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[00:51]  * pwnguin gets stabby
[01:46] <LaserJock> bryce: around?
[01:48] <bryce> yep
[01:49] <LaserJock> bryce: I was looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt and noticed inkscape
[01:50] <bryce> ah, looks like several of its extension dependencies are listed there
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> Things NOT to do when upgrading someone's distribution:
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ sudo rm `which f-spot`
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> [sudo] password for bluefox:
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> ........ change the default behavior from "Ask a question when a camera is plugged in" to "Open a program and rabidly start scanning files on removable media with a cancel button that doesn't actually stop the process"
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> whose hard drive do I need to nuke for that change >:|
[06:03] <dholbach> good morning
[07:30] <warp10> Hi all
[08:42] <hwilde> Alpha-4 = :)
[10:29] <tseliot> mvo: is there a way to retrieve the path to a deb package in the ubuntu pool with python-apt? For example x11-common is in x/xorg/
[10:30] <mvo> tseliot: yes, give me a sec, I check it out for you, its a bit complicated iirc
[10:30] <tseliot> mvo: thanks
[10:36] <mvo> tseliot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/38750
[10:37] <tseliot> mvo: great! Thanks a lot, it's exactly what I need
[10:38] <liw> mvo, apropos your excellent stuff: is there a reason why one might not want to run unattended-upgrades? I've been using it for a week or so now, and it seems to great that I'm worried that I'm missing a big problem somewhere
[10:38] <liw> because whenever something seems too good to be true, there's usually a hidden problem somewhere
[10:39] <ion_> I’ve been attended-upgrades on multiple boxes for ages and never had a problem.
[10:39]  * hwilde does not run unattended out of principle
[10:39] <hwilde> i like to know when i'm breakin my system
[10:39] <liw> I'm running it on a dozen systems now, and it's saving me significant amounts of time to not have to run apt-get manually on each of them several times a week
[10:40] <liw> all stable systems (Debian etch or Ubuntu hardy)
[10:41] <mvo> liw: there is no hidden problem that I'm aware of
[10:41] <mvo> liw: it just works :)
[10:41] <liw> mvo, well, dang, now you're really making me nervous :)
[10:42] <mvo> liw: I think we just never turned it on for everybody out of caution, it would make a bad update auto install on a lot of system
[10:42] <wgrant> How does it handle things like the OpenSSL vulnerability, with lots of debconf promptsZ?
[10:42] <wgrant> -Z
[10:43] <liw> mvo, yeah, it's probably not something that should be enabled by default
[10:44] <mvo> wgrant: it runs with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive and trusts the packages that they do the right thing (the right thing may be to just mail the admin for help via debconf). it also will not upgrade stuff automatically if there are conffile changes
[10:44] <wgrant> mvo: Aha, that does sound optimal.
[10:44] <maswan> For all my work systems, I prefer updates to happen both when I expect them and during working hours. Likely testing the updates on a test system first too, before rolling out everywhere.
[10:45] <maswan> But then that's the other kind of special case.
[10:46] <wgrant> That's the kind of case where you don't want automated upgrades, so wouldn't activate them...
[12:12] <emgent> moin
[12:23] <Syntux> Good day
[12:24] <persia> Syntux: You were asking about a means by which to generate a list of all the source packages that end up shipping stuff on the CD.
[12:24] <Syntux> I'm trying to generate a list of translatable applications and categories them (CD packages | none-CD packages) in order to launch a sponsored translation campaign :-)
[12:25] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/intrepid-alternate-i386.list
[12:26] <ogra> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/intrepid-desktop-i386.manifest for the liveCD
[12:26] <persia> I believe that this can be generated from the germinate output with $(grep -h '^[a-z]' {ship-live,boot,live,desktop,desktop-common,standard,minimal,required}.sources | awk '{ print $1 }' | sort -u)
[12:27] <persia> One ought be able to determine the contents of the {} construction by recursively including dependencies from e.g. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/structure
[12:30] <Syntux> thanks
[12:56] <persia> ogra: Can someone with a touchscreen that didn't work in hardy help give you information for intrepid support?  What precisely do you need?
[12:57] <ogra> persia, well currently i'm inly intrested in evtouch devices
[12:57] <ogra> *only
[14:05] <Riddell> zul: xen-3.3 in main or universe?
[14:05] <zul> universe
[14:05] <Riddell> ok
[14:06] <stefanlsd> Does anyone know what happened to ubuntu-system-service.  my gnome-session was removed and cant install it again.
[14:17] <mvo> stefanlsd: it should be back on the next publisher run
[14:18] <stefanlsd> mvo: kk. thanks. wont restart gdm  :)
[14:19] <seb128> people should really read what apt wants to do before accepting to get things uninstalled
[14:23] <mok0> I need a hint how to define a new monitor in the database
[14:30] <DktrKranz> lamont: thanks for adjusting p-a-s. Are changes immediately adopted by our buildds or should I wait a bit?
[14:31] <Peaker> is sync-to-vblank support broken?  Its supposedly enabled (in two machines, one with nvidia drivers, and one with ATI) and still there's a tear effect
[14:31] <Peaker> also, why is it not on by default?
[14:32] <lamont> DktrKranz: figure somewhere within 24-48 hours
[14:34] <DktrKranz> thanks
[14:34] <Peaker> watching youtube videos in full-screen and compiz effects look pretty horrible on a big screen without vblank sync
[14:35] <ogra> have you filed a bug ?
[14:37] <Peaker> not yet - I will, but I was wondering if this was a known issue
[14:41] <Riddell> zul: xen-3.3 creates libxen3 which was previously in main and made from xen-3.2
[14:41] <Riddell> zul: so this package replaces xen-3.2?
[14:41] <zul> Riddell: yes it does
[14:42] <Riddell> zul: and at the same time, is demoted to universe?
[14:42] <zul> Riddell: the library stays in main it is needed for virt-manager et al, the rest goes in universe
[14:42] <Riddell> ok
[14:42] <Riddell> so the source also needs to be in main
[14:45] <Riddell> zul: lots of W: python-xen-3.3: package-installs-python-pyc usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/xen/xsview/xsviewer.pyc
[14:45] <Riddell> type erros
[14:46] <zul> Riddell: I can fix those up and get another version uploaded
[14:47] <Riddell> zul: well accepted anyway
[14:48] <zul> Riddell: ok Ill fix those up none of the less
[15:18] <Mez> is anyone working on a pidgin update? or we waiting on Debian firsT?
[15:22] <kirkland> slangasek: Hi, not to pester, but what's the status of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PAMConfigFrameworkSpec ?
[15:24] <Mez> kirkland, according to LP - not started yet...
[15:25] <kirkland> Mez: thanks, i've been back and forth with slangasek about it, he said it should be done by last friday...  i'm just checking on that
[15:25] <Mez> kirkland, ah, fair enough then
[15:25] <Mez> he'll know better... :D
[15:28] <persia> Mez: RIght now, waiting for Debian is a dangerous game: Debian is frozen for Lenny release, and when they open, it will include a dump of a fair bit of experimental.
[15:28] <persia> (that said, I don't have an opinion about updating pidgin)
[15:29] <Mez> persia, oh yeah, the freeze...
[15:29] <Mez> unstable can still recieve uploads though
[15:30] <persia> Well, right, but most people won't push anything into sid that won't be going into Lenny because it might cause a transition issue.
[15:32]  * Mez shrugs
[15:32] <Mez> more fool them then
[15:40] <kirkland> does anyone know anything about bootlogd?  it doesn't appear to be used anymore, but looks like there are a few artifacts still hanging around
[15:40] <cathya> 6
[15:41] <ogra> kirkland, there is logd now which isnt ready
[15:42] <ogra> (its part of upstart but far from being usable)
[15:42] <kirkland> ogra: gotcha, thanks
[15:42] <ogra> bootlogd is dead nearly as long as ubuntu exists
[15:43] <ogra> a lot of people would love you if you would fix the situation though :) its a longstanding request
[15:51] <jcastro> asac: have you seen this: http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManager/MobileBroadband/ServiceProviders
[15:51] <asac> jcastro: sure
[15:52] <asac> jcastro: i am working closely with the mdba guy
[15:52] <asac> he already joined the network-manager team ;)
[15:52] <jcastro> asac: ok great!
[15:53] <asac> Riddell: not sure, but i guess knetworkmanager needs to be updated (at least in PPA?)
[15:54] <kirkland> Riddell: hey, question for you... does kdm specifically avoid using the lsb init functions in its init script for a reason?
[15:59] <Riddell> kirkland: not that I know of
[16:00] <Riddell> kirkland: what's it missing?
[16:00] <Riddell> asac: is there a new version of network-manager?
[16:00] <kirkland> Riddell: I'm on the server team, and we're making a concentrated effort to get as many of the core init scripts to support the LSB "status" action, which you can run to determine whether or not a given service is running
[16:01] <kirkland> Riddell: I have a patch for KDM, but I notice that it does not source /lib/lsb/init-functions, and doesn't depend on lsb-base
[16:01] <kirkland> Riddell: that's somewhat odd...  i haven't seen many init scripts that don't use the lsb functions for logging, etc.
[16:02] <Riddell> kirkland: probably just unloved
[16:02] <kirkland> Riddell: okay, it's almost always present, but I'll add it to the control as part of my patch, and source it too
[16:05] <asac> Riddell: yes. same verseion that is in intrepid now
[16:14] <ion_> tkamppeter: This is what the filter actually does to a PS file: http://heh.fi/tmp/im-in-ur-postscript-fixin-ur-drm
[16:16] <tkamppeter> ion_, nice trick.
[16:55] <slangasek> kirkland: a few days delayed; I'm hurrying to get it uploaded today
[16:56] <seb128> hey slangasek
[16:56]  * slangasek waves
[16:56] <kirkland> slangasek: cool, would you mind dropping me a line when you do?
[16:56] <slangasek> kirkland: no problem
[16:57] <kirkland> slangasek: i'll add the ecryptfs depends, and profile as soon as it's in the archive
[16:57] <seb128> slangasek: will you move the sru which are ready to go to hardy-updates or is that something that has to wait for pitti to be back from his holidays?
[16:58] <slangasek> seb128: I will, but PAM is the higher priority
[16:58] <kirkland> slangasek: silly question, but is such a package going to have to go through REVU, Universe, MIR, etc?
[16:58] <slangasek> kirkland: which package?
[16:58] <kirkland> slangasek: pam config
[16:58] <slangasek> it's not a separate package, no
[16:59] <seb128> slangasek: dunno about the pam thing but no hurry, thanks ;-)
[16:59] <kirkland> slangasek: oh, you're adding it to pam itself?
[16:59] <slangasek> kirkland: yes, that's where it belongs :)
[17:00] <BenC> slangasek: Since this came up so quickly, I didn't have time to invite colin or scott...be in about 1 minute, we are discussing possibly moving to 2.6.27 in intrepid, on #ubuntu-kernel (team meeting)
[17:00] <BenC> slangasek: care to join to get outside representation?
[17:00] <BenC> slangasek: I guess scott and colin are in manager meeting
[17:01] <BenC> s/representation/feedback/
[17:34] <kirkland> Riddell: howdy, the kdm/status bug (with patch) is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/259446
[17:35] <Riddell> kirkland: doesn't look too complez
[17:35] <Riddell> complex
[17:36] <kirkland> Riddell: not at all... very minor, but lots of init scripts to patch ;-)
[17:37] <kirkland> Riddell: the other ones we've patched, or trying to patch are https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions#Init%20scripts%20with%20daemon(s)
[17:37] <Riddell> kirkland: need me to upload?
[17:38] <kirkland> Riddell: please \o/
[17:38] <superm1> hi kirkland. i was curious what happened with discussion about that mention of mysql-server a few days ago.  i'm not sure the -server team meeting schedule, so i wasn't sure if you got a chance to talk about it?
[17:38] <kirkland> superm1: whoa.... i'm this moment alt-tabbing away from a console that's pulling the mysql-sources
[17:39] <Riddell> kirkland: should be fine to send to debian too presumably?
[17:39] <kirkland> Riddell: yes, the status_of_proc() function is in the Debian lsb-base 3.2.14 package
[17:39] <kirkland> Riddell: we're pushing as many of these to Debian as we can
[17:39] <kirkland> Riddell: if you're going to handle that for me, that would be marvelous!
[17:39] <Riddell> kirkland: will do
[17:40] <kirkland> zul: jdstrand: hey, got a minute to talk to superm1 and I about mysql-server?
[17:40] <superm1> kirkland, hehe.
[17:41] <jdstrand> kirkland: zul's is afk, but maybe I can help?
[17:41] <kirkland> superm1: i left a message for them in IRC after we talked last week, but it probably got lost in the logs
[17:41] <jdstrand> (I lost my irc backlog due to an ISP 'issue')
[17:41] <kirkland> jdstrand: mysql-server has 'recommends' on mailx
[17:41] <kirkland> jdstrand: that superm1 is trying to track down
[17:42] <superm1> jdstrand, which is pulling in exim4 on intrepid now for all installs of mysql-server
[17:42] <jdstrand> kirkland: as in 'why the Recommends'?
[17:42] <jdstrand> superm1: not surprising, because of installing 'Recommends' by default
[17:43] <kirkland> jdstrand: well, why, for one
[17:43] <superm1> jdstrand, yeah i was attempting to argue the point that a mail server should be a separate task and more of an opt in scenario then opt out
[17:43] <jdstrand> kirkland: I see in the changelog:
[17:43] <jdstrand> mysql-dfsg-5.0 (5.0.18-7) unstable; urgency=low
[17:43] <jdstrand>   * Made mailx in debian-start.inc.sh optional and changed the dependency on it
[17:43] <jdstrand>     on it to a mere recommendation. Closes: #316297
[17:44] <kirkland> jdong: and perhaps something more like postfix|mail-transport-agent
[17:44] <kirkland> jdstrand: based on that changelog, we could probably lower it to a "Suggests"
[17:44] <jdstrand> sounds like mailx should be bumped down to Suggests on Ubuntu...
[17:44] <jdstrand> yea, what kirkland said ;P
[17:44] <jdstrand> yeah even...
[17:45] <kirkland> jdstrand: okay, if i make that change, can you upload it for me?
[17:45] <kirkland> jdstrand: or do you think more discussion is required?
[17:45] <jdstrand> what's ne more line of diff in an already humongous diff in mysql :)
[17:45] <jdstrand> kirkland: no, I'll upload
[17:45] <kirkland> jdstrand: :-P
[17:45] <jdstrand> kirkland: it is clearly a problem and loads of packages are getting dropped to Suggests for just this reason
[17:45] <kirkland> superm1: you mind opening the LP bug while I make a diff?
[17:46] <superm1> kirkland, sure i can take care of that
[17:48] <kirkland> superm1: cool, diff ready, just need an LP #
[17:48] <superm1> kirkland, bug 259477
[17:49] <jdstrand> kirkland, superm1: out of curiosity, I looked at /usr/share/mysql/debian-start.inc.sh. It has an enlightening comment: # Check for presence as a dependency on mailx would require an MTA.
[17:50] <jdstrand> so apparently, the maintainer agrees with us too :)
[17:50] <kirkland> jdstrand: right
[17:50] <kirkland> jdstrand: so it really is just a matter of the promotion of Recommends that brings this in on installations
[17:51] <jdstrand> kirkland: exactly
[17:53] <kirkland> jdstrand: superm1: patch attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/259446
[17:54] <jdstrand> kirkland: umm, is that the correct bug?
[17:54] <kirkland> jdstrand: crap crap crap
[17:55] <kirkland> jdstrand: one second...  (too many FF tabs open)
[17:55] <jdstrand> no biggie :)
[17:56] <kirkland> jdstrand: try https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.0/+bug/259477
[17:56] <kirkland> jdstrand: the filename is wrong, but the changelog entry is right
[17:57] <jdstrand> kirkland: ok
[17:59] <kirkland> jdstrand: okay, i'm actually adding the init script status actions to mysql right now too...
[17:59] <kirkland> jdstrand: would a single patch be best?
[18:00] <jdstrand> kirkland: sure
[18:11] <zul> jdstrand: I can do it
[18:16] <mvo> Ng: I fixed a problem (well, worked around it) with the sandbox upgrader that caused the low network speed. it should be much happier (and faster) now
[18:17] <mvo> (just FYI because you mentioned the low speed the other day)
[18:17] <Ng> mvo: ah cool, I may well give it another go then :)
[18:17] <Ng> not sure if I'll have time tonight though
[18:17] <mvo> no rush, just wanted to let you know :)
[18:19] <LaserJock> mvo: does g-a-i use the system icons for the category menu?
[18:20] <LaserJock> I mean, whatever the user's icon theme is set to
[18:21] <mvo> LaserJock: yes, it should do that
[18:22] <LaserJock> mvo: is there a way to override that?
[18:23] <mvo> LaserJock: yes,you can play around with the icon theme
[18:25] <mvo> LaserJock: a simple         self.icons.prepend_search_path(os.path.join(datadir, "laserjocks-icons"))
[18:25] <mvo>  may already be enough
[18:25] <LaserJock> mvo: ok, if I put icons in the datadir will it override existing user icon themes?
[18:26] <mvo> LaserJock: in Menu.py aoround line 75
[18:26] <ramvi> ﻿How to I add something to the Applications menu through terminal?
[18:26] <mvo> LaserJock: I'm not sure, I think it does not because I use "append search path" there, but to be sure, please test
[18:26] <ramvi> I'm customizing the livecd
[18:26] <joaopinto> ramvi, the channel for support is #ubuntu, not #ubuntu-devel
[18:26] <mvo> LaserJock: I need to run for dinner, sorry, I will be back in 45min
[18:27] <ramvi> joaopinto:  Thought maybe customizing the livecd was development. Sorry
[18:27] <LaserJock> mvo: np, I'll poke around with it
[18:29] <nullack> Ping mvo: Do you have time to discuss bug 250524?
[18:30] <geser> nullack: really bad timing: [19:26:39]          mvo | LaserJock: I need to run for dinner, sorry, I will be back in 45min
[18:31] <nullack> No worries, Ill catch him later
[19:54] <mvo> nullack: hello! about the apt-xapian-index I would love to make it a depends (or at least a recommends) again, but currently CD space is very tight
[19:54] <mvo> nullack: that is why it got demoted from a recommends to a suggests (I'm not very happy about that)
[19:55] <nullack> mvo: Ty, some users are becoming loud about it on the forums, A person posted on the bug to turf some screensavers or something
[19:55] <nullack> mvo: If we cant fit space and better compression cant be had, maybe we should look at removing the panel so users dont get curious about it
[19:56] <mvo> nullack: I can't blame them for complaining, really. I will try to sort that out over the next couple of days, the backup plan is to have a button there if a-x-i is not installed so that synaptic installs it
[19:57] <nullack> mvo: Are you ok with me putting a statement in the bug that investigations are continuing to appease for awhile?
[19:58] <mvo> nullack: yes, and you may mention the backup plan as well :)
[19:58] <nullack> Thankyou
[19:58] <mvo> patches welcome, should not be more than a 1-2h job
[20:03] <slangasek> mvo: how big is apt-xapian-index, precisely?
[20:05] <mvo> slangasek: 31,4k + 530k for python-xapian + 768k for libxapian15
[20:05] <mvo> hm, maybe libxapian15 is already on the CD, so just python-xapian
[20:06] <slangasek> mvo: well, we aren't /currently/ so tight on space that we can't include that
[20:08] <mvo> hm, when I talked to pitti about that before alpha4 he asked me to remove the recommends, I'm more than happy to add it back if the space permits it
[20:08] <slangasek> that was possibly around the time that we were still working on fixing the timezone xml bloat
[20:09] <slangasek> and we still have more trimming to do, in the form of duplicated fonts between ghostscript-fonts and gsfonts
[20:11] <jdstrand> kirkland, zul: so who is doing what on the mysql update?
[20:11] <mvo> slangasek: aha, good. I will promote it back to a recommends then and upload it, thanks a lot!
[20:12] <zul> jdstrand: good question I was waiting for kirkland to do the status stuff
[20:12] <slangasek> mvo: ok - if there's no question in your mind that Recommends is the correct relationship for this package, then please do
[20:12] <jdstrand> zul: I just assume integrate that other bug into the status update, since it's so small
[20:13] <zul> jdstrand: I agree
[20:13] <jdstrand> zul: then we wait...
[20:13] <zul> jdstrand: yep
[20:56] <LaserJock> hmm, devscripts Recommends seem rather heavy
[20:57] <ion_> Heh
[20:59] <LaserJock> went to upgrade my intrepid chroot and it devscripts wanted to bring in 70 new packages including 1 from Universe, X, python-launchpad-bugs, pbuilder, and bzr
[21:03] <LaserJock> ahhh, it's because devscripts now recommends ubuntu-dev-tools
[21:08] <ScottK> Yes.  Feel free to go beat on Laney in #ubuntu-motu.
[21:10] <Laney> I didn't put that recommends in :(
[21:10] <LaserJock> ScottK: you almost made me beat the wrong person ;-)
[21:11] <ScottK> Laney: Did Colin add it then?
[21:12] <LaserJock> ScottK: the changelog entry is from Nathan Handler
[21:12] <jpds> Actually nhandler added it.
[21:12] <ScottK> Right.
[21:12] <ScottK> LaserJock and Laney: Sorry.
[21:12]  * ScottK tries again.
[21:12] <ScottK> Yes.  Feel free to go beat on nhandler in #ubuntu-motu.
[21:13] <azeem> anbody know why the Hurd is mentioned on http://www.canonical.com/aboutus/contributions ?
[21:15] <elmo> azeem: it's an anachronism
[21:15] <elmo> azeem: I've asked our webmaster to fix it
[21:15] <azeem> elmo: LWN picked it up :-/
[21:15] <elmo> azeem: it's not been true since Jeff moved on
[21:16] <azeem> k
[21:16] <elmo> azeem: yeah, I saw :(
[21:16] <azeem> (it's not like Jeff was a major Hurd (upstream) contributor anyway)
[21:16] <azeem> k
[21:17] <elmo> well I'm assuming it was tied to Jeff, I can't think of any other active folks we have or have had in the Hurd space
[21:17] <azeem> Kamion did some Debian GNU/Hurd work on and off
[21:17] <azeem> like fixing SSH IIRC
[21:34] <Otacon22> gnome bluetooth deamon is bugged
[21:35] <Otacon22> i can't send any kind of file from my phone
[21:35] <Otacon22> i'm sure also because others people said me to have the same problem
[21:40] <ma10> how do i build xulrunner development versions from mozillateam's bazaar?
[21:41] <ma10> i mean, is there a script to get the sources from cvs?
[21:50] <stefanlsd> I built an update for Pidgin 2.5.0 if anyone wants to try it. Its in my PPA. http://ppa.launchpad.net/stefanlsd/ubuntu
[21:54] <ma10> i need help debugging a crash xulrunner related.. anyone?
[22:04] <ma10> asac?
[22:07] <jpds> ma10: #ubuntu-mozillateam may be able to help.
[22:07] <LaserJock> ma10: you might want to ask #ubuntu-mozillateam and look on wiki.ubuntu.com
[22:08] <ma10> thanks
[22:57] <NCommander> Riddell, you around?
[22:59] <Riddell> hi NCommander
[23:34] <TheMuso_> ?c