/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/16/#ubuntu-ops.txt

MyrttiI've died and gone to heaven. Really. Sheets in hotel beds...00:13
MyrttiAhh.00:13
nickrudno sheets at home?00:13
* Flannel thinks Myrtti must sleep on cardboard boxes at home.00:14
nickrudnah, probably guinea pig hides (the dark secret)00:15
jussi01hehe00:16
MyrttiI do have sheets at home, but none of this quality.00:34
Myrttiand duvets don't actually compare either.00:34
MezMyrtti, go buy egyptian cotton with a high thread coung00:42
Mezcont *00:42
=== Martinp23 is now known as martinp23
quentusrextestme?02:50
quentusrex<< test me >>02:51
quentusrextest me02:51
quentusrexhelp?02:51
Flannelquentusrex: You should do it in the other channel02:52
quentusrexthanks flannel, but I did... and nothing happened except that I received the malformed packets. But I didn't get disconnected....02:54
bazhangtry now quentusrex02:55
bazhangquentusrex, please part from here as there is a no idle policy (see /topic)02:56
quentusrexok02:56
elkbuntuquiet caturday03:36
FlannelThat's because its friday.03:40
ubottuzcat[1] called the ops in #ubuntu (master_ getting a bit irritating)03:42
bazhanggetting a bit irritating? haha04:07
elkbuntuFlannel, not here it isnt04:21
elkbuntuit's 1pm on caturday04:22
Flannelelkbuntu: You're crazy.04:22
elkbuntuno, just living in the future04:22
FlannelMmmm, you obviously control one point twenty one gigawatts.04:22
=== martinp23 is now known as Martinp23
elkbuntuhmmm... <FloodBot1> Clubuntu (*!*@adsl-75-57-189-206.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) is being let into #ubuntu from a gateway04:28
FlannelAgain?04:34
Flannelmoo_cow: How can we help you?04:35
Myrttioy. headache05:53
xgfhsdgfhsdI have a complaint regarding a translator that is making false translations07:59
ubottuIn ubottu, Bodsda|Away said: !punctuation is Please try and use correct punctuation in your posts. It makes things alot easier to read when it's neat. Thankyou08:25
ubottuIn ubottu, Bodsda|Away said: !ot is This is the Ubuntu support channel, please dont use this channel for general chit chat. Try #ubuntu-offtopic08:26
Myrttinöf08:31
FlannelHow can we help you Bodsda?08:44
BodsdaFlannel, i sent in 2 or three factoid changes which i wanted to talk about, ive been in here 5 or 6 times to ask to have them changed, i never get an answer, yes or no08:47
FlannelBodsda: offtopic is used in a number of channels, making it specific to #ubuntu isn't really as beneficial as it seems.  Also, if someone isn't "getting" the factoid, just explain it.08:47
ubottuLynoure called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()08:48
BodsdaFlannel, The problem is it doesnt at all convey any signs that the person reading it is being offtopic, its more of a channel list08:48
FlannelBodsda: Most people get it when you're addressing them with it, and again, there's nothing wrong with typing something out explaining it if they're not understanding.08:49
FlannelFactoids aren't supposed to replace actual interaction afterall.08:49
BodsdaFlannel, i thought one of the points of having an off topic factoid was so we didnt have to keep typing it to people08:49
Bodsdait is one of the most commonly used factoids, which no longer has any meaning08:50
FlannelBodsda: I've said it a few times already: the current factoid is sufficient for most people.08:50
BodsdaFlannel, what is it sufficient at? It certainly does not display to the intended person that s/he is being offtopic08:51
FlannelBodsda: Yeah it does.  If I say "Bodsda, wine support is in #winehq" most people would think "oh, hey, maybe I should go to #winehq"08:52
BodsdaFlannel, yes, but if i say "Hey flannel, #ubuntu is for support, #ubuntu-offtopic is for chat and #ubuntu+1 is for the next release of ubuntu. Welcome!         That doesnt tell them that they are being offtopic, especially if it is an irc first-timer08:53
FlannelBodsda: If it is so broken, why does it work most of the time?08:54
BodsdaFlannel, I never said it was 'broken' I said it does not convey to the user that s/he is being off topic08:54
elkbuntuBodsda, it people are not so stupid they cannot figure that talkign about their dog is not support09:06
elkbuntus/it//09:06
BodsdaI fail to see how that is relevant to the factoid being of little help elkbuntu09:06
elkbuntuBodsda, i do. since they are not stupid, they do figure out that it's directed at them, and they do move to the appropriate area09:07
Bodsdaelkbuntu, from experience, this is not the case 100% of the time, wheras with the old factoid, not only did they know about the offtopic channel, they also new that they should go there and stop chit chatting in the support channel09:08
elkbuntuBodsda, from experience, i do not find the success rate to be any less with the current version.09:10
Bodsdaelkbuntu, So you have no problem with the factoid being pointless, and im wasting my time here?09:11
elkbuntuBodsda, i have no problem with the factoid as it's currently effective. if by 'wasting my time' you mean 'i've voiced my opinion' then sure.09:13
BodsdaI have voiced my opinion and i dont believe it has been takin seriously09:13
FlannelBodsda: You're entitled to your opinions, but that's not the case.09:13
elkbuntuBodsda, we did take it seriously, but we're not going to change things just because you say09:14
bazhangholycow, how may we assist you.09:14
BodsdaI feel i have a legitimate reason for it to change, just because you think it works as well does not change the fact that it does not tell the person that they are being offtopic, it merely points them to a bunch of other ubuntu related channels09:15
Flannelbazhang: He's redirected here09:15
bazhangFlannel, he is banned?09:16
Flannelbazhang: from k-kde409:16
bazhangaha09:16
elkbuntuBodsda, you've voiced your opinion. you have no further need to be here.09:16
Bodsdaelkbuntu, I'l leave in a second, I would just like to know if you can tell me, what was the reason for the factoid to be changed to what it is now?09:17
elkbuntuBodsda, because there are varying levels of offtopic, not just -offtopic offtopic.09:18
Bodsdaelkbuntu, So why not have varying levels of factoid? Why change it for the most gentle and honest case, leaving the more serious ones without a factoid?09:19
FlannelBodsda: Not "severity" levels09:19
elkbuntu+1 discussion is also offtopic in #ubuntu.09:20
FlannelBodsda: Talking about +1 is offtopic in #ubuntu, talking about released versions is offtopic in +1, etc.09:20
Bodsdayes, i dont see your point, talking about someone dead grandmother is off topic but you dont put that in the factoid09:21
elkbuntuBodsda, we have given you our reasons. you're not obliged to agree. you have given us your opinions. we're not obliged to agree.09:21
elkbuntuhowever taking up extended periods of our time is not considerate.09:21
Bodsdaactually elkbuntu you have not answered my question09:21
jussi01Could we not just prepend "Hi, you seem to be offtopic - " to the factoid? would that not settle both sides of this case?09:21
BodsdaYes thats fine with me09:21
elkbuntujussi01, sure.09:21
Bodsdathankyou jussi0109:22
jussi01:)09:22
* Flannel thinks its totally unnecessary.09:22
elkbuntuBodsda, cya.09:22
Bodsdayour not the frendliest of people are you elkbuntu09:22
BodsdaGood day09:22
elkbuntuBodsda, not when people use this channel for the sake of arguing09:22
FlannelNice of him to not listen to anything we said.09:23
jussi01mergh09:23
* Flannel wouldn't mind just not changing it at all.09:23
bazhanghe means well09:23
jussi01He does have a point though - we talked about this a week or two ago.09:23
elkbuntujussi01, this wont change a thing. trust me.09:23
Flanneljussi01: I explained it... twice to him fairly well:  people who would figure out one facotid would figure out the other.09:24
elkbuntujussi01, he wasnt going to go away until he felt he got his way. since he now thinks all he has to do to get his way is argue with us here until it happens. yay for timesinks.09:25
FlannelMost people aren't stupid.  Sure, the factoid doesn't cover everyone, but they wouldn't understand anyway.09:25
bazhangelkbuntu, not fair to lump him with true timesinks09:25
Flannelbazhang: We said the same thing to him four times, at least.09:25
elkbuntubazhang, i didnt say all timesinks were equal09:26
Flanneland he replied in the same way, each of the four times.09:26
* elkbuntu nods at flannel09:26
bazhangwhatever.09:26
FlannelHe wasn't listening to what we said at all, and wasn't going to consider our opinions valid in the least.09:26
elkbuntubazhang, note where he insisted i never answered his question, despite the fact that i did09:27
elkbuntuit's a technique used by one of our least favourite users09:27
elkbuntuactually09:27
elkbuntuit's a common thing to all our least-favourite users09:27
bazhangbodsda is very active and helpful; to compare him to others of which you refer is not right.09:27
elkbuntubazhang, he might be active and helpful, that does not make him any less a time sink, or any less arrogant09:28
elkbuntubazhang, persisting like he did here was *not* helpful09:28
Flannelbazhang: Often times the problem ones are extremely helpful when they want to be/when they get their way/etc.  Not talking about any specifics here, just in general.09:29
FlannelThey aren't mutually exclusive, unfortunately.09:29
elkbuntuexcusing someone's behaviour based on the fact that they help is really not a good idea. else we'd be allowing someone to exploit users in #ubuntu with dcc exploits, providing they help fix a few xorgs or throw out good links09:29
bazhangthe idea that there is one permanent right solution is too inflexible imo.09:30
elkbuntubazhang, we didnt say that. we just did not want to regress09:31
elkbuntuhe was asking for a regression09:31
bazhangas the community evolves, so should some of the ways it is governed.09:31
Flannelbazhang: How is that relevant here?09:32
elkbuntubazhang, sure, then how about we make factoids not work unless they're directed (!ot | bazhang). that will make them have a higher hit rate. if people use the tool right, it doesnt need a token 'you suck' at the begining09:34
bazhangelkbuntu, I agree that the current ot factoid is good.09:36
Hobbseeikonia: was asleep, sorry.  you can try and send a mail to the irc list to see if they'll add more ops, but they might maintain that enough are there.09:37
elkbuntui also dont like the idea of us having to agree with everything a user says, just to make them go away. we're *not* customer service. if they need a customer ego boost, they can buy a support contract and have mneptok and magicfab make them feel big09:37
jussi01hehe09:37
bazhangelkbuntu, the quibble I had was with calling him a timesink.09:37
elkbuntubazhang, when things go circular like he made it go, it *is* a time sink.09:38
Flannelbazhang: Thats not the first time I've had that offtopic factoid discussion with him here either.09:38
bazhangFlannel, yes I'm aware.09:38
Flannelbazhang: So... If he's asking the same thing over and over again, and not paying attention to the responses... how is that not a time sink?09:39
jussi01err... wasnt this guy banned? or am I way behind... (or just wrong) [Whois] AlmightyCthulhu is AlmightyCthulhu!n=Almighty@c-68-57-223-4.hsd1.in.comcast.net (AlmightyCthulhu)09:39
jussi01in #u09:40
elkbuntujussi01, i believe so, check the ban list09:40
Flanneljussi01: No, I looked, he's not.09:40
Hobbseeand -bugs09:40
FlannelIn a few other channels yes, not in #09:40
Flannel#u09:40
elkbuntuhawk him09:40
bazhangwhy he is not removed from there I dont know.09:40
Hobbseegone09:40
elkbuntuif he's in -bugs, it's not going to be pretty09:40
bazhangthe things he has done go beyond the pale imo09:40
Hobbseeelkbuntu: he wasn't active.  i got him :)09:41
Hobbseehe probably won't be pleasant here, yes09:41
Flannelhope you have good spam filtering :)09:41
Hobbseei do09:41
Hobbseei have an @ubuntu.com address, so i need to.09:41
* Hobbsee ntoes that it's outsourced to someone else, too.09:42
FlannelI haven't gotten anything bad on mine... maybe I'm just not cool enough.09:42
Hobbseeelkbuntu: he's been s ilent recently in bugs - although i recall speaking to him a couple of weeks ago about how he was not to rant in there.09:42
bazhangI've noticed a huge upsurge in my spam of late09:42
Hobbseebazhang: you recently got membership?09:43
bazhangHobbsee, haha no09:44
Hobbseebazhang: hmmm.09:44
bazhangHobbsee, just loads of spam in my inbox of late directed to me personally including tons of mailing lists09:44
Hobbseethat's one thing i really don't like about ubuntu - IS's apparent lack of care about spam, and lack of spam filters.09:44
Hobbseeit seems like some spam filters were finally implemented, though09:44
Hobbseebazhang: darn.09:44
Flannelnot on list admins at least.09:45
bazhanggmail catches almost all though :)09:45
* Flannel prefers to own his own data.09:45
Flanneland I'm too lazy to set up procmail with spam filters09:46
Garyheads up on xokadim in #ubuntu - asking for mirc reg code, got banned in ##mirc for the same, then rejoined to swear09:47
FlannelIm going to kick him if he does it one more time09:47
* Hobbsee wonders what the heck her gmail password is09:51
FlannelHobbsee: 123409:51
FlannelHobbsee: If it makes you feel any better, I seem to have forgotten my gpg passphrase.  I even brute forced (I know the phrase, don't know which permutation I used) it for a couple thousand passwords.  Going to end up revoking it.09:52
Hobbseeouch09:53
Flannelyeah, well, luckily I hadn't used it much, so its more of just an embarassment over anything else.09:53
bazhangjust had a chat with Bodsda10:00
bazhangtold him there are many more factoids that need fixing; much more so than !ot10:00
bazhangseems the best way to get one changed is not to come here and argue about it :)10:01
Hobbseehurrah.  gmail has a help thing on how to reset an admin password.10:03
Hobbseesigh.10:08
Hobbsee[19:07] <AlmightyCthulhu> mind telling me what's up your ass?10:08
* Hobbsee turns notifications off, and ignroes it10:08
Hobbseenalioth: are you interested i n this guy harassing me in PM?10:10
* Hobbsee ntoes that his current behaviour is indicating that he'll never be in any ubuntu channels, nor perhaps freenode, ever again.10:13
* Hobbsee pokes nalioth again10:14
Hobbseeyay for personal attacks, or something...10:14
* Flannel votes for the or something...10:15
HobbseeFlannel: did you want to see?10:15
FlannelHobbsee: not really, no.  I've seen fallout from him before, I can fill in the blanks10:16
HobbseeFlannel: ahhh.10:16
jussi01I love the sarcasm here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7964349324.html10:21
elkbuntujussi01, hehe, yeah. as much as i dislike it, who are we to deny the poor kids xp if that's what they choose11:09
elkbuntu(yes, i know the kids dont choose, but you know what i mean)11:10
jussi01hrm... is anyone else not able to watch trailers from apple?11:10
jussi01elkbuntu: yeah. true...11:11
elkbuntunot sure i actually care to watch them...11:11
jussi01elkbuntu: hehe, I guessed  someone would come out with that..11:11
* jussi01 is busy procrastinating11:11
elkbuntujussi01, olpc's decision to go with the xp deal has caused quite a rift, some of the contributors protesting by leaving the project. however, the olpc's priority is education. if supporting xp means it educates more, then cest la vie.11:12
ikoniaelkbuntu: there is a very very good case of that in the UK at the moment11:22
ikoniafor a major schools project Redhat where brought in for all server and desktop rolls for a major part of the UK (all schools)11:23
ikoniaMicrosoft offered server licenses at £80 per server, and desktop licenses at £10 (I think per seat) Redhat had no education discount and wanted £280 per server, per year, and I think it was £80 per desktop per year11:24
ikoniahow can the education sector refuse that11:24
elkbuntuyeah11:25
elkbuntubackup in -offtopic please12:07
* Hobbsee belatedly brings out the guns12:11
Hobbseeahem.12:11
jpdselkbuntu: He's gone.12:11
elkbunturemind me again who that is?12:44
jpdsZAKEZ.. or something like that.12:45
elkbuntuno, i mean who ^^ and ASUS-tek etc12:45
elkbuntuall the one person12:45
elkbuntuMyrtti's favourite iirc12:45
=== Jucato_ is now known as Jucato
Myrtti 13:18
MyrttiWhat/who is my favorite? No backlog...13:18
Seeker`ASUS-tek13:19
MyrttiYeah13:19
MyrttiIs he still as annoying?13:19
* jussi01 does a little "I fixed it" dance :D13:42
* Myrtti sighs13:43
jussi01Myrtti: hows the head?13:44
MyrttiBetter.13:44
jussi01you going to write that thing form me soon?13:44
MyrttiYeah, when I can be bothered to get my laptop13:45
jussi01hehe13:46
* jussi01 finally fixed his "large fonts" issue13:46
* Myrtti vanishes13:50
Seeker`:O13:51
Seeker`where did she go!13:51
* Hobbsee turns Seeker` into a squirrel13:51
Seeker`:(13:52
Seeker`thats not very nice13:54
Hobbseeyou don't like being a squirrel?13:57
Hobbseehaving a big bushy tail is'nt fun?13:57
Seeker`nope13:59
Hobbseebut you could thump people with it.  and bite their ankles114:01
Seeker`thats what hands and teeth are for :P14:01
=== PriceChild is now known as to
=== to is now known as PriceChild
jussi01PriceChild: ?14:32
* Myrtti yawns15:59
* jussi01 puts something in Myrtti's mouth and shoves her on a plane...16:00
ikonia????16:00
Myrttijussi01 you paying?16:02
jussi01Myrtti: I wish I could...16:02
MyrttiYeah... i paid my bus ticket to moms with visa...16:03
MyrttiI guess I shouldve paid few vodka shots less yesterday16:03
MyrttiNom16:22
ompaulafternoon all - and what a week that was  -- routing from the 5th level of hell, firewalls from the 9th level of hell, xservers from the 2nd level of hell, general other stuff and then some16:32
ompaulI is still kicking16:32
ompaulanway I am about to do what I usually do on a Saturday -8 hours on now16:32
MyrttiYay16:32
ompauli.e. remove bans that I think are ok to remove and over a week old - you know the score at this stage16:33
ompaul foo*!*@ if you really want to keep someone out and I will leave the ip that goes within a min of that16:33
ompaul+- a little16:33
PriceChildompaul: -offtopic could probably do with a little too.16:33
ompaulPriceChild, I only did that last week ;-)16:33
ompaulI'll have a look16:34
ompaulPriceChild, ot does not usually get such an increase that is worry some16:34
ompaulhowever I will look after this little scroll fest16:34
ikoniaofftopic has been manic this week16:34
ompaulahh16:35
ompaulmaybe they heard about my problems and went for it ;-)16:35
ompaulheheh16:35
ompaulikonia, you got your mobile handy?16:35
ikoniaerrr hang on16:36
PriceChildelky suggested removing the emma nick/username bans, leaving the hostmask one, and maybe some other of the wide catching ones.16:36
ikoniait's somewhere here16:36
ompaulPriceChild, as in @unafil/emma leave that ?16:36
ompaulikonia, it is ringing :P16:37
ikoniaI can't hear it16:37
ikonia2 minutes, just looking16:37
ompaulstopped16:37
ompaulthen16:37
ompaulPriceChild, ?16:37
ikoniamaybe in the car16:37
ikoniaback in 216:37
ompaulack16:38
PriceChildompaul: for now16:38
ompaulack16:38
elkbuntuPriceChild, yep, not to let those people back in, since the bans are still in force, but rather to not disadvantage other people with common names such as emma and joseph16:42
elkbuntuspecifically the idents16:42
* ompaul looks16:46
ompaulagain16:46
ompaulonly saw one joseph16:46
ompaulikonia, find it?17:32
* Myrtti sighs18:38
Myrttihmmmmmmmmm19:06
Myrtti21:06 [freenode] @,- songq [n=1983@123.9.167.239]19:06
Myrtti21:06 [freenode] @,-  ircname  : 198319:06
tritiumHe has been a bit of a pain.19:08
Myrttisomehow that ident just strikes me as something that might be in connection to Baron1984 and AlmightyCthulhu19:09
bazhangthink its icesword19:10
bazhangnot angry enough to be baron19:10
tritiumIt is.  I +q'ed icesword, so he changed his nick.19:10
tritiumI warned about ban evading, but he calmed down, for the most part.19:11
tritiumWhat's he doing now?19:11
bazhangnot much19:11
ompaul198319:21
ompaul.. close to 1984+19:21
ompaulip from APNIC19:25
naliothshould i shut ubot3 down until this wind and storms pass?19:45
naliothi've been calling for over a year and half for this problem and the phone company comes out on nice sunny windless days, tests the line, and pronounces "nothing wrong" and leaves19:46
Seeker`nalioth: High winds drop your connection?20:17
naliothSeeker`: old line = shorts20:29
Seeker`ah20:29
naliothi've shut ubot3 down20:30
nalioththis is just too damned crappy20:30
naliothyou can see when the storm hit my area from when ubot3 started cycling20:31
naliothubot3 should be back up within an hour or two20:32
naliothi'm hoping this crap clears out20:32
* Myrtti sighs20:46
jussi01nalioth: you sure you dont want to take me up on my offer?21:01
naliothjussi01: at this point, i don't have the upload ability to put ubot3 there21:03
jussi01nalioth: it should only be a small upload - the bot dir should be small, and tarred even smaller21:06
ompaul!btlogin21:07
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about btlogin21:07
ompaul@btlogin21:07
Flannel!lag21:21
ubottuYou have lag, I don't have lag21:21
naliothjussi01: it just took me this long to get back here21:21
Seeker`it would be so funny if the resoponse to that was laged21:21
jussi01nalioth: hehe21:21
jussi01poor guy, your connection sucks21:21
naliothi'm getting about am minute of internet21:21
jussi01mrgh21:22
jussi01stdin: ping21:25
jussi01that reminds me... did I file that bug yet?22:22
* jussi01 looks22:22
jussi01hrm... no I didnt...22:26
ubottuIn ubottu, Agent_bob said: so is a caliper,   btw i've done some machinest work...  ;/22:33
naliothwe will try this one more time23:58
FlannelYou know, I kind of want to know what the caliper comment is in response to23:59

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