=== DanaG1 is now known as DanaG === marko_ is now known as marko-_- [01:56] hi [01:57] what is the new theme gonna look like [05:58] Intrepid is wonderful. [06:00] you wont agree when it eats your grub like it did mine the other day. === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG [06:21] * Hobbsee wonders where the multimedia buttons have gone [06:25] * DanaG asks Hobbsee: is your keyboard layout set to "Evdev Managed Keyboard"? [06:25] Oh yeah, and how do I make myself privileged to set realtime priority on stuff without running it as root? [06:25] ( for stuff such as timidity.) [06:26] DanaG: nope. where does that get set? [06:26] Option "XkbLayout" "us" ? [06:26] KDE, or Gnome? [06:26] gnome [06:26] Aah, System->Preferences->Keyboard [06:27] Tab: layouts. [06:27] then, yes. [06:27] it is [06:27] Aah. [06:27] Hobbsee, maybe the config looks like my menu.lst :Þ [06:27] Oh yeah, now go to Keyboard Shortcuts and rebind them; they may have changed from raw hex into names. [06:28] Random bug link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/217504 [06:28] Launchpad bug 217504 in linux "acpi_fakekey stopped working for certain keycodes" [High,In progress] [06:29] DanaG: that's done it, thanks. [06:29] although, my advance key doesn't work still [06:31] i wonder if it's that bug... [06:34] Advance? As in, next tracks? [06:34] s/tracks/track/ [06:35] yes [06:36] xev doesn't find it at all [06:36] it came in in hardy, but i don't think it ever got tracked down [06:39] Hmm, does 'showkey' on console give anything? [06:39] DanaG: Couldnt get a file descriptor referring to the console ? [06:39] Or does it maybe show up when you do 'tail -f /var/log/acpid' [06:39] showkey has to be on a TTY. [06:42] what do i do? run it on a TTY, and press the button? i don't need to pipe somewhere? [06:43] iirc, last time i tried something w ith showkey, it did Really Bad Things... [06:44] ah, right. [06:44] DanaG: it doesn't come up on showkey, nor on acpid. [06:45] Odd. [06:45] What type of laptop? [06:45] dell 6400 [06:45] what's really odd is that these worked before. [06:46] Odd. [06:54] ah... [06:55] hm. nope, not that. [06:56] the key that isn't working is defined twice in hotkey setup... [07:19] anyone having random x server crashes? >< [07:20] Not I, said the wolf. [07:20] i think it might have something to do with vmware [07:21] im working away and all of a sudden im dropped to a terminal window === BaD-Laptop is now known as BaD_CrC [08:26] is there a trigger I can use here to search for packages in 8.10? [08:27] Ayabara: !find works, but please play with it in a privmessage. [08:28] RAOF: thanks. can I find out the version of sw as well? what I wonder is if digikam 0.10 beta2 is installed in 8.10 [08:28] !info digikam [08:28] digikam (source: digikam): digital photo management application for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 2:0.9.3-2ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 6890 kB, installed size 21928 kB [08:30] check also LP as ubottu knows only packages which got successfully build [08:30] RAOF: ah. ok. [08:31] intrepid "has" digikam 0.9.4 but it FTBFS [08:31] I thought intrepid was gonna be kde4 [08:37] Ayabara: it is [08:37] gnomefreak: but kde3 as well, since digikam is version 0.9.4? [08:37] Ayabara: no [08:39] Ayabara: intrepid doesnt have a ~/.kde3 its ~/.kde and by default that is kde4 [08:40] gnomefreak: ok. shouldn't digikam 0.10 be the one included then? [08:40] Ayabara: im sorry at the moment we do have kde3 dir [08:40] * gnomefreak wonders if things have changed [08:41] !info digikam-kde4 [08:41] digikam-kde4 (source: digikam-kde4): digital photo management application for KDE 4. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10.0~beta1-0ubuntu2 (intrepid), package size 9759 kB, installed size 24100 kB [08:41] * gnomefreak is asking [08:42] aha. I want that to be beta-2 instead :) [08:43] Is II usable if I accept the occasional crash/bug? sorry, but I had to ask ;-) [08:43] Yes; I use it. [08:43] That said, don't expect it to boot tomorrow :) [08:43] maybe it is gonna be kde4 since ~/.kde4 is empty for most part [08:44] RAOF: point taken :) [08:48] RAOF: do you knwo wherer the system beep setting is at. i couldnt find it in gconf [08:49] gnomefreak: I'm not even totally sure which system beep you mean :) [08:49] RAOF: the beep from CPU [08:49] RAOF: the "ping" that you get when someone says your nick in IRC among other places [08:50] * RAOF doesn't get one of those. [08:50] Regardless of which particular beep it is, I don't know. :) [08:50] RAOF: ok thanks [08:52] digikam released beta2 on the 1st of august. what's a good guess for when it will reach the repos? [08:54] i wanna know when transmisson 1.32 will hit it [08:54] When someone packages it? [08:54] ;) [08:55] it is the official torrent client >< [08:56] atleast fonts in ubuntU+1 look nice n crispy [08:59] Beep from CPU? Processors can't beep. [08:59] The more correct term is "case" or "chassis" or "motherboard" or something like that. [08:59] Or merely "PC Speaker" [09:20] Speakerdectomy time! :) [09:22] Nope, blacklist snd_pcsp time. [09:25] thats not as fun! [10:11] hi guys [10:46] when you fire up update-manager -d in hardy is it supposed to show you the option to update to intrepid alpa ## or do you have to adjust the apt-sources to be able to upgrade? [11:15] you may need '-c' for "consider development versions' [11:16] 大家好阿 [11:16] I am a chinese === BaD-Laptop is now known as BaD_CrC [11:29] No such option with -c either DanaG [11:32] rexy_: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/alpha4 is likely what you want. [11:33] nah that's just iso's, seem to recall having done upgrades this way on previous releases, but maybe those were beta's iunoo [11:46] -c is not needed its assumed by update-manager [11:50] rexy_: You'll find in the second paragraph it says "to upgrade, +F2 and type in 'update-manager -d' without the quotes" :) [11:56] RAOF, did that but it just gives me the normal update screen, and not an added button which lets me upgrade [11:57] rexy_: when u-m opens choose update/upgrade than the new release should show up [11:57] i just have two buttons check and install updates [11:58] rexy_: use check [11:58] when its done it will either need to install updates or it will give you the option to upgrade to intrepid [11:58] yeh it doesnt [11:59] * gnomefreak cant remember the exact order. [11:59] just check and greyed out install updates [11:59] rexy_: if its that important use the old way [11:59] aptitude dist-upgrade? [11:59] rexy_: yes or apt-get [12:00] * gnomefreak uses apt-get but most likley the upgrade will fail [12:00] i tried synaptic but it didnt start a dist-upgrade [12:00] atleast if using ubuntu [12:01] rexy_: than i suggest you wait since it seems you are not sure how to upgrade. its unlikely you can fix the problems you are going to have with broken packages [12:01] rexy_: HINT: you are missing a very important step [12:02] which is? [12:03] rexy_: have you looked at /etc/apt/sources.list [12:03] * gnomefreak betting the repos says *hardy* [12:04] you mean the upgradenotes? [12:04] yeah i've got some intrepid sources too [12:04] but that just gives me a lot of package updates [12:04] rexy_: first you need to understand thats its very likely your upgrade will fail [12:04] but not a distribution upgrade button [12:04] rexy_: only intrepid sources [12:05] in the sources.list file there will be no button :d [12:05] than run apt-get updaate [12:05] s0u][ight, heh, no i mean update-manager [12:05] rexy_: either get rid of intrepid sources and ue u-m or get rid of hardy sources and use terminal [12:06] rexy_: either way ubuntu-desktop is broken so its likely you will run into issues wince you need that package to upgrade [12:06] s/wince/since [12:07] ah yeah i guess that pose a problem [12:07] rexy_: a big one [12:07] rexy_: its fixable but its not easy or fast unless you know what you are doing than its fairly easy [12:07] but most deps will fail to upgrade as well [12:08] you will get errors like package depends on ubuntu-desktop version but ubuntu-desktop version isnt installed [12:09] version == version number of package [12:12] whats the trigger for the update-manager to show the button for a new release? [12:12] gnomefreak, i tried the various combinations in the apt.list but yeah seems upgrading that way atm is not a great idea :) [12:14] rexy_: before u-m does anything you need to remove hardy sources than restart u-m the way you did to begin with it should runa check than it should give you choice but u-m doesnt fix ubuntu-desktop [12:14] will intrepid finally support dmraid ? [12:14] rexy_: What does 'lsb-release -a' say? [12:14] gnomefreak, i tried it with every combination, no update-button with just ibex sources [12:15] hardy 8.04.1 [12:15] rexy_: did you restart u-m? [12:15] tacone: You'll want to define "support"; you've been able to use dmraid for quite some time ;). [12:15] yes [12:15] rexy_: than run apt-get update [12:15] also done that prior to running update-manager [12:15] rexy_: than dist-upgrade than watch for breakage [12:16] it just gave me a slew of packges to updates and complaints about broken packages [12:16] RAOF: on the wiki page of dmraid there's a box in the header which I believe being red :-). it says it's not supported. [12:16] *update [12:16] rexy_: didnt i just tell you that? [12:16] RAOF: using dmraid me too right now. but with some glitches. [12:16] rexy_: Yeah. You've got Intrepid, which is why update-manager isn't giving you the dist-upgrade ;) [12:17] RAOF: I wonder about livecd support, fdisk -l without errors and (very)basic assurance against data loss [12:17] RAOF, that wouldnt make sense, since i havent done anything with that yet [12:17] rexy_: But you've got the intrepid sources in your apt cache, which I suspect will confuse update-manager no end. [12:18] tacone: I don't know if anyone who cares about dmraid is doing anything about support; you could be that person, I guess :) [12:18] rexy_: you have a mixed system. go back to hardy repos no intrepid ones than run update and upgrade to hopfully give you either notihng or an error [12:18] i havent ran any intrepid updates [12:18] rexy_: to clear cache run sudo apt-get autoclean [12:19] that just removes stale install packages [12:19] rexy_: i knwo what it does [12:19] RAOF: I suck big time when it comes to low level question, I'm more suited to give support in other areas [12:19] then how would it help [12:19] rexy_: return your sources.list file to hardy [12:19] it's set to hardy [12:20] any intrepid ones? [12:20] nah [12:20] now save and close it and run sudo apt-get update [12:20] than run sudo apt-get dist-upgrade [12:21] 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. [12:21] rexy_: if it doesnt give anything than try installing ubuntu-desktop [12:21] 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. [12:21] rexy_: good [12:22] rexy_: now wait for intrepid to get fixed than worry about upgrading [12:22] well it doesnt have to be fixed, as long as i can install it to test some hw support [12:23] it should be fixed in a5 along with shutdown/restart/logout problems [12:23] rexy_: run a chroot [12:24] rexy_: get the ISO but you will still have problems with ubuntu-desktop its been broken for last 2 alpha releases [12:24] rexy_: maybe grab the xubuntu or the kubuntu ISO instead [12:24] neither are broken on my system [12:25] oh that reminds me === echidnaman is now known as JontheEchidnaa === JontheEchidnaa is now known as JontheEchidna [12:50] gnomefreak: my ubuntu-desktop is not broken [12:51] I mean, it's installed [12:51] I don't remember doing anything special to make it so [12:51] JollyGiant: then...fix it? [12:51] oh, not broken. never mind [12:51] JollyGiant: it is very much broken since we are missing the depends. ill show you hold on [12:52] The following packages will be REMOVED: scrollkeeper [12:52] you NEED that package [12:53] gnomefreak: Doesn't rarian replace it? [12:53] rarian-compat has Provides: scrollkeeper [12:53] and Replaces [12:54] ah [12:54] yep it seems to [12:54] And you don't "need" that anyway, unless you like reading GNOME documentation :P [12:57] Hobbsee: why did you kick him if i may know? [12:57] they havent fixed the deps yet on alot of packages [12:57] s0u][ight: because he is unwelcome, in any ubuntu channel. [12:57] s0u][ight: Known troll. [12:58] gnomefreak: They don't need to fix the deps, rarian-compat Provides scrollkeeper and that's fine [12:58] hell read /whois [12:58] scrollkeeper: Installed: (none) Candidate: 0.3.14-16ubuntu1 [12:58] how is that provided [12:59] he is op at #fuckubuntu XD [12:59] !ohmy [12:59] Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly. [12:59] s0u][ight: Do not join there. Thanks. [12:59] s0u][ight: he made the channel [12:59] gnomefreak: dpkg is weird? :) [12:59] jpds: i wont :D thats just what i got from whois :D [12:59] dpkg is fine [13:00] what is his problem? [13:00] JollyGiant: how does an app replace and provide [13:00] its one or other [13:00] gnomefreak: It's a packaging thing [13:00] s0u][ight: yes, we've realised. [13:00] * Hobbsee doubts he'll have it overly long. [13:00] It has to replace it so it can overwrite it's files and it has to provide it so it can satisfy dependencies [13:01] its [13:01] JollyGiant: the apps still run but the deps on that need ot be fixed [13:01] btw sorry for using that channel name :D [13:01] JollyGiant: point == it doesnt install it [13:01] nor depend on it [13:01] gnomefreak: They don't have to, but it would be good housekeeping to update the dependency to the package that actually has that stuff [13:02] The following packages will be REMOVED: rarian-compat ubuntu-desktop [13:02] The following NEW packages will be installed: scrollkeeper [13:02] Obviously installing scrollkeeper will remove rarian-compat [13:02] JollyGiant: it doesnt provide scrollkepper as you can see [13:02] Provides is for dependency resolution [13:03] JollyGiant: that is the point, it doesnt procide it it replaces it [13:03] provides [13:03] If you want to install scrollkeeper and that packages still exists it'll install it [13:03] If scrollkeeper was not in the archive it'd offer to install rarian-compat for you instead. [13:03] you don't want scrollkeeper, surely? [13:03] You don't [13:04] the package needs to be fixed one dont depend on scrollkeeper and 2 dont list it as a provide [13:04] gnomefreak: You keep saying 'needs to be fixed' as if something was broken. [13:04] errors are not usrer feindly [13:05] JollyGiant: end user isnt gonna understand why all those packages depend on scrollkeeper as erros states [13:05] There is no error. If you explicitly choose to install scrollkeeper you get it. If you install ubuntu-desktop you get rarian-compat and things that depend on scrollkeeper are fine with using it. [13:06] So changing the dependencies would just be a housekeeping thing, not a requirement for a working package. [13:06] http://pastebin.mozilla.org/518031 [13:07] JollyGiant: tell me again there is no error there [13:07] There is no error there [13:07] If you install totem-xine dpkg will tell you the same thing about the totem package [13:07] dpkg: scrollkeeper: dependency problems, [13:08] For a small time those packages are missing a dependency but since apt knows it is installing something that provides that dependency it tells dpkg to ignore it [13:08] You'll notice the install didn't actually fail. [13:08] it shouldnt. and wont be by release time im sure. the packages need the depends so the end user doesnt see this [13:09] No end user will see that unless they do a manual dist-upgrade [13:09] end user should never see that [13:09] on a stable release [13:09] gnomefreak: and they won't, because they'll use the dist-upgrader. [13:09] People using update-manager won't see or care, it'll just work [13:10] Hobbsee: dist-upgrade fails due to depends issue please see topic above with rexy_ [13:10] gnomefreak: If it fails rarian-compat/scrollkeeper is not the reason it fails. [13:10] gnomefreak: Guaranteed 100%, that is _not_ the reason. [13:10] JollyGiant: it fails on ubuntu-desktop [13:11] gnomefreak: For some other reason. [13:11] gnomefreak: If the dist-upgrade is failing on rarian-compat/scrollkeeper that is an apt bug. [13:11] for a depends issue ant since that is only dep issue with ubuntu-desktop its very likely scrollkeeper [13:11] And if apt had such a bug I doubt any transition would ever be possible in the Debian world. [13:12] gnomefreak: i presume you'll give a summary, with apt logs. [13:12] its not an apt issue if anything its either a dpkg issue or a dep issue [13:12] gnomefreak: Would you be more likely to believe me if I did /nick Amaranth? [13:12] Hobbsee: i didnt have the issue rexy_ did so he can provide them [13:12] and that is *not* the only dep issue with u-d, in the entirety of ubuntu. [13:12] please do not talk crack. [13:13] Hobbsee: most liekly not but its the only one i see [13:13] show me another one [13:13] This is not even a dependency issue [13:13] It is gnomefreak seeing scary looking things from dpkg he doesn't understand and thinking it's an issue. [13:13] JollyGiant: if its not why do i see the error on deps? [13:14] JollyGiant: i do understand [13:14] gnomefreak: sudo apt-get install totem-xine [13:14] You'll see the same message [13:14] gnomefreak: there has been no information provided at all on what it might be. [13:14] and you are *wrong*, scrollkeeper is not required. [13:14] totem-xine is already the newest version. [13:15] Oh right, they changed the way that works [13:15] now, i will warn you one last time: Please do *not* spread wrong answers, and crack, in this channel. [13:15] and if it was a problem with that i would see it [13:15] Used to be just like this situation, now they install two binaries and use update-alternatives to choose which one gets the totem symlink [13:16] Replaces: scrollkeeper [13:16] Provides: scrollkeeper [13:16] that shouldnt be contradictory [13:16] ? [13:17] gnomefreak: Read up on what those do. [13:17] its not possible to do that with anything [13:17] It is, actually [13:17] There is actually this goofy tool that will make dummy packages that use Provides to pretend to be some other package so you can keep metapackages like ubuntu-desktop installed. [13:17] JollyGiant: how can it replace and provide ther would be a conflict no? [13:18] JollyGiant: but rarian is not a meta package per say since all it is is for docs. it has depends most meta packages dont [13:19] gnomefreak: Again, Replaces is so it can replace the files from scrollkeeper (/usr/bin/scrollkeeper-update, etc) without dpkg complaining about two packages owning the same file and Provides is for dependency resolution [13:19] well ubuntu-desktop changed [13:20] To make sure rarian-compat was chosen over scrollkeeper [13:20] JollyGiant: right but the packages still depend on a package that isnt installed [13:20] gnomefreak: have you not looked into provides? [13:21] Since they both fulfill the dependency needs for 'scrollkeeper' and the scrollkeeper package was already installed apt would prefer it. With ubuntu-desktop explicitly depending on rarian-compat it'll get a higher score and be installed. [13:21] Hobbsee: it doesnt install it it removes it [13:21] gnomefreak: the package now depends on a package that *is* installed - it's rarian-compat. [13:21] gnomefreak: Many packages depend on things that aren't actually installed. [13:21] now please, do some research on how apt works, before you open your mouth further. [13:21] * JollyGiant tries to find a java example [13:21] ho that would be recommends since i have never seen that on a stable release [13:22] gnomefreak: no, it would not. [13:22] s/ho/no [13:22] you cant depend on a package that cant be installed due to removing the package you want [13:22] All JREs have a Provides for something like 'java-jre' or something so packages that work with all of them can depend on that and get whatever one the user is actually using [13:22] hence dep errors [13:22] gnomefreak: you can, if you're using provides. [13:22] please actually do some *research* [13:22] JollyGiant: that is a meta package [13:23] java-runtime [13:23] its not a metapackage, it's a virtual package [13:23] All the JREs have a Provides: java-runtime and a java-based app that works with all of them can just depend on java-runtime and get one of them. [13:23] Hobbsee: it would be nice if someone could prove that this error is only on my system if not end user shouldnt see it [13:24] gnomefreak: There is no error on your system. [13:24] Repeat: There is NO error on your system. [13:24] gnomefreak: end users will be using the upgrade manager. they will not see the dialog. it is also not an error. [13:24] In your paste you left out the "but removing anyway as you request" [13:24] JollyGiant: dep issue is an error but dpkg over rides it [13:24] gnomefreak: This is common. [13:24] Repeat: This is common. [13:24] * Hobbsee notes this is like talking to a brick wall. [13:24] There is usually at least one situation like this every release. [13:25] JollyGiant: not on stable systems its not on a/beta it is [13:25] gnomefreak: incorrect. [13:25] There is at least one transition like this _every_ release. [13:25] Hobbsee: this happens on a stable release? [13:25] gnomefreak: by your logic, the kernel never ever upgrades. [13:25] If it was a problem you probably wouldn't be using Ubuntu right now. [13:25] it happens on a dist-upgrade. [13:25] from a stable release, to another stable release. [13:25] i have never seen it on stable release [13:25] No one does transitions in an SRU [13:26] But during a dist-upgrade? Sure. [13:26] not to another stable no but to alpha nd beta yes [13:26] Well, a transition in an SRU would require running 'dist-upgrade' but you get what I mean. :P [13:26] i do [13:26] gnomefreak: so, alphas and betas get kernel upgrades, but from stable-to-stable, you keep the same kernel? [13:26] gnomefreak: You have no clue what you are talking about. Please go read the fine manual before discussing this anymore. [13:26] gnomefreak: you are on crack. please stop it. [13:27] else i will boot you out. [13:27] users are not permitted to give out wrong information. neither are ops. [13:27] Hobbsee: no you dont but i have never seen an error from dapper to hardy would be latest dist-upgrade [13:27] I am sick of trying to be nice when you are rejecting everything we say. [13:27] Hobbsee and I should know all about this stuff yet you do not believe us. [13:27] Hobbsee: so end user should see this? [13:28] gnomefreak: I've already answered that question twice now. [13:28] go and read. [13:28] Hobbsee: you said they do not that they should [13:28] gnomefreak: write in valid english [13:28] if you want people to understand you [13:29] Hobbsee: you said end users do see it you didnt sy they should/shouldnt [13:29] gnomefreak: If a user runs dist-upgrade manually they might see this if they can read fast enough to see it in all the other scary looking text. [13:29] [22:24] gnomefreak: end users will be using the upgrade manager. they will not see the dialog. it is also not an error. [13:29] If a user uses update-manager or doesn't pay attention to the dist-upgrade running they won't see this. [13:29] If they do see it it doesn't matter since it isn't even an error. [13:30] [22:09] People using update-manager won't see or care, it'll just work [13:30] * Hobbsee is sure there were other references too. [13:30] We have throughly explained how this works and unless you have technical proof that we are wrong there is nothing more to say. [13:30] i think you are missing the point. not every user will ignor or miss or not care. you know as well as i do that endusers complain about just about anything [13:31] So what? Let them complain about a non-issue. We'll just close the bugs as Invalid. [13:32] <|dupondje|> audacious is seriously bugged in Intrepid === |dupondje| is now known as dupondje [13:32] we coudl do that that is fine dont care either way im just pointing out that user shoudnt see it IMHO [13:32] gnomefreak: Users don't see it, do they? [13:32] wgrant: this has been discussed repeatedly already. [13:32] Hobbsee: That is what I thought. [13:33] * Hobbsee hopes gnomefreak is going to go away and actually learn, so as not to stick his foot in his mouth repeateldy, again. [13:33] wgrant: i am so yes they would see it [13:33] gnomefreak: Users don't see the terminal unless they click the scary button which says 'show terminal output' or similar. [13:33] gnomefreak: By definition you are not a regular user. [13:33] You are here, you are using intrepid. [13:33] gnomefreak: you are running a development release now, and this is where you've seen it. you yourself said that you hadn't seen it when doing a stable-to-stable upgrade. [13:33] win 22 [13:33] wgrant: with updaate-manager yes but not everyone uses it [13:33] Damn. [13:34] where clearly, it happened, but you didn't notice. [13:34] gnomefreak: If one is a scarable user, one will use it. [13:34] Hobbsee: right because they fixed it so it isnt shown [13:34] No we didn't. [13:34] no, they didn't. [13:34] Who is 'they'? 'They' is us. [13:34] they is all users [13:34] now, for the very, veyr last time, please be quiet, learn something useful, and stop giving out incorrect information! [13:34] or all devs ot the dev [13:34] Users fixed it? [13:35] JollyGiant: no i meant devs [13:35] gnomefreak: We are devs. We didn't fix it. You didn't see it because it's not an issue. [13:35] mvo to be the one [13:35] gnomefreak: you're speaking to two fo them now. Has it taken you this long to realise? [13:36] Hobbsee: also speaking as one [13:36] gnomefreak: You're a packager? [13:36] yes [13:36] * JollyGiant sobs in a corner [13:36] what have you managed to get into the archive, so far? [13:36] I am tempted to revoke your dev license. [13:36] wgrant: prepare to forever-veto any motu application. [13:37] Hobbsee: mostly mozilla apps but im mainly a sunbird maintainer but i do most any mozilla apps [13:37] gnomefreak: Anyway, there is *no problem*. [13:37] ah yes, there is mozilla crack. at least you can't upload unassisted. [13:37] the first 6 or so was under wrong thing it was undre a team that wasnt a tam [13:38] ompaul: no i cant never tried or cared to be a motu [13:38] opps [13:38]