[00:00] maybe NM talk can continue on, but we can call the official meeting done :-) [00:00] thanks [00:00] night all [00:00] ArneGoetje: ok. open a bug then for sure and add to wiki [00:00] guten Nacht, everyone [00:00] thanks all [00:00] ArneGoetje: ill come back to you [00:00] asac: ok [00:00] liw: its: "Gute Nacht" [00:00] ;) [00:00] not Guten [00:00] asac, only in the real world [00:00] oh right [00:00] in _my_ world it's "guten Nacht und Wienerschnitzel mit Bananenkartoffeln" [00:01] Bananenkartoffeln :) [00:01] yummy [00:02] on top of wienerschnitzel ;) [00:02] "dann mal gute nacht ;)" [00:02] thanks all === asac_ is now known as asac === antdedyet_ is now known as antdedyet === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 21 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community [12:59] * ogra waves [12:59] * yannick waves [12:59] good day ogra I'm glad you are back [13:00] #startmeeting [13:00] * ogra too :) [13:00] Meeting started at 07:04. The chair is davidm. [13:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:00] Mootbot's time sense is off [13:00] yannick: Perhaps add an entry in the agenda on the wiki page if you like to discuss ekiga/lpia [13:00] We have one item from last week [13:00] for the next meeting? [13:00] yannick: For this one is ok [13:01] ok [13:01] lool was to investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits [13:01] Ah I didn't investigate linux-lpia bits [13:01] OK, I'll carry it forward [13:01] Concerning langpacks, the point was to support midbrowser in intrepid [13:02] It seems this is quite easy to enable, but it requires poking Jeroen and a prerequirement is for translations to be enabled in intrepid [13:02] Unfortunately, despite already being at alpha 4, translations aren't enabled in intrepid yet [13:03] So i'll pole jeroen to get an ETA on this and see whether he can enable the flag for midbrowser translation inclusion in intrepid's langpacks when they get available [13:03] I would think that would get turned on soon [13:03] OK, thanks [13:04] lool, anything else on this? [13:04] lool: pitti and seb128 have been discussing that with Jeroen, I believe. [13:04] On the topic of xulrunner, I clarified what remained to be done to merge the gconf backend with asac; he gave me detailed instructions on what we want to do there; it's not too hard from a high level perspective, but it might not be easy to achieve as we need to move code at a later stage of the build process [13:04] I've started looking into this, and will report progress [13:05] Sounds good. Thanks. [13:05] davidm: I don't have immediate access to the minutes of last meeting; do you recall what was to be checked with linux-lpia? [13:05] I had a brief exchange with Michael, perhaps I have the information [13:06] I don't off the top of my head but I'll pull the logs and post them. [13:06] Ok [13:06] Mootbot is a bit slow posting logs these days [13:06] My guess is, "Why doesn't it exist yet?" [13:06] But I have mine. [13:06] I'm happy to report on progress on xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia next week again; I know what needs to be done, and there are no critical blocker apart of translation enablement [13:06] StevenK: It does exist?! [13:07] OK, I'll carry to complete action forward [13:07] linux-lpia | 2.6.26-1.1 | intrepid | source [13:07] (out of topic question for later discussion) regarding the question just popped up in -mobile ... are we planning SRUs for the bootspeed issues ? [13:07] Oh, neat [13:07] [action] lool was to investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits [13:07] ACTION received: lool was to investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits [13:07] It even builds udebs and cjwatson enabled d-i support for lpia! [13:07] Oh, sorry, I was thinking about the meta binary package "linux-lpia" [13:07] ogra: Lets discuss this towards the end of meeting as a separate topic? [13:07] ogra, can you add that to the agenda please [13:08] lool, ekiga/lpia added in the agenda. [13:08] lool, right,just didnt want it to be lost [13:08] yannick: thanksely [13:08] lets review the status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. [13:09] [topic] Stevenk livecd-rootfs [13:09] New Topic: Stevenk livecd-rootfs [13:09] I am working on hacking the trigger scripts on antimony, and need to check with Adam. I will be writing him an e-mail after this meeting which the basic idea is, "Help!" [13:10] StevenK: What could be a rough ETA of this working daily in the datacenter? [13:11] lool: If I could clear my plate, concentrate on it and have Adam to bounce ideas off, less than a day. Realistically, next week. [13:11] StevenK, adam and elmo have moved my classmate builder over to antimony afaik due to me not being available and havung to generalize the build there should be a lot similarities now [13:12] Ok; I guess it's up to davidm whether to give priority to your other tasks (which I guess are hardy ones) versus intrepid stuff; thanks for the update! [13:12] ogra: I'm guessing that triggers one of the i386 builders to chug over it. [13:12] lool, I'd love to change priority but I can't :-( [13:13] OK [13:13] So would I. [13:13] I'm sick of OMGKITTENSURGENT hardy tasks popping up. [13:13] StevenK, i havent talked to either of thembut building images locally atm with the changes that were applied by colin and it seems to work fine here [13:13] StevenK, do you have any merges still on your plate [13:13] Hand-wavy, modest. Ish. [13:14] so i suspect its just a matter of runing cron.daily in the right dir on antimony [13:14] OK, [13:14] lool: Oh, Mr. pkg-maemo person, when is modest and libwpeditor-plus going to hit Debian? [13:14] lets corner them later today ;) [13:14] [topic] StevenK open merges [13:14] New Topic: StevenK open merges [13:15] ogra: Actually, that's not a bad idea. I'll hit up Colin for help with the scripts, if I can, since he isn't in a ohmigodmyeyeshurt timezone. [13:15] lool, davidm: ^ [13:15] StevenK, colin is away until monday [13:15] Doh! [13:15] Okay, Monday it is. [13:15] StevenK, Good enough, let me know if I can help, but ogra is right Colin is on holiday this week. [13:15] but we have my builder and can look at differences [13:15] Is this merges from Debian, or merges from the PPA? [13:15] MInd you, we'll probably get lpia alternate CDs for Tuesday [13:16] StevenK, I'll be in London so can poke Colin if that helps [13:16] StevenK, outstanding merges of any kind [13:16] StevenK: Good question; no idea what's holding them up; last time I checked libwpeditor-plus had been uploaded, but it was probably rejected as I don't see it; modest had trivial non-critical packaging issues, but was otherwise ready [13:16] davidm: Colin or Adam are good people for me to beg for help. Colin is easier, due to timezones. [13:16] StevenK, We are coming close to feature freeze [13:17] davidm: Add a action item for lool to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest? [13:17] StevenK, Adam is on my timezone can I bug him for anything for you? [13:17] lool, is that action OK for you? [13:18] Just a status update. If pkg-maemo are going to do the work, I'm happy to get them sync'd and borrow credit. [13:18] Can we pull from SVN to speed that? [13:18] bzr [13:18] davidm: Yup [13:19] I can't think of any outstanding merges from Debian. I will hit up MoM tomorrow and grab stuff with my name on it. [13:19] s/SVN/VCS/ [13:19] davidm: Just pinged the relevant person on IRC already; I'll help him push them to Debian and then sync them to Ubuntu [13:19] [action] lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status [13:19] ACTION received: lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status [13:19] OK next topic [13:19] In terms of merges from the PPA, I'm not sure if anything has my name on it. persia? [13:19] StevenK: Not any more: you've done a bunch. [13:20] [topic] persia status of the installer [13:20] New Topic: persia status of the installer [13:20] davidm: The problem is, I really need to talk stuff over with Adam, since I often have questions while I'm doing the work. And working from 4am until 8am would just *suck*. [13:20] StevenK, understood [13:20] s/Adam/Adam or Colin/ [13:20] Well, we don't have d-i for intrepid: it seems it needs to get dropped from P-a-s. I'm expecting that to happen early next week. [13:21] persia: Did you ask for it? [13:21] lool: I didn't: as we discussed previously, I thought I'd confirm with Colin first. [13:21] I can request it if we all feel sufficiently confident that such confirmation is deemed unnecessary. [13:21] persia: Ok; I think you should mail Colin to allow him to forward to lamont/elmo asap [13:22] lamont was very responsive to my latest Pas request [13:22] lamont/elmo/infinity [13:22] Actually, one needs to email all three of them, or they reject the request as invalid: documentation purposes and all. [13:22] i think lamont is away as well atm [13:22] ogra: Doesn't matter who is there: any of them will do it, but they all need the email. [13:22] (not sure if he took one or two weeks off) [13:22] StevenK: infinity has Pas access? [13:22] lots of folks are away this week [13:22] lool: OK. I'll push that sooner rather than waiting for Monday. [13:23] lool: I believe so. [13:23] ogra: am not. [13:23] Yes. [13:23] lamont, ah, hey :) [13:23] I'd have to check, that's from memory. [13:23] * lool hugs lamont [13:23] lamont: Don't interfere by presenting reality :p [13:23] lamont: Well, since you're here. [13:23] :-) [13:23] email. all 3 of us. kthx [13:23] :-) [13:23] * persia will send the request email, and cc: Colin in case he wants to object [13:23] ta [13:23] [topic] persia status of merges? [13:23] New Topic: persia status of merges? [13:24] Oh. Still on installer: glade hates me. I'm still waiting for our images, but I think I can install ubuntu-mobile on 1024x600, but not yet 800x480. [13:25] Good luck on that..... [13:25] Merges: treb & ume-announcer need me to comment on how good they are, and upload with slightly different changelogs (and a one-line fix to treb). [13:26] persia, anything outstanding? [13:26] That ought happen tomorrow. I'm planning to hit the remaining PPA stuff next week, and suspect it will take about a week. [13:26] sounds good [13:27] outstanding? [13:27] Any other merger that you are aware of that need doing.. [13:28] s/merger/merges/ [13:28] Oh, lots, but those are what I planned to do next week :) [13:28] persia, OK then I shall move on [13:28] [topic] lool status? [13:28] New Topic: lool status? [13:29] I'm not aware of anything new coming from Debian, although I've not checked. I am pulling a new BlueZ-gnome, but that's as much -desktop as -mobile. [13:29] Hmm status is catchup done; working on MIC with moblin/Intel folks and on misc things already covered here [13:30] Oh and I'm on national holiday tomorrow [13:30] persia: bluez-{libs,utils} are all dealt with, right. [13:30] s/.$/?/ [13:30] Will try attending the team phone call though [13:30] lool, thanks :-) [13:30] StevenK: Yes, the entire BlueZ stack is good, but there's an overflow possible in bluez-gnome that I want to pull. [13:32] [topic] ogra status of the Classmate image [13:32] New Topic: ogra status of the Classmate image [13:32] i am currently poking a new bug that was introduced after colins changes with the image [13:32] (installer doesnt reboot automatically after install anymore) [13:33] beyond that the image is fine and has no regressions, the new kernel archive seems to work well and i need to discuss the remaining build changes that were done to run it in the DC with elmo or inifinity [13:34] ogra, what is the QA plan for the image? [13:34] to my knowledge it should be possible to just trigger builds for cmpc images in the DC by running the cron.daily script in my tree [13:34] well, QA was supposed to be done until the topic with security updates came up [13:35] the RC is an RC ... :) [13:35] ogra: Will you release an image with current kernel or new security fixed kernel? [13:35] so the only change we had after RC is the new location and different signature for the kernel archive [13:35] I guess the later since you're rebuilding it [13:35] lool, afaik the new kernel is the security one [13:35] Yes [13:35] Ah, that is good [13:36] we will re-roll images regulary is the areement [13:36] if the amount of updates justifies [13:36] and for each pointrelease of ubuntu [13:36] ogra: Will your cmpc kernel patches be merged in the next hardy-updates kernel? [13:36] with 8.04.2 the kernel patches i use are in the mainline kernel, so no separate builds for that are needed anymore [13:37] they already sit in hardy-proposed [13:37] 2.6.24-20.39 has them [13:37] Ok so >= 2.6.24.20.22 has your changes [13:37] err 2.6.24-21.40 sorry [13:37] Was looking at wrong line [13:38] (current proposed kernel is 2.6.24-21.40 [13:38] right [13:38] ogra, Thanks for the update [13:38] next topic [13:38] so if i find the reason for the missing reboot i will be done [13:39] I think we will skip the next topic as we are waiting status from lool on the Debian status of modest libwpeditor-plus [13:39] moving on [13:39] [topic] ian_brasil ...start the weekly team reports again?. Is there a need? [13:39] New Topic: ian_brasil ...start the weekly team reports again?. Is there a need? [13:40] i want to propose starting the weekly team reports again...i think they are valuable and a good way for others to find out what is going on in ume..the downside is a bit more work for the developers writing the reports every week [13:40] thoughts? [13:40] ian_brasil, I will be posting a weekly report it's in progress now. [13:40] ian_brasil: How about having minutes from this meeting sent to the list every week instead? [13:41] I'll aggregate team info and also post logs of this meeting with URL pointing at it. [13:41] persia: that might be possible but an email tends to be a bit more detailed [13:42] ian_brasil: Makes sense. I'm just not sure that all changes will be usefully represented as Ubuntu Mobile becomes more integrated with the rest of Ubuntu. [13:42] ian_brasil: davidm has been aggregating status from Canonical mobile team and has prepared internal reports for the last 2/3 weeks; I think he plans to send a stripped down versions without the private bits to the public list soon, but that's all quite recent organization still [13:43] lool, exactly, that is my plan. [13:43] ian_brasil: So instead of everybody sending individual reports, we will have a weekly report for the team [13:43] davidm: The server team is really good at this since some weeks [13:43] lool: ah, that sounds ideal [13:43] Yes they are and I plan on matching them ;-) [13:43] davidm: Not only do they post to internal, and public mailing list, they also blog it; quite nice :-) [13:43] interesting [13:44] yes, the server team are good at this [13:44] I'll have to look at the blog, that I've not seen [13:44] * davidm hates to blog [13:44] just copy and paste the mail content ;) [13:44] ian_brasil, does this address your concern? [13:44] yes [13:44] OK, moving on then [13:44] :-) [13:45] [topic] Ekiga 3, LPIA (Yannick Defais) [13:45] New Topic: Ekiga 3, LPIA (Yannick Defais) [13:45] I'm asking you to do some testing about our current Ekiga (2.9) on LPIA as none of us do have those devices. We have special interest in usability with the new Ekiga GUI. We are still in the process of bug fixing and GUI reworking. We hope to release in september for the next GNOME. [13:47] yannick: Can you give a high level summary of the changes? [13:47] Especially those we should be concerned to test, or impacting lpia specifically [13:48] yannick: e.g. die the UI change, did you work on hildonization, or is it simply the build system? [13:49] quit huge changes since we are working on it since years... A new GUI like most IM (roster + presence), new video codecs: theora (free) and h264 for the better one which match low bandwidth, hotplug device (using HAL)... [13:50] yannick: Ok; so testing should be around basic IM and audio/video functionality as well as device setup? [13:51] I personally have menlow hardware as well as a Q1, but neither of these has a (supported) webcam [13:51] I don't have any webcam apart of the Q1U one which isn't supported [13:51] You can use Ekiga for audio calls only too [13:51] Sure, I can test that with a happy second candidate, any taker? :-) [13:52] Well I'll phone myself then [13:52] lool, you and I can test [13:52] yannick: Could you send me a recommendation for a good USB webcam which is known to be well supported for audio/video in ekiga? [13:52] davidm: let's do this [13:53] do those device have usb port? you maybe can plug an usb webcam. [13:53] yannick: They do have USB [13:53] lool, better use a UCV driver based webcam [13:53] less then 10 minute warning [13:53] yannick: i'll buy a webcam and test video as I receive it [13:53] * ogra can test with a cmpc which has a proper uvcvideo cam [13:53] I've a working webcam on my Kohjinsha, but don't yet have an intrepid lpia install for it. [13:53] s/UCV/UVC [13:53] yannick: Ok; I'll check ekiga resources or the uvc's documentation; thanks [13:53] davidm, pick up one of the classmates if you are in london ;) [13:54] ogra, I will [13:54] OK moving on [13:54] davidm: [action] lool+davidm+... test ekiga [13:54] [action] lool+davidm+... test ekiga [13:54] ACTION received: lool+davidm+... test ekiga [13:54] You can report any comment/suggestion/bug in our BTS: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=ekiga [13:54] [topic] Bootspeed improvements in hardy, do we do SRUs ? [13:54] New Topic: Bootspeed improvements in hardy, do we do SRUs ? [13:54] Tnak you very much :-) [13:54] Thank* [13:55] ogra, was that your new topic? [13:55] hey [13:55] davidm, yeah [13:56] personally I think we do IF it does not impact the rest hardy, lool your thoughts? [13:56] not sure how important we consider it at all though [13:56] If it does we document how to do it and keep it in a testing image. [13:56] imho devices are rarely rebooted anyway [13:56] and rather put into suspend instead [13:56] It's very important to some. [13:57] Almost out of time [13:57] ogra, we may have to take this off line [13:57] fine with me [13:57] probably soething for the ML [13:58] that way we also might get more user feedback how much its needed [13:58] Yes, it is critical to document any boot speed wins and how to achieve them. [13:58] ogra: If it's in any way dangerous you can fork to ppa [13:58] OK, endmeeting in 1 miunute [13:58] But in general, we should be using SRUs which we are confident with as a mean to push things to hardy and not take the ppa route whenever possible [13:59] I think this was the last topic? [13:59] lool, correct [13:59] Has to have been :) [13:59] Excellent timing then [13:59] endmeeting going twice [13:59] greetings [13:59] #endmeeting [13:59] Meeting finished at 08:04. [14:00] Got to get mootbot time fixed ;-) [14:00] heh [14:00] Thanks everyone. [14:00] Thanks for chairing [14:01] davidm: It's displaying Ubuntu releases time; it's at hardy currently [14:01] (08:04) [14:01] thanks [14:01] ok https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-08-14 [14:01] I had reports from everyone except tedg [14:01] let the public shaming begin ;) [14:01] Ken is on Leave, and mpt is awaiting the arrival of his new laptop [14:01] * pitti hopes that mpt's broken laptop is not due to intrepid [14:02] no, physically broken aiui [14:02] since he had to actually buy a new one [14:02] we have an outstanding action from last week [14:02] * Riddell to follow up on MIR bug for libzip to remind pitti. [14:02] did that happen? [14:02] ugh, didn't see a bug mail about that [14:02] but Riddell is on akademy, so... [14:03] too many stuff to do and sleepless nights for alpha-4, sorry, forgot about it [14:03] no problem [14:03] it was his action ;) [14:03] doko should be there next week to do MIRs [14:03] mvo: you had an action about apt installation reports? [14:03] yes [14:04] * How useful are the apt filed installation failed reports? Should we [14:04] not file them against the failed package (e.g. gedit) but against [14:04] a central virtual component (like install-failurs) because most [14:04] likely the problem is not with gedit, but with e.g. scrollkeeper [14:04] that is run in the gedit postinst? This way triaggers [14:04] can pinpoint the problem and assign to the right packages. [14:04] I got some complaints that the apt bugreports clutter the [14:04] buglists too much. [14:04] well, that is a agenda item for this meeting :) [14:05] mvo: TBH, they are quite annoying [14:05] not as a bug report as such [14:05] for the record I'm the one who complain [14:05] but because they seldomly hit the right package [14:05] right, that is what seb128 said too [14:05] and often it is PEBCAK [14:06] pebcak? [14:06] 95% of the bugs on GNOME packages are either scrollkeeper, or local corruption, or user doing ctrl-C, or no space, etc [14:06] mvo: problem exists between chair and keyboard [14:06] seb128: I added code to filter out the no space now [14:06] right [14:06] lcoal corruption is something I see quite often too (bad ram for example) [14:07] I see the following options a) disable them entirely b) move them to a new pseudo package and let them be triaged there c) leave them as they are [14:07] I suggested to create an "installation-issue" component and send those there [14:07] mvo: my gut feeling is that we should start paying attention once we get two or three duplicates [14:07] since they are usually incident reports rather than bugs [14:07] mvo: it seems to me that this issue would be best raised with the QA team [14:08] and bugsquad could triage there and reassign bugs when it makes sense [14:08] since they are the team that would need to triage those reports and get them on to to the right package [14:08] I should add that while they are annoying to us, they are much more annoying to our users so I'm not happy with a) [14:08] so, if we had automatic duplication for package install failures, we could do that [14:08] the auto-duplicater could set a bug to confirmed and public once it hits the third dup, or something like htat [14:08] that should get rid of a lot of noise [14:08] mvo: right, pure a) is bad [14:08] right, d) is "better filtering" [14:09] that is probably the best option [14:09] mvo: b) would just be an excuse to ignore them entirely, and is thus not really better than a) IMHO [14:09] I think for intrepid+1 we should sit down and talk about possibilities of auto-duplicating [14:09] pitti: that would still pollute bugs list [14:09] I'd love to work on that, if time permits [14:09] mvo: I think you should take this up with the QA team ;) [14:09] seb128: not more than crashes, ceratinly? we could leave them private? [14:10] pitti: I don't like (b) either for the same reaosons [14:10] mvo: e) ! [14:10] pitti: the new component should be something to triage for bugsquad, not something to ignore ;-) [14:10] pitti: don't get me started on crashes ;-) I spent most of my week cleaning those and there is still around 3000 apport-crash open bugs which are not confirmed [14:11] I will talk to the QA people and see how they feel about a "package-failures" pseudo component and if they think they could do triaging on it [14:11] seb128: I don't think we should even *attempt* to exhaustively triage them === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger [14:11] seb128: they just look like bugs because we currently don't have another place to report them to, but they aren't as precious as real bug reports [14:11] ok, different topic [14:12] right [14:13] ok [14:13] mvo: we'd lose the ability to match those to packages, though [14:13] mvo: s/ability/LP facilities/ [14:14] mvo: please also mention the possibility of auto-duping (which requires quite some engineering, but that's still better than humans doing duplication) [14:14] hm, right. that is another problem with this solution, because everything gets dumped into it, I feel that people will be less inclinded to look at the reports [14:14] I don't care for haskell failures for example [14:15] but anyway, I will talk to QA and see what comes out of it (maybe they have some good ideas) [14:15] that's like the current package association was making sense, most of the time it's something the postinst calls which breaks and not due to the package which calls the command [14:16] "that's not like" rather [14:16] ok, I think we're going round in circles here now [14:16] mvo: I've added you an action to talk to QA [14:16] thanks [14:16] did I miss any other items from the agenda? [14:16] * pitti would like to quickly talk about empathy [14:16] pitti: go for it [14:17] so, I guess we all tested empathy in the last week, right? :) [14:17] my personal expression: looks a little less slick, ICQ connection is quite unreliable, and I didn't manage to get SIP working [14:17] * tedg thought Empathy was broken this morning, but it actually turns out none of his contacts are online -- for real :) [14:17] but apparently upstream is very active and keen on it [14:17] so, I currently don't see a convincing argument for or against it [14:17] pitti: does SIP work in pidgin? [14:18] seb128: I don't think it is supposed to [14:18] I just thought empathy was eventually meant to merge the pidgin and ekiga use cases [14:18] ok, so it's not in comparison to pidgin but just what noted [14:18] I wasn't able to get an A/V chat going in Intrepid, though I had in Hardy. [14:18] seb128: right [14:18] There may be a farsight issue in Intrepid. [14:18] a big ++ for listening to netwokr-manager, though [14:19] pidgin doesn't, adn thus never notices when I suspend or resume [14:19] nobody screamed on the list so far [14:19] somebody complain about some protocol not being supported and upstream added the corresponding profiles to svn [14:19] the "SIP working" is apparently just the lack of an input box for the registrar/server, upstream said he'd fix it ASAP [14:20] it's nice to have a responsive upstream ;) [14:20] but the inability to connect to ICQ for two days (while pidgin worked) concerned me a bit [14:20] my main motivation for the switch is that empathy should have a realiable schedule now since they are part of GNOME [14:20] Keybuk: ++ [14:20] upstream is responsive [14:20] and that's the way to go [14:20] I've testing it with butterfly and jabber and it works pretty fine for me, but the UI has some annoyances like that you can disable the notification sounds trough it instead you need to use gconf, etc [14:20] * mvo also had trouble with icq, but otherwise it was fine [14:20] so currently I am mildly in favor of empathy, if we do the default switch ASAP [14:20] where pidgin doesn't care about GNOME, claim they are not a GNOME application, don't have schedules apparently and are not responsive [14:20] that's true [14:20]