[01:21] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: there are some magic .so files you need to delete
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> plugins
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> Don't know where though
[02:18]  * JontheEchidna is trapped in windows
[02:19]  * Jucato gets a mallet
[02:19] <Jucato> is it made of glass?
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> nope, somebody broke pam
[02:21] <Jucato> aw..
[02:21]  * JontheEchidna is not amused
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> how does one break *pam*?
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> Doesn't it do it's job well enough already? Why mess around with it?
[02:21] <claydoh> I just recovered from that
[02:22] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: there is an updated version, if you can manage to get it
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> network manager also decided it wouldn't work
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> else I could recover by booting in recovery mode :/
[02:23] <claydoh> I rebooted to recovery mode and ran apt to update, thus reducing my blood pressure :)
[02:23] <claydoh> iwconfig worked nice :)
[02:24] <JontheEchidna> heh, maybe I should give it another go
[02:24] <JontheEchidna> last time I has similar problems networking wouldn't work at all in windows either
[02:24] <JontheEchidna> but it does this time
[02:24]  * JontheEchidna shrugs
[02:24] <claydoh> iwconfig ethX essid myrouter
[02:25] <JontheEchidna> be back hopefully soon...
[02:25] <claydoh> good luck
[02:48] <JontheEchidna> :(
[02:48] <JontheEchidna> this sucks
[02:49] <JontheEchidna> What would cause a wired connection not to connect?
[02:50] <jjesse> will systems settings have an "administrator" button like kde 3 to put in your admin password?
[02:50] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: boot into recovery console or livecd, make the change mentioned in bug 259867
[02:50] <jjesse> working on kubuntu -docs
[02:50] <yuriy> this wasted almost an hour for me because chrooting wouldn't work right
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> well
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> I'm having reoccuring nm problems
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> and I can't fix it the way I did before
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> and damn windows sure likes to access the harddrive
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> oh, others are having internet connection problems
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> that's somewhat relieving
[02:54] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: this http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/meh ?
[02:54] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: yes
[02:55] <JontheEchidna> um
[02:55] <JontheEchidna> how the heck will I be able to remember all that?
[02:55] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: just add the permit....so line if it's not there
[02:56] <yuriy> and get rid of any deny all line
[02:56] <JontheEchidna> just add the session required line to etc/pam.d?
[02:56] <JontheEchidna> and remove the deny line?
[02:57] <yuriy> yeah
[02:57] <yuriy> /etc/pam.d/common-session
[02:58] <yuriy> session required                        pam_permit.so
[03:04] <JontheEchidna> yay
[03:11] <jjesse> why does it seem the names of applications in either kickoff or the kmenu seem to change every freakin release?
[03:12] <jjesse> Adept used to be Adept - Manage Packages, before that it was Adept Manager, now in intrepid it is just "Manage Packages"
[03:12] <JontheEchidna> Adept3 has new desktop files
[03:12] <JontheEchidna> and Kickoff displays the application description by default
[03:12] <jjesse> but it seems every release have to update the menu entities
[03:13] <jjesse> for a lot of the entrieis
[03:13] <yuriy> jjesse: is it for the worse though?
[03:14] <Jucato> jjesse: the "Manage Packages" part is still the app description. the new K Menu shows description instead of appname by default
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> says "Package Manager" for the entry in the system submenu
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> "Manage Packages" is the .desktop file for adept 2
[03:15] <jjesse> i understand that
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> wonder why it didn't go away...
[03:15] <Jucato> make it go away!!!
[03:15] <Jucato> :)
[03:15] <jjesse> but not just for adept it seems we change a lot of the apps or someone changes the different names in the menu for each relaease
[03:16] <JontheEchidna> Blame KDE! :P
[03:16] <Jucato> er?
[03:16] <Jucato> blame Adept :)
[03:16] <jjesse> Ark used to be Archive Tool (ARK), now it is Archive Tool and in dapper it was just ark
[03:16] <jjesse> jerks :) :)
[03:16] <Jucato> hm... jjesse are we talking about how the apps are named or how they are displayed in the menu?
[03:17] <jjesse> how they are displayed in the menu
[03:17] <Jucato> ah right. blame KDE for that one :)
[03:17] <JontheEchidna> oh well, at least System Settings shows up in the menu now
[03:17] <jjesse> just seems to change all the time would be nice for consitency through releases
[03:17] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: yay
[03:17]  * JontheEchidna patched that earlier today, Riddell made the change upstream
[03:17] <Jucato> you  forgot the part when it would have been "Ark Archive Tool" (when they removed the parentheses)
[03:18] <Jucato> Hobbsee: pam stuff are fixed in intrepid? is it semi-safe too update today?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i think so.  i ihave hte corrected verison, but haven't rebooted / relogged in yet
[03:19]  * Jucato reconsiders reinstalling Hardy.. needs a working KDE 4 to demo on katurday
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> lol, Katurday
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> Need a lolcat wallpaper?
[03:19] <Jucato> I have a "lolcat predecessor" book :P
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> (I don't have any, btw :P)
[03:19] <Jucato> I was literally lol'ing at the mall when I bought it..
[03:20] <Jucato> I was still laughing when I was handing over the payment to the cashier
[03:20] <Jucato> and laughing as I was walking away from the store..
[03:21] <jjesse> they did a new  website dedicated to engrish
[03:21] <jjesse> its great
[03:21] <jjesse> www.engrishfunny.com
[03:22] <JontheEchidna> I lol'd
[03:23] <Jucato> jjesse: btw, I think JontheEchidna was proposing that we switch kickoff to use Name by default instead of Description iirc
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> actually the todo list says that
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> :P
[03:23] <Jucato> though that most probably requires patching from our side. not sure if upstream has plans for it
[03:24] <JontheEchidna> probably wouldn't be too hard, since the classic menu has the code for that
[03:24]  * Jucato would have thought it was on the todo list of upstream as well
[03:24] <Jucato> ah right
[03:24]  * Jucato never used that.. so never sow
[03:24] <Jucato> saw*
[03:24] <jjesse> so before i go through and commit this change to the menu entieis i should wait?
[03:24] <jjesse> grrr
[03:25] <Jucato> jjesse: what are you going to change?
[03:25] <jjesse> in the kubuntu docs we have a list of entities for menu references
[03:25] <jjesse> so in a document if you reference opening konqueror you just reference the entitiy
[03:25]  * JontheEchidna sorta doubts that things will change
[03:26] <Jucato> jjesse: hm.. I get what you mean... I thought you were going to change menu entries in the .desktop files :)
[03:26] <jjesse> instead of typing <guimenu>Application Launcher><guisubmenu>Applications</guisubmenu><guisubmenu>Internet</guisubmenu><guimenuitem>Web Browser</guimenuitem>
[03:27] <jjesse> it used to say <guimenuitem> Konqueror - Web Browser</guimenuitem>
[03:28] <Jucato> jjesse: there's no easy way to switch back and forth from showing App Name to App Description in Docbook?
[03:28] <jjesse> have to redo the menu entity
[03:28] <jjesse> which you define once
[03:28] <jjesse> and that flows through all docs that refernce that entity
[03:29] <Jucato> ah at least you only have to do it once.. I thought you have to do search and replace all :)
[03:29] <Jucato> docbook is smart :P
[03:29] <jjesse> yes docbook is smart
[03:29] <jjesse> but changing the entities can be time consuming
[03:29] <Jucato> I guess that now depends on whether that item on the todo list pushes through :/
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> 8 days until feature freeze
[03:30] <jjesse> wow is it comming up the qucily already
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> yeah...
[03:30] <jjesse> doesn't seem that its been long enough since hardy came out
[03:30] <Jucato> and I have done nothing yet!!
[03:30]  * Jucato epic fails again
[03:30] <jjesse> as usual
[03:30]  * jjesse ducks
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> On the plus side tomorrow is my birthday :D
[03:30] <jjesse> happy freakin birthday
[03:31] <jjesse> you an old man now?
[03:31] <Jucato> JontheEchidna: cool! we're just 5 or 6 days apart!
[03:31] <Jucato> (depends on what "tomorrow" is for you)
[03:31] <JontheEchidna> It's 22:31 here
[03:31] <Jucato> jjesse: was that "as usual" for me? ;)
[03:31] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: 17
[03:32] <Jucato> JontheEchidna: of Aug 20? so that would make your birthday on the 21st?
[03:32] <Jucato> 5 days apart then :)
[03:32] <JontheEchidna> yep, 21st
[03:32] <jjesse>  wow only 17
[03:32] <Jucato> they're getting younger :)
[03:32] <Jucato> (though your hackergotchi is decieving :P)
[03:32] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[03:32] <jjesse> i was 17 13 years ago
[03:33] <JontheEchidna> My dad is a big Linux geek too
[03:33] <Jucato> ha!
[03:33] <jjesse> makes me feel old
[03:33] <Jucato> at least I was 17 only 8 years and 5 days ago :P
[03:33] <jjesse> Jucato: i always thought your were closer to my age
[03:33] <ScottK> Our oldest is learning to drive.
[03:34] <Jucato> jjesse: considering we're 5 years apart, compared to 8 years with JontheEchidna... yes, I am closer to your age :P
[03:34] <ScottK> I realized recently that I have roughly a year of driving experience for everh hour she's been behind the wheel.
[03:34] <Jucato> (but not too close)
[03:35] <jjesse> ScottK: you old man
[03:35] <Jucato> :)
[03:35] <jjesse> Jucato: i thought you were older then me
[03:35] <Jucato> jjesse: roflmao!
[03:35] <jjesse> my oldest/only is 2 months old
[03:35] <jjesse> today
[03:35]  * Jucato isn't committed, has no offspring, not even pets that aren't stuffed with cotton
[03:36]  * Jucato is still living off his  mother's hard earned money
[03:36] <JontheEchidna> my brother has a dog...
[03:36] <vorian> dogs ftw
[03:36] <Jucato> well, I have a cat, a lion, a red panda, a penguin, and a small pterodactyl
[03:36] <vorian> cool, amber?
[03:36] <jjesse> where did you find the pterodactyl?
[03:36] <JontheEchidna> Oh that
[03:37] <Jucato> someone gave it to me. apparnetly from Neopets...
[03:37] <JontheEchidna> I made an asm to pterodactyl converter in PyQt the other day
[03:37] <Jucato> vorian: you made me think of pokemon :)
[03:37] <JontheEchidna> it rocks
[03:37] <Jucato> well, it is a rock type flying pokemon :)
[03:37] <vorian> Jucato: hehe
[03:38] <jjesse> lol
[03:39] <vorian> my fav pokiman is the 3rd stage dragon thingy
[03:39] <vorian> charzar
[03:39] <vorian> or some such
[03:39] <jjesse> charazar?
[03:40] <vorian> maybe
[03:40] <JontheEchidna> Charzard, iirc
[03:40] <vorian> gotacatchemall
[03:42] <ScottK> Riddell: There's a whole mess of KDE language packs in hardy-proposed right now.  Am I required to care for the 3.5.10 packaging?
[03:42] <jjesse> is 3.5.10 for hardy?
[03:42] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:43] <ScottK> I'm going to try for -proposed/-updates if it doesn't look to scary.
[03:43] <jjesse> hrm in intrepid any reason adept is held back?
[03:43] <Jucato> JontheEchidna, vorian: charizard :)
[03:43] <jjesse> Jucato: did you look it up?
[03:43] <Jucato> jjesse: no. I know it by heart
[03:44] <Jucato> I just had to go and check the laundry and cook rice. hence the delay
[03:44] <vorian> yay!
[03:44] <Jucato> charmander -> charmeleon -> charizard :)
[03:44] <jjesse> wow the crazy things we remember
[03:45] <Jucato> jjesse: btw, do you think it would be better if our docs referred to menu entities/entries as Description (Name) or Name (Description)? so that no matter how upstream changes the default display, we'd be insulated from that?
[03:45] <Jucato> jjesse: I used to memorize the first 150 pokemon :)
[03:46] <JontheEchidna> aha: http://xkcd.com/463/
[03:48] <jdong> Jucato: wow.
[03:48] <jdong> Jucato: I have nothing to say
[03:48] <jjesse> wow
[03:48] <jjesse> the first 150 pokemon
[03:48] <Jucato> jdong: about pokemon? :)
[03:48] <jjesse> did you really need to know them
[03:48] <Jucato> jjesse: gotta know'em all!
[03:48] <JontheEchidna> but now
[03:48] <JontheEchidna> there are over 400 pokemans
[03:48] <Jucato> there are over 500
[03:49] <Jucato> yeah, it's competing with the number or KDE classes...
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> KRandomNumberNotEqualToZero
[03:49] <Jucato> jjesse: hm.. you ain't heard anything yet :)
[03:49] <jdong> Jucato: yes, about pokeymon :)
[03:50]  * JontheEchidna is out for the night, be back tomorrow
[03:50] <Jucato> there was one game that I was heavily addicted to about 4-5 years ago. I'd memorize most of the monsters' race, size, and elemental property :)
[03:50] <jjesse> dungeons and dragons?
[03:51] <Jucato> of course, I couldn't memorize them all but only the most common ones I battle with
[03:51] <Jucato> nope. ragnarok online
[03:51] <jjesse> i knew a lot of stats for d and d by heart
[03:51] <jjesse> ah
[03:51] <Jucato> those I did *need* to remember... so that I would know which weapons and spells to bring/use :)
[03:52] <Jucato> it wouldn't make sense to use fire spells/weapons on a water type :)
[03:52] <Jucato> ah D&D.. the game I wanted to but never been able to play (except through a brief stint with Neverwinter Nights)
[03:53] <jjesse> i used to play for like 5 years
[03:54] <Jucato> wow
[03:54] <jjesse> now they are on version  4 of the rules and things are all messed up
[03:54] <Jucato> geek :)
[03:54] <Jucato> whoa
[03:54] <jjesse> dork
[03:54] <Jucato> I thought it was still 3.5
[03:54] <jjesse> thats what i was
[03:54] <Jucato> or did they also update like KDE? :)
[03:54] <Jucato> well it does sound like KDE.... KDE 4 -> DnD 4 :)
[03:55] <jjesse> they went 3 -> 3.5 and now at 4
[03:55] <jjesse> i think it was an excuse to sell more material
[03:56] <Jucato> it always is :)
[03:56]  * ScottK played the original one.
[03:56] <ScottK> It came in three thick paper bound pamphlets.
[03:56] <ScottK> Not even a book.
[03:56]  * Jucato read something about a move years ago to "open source" DnD rules or something..
[03:57] <jjesse> wasn't advanced DnD version 2 or somethng like that?
[03:57] <jjesse> Jucato: there is an open gaming licese
[03:57] <ScottK> jjesse: Yes.
[03:57] <jjesse> or something like that
[04:16] <Jucato> jjesse, nixternal: really sorry I haven't been of any use at all for the docs again (as jjesse said, "as usual"). I was too busy preparing my KDE/Kubuntu talk for katurday and some homework that I didn't realize freezes were coming up. my sincere apologies :(
[08:03] <\sh> Riddell: good morning :) can you do me a favour and trigger a rebuild of kde4bindings in intrepid :) it needs to catch up with latest sip4+pyqt4...
[08:52] <\sh> apachelogger: kde4bindings FTBFS because of not accessible pykdeuic4.py anymore..without your patch btw...
[08:52] <\sh> apachelogger: hardy kde4 ppa
[10:13] <Riddell> \sh: I've reuploaded it
[10:14] <\sh> Riddell: thx..hopefully it builds...I'm still freaking around with the hardy ppa package...it's really messed up
[10:50] <Riddell> \sh: kde4bindings failed
[10:50] <\sh> Riddell: yes...working on a patch ... I wonder why it was building in the first place
[10:52] <\sh> going out for lunch while kde4bindings is building ...
[11:03] <apachelogger> \sh: it ftbfs without my patch? that doesn't make any sense really, the only thing it does without the patch is create pyc files and do a simple install operation
[11:07] <smarter> apachelogger: it's normal, kde4bindings does not make any sense either :p
[11:08] <apachelogger> well, it started to make sense in 4.1.0 actually
[11:13] <smarter> is kdesudo b0rken?
[11:20] <smarter> Adept3 UI is... confusing
[11:22] <davmor2> Riddell: I'm doing some more smoke testing is there anything specific you'd like me to look at?
[11:28] <\sh> apachelogger: the ppa package doesn't build...
[11:30] <Riddell> davmor2: does krunner (alt-f2) work
[11:31] <Riddell> davmor2: also do volume keys work
[11:32] <apachelogger> \sh: I bet my coffee that it's missing from python-kde4
[11:32] <apachelogger> .install
[11:32] <davmor2> Riddell: volume I'll check tomorrow it's currently install on a machine without MM keys on
[11:32] <\sh> apachelogger: no..it's failing in the post-install::python-kde4
[11:32] <davmor2> but I'll try krunner
[11:32] <\sh> apachelogger: it's the standard package we have in intrepid
[11:32] <\sh> and hopefully the same in the ppa
[11:32] <apachelogger> well
[11:33] <apachelogger> check the .install :P
[11:33] <apachelogger> there is no reason it would get installed into debian/tmp and not be in debian/python-kde4 other than it doesn't get dh_installed at all
[11:33] <\sh> apachelogger: I checked both installs...and it's messed up
[11:33] <Riddell> davmor2: oh try the new adept
[11:33] <Riddell> davmor2: it may not start first time
[11:33] <apachelogger> \sh: very true
[11:34] <apachelogger> \sh: also, uploading to member is no good QA :P
[11:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you please add \sh to updates-testing
[11:34] <davmor2> Riddell: okay anything else?
[11:34] <\sh> apachelogger: what's freaking me out now is The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:34] <\sh>   python-qt4-dbg: Depends: python-qt4 (= 4.4.3-1) but it is not going to be installed
[11:34] <\sh> E: Broken packages
[11:34] <\sh> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16976713/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.kde4bindings_4%3A4.1.0-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:34] <apachelogger> \sh: please upload to kubuntu-updates-testing and move to members once you are sure the package works
[11:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: Stephan Hermann (shermann) has been added as a member of this team.
[11:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: gracie
[11:35] <\sh> Riddell: thx
[11:35]  * apachelogger needs to go lunching
[11:35] <\sh> wtf?
[11:36] <seele> mmm.. i could use coffee and a bagel
[11:36]  * seele yawns
[11:36] <seele> 'morning all
[11:37] <\sh> -EMADNESS!
[11:37] <\sh> hey seele
[11:38] <\sh> Riddell: all -dbg packages are on ddebs.ubuntu.com , right? so they can't be reached from the buildds?
[11:39] <\sh> Riddell: or do you know any reason python-qt4-dbg isn't fetched correctly...I checked the binaries which were build yesterday, and the dependencies and versions are ok...
[11:40] <Riddell> -dbg packages are just normal packages
[11:40] <Riddell> ddebs are the automatically created ones
[11:40] <Riddell> python-qt4-dbg is a normal package
[11:40] <\sh> then I don't understand the ftbfs of kde4bindings in intrepid
[11:41] <Riddell> the problem isn't with python-qt4-dbg, it's elsewhere
[11:41] <Riddell> python-qt4-dbg: Depends: python-qt4 (= 4.4.3-1) but it is not going to be installed
[11:42] <\sh> yes...but the package itself looks very good...I'll create an intrepid chroot
[11:42] <Riddell> good idea
[11:49] <\sh> argl
[11:51] <\sh> why is python-elementtree removed, but needed for python2.4 devs?
[11:56] <\sh> Riddell: please apply http://archive.linux-server.org/debdiffs/python-qt4_4.4.3-1ubuntu1.debdiff and upload, thx...after build and publish please trigger rebuild of kde4bindings :)
[11:56] <\sh> thx
[11:58] <Riddell> i knew there was a reason I removed it
[11:59] <\sh> but this is really strange...if py2.4 is still available, and py-elemttree is not needed for py2.5 anymore, but for py2.4 I wonder why we removed it?
[12:01] <davmor2> Riddell: Kubuntu Alt fails to install works up to about tasksel I've let cjwatson know
[12:29] <Riddell> davmor2: hum
[12:36] <davmor2> Riddell: it's known https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/260029
[12:37] <Riddell> oh, apt-xapian-index is still in universe
[12:39] <Riddell> hmm, I'm sure there was a MIR report for it but I can't find one
[12:51] <Riddell> mornfall: I presume you have no plans for an adept notifier?  I'm happy to write one if not it just won't be up to your high standards :)
[13:01] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I'd put batch at a higher priority 'cuz without it Jockey breaks
[13:02] <JontheEchidna> maybe I should poke mvo in #ubuntu-devel
[13:03] <Riddell> yes, batch is important
[13:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: mvo will look at the merge later today. :)
[13:43] <vorian> morning
[13:44] <Riddell> seele: those monitor results in full http://paste.ubuntu.com/39386/
[13:44] <Riddell> hi vorian
[13:44] <vorian> howdy :)
[13:44] <seele> Riddell: oh my gosh.. you mean yesterday wasn't the entire dataset?
[13:45] <Riddell> no, it took the whole night
[13:45] <seele> wow..
[13:53] <Riddell> davmor2: oh check if knetworkmanager is still working next time you have a live CD up
[13:54] <davmor2> Riddell: tomorrow will be the Kubuntu live tests :)
[14:10] <\sh> Riddell: thx for the upload
[14:12] <\sh> apachelogger: fixed for ppa ;-)
[14:12] <\sh> apachelogger: you were right, some fragments of your patch were in the my old diff.gz :(
[14:21] <seele> no desktop meeting i suppose?
[14:29] <devfil_> Riddell: there?
[14:31] <Riddell> hi devfil_
[14:31] <Riddell> seele: no, I think they've been cancelled for the rest of the month (people away on august holidays)
[14:33] <devfil_> Riddell: I'm working at kidelibs merge, the new version includes a new revision etc... In the previous merge, the only changed file in the source were alocal.m4?
[14:33] <Riddell> mornfall: hmm, adept updater doesn't seem to work right, it shows the list but none of them are selected for upgrade
[14:34] <Riddell> kidelibs?
[14:34] <Riddell> devfil_: kdelibs from KDE 3?
[14:35] <devfil_> Riddell: kdelibs package, yes, it is kde3
[14:36] <Riddell> devfil_: there's various things in that merge, lots of patches for one, see KUBUNTU-DEBIAN-DIFFERENCES
[14:36] <Riddell> devfil_: but why merge now?  is there something we paticularly want?
[14:37] <jjesse> adept updater doesn't do anything in intrepid for me
[14:37] <jjesse> i just click and click and nothing happnes
[14:37] <seele> all these people on August holiday..
[14:38] <Riddell> jjesse: adept 2 or 3?
[14:38] <devfil_> Riddell: not in particularity, but the new branch update, the fix for kdepart frezee and ghostscript as recommended dep should be included IMHO
[14:39] <jjesse> Riddell: adep2
[14:42] <devfil_> Riddell: in KUBUNTU-DEBIAN-DIFFERENCES there are nothing about alocal.m4, but in the changelog yes
[14:44] <Riddell> devfil_: I've a better idea, fancy packaging 3.5.10 for intrepid?
[14:44] <Riddell> jjesse: adept 2 is dead, adept 3 is the new ruler in town
[14:45] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: updater is working fine here
[14:45] <JontheEchidna> and thanks for fixing konversation ;-)
[14:45] <devfil_> Riddell: I can merge some of new debian changes and then update it to 3.5.10 (I think is more easier than do the merge :D)
[14:50]  * vorian pushes irssi onto JontheEchidna's lap wrapped in shiny paper with a large bow
[14:51] <jjesse> Riddell: guess i'l have to install adept 3 then
[14:52] <jjesse> that's in mornfalls ppa right?
[14:52] <Riddell> jjesse: it's in intrepid
[14:53] <jjesse> as adept3 or adept?
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> as adept
[14:57] <nixternal> Jucato: no worries... jjesse and I are used to doing the kamikaze runs now with docs :)
[14:59] <Jucato> nixternal: :) :( :/
[14:59] <nixternal> hehe
[15:00] <vorian> nixternal: did you really want to do two presentations at olf?
[15:00] <vorian> if so, what titles
[15:01] <vorian> if you had a choose 1 to do, which would it be?
[15:01] <nixternal> vorian: if there were still empty slots then sure

[15:01] <nixternal> hrmm, I will leave that up to you to decide..whichever you think will be the best...but my main representation at OLF is KDE and Kubuntu
[15:02] <vorian> ok
[15:02] <vorian> well, we are going thru the talks now
[15:02] <vorian> there are some rather large number of papers
[15:02] <nixternal> ok, I am open to due multiple if needed, keep that in mind
[15:02] <vorian> kewlio
[15:02] <nixternal> don't know how many talks you all received
[15:02] <vorian> a lot
[15:02] <nixternal> nice
[15:02] <vorian> almost 3x the need
[15:03] <nixternal> any Ubuntu development ones?
[15:03] <vorian> me
[15:03] <nixternal> w00t
[15:03] <vorian> and that it
[15:03] <nixternal> I will be there to hassel you then like I did wolfger at Penguicon
[15:03] <vorian> i'm not sure i'll get selected
[15:03] <vorian> haha
[15:03] <vorian> great
[15:03]  * \sh is going mad...
[15:03] <nixternal> \sh: you can't go somewhere you already are silly :P
[15:03]  * vorian gives \sh a straight-jacket
[15:04] <Jucato> after an hour or so with latex, I'm beginning to see \sh in a whole different light...
[15:04] <\sh> harhar...latex...
[15:04] <\sh> work with flash player 9.0.124 and try to follow the documentations about "RTMPT" connects...
[15:05] <\sh> "with RTMPT flash players tries to tunnel the RTMP protocol via http...it uses the browser http methods to connect to the FMS".
[15:05] <nixternal> nice
[15:05] <\sh> yes
[15:06] <\sh> this is the functionality they document
[15:06] <\sh> but the reality is different
[15:06] <\sh> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcom/articles/firewalls_proxy04.html <- documentation
[15:06] <\sh> http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-519 <- bug report
[15:06] <\sh> and it looks like, that the problem exists since 2007
[15:07] <\sh> and right now, one of our customers wants to use our product, which uses flex + flash...and this company is screwed
[15:08] <\sh> because they can only access the web via proxy , more precise an application proxy..but flashplayer doesn't work as written in their documentation...
[15:08] <nixternal> thank god I do not work in the web field...that crap would drive me nuts
[15:08] <nixternal> I rather sit here and code Java and Python all day long then code web stuff for 1 hour
[15:08] <\sh> and the fun part now: try to reach someone at adobe...
[15:09] <nixternal> yay \o/ - I have created version 0.1 of our "Linux Server Auto-healing" feature!
[15:10] <\sh> nixternal: I'm not working as web dude...but I'm the guy who tries to explain those strange flex/flash devs how the internet works
[15:10] <nixternal> lol
[15:10] <nixternal> go figure, web guys don't even know how the web works :P
[15:10] <\sh> nixternal: "Reboot windows server every minute"?
[15:10] <nixternal> no way...for drive failures
[15:11] <\sh> nixternal: ah then it's more like: "power off server automagically, open window via remote hands, throw server out of the windows via remote hands, call HP and order new boxes"
[15:11] <nixternal> if a drive fails, it sends a message via snmp to our manager letting them know that a drive has failed...it then umounts the drive, flashes the red light on the server...someone goes and swaps out the drive, and boom, it heals itself...better than raid and faster!
[15:12] <nixternal> it will switch our appliance into a limited state as to not allow any corruptions
[15:12] <nixternal> autosweetness
[15:13] <\sh> nixternal: ah cool...can I use it as replacement for the windows NLB stuff?
[15:13] <nixternal> works only on Linux!
[15:13] <\sh> damn....
[15:13] <\sh> so i'm screwed with windows NLB and mac flooding
[15:13] <nixternal> works great on CentOS...I still have to stage an rPath and Ubuntu appliance so we can test to see who the winner is
[15:13]  * nixternal puts his money on rPath at this point, but would really like to use Ubuntu
[15:14] <gribelu> I want to  upgrade to Intrepid from Hardy and i have both KDE3 and 4 installed. Should i remove any of them to avoid conflicts?
[15:15] <\sh> oh for the rest of the audience..."Windows NLB is something like Linux HeartBeat, but without service dependencies, but when taking over an virtual ip, instead of setting this ip dynamically, it floods multicast/unicast the switch with mac addresses of the new server...switch goes bangbang and thinks ok, windows wins"
[15:15] <jjesse> sounds like fun
[15:17] <\sh> jjesse: it's a broken design...because in the real life world, you now have to introduce a new special vlan, spread over X other switches, only for having a simple, painless, heartbeat system
[15:17] <jjesse> sounds broken
[15:17] <\sh> it is...
[15:17] <\sh> especially when you bind it together with mssql foc clustering
[15:18] <jjesse> sounds like you are enjoying yourself
[15:19] <\sh> server1+mssql1 vs. server2+mssql2 , mssql1 is master, mssql2 is slave, they sync .. now mssql1 service dies, mssql2 detects this and becomes master, but the underlaying NLB doesn't know about service dependencies, and doesn't take over the ip
[15:19] <\sh> result: big expensive windows crap
[15:20] <jjesse> yup
[15:20] <\sh> now we need to buy another machine to have a shared storage for this to work properly...for a simple 8GB database
[15:20] <jjesse> is adept3 designed for a certain resolution size? cause it looks big and ugly in 1200X960
[15:27] <Riddell> works fine here
[15:29] <smarter> the update/apply/etc buttons should be put on a toolbar
[15:30] <Riddell> they act more like dialog actions than toolbar actions
[15:31] <jjesse> the releveant tags section can't be resized
[15:33] <smarter> also I don't understand how the tag column choose what tags to display
[15:33] <\sh> sounds like a job for seele ;)
[15:34] <smarter> \sh: yep :)
[15:35] <smarter> that thing definitely needs some UI changes
[15:55] <Riddell> testers needed for new update-notifier http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/update-notifier-kde_0.1_all.deb
[15:58] <jjesse> installing
[16:00] <JontheEchidna> me too
[16:04]  * Riddell holds breath
[16:05] <jjesse> it installed but nothing so far needs updating :)
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> actually
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> I have a few packages that need to be upgraded
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> no notifier
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> maybe I should run it first?
[16:06] <Riddell> yes that would help
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> heh
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> works
[16:06] <Riddell> yay
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> starts adept updater just fine
[16:07] <Riddell> great, thanks Jonathans
[16:07] <JontheEchidna> except nothing is marked for upgrade
[16:07] <JontheEchidna> ...but that's an adept problem
[16:07] <Riddell> you said earlier
[16:07] <Riddell> 14:44 < JontheEchidna> Riddell: updater is working fine here
[16:07] <JontheEchidna> it was
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> not anymore though :/
[16:08] <Riddell> hum
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> I did fetch the list when I did updater the last time
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> maybe that made the difference?
[16:11] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: still shows I have 4 updates available even after I installed them all
[16:15] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: how many did you have before?
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> 4
[16:16] <Riddell> hmm, I wonder how I can detect that packages have been installed
[16:52] <Riddell> Tonio__: what's the status of kdebluetooth?
[16:53] <Tonio__> Riddell: no change since the last upload
[16:53] <Tonio__> Riddell: currently works except from the missing bluetooth:/ ioslave support
[16:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: this is the next thing to be added, but I have no informations concerning the roadmap..... hopefully before the release.... but that's unsure...
[16:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: btw, since no konqueror3, the kde3 version didn't give any better result, which is the good point
[17:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: well it's not in the archive
[17:04] <Riddell> and it's not in new
[17:04] <Riddell> so has it been rejected?
[17:04] <Tonio_> hum..... lemme look
[17:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: it's in....
[17:05] <Riddell> where?
[17:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: apt-cache policy kdebluetooth
[17:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: I simply replaced the old package
[17:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: this one is the new one
[17:07] <Riddell> aah
[17:07] <Riddell> ok, great
[17:31] <thr> Hi!
[17:32] <thr> kdiff3 depends on libkonq4 which is listed in aptitude as obsolete or locally created. Any idea what might be wrong there?
[17:33] <JontheEchidna> Intrepid doesn't have libkonq4
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> so if you're using Intrepid that would be the most obvious  problem
[17:34] <ScottK-laptop> So what's wrong is kdiff3 needs to be ported to KDE4.
[17:35] <thr> ScottK-laptop: So I will not be able to use kde3 apps on intrepid anymore?
[17:35] <ScottK-laptop> thr: Not ones that need libkonq4.
[17:35] <ScottK-laptop> thr: kde4libs is still there in general.
[17:36] <thr> That is really bad news for me:-(
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> we should get Riddell to archive kdiff3
[17:37] <jjesse> thr: you could wait on upgrading to intrepid
[17:37] <thr> jjesse: Too late for that;-)
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> well not if he already has it installed
[17:38] <thr> I still have libkonq4, so no problem for me. But kdiff3 is really popular (at least in my office), so people will complain if that breaks.
[17:40] <thr> Hmmm... newest news entry on the kdiff3 page is from april 2007. Not good:-(
[17:43] <thr> No source repo to be found (at least by me) either:-( I think I'll have to look for a new tool to work with.
[17:43] <thr> Anyway: Thanks for the info.
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> You're welcome.
[19:14] <jjesse> Riddell: new adept-updater just notifed me there were new updates
[19:14] <Riddell> yay!
[19:14] <jjesse> but after typing in password it is not launching
[19:15] <Riddell> that'll be the mysterious kdesudo not launching adept issue
[19:17] <jjesse> after i type it in via command line (sudo adept updater) i get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39466
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> ok, I've narrowed down the upgradable-but-not-marked-for-upgrade
[19:17] <jjesse> then adept updater works
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> they're only marked for upgrade if you fetch the package lists
[19:17] <jjesse> ah you are right
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> By the way I suggest you guys try the new software-properties-kde :D
[19:20] <ScottK-laptop> The current krusader we have in Intrepid needs libkonq4-dev and so is not buildable.  Someone might want to look at packaging a development snapshot of krusader 2.0 as the current one we have is broken.
[19:34] <ScottK-laptop> Bug 260168 if anyone is interested.
[20:03] <jjesse> quick question where is the desktop file for kate located?
[20:04] <JontheEchidna> It's /usr/share/applications/kde4/kate.desktop
[20:04] <jjesse> thanks
[20:04] <JontheEchidna> dpkg -L <packagename> will show you all the installed files of a package
[20:04] <jjesse> thanks JontheEchidna
[20:04]  * JontheEchidna learned that a few days ago from a bug report
[20:14]  * jussi01 loves dpkg -L :D
[20:50] <smarter> something is wrong with Kate
[20:50] <smarter> the mimetypes icons of the documents sidebar are not displayed
[20:50] <smarter> instead there's a "?"
[20:50] <smarter> is this a Kubuntu bug, KDE bug or is my system broken?
[20:52]  * JontheEchidna didn't know the sidebar had icons for mimetypes
[21:05] <taupter> Hi. I'm trying to compile trunk's kdelibs (using kdesvn-build) but it tries to get Strigi include files from /usr/include instead of /home/kde4/kde/include. Somebody could help me?
[21:12] <smarter> JontheEchidna: http://hamberg.no/erlend/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/vimode2.png
[21:13]  * JontheEchidna doesnt' have any icons at all
[21:14] <smarter> O_o
[21:14] <smarter> JontheEchidna: hardy or intrepid?
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> Intrepid
[21:15] <smarter> same for me
[21:15] <smarter> weird
[21:31] <NthDegree> I have some questions related to SELinux on Ubuntu/Kubuntu
[21:32] <NthDegree> I would like to know what the plans are for it and if it will end up being treated as first rate as AppArmor currently is
[21:32] <ScottK-laptop> NthDegree: You'll get better answers on the in #ubuntu-hardened.
[21:33] <NthDegree> or rather... "is SELinux in the core plans for Ubuntu/Kubuntu?"
[21:33] <NthDegree> ah righty
[21:33] <NthDegree> thanks =]
[21:33] <ScottK-laptop> NthDegree: Not for Intrepid.  It at least generally works in Hardy which is better than we've done before.
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> Check out the backtrace for bug 258447
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> Anybody know what's up with that?
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> It's pulling in qt3, gtk, and even gtk-qt-engine into the backtrace
[21:55] <smarter> oh my god, bugs.kde.org is finally usable!
[21:55] <smarter> (and pretty too)
[21:58] <NthDegree> hey ScottK-laptop any clues as to how reliable KDE 4 version of Hardy is? :D
[22:20] <ScottK-laptop> NthDegree: Not really.  I've got kde-games-kde4 installed and it's good.  The rest of my setup is pure KDE3.
[22:21] <ScottK-laptop> NthDegree: Probably #kubuntu-kde4 is a good place to discuss that.
[22:24] <NthDegree> ah right
[22:24] <NthDegree> i'll go with KDE 3 then
[22:24] <NthDegree> in comparison to 3 I do not like 4 so much
[22:39] <seele> ew, canonical is looking for a UI designer for launchpad? good luck filling that spot.
[22:39] <ScottK-laptop> seele: Note that the job includes a requirement for Flash experience.
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> that sucks...
[22:40] <seele> ScottK-laptop: wow, i completely missed that part.  i did see ajax too
[22:40]  * seele sighs
[22:40] <seele> when will people realise that design and development are two different roles
[22:41] <seele> you can't expect someone to be experienced in user research and testing AND be able to build production-level apps
[22:42] <ScottK-laptop> One can expect whatever they want, they may, however, be disappointed.
[22:42] <ScottK-laptop> ;-)
[22:43] <JontheEchidna> they can also make changes and praise them even if they are sub-optimal ;-)
[22:44] <ScottK-laptop> Personally, I'm so far thrilled with this latest Launchpad release.
[22:45] <ScottK-laptop> I haven't noticed any changes.
[22:58] <NthDegree> seele, if they bribe some SuSE people they are sorted
[22:58] <NthDegree> SuSE have the sexiest stuff going
[22:58] <NthDegree> hell they have a more attractive name for some things too
[22:59] <apachelogger> NthDegree: openSUSE
[22:59] <apachelogger> SuSE doesn't exist for years
[22:59] <NthDegree> apachelogger, was still SuSE until 10.2
[22:59] <ScottK-laptop> Right.  My opensuse experience was 10.1.  I had this beautiful KDE desktop that could never be updated because they swapped out the update technology after the beta and released with it totally broken.
[22:59] <NthDegree> as they used to say "OpenSuSE is the development project, SuSE is the distro!"
[23:00] <ScottK-laptop> I immediately switched.
[23:00] <apachelogger> NthDegree: no it is not
[23:00] <NthDegree> ScottK, I never said they were good technically
[23:00] <apachelogger> openSUSE is the project the distro and the religion
[23:00] <NthDegree> apachelogger, at that time they had only just switched
[23:00] <NthDegree> the channel was still called #suse
[23:00] <apachelogger> the distro was still SUSE Linux
[23:00] <NthDegree> and #opensuse was the equivalent of #suse-devel
[23:01] <NthDegree> yeah.. and they flamed people calling it OpenSuSE at that time xD
[23:01] <NthDegree> anyway... the OpenSuSE artwork rocks (if not SuSE!)
[23:01] <NthDegree> I wonder if canonical could bribe them
[23:01] <NthDegree> >.>
[23:01] <apachelogger> when Novell got SuSE GmbH the distro became SuSE Linux, then SUSE Linux, then openSUSE/SUSE LINUX, now openSUSE
[23:03] <NthDegree> by the way is the UI for developers or users?
[23:04] <NthDegree> after all developers tend to hate flashy stuff generally (not as easy to navigate usually... or that is how I have seen some "friendly" UIs from a tech standpoint)
[23:05] <ScottK-laptop> The developer UI is generally vim or emacs.
[23:05] <NthDegree> haha
[23:07] <apachelogger> kate is better than both of them combined :P
[23:10] <NthDegree> KWrite is better still ;)
[23:10]  * NthDegree hides
[23:13] <seele> NthDegree: you need to do more than throw pretty graphics on something
[23:13] <seele> ScottK-laptop: how did you like yast (or hate yast :)
[23:14] <ScottK-laptop> 10.1 was my one and only opensus release.  I really only remember the not working part.
[23:20] <NthDegree> ScottK-laptop, here's my experience of many distros
[23:21] <NthDegree> Xandros looked the part but blew (did not do my USB Speedtouch modem when I was a newb.. even after learning very quickly how to install it)
[23:21] <NthDegree> Ubuntu Breezy looked fugly in comparison at the time but managed to do it :D
[23:22] <NthDegree> Fedora Core 4 worked but locked up a lot ("nv" hated GeForce 2 at the time) and SuSE the same :(
[23:22] <NthDegree> now I have a router and binned the Speedtouch hehe
[23:23] <ScottK-laptop> I started on Linux with Xandros.  I got tired of the trainging wheels.  Tried a bunch of different distros, settled on opensuse.  That lasted several weeks.  Tried Kubuntu just before Dapper released and have been here ever since.
[23:23] <NthDegree> I tested the Dapper BETA back when I was all noobish
[23:23] <ScottK-laptop> When I tried Fedora, it was FC5 and the install CD fell over on the machine I had for testing, so that was it.
[23:24] <NthDegree> i'm moving back to Kubuntu in a bit... Fedora is sexy but disappointing, this infrastructure silence thing has gotten to me
[23:25] <ScottK-laptop> I've got to run.  I'll see you all later.
[23:25] <NthDegree> catch you later ScottK ^^