf's in the system20:36
kirklandsuperm1: Aug 08 02:43:22 *       kirkland wonders if it would be possible to make those libs update-alternatives savvy....20:37
brycetseliot, kirkland: as well as an option to regenerate a stock xorg.conf, and/or running with no xorg.conf.  And one day maybe something fancier ala displayconfig-gtk20:37
kirklandsuperm1: Aug 08 02:43:42 <tjaalton>      uh no please, dpkg-divert is enough of a nightmare :)20:37
tjaaltonwe could just apply the patch to prefer "nvidia" if it's installed20:38
tseliotbryce: I really like this idea.20:38
tjaaltonand similar one for fgrlx20:38
superm1tjaalton, you mean to prefer the nvidia or fglrx libGL's via a different name if installed?20:38
tseliottjaalton: a lot of people would complain about Aaron Plattner's patch20:39
tjaaltonsuperm1: no, let the xserver pick nvidia if it's installed20:39
tjaaltontseliot: who would?20:39
tseliottjaalton: I wouldn't20:39
tjaaltonupstream said that it's a distro thing20:39
kirklandbryce: sure, and you could sort those xorg.conf's by reversed-date (most recently used)20:40
superm1that particular patch was just for choosing the modules if available and prevents the necessity of xorg.conf modifications in the first place, right?20:40
tjaaltonbtw, is x-kit hal-aware? does it edit fdi-files for input drivers?20:40
tseliottjaalton: no, I haven't worked on that yet. Any links to how fdi files work?20:41
tjaaltonsuperm1: right, it would pick the blob even if you didn't have xorg.conf20:41
tjaaltontseliot: hal documentation20:41
tseliottjaalton: I meant, Any links on how...20:41
tjaaltontseliot: hehe, no :)20:41
brycetseliot: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config20:41
tseliottjaalton: ok, I'll have a look at it20:41
bryceI put some explanations of fdi files and examples there20:41
superm1tjaalton, yeah if there is no opposition at the distro level, i think a patch like that would be welcomed for users20:41
tjaaltonsuperm1: that would also make a part of jockey/xkit obsolete20:42
superm1tjaalton, indeed20:43
tseliotbryce, tjaalton: so that's a simple xml file. It would be trivial to manipulate20:43
tjaaltontbh I haven't looked at x-kit at all yet :)20:43
superm1tjaalton, would a similar patch be possible to also check if you are loading fglrx/nvidia to use a different libGL so that no diversions or alternatives were necessary (maybe install it somewhere else instead)?20:44
tseliotbryce, tjaalton: I can write a module for X-Kit to deal with fdi files20:44
tjaaltonsuperm1: I'm not sure..20:45
tjaaltontseliot: cool20:45
brycetseliot: excellent20:45
jcristausuperm1: no matter how much you patch X you're not going to change where ld.so looks for libGL.so.120:45
superm1jcristau, yeah that's what i was thinking20:45
superm1tjaalton, why do you think alternatives would be more complex than diversions?  It would at least allow you to have multiple things installed simultaneously.  eg if you wanted to try multiple different nvidia driver versions, or possibly switch back and forth between open and closed source without making package installation changes20:49
psyke83hi, I packaged the latest flashplugin-nonfree release. This latest release has new dependencies (libcurl3, libnss3-1d and others) and works fine for 32bit users, but not 64bit, as it needs the 32bit version of these libraries. Do I really need to update the ia32-libs package with these new dependencies or can they be packaged separately (like lib32asound2)?20:49
tjaaltonsuperm1: maybe it could work.. it would be a surprise if no-one had thought about it before :)20:50
superm1tjaalton, well at least it would prevent each driver from having to know about every other possible driver20:50
superm1tjaalton, eg if there is an nvidia -180 release, don't have to update conflicts/replaces on the other 420:51
tjaaltonsuperm1: hmm right20:52
tjaaltonsuperm1: you are welcome to demonstrate it in action ;)20:52
superm1tjaalton, well lets see, when's feature freeze.20:52
tjaaltonhandling diversions is ugly, it can't be worse :)20:52
tjaaltontwo weeks from now?20:53
superm1i'll see if i have time to mess with it on one of my -nvidia machines before then20:53
superm1if not, then we can plan to try for ubuntu+120:53
tseliotsuperm1: let me know how it goes20:54
tseliotsuperm1: if it goes... ;)20:54
tjaaltonby then we'll have 3D support for r6xx and nouveau released and... :)20:54
tjaaltonI'll get me coat ->20:54
superm1tseliot, i'll have a handful of patches if it goes well :)  the worry with it though about generating packages for earlier ubuntu releases20:55
superm1at least for the -fglrx case. i'll see though20:55
psyke83superm1, the only practical problem with your idea is that the "nvidia-all" package would become quite bloated to hold the new/legacy/legacy-old packages, or else it could dynamically grab the upstream tarball like flashplugin-nonfree :)20:56
superm1psyke83, nvidia-all package?  i didn't realize that such a package existed20:57
superm1they are their own source packages now20:57
psyke83superm1, well, I thought that if all the binaries were in the same package, it would cause bloat... but perhaps I misunderstood your idea about using the update-alternatives, sorry ;)20:58
slangasekbryce: evand is on vacation, not at DebConf; I've just arrived home from DebConf today, it'll be at least a few hours before I'm fully spun up again though21:10
slangasekcody-somerville: if you have a question, asking it may improve your place in the queue ;)21:11
cody-somervilleslangasek, https://pastebin.canonical.com/8177/21:11
bryceslangasek: ah ok21:12
slangasekcody-somerville: hmm; what's the question? :)21:16
cody-somervilleslangasek, would that sort of report between daily builds be useful for the distro team?21:16
cody-somervilleor just useful somehow21:16
mathiazkirkland: I've put up my comments for your update-motd package on REVU21:24
kirklandmathiaz: awesome, thanks!21:24
LaserJockwho takes care of pidgin? desktop team?21:39
BenCLaserJock: it certainly isn't the kernel team :)21:54
LaserJockphew, good to know ;-)21:54
LaserJockwouldn't want to have to deal with those crazies ;-p21:55
=== nenolod_ is now known as nenolod
warrenasac: ping22:35
asacwarren: yes?22:36
warrenasac: are you interested in joining a theoretical new mailing list to collaboratively discuss nspluginwrapper issues and development?  (I'm pretty fed up with the lack of an upstream list and everyone going through Gwenole, especially when he disappears for weeks at a time.)22:37
warrenasac: for example, I'm running into issues that are either nspluginwrapper, firefox or Flash 10 bugs.  I currently have nowhere to post my findings where others could possibly help isolate the cause of a problem.22:39
asacwarren: i sometimes wonder if nspluginwrapper could be be maintained by mozilla upstream22:39
warrenasac: Adobe is interested in joining22:39
nenolodi would prefer for nspluginwrapper to be rewritten22:39
asacwarren: but yes. why not22:40
warrenasac: yes, my thought exactly, although I think creating a community around it is an intermediate step toward that goal.22:40
asacwarren: if adobe wants to contribute this might make sense22:40
pwnguinadobe wants open source to deal with this STL guy they hired22:40
pwnguini cant remember his name. russian i think22:41
pwnguinstandard template library22:41
nenolodalso, matthew garrett is totally my hero :P22:41
pwnguinim not convinced that the third party didn't make up the logs to continue "teh lolz"22:42
pwnguin(i didnt anticipate they'd fold, so I wrote their advertisers instead =/ )22:43
nenolodthat ryan guy is a total dumbass22:44
pwnguinim surprised he knew and could use the bios decoding stuff22:44
nenolodi must wonder how he managed to get slashdotted too22:45
nenolodpwnguin, well, he didn't understand what he was seeing fully22:45
pwnguinhe got slashdotted becaus ubuntu forums is a conduit for stupid =(22:45
pwnguinand slashdot decided they needed to jump on the stupid bandwagon and emulate digg22:46
nenolodbecause flaming manufacturers is a GREAT way to get them to do what you want22:47
pwnguinseems like it22:47
nenolodit's all a HUGE conspiracy22:47
nenolodthe BIOS author couldn't be incompetent, no way22:47
nenolodM$ writes every BIOS ever22:47
nenolodi am being sarcastic if you didn't notice ;p22:48
=== Igorot_ is now known as Igorot
pwnguinat any rate, paying any more attention to this is counterproductive22:48
nenolodi agree22:48
nenolodit's not even funny lolz22:48
nenolodit is just dumb22:48
pwnguinit stopped being funny lolz a long time ago, and it certainly didnt get funny now that i have to convince CFO.com to unsubscribe me from 20 of their email alerts22:49
nenolodyou too? :P22:50
* LaserJock feels left out22:50
pwnguinLaserJock: you were smart enough to  not give an email address on that guy's blog22:51
LaserJockdidn't particularly feel it was worth the effort, now I'm glad I didn't22:52
ion_pwnguin: Why not forward those messages to some.appropriate.user@cfo.com instead?22:53
pwnguinion_: what you fail to realize is, that cfo is a drop in the bucket22:54
pwnguinion_: imagine you wrote a web spider, who's only job was to look for email subscription pages22:54
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
pwnguinmost of them have confirmation processes22:55
pwnguinits easy enough to just ignore these, but a substantial fraction are configured... differently22:55
pwnguinmy favorites are the ones that set passwords23:00
pwnguinto unsubscribe, just enter your email and password23:00
nenolodpwnguin, for the record, iptables does well with the rest of them. it seems everyone who demonstrated to him otherwise on any medium where he could easily find e-mail addresses is being targeted :(23:12
mathiazkirkland: the sticky point will be how to handle motd23:31
mathiazkirkland: especially that you copy motd in the postinst23:31
mathiazkirkland: but motd is updated on every boot23:31
kirklandmathiaz: by what?23:31
mathiazkirkland: /etc/init.d/bootmish.sh23:32
kirklandmathiaz: i installed /etc/rc.*/update-motd at 9023:33
kirklandmathiaz: bootmisc is at 5523:34
kirklandogra: thanks!  and welcome back, btw!!!23:34
mathiazkirkland: but you don't copy /var/run/motd to /var/run/motd.head from the init script23:35
mathiazkirkland: you just do that on postinst23:35
kirklandmathiaz: right, I'll fix the init script ;-)23:35
kirklandmathiaz: hmm, it is sticky, though, i see what you mean23:36
ion_tkamppeter, pitti: Patch URLs changed: both are in http://heh.fi/tmp/cups/ now. 01-bugfixes contains bugfixes. 02-pdf implements the PDF filter chain for PostScript printers. Settings such as economy mode and DPI seem to work, even from OOo.23:43
ion_tkamppeter, pitti: If you make changes to the svn before you’re ready to add one or both of those patches, feel free to ask me to rebase them to svn HEAD.23:45

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