[00:15] something in pm perhaps [00:31] we really ought to write a getdeb factoid, dont you think jpds? [01:10] jussi01: i'm sure that would go down well... [01:21] ubot3 is currently uploading to a remote host that should be functional. of course, it's only uploading at my current crap speed, but it will be back up within a couple hours, i hope. [03:37] excellent. [03:37] only took 3 hours to upload 100mb [03:42] heh [05:18] Ubuntwo: can we help you? [05:37] how many loco channels can you spot it in? [05:39] Spot what? [05:39] oh, 3 [08:12] ah, lovely. that biteme person from yesterday is back [08:13] Hobbsee: Nothing yet [08:13] Just... got my finger on the trigger [08:13] :) [08:15] it's holycow, he was mentioning seeing ubuntu used somewhere, told him to take it to -offtopic, he said "dont remember asking for your permission" and then ignores me right before I get the chance to tell him to keep it on topic, so... I guess I don't need to warn anymore :) [08:15] him again? sigh [08:16] holycow is the one who used to be s/biteme/$something_much_ruder/ [08:16] I know he was forwarded here yesterday... I think it was for k-kde4 [08:16] his username is still biteme [08:16] which is the only reason I recognize him [08:17] Hah. He's actually still in this channel. [08:18] he is, yes [08:18] that'd be the forward from -kde4 [09:15] * Myrtti yawns [09:16] damn even over internet someone yawns i yawn [09:19] * gnomefreak really needs to find system beep setting [09:21] um.... [09:21] Thinking the same, Flannel? [09:22] I bet you are [09:22] re: what? [09:22] Holycow and others... [09:22] Well, holycow... sure, but not what the umm was for. [09:22] Oh. [09:23] My fail. [09:24] ! [09:25] Myrtti failed! surely thats one of the signs on the apocalypse [09:25] Someone can dist-upgrade and it wants to install new packages, but a regular upgrade doesn't want to hold something back... [09:25] it makes ... no sense. [09:27] Here is a ... Wookie. [09:28] It lives in Kashyyk, flys with a spaceship... [09:29] Flannel: depends what you mean by dist-upgrade [09:29] gnomefreak: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade [09:29] Is a friend with ewoks... [09:29] gnomefreak: http://pastebin.com/m73f0f2b and http://pastebin.com/m30cce33c [09:29] Flannel: from like 8.04>8.10? [09:29] It MAKES NO SENSE! [09:30] dist-upgrade should only install new packages if the deps were changed on a package [09:30] gnomefreak: no... regular updates. [09:30] gnomefreak: right. [09:30] Sorry. Star Wars fandom clashed with South Park. [09:30] But, that also means regular upgrade should hold a package back [09:31] gnomefreak: Only thing I can think of is that its now installing (during dist-upgrade) recommends/suggests/whatever by default, or something. [09:32] Flannel: in 8.10 it does [09:32] gnomefreak: Right, but this isn't in intrepid [09:32] apt installs suggestions by default [09:33] Flannel: what version of apt do you have? [09:33] gnomefreak: this isn't me. [09:33] Flannel: it could have been pushed to 8.04 through updates or proposed [09:34] !info apt hardy [09:34] apt (source: apt): Advanced front-end for dpkg. In component main, is important. Version 0.7.9ubuntu17 (hardy), package size 1610 kB, installed size 5200 kB [09:34] yep it ha been [09:35] /s/ha/has [09:35] So, Is there an easy way to turn that off? [09:36] Flannel: no [09:36] gnomefreak: So... All hardy users are now using sun java then, once they update? [09:36] Flannel: depends on what repo its in [09:36] its in multiverse, which is enabled by default [09:37] * Flannel is amazed at how stupid this distro can be. [09:37] Flannel: we have used sun-java for a while [09:37] gnomefreak: not by default [09:37] no you have to install it or install the freeversion from repos [09:37] gnomefreak: right... now you're getting it by default [09:37] dist-upgrade installs sun-jav [09:37] a [09:38] its icetea but it installs java6+extra [09:38] Flannel: than he had that package to start wiht [09:38] with [09:38] gnomefreak: Take a look at the first of those two pastes. [09:38] gnomefreak: no, he doesnt, "new packages" [09:38] also: http://pastebin.com/m7104918d [09:39] gnomefreak: No, that was my first inkling as well, which is why he's pasted all these things for me. [09:40] Flannel: ubuntu-restriced-extras [09:40] It depends on it? [09:40] Flannel: http://pastebin.com/m2a4443ee [09:40] Flannel: yes [09:41] gnomefreak: then how is it installed, without java installed? [09:41] gnomefreak: and how is it upgraded in the latter, and not held back? [09:41] Flannel: he might have had it installed and the deps could have changed [09:41] Flannel: what are you expecting to be held back? [09:41] -restricted-extras [09:41] because its depends aren't satisfied [09:41] Flannel: why would it be? [09:42] because its an upgrade [09:42] so, no new packages. [09:42] Flannel: could have been set that way in apt [09:42] its been done before [09:42] Set what way? [09:43] Flannel: if the package was backported or updated to 8.10 [09:43] 8.10's version [09:43] right... but installing that would install sun-java6- [09:43] !info ubuntu-restricted-extras [09:43] ubuntu-restricted-extras (source: ubuntu-restricted-extras): Commonly used restricted packages. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 15.2 (hardy), package size 3 kB, installed size 32 kB [09:44] Flannel: not if it was set that dist* only installs it. sort of like kernels can be upgraded only by dist* [09:44] gnomefreak: that has to do with bringing in new packages. [09:45] installing it should bring in all the depends... or else we've got a major issue with apt [09:45] Flannel: depens on packages are not always used in upgrade [09:45] Flannel: no it shouldnt. [09:45] Flannel: upgrading a kernel has to be used as dist* [09:46] gnomefreak: so... you're saying installing something won't bring in its depends? [09:46] Flannel: im saying that mvo could have set it to install new packages using dist not upgrade [09:46] That sentence doesn't make any sense. [09:47] or at least, to me. [09:47] Flannel: its rare that upgrade installs new packages if it does at all [09:47] No, I realise that it wont [09:47] upgrade shouldn't ever. [09:47] Flannel: and its not [09:47] but then it should also hold back a package that requires a new package to be installed [09:47] hold back a new version, that is. [09:47] but it's not. It's installing the new version without complaining [09:47] Flannel: not really, mvo would have to set it to be seen [09:48] Eh? [09:48] So, you're telling me it's possible to have a package installed that doesn't have all its deps satisifed? [09:49] Flannel: apt doesnt always show you everything. hence the issues we get (trying to think of an example atm) [09:49] ah yes normally upgrade doesnt hold packages back since they are NEW [09:49] What are new? [09:49] NEW doesnt get held back if its not installed [09:50] as in, new packages just added to the repo? [09:50] sun-java6-plugin would be NEW [09:50] new in what sense? [09:50] Flannel: NEW as in sun-java6-plugin is new since it wasnt installed in first place [09:50] * elkbuntu holds Myrtti's hand [09:51] gnomefreak: Ok, now you're contradicting yourself. [09:51] Flannel: mvo could have set it to only use dist to install it but i would have to check with him [09:51] f;no im not [09:51] Flannel: no im not [09:51] upgrade won't install new packages. dist-upgrade will. Correct? [09:51] Flannel: yes alot of times [09:52] example have you ever upgraded from 6.06>6.10? [09:52] gnomefreak: now, how does u-r-e get upgraded, with an "upgrade" without satisfying its depends? [09:52] isnt there #ubuntu-bugs or something for bugs talk? :Þ [09:52] gnomefreak: no, but I'll be migrating to dapper to hardy soon enough. [09:52] er, from dapper [09:52] Flannel: ok have you ever upgraded versions of ubuntu before [09:52] I have. [09:53] Breezy to dapper. [09:53] Flannel: when you use dist-* it installs new packages right? [09:53] I know that. [09:53] Flannel: upgrade doesnt [09:53] gnomefreak: I *know* [09:53] sigh. [09:53] you're not udnerstanding a word I'm saying. [09:54] guys, elsewhere please [09:54] Flannel: what is it you dont get? the not showing held back packages? [09:54] gnomefreak: name a channel [09:54] #ubuntu-bugs :Þ [09:54] Flannel: ubuntu-offtopic? [09:54] elkbuntu: its not a bug [09:54] it's certainly not an op issue [09:54] elkbuntu: agreed [09:55] and we have a freak or three in -ot waiting to cause trouble [10:07] php6th is walking the line in #ubuntu [10:14] he really likes "pansy" [10:15] also, mc44 says the crazy dude in -ops is mr farmer [10:16] -offtopic you mean? [10:16] Patch? [10:16] or ZAX? [10:16] Ryan? [10:16] ordos [10:16] O? [10:16] Myrtti, who is zax again? [10:17] Thats correct. Ordos is. [10:17] Os ip is familiar. [10:17] So. [10:18] His IP is identical [10:18] Elk asustek [10:18] Myrtti, yes, but wasnt it part of a larger group of morons? [10:18] im probably confusing the moron families at the moment [10:18] Hold on... [10:19] ASus is the one who asks prying questions that I talked to. right? [10:19] * Flannel wishes people would stop switching nicks so often. [10:21] Flannel, did we not ban mr farmer? [10:22] Zax and Asus are the same, and they are the previously advertised. [10:22] elkbuntu: I believe we have. Let me make sure theyre current. [10:22] if so, ban evasion procedures are to be applied [10:23] before mc44 trolls the troll and we get a vorte [10:23] elkbuntu: You keep banning him by nick [10:23] vortex [10:23] Flannel, i dont ban by nick [10:23] elkbuntu: right, Hobbsee does [10:23] Hobbsee, bad! [10:23] er, Myrtti. [10:23] Flannel, still, he's evading nonetheless [10:23] ban by ip and be done with it [10:23] * Flannel wishes bans vs kicks would be more visible in bt [10:23] i doubt he'll find sympathy [10:23] his IP does change. [10:24] banning his whole subnet is liable for collat. damage [10:24] er. host...y... thingie [10:24] * Flannel is so eloquent tonight. [10:28] sec,i'll evaluate [10:28] actually... [10:28] ompaul removed the IP ban earlier today in his cleaning [10:29] and, jdd (a good guy) is also on hsd1.in.comcast.net [10:29] * elkbuntu kills ompaul [10:29] so, I say try another IP ban, and scold ompaul [10:29] that is at 8:42, so... 18 hours ago [10:29] Flannel: er? [10:29] Myrtti: my time :P [10:29] Flannel: no I mean, er earlies [10:29] earlieR [10:30] 12:23 +Flannel> er, Myrtti. [10:30] actually, you could take out the third and fourth octets of the ip and still match only him [10:30] Myrtti: you have a ban on %AlmightyCthulhu!*@* [10:30] from -offtopic [10:30] from august 11 :P [10:31] ditto second third and fourth [10:31] Flannel: I do? [10:31] Flannel: I don't think so [10:31] Myrtti: bt thinks so [10:31] oh. [10:31] how do... I search for ban number things [10:31] @btlogin [10:32] /who c-68-*.hsd1.in.comcast.net [10:32] I almost feel like upgrading my laptop to Intrepid just to get network manager to understand mobile modems [10:33] Myrtti, nm in ibex is hawt [10:33] elkbuntu: you don tknow who else will try to connect from that hostmask though [10:33] oh, right, that *mute* [10:33] Seeker`, given how his presence is making mc44 react, im willing to take that chance [10:33] he's not banned but muted with his nick [10:33] Myrtti: I'd have to actually click the thing and look for that. [10:33] surely you just want the smallest ban that will catch them effectively [10:34] only two octets gone is cleaner /who c-68-57-*.hsd1.in.comcast.net [10:36] * Flannel ponders a ban forward to here, with a ban on his specific IP here. [10:36] Then we're the only ones who have to deal with him temporarily when his IP changes [10:36] i dont particuarly feel like incuring his wrath that way [10:36] i get enough spam as it is [10:44] unop called the ops in #ubuntu (Uplink , being profane) [10:56] Slart called the ops in #ubuntu (tavi) [11:15] Fujisan sighting at #fn [11:19] that would be freenode ops [11:20] staff even [11:21] oooh, that reminds me I need to assimilate a nick [11:23] haha, he's trying to tor [11:24] he can use tor if he asks staff for a tor cloak [11:24] ompaul, you unbanned mr farmer! :( [11:25] if he has fresh veggies im all for unbanning him [11:26] haha. you dont know who he is, do ya [11:26] nope not a clue [11:26] did you say, read mjg59's blog in the past week at all? [11:26] not i [11:26] do you have a link [11:27] http://mjg59.livejournal.com/ [11:27] was he by IP only? [11:27] thanks [11:27] and were [11:27] where [11:27] ot or [11:27] gnomefreak, please [11:27] Is there a way to make redirs in Ubuntu blog? [11:27] no [11:27] that idiot [11:27] now I know [11:27] s/blog/wiki/ [11:27] how the hell did I do that [11:27] I did not do that intentionally [11:27] * ompaul grumbles and points in the general direction of a debian box that is getting my attention [11:27] ompaul: and pushing enter for you too, it seems :) [11:27] mail1:/etc# uptime -- 11:27:30 up 6 min, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.07, 0.05 [11:28] now you may understand why this box gets attention [11:28] jussi01: "Don't use getdeb" -- or talk to the -motu guys about it. [11:28] gateway / firewall / postfix proxy and stuff [11:28] ompaul, because it's easy to assume comcast addresses are as dynamic as underwear [11:28] holy crap [11:29] gnomefreak, yeah. he's... sick. [11:30] he can be stopped fairly easy IMHO [11:30] elkbuntu, ack [11:30] elkbuntu, have they been reinstated? [11:30] calling comcast? i've no doubts matthew's already done that [11:30] as in the bans [11:31] ompaul, not yet. he's still in -ot [11:31] for about 10 seconds [11:31] ordos be the nick [11:31] this is ompaul: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/08/15/funny-pictures-i-haz-a-ponder/ [11:32] call m e cruel [11:32] * Flannel wonders if ompaul is an actor in a B movie. [11:33] http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-cat-has-found-a-three-letter-word-for-happiness.jpg is Myrtti [11:33] Flannel, no, more like a d movie [11:33] Myrtti, hehe [11:33] Flannel, ompaul cant keep a straight face for half a second unless he's genuinely mad [11:33] elkbuntu, more hehe [11:35] elkbuntu, you want to see the most evil ban reason every? [11:35] watch ot [11:36] nice touch [11:36] elkbuntu: I'm trying to figure out what m*res is. [11:36] same [11:37] Almost could be militaries [11:43] is today a bank holiday in england or any surronding countries? [11:43] Its a sunday! [11:43] gnomefreak, today is sunday [11:43] oh damn [11:43] so yes [11:43] by default! [11:43] ;-) [11:43] * gnomefreak slaps self [11:43] i thought it was monday [11:44] gnomefreak, last monday in August in UK first one in .ie [11:44] well this means i get the day off ;) [11:44] gnomefreak: indeed. [11:44] gnomefreak: its a pity you're already at work though. [11:45] im here building extensions so i guess when this oneis built i can enjoy the cloudy, rainy day [11:48] hm. [11:48] http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/why_finland_is_different.html [12:43] elkbuntu: i don't ban by nick either. [12:43] elkbuntu: i banned by hostmask. [12:43] Flannel: please don't tell lies :) [12:45] * Hobbsee only got the guy in #ubuntu and -bugs anyway [12:45] * gnomefreak really hates typing one handed (hunt and peck) takes too long [12:46] * Hobbsee eyes -offtopic [12:47] * Hobbsee is fairly sure that impersonating people is against the guidelines. [12:47] methinks it could equally apply to things. [12:49] who is impersonating who? [12:49] trolls impersonating users? [12:49] im guessing "ubuntu" is impersonating someone [12:50] atleast that is what i thought Hobbsee meant [12:50] gnomefreak: yeah. [12:50] * gnomefreak wondering why everyone is so willing to give out thier ip addresses [12:50] gnomefreak: well, mine's pretty obvious. *shrug* [12:52] Things ok? [12:53] ompaul: elkbuntu: was baron/cthulhu/ML-signer-uper rebanned? [12:53] PriceChild: hope so. although he's mighty abusive, after being banned. [12:53] other than I still want to lart { ZAXSES, ASUS-tek, MSI } so hard he flies to moon? [12:53] Myrtti: is he around atm? [12:54] I never seem to be around the same time. [12:54] PriceChild: He came on as Onkar, or something. [12:54] jpds: thanks [12:54] whois . Ordos [n=Vladimir@c-68-57-223-4.hsd1.in.comcast.net] [network] [12:54] PriceChild, I did [12:54] ompaul: cool [12:55] PriceChild, first a ban then [12:55] * Ordos (n=Vladimir@c-68-57-223-4.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has left #ubuntu-offtopic (requested by ompaul: "07-08-2008 03:25:56 -!- AlmightyCthulhu!n=Almighty@c-68-57-223-4.hsd1.in.comcast.net has joined #ubuntu-kernel") [12:55] subtle like a brick [12:55] I have to run off for lunch. [12:55] ahem. [12:55] [21:55] [Whois] Ordos is an operator on channels: #fuckubuntu [12:55] Don't join. [12:56] kline him please [12:56] * PriceChild sighs [12:56] * Hobbsee waits for the next barrage of abuse. [12:56] own the channel divert it to here [12:56] * ompaul just thinks that might help him [12:56] ompaul: it won't. [12:56] just kline the idiot and be done. [12:57] I'm really runnin goff this time, please don't join, I'm sure it'll be ok to deal with it when I return, but any problems just shout in #freenode [13:00] * Hobbsee wonders why s0u][ight is so interested [13:11] ... [13:11] why are people sometimes so DENSE [13:11] again the universe is not bending to my will where people live up to my expectations [13:20] * Hobbsee turns gnomefreak's crackmeter down. [13:24] * Hobbsee sighs at ops giving crackful information out. [13:25] * Myrtti sighs back [13:30] Hmm ordos tried to rickroll me. [13:30] that has to be klineable [13:31] * jpds added his ip to hilights. [13:31] ompaul: rofl [13:31] He was giving me his channel's CoC and informing me I was in violation of it. [13:31] LOOOLLLL [13:32] PriceChild, great [13:32] PriceChild: you were surprised, based on what he said to me yesterday (assuming you read it)? [13:32] PriceChild, does he realise how beyond the edge beyond the ledge he is yet [13:32] * ompaul doubts it [13:34] yay for a hostname. [22:34] [Whois] dupondje is n=dupondje@i.want.teen-sex.net (dupondje) [13:34] nnngghh [13:36] * Myrtti sighs [13:38] note to self: frying pan is hot [13:41] man, i hate having to boot ops who don't listen. [13:43] Hobbsee: wth, so i cant have an opinon? [13:43] gnomefreak: you can only have an opinion if you are NOT ON CRACK. [13:43] If you are demonstrably wrong, and don't listen, then NO, YOU MAY NOT CONTINUE. [13:43] what part of this do you fail to understand? [13:43] * Myrtti runs and hides [13:44] Hobbsee: it doesnt matter if i have opinon just as you have your own [13:44] gnomefreak: yes, but unfortunately for you, mine and amaranth's are right (and we've also made packages that do this before), and yours are not. [13:45] if you want to broadcast your incorrect opinions, you may do so - to a brick wall. [13:45] Hobbsee: its still an opinon [13:45] you are not permitted to damage the ubuntu name by spreading your incorrect opinions, in ubuntu channels, and preferably not outside of it. [13:45] understood? [13:45] Am I allowed to profess the virtues of Ultamatix in #ubuntu? [13:45] What's going on here? [13:45] no [13:46] PriceChild: Some general unpleasantness, I guess. [13:46] that would fall under !worksforme [13:46] where? [13:46] PriceChild: gnomefreak's not listening to two developers telling him that he's wrong, and keeps proclaiming that he's right regardless, with proof to the contrary. [13:46] PriceChild: See: #ubuntu+1 [13:46] and with sufficient explanation, yet he keeps coming up with the same things over and over. [13:47] last i knew, ops have to follow the conventions of the channel, like users, in areas such as giving correct information. [13:47] maybe i missed the proof, i only saw you and amarth tell me it happens [13:47] i told you. firefox. kernels. [13:47] if you'd stopped being so eager to tell us your opinion again, and actually read, you'd have known that. [13:48] firefox hasnt had that in a long time [13:48] and yes i can prove that sine im running prebuilt ff along with 3.0.1 4.0 [13:48] 3.1 as well [13:48] sorry, mozilla-firefox. [13:48] its not a package [13:48] There are numerous examples. [13:48] it was. [13:49] Hobbsee: remove the ban and stand down please. [13:49] it was yes now its a virtual package [13:49] PriceChild: why? [13:49] Hobbsee: arguing is fine, banning because of it is not. [13:49] PriceChild: because he's an op? [13:49] Hobbsee: if you're directly involved in this, its not good for you to start using access. If you think it is needed, get a 3rd party to mediate. [13:50] Hobbsee: In an ideal world, even if he's not an op. [13:50] * Hobbsee wonders why there are bans from here, then. [13:50] those people argue, and you boot them. [13:50] why is this any different? [13:50] I've no problem with you continuing discussion if you both think it worth it. Doesn't have to be in +1, but I do not like you using access to finish this argument. [13:51] I feel that both sides need to cool down and rethink things a bit. [13:51] PriceChild: i used it as a last resort. I gave many warnigns. [13:51] The ban would have worked had it not just come into here :( [13:51] And ample warning was given. [13:51] Hobbsee: warnings should not be needed. [13:51] Hobbsee, you know the solution to that ... /msg with your response in the argument ... that takes the argument out of the channel and into Private [13:52] PriceChild: because people shouldn't bitch when they're wrong, yes. [13:52] however, they do. [13:52] #fuckubuntu has been unregistered. [13:52] Hobbsee, i dont care who is right and who is wrong, it's not an ops issue and should not be discussed in the ops channel [13:52] PriceChild, excellent. who did that one? [13:53]