[00:00] slangasek: okay, my focus is on pam/ecryptfs now.... [00:00] does pbuilder use the sources.list of the system? [00:01] Version: 1.9.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.3 is available there... [00:01] slangasek: I didn't see any debian/pam-configs/ within the pam package .... perhaps you meant another package? i'm downloading the bzr branch (on the hotel's sad wireless) right now.... [00:02] kirkland: which version were you looking at? [00:02] any idea what i could be doing wrong? [00:03] slangasek: hmm... maybe i went about this wrong... apt-get source pam pulls pam-1.0.1 [00:04] kirkland: at what Debian revision? :) [00:04] that sounds conspicuously nascent [00:04] pam (1.0.1-1ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low [00:04] slangasek: okay, bzr branch has the docs ;-) [00:05] slangasek: gimme a few minutes, i'll peruse this.... [00:06] yep, your apt mirror is at least 4 hours out of date ;) [00:07] slangasek: :-) thankfully, my hotel wifi pull the bzr mirror, though, initially estimates pointed at 4 hours to branch that === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF [00:08] kirkland: heh, ouch [00:17] slangasek: any guidelines on the priority front? [00:18] kirkland: I threw some together in the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PAMConfigFrameworkSpec) [00:18] * kirkland subscribes to changes to that page, albeit after-the-fact [00:19] kirkland: but I think this hooks in as an 'optional' module, so I'm not sure the priorities matter as much? [00:19] slangasek: agreed, optional in all points in the pam stack [00:20] slangasek: would Priority 0 be acceptable? [00:21] kirkland: yes, that's what I'm currently using for smbpasswd [00:22] slangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39236/ [00:24] kirkland: s/^\s+(auth|session|password)//; [00:24] (that's the recent syntax change I made during the implementation) [00:26] kirkland: oh, and s/Initial/Final/ [00:26] kirkland: because if there's no "Initial" stanza defined it'll fall back to "Final", but not the other way around [00:27] slangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39237/ [00:27] slangasek: nice, (auth|session|password) were redundant [00:28] precisely :-) [00:28] kirkland: looks good to me... throw it in there, call pam-auth-update --package in your postinst, and test it? :) [00:29] slangasek: suggestions on where to install the file? /usr/share/foo ? [00:30] kirkland: it has to be installed in /usr/share/pam-configs/ [00:30] slangasek: k [00:30] slangasek: i see it in the wiki now.... [00:34] slangasek: "Package config declarations are shipped in the packages under /usr/share, and are not user-editable" ... should I install it 444? [00:34] kirkland: 0644, the default for all files [00:35] ("not user editable" meaning only that user changes will not be preserved or honored) [00:35] slangasek: right, but that's chmod-able in postinst, no? [00:35] k [00:35] there's no need to chmod it at all === spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad is going down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update. ||libpam-runtime 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 badly broken, see bug #259867 || Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopmen === slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad is going down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update. | pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs f === Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as Kopfi|offline === slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update | pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http:// [00:43] can't win === slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update | pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help [00:43] slangasek: no manpage for pam-auth-update yet? [00:43] close enough for now :P [00:43] kirkland: correct; I wanted to get this into your hands (& into the archive), documentation is next along with a couple of missing features (like, being able to deconfigure a module in prerm remove) [00:43] slangasek: i don't see a usage statement in the wiki either [00:44] slangasek: no worries... [00:44] pam-auth-update --package is all you should ever call from a postinst === asac_ is now known as asac [00:44] slangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39240/ [00:44] slangasek: oh, maybe i should drop the ecryptfs-utils then [00:46] slangasek: and the file installed to /usr/share/pam_configs/ should just be the package name? ie, ecryptfs-utils? [00:46] kirkland: a simple, descriptive filename; package name is fine [00:47] or simply "ecryptfs", even [00:50] slangasek: which pam version should I depend on in the control file? [00:50] kirkland: libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-2ubuntu1) [00:51] slangasek: i suppose "Recommends" would be most appropriate [00:52] why not a simple Depends? [00:52] if you do a 'Recommends', then you have to make the use in the postinst conditional [00:52] slangasek: okay, f that [00:52] :-) [01:02] slangasek: error message... pam-auth-update: Run pam-auth-config --force to override. [01:02] slangasek: looks like you change names of the bin at some point? [01:08] kirkland: no, I just fail at looking at the name of the file I'm editing [01:08] I'll fix that up, thanks :) [01:08] $0 [01:08] slangasek: np.... okay i'm close [01:09] slangasek: i got added to common-auth and common-session fine, but not common-password for some reason [01:10] kirkland: s/addit/Addit/ [01:10] case-sensitive field names, sorry [01:10] slangasek: aha [01:10] slangasek: got it [01:11] slangasek: okay, now for the sensitive part.... [01:11] slangasek: i've been telling users all along to use auth-client-config to setup pam manually [01:11] slangasek: i see your utility is smart enough to detect outside edits of pam.d/* [01:11] slangasek: i suppose in the postinst i should tear down the auth-client-config configuration, if present [01:12] slangasek: to properly support upgrades? [01:12] kirkland: by then it's too late, I think; libpam-runtime will already be installed, and will have already decided to go into manual mode [01:12] kirkland: I think this is a "you were running a devel release, fix it up by hand" case [01:12] slangasek: i can see that.... [01:13] noting that "fix it up by hand" probably means nothing more than "pam-auth-update --force" [01:14] slangasek: shall i rip out the auth-client-config in the same patch as the one where I'm adding this? [01:14] slangasek: that seems logic to me... [01:14] I have no opinion on that; maybe ask jdst ok, he's not here :) [01:17] asac: well, I'd implement a magic mark filter for that [01:17] the basic theory graydon notes is accurate [01:17] though actually we can do better with N-parent diffs [01:22] slangasek: okay, i have a tested working ecryptfs-utils package [01:22] w00t [01:23] slangasek: however, i would like to provide a better upgrade vector for my bleeding edge testers [01:23] ok [01:23] slangasek: perhaps a dpkg-reconfigure libpam-runtime? [01:24] insufficient; libpam-runtime isn't going to have enough smarts to know whether it's safe to overwrite this stuff, so at best you get a debconf prompt asking to overwrite (and in any case, it's not safe to call dpkg-reconfigure from a maintainer script [01:24] ) [01:25] hrm [01:25] but what you can do is do the same thing as libpam-runtime's postinst: have a version check, and an md5sum check, and if you recognize the files as being your handiwork (via auth-client-config), call pam-auth-update --package --force [01:25] y'know, I'm having the hardest time remembering that the program is named pam-auth-update instead of pam-auth-config. Maybe I named it wrong and should change it? [01:26] :-) [01:26] slangasek: you've typed it that way a few times [01:26] slangasek: i cut-and-pasted it into a shell at some point and it didn't worky [01:26] :) [01:27] :-) [01:28] slangasek: i think i can actually issue an auth-client-config command to undo its changes [01:28] slangasek: would that help? [01:28] nope [01:28] :) [01:28] ah, it's too late [01:28] something still has to call pam-auth-update --force [01:28] as you've said [01:28] okay [01:30] slangasek: okay, i see the libpam-runtime.postinst, i'll use something like that [01:30] I guess you probably only have one md5sum for each file that you need to worry about, so I would suggest including them as variables in the maintainer script instead of having to ship files for it [01:54] argh, testing cdebconf changes => officially a pain [01:54] :> [01:54] cjwatson: Why is that? [01:55] because you can't install cdebconf on a full system [01:55] slangasek: chroot [01:55] due to conflicts with debconf (though we should be getting closer to the end of that transition) [01:55] All that can be done by a test suite. [01:55] yes yes yes stop preaching at me :) [01:56] I'm trying to test something exceedingly specific and need to do a proper system test in an Ubuntu CD environment [01:56] also I don't need solutions since I've figured it out [01:56] I should have known that saying "test" would bring out the helpful crew [01:56] I have not claimed helpful :) [01:57] https://launchpad.net/~the-helpful-crew/+members [01:57] And Launchpad is offline [01:57] ha-ha, made you look [01:57] :-P [01:58] ion_: short answer, if you don't know what I'm trying to do, don't suggest a chroot ;-) [01:59] d-i is not amenable to that approach [01:59] hmm, for some reason the Edubuntu CD seems to not be working anymore [01:59] heh, that too [01:59] you /used/ to be able to chroot d-i... [01:59] I wouldn't like to attempt to install as far as tasksel that way [02:00] ...right :) [02:00] slangasek: something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39252/ ? [02:00] (the bug I'm working on is related to the combination of preseeding and debconf -> cdebconf passthrough) [02:01] $ dpkg --compare-versions "" lt "53-1ubuntu6"; echo $? [02:01] 0 [02:01] kirkland: you can leave out the [ -z "$2" ] test [02:01] cjwatson: thx, copied from slangasek ;-) [02:01] * cjwatson <- nitpicking maintainer scripts since 2000 [02:02] I'll just pretend that Sam wrote that part of the postinst originally [02:03] anyway, sometimes it's nice to make it explicit for the benefit of readers :) [02:04] kirkland: actually, in your case I think you explicitly *don't* want to do this on first install of the package, so better to omit the [ -z ] test and use lt-nl as the operator... [02:04] slangasek: i thought i might have an off-by-one there.... [02:06] kirkland: lt-nl != le, if that's what you mean [02:06] -nl is "null versions compare greater than everything instead of less than everything" [02:06] slangasek: not what i meant [02:07] slangasek: just that 53-1ubuntu6 didn't seem like quite the right operand [02:08] kirkland: looks right to me [02:08] I think I prefer "No version is Later than any version" as the expansion of -nl, myself; "greater than" isn't so mnemonic [02:09] slangasek: okay, i'm fading fast... i will test this more thoroughly asap tomorrow [02:09] slangasek: upgrade some of my vm's in various conflagurations [02:09] slangasek: before posting the patch for sponsorship [02:09] slangasek: but i'm liking what i'm seeing out of your utility! [02:09] oh, this is so wrong, I'm using kickstart as a way to get in ahead of cdebconf starting [02:10] slangasek: i just don't want to smack the people who adopted this early, if you know what i mean [02:10] kirkland: sure, I understand :) [02:11] kirkland: fwiw, I normally use lt $fixed version, rather than le $last_known_good, because I figure repeating the operation against uncoordinated ~ versions is the safer course [02:11] er, $last_known_bad [02:11] slangasek: i'll try to find a Euro sponsor for the patch tomorrow; if not, i'll be waiting for your review [02:11] (if you pass 'ks=http://foo.invalid/bar' to the installer, it will bring up the network and then stop with an error message before starting main-menu) [02:11] kirkland: good-o, cheers :) [02:12] night all [02:12] 'night! [02:21] kirkland: one thing that's missing here is to check that /etc/pam.d/common-account is also pristine before deciding to overwrite; your package hasn't edited it, so it should just be a matter of using the checksum from libpam-runtime, but we should check that all four files are unmodified before taking an action that will clobber them all [02:32] kirkland: how I would write this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39257/ [02:32] slangasek: If you have a moment, would you please do the wireshark 1.0.2 backport for Hardy. I'm trying to administer a "Please use the system" lesson to my local LUG and it'd be handy if that magically appeared soonish. [02:32] It's Bug #259876 [02:32] Launchpad bug 259876 in hardy-backports "Please backport wireshark 1.0.2-1 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259876 [02:32] ScottK: heh :) [02:33] I guess that means LP is back up, though [02:33] Was it down? I turned off the network and went out in the backyard to work without distraction for the last several hours. [02:33] (with my laptop) [02:33] yeah, it's still down if you ask the /topic [02:33] ScottK: Which was when LP was down [02:34] Right, of course. [02:34] It's 1:34UTC, they're early [02:34] "We still have 30 minutes! Bring it back down!" [02:35] Well I've looked at one page and didn't claw my eyes out, so that's good news. [02:36] ScottK: magic moofled [02:36] Thanks. === spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help [02:38] slangasek: sorry :-) === slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [02:39] spm: no worries :) === superm1|away is now known as superm1 [06:23] good morning [06:25] hey dholbach! [06:25] hi Hobbsee === superm1 is now known as superm1|away [07:03] slangasek: I guess "Cannot make/remove an entry for specified session" iz the pam bug? [07:12] StevenK: yes [07:13] slangasek: Yes, I actually read the bug between asking and you replying. :-) [07:13] well, hmph [07:13] Heh, sorry :-) [07:15] roughly, that was also a "yes; do you need help getting anything un-broken?" [07:15] Nothing OMG kittens urgent [07:16] Just need to update a mobile image chroot/squashfs [07:16] slangasek: Has the fixed package been published? [07:16] yes, hours ago [07:17] Ah, my local mirror needs to be booted [07:26] huh, when did mailman start sorting admindb entries by sender first name instead of by date? [07:33] 7~/me has had a mental blank... .la files do go in dev packages right? [07:33] .la files go to /dev/null ;) [07:33] yes, they go in dev packages or nowhere at all, depending on your perspective [07:35] slangasek: heh right, thanks. [07:43] kees: so with the new framework, all we have to do to change the default password hash from md5 to something else is to edit debian/pam-configs/unix. [07:50] lifeless: hmm. does that mean that a solution is already available? [07:56] asac: no more than that thread talks about [07:56] though you can do a merge and diff yourself [07:56] and I have some plans that may help eventually [07:58] * TheMuso grumbles at libtool changes breaking another package... [07:59] And in a non-obvious way as well. The package builds, but no .so files are built. [08:19] hrm; did something regress on bazaar.lp in the latest launchpad code rollout?: [08:19] Using saved location: bzr+ssh://vorlon@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pam/ubuntu/ [08:19] Server is too old for streaming pull, reconnecting. (Upgrade the server to Bazaar 1.2 to avoid this) [08:19] I thought the server was 1.5 ? [08:20] slangasek: Beg in #launchpad? [08:20] <\sh> slangasek: see #launchpad [08:28] StevenK: The server is 1.6rc3, actually :) [08:28] RAOF: Not according to that error :-P [08:29] Right; apparently it's got to do with something that bzr 1.5 uses that 1.6 doesn't support. [08:30] mmk [08:36] * persia suspects the error is actually " Server is too new for streaming pull, reconnecting." === ara_ is now known as ara [10:10] soren: kvm doesn't like being shutdown on intrepid.... [10:13] amitk: -v === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [10:15] soren: bug 259336 [10:16] Bug 259336 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/259336 is private [10:16] bug 259336 [10:16] Launchpad bug 259336 in kvm "kvm crashed with SIGSEGV in __libc_start_main()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259336 [10:16] could you try with kvm 72, please? [10:19] sure [10:22] ooh, I didn't just get quoted in LWN [10:22] I made "Quotes of the week" in the LWN Kernel page [10:22] * Keybuk is FAMOUS! [10:28] Keybuk: Ooh, top spot, no less :) [10:30] Keybuk: woo! [10:35] moin people [10:35] hihi [10:35] hey stefan! :) [11:06] cjwatson: Could you subscribe me also to the CD image reports for alternate CDs for the ports? I get ports_daily-live, but not ports_daily. === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [11:29] persia: the reason you aren't getting mails is that the builds are succeeding, not that you aren't subscribed [11:31] cjwatson: Ah, I only saw hppa and lpia on cdimages.ubuntu.com, and so thought that I should be getting errors for ia64, sparc, and powerpc. [11:31] cjwatson: On another note, do you have any plans for further updates to the ArchiveReorganisation spec, or do you think it's ready for presentation to the TB for review/approval? [11:33] persia: oh, I think it only sends out a mail if the entire build fails [11:33] that's probably a bug [11:33] http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/intrepid/ports_daily-20080821.log [11:33] persia: I want to run it by Mark this week while I'm in the office; I already gave him a heads-up on it [11:34] cjwatson: OK. I asked about it at the last TB meeting, and was advised that the idea was accepted, but that the specific proposal had not yet been submitted for review. Please let me know if I may be of any assistance in helping the process along. [11:35] ok [11:35] thanks === Mez is now known as Mez|Reading [11:51] <\sh> hmm...python2.4 will still be available in intrepid, right? [11:55] <\sh> Riddell: please apply http://archive.linux-server.org/debdiffs/python-qt4_4.4.3-1ubuntu1.debdiff and reupload to intrepid, thx [11:55] <\sh> argl...FC [12:15] IIUIC, it's ok for a GPL project to copy code from an LGPL project. Is that right? [12:16] yes [12:17] But not the other way around? [12:17] remember that the code retains its original licence [12:17] Oh, it does? [12:17] an LGPL project can import GPL code if it likes - it's just that the work as a whole may now only be released under the terms of the GPL [12:17] I thought the LGPL said that you were free to change the license to GPL. [12:18] actually, yes, that is true in the LGPL case [12:18] Ok.. [12:18] so indeed it would just become pure GPL then [12:18] So if a GPL project takes code from an LGPL project and improves upon it, the LGPL project can't use those improvements. Correct? (without changing their own license, of course) [12:18] that's correct [12:19] unless the owners of the GPL code relicense it back [12:19] Figures.. [12:19] cjwatson: Ok, thanks for clearing that up. [12:22] soren: ok for me to merge your server seed stuff now? [12:22] cjwatson: Oh, by all means. [12:23] I merged my tasksel branch and fixed a cdebconf bug that was causing problems there [12:23] server seed merged [12:23] I'll get the debian-cd stuff done shortly [12:23] hey there... I want to build a GUI with a different look and feel from the OS's default using either GTK (preferred) or QT... [12:23] what are my options? [12:24] http://developer.gnome.org/arch/gtk/themes.html [12:25] links to art.gnome.org which has a good deal of tutorial information [12:26] cjwatson: so you say that with this I can set the theme of my application without modifying the theme of the whole desktop? [12:27] you can do that sort of thing with local resource files, yes [12:27] or local styles [12:27] You can apply a different theme to your application. For an example, see rawstudio. [12:28] * cjwatson <- not an expert [12:29] cjwatson: you are more of an expert in the issue than me ^_^ [12:29] soren: I will do that, thanx for the tip [12:29] vargadanis: np [12:32] soren: do you think that I can even let's say create custom widgets and say set the background image for them just by these local rc files? [12:32] I imagine so. I've never used it myself. [12:33] soren: alright... I will look into that [12:40] mvo: synaptic recommends apt-xapian-index, do you plan to get that into main? [12:40] Riddell: yes I have not written a MIR for it yet though [12:42] mvo: ok, I need one for adept so I'll write one [12:44] aha, excellent [12:51] ogra: About denemo. The last I heard from LaserJock was that it had three chunks of stuff that needed MIR. [12:51] Those being csound, lilypond, and libaubio [12:52] right [12:52] I think csound is best dropped to suggests, as it's an optional audio rendering system, and timidity can also be used to render. [12:52] i asked pitti about lilypond and he didnt find any harm in MIRing it ... i didnt know about the others back then [12:52] denemo doesn't make any sense without lilypond, so that, and the other 4 sources that go with it ought drop in. [12:53] as i mentioned before, i dont really need the midi functionallity in edubuntu but want the notesetting capabilities it offers in edubuntu [12:53] sure it makes sense if you want to write down notes and prnt them out in music class [12:54] THe issue is really with libaubio. It depends on JACK. JACK depends on freebob. [12:54] we never had any midi stuff in edubuntu [12:54] but denemo was always there [12:54] if libaubio doesn't depend on JACK, then denemo and lilypond become less interesting for Studio, which is bad. [12:55] If JACK doesn't depend on freebob, we drop support for all firewire audio interfaces, which is bad. [12:55] freebob is dead upstream. There is a replacement ffado project, but it has yet to reach it's first release. [12:55] what happened to the plan ubuntustudio had to snaitize jack for main ? [12:55] It's waiting on a ffado release. [12:55] will that happen in time for intrepid ? [12:56] No. [12:56] :( [12:57] ogra: That said, while I'm not comfortable with a dead upstream in main, someone else might want to maintain it. [12:57] Alternately, if you look at the feedback to LaserJock's mail to the edubuntu-users mailing list, it seems that at least a couple users would rather install Studio directly for teaching music. [12:58] well, but it was part of edubuntu the last years ... i'm not really comfortable to drop the feature [12:58] and it never did any midi stuff without installing the universe components either [12:58] ogra: Makes sense. Let's wait to hear more from LaserJock, who has been following this more closely. [12:58] right [13:04] mvo: Did you get my email about software-properties-kde ? [13:11] JontheEchidna: yes, thanks a lot! I haven't looked at the merge yet, sorry. I will do it today [13:11] mvo: Ok, I don't want to be pushy or anything, but with the feature freeze coming up I got a bit nervous... [13:11] thanks :) [13:11] thank you :) [13:33] fyi system has been stable for 14 hours since removing console-kit-daemon (244218) === superm1|away is now known as superm1 === Kopfi|offline is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger [14:06] cjwatson: what's the magic you're putting on the end of your kvm command to get the keyboard mapping back to a sane state? [14:08] -k us, probably. [14:09] kirkland: Good news on that front, though. It seems we have a fix that works, that will land withing the next couple of days. [14:09] soren: rock on [14:09] kirkland: aliguori strikes again :) [14:09] \o/ [14:10] good morning [14:10] nxvl: howdy [14:12] waiting for some news [14:12] :D [14:15] kirkland: -k en-us [14:15] cjwatson: cool, thanks [14:15] it doesn't quite work, but it at least fixes arrow keys [14:16] cjwatson: yeah, partitioning in the installer is excruciatingly difficult without arrow keys :-) [14:18] I noticed yesterday that in VMware Player my up arrow takes a screenshot :-) [14:33] ogra, persia: would it make sense to MIR freebob with the expectation that it'll be replaced ASAP? [14:34] LaserJock: As long as someone is willing to maintain freebob, I'm happy with that. I don't have that kind of HW, so don't feel comfortable doing it myself. [14:34] hmm, I don't either [14:35] I tried to look in the denemo ./configure for an option to turn it off [14:36] there wasn't any obvious flag [14:36] See, I'd be opposed to turning it off. While mScore is gaining mindshare, denemo is still the most popular score editor for ubuntustudio [14:37] oh [14:37] why did obody poit me to mscore yet [14:37] *nobody [14:37] I didn't know you wanted it. It's nicer than denemo, but it kinda needs a real soundfont, which makes it a little awkward if you want it on a CD. [14:37] it doesnt even have any deps [14:37] * sistpoty|work hands ogra another n [14:37] (apart from QT) [14:37] ogra: because I checked the number of MIRs I'd have to do to get it [14:38] persia, well, my words should have told you [14:38] all i want in edubuntu is a score editor for note setting [14:38] ogra: mScore needs JACK too, and jack-in-main is the primary blocker here. [14:38] upstream doesnt talk about any midi deps [14:39] http://mscore.sourceforge.net/en/download.php says alsa, cmake, freetype2 and qt4 [14:39] It doesn't have any MIDI deps, it has a built-in soundfont player. It doesn't need a MIDI interpreter (like denemo), but it does need sounds. [14:40] fluid-soundfont is the only free GM/GS soundfont anyone has been able to find, but it's *huge* [14:40] * ogra likes huge [14:40] size does matter, you know ;) [14:40] we have ~400M free space on the edubuntu CD [14:41] space os my smallest concern [14:41] *is [14:41] more like ~188MB free at the moment [14:42] Oh, if you've that much space, mScore is *way* better than denemo, and mScore+MuSE is most of a complete environment ffor iddling about. [14:42] Still needs jack-in-main though, which is about freebob, and not about anything else. [14:43] LaserJock, minus WINFOSS [14:43] which is about 200M [14:43] well, we can trade lilypond for a few more MIRs for mscore [14:43] i see libjack in the deps though [14:44] Right, it's all about freebob. If someone is willing to support freebob-in-main, we're golden. If not, we're sunk either way. [14:44] so.... we need find a victim/volunteer [14:45] And I'll maintain, for the same reasons I did pre-Sevilla, that dropping the freebob dep isn't the right way to solve it, as there are too many users who depend on this. [14:45] pfft ... users ... who cares about *them* [14:46] as long as the devs have fun :P [14:46] ogra: Well, at least I'll stand up for people with fancy firewire audio interfaces that make me drool. If I'm lucky, one of them will demo one for me one day :) [14:48] * ogra used to live in an artists colony some years ago ... i would have had 100s of midi devices to test back then (there were also a lot of musicians... it had the biggest rehearsal center in northern germany attached ... (people like mousse-t come from there)) sadly i lost all contacts to these people [14:48] well, we're looking at removing note-editing altogether here, it'd be nice to come up with something [14:49] * persia checks the freebob mailing list [14:50] "freebob"? A free implementatino of Microsoft Bob? [14:50] soren: ooh! that should fit well in the new PAM framework! === superm1 is now known as superm1|away [14:51] FreeBoB from BeBoB, which is Bridgeco Enhanced BreakOut Box [14:51] Treenaks: That's a very disturbing though. [14:51] t [14:55] ogra: LaserJock: I'm only seeing spam on the FreeBob lists. There is a beta ffado out (http://www.ffado.org/?q=release/beta) which might be usable. Some good reports of it working on Ubuntu in the mailing lists. [14:56] Doesn't work with ALSA or pulseaudio yet, but that likely doesn't matter because most users wouldn't expect to use it. [14:56] Err, to use the ffado backend. [14:57] if users dont expect it, why would we depend on it ? [14:58] ogra: The vast majority of users won't have hardware that requires freebob/ffado. [14:58] then it should become a suggests [14:58] From the perspective of having a note editor in Edubuntu, I don't think it matters that these devices don't work well with ALSA or pulse yet. [14:59] It can't be a suggests: JACK needs to link against the libraries, and the note editors need to be linked against JACK to use JACK. [14:59] I use JACK a lot, but I don't use those backends, because I don't have that hardware. [15:00] The contention is that most Edubuntu users won't mind not being able to use firewire audio interfaces with ASLA or pulse, but want a note editor. [15:02] right [15:03] what does this file mean on archive.u.c/ubuntu: Archive-Update-in-Progress-leningradskaya.canonical.com [15:04] persia: would we be more likely to find somebody to maintain ffado than freebob? [15:05] seems more of a "who's got the hardware" issue [15:05] LaserJock: Given the ffado beta, that's what I'm thinking. [15:06] I could get some of the lower-end HW that it supports this weekend, but I'm just not confident that I understand the subsystems well enough to be more than a tester. [15:14] kees: can you give me your /e/n/interfaces ? [15:15] kees: you appear to have a rather complex setup. would like to take a look at that ;) [15:16] * cjwatson does a snoopy dance [15:16] successful 256MB installation [15:16] (desktop CD) [15:16] Wow! Very nice! [15:16] YAY !! [15:17] This is compcache showing it's colours? [15:17] now try with 75% compcache and 128M :) [15:17] I may do in a bit :) [15:17] though users wont have much fun with such a system once installed :) [15:18] unless we'd carry over compcache into the install [15:19]