[10:16] <melat0nin> the wiki is very slow today
[10:16] <emunkki> it's always :P
[10:16] <melat0nin> :/
[17:08] <vbabiy> newz2000: Hey
[17:08] <newz2000> hey vbabiy!
[17:08] <emunkki>  
[17:09] <vbabiy> newz2000: I got some free time on my hands coming up and I want to really get something going with the feature tour. Has anything changed since we last spoke
[17:14] <newz2000> vbabiy: we've had good discussion with emunkki
[17:15] <newz2000> he's good at design and concepting (and css) but he's also running out of time
[17:15] <newz2000> before he gets busy
[17:15] <newz2000> hey emunkki, around?
[17:15] <emunkki> sure
[17:15] <emunkki> ;)
[17:15] <newz2000> hey, had any break throughs on the feature tour?
[17:15] <emunkki> not really
[17:16] <emunkki> i will be busy until monday i think
[17:16] <newz2000> oh too bad
[17:16] <emunkki> i know :(
[17:16] <newz2000> when does your school start?
[17:16] <emunkki> monday :P
[17:16] <emunkki> but really, i will be less busy then than now
[17:16] <vbabiy> yeah emunkki you going to busy
[17:17] <vbabiy> or not
[17:17] <vbabiy> :0
[17:17] <vbabiy> :)
[17:17] <emunkki> i got three new clients yesterday
[17:17] <emunkki> (commercial)
[17:17] <newz2000> I guess that's the good news
[17:17] <vbabiy> very cool
[17:17] <emunkki> well the good news is that i'm also a workaholic
[17:17] <newz2000> although I don't know why you'd rather help those guys who pay you money when you could help us for free
[17:17] <vbabiy> lol
[17:17] <emunkki> yeah i've thought that myself ;)
[17:20]  * newz2000 is waiting for the wiki
[17:20] <newz2000> it's going very very slow today
[17:20] <newz2000> maybe if I hit refresh a bunch of times it will go faster because it knows I'm in a rush
[17:20] <emunkki> lol
[17:20] <emunkki> maybe it will put you in the back of the queue
[17:21] <vbabiy> its been slow lately
[17:22] <newz2000> vbabiy: how would you like to help on the feature tour?
[17:22] <vbabiy> what do mean?
[17:22] <newz2000> I think it will be a multi-person job, I was just curious what part you feel you'd like to do?
[17:23] <vbabiy> really anything
[17:24] <vbabiy> Coding, Markup, Css
[17:28] <newz2000> vbabiy: lets give emunkki a fighthing chance to get a design done (if he still wants to). Until there's a design there's not much coding to be done.
[17:29] <newz2000> But I am definitely eager for you to contribute
[17:29] <vbabiy> newz2000: well I am still going to work on some design maybe I will get something good
[17:29] <emunkki> just throw in ideas, don't count on me if you're in hurry
[17:29] <newz2000> emunkki: ok.
[17:30] <emunkki> i can still design something when i have time though, if you don't have any design ready for use
[17:30] <newz2000> vbabiy: go for it...
[17:30] <newz2000> emunkki: go for it
[17:30] <newz2000> :-)
[17:30] <vbabiy> yeah, I think the more design we have the more option we have to use
[17:30] <newz2000> sure
[17:31] <newz2000> here are some tips...
[17:31] <newz2000> don't feel like you have to copy ubuntu.com. It should be clear people are still on the ubuntu website but it doesn't have to be an exact match
[17:31] <newz2000> also, go for "subdued" or "muted" styling elements. Less is more.
[21:38] <Diptanu> Hi everyone
[21:38] <newz2000> hi Diptanu!
[21:38] <Diptanu> I just got here
[21:38] <newz2000> so I see ;-)
[21:39] <Diptanu> ya
[21:39] <newz2000> Diptanu: what blog did you hear about this at?
[21:39] <Diptanu> Beerfruit
[21:40] <newz2000> hah
[21:40] <Diptanu> ya
[21:40] <Diptanu> sorry. Bearfruit.org
[21:40] <newz2000> that would be my blog then. :-)
[21:40] <Diptanu> I am a web developer...I have founded a startup of my own in India.
[21:40] <Diptanu> Wow
[21:40] <Diptanu> Thats great.
[21:40] <newz2000> Where in Inidia are you Diptanu?
[21:41] <Diptanu> Bangalore
[21:41] <Diptanu> I read your blog everyday
[21:41] <newz2000> Sorry, it hasn't changed a ton lately
[21:41] <newz2000> so what part of web development is your speciality?
[21:41] <Diptanu> Its alright. I like your thoughts
[21:41] <Diptanu> especially the photoshop one
[21:42] <Diptanu> I like using swig
[21:42] <Diptanu> for serverside scripting
[21:42] <newz2000> The only swig I've heard of is the thing that lets you use C code in python or ruby
[21:42] <Diptanu> You know. write good and fast c code and bind it with python..and stuff...
[21:42] <newz2000> gotcha
[21:42] <Diptanu> Ya ur right
[21:43] <newz2000> very interesting, I've not heard of it used in web development really
[21:43] <Diptanu> And on frontend I am alike a regular web developer
[21:43] <Diptanu> Ya..
[21:43] <Diptanu> Actually i started using it accidentally
[21:44] <newz2000> do you have a website?
[21:44] <Diptanu> I had  to write a module which was supposed to work as a daemon
[21:44] <Diptanu> Ya...my site is http://lifeoz.com
[21:45] <Diptanu> So u were talking about some problems with this ubuntu website.
[21:45] <newz2000> the navigation syndication?
[21:45] <Diptanu> ya
[21:46] <newz2000> did you have an idea?
[21:46] <Diptanu> not really..
[21:46] <Diptanu> just did some random thinking..
[21:47] <Diptanu> Do you work with open source full time?
[21:48] <newz2000> yes, I work for Canonical as the ubuntu.com web master
[21:48] <Diptanu> I see..Great
[21:48] <newz2000> Some people here have suggested I rethink the navigation entirely
[21:48] <Diptanu> ok...
[21:48] <newz2000> so I recently installed some tracking code to see how people use the navigation... what they click on, what they don't
[21:48] <newz2000> and as it turns out, people rarely click on the top navigation
[21:49] <Diptanu> I see
[21:49] <newz2000> getting rid of that may make life much easier and take away the need to syndicate it
[21:50] <Diptanu_> Sorry i got disconnected
[21:51] <newz2000> the last thing said after you said, "I see" was: newz2000: getting rid of that may make life much easier and take away the need to syndicate it
[21:51] <Diptanu_> ok
[21:52] <newz2000> Diptanu_: so are you up very early or are you up very late?
[21:52] <Diptanu_> I am up very late
[21:52] <newz2000> I've got a friend in Pune who I keep in touch with... I never hear from him at this time of day.
[21:53] <Diptanu_> He must be sleeping by now
[21:53] <Diptanu_> :-)
[21:53] <Diptanu_> Actually you see..
[21:53] <Diptanu_> I am trying to look into the spidermonkey code...And i am finding it very interesting
[21:53] <Diptanu_> So..i was going to ask you
[21:54] <Diptanu_> How do people navigate thorugh the site then
[21:54] <Diptanu_> I mean majority
[21:54] <newz2000> they use the navigation on the left
[21:54] <Diptanu_> ok
[21:54] <newz2000> I actually only track three things, top, left and footer
[21:54] <Diptanu_> i see
[21:54] <newz2000> 13% use left, 2% top and 0.0% use footer
[21:55] <Diptanu_> interesting
[21:55] <Diptanu_> i am not surprised with the footer stat though
[21:55] <newz2000> yeah, me either
[21:55] <Diptanu_> I thought top should hav been more
[21:55] <newz2000> I think it will take a lot of people by surprise.
[21:56] <Diptanu_> Ya true.
[21:56] <newz2000> I believe next month I will go to a meeting with some of the people in the company about the website to plan a redesign later this year
[21:56] <newz2000> they all feel strongly about this top portion
[21:57] <newz2000> and I think this stat will blow their mind
[21:57] <newz2000> Diptanu_: regarding spidermonkey, have you see this: http://www.aptana.com/jaxer/ ?
[21:58] <newz2000> it's like php or rails but its done in javascript, so you can run js on the client and the server
[21:58] <newz2000> I don't know if it uses spidermonkey or rhino or something else though
[22:01] <Dip> Sorry the line keeps getting disconnected
[22:01] <newz2000> Dip what was the last you heard?
[22:01] <Dip> The stat would blow the minds of many
[22:02] <Dip> I was involved with the LUG of my college
[22:02] <Dip> during undergrad
[22:02] <newz2000> newz2000: Diptanu_: regarding spidermonkey, have you see this: http://www.aptana.com/jaxer/ ?
[22:02] <newz2000> newz2000: it's like php or rails but its done in javascript, so you can run js on the client and the server
[22:02] <newz2000> newz2000: I don't know if it uses spidermonkey or rhino or something else though
[22:02] <Dip> Ya
[22:03] <newz2000> its one of those things on my list to check out one day
[22:03] <Dip> I had read about it
[22:03] <Dip> And i thought about giving it a shot
[22:04] <Dip> I feel it should use some kind of scripting using the JSR 223 or so, like rhino
[22:04] <Dip> Thats the best way of running JS on server. Phoboes does the same
[22:05] <Dip> Do u use APtana
[22:05] <Dip> ?
[22:05] <newz2000> Not any more, used to
[22:05] <Dip> ok
[22:05] <newz2000> I'm still looking for the perfect tool
[22:05] <Dip> Netbeans has come with good JS support of late. But its still solw
[22:05] <Dip> slow
[22:06] <Dip> same with me :)
[22:06] <newz2000> I just downloaded the beta of 6.5
[22:06] <Dip> ok
[22:06] <newz2000> about 10m ago
[22:06] <Dip> i did the same in morning
[22:06] <Dip> with the php support
[22:06] <Dip> Have u been to india?
[22:06] <newz2000> my complaint with 6.1 was that to do a js project you have to create a whole project with some server side language like java. You can't just create an folder of html pages.
[22:06] <newz2000> Dip: no, never been to Asia at all
[22:07] <newz2000> I wanted to go to my friends wedding a few years ago in New Dehli
[22:07] <newz2000> too $$$ at the time though
[22:07] <Dip> I see..
[22:07] <newz2000> have you been to the US?
[22:07] <Dip> New Delhi is a lively place
[22:07] <Dip> No.
[22:08] <Dip> Next year i will visit Montreal, canada
[22:08] <Dip> I will be presenting a tutorial at Gecco
[22:08] <newz2000> Gecco?
[22:09] <Dip> genetic and evolutionary computation conference
[22:09] <newz2000> what will you present? (if you're allowed to say)
[22:09] <Dip> I did some work with particle swarm optimization...
[22:09] <Dip> during my undergrad
[22:10] <Dip> I made a toolbox for using that algorithm
[22:10] <Dip> I will present that
[22:11] <Dip> So what else is coming up with Ubuntu?
[22:11] <newz2000> 8.10 in October
[22:11] <Dip> ok
[22:12] <Dip> Coming back to that left navigation panel
[22:12] <Dip> Why dont u do a dynamic menus
[22:13] <Dip> users may just want to see what is there. Might not go to that particular page
[22:13] <newz2000> what do you mean by dynamic menus?
[22:14] <Dip> Like when the user hover over a menu item.
[22:15] <Dip> The sub menus should show up..
[22:15] <Dip> Kinda like an accordion
[22:15] <newz2000> I feel they tend to hurt usability, also they tend to surprise users.
[22:15] <newz2000> A lot of people don't realize we have those now on the top menu
[22:16] <Dip> ya.
[22:17] <Dip> May be its a way too top..
[22:17] <Dip> The left pane is way too visible and catchy
[22:20] <Dip> What do u guys use in the backend
[22:20] <newz2000> We use drupal, a php based cms
[22:21] <Dip> ok
[22:22] <Dip> I could not ease myself with cms like joomla and drupal.
[22:22] <Dip> Does they really help?
[22:23] <newz2000> they can. We have quite a few people who update the website that don't know HTML and that type of stuff
[22:23] <newz2000> I think it helps them
[22:23] <Dip> I see
[22:23] <Dip> That is a viable use case. You are right
[22:26] <Dip> So have u fired up ur netbeans?
[23:00] <nand> hmm, were you aware the ubuntu theme used in ubuntu.com is not rendering correctly on IE6?
[23:00]  * nand has a hard time making brainstorm looks at least decent on IE...
[23:02]  * nand slaps IE
[23:12] <newz2000> nand: yes, I'm so sorry
[23:12] <newz2000> are you basing your theme of ubuntu07?
[23:12] <newz2000> ubuntu07 has more bugs than... something with a lot of bugs
[23:12] <newz2000> canonical07 is better
[23:13] <newz2000> if you don't mind a fixed-width theme, ubuntu08 is the best
[23:13] <newz2000> ubuntu08 can be seen at shipit.ubuntu.com
[23:13] <nand> hmm, it's based on the theme that was used on the QA sites. there is a canonical trademark so I guess its cano07
[23:14] <newz2000> and what problem are you having with ie6?
[23:14] <newz2000> the only one I know of is the white line down the rhs
[23:14] <nand> newz2000: well, the border of the theme on the left and right goes crazy
[23:14] <nand> let me show you...
[23:16] <nand> urg, IE6 crashed again
[23:16] <nand> reinstalling
[23:16] <newz2000> that's ok
[23:16]  * nand is feeling nostalgic :)
[23:16] <newz2000> I don't think I need to see it to feel your pain
[23:16] <newz2000> nand: are you working on the theme for brainstorm?
[23:17] <melat0nin> i can take a screenshot in ies4linux if you want
[23:17] <nand> and basicall ATM, my problem is that the theme on brainstorm.... show a blank page :)
[23:17] <newz2000> oh
[23:17] <nand> I mean, the devel version: http://devel.ideatorrent.org
[23:17] <newz2000> I remember that prob... we fixed it long ago I thought
[23:17] <nand> do you remember what was it about?
[23:19] <newz2000> no, I can't think of it at the moment
[23:19] <newz2000> can you duplicate it on ubuntu.com?
[23:19] <nand> http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3685/ubuntucomyl9.png => shipit.ubuntu.com
[23:19] <nand> here again, the left and right go crazy... that's the other problem I'm facing
[23:20] <newz2000> that's not shipit, that's ubuntu.com
[23:20] <nand> oh yeah
[23:20] <newz2000> that's the problem I know about, though worse than when I saw it previously
[23:21] <newz2000> nand: grab the css from the current ubuntu.com site and try using it
[23:21] <newz2000> I'll bet something has changed and it didn't make it to the theme on launchpad
[23:21] <nand> ok, trying
[23:21] <newz2000> maybe do a diff between them
[23:21] <newz2000> I've got to finish up some graphics before the end of my day, so I'm not going to be able to help much
[23:22] <newz2000> first "des moines web geeks" meeting is tonight. ;-)
[23:24] <nand> newz2000: thanks a lot, anyway time bed for me, but I'll have to handle that soonish anyway.
[23:24] <newz2000> ok, if you're ok with fixed width, ping me and I'll get you ubuntu08
[23:25] <nand> newz2000: do you have a non-fixed version of it? :)
[23:25] <nand> working perfectly on IE
[23:25] <newz2000> no, sorry, though canonical.com's theme is better and nearly identical
[23:25] <newz2000> it has the "short page" problem though where rhs gets cut off on short pages
[23:26] <newz2000> just need a min-height for that though
[23:26] <Volans> newz2000: Hi :) the same short page problem that was on the fridge?
[23:26] <newz2000> similar
[23:26] <nand> good night all!
[23:27] <Volans> ah, if you need nand I can help for the IE6 min-heignt problem