[00:15] <kostmo> ScottK: I've made the description changes to both the control file and manpage, if you are inclined to be an advocate... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3405
[00:15] <ScottK> I may have time to look later.  I'm busy with $WORK at the moment.
[00:15] <kostmo> ok, thank you
[01:31] <bddebian> Heya folks
[01:35] <RAOF> Howdie bddebian
[01:35] <bddebian> Heya RAOF
[01:37] <bddebian> Any of you know if there is a nice and easy way to really figure out DEPENDSON in Makefile.am without digging through all the dependencies by hand?
[01:40] <RAOF> bddebian: Not from Makefile.am, but configure.ac will ideally have a whole bunch of PKG_CHECK_MODULES
[01:41] <RAOF> bddebian: They'll use pkg-config to check for the presence of various stuff, and apt-file can inform you of the package providing the relevant .pc file.
[01:41] <nxvl> kirkland: i replied on revu (update-motd package)
[01:42] <nxvl> kirkland: other than that suggeston i'm quite happy with what i've already reviewed
[01:42] <nxvl> any revu admins around?
[01:42] <bddebian> RAOF: I don't mean external package dependencies.  I mean actual object files within the same package.
[01:45] <RAOF> Oh.  That did sound like a fairly basic question ;).
[01:45] <RAOF> Do you mean minimal dependencies or make-dependencies?
[01:46] <RAOF> It should be possible to extract the latter without too much trouble, but extracting the former will likely require source-greppage.
[01:47] <RAOF> automake will link all the object files from foo_SOURCES together, right?
[02:19] <bddebian> RAOF: Gah, sorry, I didn't realize you were still talking to me
[02:20] <bddebian> Makefile.am just has this endless list of:  DEPENDSON = ../GameScenario.o ../army.o ../GameMap.o ../templelist.o ....
[02:20] <jdong> new azureus crack, away we upload...
[02:20] <jdong> once vmware fusion boots back up
[02:20] <jdong> stupid wrong button
[02:21] <jdong> problem #4 with macs: Too few buttons = buttons are too big = chances of hitting the wrong one increase.
[03:11] <NCommander> persia, its amazing how one can be so dead to the world that connecting to IRC is a burden
[03:11] <nxvl> NCommander: i was looking for you
[03:11] <NCommander> what did I break now?
[03:11] <nxvl> NCommander: i've just been added to the MOTU team, but in REVU i still apear as a normal contributor
[03:11] <nxvl> heh
[03:12] <nxvl> default answer :P
[03:12] <NCommander> Its not an automatic upgrade
[03:12] <NCommander> We need to manually set you in REVU to be a reviewer
[03:13] <NCommander> Altering nxvl to level reviewer
[03:13] <NCommander> Done
[03:13] <nxvl> oh
[03:14] <nxvl> i thought it was automagiuc
[03:14] <nxvl> Thank you!
[03:14] <NCommander> That's one of "it would be nice" things
[03:14] <ScottK> nxvl: It's only automagic after you ask NCommander.
[03:14] <ScottK> Speaking of automagic ...
[03:15] <ScottK> NCommander: How's your relibtoolization skillz?
[03:15] <NCommander> ScottK, you summone RoAkSoAx?
[03:15] <NCommander> Uh
[03:15] <NCommander> Depends on how much pain you want to force on me
[03:15] <NCommander> (I helped fix libtool on OS X when it first came out, take a guess)
[03:16] <ScottK> So your inured to the pain by now then I'll assume.
[03:16] <RoAkSoAx> what who when where?
[03:16] <nxvl> ScottK: :D
[03:16] <NCommander> RoAkSoAx, sorry, you walked into the punchline of a bad pun.
[03:16] <RoAkSoAx> NCommander, haha ok np =)
[03:16] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: i know what ScottK is talking about, better run!
[03:16] <NCommander> ScottK, what do you need fixed
[03:17] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, lol
[03:17] <NCommander> nxvl, your an MOTU, you should be teaching me these things ;-)
[03:17] <nxvl> NCommander: ok, then RUN!
[03:17] <ScottK> NCommander: Would you please have a look at Bug 254681.
[03:17]  * NCommander runs towards the danger
[03:17] <nxvl> heh
[03:17] <nxvl> i knew this bug was about to show up
[03:17]  * nxvl HUGS ScottK 
[03:18] <ScottK> There's a debdiff at the end that is almost right +/- libtool something.
[03:18] <NCommander> Ok
[03:18] <NCommander> If either one of you will sponsor the end result
[03:18] <NCommander> I'll fix it
[03:18] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:18] <nxvl> i'm really interested in the result of this package
[03:18] <nxvl> i gived up last week
[03:19] <NCommander> BTW, after today, I'm going to have somewhat limited Ubuntu machine access until September
[03:19] <nxvl> i needed to step out before i will start hating libtool more that i do now
[03:19] <NCommander> (the laptop getting a Debian kFreeBSD installation)
[03:19] <nxvl> NCommander: kvm
[03:19] <NCommander> I don't think kernel virtual machines support freebsd ;-)
[03:19] <nxvl> emu?
[03:19] <nxvl> qemu
[03:19] <ScottK> NCommander: I'm a Debian Maintainer and I don't run it at all.  I just do stuff in chroots.
[03:20] <NCommander> You can't run a LInux based distro on a freebsd host ;-)
[03:20] <nxvl> i use chroot's + kvm's
[03:20] <ScottK> You're right.  I can't, but I bet you can.
[03:20] <NCommander> You have amazing faith in me
[03:20] <ajmitch> NCommander: september is only a couple of weeks away
[03:20] <NCommander> (I probably could force it to run under Linux emulation)
[03:20] <NCommander> Well
[03:20] <NCommander> I'll probably just bootstrap Ubuntu kfreebsd, and call it Freentu :-P
[03:21]  * NCommander needs a hobby or something
[03:21] <ajmitch> shun the heretic
[03:21] <nxvl> NCommander: ScottK is amazing giving you emotional support and self-confidence
[03:21]  * nxvl HUGS ScottK for that
[03:21] <NCommander> Argh
[03:21] <NCommander> Anyone got a quick link to the .dsc?
[03:21] <ScottK> NCommander: At one point I thought it might be something related to parallel building, so there's one thing that needs to come out of that debdiff before you play with it.
[03:21] <nxvl> grab-merge is cool
[03:21] <nxvl> :D
[03:21] <NCommander> what?
[03:22] <NCommander> What package is that form?
[03:22] <nxvl> NCommander: http://merges.ubuntu.com/
[03:22] <NCommander> Oh
[03:22] <nxvl> NCommander: http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
[03:22] <NCommander> That package grabber
[03:22] <nxvl> yep
[03:22] <nxvl> we love MoM
[03:22] <NCommander> I thought I had that script in my bin
[03:23]  * NCommander looks at the hurd source code on his machine
[03:23] <NCommander> Ok, its downloading
[03:23] <NCommander> Slowly
[03:23] <ajmitch> you are sick, aren't you?
[03:23] <nxvl> i tryed to boot hurd once
[03:23]  * ajmitch quietly hides his checkout of the hurd source
[03:23] <nxvl> tried*
[03:23]  * ajmitch ran it on a computer for awhile
[03:24] <nxvl> i runned quick screaming lout
[03:24]  * ajmitch was able to compile packages, and had a webserver on there
[03:25] <ScottK> NCommander: I added a thing in rules to export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS 'parallel=1' when I was testing a theory.  I forget to take that out before I attached the debdiff.
[03:25] <nxvl> oh damn i thing i'm mixing english with german again
[03:25]  * NCommander has CVS commit access to the hurd repo
[03:25] <NCommander> I think I win
[03:25] <nxvl> NCommander: don't even look at my debdiff, they are horrible
[03:25] <NCommander> nxvl, I thought you were an MOTU ...
[03:25] <NCommander> ;-)
[03:26] <nxvl> NCommander: yes i am, and part of being motu is knowing your limitations and steping out of what you can't do
[03:26] <NCommander> Hrm
[03:26] <nxvl> ScottK: doesn't it?
[03:26] <NCommander> Interesting concept, I should introduce it to Debian
[03:26] <ScottK> nxvl: Absolutely.
[03:27] <nxvl> \o/
[03:27] <ScottK> NCommander: I'm core-dev and I'm looking for help.
[03:27] <nxvl> we are not packaging or code gods
[03:27] <NCommander> I thought ScottK was
[03:27] <nxvl> just normal (well, not so normal) people contributing on what we can
[03:27] <NCommander> Normal is relative
[03:28] <nxvl> NCommander: yep, that's the why of the "(well, not so normal)" part
[03:28] <ScottK> Yeah.  I've met nxvl in person.
[03:28] <ScottK> ;-)
[03:28] <nxvl> heh
[03:28] <NCommander> ScottK, is that a good or bad thing?
[03:28] <ajmitch> ScottK: lucky you
[03:29] <nxvl> ajmitch: where are you based?
[03:29] <nxvl> and btw, i would say he so lucky about that
[03:29] <nxvl> <- evil nerd
[03:29] <ajmitch> nxvl: ends of the earth
[03:29] <ScottK> It was a good thing, but it'd be better if he'd been able to fix courier.
[03:29] <nxvl> ajmitch: asia?
[03:29] <ajmitch> nxvl: New Zealand
[03:29] <ScottK> Further south.
[03:30] <nxvl> heh
[03:30] <nxvl> yes, the end of the earth
[03:30] <NCommander> ScottK, how'd you manage to downgrade config.status/config.guess?
[03:30] <nxvl> actually i want to go to New Zeland some day
[03:30] <nxvl> and Australia
[03:30] <nxvl> NCommander: we made A LOT of tries
[03:30] <ScottK> NCommander: I have no idea.
[03:31] <NCommander> THe patch doesn't apply cleanly to the base tarball
[03:31] <ScottK> I do note that we have the libtool from Experimental in Intrepid, so I choose to blame it.
[03:31]  * ajmitch has been to australia a few times
[03:31] <ScottK> NCommander: It's a diff to the latest Debian revision.
[03:31] <NCommander> Ah
[03:31] <NCommander> ANd now it does :-P
[03:31] <NCommander> So is this a FTBFS error, or something else
[03:32] <ScottK> FTBFS on maildrop.
[03:32] <NCommander> And I should wipe out the parallel=1?
[03:32] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:32] <ScottK> And the comment line above it and the related debian/changelog entry.
[03:32] <NCommander> and who's name going on the changelog?
[03:32] <NCommander> Damn
[03:32] <ScottK> Yours if you fix it.
[03:32] <nxvl> thank god, i can't remember what the error was!
[03:32] <NCommander> That's one long changelog
[03:33] <ScottK> Welcome to Courier.
[03:33] <nxvl> and to bleeding edge development
[03:33] <nxvl> :D
[03:33] <ScottK> Note that the Debina maintainer's package is still standards version 3.6 something.
[03:33] <nxvl> and using older libtool
[03:33] <NCommander> BUilding
[03:33] <NCommander> er
[03:33] <nxvl> really older one
[03:33] <StevenK> And? Standards-Version isn't so important
[03:33] <NCommander> install build-deps
[03:34] <StevenK> Policy hasn't changed markedly from 3.6.x to 3.8
[03:34] <ScottK> StevenK: Agreed, but in this case it's an indication of how long it
[03:34] <ScottK> it's been since he seriously thought about the package.
[03:34] <NCommander> I recently fixed a package that was still 2.x series in its stanards versoins
[03:34] <NCommander> I recently ran the entire Debian archive's GPG signatures
[03:34] <nxvl> holly!
[03:34] <NCommander> and found a few invalid ones
[03:34] <NCommander> (and then promptly spammed the FTP admin with removal requests)
[03:35] <nxvl> why DD's enjoy rebuilding the archive
[03:35] <NCommander> No, not a rebuild
[03:35] <NCommander> I was actually checking every dsc to see if it was a valid signature
[03:35]  * nxvl quivers
[03:35] <NCommander> against the keyring
[03:35] <NCommander> Part of importing the archive using dak
[03:35] <NCommander> Probably the fastest turn around time on a removal request ever
[03:36] <NCommander> (Geoneff went WTF when he was pointed to the packages with invalid signatures)
[03:36] <StevenK> NCommander: I have a bug that was filed as an MIR, and turned into a removal request
[03:36] <NCommander> er, Ganneff
[03:36] <NCommander> rofl
[03:36] <NCommander> I've never seena  removal fly durign a freeze ;-)
[03:37] <NCommander> The running theory is that there used to be a bug in the very old dinstall (before dak) scripts which corrupted the signature
[03:37] <NCommander> or something
[03:37] <NCommander> I've never seen GPG error out with unknown public key algrothmin
[03:37] <nxvl> escuses
[03:37] <NCommander> (and I installed IDEA to make sure it wasn't that)
[03:37] <StevenK> I have. I've tried to convince pitti to remove something, NEW it, and then get it removed again.
[03:37] <NCommander> o_o;
[03:37] <NCommander> how'd that fly?
[03:38] <StevenK> It didn't, but it made him laugh, which was the idea.
[03:38] <nxvl> excuses*
[03:38]  * NCommander has that horror feeling you'd do that to some archive admin to make them question their grip on reality
[03:38] <ScottK> Shoot.  I can quit now.  According to me email, I'm a lucky winner.
[03:38] <ScottK> me/my
[03:38] <NCommander> ScottK, can you patebin the actual FTBFS? (I'm waiting for this to build)
[03:38] <nxvl> ScottK: on what?
[03:39] <NCommander> oh geeze, this configure script recursively calls itself ...
[03:39] <NCommander> *winces*
[03:39] <ScottK> I don't have it still.
[03:39]  * NCommander has never seen a changelog with three different people editing the SAME entry)
[03:39] <ScottK> NCommander: Welcome to team maintenance.
[03:40] <ScottK> It's the Ubuntu way.
[03:40] <nxvl> ep
[03:40] <nxvl> yep
[03:40] <nxvl> i have seen a lot of them
[03:40] <nxvl> i thing the record was 4 people
[03:40] <NCommander> I'm suprised their isn't a lintian warning
[03:40] <nxvl> VCS ftw!
[03:40] <NCommander> W: debian-developers-being-social
[03:40] <ScottK> All done with no fancy VCS either.
[03:40] <ScottK> nxvl: Which one.
[03:40] <nxvl> ScottK: that's the scary part
[03:41] <NCommander> There is bazaar
[03:41] <nxvl> ScottK: don't remember, but i have the image in my head of 4 people in a changelog entry
[03:41] <ScottK> nxvl: Find me a VCS that can handle 20.000 source packages and we'll talk.
[03:41] <nxvl> heh
[03:41] <nxvl> :D
[03:41] <nxvl> git \o/
[03:41] <ScottK> NCommander: Yes, if you want to wait for the heat death of the Universe while you branch it.
[03:41] <NCommander> Oh, you mean the entire repo?
[03:41] <nxvl> (the hardware is a different thing
[03:41] <NCommander> BitKeeper :-P
[03:41] <ScottK> Yeah.
[03:41] <NCommander> Unless you meant a free based one
[03:42] <ScottK> We already use LP, so that's clearly not a criteria.
[03:42] <NCommander> I dunno, git doesn't massive repos well (as in size, any given checkout of Linux is just 50-60MB, but I can't see it scalling all the way up to 200-300GB)
[03:42] <NCommander> ^do
[03:42] <nxvl> ScottK: canonical will open LP this year (well, at least that's what has been told)
[03:43] <ScottK> Fundamentally in Universe, until you can stuff the whole thing in one VCS and get agreement on it, the source package is the one and only canonical source for a package and VCS just isn't interesting.
[03:43] <NCommander> They've been saying that for years
[03:43] <ScottK> nxvl: Yep.  It'll happen when it happens.
[03:43] <ScottK> NCommander: But they never put a timeline on it before.
[03:43]  * NCommander is reminded SourceForge.net was on a timeline to be opened sourced
[03:44] <NCommander> configure. is. still. running.
[03:44] <ScottK> Freeing the source is important, but I don't think it'll do much to change the aspects of the project that I find most problematic.
[03:44] <NCommander> *wince*
[03:44] <NCommander> ScottK, try and find (or write) a greasemonkey script to make LP usable ;-)
[03:44] <ScottK> I have great hopes for \sh and Leonov.
[03:45] <NCommander> \sh works for Canonical?
[03:45] <ScottK> No.
[03:45] <NCommander> what is he working on then?
[03:45] <nxvl> holly crap, one more windows specific software for the university
[03:45] <ScottK> He's writing a python-qt4 Launchpad client using python-launchpad
[03:45] <nxvl> they only make me hate microsft more that i do now
[03:45] <NCommander> nxvl, see if it works in WINE
[03:46] <NCommander> ScottK, wow .... that's awesome
[03:46] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i've been through that too :P
[03:46] <NCommander> It reminds me of GNATS ...
[03:46] <nxvl> NCommander: i hate wine too
[03:46] <nxvl> :D
[03:46] <NCommander> nxvl, red or white?
[03:46] <nxvl> heh
[03:47] <nxvl> class i over
[03:47] <nxvl> read you later!
[03:47]  * ScottK hands NCommander https://launchpad.net/leonov
[03:47] <NCommander> I think bash.org went up to that 404 in the sky ...
[03:48] <NCommander> FINALLY
[03:48] <NCommander> courier starts compiling
[03:48] <NCommander> What a beast
[03:49] <NCommander> Configure should die
[03:49] <ScottK> It seemed to me you'd find it familiar and welcoming.
[03:50] <NCommander> configure isn't so bad if you write the scripts right
[03:50] <NCommander> i.e. most GNU projects and Hurd
[03:50] <NCommander> Then you get some beautiful abuses
[03:50] <NCommander> GCC for instance
[03:50] <ScottK> Right, but you seem to revel in painful code.
[03:50] <NCommander> ITs the only script I've ever seen that can actually compile binutils, glibc, newlib, hurd, and gnumach all in a single pass
[03:50] <NCommander> O_o;
[03:51] <NCommander> ^autoconf
[03:51] <NCommander> BTW, perforce could handle the entire ubuntu packages repo
[03:51] <NCommander> its probably one of the only VCSs that could scale to the size required
[03:52] <ScottK> At $900 per seat.
[03:52] <NCommander> Open source development on perforce is free
[03:52] <NCommander> That's why both OpenWatcom and FreeBSD use it
[03:52] <ScottK> Hmmmm.
[03:52] <ScottK> Interesting.
[03:52] <ScottK> The only time I've run into was at a customer's that was not doing open source development.
[03:53] <NCommander> Oh for the love of
[03:53] <NCommander> WTF is wrong with this libtool script
[03:53] <NCommander> *twich
[03:53] <NCommander> git's inability to handle directory history tracking bugs me
[03:53] <NCommander> (and the way it handles renames)
[03:56] <NCommander> it looks like this libtool is broken compiling CXX objects
[03:57] <NCommander> ScottK, well, I kinda figured out your issue
[03:57] <NCommander> did you touch this libtool script?
[03:58] <ScottK> No.  The straight Debian package fails the same way on Intrepid.
[03:59] <NCommander> for some reason
[03:59] <NCommander> Half the script is corrupted
[03:59] <NCommander> I copied a known working libtool
[03:59] <NCommander> and it works
[03:59] <NCommander> How big of a hack do you want this to be?
[04:00] <ScottK> I'll settle for working and no one will yell at me if I upload it.  Maintainable would be nice.  Bonus points for a nice patch we can send to Debian.
[04:00] <NCommander> Does the Debian one build?
[04:00] <NCommander> (I'd be extremely suprised)
[04:01] <ScottK> Not on Intrepid.  They both build on Sid.  Neither build on Experimental.
[04:01] <NCommander> Ok
[04:01] <ScottK> Note that Intrepid and Experimental have the same libtool.
[04:01] <NCommander> configure generating a bum libtool
[04:01] <NCommander> None of the configuration variables are being set properly
[04:03] <ScottK> OK.  So how do we fix it.
[04:03] <NCommander> Well
[04:03] <NCommander> Copy the working libtool from the base of the source directory into maildrop
[04:03] <NCommander> Which gets maildrop building
[04:03] <NCommander> But its ugly as hell
[04:04] <ScottK> OK.  What's the non-ugly answer?
[04:04] <NCommander> I think its cached the old libtool
[04:04] <NCommander> All the autocrap cache files are sitting here
[04:05] <ScottK> OK.  So maybe I just open a pristine tarball, drop the debian dir in there and see if it builds.
[04:05] <NCommander> I think these cache files are from upstream
[04:05] <ScottK> Oh.
[04:05] <ScottK> Crap.
[04:05] <NCommander> Yeah
[04:05] <NCommander> Crap
[04:05] <NCommander> I'm seeing if I can rebuild autotools
[04:05] <NCommander> (in maildrop)
[04:06] <NCommander> Want to see if clean source just builds?
[04:07] <ScottK> Wiorking on it.
[04:07]  * NCommander looks at autofun's manual
[04:07] <NCommander> There's probably an M4 macro missing
[04:10] <ScottK> Build started, so we'll know in a few hours ...
[04:10] <Hobbsee> build will fail.
[04:12] <NCommander> ??
[04:12] <NCommander> Why does courier take so long to build?
[04:13] <ScottK> It doesn't really take hours.  It just feels like it.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> GAH!!!
[04:14] <NCommander> I'm checking now on a clean build
[04:14] <NCommander> Hobbsee, ?
[04:14] <Hobbsee> my battery has died, in my music player.
[04:15] <Hobbsee> and i didn't bring the USB cable to charge it, or anything.
[04:15] <NCommander> Ok
[04:15] <NCommander> On a clean courier
[04:15] <NCommander> Maildrop builds out of the box
[04:15] <NCommander> so we can blame debian on this one
[04:16] <ScottK> Excellent.
[04:16] <NCommander> Ugh
[04:16] <ScottK> Mark yourself off in debian/changelog for having cleaned it up and attach a debdiff to the bug.
[04:16] <NCommander> He inlines all the patches
[04:16] <ScottK> Ugh.
[04:17] <ScottK> So we have to sort the real changes from the libtool cruft.
[04:18] <Hobbsee> tasty.
[04:20] <NCommander> how do some of these people become DDs
[04:20] <NCommander> How do they pass T&S
[04:20] <ScottK> Some of them did before there was T&S.
[04:20] <ScottK> Some of them are no doubt the reason there is T&S.
[04:22] <NCommander> ugh
[04:22] <NCommander> *twichs*
[04:22] <NCommander> I think all these config.sub files in the diff file are doing it
[04:23] <NCommander> are the .po files susposed to be in the diff o_o;
[04:24] <ScottK> Some of those are likely bogus and some aren't.
[04:24] <NCommander> The timestamp is from a few versions ago
[04:24] <NCommander> I just removed them all
[04:24] <NCommander> If it builds
[04:24] <NCommander> Fine
[04:25] <NCommander> It's building
[04:26] <NCommander> ScottK, I'm trying to figure out if I should hurt the Debian upstream or the courier upstream
[04:26] <NCommander> The former for doing fun stuff like .sub/.guess when out of the box works fine, and the later for using autofun
[04:29] <ScottK> So I removed that from the diff and I'm going through to make sure no other crap snuck in.
[04:30] <ScottK> I'm currently at line 10,729 of the .diff.  Not kidding.
[04:30] <NCommander> Mine is down to 6000-ish
[04:31] <NCommander> I removed everything expect the "seems to still be needed", and everything in debian
[04:32] <ScottK> I'm trying to preserve the .po file changes so it's a little less simple.
[04:32] <NCommander> I left those in
[04:32] <NCommander> And mine was still down to 6000
[04:32] <NCommander> He included config.status/config.guess at least a dozen times
[04:33] <NCommander> er wait
[04:33] <NCommander> Sorry
[04:33] <NCommander> Mine is 13166
[04:33] <NCommander> Miscounted
[04:33] <NCommander> (had a stray / 2o ro something ;-)
[04:37] <RAOF> bddebian: Still interested in discussing that dependency thing?  That sounds like upstream doesn't actually know how to use automake :)
[04:38] <bddebian> RAOF: I'm trying to help upstream.  He inherited the build system from someone else
[04:39] <RAOF> Ah, right.  So what's actually happening is that the build is currently producing a pseudo-library in one directory and trying to use it in this one?
[04:40] <bddebian> Apparently :)
[04:40] <Fab987> hi everybody
[04:40] <NCommander> ScottK, its past the point where it was FTBFSing I think
[04:40] <RAOF> Probably what wants to happen is adding some foo_LIBADD=../thelibdirectory/foo.a, I think.
[04:41] <ScottK> OK.
[04:42] <Fab987> do you know where i should ask for a software in Universe ?
[04:43] <bddebian> RAOF: That's one possibility but he doesn't want a static library that gets installed if possible I think.  Something like a libtool convenience library or such?
[04:46] <NCommander> ScottK, I spoke too soon
[04:47] <ScottK> OK.  What now?
[04:48] <RAOF> bddebian: Yeah.  The goat book (I think) has a section dedicated to "internal convenience libraries".
[04:50] <RAOF> bddebian: http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_92.html#SEC92
[04:50] <ScottK> NCommander: I just finished mine and started it to build.
[04:51] <NCommander> ScottK, well, if you want a super-sized hack to make it build, through "cp $srcidr/libtool $srcdir/maildrop/libtool" after configure
[04:51] <NCommander> and it will work :-/
[04:51] <bddebian> RAOF: Thanks man
[04:53] <ScottK> Maybe if this one doesn't work I'll try that.  .diff.gz looks way cleaner in any case.
[04:59] <NCommander> ScottK, I might have run down the configure.in issue with libtool
[05:00] <NCommander> (I had to rearrange some of the rules)
[05:00] <NCommander> er
[05:00] <NCommander> nm
[05:03] <ScottK> Nope.  Mine didn't work either.
[05:04] <NCommander> Its frustaitng
[05:04] <nxvl> NCommander: you fixed courier?
[05:04] <NCommander> I have a work around which works
[05:04] <NCommander> Buts not a real fix
[05:05] <nxvl> :(
[05:05] <ScottK> NCommander: Are you up for fiddling around with it some more?
[05:06] <ScottK> Clearly you're making progress.
[05:06] <NCommander> I told you my "fix"
[05:06] <NCommander> IT was to copy a libtool from a source folder which works ;-)
[05:07] <ScottK> Right.  I want the better one.
[05:07] <NCommander> Ok
[05:07] <NCommander> I'm going to start zapping patches one by one
[05:07] <NCommander> Especially the more braindead looking ones
[05:07] <ScottK> If you can't figure it, we'll do the whack job, but we've got time until freeze to figure it out.
[05:07] <ScottK> Thanks.
[05:08] <NCommander> I think I found the patch that broke it
[05:08] <NCommander> It removes a sanity check
[05:08] <NCommander> Which is obviously now required for sanity
[05:09] <NCommander> Whoever packaged this should be shot
[05:09] <StevenK> NCommander: Out of a cannon?
[05:09]  * nxvl waves on NCommander 
[05:09] <NCommander> This package is almost enough to make me want to break from the Debian package and do Ubuntu specific ones
[05:09] <NCommander> ScottK, and no complaining about ubuntu specific packages if the debian packaging so braindead that it makes my eyes bleed
[05:09]  * NCommander is preemptive
[05:10] <ScottK> Up to now it's actually worked.
[05:10] <NCommander> Well
[05:10] <NCommander> The same could be said about hurd
[05:10] <NCommander> Doesn't mean you want to use it
[05:10] <StevenK> It's Courier, like it's worked well
[05:11]  * NCommander has always used UW IMAPd
[05:11] <nxvl> i use courier
[05:11] <nxvl> i think
[05:11] <NCommander> SASL makes my brain hurt
[05:11] <StevenK> I used Cyrus for a while, and now I run Dovecot.
[05:11] <nxvl> snedmail makes my brain freeze
[05:11] <nxvl> ok yeah
[05:11] <nxvl> dovecot is what i used
[05:11] <nxvl> not courier
[05:12] <nxvl> postfix+dovecot
[05:12] <nxvl> (i hate mondays)
[05:12] <StevenK> nxvl: Me too.
[05:12]  * StevenK <3's Postfix+Dovecot
[05:12] <StevenK> SMTP AUTH with 3 whole lines in main.cf, it's *wonderful*
[05:13] <NCommander> I used to compile sendmail from source
[05:13] <ScottK> NCommander: Have you ever looked at the Debian package for Sendmail?
[05:13] <NCommander> CDBS
[05:13] <NCommander> There are things that even hurt for me
[05:13] <ScottK> Not only that.
[05:14] <ScottK> Tarball in Tarball plus CDBS.  Then it gets weird.
[05:14] <NCommander> o_o;
[05:14] <NCommander> O.o;;;;
[05:14] <NCommander> compiling sendmail isn't actually that hard
[05:14] <NCommander> (vs configuring it)
[05:14] <NCommander> HOW THE HELL DO YOU SCREW THAT UP?
[05:15] <NCommander> I use exim on my laptop since I find its easier to setup smarthosts with it vs postfix
[05:15] <NCommander> ANd I use postfix when I need a real MTA
[05:15] <ScottK> The pacakge works, but contains no-nonmaintainer servicable parts.
[05:16]  * StevenK hugs his colo'd mailserver
[05:16] <ScottK> NCommander: I only touched it because I was trying to get packages the build milters promoted to Main.
[05:16] <StevenK> ScottK: Ew.
[05:16] <NCommander> ew
[05:16]  * StevenK high fives NCommander 
[05:16] <NCommander> Just getting sendmail to build with milters is like ...
[05:17]  * NCommander high fives StevenK 
[05:17] <NCommander> is like trying to use Vista as a desktop OS
[05:17] <NCommander> Sure, it works, but you've got to bend over and feel the pain
[05:17] <NCommander> ScottK, I fixed the maildrop FTBFS
[05:17] <ScottK> Postfix OTOH works nicely with milters.
[05:17] <NCommander> Now if the rest of the package compiles
[05:18] <ScottK> Excellent.
[05:18] <NCommander> If only I was an MOTU
[05:18]  * NCommander ducks
[05:18] <StevenK> ScottK: Do you have a cheat sheet about how milters fit into Postfix?
[05:18] <ScottK> NCommander: I got amavid-new promoted and am working on Clamav in Main.  Both those build milters, so even if I don't care if they work, I need libmilter/libmiter-dev in Main to build the packages.
[05:19] <NCommander> Bah
[05:19] <NCommander> Debian clamav just posted a RFH
[05:19] <NCommander> And is considering orphaning the package ....
[05:19] <ScottK> StevenK: The README in the Postfix docs is pretty good.
[05:19] <ScottK> NCommander: It's his second one.
[05:19] <ScottK> StevenK: Any milter in particular?
[05:19] <ScottK> StevenK: I'm running the DKIM one currently and it works fine.
[05:20] <NCommander> The only milter I ever bothered to fight to get going with sendmail vs. using procmail was spamassassin
[05:20] <StevenK> ScottK: I'm using Postfix and Mailscanner. At this point, something that has similar functionality and doesn't make people cry
[05:20] <NCommander> clamav's source hurts
[05:20] <NCommander> Badly
[05:21] <ScottK> StevenK: The upstream recommended approach is to use Amavisd-new as a content filter.
[05:21]  * NCommander listens to courier build
[05:21] <ScottK> We have that in Main and then you can hang clamav and spamassassin or whatever off of it.
[05:21] <NCommander> Does the CD include all of main?
[05:21] <NCommander> (random, but curious)
[05:21] <ScottK> Amavisd-new has excellent documentation on integrating with Postfix.
[05:21] <ScottK> yes
[05:21] <NCommander> ah
[05:21] <NCommander> If it didn't
[05:22] <ScottK> If by CD, you mean all of them.
[05:22] <NCommander> No, just the first one ;-)
[05:22] <NCommander> I'd nominate for killing -devel off the first LiveCD/Alt CD
[05:22] <NCommander> *-dev
[05:22] <ScottK> i.e. Server CD has all the server parts.  Ubuntu Desktop has the Gnome crap, and Kubuntu has the good KDE stuff.
[05:22] <StevenK> ScottK: My problem with that is it requires 2 more ports
[05:22] <StevenK> ScottK: 25 -> 10025 -> 10026
[05:22] <ScottK> Yes.  That's a problem for you?
[05:22] <NCommander> what milter O_o?
[05:22] <ScottK> amavisd-new does have a milter too.
[05:22] <ScottK> I haven't used it.
[05:23] <ScottK> NCommander: The CD doesn't have all the -dev packages, I don't think.
[05:24] <NCommander> ScottK, it's got libc-dev, gcc, and such
[05:24] <NCommander> While I can see the use for gcc on the alternate CD
[05:24] <ScottK> Right.  I think it has build-essential.
[05:24] <NCommander> (for those fun wonderful times you need to actually compile kernel modules from the ramdisk)
[05:24] <NCommander> Ugh, that was fun
[05:24] <ScottK> NCommander: How's it going?
[05:24] <NCommander> That laptop could boot from CD< and then loose it later on
[05:25] <NCommander> Freaking firewire based CD ROM drive
[05:25] <NCommander> and the d-i of the day didn't include the firewire ATAPI drivers in the default kernel ;-)
[05:25] <NCommander> So I built the modules right there in the ram disk
[05:26] <NCommander> ScottK, compiling still
[05:26] <NCommander> Which is bettre then where we got before
[05:27] <ScottK> K.
[05:30] <NCommander> argh
[05:30] <NCommander> FTBFS in webmail
[05:30] <NCommander> (how the hell does it fail to build webmail O_O;;;;)
[05:31] <NCommander> *sigh*
[05:31] <NCommander> It seems everytime it rebuilds automake scripts
[05:31] <NCommander> It goes boom
[05:31] <ScottK> Sounds like you're making good progress though.
[05:32] <NCommander> well
[05:32] <NCommander> ...
[05:32] <NCommander> oh for the love of
[05:32] <NCommander> These patches have been merged upstream for some considerable time
[05:32] <NCommander> .....
[05:32] <NCommander> I
[05:32] <NCommander> ....
[05:32] <ScottK> IIRC webmail is the last module to build.
[05:32] <NCommander> It BURNS
[05:33] <NCommander> ok
[05:33] <NCommander> It should be fixed now
[05:33] <ScottK> See.  I knew you'd enjoy this one.
[05:33] <NCommander> Finally
[05:33]  * NCommander hits ScottK with some heavy lead coding pipes
[05:34] <ScottK> NCommander: I need to go.  I have to get up in less than 6 1/2 hours and I haven't even had any alcohol yet.
[05:34]  * NCommander hands you aclocal
[05:34] <NCommander> Close enough :-P
[05:35] <ScottK> NCommander: No.
[05:35] <ScottK> NCommander: Would you please slap an appropriatley snarky debian/changelog entry on what you end up with and then attach a debdiff to the bug?  I'll sponsor it tomorrow.
[05:35] <NCommander> Ok
[05:35] <NCommander> Unless I find some vic^W helpful MOTU to upload ;-)
[05:35] <ScottK> NCommander: Thanks.  This has been a big help.
[05:36] <NCommander> who wants to upload a package :-P
[05:36] <ScottK> Make nxvl do it if he comes back.
[05:36] <ScottK> Good night.
[05:37] <NCommander> night
[05:39] <NCommander> warp10, are you an MOTU? (I forget)
[05:40] <warp10> NCommander: Yeah, I am
[05:40] <NCommander> warp10, can you sponsor an upload for me?
[05:40] <NCommander> (as soon as I confirm it builds and stuff)
[05:40] <warp10> NCommander: sure... which one?
[05:40] <NCommander> courier IMAP
[05:40] <StevenK> warp10: Run!
[05:40] <StevenK> Now!
[05:40] <NCommander> Finally resolved the FTBFS fun on that one
[05:40] <StevenK> :-p
[05:40] <warp10> StevenK: :D
[05:41]  * NCommander kicks StevenK and jumps warp10
[05:41] <StevenK> hAHA
[05:41] <StevenK> Ooops, caps
[05:41] <warp10> :D
[05:41] <NCommander> You do it, and your REVU account stays safe, if not, then, well
[05:41] <NCommander> Maybe your reviewer status will disappear :-P
[05:41] <StevenK> NCommander: Like I want to use REVU
[05:41] <NCommander> */blackmail*
[05:41] <NCommander> *shot*
[05:41] <NCommander> I was talking to warp10 :-P
[05:41] <StevenK> Then I have to upload stuff
[05:41] <NCommander> argh
[05:41] <NCommander> StevenK saw a fatal plan in my logicx
[05:41] <warp10> NCommander: REVU still sees me as a contributor, so your blackmail is... useless! :P
[05:42] <NCommander> fine
[05:42] <NCommander> I'll make you a reviewer
[05:42] <NCommander> (you do know you need to request reviewer status, right?)
[05:42] <StevenK> I bleated at persia, and he fixed it
[05:43] <warp10> NCommander: well, I asked already ( don't remember who answered to me here on motu). The problem was that I was registered there with an old GPG key, but that was before deploying the new openid based login
[05:44] <NCommander> Hrm
[05:44] <NCommander> now that we have launchpadlib
[05:44] <NCommander> I should make the auth levels smart
[05:44] <NCommander> But
[05:44] <StevenK> But?
[05:44] <NCommander> I don't want to make REVU completely Lp dependent
[05:45] <warp10> NCommander: why not?
[05:46] <NCommander> I don't like having my name in software that ends up in Multiverse
[05:46] <NCommander> It gives me a non-clean feeling ;-)
[05:46] <warp10> :D
[05:48] <NCommander> and courier keeps compiling
[05:55] <RAOF> We should totally write some C++ that computes pi to a billion decimal places as a part of the compile process.
[05:56] <ajmitch> RAOF: using templates, of course
[05:56] <StevenK> And then Java to make sure the C++ version is right
[05:56] <NCommander> I'm debating if switching to freebsd is worth it (I'll have Ubuntu running under Linux userspace emulation)
[05:57] <NCommander> The only hardware that won't work is my wifi card unless I use ndiswrapper -_-;
[05:57] <RAOF> ajmitch: Well, how else would you do it at compile time? :)
[05:57] <lifeless> NCommander: 'worth it'? What would it do for you ?
[05:58] <NCommander> I loath linux's "design"
[05:58] <NCommander> I used FreeBSD as my desktop for many years before I got sick of compiling stuff from ports
[05:58] <lifeless> you could use nexenta
[05:58] <NCommander> solaris doesn't work well on laptops
[06:03] <dholbach> good morning
[06:05] <ajmitch> must be nearly time to head home :)
[06:05] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[06:05] <dholbach> hiya ajmitch :-)
[06:05] <StevenK> NCommander: The kernel design?
[06:05] <NCommander> Or lack of one
[06:05] <NCommander> I always felt Linux was a glorified hack
[06:05] <NCommander> For instance
[06:05] <StevenK> That's the beauty of it
[06:06] <NCommander> Is it possible for Linux to have a STABLE driver API for more than a single release?
[06:07] <NCommander> also, zfs and jails
[06:07] <NCommander> 'nuf said
[06:07] <StevenK> NCommander: So you prefer your ethernet devices having different names based on which driver is used?
[06:07] <NCommander> I have that issue on Linux plenty
[06:07] <lifeless> StevenK: linux does that too :P
[06:07] <NCommander> usually its eth0
[06:07] <NCommander> On this machine
[06:07] <lifeless> or wlan0
[06:07] <lifeless> or ath0
[06:07] <NCommander> But it comes up eth1, or 2 randomly then
[06:07] <NCommander> On my laptop
[06:08] <NCommander> Hardwired ethernet is gpi0 or something like that, and wireless is eth0
[06:08] <StevenK> Right, bad example :-/
[06:08] <NCommander> Try your luck for 200?
[06:09] <NCommander> I personally would like a kernel that doesn't look like drunk monkeys coded it in places
[06:09] <NCommander> netbsd's kernel is absolutely beautiful :-)
[06:09] <NCommander> It's userland is a POS however
[06:10]  * RAOF would like a kernel that supports his hardware well.
[06:10] <NCommander> RAOF, well, try the FreeBSD liveCD
[06:10] <NCommander> (you'd be suprised)
[06:10] <NCommander> If it works well
[06:10] <NCommander> Join me in creating an ubuntu-like distro for it ;-)
[06:11] <RAOF> Urgh. :)
[06:11] <\sh> NCommander: I don't work for canonical and never will be...(hopefully :))
[06:11] <NCommander> Don't want to code on LP ?
[06:11] <RAOF> NCommander: Fix the *bsd kernel so that nouveau can work, and I'll give it a whirl.
[06:11]  * NCommander cracks figures
[06:12] <NCommander> *fingers
[06:12] <\sh> NCommander: I don't want to earn money with opensource in the first place...I did this, and it is no fun...so working in my spare time and having a company which gives me time of my normal day time job to work on OSS is just enough
[06:12] <NCommander> er
[06:12] <NCommander> Correct me if I'mw rong
[06:12] <NCommander> But I didn't think nouveau had a kernel module ...
[06:13] <RAOF> NCommander: It certainly does; it's got a drm module.
[06:13] <NCommander> oh
[06:13] <NCommander> Why would I want to put DRM in freebsd ;-)
[06:13] <RAOF> :P
[06:13] <NCommander> It looks like someone already beat me to the punch and ported it to freebsd
[06:14] <NCommander> "This resolves and issue on amd64 FreeBSD"
[06:14] <RAOF> Which particular one?  I know drm is ported to bsd, but is enough of it ported such that nouveau works? :)
[06:14] <NCommander> Hrm
[06:14] <NCommander> Interesting
[06:14] <NCommander> As for freebsd
[06:15] <ajmitch> RAOF: how is nouveau progressing lately? I haven't heard any updates for awhile
[06:15] <NCommander> All three more or less use the same driver API
[06:15] <NCommander> (its usually trival to get one driver to from one to the other unless its netbsd's busmanager which the other two don't have)
[06:16] <RAOF> ajmitch: nv5x recently grew some EXA/Xv/gallium/kernel modesetting.  Various 2d fixes.
[06:16] <NCommander> its pretty cool
[06:16] <NCommander> RAOF, so if I port nouvea to FreeBSD, can I convert you ;-)?
[06:17] <ajmitch> RAOF: any real progress on 3D with gallium?
[06:17] <RAOF> ajmitch: Not so much that they're interested in testing.
[06:17] <RAOF> Oh, yeah, and there's an XvMC gallium implementation, too.
[06:18] <ajmitch> so it's still in the trying out carious ideas to see what breaks the least
[06:18] <RAOF> ajmitch: My understanding of the current state is that the nouveau parts are reasonably complete, actually, but the mesa-gallium isn't
[06:18] <ajmitch> is the memory management debate being settled?
[06:18] <ajmitch> I recall there being both TTM & GEM, or something along those lines
[06:18] <RAOF> It seems GEM with an optional TTM backend is the outcome.
[06:19]  * NCommander pops in a blank CD-R
[06:19] <ajmitch> as long as people can actually decide & start using it :)
[06:19] <RAOF> Right.
[06:19] <NCommander> Out of curosity why hasn't it seen the inside of universe?
[06:20] <RAOF> NCommander: it requires a git snapshot of libdrm.  I don't particularly feel like supporting the base of the 3d stack myself :)
[06:20] <NCommander> oh, ow
[06:20] <NCommander> But you do package libdrm
[06:20] <RAOF> In my PPA.  Which I can do, because I don't have to care if I break anything.
[06:20] <\sh> did I read it correct..now we have partner packages announced on -changes (hardy-changes , db2 stuff)?
[06:20] <NCommander> nouveau works fine with freebsd
[06:20] <NCommander> It's in ports I think
[06:21] <ajmitch> \sh: looks like it
[06:21] <RAOF> Cool.  Last I heard it was broken, presumably someone fixed it.
[06:21] <NCommander> I have a NVDIA card
[06:21] <NCommander> If I install FreeBSD on my spare parition
[06:21] <\sh> ajmitch: did someone checked if it's really a source package or just a repackaged binary tar in a deb? ,-)
[06:21] <RAOF> NCommander: And there's some sane package management for *bsd? :)
[06:21] <NCommander> maybe I can be convienced to fix it
[06:21] <NCommander> That's why I'll be running kfreebsd
[06:21] <NCommander> FreebSD kernel
[06:21] <NCommander> GNU userland
[06:21] <NCommander> APT awesomeness
[06:22] <RAOF> Right.  Debian-on-freebsd kernel.
[06:22] <NCommander> I'm doing their lenny release ;-)
[06:22] <NCommander> RAOF, well, you could always just use the nvidia binary blob ...
[06:22] <NCommander> (for freebsd)
[06:22] <RAOF> Or the nv driver, which doesn't need a kernel module.
[06:23] <NCommander> IF you've never used ports
[06:23] <NCommander> Its a pretty cool system
[06:23] <StevenK> Except you need to build every damn thing
[06:23] <StevenK> Yay Gentoo
[06:24] <\sh> well, the idea behind portage (hence the name) was the bsd ports system....no secret
[06:24] <StevenK> Well, yeah
[06:24] <StevenK> I know
[06:24] <NCommander> ports does support binary packages ;-)
[06:24] <\sh> portage too..
[06:24] <NCommander> ports doesn't change every time you blink
[06:25] <\sh> but why should someone wants to use pre-compiled packages when there is the source and da evil CXX Flags ,-.>
[06:25] <LucidFox> dholbach> bug #257623 can't be synced due to different orig.tar.gz
[06:25] <LucidFox> gah
[06:25] <NCommander> \sh, run kfreebsd ;-)
[06:25] <dholbach> LucidFox: can you take care of the fake-sync?
[06:26] <LucidFox> test
[06:26] <NCommander> ?
[06:26] <dholbach> LucidFox: can you take care of the fake-sync?
[06:26] <\sh> NCommander: the last time I ran bsd in a production environment in 1995 or 96 .. I was running BSDi...and the last time I tried freebsd was with release 5 and nothing was working as it was on linux...
[06:27] <NCommander> I haven't used it in awhile myself
[06:27] <NCommander> So I set aside 10G to dump a base install on
[06:28]  * \sh used SCO as well...in former times there was no choice when you wanted to run a S2M (E3) card in a i386 box ,->
[06:28] <nxvl> hi gang!
[06:28] <NCommander> I learned how to use UNIX based systems on an open irix box
[06:29] <NCommander> nxvl, I fixed it
[06:29] <StevenK> \sh: Eww
[06:29] <StevenK> NCommander: Ugh, Irix!?
[06:29] <NCommander> 4.1
[06:29] <NCommander> I compiled Elm in my home folder
[06:29] <nxvl> NCommander: really?
[06:29] <StevenK> But, Irix!?
[06:29]  * nxvl checks
[06:29] <\sh> s/E3/E1/ that's more like it..
[06:30] <NCommander> nxvl, not uploaded yet
[06:30] <NCommander> I'm going to kick it onto my PPA
[06:30] <nxvl> ok
[06:30] <NCommander> Could you sponsor for me?
[06:30] <LucidFox> dholbach: bug #257623 can't be synced
[06:30] <LucidFox> due to different orig.tar.gz
[06:30] <dholbach> LucidFox: can you take care of the fake-sync?
[06:30] <nxvl> NCommander: yep
[06:30] <nxvl> it it works
[06:30] <nxvl> dholbach: good morning
[06:30] <dholbach> hi nxvl :)
[06:30] <LucidFox> there's no need to fakesync - the Debian and Ubuntu versions are essentially identical
[06:30] <dholbach> nice interview :)
[06:30] <dholbach> LucidFox: OK, let's close the bug then
[06:30] <NCommander> Hrm
[06:31] <nxvl> thank you!
[06:31] <NCommander> I'll have to use an external wireless card with freebsd
[06:31] <dholbach> LucidFox: and sync with the next upstream version
[06:31] <NCommander> But thats ok, cause then I can have a fully free system (aside from the BIOS)
[06:31] <\sh> StevenK: Digital Unix and VMS but no irix... ,-)
[06:31] <NCommander> nxvl, ugh, ew
[06:31] <NCommander> YOu do not want to know how many lintian warnings this makes
[06:31] <LucidFox> I actually have a new upstream version waiting on mentors.debian.net
[06:32] <dholbach> LucidFox: excellent
[06:32] <nxvl> heh
[06:32] <nxvl> NCommander: check how important they are, if not so much i will fix them
[06:32] <nxvl> NCommander: you did the hard part
[06:32] <NCommander> Uh
[06:32] <NCommander> 22 errors
[06:32] <NCommander> rpath
[06:33] <NCommander> dup-config files
[06:33] <NCommander> ANd
[06:33] <nxvl> mmm it looks like i will have the intrepid release party in brazil
[06:33] <NCommander> ...
[06:33] <NCommander> Ugh
[06:33] <NCommander> THey're all upstream
[06:33] <NCommander> I don't mind helping
[06:33] <nxvl> rpath! i know that
[06:33] <NCommander> But this is too much for me
[06:34] <NCommander> /bin/sh: -/usr/bin/make: not found
[06:34] <NCommander> clean target is broken
[06:34] <nxvl> i know that error too
[06:34] <nxvl> NCommander: upload it i'll fix it
[06:34] <NCommander> Can't
[06:34] <NCommander> Don't have a clean source package to upload
[06:34] <nxvl> juai?
[06:34] <nxvl> debdiff
[06:34] <nxvl> just give a something i can work on
[06:34] <NCommander> Only works if you can build a source package ;-)
[06:35] <NCommander> I just hacked the clean rule to work
[06:35] <NCommander> You'll have to fix the lintian fun
[06:35] <NCommander> I don't care to deal with this headache any more
[06:35] <NCommander> (no offense)
[06:35] <nxvl> NCommander: heh i said the same last week
[06:35] <NCommander> well, it builds now
[06:35] <NCommander> If you can fix it up
[06:35] <NCommander> Fine
[06:35] <NCommander> If not, just upload it
[06:36] <nxvl> NCommander: if you fixed the libtool thing i can go further from that point without problems
[06:36] <NCommander> All the lintian errors are from the original source package
[06:36] <nxvl> yep
[06:36] <nxvl> i know that
[06:36] <nxvl> i fixed some of them already
[06:36] <NCommander> You should talk to the upstream debian guy
[06:36] <NCommander> Point him to lintian
[06:36] <nxvl> yup
[06:36] <nxvl> i will send him a BIG patch
[06:37] <NCommander> How about deinlining the fixes
[06:37] <nxvl> (if you can detail the solution that would be awesome too)
[06:37] <NCommander> That's why this package was so broken
[06:37] <NCommander> No patch system
[06:37] <NCommander> and patches that went upstream years ago
[06:37] <NCommander> (I cut a lot of fat out of the diff)
[06:37] <nxvl> heh
[06:37] <nxvl> i looks like you didn't have fun with this one
[06:37] <NCommander> use dpatch if you ever want me to touch it again
[06:38] <NCommander> My "fix" for the libtool issues was confirming I could remove almost every patch from this package
[06:38] <NCommander> (had to run through changelogs to figure out what the hell what did what)
[06:38] <NCommander> how long have you two been working to try and fix this POS?
[06:38] <nxvl> \o/
[06:38] <NCommander> ^packaging
[06:38] <nxvl> 2 weeks?
[06:38] <NCommander> ...
[06:39] <NCommander> You should have pointed me to it sooner
[06:39] <NCommander> I solved it in what
[06:39] <NCommander> A few hours?
[06:39] <NCommander> Out of boredem
[06:39] <nxvl> yup
[06:39] <nxvl> like 3
[06:39] <NCommander> THat's just cause this figure takes *@@#! long to configure
[06:39]  * nxvl HUGS NCommander 
[06:39] <NCommander> yay
[06:39] <NCommander> Say yes if/when I become an MOTU candiate
[06:39] <NCommander> It's uploaded to my PPA
[06:39] <NCommander> Got to wait for dinstall
[06:40] <nxvl> lp id?
[06:40] <NCommander> sonicmctails
[06:40] <NCommander> (I just want to make sure it will build on normal i386/lpia)
[06:40] <NCommander> I use amd64 and powerpc as my ubuntu boxes ;-)
[06:41] <NCommander> nxvl, handy debugging hint for when things like this happen
[06:41] <NCommander> Grab the original source package, and then see if that builds
[06:41] <NCommander> If it does
[06:41] <NCommander> Start popping patches off to figure out what breaks the build
[06:42] <NCommander> Useful tip from an old foggie porter
[06:42] <NCommander> courier is in my PPA
[06:42] <NCommander> Its building
[06:42] <nxvl> :D
[06:42] <nxvl> yep, i'm on your ppa
[06:43] <NCommander> ScottK will be happy
[06:44] <nxvl> NCommander: it has the rpath issue, don't it?
[06:45] <NCommander> yeah
[06:45] <NCommander> The first thing you need to install is a patch system
[06:45] <NCommander> DOn't inline patches!
[06:46] <nxvl> yep
[06:50] <nxvl> dholbach: about Bug 249195
[06:50] <nxvl> dholbach: since i coincide on "Stick to upstream does" i don't think it fits here
[06:51] <nxvl> dholbach: that would be the case in wich upstream makes inline changes, and then i will also suggest not to use a patch system, but if they have no changes, not inline nor using a patch system i will find better to use one
[06:51] <dholbach> nxvl: as I said: upload it, it's fine with me
[06:51] <NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-6had - awesome group to killing CDBS!
[06:51] <NCommander> yaya
[06:52] <nxvl> dholbach: yeah, more than with that specific patch i just wanted to discuss the concept of what we have been discusing on the report
[06:52] <dholbach> nxvl: to me it's additional work to add a patch system for little gain - if you forward the change a debdiff is pretty self-explanatory
[06:52] <dholbach> ... as a debdiff
[06:53] <nxvl> but DD don't usually accept debdiff, in my experience they prefer separate patches
[06:53] <NCommander> And inling causes issues cause its easy to forget patches exist
[06:53] <NCommander> Like the issues we're having with courier
[06:53] <dholbach> if you use submittodebian, you can just remove the debian/changelog portion and it will be the "separate patch"
[06:53] <dholbach> NCommander: in this case there is no other patch
[06:54] <nxvl> dholbach: yes, but now it is one minor patch, then someone will add another bitsize one
[06:54] <nxvl> and so on until you have a big delta
[06:55] <nxvl> all on inline changes
[06:55] <NCommander> If you want to see what the end result is, we've been trying to resolve FTBFS on courier for two weeks
[06:55] <NCommander> (two MOTUs, and an MOTU wannabe)
[06:55] <nxvl> i prefer, on my packages at least, to have a patch system even if i don't use it
[06:55] <nxvl> just prepare my package to use it in case i need it in the future
[06:55]  * NCommander is a dpatch lover
[06:55] <dholbach> nxvl: I understand what patch systems are for and I like having one too (if it's not a package where I keep the full source in bzr myself)
[06:56] <dholbach> did somebody forward the change to Debian already?
[06:56] <nxvl> i asked nhandler to do it i haven't check if he did
[06:56] <dholbach> I take no offense if you just take it and upload it
[06:56]  * nxvl checks
[06:56] <NCommander> nxvl, WOOO< courier successfully built!
[06:57] <dholbach> it's just what I had done
[06:57] <nxvl> \o/
[06:57] <nxvl> now lintian fun
[06:57] <NCommander> have fun
[06:57] <nxvl> NCommander: it's officialy the longest changelog i have ever seen
[06:57] <NCommander> Go read GCC's changelog when a new upstream release happens ;-)
[06:57] <nxvl> in a debian package i mean
[06:57] <nxvl> i have read longest
[06:58] <NCommander> Can you add under mine "Resolved FTBFS in maildrop/webmail"?
[06:58] <NCommander> No, I mean the GCC debian changelogs
[06:58] <nxvl> NCommander: btw, i gived up with courier before becoming a motu
[06:58] <NCommander> what made you pick it up again?
[06:58] <nxvl> done
[06:58] <NCommander> Thanks
[06:58] <NCommander> or at least point me at it to make it build?
[06:59]  * NCommander is the FTBFS terminator
[06:59] <nxvl> NCommander: i won't change your name on the signature
[06:59] <nxvl> i will just work on it and signed it
[07:00] <NCommander> how are you susposed to sign it for upload ;-)
[07:00] <nxvl> it's your upload
[07:00] <nxvl> you deserv it
[07:00] <NCommander> you still have to modify the changes file
[07:00] <NCommander> :-P
[07:00] <NCommander> oh
[07:00] <NCommander> wait
[07:00] <NCommander> ...
[07:00]  * NCommander is an idiot
[07:00] <NCommander> I forgot about debsign
[07:00] <nxvl> :D
[07:00] <NCommander> I'm not a DD
[07:00] <nxvl> and debuild -k
[07:00] <NCommander> Not for lack of trying
[07:01]  * Hobbsee throws a dead fish at NCommander 
[07:01] <nxvl> NCommander: which of the deb's has the rpath issue?
[07:02] <nxvl> all of them?
[07:03] <NCommander> pretty much
[07:03] <NCommander> just download the debs, and run lintian ;-)
[07:03] <NCommander> (debuild -nc is your friend)
[07:04] <nxvl> rpath is an amd64 only issue
[07:04] <NCommander> oh
[07:04] <NCommander> Well
[07:04] <NCommander> ...
[07:04] <NCommander> Whatever ;-)
[07:04] <NCommander> Hobbsee, why the dead fish?
[07:06] <NCommander> wow
[07:06] <NCommander> http://ipv6experiment.com/
[07:06] <NCommander> They updated
[07:08] <Hobbsee> NCommander: it wanted some excitement.
[07:09] <NCommander> *shoves it downs Hobbsee's shirt*
[07:09] <nxvl> holly! lintian output is bigger than the changelog
[07:09] <Hobbsee> oy!
[07:09]  * Hobbsee attacks NCommander with the Long Pointy Stick, and makes him like the fish.
[07:09]  * NCommander counterattacks Hobbsee by blackmailing her with the videos from the hidden cameras I installed in her flat
[07:10] <Hobbsee> you mean the one that doesn't exist? OK then :P
[07:10] <NCommander> crap
[07:10] <NCommander> Flaw in my plan
[07:10] <Hobbsee> now get back to revu hacking!
[07:11]  * NCommander bites Hobbsee 
[07:11] <NCommander> No REVU for you
[07:11] <Hobbsee> excellent!
[07:12]  * NCommander gives Hobbsee the REVU hacking virus
[07:13] <Hobbsee> oh dear.  good thing i have immunity.
[07:13] <NCommander> Meh
[07:13] <NCommander> Its called being Austrillian, you can handle anything
[07:13] <NCommander> Plagues, famine, desert, living in Austrillia
[07:13] <orly_owl> fair dinkum
[07:13] <Hobbsee> you forgot the snakes.
[07:13] <Hobbsee> (don't we have 9/10 of the most deadly snakes here?)
[07:14] <NCommander> Not all men are snakes :-P
[07:14] <NCommander> You just need to meet one with the right ./configure flags
[07:14] <Hobbsee> i meant teh ones without legs...
[07:14] <NCommander> I'll be sure to pass that along to the amputees ;-P
[07:17] <NCommander> nxvl, having fun with the lintian?
[07:19] <nxvl> NCommander: almost
[07:19] <nxvl> :D
[07:20] <NCommander> At least we got it to build ;-)
[07:20] <NCommander> the server team will be happy
[07:20] <nxvl> yep
[07:23] <NCommander> I didn't even know what made me crack open the diff
[07:23] <NCommander> :-P
[07:28] <NCommander> http://xkcd.com/149/ :-)
[07:28] <NCommander> er
[07:28] <NCommander> wrong window
[07:28] <NCommander> argh
[07:31] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:34] <Iulian> Good morning
[07:37] <nxvl> heya!
[07:38] <nxvl> NCommander: i think i finished
[07:39] <NCommander> yay
[07:39] <NCommander> upload it
[07:41] <nxvl> i'm building it
[07:41] <nxvl> once finished and rechecked i will upload it
[07:41] <nxvl> i need to drop all the .conffiles
[07:41] <NCommander> lok
[07:41] <NCommander> time for me to lie down
[07:41] <nxvl> since all of the files inthere were duplicated
[07:41] <nxvl> yep
[07:42] <nxvl> i will in a bit also
[07:42] <nxvl> after uploading this
[07:42] <nxvl> :D
[07:45] <nxvl> NCommander: oh btw, now that you are working on REVU, it will be nice to include the short description of each package (as in mentors.d.n)
[07:49] <dholbach> hi warp10, hi Iulian
[07:54] <Iulian> Hello Daniel.
[07:54] <warp10> heya dholbach
[07:55] <SolarWar> Hey guys, I created a package of an application that does not compile well against Intrepid on AMD64 (or so launchpad's ppa would deem) , but it already has two advocates and has been uploaded the launchpad Queue- what should be done in this case?
[07:56] <SolarWar> should the upstream be notified?
[07:56] <\sh> fix the amd64 problem?
[07:56] <SolarWar> its not the fault of the packaging
[07:56] <\sh> so? fix the problem anyways ;)
[07:57] <SolarWar> i can do that, but does that mean I would it would have to go through a whole new review cycle?
[07:57] <SolarWar> since the upstream's version number would be bumped..
[07:57] <\sh> SolarWar: if the packaging is ok..no...
[07:57] <\sh> SolarWar: any buildlog of the amd64 problem?
[07:57] <SolarWar> hrm, one sec
[08:28] <tuxmaniac> hello motus. I have uploaded a .diff.gz fixing bug 207760. It would be great if someone reviews and sponsors the upload. thanks in advance
[08:59] <wgrant> YokoZar: I think I segfaulted upon reading your latest blog post.
[09:00] <YokoZar> wgrant: hehe
[09:00] <YokoZar> wgrant: what's great is I edited it a bit too
[09:02] <directhex> wgrant, it makes much more sense than most of ubuntuforums though
[09:07] <wgrant> directhex: This is true.
[09:08] <directhex> considering the ubuntu forums top the google results for "banning mono", i'm wondering how many brains would explode if i linked to some medibuntu-ffmpeg-linked silverlight extensions for ff3 i compiled
[09:10] <RAOF> directhex: OOOOOh.  Yes please!
[09:11] <directhex> RAOF, got anywhere i can host them without being arrested, beaten, and chopped into small chunks by the software patent police?
[09:11] <RAOF> No, not really.
[09:11]  * RAOF is off to see _The Bank Job_.  Let's hope it's cool.
[09:12] <directhex> it's impressively small, for what it is
[09:17] <huats> morning !
[09:25] <nullack> Hi MOTUS. Id just like to give a heads up please that gstreamer according to their schedule (http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/wiki/ReleasePlanning2008) should have the gstreamer ffmpeg plugin ready soon. They have frozen their ffmpeg synch
[09:46] <Laney> Can someone please unsubscribe u-u-s from bug #244531? Thanks
[09:47] <emgent> Laney: done.
[09:48] <Laney> thanks emgent
[09:48]  * Laney runs
[09:48] <Laney> (sneaking on irc from work, naughty naughty)
[09:50] <tuxmaniac> huats: hi. I think you have missed the .diff.gz in the bug for gcalctool you just reported
[09:50] <huats> tuxmaniac: no
[09:50] <huats> tuxmaniac: it is willingly
[09:51] <emgent> dendrobates: heya
[09:51] <huats> I need the bug number to close it...
[09:51] <huats> so I need to create it...
[09:51] <tuxmaniac> huats: aah ok :-)
[09:51] <huats> I'll attach it now
[09:51] <dendrobates> emgent: hi
[09:51] <tuxmaniac> I just made it Incomplete
[09:51] <tuxmaniac> sorry for that
[09:51] <huats> tuxmaniac: no pb
[09:51] <huats> tuxmaniac: I've set it to in progress
[09:53] <tuxmaniac> hello motus. I have uploaded a .diff.gz fixing bug 207760. It would be great if someone reviews and sponsors the upload. thanks in advance
[11:04] <jorgenpt> So, I've packaged some new software
[11:05] <jorgenpt> And I'd like to include it into as many versions of ubuntu as possible, i.e. in the official repositories.
[11:05] <jorgenpt> (and possibly in Debian as well)
[11:05] <jorgenpt> Any tips on where I go? :)
[11:05] <jorgenpt> !revu
[11:05] <jorgenpt> Anything else I should look at?
[11:07] <joaopinto> jorgenpt, do not expect it to be available on Intrepid, late timing :P
[11:07] <jorgenpt> Is it not possible to add packages to e.g. hardy etc now?
[11:08] <joaopinto> no, new packages only go into new release repositories
[11:09] <jorgenpt> Darn, is that the same for Debian?
[11:09] <joaopinto> no idea
[11:09] <jorgenpt> Ok, thanks.
[11:09] <jorgenpt> Topic says 'Intrepid open, go wild!  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html' - what does that mean?
[11:11] <directhex> yes, it's the same for debian
[11:11] <directhex> but you might be able to use the partly-official debian-backports project
[11:11] <directhex> what works AGAINST you right now is that debian has entered freeze, for the upcoming release of Lenny, so no new anything is accepted
[11:25] <Syntux> Good day
[11:31] <kirkland> with respect to REVU, is there any way to configure an email address, such that I receive email each time someone adds comments to my packages(s)?
[11:35] <wgrant> kirkland: Not at this point.
[11:38] <Syntux> do we have list of ubuntu cd packages? just the ones included in the ISO image?
[11:40] <joaopinto> Syntux, apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop
[11:41] <persia> Syntux: Yes, but constructing it is a bit tricky.  You'd probably do best to use germinate: the source of the ubuntu-meta package may help.
[11:42] <persia> joaopinto: There are a few apps not in ubuntu-desktop but shipped on the CD (e.g. ubiquity).
[11:45] <Syntux> interesting, wouldn't looping over a mounted iso hunting for .deb do the trick ?
[11:46] <geser> Syntux: does the jidgo files (or the list file) on cdimages.u.c help you?
[11:48] <Syntux> geser, sure! thank you for the tip :-)
[12:07] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[12:08] <geser> Hi sistpoty|work
[12:08] <sistpoty|work> hi geser
[12:09] <Riddell> cody-somerville, \sh, jdong, TheMuso: motu-sru dudes, bug 255307 needs review
[12:10]  * cody-somerville puts on rubber gloves.
[12:11] <cody-somerville> bigon, ping
[12:12] <bigon> cody-somerville, pong
[12:12] <emgent> moin
[12:12] <cody-somerville> bigon, I'm looking at your patch.
[12:12] <Riddell> laga: which bug tracks that mythbuntu-control-centre update?
[12:12] <Riddell> laga: that's a big patch and certainly not minimal changes
[12:13] <bigon> cody-somerville, my patch?
[12:13] <cody-somerville> bigon, for bug #255307
[12:14] <Riddell> laga: why the change in versioning scheme?
[12:14] <cody-somerville> bigon, Why did you remove the dependency on python-adns for the SRU?
[12:14] <bigon> cody-somerville, the dependency is not needed anymore
[12:15] <cody-somerville> bigon, but you're doing an SRU, no?
[12:15] <bigon> cody-somerville, the patch drop the need of this dependency
[12:15] <cody-somerville> Okay, I see what you're doing.
[12:15] <bigon> (the patch has been taken from upstream)
[12:18] <Riddell> laga: actually ignoring the .po file changes it's not too bad a size, but still needs motu-sru approval
[12:18] <cody-somerville> bigon, Do you use pymsn yourself?
[12:28] <laga> Riddell: it has motu-sru approval.
[12:28] <laga> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-control-centre/+bug/241402
[12:34] <bigon> cody-somerville, I'm not really, but last time I checked it was working
[12:39] <cody-somerville> bigon, Can you test and confirm the patch is working?
[12:40] <bigon> cody-somerville, I will try tonight
[12:40] <bigon> pymsn doesn't work at all now
[12:53] <Riddell> laga: groovy, accepted
[12:56] <laga> Riddell: yay!
[13:31] <tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: if you have some time can you please look at bug 207760 , review the .diff.gz attached and sponsor if found OK?
[13:48] <DktrKranz> tuxmaniac: I don't use geda-* packages, is there any way to test if fix is good?
[13:48] <ScottK> I love the way Launchpad sticks with their commitment to let us know in advance what's coming, "I’ll post details of what’s new in 2.1.8 here after we’ve made the release."
[13:50] <laga> i also love the "behind the scenes" podcast. i'm multitasking, i don't want to concentrate on audio.
[13:51] <stefanlsd> Anyone know hat happened to cvs.fedoraproject.org?
[13:52] <zul> yeah its down
[13:52] <stefanlsd> any mirror or anything of it?
[13:52] <geser> ScottK: do they still only announce what's new/interesting for projects, bug triagers and translators?
[13:53] <geser> I seldom find there any changes listed interesting for MOTUs/core-devs
[13:53] <ScottK> Apparently they don't announce at all until after we've already experienced the 'joy' of the new release.
[13:54] <ScottK> I still haven't gotten over their latest intersection of U/I design and a random number generator.
[13:56] <geser> ScottK: the announcements are only done, so you can check if you found all new "features" already :)
[13:57] <ScottK> Right.  At one point we had some agreement we'd have warning.
[13:57] <ScottK> Generally I don't seem to have trouble noticing the ones I care about.
[13:58] <persia> I sometimes do, depending on how gradually they are introduced.
[14:05] <mwiegand> hello, is it still possible to add a package to intrepid? or rather, replace an existing package?
[14:06] <ScottK> Most of the ones I seem to run into are immediately and obviously painful.
[14:10] <mwiegand> to be specific, I'm one of the developers of OpenVAS, the still-GPL Nessus fork. openvas-client and libopenvas1 have already replaced their nessus counterparts, so it might make sense to replace nessusd and nessus-plugins as well
[14:11] <Riddell> stefanlsd: fedoraproject seems to have had notable security issues
[14:11] <stefanlsd> Riddell: mm. yeah. was a pretty good repo for patches.
[14:12] <Riddell> mwiegand: if someone does the packaging that should be fine
[14:13] <mwiegand> Riddell: sounds good, what would be the deadline for that?
[14:14] <stefanlsd> Would this be a candidate for removal - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/showimg/+bug/258593
[14:15] <stefanlsd> I contacted the upstream author and he says it not usable with KDE4 and doesnt have time to work on it...
[14:16] <geser> stefanlsd: have you asked the kubuntu people about their opinion on it?
[14:16] <ScottK> stefanlsd: We still have the libs for KDE3 in Intreppid.
[14:17] <ScottK> Does it work with that?
[14:17] <Riddell> mwiegand: feature freeze is 28th of this month
[14:17] <Riddell> ScottK: no, it needs libkonq which we don't have any more from kde 3
[14:17] <geser> ScottK: have we? kdebase from kde 3.5 seems to be gone
[14:17] <Riddell> so it probably needs to go
[14:17] <stefanlsd> I spoke to Riddell and its not he plan :)
[14:17] <stefanlsd> *the
[14:17] <ScottK> Right, if it needs the libkonq stuff it's a good candidate for removal.
[14:17] <mwiegand> Riddell: okay, thank you, I'll see what I can do
[14:18] <ScottK> geser: kdebase yes, but we still have the kdelibs.
[14:18] <ScottK> At least some of them.
[14:19] <stefanlsd> ScottK: problem is with libkonq4 which no longer exists. and libkonq5 depends on kdelibs5
[14:19] <ScottK> Yes.  We have many of the other libs but not that one.
[14:20] <stefanlsd> ScottK: and i put a couple hours into trying to get it to build against libkonq5 but no luck - and upstream responded saying it doesnt work with KDE4 and they are not working on it.
[14:21] <ScottK> Sounds like it's time for it to go then.
[14:21] <ScottK> Much better than leaving broken cruft in the archive.
[14:22] <stefanlsd> kk. thanks.  I think we're gonna get a couple of these that dont upgrade to KDE4 properly.
[14:22] <persia> Getting them removed in intrepid, when we still have hardy to fall back upon, is likely best.
[14:26] <stefanlsd> i subscribe u-u-s as normal for a removal right?
[14:28] <geser> yes
[14:29] <stefanlsd> thanks :)
[14:35] <DktrKranz> k0p: FYI umit binary just came out of NEW and it's on its way to the mirrors.
[14:38] <k0p> DktrKranz, hi
[14:38] <k0p> FYI?
[14:39] <DktrKranz> "For Your Information"
[14:39] <k0p> oh ok
[14:39] <stefanlsd> does anyone have any suggestion on this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/gpa/+bug/160751
[14:39] <k0p> DktrKranz, is it on mirrors? :D
[14:40] <DktrKranz> k0p: in some hours starting from now
[14:40] <stefanlsd> its been a while. should i rather look at building it for debian. it seems that ubuntu prefers merges?
[14:40] <k0p> DktrKranz, :D thanks
[14:47] <NCommander> ScottK, ping
[15:02] <ScottK> NCommander: Pong
[15:02] <NCommander> ScottK, courier was fixed
[15:02] <ScottK> Yes.  I saw the scrollback.  Thanks.
[15:03] <NCommander> it was not a problem
[15:06] <k0p> DktrKranz, awesome dude :D
[15:06] <k0p> thanks for all
[15:10] <DktrKranz> k0p: well... archive administration is not my business, I just noticed it :)
[15:11] <k0p> DktrKranz, yeap. Thanks for it :D
[15:13] <bddebian> Heya folks
[15:16] <ScottK-laptop> Heya bd.
[15:16] <ScottK-laptop> Urgh.
[15:16]  * ScottK-laptop tries again.
[15:17] <ScottK-laptop> Heya bddebian.
[15:20] <bddebian> Hi ScottK-laptop
[15:20] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[15:20] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
[15:22] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: You still around?
[15:22] <NCommander> Yeah
[15:22] <bddebian> ScottK-laptop: How is your DD coming along?
[15:23] <ScottK-laptop> bddebian: If I could figure out why libc can't be essential, I'd be in business.
[15:23] <ScottK-laptop> Still on T&S Part 1.
[15:23] <ScottK-laptop> I had a combination of two hardware failures the I didn't catch all the implications of for my backup strategy mean I had to try it again.
[15:24] <NCommander> ScottK, libc isn't essential because it doesn't need to be, and so it can be replaced if the soname is ever updated; because essential packages and their deps are automatically installed by debootstrap, its not needed
[15:24] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Thanks.
[15:24]  * ScottK-laptop scribbles notes.
[15:24] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, if I could get my DD to talk to me, I'd be in business with respect to becoming a DD
[15:24] <NCommander> he's been idle eight days on OFTC
[15:24] <NCommander> I think he's dead
[15:25] <broonie> NCommander: you're not supposed to hand out the answers!
[15:25] <broonie> But there's more to it than that, anyway.
[15:25]  * NCommander rereads ScottK's statement
[15:25] <NCommander> er
[15:25] <NCommander> You don't see any answers!
[15:25]  * NCommander hides
[15:25] <NCommander> broonie, ok, what else is there to it? (I only know enough about Essential in the way debootstrap works to gather packages)
[15:25] <azeem> NCommander: you're about a year idle on that patch you sent to bug-hurd, e.g.
[15:25] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I would like to have us have a ubuntu-motu and core-dev keyring packages in the archive and I was thinking you might be interested in using your new LP foo to help make one.
[15:26] <NCommander> azeem, er, well, the hurd moves sloely ;-)
[15:26] <ScottK-laptop> broonie: I already knew that much anyway.
[15:26] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, wait, what?
[15:26] <broonie> NCommander: Well, you need to depend on it anyway for the versioning.
[15:27] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Like the debian and debian-maintainer keyring packages, but for Ubuntu.
[15:27] <NCommander> Oh!
[15:27] <NCommander> Can't you simply grab the keyrings of ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-core-dev?
[15:27] <ScottK-laptop> Due to DNS cache poisoning, I find myself increasingly wanting to have the gpg keys of Ubuntu devs locally, just in case.
[15:28] <ScottK-laptop> From where?
[15:28] <NCommander> I have a script to do extactly this :-P
[15:28] <ScottK-laptop> I haven't thought about this much, maybe it's trivial.
[15:28] <NCommander> We used it with REVU
[15:28] <ScottK-laptop> Excellent.
[15:28] <NCommander> Hold on, I need to go fishing
[15:30] <NCommander> ScottK, its a python script
[15:30] <ScottK-laptop> Perfect.
[15:31] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, http://paste.ubuntu.com/38806/
[15:31] <NCommander> YOu'll have to tweak the GPG settings to your keys
[15:31]  * ScottK-laptop looks.
[15:31] <ScottK-laptop> Right.
[15:31] <NCommander> azeem, as for my patch to bug-hurd, er well ........ *no answer*
[15:31] <NCommander> bah :-P
[15:32] <NCommander> ScottK, BTW, ctrl-c doesn't quite work with this script since it only kills a single GPG instance, not the three or four which will be constantly running
[15:32] <ScottK-laptop> That should do it.  Thanks.
[15:32] <NCommander> (ugly, I know)
[15:43] <joaopinto> anyone here worked on the gambas2 package ?
[15:48] <DktrKranz> joaopinto: some QA efforts, but I know a guy who knows it very well
[15:49] <joaopinto> the examples are not working, and now tested a trivial db insert on mysql, and it's inserting a void value row
[15:49] <joaopinto> I will need to ask on their ML if that is a known bug fixed on a newer release
[15:49] <DktrKranz> gah, exactly the same problem he faced
[15:49] <joaopinto> if a trivial insert is broken, the package is broken :P
[15:49] <NCommander8> less
[15:50] <NCommander8> I seemingly come in duplicates
[15:50] <DktrKranz> joaopinto: he has a "workaround", even if it's definitely ugly
[15:50] <joaopinto> DktrKranz, but do you know if it was already fixed upstream ?
[15:51] <DktrKranz> joaopinto: AKAIK, it's something related to ubuntu/debian packaging
[15:51] <joaopinto> gambas is a nice option for VB lovers
[15:51] <DktrKranz> since compiling it from scratch shows no issues
[15:52] <emgent> we sync this package from debian
[15:52] <directhex> gambas is a vb6ish compiler?
[15:52] <joaopinto> directhex, not a compiler, a full IDE
[15:52] <directhex> joaopinto, righty. who actually wants to write new apps in VB? O_o
[15:52] <emgent> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gambas2/gambas2_2.7-1/changelog
[15:53] <sistpoty|work> hm... I could write a package manager with gambas *g*
[15:53] <joaopinto> directhex, I do  not want to start a flamewar, but as far as I Visual Studio is one of the most efficient RAD suites, and is nice to have an open source with similar features
[15:54] <directhex> joaopinto, monodevelop?
[15:54] <joaopinto> sistpoty|work, not a package manager, but probably a database interface
[15:54] <sistpoty|work> heh
[15:55] <joaopinto> directhex, I am also playing with monodevelop, I need to learn Mono/GTK#, Basic is an acquired language :P
[15:55] <directhex> i wonder whatever happened to getting mono-basic into debian
[15:55] <directhex> someone started packaging it, but there were license problems iirc
[15:57] <directhex> Matthias Jahn or Jelmer Vernooij were involved, whoever they may be
[15:58] <NCommander> Man, I need something to do
[15:59] <NCommander> Like something to package
[15:59] <directhex> NCommander, mono-basic!
[15:59] <NCommander> mono-basic?
[15:59] <directhex> mono-basic! for VB.NET!
[15:59] <NCommander> *twich*
[16:00] <joaopinto> NCommander, make sure the gambas2 package works as expected
[16:00] <joaopinto> I am checking the 2.8 version changelog, and there are some important bug fixes, not sure they are fixed on the debian 2.7 version
[16:01] <directhex> i wonder how many brains would explode on ubuntuforums if they noticed little things like "Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation." in the occasional /usr/share/doc/*/copyright
[16:01]  * NCommander decides to work on some FTBFSs
[16:01] <geser> NCommander: http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/dist/intrepid/arch/i386/failed is that enough for a start? :)
[16:02]  * NCommander switchs to the amd64 page
[16:02] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: One comment on your gpg script.  Please don't "#!/usr/bin/env python".  Use "#!/usr/bin/python" instead.
[16:02] <NCommander> THat script isn't mine :-P
[16:02] <NCommander> It was one of the old REVU scripts which was replaced
[16:02] <NCommander> However, its successor does that ;-)
[16:03] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[16:03] <NCommander> and requests for things tro be fixed?
[16:03] <NCommander> *any
[16:04] <ScottK-laptop> directhex: I haven't seen a lot of evidence on the forums of brains, so the explosion risk I judge as low.
[16:06] <directhex> ScottK-laptop, the size of explosions would be low. the number of explosions may be somewhat larger
[16:08] <NCommander> I should do some REVU hacking ...
[16:15] <joaopinto> NCommander, implement the email sending on comments :P
[16:15] <NCommander> sure, I can do that
[16:20] <stefanlsd> Can anyone give me some advice regarding the .desktop file.  I've created it - how do i get it to install.  I've added  dh_desktop  - but i see that is only done if it contains a MimeType.  Is there a standard way for doing this?
[16:26] <sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: install it to /usr/share/applications
[16:26] <sistpoty|work> (literally *g*)
[16:26] <sistpoty|work> or use .install file, or cp
[16:26] <stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: i've just created a .install file.   do i then use   dh_desktop-call?
[16:27] <sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: dh_install will install files from .install files
[16:28] <stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: kk. thanks. will try it
[16:28] <sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: dh_dekstop will only take care for postinst snippets to register the destkop file
[16:30] <salutis> hi guys, can anyone check my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=thinkingrock ? I fixed what I can and I don't know if there is something to do
[16:38] <Hew> Hey guys. Pidgin 2.5.0 has just been released. What is the appropriate process to get this into Ubuntu? I don't think it's needs-packaging, because that seems to be for new packages.
[16:39] <james_w> Hew: you are right, it's not needs-packaging
[16:40] <james_w> the first thing would be to file a wishlist bug against the package tagged "upgrade"
[16:40] <james_w> if you wish to do the work then you can prepare an updated package, attach the .diff.gz to the bug report and seek sponsorship
[16:41] <Hew> james_w: Sounds good. I'm not a packager myself, I was just wondering what the correct process was, but that seems simple enough. Thanks :-)
[16:46]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[17:08] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Your fixes to courier build twice in a row too.
[17:08] <NCommander> O_o?
[17:08] <NCommander> Neat
[17:08] <NCommander> Unexpected bonus
[17:08] <ScottK-laptop> Yeah, I was pleasantly suprised.
[17:09] <NCommander> er, I mean, I just do good work ;-)
[17:09]  * NCommander ducts
[17:09] <NCommander> jk :-)
[17:12] <stefanlsd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/259371 - looks like a cool app, but doesnt include on licensing / author information in the src download.  sourceforge says its under GPL. is this kinda thing ok to package?
[17:12] <ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: Is there a license file in the tarball?
[17:12] <stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: nope
[17:13] <ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: Then it'll get rejected by the archive admins.
[17:13] <ScottK-laptop> You might contact upstream and suggest they add it.
[17:13] <stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: kk. Is there a reference I can point upstream too regarding what should be in a GPL package?
[17:16] <ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-howto.html
[17:16] <ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: It lists a full copy of the license as a should, but for Ubuntu it's a hard requirement.
[17:16] <stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: thanks for finding that for me.  Will post to upstream
[17:18] <huats> hi guys
[17:20] <huats> I am packaging a new software, and I am noticing that the install target does not install the .pc file (thus it creates it in the src root dir). Can I simply install ? Or do I have to ask upstream to deal with that
[17:20] <huats> I'll tend for the earlier, but I'd rather ask :)
[17:39] <nullack> Hi MOTU's :) I have a quck question, can someone help me please
[17:40] <sebner> ping cody-somerville
[17:40] <cody-somerville> sebner, pong
[17:40] <sebner> nullack: don't ask, just ask
[17:40] <nullack> I need to be able to see what commands are used in building libdvdnav, not just the source, how do I do this on the packages.ubuntu? thanks
[17:40] <sebner> cody-somerville: congratulations! surely a dreamjob,hmm? (I hope I'm not that late)
[17:41] <cody-somerville> sebner, hehe, thanks :-)
[17:41] <ScottK-laptop> siretart: What is the license on the old REVU gpg key script?  It doesn't say and your LP project mentions both GPL and BSD.
[17:41] <sebner> cody-somerville: may I ask you got to canoncial (in that young age) ?
[17:41] <nullack> Ive got it here but I dont want the source, just the build command options
[17:41] <nullack> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libdvdnav4
[17:42] <cody-somerville> sebner, How I got to Canonical?
[17:42] <sebner> cody-somerville: yes ^^ (sry for my bad english)
[17:42] <cody-somerville> sebner, Well, I was at UDS and Mark approached me and asked me if I'd be interested in working for Canonical. Beyond that, I have no idea :-)
[17:43] <nullack> sebner: He wore a suit at UDS :) haha just joking
[17:43] <geser> nullack: look either at debian/rules in the .diff.gz or at the build log in Launchpad
[17:43] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: He went to UDS and wore a suit the entire time while the rest of us were dressed more like typical hackers.
[17:43] <sebner> hrhr
[17:43] <sebner> cody-somerville: pretty cool story :D
[17:43] <huats> +1 for the suit
[17:43] <nullack> geser: Will do Geser. Ill check out the buildlog
[17:43] <cody-somerville> :-]
[17:43] <nullack> I thought Cody looked good in his suit
[17:43] <nullack> Congrats by the way on your new opportunity Cody
[17:44] <cody-somerville> Thanks :]
[17:44] <laga> but why did you wear that suit?
[17:44] <laga> congrats, btw
[17:44]  * geser waits for the first call for pix :)
[17:44] <nullack> lol @ laga
[17:44]  * cody-somerville attempts to slowly slip out the back.
[17:45] <cody-somerville> emgent, ping
[17:53] <emgent> cody-somerville: i'm little bit busy, feel free to query me or mail me -- thanks
[17:54] <ScottK-laptop> cody-somerville: Send a self portrait in the suit with the mail.
[17:54] <ScottK-laptop> ;-)
[17:55] <cody-somerville> : P
[17:57] <sebner> cody-somerville: can I have a poster of you and the suit ( well, at least the suit) :P
[17:58] <nullack> OMG, you blokes are still going on about the suit. Cody isnt going to forgive me for starting it heh
[17:59] <ScottK-laptop> nullack: I didn't start about the suit because you commented.  I was there.
[18:00] <nullack> Good, Im off the hook :)
[18:21] <nullack> Is anyone online in MOTU that can comment on bug 250524?
[18:21] <nullack> Synaptic should depend on apt-xapian-index
[18:22] <nullack> Cody is doing it for Xubuntu but theres a small uprising about having it in Ubuntu as well
[18:23] <nullack> If space is the issue with Ubuntu Im happy to comment in the bug on that
[18:26] <slytherin> nullack: I think it should be recommendd instead of depends
[18:27] <geser> nullack: you might also want to talk with mvo about it (he's in #ubuntu-devel)
[18:27] <nullack> Ty, Ill do that.
[18:48] <SolarWar> hi, I packaged an application that fails to build on 64bit machines due to a minor casting error- the packaging is fine however, after fixing this casting error and sending the patch upstream, do i need to resubmit the package to review? if not, what is my next step?
[18:49] <mok0> SolarWar: did your package pass review?
[18:49] <SolarWar> yes it did
[18:49] <mok0> SolarWar: was it uploaded?
[18:49] <SolarWar> yes
[18:49] <SolarWar> the build failed after upload
[18:50] <mok0> SolarWar: you need to create a bug in LP, then attach a debdiff
[18:50] <siretart> ScottK-laptop: if it is written by me (and I think it is), it's BSD
[18:50] <siretart> ScottK-laptop: why do you ask?
[18:50] <ScottK-laptop> Because I think I may make use of it and I want to make sure it's marked correctly.
[18:50] <SolarWar> mok0, should i assign the bug to my self?
[18:51] <ScottK-laptop> SolarWar: If you are going to produce a fix, then yes.
[18:51] <ScottK-laptop> Once you've attached the debdiff, set it to Triaged and unassigned and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.
[18:51] <SolarWar> i see, will some one need to approve the diff?
[18:51] <SolarWar> ah
[18:51] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.  uus will do that.
[18:51] <SolarWar> whats uus?
[18:52] <mok0> SolarWar: yes, untill you've attached the debdiff, then you subscribe u-u-s
[18:52] <ScottK-laptop> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[18:52] <SolarWar> ahhh thank you very much, I will go fix this now :)
[18:52] <ScottK-laptop> It's a team of MOTU that sponsor stuff.
[18:52] <SolarWar> will this package make into intrepid still?
[18:52] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.  The package is in.
[18:53] <SolarWar> :) yay!
[18:53]  * SolarWar enjoys being the package + upstream author 
[18:53] <ScottK-laptop> Alternatively because you are upstream, fix it in a new upstream release and attach the .diff.gz for that to a bug.
[18:54] <mok0> Shouldn't that be ScottK+laptop?? ;-)
[18:58] <ScottK-laptop> Did you get your restricted data troubles worked out?
[19:05] <mok0> ScottK: The upstream author hasn't answered :-(
[19:05] <ScottK> OK.  Good luck with that.
[19:05] <mok0> I will give it a few days, then repackage the tarball
[19:07] <NCommander> ScottK, I assume your pleased with the courier fixes?
[19:14] <sebner> NCommander: freat work
[19:14] <sebner> NCommander: but isn't * Removed patch for maildrop (unneeded AFAIK, and breaks the build now) the same as  * Resolved FTBFS in maildrop/webmail?
[19:14] <NCommander> I wanted to be clear I zapped a patch
[19:14] <NCommander> (its not clear that there was a patch in the first line due to the damn inlining of patchs)
[19:15] <sebner> NCommander: ^^, I was the last uploader of courier :P
[19:15]  * NCommander takes a peek at the changelog
[19:16] <NCommander> YOur the debian upstream?
[19:16] <sebner> NCommander: last ubuntu uploader
[19:16] <NCommander> *phew*
[19:16] <sebner> NCommander: debian maintainer is hiding -.-
[19:16] <NCommander> nxvl is going to try and teach the upstream how to use dpatch
[19:16] <NCommander> (I can't see that going well ...)
[19:16] <NCommander> Considering upstream didn't even zap patches after they were merged upstream
[19:16] <sebner> NCommander: useless. DM is known to be non collaboratorive
[19:17]  * NCommander nomiates we remove this package from autosyncing
[19:17] <NCommander> It's really crufty
[19:17] <sebner> why autosync?
[19:17] <NCommander> Isn't there a blacklist you can put a package on to stop it from getting automatically synced/merged when there is a new upstream release?
[19:17] <sebner> NCommander: there is one but courier is a merge and  not a sync
[19:18] <NCommander> My main problem with that package is when I resolved the FTBFS
[19:18] <NCommander> the lintian output was longer then the ****** changelog
[19:18] <sebner> ^^
[19:18] <NCommander> Fixing that FTBFS was *fun*
[19:18] <NCommander> Just like ripping my eyes out of their sockets
[19:19] <sebner> ^^
[19:19] <NCommander> I'm suprised Debian doesn't require like a recertification on T&S every two-three yeras
[19:19] <NCommander> Probably do loads for unmaintainable packaging
[19:19] <sebner> wb apachelogger ;-)
[19:21] <NCommander> sebner, the 0.60-1ubuntu1 changelog has to be one of the longest ones in the archive
[19:21] <sebner> NCommander: unfortunately :(
[19:21] <NCommander> Three maintainers, 60+ changes, and lintian fixes across the board
[19:21] <NCommander> Did nxvl add a patch system so we can at least keep it cleanish?
[19:22] <sebner> NCommander: I don't think so
[19:22] <apachelogger> thx sebner
[19:22] <NCommander> well, there was just one left inlined
[19:22] <NCommander> and nxvl was nice enough to give me credit for the upload ^_^
[19:23] <sebner> hrhr
[19:23] <NCommander> sebner, did you take a crack at that FTBFS?
[19:25] <sebner> NCommander: I just did a testbuild and saw it but haven't got time to investigate further (though I suck a fixing FTBFS ;))
[19:26] <Laney> What's the significance of "0c2a" in a library package name?
[19:27] <james_w> Laney: it's from the C++ ABI transition
[19:27] <jorgenpt> Any way to find out why a package was removed from ubuntu repositories?
[19:27] <geser> Laney: it went twice through the C++ ABI transition
[19:27] <jorgenpt> libscw-0.1{-2,-dev}, specifically.
[19:27] <james_w> jorgenpt: you can find out from the removal bug report if you can find it
[19:27] <Laney> righto
[19:27] <jorgenpt> It existed in feisty and gutsy
[19:28] <james_w> jorgenpt: if it's still in Debian then there's another clue you can get from the blacklist
[19:28] <geser> jorgenpt: is the source pkg still in the archive?
[19:28] <geser> if not, check http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
[19:28] <jorgenpt> geser: How do I check that?
[19:29] <jorgenpt> It's only in debian etch (stable)
[19:29] <jorgenpt> ------------------- Reason -------------------
[19:29] <jorgenpt> (From Debian) RoM; obsolete; no rev-deps
[19:29] <geser> so you know already the source package name (scw)
[19:30] <geser> check https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scw to see that it's also removed from Ubuntu
[19:30] <jorgenpt> Ah, I guess so. :)
[19:30] <jorgenpt> In hardy it's "Superseded", what does that mean here?
[19:31] <james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=421224
[19:31] <geser> good question, I'd except "deleted" there
[19:36] <Laney> Anyone free for a quick review of goocanvasmm on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm - C++ bindings for goocanvas (cairo canvas widget for gtk+)
[19:38] <ScottK> sebner: Aren't you glad NCommander is now touched it last on Courier?
[19:38] <ScottK> NCommander: Yes.
[19:38] <ScottK> sebner: If Debian has inlined their patches, it doesn't really help us to put them in a patch system.
[19:39] <NCommander> O_o;
[19:39] <NCommander> Shoot
[19:39] <NCommander> If anything is broken
[19:39] <NCommander> I'll get the blame
[19:39] <sebner> sebner: courier is something nobody likes ,hmm?
[19:39] <sebner> NCommander: of course! :P
[19:39] <ScottK> NCommander: Yeah.  Giving you the "credit" wasn't pure gift.
[19:40] <NCommander> Bah
[19:40] <ScottK> Mind you, you deserve the credit for sorting it out.
[19:45] <ScottK> nhandler: dget usually works with launchpadlibrarian.  Why make it fail all the time?
[19:46] <nhandler> ScottK: Do you have a link to the bug you are talking about? I did it a while ago
[19:46] <ScottK> nhandler: I just saw it in intrepid-changes
[19:46] <nhandler> Yeah, I think it just got uploaded
[19:46] <ScottK> Bug #247172
[19:47] <ScottK> nhandler: Do you know who uploaded it?
[19:47] <nhandler> ScottK: It looks like Colin Watson uploaded it
[19:47] <ScottK> I see that.
[19:49] <nhandler> What would you suggest doing ScottK? Is there a certain instance where dget fails to download from launchpadlibrarian.net?
[19:50] <ScottK> Not sure. Could you discuss it with Colin and see.  I think forcing a failure where one isn't needed is wrong.  I can see pointing to dgetlp after a failure as a fallback.
[19:52] <nhandler> Yeah, I'll talk to Colin about it. We could also simply display a warning when the user tries to download from launchpadlibrarian.net using dget that says "If dget fails to download the files from launchpadlibrarian.net, you should try and use dgetlp, which is provided by ubuntu-dev-tools"
[19:53] <ScottK> That'd be fine.
[19:53] <nhandler> Before I upload a new debdiff, I'll see if Colin has a better idea about how to fix this bug.
[20:04] <Raybuntu> Can somebody tell me, what Debian Standards-Version and Debhelper version I should add for Intrepid packages?
[20:06] <ScottK> Raybuntu: Standards version should be 3.8.0 and the debhelper version should be the lowest version needed to build the package, but at least 4.  The file compat should have the major version number of debhelper you require.
[20:07] <slytherin> Raybuntu: Debian standards 3.8.0. debhelper 5 in my opinion.
[20:07] <slytherin> at least 5
[20:08] <Raybuntu> ok thx I added 3.8.0 and debhelper 6!
[20:18] <ScottK-laptop> slytherin: compat 4 is not deprecated.
[20:18] <ScottK-laptop> Raybuntu: Why 6?  Are there debhelper 6 features your package requires?
[20:19] <slytherin> ScottK-laptop: I thought it was
[20:19] <Raybuntu> no it packs on 5 too
[20:19] <Raybuntu> oh ok then I should chaned it to 5!
[20:20] <ScottK-laptop> slytherin: No.  1 - 3 are deprecated.  Packages at compat 3 need to be updated.
[20:21] <Rinchen> hello MOTU, anyone around with a few minutes to help me understand a debian python packaging issue?  Admittedly I'm not a packaging expert.
[20:21] <ScottK-laptop> Raybuntu: All supported Ubuntu versions have debhlper 5, so if it's 5, you needn't actually supply a version, just make compat 5.
[20:21] <ScottK-laptop> Rinchen: What's up?
[20:22] <Rinchen> Hiya ScottK
[20:22] <Rinchen> I think I have a flaw in my control or rules files that I can't seem to understand
[20:22] <Rinchen> I'm packaging this:  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rinchen/+junk/d-rats
[20:22] <Rinchen> It builds:  https://edge.launchpad.net/~rinchen/+archive
[20:22] <Rinchen> but when you install the .deb it doesn't install the python programs
[20:23] <Rinchen> (I'll paste)
[20:23] <Rinchen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/38888/
[20:23] <Rinchen> I had an issue with the rules file
[20:23] <Rinchen> I tried to do it as per the new debian policy and it kept insisting on needed the make -f in there so I put it back in
[20:23] <ScottK-laptop> The .deb is empty except copyright and changelog
[20:24] <Rinchen> Yes, that's my problem :-)
[20:24] <ScottK-laptop> Let me grab the package and have a look.
[20:24] <Rinchen> That would be wonderful if you could point me in the right direction
[20:27] <Raybuntu> When I create an source-package for Intrepid in hardy can i disregard the Lintian Warnings: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file intrepid & newer-standards-version 3.8.0 (current is 3.7.3)?
[20:28] <joaopinto> Raybuntu, sure
[20:28] <Raybuntu> ok thx
[20:30] <ScottK-laptop> Rinchen: setup.py in your tarball is empty, so cdbs has no idea what to do.
[20:30] <ScottK-laptop> Your rules are AFAICT fine.
[20:31] <Rinchen> ScottK-laptop, hmm interesting. Ok.  The original setup.py was windows-only (py2exe)
[20:31] <Rinchen> ScottK-laptop, time for me to figure out how to write a setup.py I guess. :-)   Thanks for the sanity check.
[20:31] <ScottK-laptop> Or, more precisely you removed the contents of if in packaging it.
[20:32] <Rinchen> ScottK-laptop, the upstream dev just hands out the tarball for Ubuntu folks. I wanted to see if I could help him package it. I'm still learning how to package python items.  Good experience for me.
[20:33] <Rinchen> Thanks again for your help.
[20:33] <ScottK-laptop> Right.  The setup.py he provides won't help you much
[20:33] <ScottK-laptop> Rinchen: Also, Ubuntu tends to prefer pycentral to pysupport.
[20:33] <Rinchen> ok, I'll switch that too.
[20:34] <ScottK-laptop> It's not critical, but doko might look at you funny at the next meeting of the secret Canonical conspiracy if you don't.
[20:34] <ScottK-laptop> ;-)
[20:34] <Rinchen> lol
[20:44] <Raybuntu> Can anyone make a quick review on my Package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=get-you
[20:45] <Laney> Raybuntu: What does it do?
[20:46] <Raybuntu> I just wanna know if it's good? I tried to build and it works! I just wanna know if i forgot something
[20:48] <cody-somerville> Raybuntu, there are several problems with it
[20:49] <Raybuntu> What problems?
[20:51] <cody-somerville> Raybuntu, Package synopsis and package long description lines shouldn't exceed 80 characters.
[20:52] <Raybuntu> ok i will change it thx
[20:54] <Raybuntu> is there anything else wrong?
[20:55] <zul> whois the wine maintainer?
[20:55] <ScottK> zul: YokoZar
[20:55] <zul> YokoZar: ping
[20:55] <zul> thanks
[20:56] <Rinchen> Has anyone used http://code.google.com/p/debianpackagemaker/ before? It's available on getdebs.  Wanted to know if it was evil or should I give it a spin for PPAs.
[20:59] <stefanlsd> What are the options we use when building a diff for a patch file.  diff -u  is def one...
[20:59] <ScottK-laptop> I always use -ruN
[21:00] <stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: thanks. easy to remember also
[21:00] <jpds> I use: -Nurp
[21:01] <ScottK-laptop> Also easy to remember.
[21:01] <NCommander> I usually use -uEawb
[21:01] <NCommander> :-)
[21:01] <NCommander> and sometimes -d
[21:01] <ramses-sv> #ubuntu-es
[21:01] <NCommander> Hrm
[21:01] <jpds> ramses-sv: Con: /join
[21:01] <NCommander> I think I can spell deweb with those options :-)
[21:02] <NCommander> -dewabE
[21:02] <cody-somerville> I always use -Nur because I think "run backwards and the first letter is always capitalized"
[21:02] <ramses-sv> jpds; I'm sorry :)
[21:02] <jpds> ramses-sv: No pasa nada. :)
[21:03] <stefanlsd> im looking at upgrading pidgin. i think im reaching here. but its a good learning excercise anyways
[21:03] <ma10> any xulrunner or swt-gtk expert here? I'm trying to debug a crash (bug 259533)
[21:14] <stefanlsd> wow. pidgin is actually building
[21:14] <NCommander> yay
[21:14] <LaserJock> nhandler: so was there a particular reason for adding ubuntu-dev-tools as a Recommends of devscripts?
[21:14] <jpds> nhandler: Why did you add u-d-t to devscripts recommends when u-d-t is in universe?
[21:15] <jpds> LaserJock: For dgetlp.
[21:15] <LaserJock> for goodness sakes, why?
[21:16] <LaserJock> dget works just fine
[21:16] <nhandler> jpds and LaserJock: I did the patch a while ago. I probably added it because we are telling the user to use dgetlp.
[21:16] <nhandler> LaserJock: Not in all cases
[21:16] <jpds> bug #247172 LaserJock
[21:16] <asomething> Bug #247172
[21:16] <nhandler> I am planning on talking with Colin Watson about a better way to patch it
[21:16]  * jpds gets some popcorn and wattches "the beating".
[21:17] <LaserJock> I don't see why it's needed
[21:17] <nhandler> One solution ScottK and I came up with would be to simply suggest the user try dgetlp if dget fails to download from launchpadlibrarian
[21:17] <LaserJock> when do we give out librarian links to .dscs ?
[21:18] <ScottK> LaserJock: Anytime you try to grab a source package via a Launchpad link.
[21:18] <LaserJock> there's a much more simple solution available
[21:18] <LaserJock> ScottK: which links?
[21:18] <LaserJock> the source pages don't use librarian
[21:18] <Laney> The only dscs from LP that don't work from me are PPA ones
[21:18] <Laney> I think those use librarian
[21:19] <LaserJock> those should also work, if they don't it's a bug
[21:19]  * ScottK too, but regular archive .dscs use librarian too.
[21:19] <LaserJock> ScottK: where?
[21:20]  * ScottK gets an example.
[21:20] <ScottK> I see.
[21:20] <jpds> nhandler: As Recommends get installed too, we'd have to move u-d-t to main.
[21:21] <LaserJock> ok, I do see it in the PPA, but that should be a bug
[21:21] <ScottK> For the regular archive there's a non-librarian path that 303's to librarian that isn't present in PPAs.
[21:21] <LaserJock> nhandler: it also adds 70 new packages to install
[21:21] <nhandler> jpds: Another option would be to simply suggest u-d-t
[21:21] <ScottK> Which is fine.
[21:21] <LaserJock> ScottK: right, I had then put in dget'able links for source packages
[21:21] <LaserJock> *them
[21:21] <ScottK> LaserJock: Which is a great help.
[21:22] <LaserJock> we just need to have PPAs work too
[21:22] <ScottK> Dunno.
[21:22] <ScottK> Use dget to get official source packages easy.  Use dget to get PPA crack doesn't work.  Bug or feature?
[21:22] <nhandler> However, if we move u-d-t to suggests, the script should not die when the user tries to use a launchpadlibrarian url. It should only warn them that it might not work (or tell them to use dgetlp only on an error)
[21:22] <Laney> nhandler: The proper fix is to make LP work
[21:22] <LaserJock> but pulling in 70 more packages and some from Universe seems like overkill :-)
[21:23] <ScottK> I'm certainly not writing a MIR for u-d-t.
[21:23] <LaserJock> nhandler: you can have it die and tell them to use dgetlp from ubuntu-dev-tools
[21:23] <cprov> ScottK: missing-feature, actually
[21:23] <nhandler> ScottK: I don't think getting u-d-t into main is the right solution
[21:23] <ScottK> If it's just a PPA, then I htink it's clearly not our problem.
[21:23] <nhandler> LaserJock: That is what it currently does
[21:24] <Laney> But not all librarian dscs are broken, are they?
[21:24] <LaserJock> nhandler: then why depend on ubuntu-dev-tools? people can figure that out for themselves
[21:24] <ScottK> cprov: At least the PPA source packages are still signed so I can verify it hasn't been tampered with.  Of course that has other problems.
[21:24] <ScottK> Laney: Yes.
[21:24] <Laney> Yes they are or yes you're agreeing with me?
[21:24] <LaserJock> Laney: if it comes from librarian it won't work because the URLs are different for each file in the source package
[21:24] <ScottK> The "problem" is that PPA packages don't have usable URLs.
[21:25] <nhandler> LaserJock: It isn't a depends, it is a recommends. And we can easily move this to a suggests
[21:25] <Laney> Ah yes, I understand
[21:25] <ScottK> nhandler: Since recommends are installed by default, it causes the same problem.
[21:25] <LaserJock> nhandler: but in Intrepid Recommends = a installed dependency so it needs to be taken into account
[21:25] <nhandler> Yes, I understand that now ScottK and LaserJock.
[21:26] <cprov> ScottK: I think 'dgetable' PPA urls and signed archives are orthogonal features. Don't you agree ?
[21:26] <cprov> ScottK: we can easily implement the former in the next cycle.
[21:26] <ScottK> cprov: Yes.  But I think signed archives are far more important.
[21:27] <ScottK> cprov: Personally, I won't use PPA until it's fixed.
[21:27] <cprov> ScottK: agreed.
[21:27] <ScottK> I was sort of OK with it until the current round of DNS cache poisoning attacks.
[21:29] <LaserJock> nhandler: anyway, it's not a big deal, I just wanted to point out that it pulls in an awful lot of new packages and the dget issue should probably be handled differently
[21:29] <nhandler> LaserJock: You are correct, u-d-t should definitely not be recommended.
[21:29] <cprov> ScottK: yes, awful, signed-ppas will be prioritised accordingly.
[21:30] <nhandler> And IMO, the best way to fix this issue would be to get dget to work with launchpadlibrarian
[21:30] <ScottK> nhandler: You have it exactly backwards.
[21:30] <stefanlsd> help about - Pidgin 2.5.0
[21:30] <nhandler> ScottK: Are we able to submit patches for Launchpad/Launchpadlibrarian?
[21:30] <stefanlsd> :)
[21:30] <Laney> No(t yet)
[21:31] <LaserJock> nhandler: the issue has been fixed for non-PPA packages, cprov has said that it's a bug they can work on for PPAs
[21:31] <ScottK> nhandler: No.
[21:32] <ScottK> nhandler: We can't chase every proprietary system that does dumb stuff.
[21:32] <nhandler> LaserJock: I was not aware cprov was a canonical employee.
[21:32] <Laney> nhandler: /whois cprov ;)
[21:32] <nhandler> Laney: I just did that after your last message :)
[21:33] <ScottK> nhandler: Are you going to feel bad if I revert this change?
[21:34] <nhandler> ScottK: Not at all. I did this change over a month ago. I have learned a lot since then.
[21:35] <LaserJock> ScottK: perhaps just moving ubuntu-dev-tools to Suggests would suffice?
[21:35] <LaserJock> nhandler: did your patch actually call dgetlp ?
[21:35] <nhandler> LaserJock: No it did not
[21:35] <ScottK> That and remove the hack that would make get cry.
[21:35] <nhandler> ScottK: We could change the 'die' to a 'print' or 'warn'
[21:35] <ScottK> LaserJock: I don't think having a workaround for a temporary thing like this is appropriate.
[21:36] <LaserJock> yeah, I was just thinking about that
[21:36] <LaserJock> it should be fairly temporary
[21:37] <ScottK> I've about got it done.
[21:42] <stefanlsd> Anyone feel like testing Pidgin 2.5.0 - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/259453
[21:43] <ScottK> Reverted.
[21:44] <nhandler> Thanks ScottK
[21:55] <nhandler> ScottK: Is there any reason to even suggest u-d-t?
[21:55] <stefanlsd> Replaces: pidgin (<< 1:2.1.1-2)  - what does the << in this case mean?
[21:56] <ScottK> nhandler: Yes, because u-d-t in many ways extends devscripts for Ubuntu specific scripts, so it's generally a good suggestions.
[21:56] <nxvl> ScottK: courier is fixed!! thanks to NCommander
[21:56] <LaserJock> ScottK: I agree
[21:56] <ScottK> nxvl: Yes.  It even builds twice in a row.
[21:56]  * NCommander wakes up
[21:56] <NCommander> Man, I fix one package, and its like I make people happy
[21:56] <NCommander> Weird
[21:57] <nxvl> NCommander: that's why i love Ubuntu Community
[21:57] <ScottK> You gotta find happiness where you can find it.
[21:57] <ScottK> From another (non-Ubuntu) list: "I give up. Hire someone with basic unix/linux knowledge."
[21:58]  * DktrKranz will be happy when someone will push not FTBFSing gcl + axiom
[21:58] <NCommander> ??
[21:58]  * nxvl points to NCommander 
[21:58] <NCommander> ScottK, O_O;?
[21:58] <NCommander> uh oh
[21:58]  * NCommander activates stealth mode
[21:58] <ScottK-decoy> Who's this NCommander?
[21:59] <LaserJock> DktrKranz: dude, I would owe that person a drink ;-)
[21:59] <ScottK> Of course now I know all the channels we have in common since I highlight on ScottK
[21:59] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, well... I have recipe for gcl, but axiom would still fail
[21:59] <NCommander> togl
[21:59] <NCommander> *rofl
[22:00] <NCommander> at least on freenode
[22:00] <LaserJock> DktrKranz: yeah, it's a beast
[22:00] <NCommander> LaserJock, point me to your FTBFS log
[22:00] <LaserJock> DktrKranz: Debian was talking about maybe switching away from gcl for axiom but I'm not sure how that'll go
[22:00] <LaserJock> I believe the axiom maintainer is also the gcl maintainer :-)
[22:01] <DktrKranz> camm maguire, yes
[22:01] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, as I wrote in axiom FTBFS bug, compile errors are due to changes included in a gcl revision (-36 IIRC)
[22:02]  * LaserJock has somewhat of a dislike of gcl
[22:02] <DktrKranz> I tried to revert them all, but there are still issues
[22:02] <DktrKranz> and I think I've stressed PPA too much with gcl testing :(
[22:02] <NCommander> link?
[22:03] <NCommander> (I'll look to see if I can fix)
[22:03] <LaserJock> I remember wgrant going through like 1000+ lines trying to find a bad patch in gcl so we could fix another package
[22:03] <DktrKranz> NCommander, bug 163603
[22:03] <NCommander> ugh
[22:03] <NCommander> It's a hardy FTBFS?
[22:04] <DktrKranz> NCommander, still happens in intrepid
[22:04] <NCommander> What a beast
[22:04] <NCommander> (axiom)
[22:05] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, see my comment #3 and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16838329/gcl_2.6.7-42ubuntu1.4_source.changes for possible solutions.
[22:05] <sebner> DktrKranz: congratulations old boy :P
[22:05] <NCommander> so both gcl and axiom FTBFS?
[22:05] <NCommander> Or is one causing the other?
[22:06] <DktrKranz> NCommander, gcl is broken itself
[22:06] <NCommander> how is it broken?
[22:06] <DktrKranz> NCommander, long time FTBFS
[22:06] <NCommander> (lisp in general is broken, but be more specific)
[22:06] <DktrKranz> gcl_2.6.7-42ubuntu1.4 "fixes" it, but axiom doesn't like ti
[22:06] <DktrKranz> *it
[22:07] <NCommander> How did it fixs
[22:07] <NCommander> Bah
[22:07] <NCommander> I'll fix it
[22:07] <NCommander> rightly
[22:07] <NCommander> Give me the short version of this packages hisotry
[22:07] <sebner> DktrKranz: \o/ \o/ \o/
[22:08] <DktrKranz> aloha sebner
[22:08] <sebner> DktrKranz: congratulations ;P
[22:08] <DktrKranz> NCommander, just keep in mind axiom FTBFS with gcl 2.6.7-34 and newer
[22:09] <DktrKranz> tested ;)
[22:09] <DktrKranz> sebner, danke
[22:09] <NCommander> *twich*
[22:09] <NCommander> wait
[22:09] <NCommander> -34?!?!?!?!?!
[22:09] <DktrKranz> -34
[22:09] <sebner> DktrKranz: thumbs up :)
[22:09] <NCommander> I
[22:09] <NCommander> I
[22:09] <DktrKranz> with -33 axiom compiles
[22:09] <NCommander> ....
[22:09] <NCommander> o_o;
[22:09] <sebner> NCommander: by me xD
[22:09] <DktrKranz> with -34 and newer... no
[22:09] <NCommander> O.o;
[22:10]  * LaserJock hands NCommander some pills
[22:10] <NCommander> how specifically does axiom FTBFS with -34?
[22:10] <LaserJock> to calm the convulsions ;-)
[22:10] <sebner> DktrKranz: emmet said: Main sponsor for a long time ... for me? ^^
[22:10] <sebner> LaserJock: xD
[22:10] <NCommander> well?
[22:10] <DktrKranz> sebner, probably ;)
[22:10] <sebner> hrhr
[22:11] <DktrKranz> NCommander, I'll grab log... just a sec
[22:11] <NCommander> I found one, but it looks out of date
[22:12] <DktrKranz> NCommander, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16369974/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-lpia.axiom_20050901-9ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is accurate
[22:12] <DktrKranz> but I have more on my PPA :)
[22:12]  * NCommander winces
[22:13] <NCommander> what have you done w.r.t to debugging this
[22:13] <NCommander> What is causign code.o to not exist?
[22:13] <DktrKranz> NCommander, there's a (closed) bug on BTS too, but not so useful
[22:13] <DktrKranz> well... I did pbuilder login and installed several gcl versions, -33 worked, -34 no more
[22:14] <NCommander> doesn't always mean the issue is with gcl
[22:14] <DktrKranz> I just changed that
[22:14] <NCommander> ???
[22:14] <DktrKranz> remaining packages were not touched
[22:15] <NCommander> ok, Axiom is compiling
[22:16]  * NCommander looks at axiom's changelog
[22:16] <NCommander> I might have found a possible cause
[22:16] <NCommander> Wow, this package hasn't been updated in two years
[22:16] <DktrKranz> NCommander, see also debian 458878
[22:17] <DktrKranz> but I'm unable to reproduce it on sud
[22:17] <DktrKranz> *sid
[22:17] <doctormo> Hmm, lots of people keep on asking me to get my package in the repos; although a week of REVU has done nothing. any advice?
[22:17] <NCommander> yeah
[22:17] <NCommander> That ain't happy
[22:18] <NCommander> DktrKranz, I got a new issue for you
[22:18] <NCommander> >Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[22:18] <joaopinto> doctormo, get into the waiting queue :P
[22:18] <DktrKranz> NCommander, welcome aboard! ;)
[22:18] <DktrKranz> I received *tons*
[22:18] <NCommander> That is a common issue I take it?
[22:19] <NCommander> wait
[22:19] <NCommander> It randomly segfaults?!
[22:19] <DktrKranz> with gcl/axiom, very common
[22:19] <NCommander> o_O;
[22:19] <NCommander> o.o;
[22:19] <NCommander> That's screwed up
[22:20] <DktrKranz> it *shouldn't* segfault if compiled with "--enable-locbfd --disable-statsysbfd"
[22:20] <DktrKranz> but I didn't investigate
[22:20] <NCommander> on axiom or gcl?
[22:20] <DktrKranz> gcl for sure
[22:20] <NCommander> It didn't segfault the second time around
[22:20] <NCommander> It
[22:20] <NCommander> ... has a ****ing race condition
[22:20] <NCommander> Oh ...
[22:21] <DktrKranz> cool!
[22:21] <NCommander> Please, tell me these patchs are not inlined
[22:21] <NCommander> -rw-r--r--  1 mcasadevall mcasadevall  14M 2008-05-02 22:16 gcl_2.6.7-36.1.diff.gz
[22:21] <NCommander> ...
[22:21] <NCommander> O_O;
[22:22] <NCommander> 14M FOR A FREAKING DIFF FILE?
[22:22] <NCommander> THATS BIGGER THAN THE SOURCE ITSELF
[22:22] <doctormo> joaopinto: that seems a little odd, it's not like I've made a patch of some existing thing.
[22:22] <DktrKranz> NCommander, hehe... go out for a walk when "debuild -S && dput" ;)
[22:23] <joaopinto> doctormo, I have a package waiting for review for about 1 month
[22:23] <NCommander> It only took two minutes
[22:23] <NCommander> For the
[22:23] <NCommander> love of
[22:23] <NCommander> Ugh
[22:23] <DktrKranz> NCommander, *please* do not look at gclcvs, then :)
[22:23] <NCommander> It is 70MB ... incompressed
[22:23] <NCommander> Oh
[22:23] <NCommander> For
[22:23] <NCommander> the
[22:23] <NCommander> love
[22:24] <NCommander> of god
[22:24] <doctormo> joaopinto: are they still outstanding?
[22:24] <NCommander> Ok
[22:24] <NCommander> That does it
[22:24]  * NCommander deletes what's here
[22:24]  * NCommander starts froms cratch
[22:24] <NCommander> This package is non-maintainable
[22:24] <NCommander> It should be removed from the archive in its current condition
[22:25] <joaopinto> doctormo, I am assuming that most of the packages will not get into Intrepid, UVF is getting closer
[22:25] <DktrKranz> NCommander, it seems to me Debian is another upstream, camm is a gcl developer, AFAIK
[22:25] <NCommander> Yeah
[22:26] <NCommander> I discovered that
[22:26] <DktrKranz> and, since they didn't release a major release, changes are in .diff.gz
[22:26] <NCommander> Yeah
[22:26] <NCommander> That's just plain sick
[22:26] <DktrKranz> just minor and insignificant :)
[22:26] <NCommander> Not really
[22:26] <DktrKranz> NCommander, also keep in mind if you push gcl, rdependent package *must* be rebuilt
[22:27] <NCommander> This trainwreck is unmaintable
[22:27] <DktrKranz> heh, I spent some days on it ;)
[22:27] <NCommander> This is a case of delete and restart
[22:27] <NCommander> OH GOD, HE PATCHES THE CVS FILES
[22:28]  * NCommander actually is debating filing a removal request for this package
[22:28] <NCommander> By defintion this is buggy and unmaintable
[22:28] <LaserJock> dude, look at the rdepends though
[22:29] <NCommander> I realize that
[22:29] <NCommander> No
[22:29] <DktrKranz> IIRC, there are five packages which rdepend on gcl, and they have issues
[22:29] <NCommander> I'm going to simply work from a knowning working
[22:29] <NCommander> gcl
[22:29] <NCommander> and throw out this mess
[22:30] <NCommander> upstream seems to have stalled
[22:31] <slangasek> why are you going to do that instead of talking to the Debian maintainer?
[22:31] <NCommander> :-P
[22:31] <NCommander> I don't think there is hope for the maintainer
[22:32] <NCommander> (well, I need to figure out really how bad this is before I do anything, then I'll ask him to help me figure out what the heck is what)
[22:32] <wgrant> Well, I think they're likely to do something about it soon, as Lenny has to release eventuall.
[22:32] <NCommander> The diff file is 70MB uncompressed
[22:32] <wgrant> +y
[22:32] <NCommander> I see at least six or seven configure scripts
[22:32] <NCommander> (full configure scripts) atuom4te.cache folders
[22:32] <NCommander> Ugh
[22:32] <DktrKranz> wgrant, debian seems not affected, at least I wasn't able to reproduce FTBFS
[22:33] <slangasek> gcl is a massively difficult package, regardless of how it's currently being maintained; unless you have some particular long-term attachment to gcl, I don't see why Ubuntu would want to be saddled with your complete repackaging of gcl, which we then can't go to the Debian maintainer for help with?
[22:33] <wgrant> Lovely.
[22:33] <NCommander> meh
[22:33] <NCommander> I dunno
[22:33] <NCommander> But this is just hurting my brain
[22:33] <wgrant> I touched gcl once a couple of years ago to fix a big Dapper maxima bug, and that has taught me never to go near it again.
[22:34] <NCommander> why ... why does gcl have binutils from debian in its source code?
[22:34] <NCommander> why?!
[22:35] <NCommander> *sigh*
[22:35] <NCommander> Ok, it doesn't compile out of the box
[22:36] <NCommander> ok
[22:36]  * NCommander inhales and exhales
[22:37] <doctormo> joaopinto: maybe it's time for an alternate repo, the offical one is glogged
[22:38] <joaopinto> doctormo, well, you can use a PPA until the package is accepted, hopefully on Intrepid+1
[22:38] <wgrant> Or get it in Debian.
[22:38] <wgrant> That's going to make everybody happier.
[22:38] <NCommander> DktrKranz, have you tried to talk with upstream?
[22:39] <emgent> hello
[22:39] <joaopinto> wgrant, is that a guarantee that it will be reviewed/accepted faster than it does on REVU ?
[22:39] <wgrant> Starting alternate repositories is a sure way to get induce a huge amount of animosity between you and the development community, and is likely to remove much chance of many of us reviewing your packages.
[22:39] <wgrant> s/get //
[22:40] <wgrant> No. Nothing is guaranteed in situations like this.
[22:40] <wgrant> That's not how community-based distributions work.
[22:40] <DktrKranz> NCommander, not yet. I was trying to figure out if it was a ubuntu specific issue (toolchain, or some) or something in gcl/axiom itself, but answer is not clear to me
[22:40] <joaopinto> wgrant, well, so you are suggesting to have extra effort, and eventually get into the same issue :)
[22:41] <NCommander> DktrKranz, if the compiler is RANDOMLY segfaulting, by design thats an upstream issue.
[22:41] <NCommander> (unless its an Ubuntu specific patch causing it, which there are none of)
[22:41] <wgrant> joaopinto: But then we don't have to maintain it like we do with all of the other drive-by uploads we have. And Debian would get it too. Everybody wins.
[22:41] <DktrKranz> my main question is why in debian never segfaults
[22:42] <DktrKranz> (on my box, at least)
[22:42] <joaopinto> wgrant, so why not just shutdown REVU :) ?
[22:42] <wgrant> joaopinto: Oh, I'd like to.
[22:43] <NCommander> DktrKranz, are you running amd64 or i386?
[22:43] <DktrKranz> i386
[22:43] <NCommander> From what I can gather, it only FTBFS on Debian on amd64
[22:43] <NCommander> And if thats the case, its possible the issue is that gcl is not 64-bit clean :-/
[22:44] <joaopinto> it is not very nice to get a "Try Debian" after spending time into getting a package into Ubuntu, as per the documented processes
[22:44] <DktrKranz> so, why it does with ubuntu? does it dislike debian derivatives?
[22:45] <wgrant> DktrKranz: There's no 100_melt_ubuntu_developers_minds.dpatch?
[22:45] <DktrKranz> wgrant, I removed it... it has typos
[22:46] <NCommander> I
[22:46] <NCommander> Oh, god
[22:46] <NCommander> He upgraded binutils
[22:46] <NCommander> THat's why the patch file is 70MB
[22:46] <NCommander> O______________________________O;
[22:47] <LaserJock> NCommander: take a breath :-)
[22:47]  * NCommander inhales
[22:47] <NCommander> *twichs*
[22:47] <NCommander> why does it build its own binutils
[22:47] <jpds> NCommander: It's not the end of the world.
[22:48] <DktrKranz> oh... do not forget bug 227878 too ;)
[22:48] <DktrKranz> emacs related
[22:48] <NCommander> This might be even too much for me
[22:50] <NCommander> omh
[22:50] <NCommander> *omg
[22:50] <NCommander> this package requires gettext
[22:50] <NCommander> The check for gettext is commented it, and it compiled the one shipping in binutils
[22:51] <joaopinto> NCommander, are you actually going to fix it, or just complaining :P ?
[22:51] <NCommander> I don't even know where to begin
[22:52] <NCommander> Its disrupting my ability to code
[22:52] <DktrKranz> joaopinto, fix it without complaining is almost impossible, trust me :)
[22:52] <NCommander> joaopinto, seriously, download this source package, and take alook
[22:53] <NCommander> DktrKranz, why are you trying to fix this package?
[22:53] <DktrKranz> NCommander, basically QA
[22:53] <NCommander> (beyond the fact that FTBFS are evil, most people would give up looking at this horror)
[22:53] <DktrKranz> I've no interest in axiom/maxima/gcl itself/whatever
[22:55] <joaopinto> NCommander, no thanks, I am looking into gambas2,it's  more interesting :P
[22:55] <NCommander> no
[22:56] <NCommander> There can't be a package worse than this
[22:56] <DktrKranz> joaopinto, my gambas2 guy replied to me
[22:56] <NCommander> My mind would go boom
[22:56] <joaopinto> DktrKranz, that mysql issue is not fixed on the intrepid package yet
[22:56] <DktrKranz> joaopinto, he told me 2.8 svn 1503 fixed some mysql issues
[22:58] <joaopinto> I don't believe they would keep a release with such a critical bug, I am building from source now
[22:58] <joaopinto> hum, 2.8 is building on amd64
[22:58] <NCommander> What's wrong with gambas2?
[22:58] <joaopinto> hey, and it runs
[22:59] <DktrKranz> joaopinto, if you're successful, maybe we can fix it in intrepid as well
[22:59] <joaopinto> NCommander, a mysql insert, is inserting duplicated invalid records
[22:59] <joaopinto> NCommander, and the examples do no run, just display an error
[22:59] <joaopinto> but I don't care about the examples for now
[23:00] <joaopinto> DktrKranz, well, the good news about 2.8 is that it runs on amd64 bits, the last time I have check Intrepid it was not installable their, I mean, using apt
[23:00] <DktrKranz> joaopinto, I asked to remove amd64 from hardy (2.0 was not 64bit ready) 2.8 should be fine
[23:01] <joaopinto> erm, I am getting the mysql bug from the original source
[23:01] <joaopinto> time to file a bug report upstream
[23:01] <DktrKranz> oh... still not fixed then
[23:02] <joaopinto> or better, since I am new to it, asking on the users ml, to make sure I am not doing something really dumb :P
[23:02] <DktrKranz> time to go and fix gcl... erm... sleep :)
[23:02] <DktrKranz> c u
[23:35] <YokoZar> zul: ping back
[23:37] <directhex> what's the correct way to document use of bootstrapping binaries in a source package?
[23:38] <LaserJock> anybody know of any good tools for submitting bugs to debian other than reportbug/submittodebian ?
[23:38] <azeem> directhex: is that allowed these days?
[23:38] <azeem> LaserJock: mutt
[23:38] <azeem> or rng
[23:38] <directhex> azeem, what's the alternative?
[23:38] <LaserJock> azeem: was rather trying to avoid mutt but ... ;-)
[23:38] <azeem> directhex: I thought the buildd admins were supposed to bootstrap those
[23:39] <azeem> but that was a couple of years ago
[23:39] <directhex> hm, i should check with the debian people, they're smart.
[23:39] <azeem> they can upload binary packages
[23:39] <LaserJock> lol
[23:39] <LaserJock> directhex: depends on what you mean by "debian people" as there are several here, including azeem ;-)
[23:40] <directhex> the last person to pass judgement on this one was joerg@debian.org. i'm trying to bring it back from abandonment
[23:41] <azeem> "it"?
[23:42] <directhex> mono-basic. it was rejected on two counts, one for including dodgy unredistributable code in orig.tar.gz, one for including binaries
[23:42] <directhex> the former is easily fixed, it's only a unit test
[23:43] <azeem> how many arches are supported?
[23:46] <directhex> azeem, it's architecture:all, but mono in debian is only for amd64, arm, armel, i386, ia64, powerpc, s390, sparc
[23:47] <azeem> what kind of binaries does it have then?
[23:48] <directhex> bytecode assemblies. sorta like java .class files
[23:53] <tgm4883_laptop> If a MOTU has some time.  I'd appreciate a REVU on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythbuntu-log-grabber
[23:55] <azeem> directhex: I guess on Debian you could just bootstrap yourself and upload an Arch: all packages Build-Depending on itself
[23:55] <azeem> but dunno, maybe joerg@d.o would reject that as well
[23:58] <directhex> azeem, that appears to be the way it works in debian. messy and vile, but functional
[23:58] <directhex> ish. maybe.