[01:06]  * Cimi is back (gone 06:39:38)
[01:06]  * Cimi is away: Away
[02:22]  * DarkWave43302 is not here at present: Gone away for now.
[02:22]  * DarkWave43302_AF has returned.
[02:23]  * DarkWave43302 is not here at present: Gone away for now.
[07:26] <BasicXP> Hi, guys. I have got such an idea: I want to design some ads on Ubuntu and put it in Internet. Are there any project with same goal?
[07:26] <BasicXP> And sorry for my bad English.
[07:28] <BasicXP> People??? Everybody there???
[07:37] <BasicXP> People??? Anybody there!? D'oh! :)
[08:55] <zniavre> http://img28.picoodle.com/data/img28/3/8/18/f_radiusmenum_50466df.jpg
[10:06] <thorwil> nand: bonjour Nicolas!
[10:07] <nand> thorwil: Guten tag!
[10:07] <nand> how's packaging working?
[10:08] <thorwil> nand: not even started. allthough i read a bit about it
[10:08] <thorwil> both my wallpapers and my scrollbar demo need more work
[10:09] <nand> your scrollbar?
[10:10] <nand> I remember you talked about it earlier...
[10:10] <thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/popup-scrollbar-concept-demo/
[10:10] <thorwil> https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/dynamic_scrollbar
[10:11] <nand> ah yeah, remember
[10:12] <nand> looks cool, but I don't know if people would get accustomed to it
[10:12] <nand> maybe the Concept distro is a good place to test it!
[10:12] <nand> (http://www.netsplit.com/2008/08/18/concept-distro/)
[10:13] <nand> Interesting idea, I think
[10:14] <thorwil> right
[10:14] <thorwil> of course all the people who could pull it off are already busy :)
[10:15] <nand> alas, too much ideas and not enough people :(
[10:15] <nand> are you planning to do a full theme?
[10:16] <thorwil> not directly
[10:16] <thorwil> i have the beginnings of some guidelines in my head
[10:17] <thorwil> a collection of concepts and the widgets that are commonly used for them
[10:17] <thorwil> to both think of alternative widgets and what the design of given widgets should get across
[10:19] <thorwil> the 2nd aspect should be useful as a measure for themes and to get people pull in the same direction
[10:20] <nand> by alternate widgets, you mean common widgets, but with an alternate behavior like your scrollbar?
[10:20] <thorwil> in part
[10:21] <thorwil> as an example, if you directly jump to tabs, you have a rather well defined concept
[10:21] <thorwil> but if you take it from a more abstract pov, as a means of making one of several areas visible at a time
[10:22] <thorwil> this can lead to other ideas
[10:22] <nand> don't forget that the UIs come from at least two UI toolkit (but the total number should be around 5 to 10), so if we want to stay consistent, that means a good lot of work!
[10:22] <thorwil> can, doesn't have to :)
[10:22] <nand> s/two UI toolkits/two big UI toolkits/
[10:22] <thorwil> surpassing apple is no walk in the park :)
[10:23] <nand> eheh, true enough :)
[10:23] <thorwil> i don't even expect many new concepts to come up
[10:24] <thorwil> the abstraction can also help to see larger families, which is important for consistency
[10:24] <thorwil> i like to think of widgets as the words of a language
[10:25] <thorwil> we want to use the same words for the same things
[10:26] <thorwil> and similar words for similar things and never the same words for different things
[10:27] <thorwil> and choose the most exact and elegant words, to not sound like some ghetto kids ^^
[10:27] <nand> that's pretty abstract! How do you see that in action?
[10:28] <thorwil> nand: well, it's work that needs doing :)
[10:29] <nand> If you're beginning to have, and implement some new interesting concepts, could be interesting to fire up a live CD (for easy testing) to bring more people in, and start ... a brainstorming session :)
[10:41] <thorwil> arg. is there a way to wrap a long if ... and ... and statement in python?
[10:47] <nand> no idea!
[10:48] <thorwil> luckily i can restructure that mess :)
[10:53] <nand> some people say the block delimitation by indentation is a bad thing. IMO, as long as you got a good text editor, that's not a problem :)
[10:56] <thorwil> i mostly like it. i found it to be the most readable language and i would carefully indent, anyway
[14:19] <pwnguin> so i have a new job as a lab assistant at a community college
[14:20] <pwnguin> overheard from a lecturer: "all computer and web graphics are 75dpi"
[14:27]  * thorwil giggles
[14:31] <elkbuntu> ha
[14:37] <pwnguin> and then he tried to call cmyk addititive and rgb subtractive
[14:57] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, that joke went right over my head
[14:59] <nand> if my old color knowledge is good, it's the opposite...
[15:08] <pwnguin> indeed
[15:08] <pwnguin> these aren't exactly "jokes"
[15:08] <pwnguin> they're just sad =(
[15:20] <thorwil> cody-somerville: macs have been said to comply to 76 dpi (well, 70+something, at least). for PCs and I guess also modern macs, 92 tends to be closer to the truth
[15:20] <thorwil> cody-somerville: but actually, you just get a pixel by pixel view
[15:20] <thorwil> cody-somerville: where the true dpi varies, depending on display
[15:21] <thorwil> for web graphics, dpi is pretty much useless
[15:22] <thorwil> you still see these numbers in introductory material and people keep parotting them
[15:39] <pwnguin> its painful
[15:40] <pwnguin> but theres a huge difference between a webpage layout assuming 72 dpi and one assuming 100
[23:56] <DanaG> zwhoa: http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/08/08/18/
[23:57] <DanaG> Reeally nie photo.