[01:39] <draeath> What does one do if a report regarding a package dependency (suggest/recommend specifically) has not been answered for at least 20 days?
[01:40] <draeath> (Bug 251367) It's no big deal for me, but it's a workaround for 22007, yet it currently requires using Equivs.
[06:06] <Hew> What GPG key is used for the ddebs repo, and should this info be added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash ?
[06:11] <LaserJock> hmm, I would've thought it'd be the same key as archive.ubuntu.com
[06:12] <LaserJock> does it give authentication warnings?
[06:15] <wgrant> I hope not... that would mean that rookery had the archive key.
[06:15] <wgrant> Which is very, very bad.
[06:15] <persia> It is a different key.
[06:16] <LaserJock> ok, fine, I stand corrected ;-)
[06:19] <persia> Hmm.  There was once a useful wiki page that said what key to import, but I'm not currently finding it.
[06:20] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think it'd get used all that much
[06:21] <persia> Why not?  I don't see how it's any more safe installing untrusted debsym packages than untrusted packages of other types.
[06:21] <persia> s/debsym/dbgsym/
[06:22] <wgrant> persia: dbgsyms aren't executable, are they?
[06:22] <wgrant> Although.
[06:22] <wgrant> Hm.
[06:22] <LaserJock> right, but you don't often install many debug packages
[06:22] <wgrant> I guess postinsts and the like can kill you.
[06:23] <persia> wgrant: Also, do you know they aren't executable?  Imagine what could go in one.
[06:24] <LaserJock> well, I personally don't care, but I guess some people would so it's nice to have the key around
[06:26] <persia> LaserJock: Dangerous not to care: DNS is not reliable, nor is IP.  TCP only guarantees that the received data matches the sent data.  You need to check it sometime if you want to get the right thing.
[06:26] <persia> (this has nothing to do with recent vulnerabilities: it's inherent in the architecture of the internet)
[06:26] <LaserJock> right
[06:26] <LaserJock> but debug packages are the least of my worries
[06:27] <LaserJock> I install a few a year probably
[06:27] <LaserJock> I use PPAs all the time
[06:27] <persia> Right.  You're already lost then :)
[06:27] <wgrant> I do hope they get on with fixing that.
[06:27] <wgrant> Although maybe one severe vulnerability per year is their limit
[06:28] <persia> I'm not sure there is a good solution to that.  I guess signing everything with a PPA key at least guarantees the data in transit, but anything can end up in a PPA.
[06:29] <wgrant> Per-archive keys are needed, but that's a lot of extra keys floating around.
[06:30] <persia> Indeed, and if those keys are attached to the email addresses of those who own the archive, it gets extra-messy.
[06:30] <wgrant> No, it gets wrong and whoever decided that gets yelled at.
[06:31] <persia> Well, yes, but as the keyservers don't allow deletion of any data, it is both wrong and exceedingly messy.
[06:31] <wgrant> I do hope they ask knowledgable people first.
[06:34] <ppp> Ping RAOF - quck message?
[06:35] <LaserJock> wgrant: have you read the LP bug on that?
[06:35] <wgrant> LaserJock: I'm subscribed, and I think I'm up to date.
[06:35] <LaserJock> k
[06:36] <LaserJock> seems like colin was shooting for a two-key solution
[06:36] <LaserJock> I don't get the details though
[06:36] <wgrant> Wasn't it individual archive keys with a key-encrypting key?
[06:36] <persia> Which bug is this?  And should this discussion be on #launchpad?
[06:36] <wgrant> Perhaps so.
[06:37] <LaserJock> persia: perhaps but I'm not sure it matters ...
[06:37] <wgrant> Bug #125103
[06:38] <persia> LaserJock: I think it does: it means that people interesting in LP see the discussion, and people interested in working with Ubuntu Bugs don't have lots of off-topic traffic.
[06:38] <LaserJock> lol, people work on bugs in here?! ;-)
[06:39] <persia> Yes, indeed.  People work on bugs in here.  That's the reason for the channel.
[06:49] <RAOF> ppp: Almost everything will be using playbin at this point; it's a Banshee 1.4 goal to use playbin2, IIRC.
[06:50] <ppp> RAOF - thanks - Gnome devs arent fixing playbin bugs they want to port Totem to playbin2 in this cycle :( :(
[06:54] <RAOF> ppp: You mean that the Totem devs won't be fixing stuff that'll be fixed in a move to playbin2, or that gstreamer devs aren't going to be fixing playbin bugs?
[06:55] <ppp> RAOF; Gnome Totem Dev said in July "I'm hoping to port totem over to playbin2 in this release cycle, so not sure
[06:55] <ppp> it's worth spending time figuring out why this doesn't work right or how to
[06:55] <ppp> hack around it. We've lived with it for so long we'll manage another month."
[06:55] <ppp> No news since
[06:57] <RAOF> ppp: That's seems a perfectly fine response to me; there's no point in fixing bugs in code that'll be cut soon.
[06:58] <ppp> Seems to me he's running out of time / is out of time (??) to get this changed for the current gnome cycle
[06:59] <RAOF> Possibly.
[06:59] <ppp> Yeah, so where is the commitment to quality? Needless to say mplayer just works with this functionality
[07:00] <RAOF> If he hasn't finished the playbin2 port he wouldn't have time to fix it anyway.
[07:02] <ppp> Ubuntu is seriously broken when it comes to media playback through gstreamer / totem :( Oh well, I guess I'll just keep reporting bugs and doing my bit
[07:02] <mrooney> ppp: don't forget it's open source; patches welcome :)
[07:02] <RAOF> We don't have anywhere near enough developers to _write_ the code; that's not our job :).
[07:02] <RAOF> Yeah; feel free to patch it (hopefully it's not _too_ hard).
[07:03] <mrooney> RAOF: interestingly enough though one problem we do have I think, is a shortage of people reviewing patches from non-devs
[07:03] <RAOF> mrooney: Yeah; most of them should probably be pushed upstream.
[07:03] <mrooney> there are numerous bug reports that have been open for awhile and have also had a patch for awhile, without comment :[
[07:04] <persia> mrooney: That's part of the overall shortage of devs:  Take a look at harvest for an example of all the stuff we know could be fixed that hasn't been done yet.
[07:04] <ppp> I understand mate - its upstream and Im working with Gnome and gstreamer now to report upstream bugs and discuss.
[07:04] <mrooney> persia: harvest? (hi!)
[07:04] <LaserJock> harvest makes me cry :(
[07:05] <LaserJock> mrooney: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/
[07:05] <persia> http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/sourcepackages.html note that there are many other automated lists of work needing to be done that aren't on there yet.
[07:06] <persia> (automated lintian checks, RCbugs, conflictchecker, NBS, etc.)
[07:21] <ppp> Ping RAOF : Is there a way to tell Totem to only playback the first few frames of footage so I can see the elements being used by gstreamer without spamming up the console? Im currently using GST_DEBUG=3 totem /link/to/test
[07:23] <RAOF> ppp: Not that I know of, no.  You could just create a tiny (one frame) file, though.
[07:24] <ppp> Yeah I was thinking about transcoding my test suite for that - I ll get onto it, thanks
[08:01] <ppp> How do I link a bug I reported to the upstream bug Ive now found?
[08:09] <RAOF> ppp: The "also affects" link.
[08:10] <ppp> Thanks mate, updated
[08:38] <snadge> with latest proposed updates.. just got a new nvidia driver, kernel update 21
[08:38] <snadge> the search bar in firefox has stopped working.. like you can type in it, but cant press enter or click the search magnifying glass
[08:39] <persia> snadge: Is this before or after reboot from the new kernel?
[08:39] <snadge> after reboot
[08:39] <snadge> just wondering if anyone else can reproduce this
[08:52] <limcore_box2> hello
[08:52] <limcore_box2> against what package should I report a system wide bug in konfiguration or ubuntu's approach to given topic?
[08:57] <snadge> nobody? :(
[09:08] <wgrant> snadge: That sounds like a Firefox upgrade that you haven't restarted aftr.
[09:08] <wgrant> That's a normal symptom for that situation.
[09:15] <tuxmaniac> heya warp10
[09:16] <warp10> hi tuxmaniac!
[09:36] <snadge> ack my browsers keep crashing
[09:36] <snadge> how do i back out the latest nvidia update from proposed?
[09:38] <snadge> fuck i cant use by browser for long enough to figure out how to do it :p
[09:45] <snadge> figured it out.. can do it with synaptic, thanks guys :P
[10:01] <snadge> ok, i've managed to stop my browser from repeatedly crashing.. i _think_ by booting back into -20-rt, from the updates -21-rt
[10:01] <snadge> but firefox 3 keeps telling me its been updated and needing to restart.. and the google search bar doesnt work in it
[10:08] <snadge> never mind.. im a wanker, i ran out of disk space
[10:08] <snadge> would be nice if there was a panel notification for that ;)
[10:09] <persia> There used to be a notification of low disk space, but lots of people complained that it was distracting, and made assumptions about how the disk was organised.
[10:09] <persia> The trick is finding a way to provide the notification without being annoying, and I don't think that has been figured out yet.
[10:10] <persia> If everyone has a 300GB drive, it's easy, but when some people have 2GB and some people have 5TB, it's harder.
[10:11] <snadge> well in my case i had nothing left
[10:11] <snadge> so i dont think its too much to ask to say "there is NOTHING left"
[10:11] <snadge> because that actually causes the system to become unstable
[10:11] <snadge> things start behaving in strange ways
[10:12] <snadge> here i was blaming the recent updates.. since thats what i was doing at the time it started to become unstable, when the reality is, those updates consumed the last of the available space ;)
[10:13] <snadge> i think having only a few megabytes left is definitely a problem
[10:13] <snadge> anything greater than that is arguably annoying
[10:14] <snadge> you can use nagios and other ways of alerting you for that.. this is more of a critical system thing
[10:15] <snadge> might prevent a few false bug reports too
[10:20] <persia> snadge: Hmm.  That makes sense.  I'd suggest a mail to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com to discuss the problem, as I have no idea against which package to file a bug, and I know that similar functionality was previously available (I've not run out of disk space in a while).
[10:22] <snadge> its amusing when you type df.. thinking i wonder.. then see the 0 on your root
[10:22] <snadge> yeah, thats definitely a problem that i should know about without having to actively investigate.. hehe
[10:25] <snadge> kind of interesting that the google search bar stops working, and doesnt produce an error
[13:09] <seisen> I have a question about this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/253785
[13:09] <seisen> it sounds to me that Rockbox is the problem not the music players themselves, am I correct in thinking that?
[13:11] <persia> seisen: It's one of those awkward things.  The interface isn't working, but it's not clear which side should be fixed.
[13:11] <persia> It's really a matter of who gets to it first, as much as anything else.
[13:12] <persia> If you have the hardware, and can confirm, it could be set to "Confirmed".  I'm fairly certain it's "Wishlist" though.
[13:12] <persia> (It would be a different matter if one could install Ubuntu on the iPod and it didn't sync : that's probably "Low")
[13:13] <seisen> ya I don't  have an Ipod so I can't really test it
[13:13] <persia> seisen: Yeah.  Neither I.  Better to leave for someone who can test.
[13:13] <seisen> I figured it was a Rockbox problem because the original Ipod firmware works just fine
[14:21] <mrooney> okay, I am moving today so if anyone is interested in hosting EeeBotu in #ubuntu-bugs-announce while I transition (it should be back up 6 hours or so at the latest), feel free, the code is on the wiki page in the topic of channel!
[15:05] <hggdh_> all -- I am running Eeebotu meanwhile. Please ping me (and wait patiently, I may be out walking the dogs, or whatever) if something happens.
[15:38] <bdmurray> hggdh: that's run out of his home?
[15:40] <persia> It currently runs of his workstation, as the Eee isn't doing very well.  It used to run off an Eee in the corner.
[15:42] <bdmurray> hmm
[15:42] <persia> You've a more reliable host for it?
[15:43] <bdmurray> persia: I'm looking at bug 105498.  rmadison shows that as being available but I can't find it via apt-cache search.
[15:44] <bdmurray> persia: I'd think some server would be a better idea.
[15:44] <persia> bdmurray: If you look at the rmadison output, you'll notice that it lists "source" but not "all", so it probably FTBFS.  Contrast with rmadison update-manager
[15:45] <persia> (and also, I'm *really* excited about that, as I like that game, but could never figure out a good way to package it)
[15:45] <persia> bdmurray: Just requires someone to put up a server somewhere.
[15:46] <persia> Anyone have a server on which EeeBotu may live?  Ideally it would auto-pull from bzr on a scheduled basis to run any updates in the code.
[15:46] <persia> (mind you, it would be best to chat with mrooney if you have such a server)
[15:46] <tuxmaniac> wiki is readonly again? any maintanence?
[15:48] <bdmurray> persia: okay, I found it ftbfs on i386
[15:48] <persia> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16375896/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.robocode_1.6.0%7Ebeta2-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :)
[15:48] <hggdh> bdmurray, if you mean eeebotu, I guess so. It is also being run, right now, from my home
[15:49] <persia> Looks like something funny with the last upload, which was supposed to fix the FTBFS without internet connection issue.
[15:49] <persia> http://packages.qa.debian.org/r/robocode/news/20080808T220205Z.html
[15:49] <bdmurray> persia: technically speaking it is packaged though right?
[15:51] <persia> Yes, the needs-packaging bug should be Fix Released.  It now shows up on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ , and so that may turn into a bug for a fix.
[15:51] <Hobbsee> persia: what is eeebotu?
[15:51] <persia> Hobbsee: http://www.reduz.com.ar/cheesetronic/index.php
[15:51] <persia> Err..
[15:51] <Hobbsee> errr...
[15:52] <Hobbsee> that link doesn't work
[15:52] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeRooney/EeeBotu
[15:52] <persia> No, and it's the wrong link to boot.
[15:53] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[16:51] <qense> james_w: Is there any documentation for wadllib? I think about porting it to PHP, since I need it there. However, that's hard to do if you don't understand the way it works.
[16:56] <ma10> Can someone please take a look at Bug 254034? It's bad, it's a regression and the patch is trivial.
[16:56] <ma10> it should be marked critical and accepted for intrepid..
[17:04] <bdmurray> I imagine if mdz knows about it, it will get taken care of.
[17:07] <ma10> oh didn't notice
[17:15] <hggdh> persia, I have servers where it eeebotu can be run. I will chat with mrooney later about it (and I can give mrooney access to it)
[17:15] <persia> hggdh: Excellent.  That will be significantly more stable in the long term.  Thank you.
[17:15] <bdmurray> hggdh: that'd be great!
[17:15] <hggdh> glad to be able to help
[17:26] <james_w> qense, I don't know of any, sorry
[17:26] <james_w> qense,
[17:26] <james_w> #launchpad may be a good place to ask
[17:27] <qense> OK I'll try there. Thanks!
[17:30] <james_w> qense, but if you find any let me know
[17:30] <qense> OK!
[21:28] <idwer> does this bug ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/257715 ) also apply when you try to start gnome-terminal by hitting alt+f2, and the "run" window hangs ? or, gnome-terminal is started but there is no commandline made visible ?
[22:22] <seisen> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/258497
[22:23] <seisen> should this be marked as invalid since the crash is caused by a plugin that's not provided by Ubuntu
[22:26] <bdmurray> sounds good to me
[22:26] <seisen> ok thanks