[00:00] <cjwatson> so that would be next meeting but one, by bryce's count
[00:00] <cjwatson> james_w: go
[00:02] <james_w> I did the mono-tools merge after we handed out the left over ones as we were approaching DIF. It's still awaiting sponsorship, and in the meantime Debian have switched to webkit for this package.
[00:02] <james_w> our only diff was for mozilla stuff (that debian should have taken eventually), and so this should be a sync
[00:02] <james_w> however, that would need a promotion for webkit-sharp.
[00:02] <cjwatson> james_w: you not being core-dev is confusing me; I'm sure I looked at that and thought "oh, he's core-dev now, he can do it himself)
[00:02] <cjwatson> "
[00:02] <james_w> not even close :-)
[00:03] <james_w> is there a policy on MIRs for language bindings that anyone knows about?
[00:04] <james_w> with both of the responsible people away I want to ask for any help first, as this should really be pre-FF
[00:04] <cjwatson> I don't think there's a strict policy, though I would regard bindings for something that's already in main as fairly uncontroversial
[00:04] <cjwatson> I might want to review it to check that it was just a thin wrapper, but might regard it as trivial
[00:05] <asac> james_w: is mono-tools in main?
[00:05] <james_w> I assumed so, as it was on the list that was divided up
[00:05] <james_w> yeah, it is
[00:05] <asac> monodoc-browser is
[00:06] <cjwatson> mono-tools | 1.2.6-4ubuntu5 |      intrepid | source
[00:06] <james_w> I'd rather not be dealing with it, but it looked like an easy merge at the time.
[00:06] <james_w> directhex, who alerted me to this, said that the current merge would be better than nothing, but obviously syncing would be better
[00:06] <asac> james_w: have you tested for regressions with webkit? liferea had regressions, so i wonder.
[00:07] <james_w> asac: I have no idea how webkit is even used in the package
[00:07] <james_w> This is all just based on comments by directhex in the bug
[00:08] <james_w> (bug 243093)
[00:08] <asac> james_w: well. monodoc-browser used gecko in the past to render the documentation pages
[00:08] <asac> which probably would be replaced with webkit
[00:08] <james_w> anyway, I'll either hang on for doko or pitti, or write the MIR
[00:08] <kees> eww webkit...  only 22 CVEs in the last few years.  http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=webkit
[00:09] <cjwatson> webkit's already in main
[00:09] <cjwatson> webkit-sharp is the matter under discussion
[00:09] <asac> anyone knows why we need monodoc in main? (which appears to pull in monodoc-browser)
[00:10]  * cjwatson looks up the germinate-output bible
[00:10] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/rdepends/ALL/monodoc
[00:10] <cjwatson> so seeded and no other rdepends
[00:10] <asac> yeah. if possible i'd like to demote that.
[00:11] <slangasek> hrm, seeded? I thought it was a build-dep of something
[00:11] <cjwatson> we included it as part of a general policy that all software in main should also have documentation (or relevant documentation tools) in main
[00:11] <cjwatson> is there a particular reason why this shouldn't apply to mono?
[00:11] <cjwatson> I mean documentation if any, of course
[00:12] <asac> ok. and we need the default browser for that documentation?
[00:12] <cjwatson> not necessarily, if there's another usable one then that would be fine
[00:12] <cjwatson> I don't know mono well enough to speak to that
[00:14] <calc> webkit is going to be used by gnome for the next release anyway (iirc?)
[00:14] <slangasek> webkit is already in main and is not a point of contention
[00:14] <cjwatson> if there's something else that works, feel free to unseed it with a suitable comment - I guess just making sure that monodoc-manual is still seeded would be a good idea
[00:15] <cjwatson> ok, we're over time; anything else urgent?
[00:15] <calc> oh ok
[00:19] <cjwatson> I guess that's it, then; good luck for feature freeze and I hope to be more around next week once I'm back home!
[00:19] <liw> thanks
[00:19] <TheMuso> Thanks all.
[00:19] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[00:19] <james_w> thanks all
[00:19] <slangasek> thanks :)
[00:20] <evand> thanks
[00:21] <asac> thx
[13:00] <lool> So hmm "Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team"
[13:00] <lool> #startmeeting
[13:00]  * ogra looks around
[13:00]  * persia sites quietly at the front, with notes in disarray
[13:01] <lool> Looks like there's something broken with the meeting bot
[13:01]  * ogra pokes MootBot 
[13:01] <persia> Yep.  MootBot has been taking a long weekend the past several days.
[13:01] <lool> Let's do without then
[13:02] <ogra> is StevenK here ?
[13:02] <lool> First, action items from last week; uhoh my name is repeated all over the place
[13:02] <ogra> ... doesnt look like
[13:02] <persia> We can still use MootBot commands to structure the meeting, which might make writing minutes easier later.
[13:02] <lool> [topic] Action Items from August 14th, 2008
[13:02] <lool> * lool the investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits [carry forward]
[13:02] <persia> What's the URL to the agenda again?
[13:02] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080821
[13:02] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080821
[13:02] <ogra> bah ... i'm beaten
[13:02] <lool> So I started poking xulrunner for a couple of hours, but that's all
[13:03] <lool> Concerning langpacks, I dropped a mail to Jeroen; I expect updates will happen before Alpha 5
[13:03] <lool> linux-lpia: I still have no idea what I supposed to check, but it's in intrepid  :)
[13:03] <lool> # lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status
[13:04] <lool> I reviewed the packaging of libwpeditor-plus and modest in depth in Debian; these look ready to be uploaded except for modest requiring hildon-fm
[13:04] <lool> hildon-fm is still broken in intrepid, so I need to look into the gtk+2.0 filechooser patch
[13:04] <emgent> hello
[13:05] <lool> So this is still on my TODO list; I made good progress on the direct packages themselves; I only need to review copyright on them
[13:05] <lool> # lool to purchase USB web camera
[13:05] <lool> didn
[13:05] <lool> I didn't
[13:05]  * ogra has several 
[13:05] <StevenK> Oops
[13:05] <lool> # lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9)
[13:05] <lool> we didn't
[13:06] <lool> so I'll carry forward the last two actions; but please allow me to move modest/libwpeditor-plus and xulrunner/langpacks to my status report
[13:06] <lool> [action] lool to purchase USB web camera (carried over)
[13:06] <lool> [action] lool+davidm test Ekiga 2.9
[13:07] <lool> We might test Ekiga this WE with davidm as we will meet face to face  :-P
[13:07] <lool> Moving to current items
[13:07] <lool> [topic] Current items
[13:07] <lool> Not sure who proposed the sponsoring queue: please add your name to the items you propose
[13:07] <lool> [topic] # Status of sponsoring queue? (3 hours accomplished)
[13:08] <lool> davidm did
[13:08] <lool> Not sure what he meant; I personally am fine with my main sponsoring queue assigned items
[13:09] <lool> ogra: you have a bunch of items to sponsor
[13:09] <lool> or you had :)
[13:09] <ogra> i do ?
[13:09] <lool> persia: you only have one
[13:09] <lool> ogra: says daniel's last sponsoring overview
[13:09] <ogra> thats general ubuntu stuff though
[13:09] <persia> lool: No, I have lots and lots, but I very much doubt I'm capable of sponsoring the thing you imagine I'm supposed to sponsor.
[13:09] <ogra> not really mobile ... but right
[13:09] <lool> ogra: Not sure what the topic is there for though  :-/
[13:10] <persia> Really doesn't belong in this meeting.
[13:10] <lool> persia: Assigned to you?
[13:10] <ogra> well, my sponsoring usually falls under edubuntu
[13:10] <lool> Ok; I'm happy to move to next topic -- I have no idea what we have to discuss here anyway
[13:10] <persia> lool: I'm not core-dev.  Nothing is assigned to me.  I am a UUS admin, so I've quite a few I need to get done.
[13:10] <ogra> or powermanager/screensaver until tedg makes his MOTU
[13:10] <lool> I agree it's not mobile specicif
[13:11] <lool> persia: Hmm for some reason I thought you were core dev
[13:11] <ogra> we should ask david about it
[13:11] <lool> persia: The sponsoring overview shows http://launchpad.net/bugs/243948 FYI
[13:11] <persia> lool: It's a common misconception :)
[13:11] <persia> Right, I can't upload apt :)
[13:11] <lool> persia: You should sort that with dholbach IMO :)
[13:11] <ogra> persia, about time for core-dev then
[13:12] <ogra> i mean you should be ready for that ;)
[13:12] <lool> [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm)
[13:12] <persia> ogra: I've done a couple patches for main this cycle, but none that were accepted.  I need a track record before I can pass the MC requirements for core-dev.
[13:12] <lool> [topic] StevenK status: livecd-rootfs, merges?
[13:12] <lool> StevenK: How is it going?  Got help from cjwatson on integrating your stuff?  pushed your livecd-rootfs patches?
[13:13] <lool> StevenK: With us?
[13:14] <StevenK> lool: Yes
[13:14] <StevenK> lool: Not yet
[13:14] <lool> StevenK: What's your status for other intrepid tasks in your pipe otherwise?
[13:15] <StevenK> lool: Hmmm.
[13:15] <StevenK> lool: Most of my merges are done/ignorable
[13:16] <lool> Ok
[13:16] <lool> Anything else you'd like to mention or I'm moving to persia?
[13:16] <StevenK> Just checking todo list
[13:17] <StevenK> Nope, basically trying to get images done
[13:17] <lool> [topic] persia status: installer, merges, ...?
[13:18] <lool> persia: So, how is it going there?
[13:18] <persia> So, I stopped trying to make the installer look good, and started looking at making it work.
[13:18] <persia> In the last d-i run I did, we had four issues that need to be sorted.
[13:19] <persia> 1) the partition types for lpia are unknown to d-i
[13:19] <persia> 2) We don't install a kernel
[13:19] <ogra> uh, 1-> why is that ? arent they standard ext3 ?
[13:19] <persia> 3) We have no useful tasks defined (currently choices are OpenSSH server and ubuntu-desktop)
[13:19] <persia> 4) tasksel crashes anyway because there is no aptitude
[13:20] <persia> 3 & 4 ought be fairly easy to fix.
[13:20] <ogra> how do we go about 3 ?
[13:20] <StevenK> The installer doesn't install a kernel?
[13:20] <lool> persia: 1) the partition types?!?
[13:20] <persia> 2 currently baffles me, but I haven't dug into it much.
[13:20]  * ogra proposed having ubuntu-mobile depend on -desktop and just apply ubuntu-mobile-settings for now 
[13:20] <persia> For 1, we just need to patch d-i to know that lpia likes msdos partitions, which is trivial.
[13:20] <ogra> as additional pkg
[13:20] <persia> ogra: You don't want to drop any packages?
[13:21] <cgregan> bah...kernel...do we really need it?! :-)
[13:21] <ogra> we might, but tha should be possible through the seeds
[13:21] <lool> ogra: We're looking at ubuntu-mid ATM
[13:21] <lool> AIUI
[13:21] <ogra> (not sure anyone tested that, but i think cjwatson added such functionallity)
[13:22] <persia> lool: Why?  The installer is expected to be meta-agnostic, although I'm only planning a ubiquity image for ubuntu-mid
[13:23] <lool> persia: Well it's nice if it is, but for feature parity I mostly care that we get a MID image
[13:23] <lool> not a subnotebook one
[13:23] <persia> lool: There are basically three steps involved.
[13:23] <persia> Step one is getting the installer to work on lpia (nearly done)
[13:23] <persia> Step two is making sure our metas appear as install options for the installer
[13:24] <persia> Step three is creating a ubiquity image for ubuntu-mid.
[13:24] <persia> The flavour doesn't become important until step 3.
[13:25] <lool> persia: On which points of the above list do you need help?
[13:26] <persia> lool: Step 3 is the fussiest.  I'd really like to get the ubiquity interface to look nice with 480 vertical pixels (really 416), but had no success.  At this point, I no longer care about it looking nice, as long as it works.
[13:26] <lool> Sorry, I meant the list of 4 issues you mentionned earlier
[13:26] <persia> For steps 1 and 2 I likely need some help getting stuff integrated from the installer team, but that's not so bad.
[13:27] <ogra> why 416?
[13:27] <persia> Oh, for the broiken issues?  If someone else wants to look at why we don't get a kernel, that would be handy.  I at least understand what's happening in the other casesw.
[13:27] <ogra> you can just run it fullscreen :9
[13:27] <persia> ogra: 480 - 32 - 32
[13:27] <lool> ogra: panels
[13:27] <persia> That doesn't help, because it's about 520 pixels high.
[13:28] <ogra> lool, right thats what i meant
[13:28] <persia> Alternately, if nobody else looks at them, I expect I can sort the other three tomorrow, and look into the kernel.
[13:28] <ogra> put it above the panels in real fullscreen
[13:28] <ogra> users can click cancel
[13:28] <persia> I know that StevenK's image builder does handle the kernel issue, so it's just a d-i thing.
[13:29] <lool> persia: Is there a way to try this out?  even borken
[13:29] <persia> lool: Sure.  Download the daily lpia alternate CD and install in KVM.
[13:29] <persia> If my expectations for tomorrow are correct, Monday's image ought to install, although I'm not sure if we'll have a kernel or not.
[13:30] <lool> persia: When are you moving to live image / ubiquity testing of your bits?
[13:30] <ogra> persia, why do you run a desktop at all ? i would just use a .xsession that runs ubuquity standalone
[13:30] <ogra> *ubiquity
[13:30] <persia> ogra: Because it's a live session.
[13:30] <lool> ogra: Fortunately you didn't write ubugquity
[13:30] <ogra> heh
[13:31] <lool> ogra: Same reasons as Ubuntu live CD?
[13:31] <ogra> persia, whats the problem defining a different desktop session ? we have the ubiquitiy-only or only-ubiquity bootparam already
[13:31] <persia> lool: StevenK finished what look to be the last bits that I had issues with for livecd-rootfs today.  I'll probably be looking at a noninteractive tomorrow afternoon.
[13:31] <ogra> (not sure how its called atm)
[13:31] <lool> persia: Cool
[13:32] <ogra> lool, right but we had a session that adressed this
[13:32] <persia> ogra: It's different and requires more thought?  Anyway, I'd rather mirror the existing setup as much as possible.
[13:32] <ogra> i'D propose to use that
[13:32] <persia> Anyway, on to merges:
[13:32] <lool> persia: Could you mail the list when you have something demonstrating it (even with some brokeness)
[13:32] <ogra> persia, that is in the existing setup of the liveCD
[13:32] <persia> I've grabbed another copy of the PPA locally, and started to review what is and what isn't in intrepid.
[13:33] <persia> We're looking pretty good, and unless something goes disastrously wrong with my expectations for installer work, I should be able to push the majority of the interesting ones by Wednesday.
[13:33] <persia> I'll scream if I get behind, and publish a list of things needing doing.
[13:33] <ogra> persia, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/148341
[13:34] <ogra> its just a casper option ... and will save you a lot of grief with screensize
[13:34] <persia> ogra: Do you really want it done that way?  I like the idea of a "install" button, but can do it that way.
[13:34] <ogra> well, it makes the screen you can use bigger
[13:34] <ogra> i like that too, but not for 800x480
[13:34] <ogra> 50px extra height is a lot there
[13:35] <persia> ogra: Hmm.  I'm still not sure it would fit in 480 pixels, but I'll give it a shot.
[13:35] <lool> I personally don't mind if we support either or both; as long as it's not a deep infrastructural change
[13:35] <ogra> decide yourself ... i just think it makes your job easier for now
[13:36]  * ogra would swich that on dynamically depending on available screensize 
[13:36] <lool> I agree that ogra that it might be a time saver if we can save ourselves from tweaking 20 ubiquity screens by gaining some pixels; but I don't know how much work we really have on the table either way
[13:36] <persia> ogra: Perhaps.  Last I looked it was over 480.
[13:36] <lool> Ok; persia anything else on your intrepid tasks you'd like to discuss?
[13:36] <persia> Anyway, I'll check that out, and let people know.
[13:37] <lool> persia: thanks
[13:37] <ogra> persia, your tsk, your decision :)
[13:37] <ogra> *task
[13:37] <lool> I guess I can move one?
[13:37] <persia> Not really.  I still haven't pushed the bluez-gnome update I want, or finished the migration of ume-config-* to something more flexible, but neither is really blocking.
[13:37] <lool> (geez sorry for the typos)
[13:38] <ogra> lool, welcome to hte culb
[13:38] <ogra> :P
[13:38] <lool> persia: Is the bluez update MID related?
[13:38] <lool> ogra: hte culb :)
[13:39] <persia> lool: Don't we install bluez-gnome for the bluetooth icon on ubuntu-mid?  I thought it was the same stack, but if it's not, I can miss for intrepid, as Debian will be updating post-Lenny.
[13:40] <lool> persia: I don't understand the connection between the bluez-gnome upadte and MID work
[13:40] <lool> (I'm happy if we get the latest bluez-gnome, I'm just trying to understand whether you're fighting e.g. an issue on MIDs)
[13:40] <ogra> dont we use the bluez applet in MID ?
[13:40] <persia> lool: It's an app that we install that I want to update in the hopes that it won't crash so much, because in hardy it crashes on connect, which takes down hildon-desktop, which takes down X.
[13:41] <lool> Ok; just a regular update, nothing ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu-mid/hildon/moblin specific
[13:41] <lool> Thanks for the clarification
[13:41] <persia> I've not confirmed that it fixes it, but it's the only part of the updated BlueZ stable suite that we don't currently match, and upstream is now focusing on 4.0, so it's just bugfixes.
[13:42] <lool> I wasn't sure whether I was missing some piece of MID specific work we had been putting in bluez
[13:42] <lool> Ok; may I move on?
[13:42] <persia> I'm fairly sure most of that went upstream, but there's a bit of stuff from netbook-remix that I'm also trying to integrate.
[13:43] <lool> Ok, moving on
[13:43] <persia> Yeah, please move on :)
[13:43] <lool> [topic] lool status: MIC merges, etc.?
[13:44] <lool> So I've had reply from moblin people faster than expected on the MIC patch stack; I've been reviewing merges in depth, and checked that we get exactly as much functionality in the merged patches as we have in our tree
[13:45] <lool> It also spinned many side discussions on misc issues I have with MIC in general; details no dev@moblin.org but it's around fsets, platforms and the like
[13:45] <lool> So work is ongoing there and progressing at a good pace
[13:45] <lool> Doesn't really impact intrepid though
[13:46] <lool> Other things I've been worked on were shortly mentionned here; I also poked some desktop-ish bits which don't belong here (pangomm, elisa -- still in progress)
[13:46] <lool> That's about it for *intrepid* related work
[13:47] <lool> I'm happy to answer any question on these topics if you have any; I don't have particular blockers on these tasks
[13:47] <lool> About to move to ogra's status...
[13:48] <lool> [topic] ogra status
[13:48] <ogra> classmate -> image is ready with colins changs to the build tool .... new bug showed up ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/258110
[13:48] <lool> ogra: No particular topics connected with your status update
[13:48] <ogra> which was apparently set to critical tonight :(
[13:48] <lool> But I wanted to ask about health and cmpc :)
[13:49] <lool> ogra: I came across this and wondered whether it was truly a functional requirement for the cmpc release
[13:49] <ogra> health is ok ... nothing was found, i'm taking blood thinners and moved from 40-60 cigarettes to 5/day in spirit of dholbach :)
[13:49] <lool> Sure recording video "would be nice", not sure why it's suddently RC
[13:49] <lool> haha 5-a-day for cigarettes
[13:49] <ogra> no idea, and intel was made aware by me that cheese might no be ready when they asked for cheese inclusion
[13:50] <lool> "Fix 5 bugs before allowing you to a smoke" might also work
[13:50] <ogra> for the mobile team i still dont have a fixed role defined
[13:50] <ogra> so my assumption is that i care for the -mobile seed and general hw/platform enablement
[13:51] <ogra> for that i worked on a gnome-mid setup http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/cellwriter.png and currently poke around with upstream hal on touchscreen enablement in hal-input
[13:51] <lool> ogra: Well we don't have very strict roles either; we mostly reports on current tasks and the tasks were discussed at UDS; I'm happy if you take good care of the mobile seed though
[13:51] <lool> Perhaps we should
[13:51] <lool> 10 minutes warning
[13:52] <ogra> well, i'm still waiting on my official team move ...
[13:52] <lool> ah
[13:52] <ogra> i expect to have some clearification with that
[13:52] <ogra> david said they would discuss it this week on london
[13:52] <lool> Ok
[13:53] <lool> Anything else you'd like to discuss on intrepid tasks?
[13:54] <lool> Otherwise I'll move to the last topic
[13:54] <ogra> no, i'm fine
[13:54] <lool> [topic] Switch claws with modest/libwpeditor libwpeditor-plus?
[13:54] <lool> Who proposed the topic?  davidm?
[13:54] <ogra> why are we stuck with sylpheed ?
[13:55] <ogra> TB seems to work just fine
[13:55] <lool> TB?
[13:55] <ogra> without having to hack it up
[13:55] <ogra> thunderbird
[13:55] <ogra> i use it in the cmpc image on request
[13:55] <lool> Hmm I'm not sure we ever considered thunderbird
[13:56] <ogra> neither of them has e-d-s integration so imho they are equivalent
[13:56] <lool> thunderbird is fine by me at all rates; we have xulrunner software in the platform anyway
[13:56] <persia> We've already got xul loaded, so thunderbird probably isn't even that resource intensive.
[13:56] <ogra> but TB doesnt need patching
[13:56] <lool> claws is okay; it's solid and rich but a bit complex for the screen estate
[13:56] <StevenK> TB might be too big
[13:56] <persia> What about tinymail.  StevenK, weren't you working on that?
[13:56] <lool> The biggest issue with claws are the bdeps
[13:56] <StevenK> tinymail is just a library
[13:56] <lool> Concerning modest, it's hard to judge without uptodate packages
[13:56] <StevenK> Which modest uses
[13:56] <ogra> StevenK, big in what context ? screen or appsize ?
[13:56] <StevenK> ogra: Former
[13:56] <lool> persia: tinymail is the lib counterpart of modest
[13:57] <ogra> StevenK, it works on the classmate at 800x480
[13:57] <lool> I've used thunderbird for a long time at previous job and was satisfied with it in the previous versions
[13:57] <lool> It's simple and clear
[13:58] <lool> Modest might be more lightweight; it's well integrated with hildon libs AFAICT, but we're missing some and are moving away of hildon
[13:58] <persia> What?  We're moving away from hildon again?  I thought we decided last week that we were keeping hildon.
[13:58]  * persia is very confused
[13:58] <ogra> i'm all for tinymail, but i dont see it ready yet or in the near future
[13:58] <lool> persia: I mean on the long term
[13:58] <lool> Was about to add "on the long term"
[13:58] <ogra> e-d-s integration is a good thing
[13:58]  * persia only cares about intrepid right now
[13:58] <lool> persia: I care about intrepid too :)
[13:59] <lool> So if TB works decently and we can keep it when moving away from hildon it's a plus
[13:59] <ogra> we should test it more ... but i didnt find any issues on the cmpc
[13:59] <lool> ogra: I think tinymail and modest landed some good versions now
[13:59] <ogra> (apart from requiring extra langpacks)
[13:59] <lool> ogra: It's not purely development mode anymore
[14:00] <lool> ogra: I'll test it on diablo and report
[14:00] <ogra> ah
[14:00] <lool> Hmm we're over time
[14:00] <ogra> good, we actually filled the meeting with content :)
[14:00] <lool> I'm afraid we'll have to defer to next week to pursue the discussion?
[14:00] <persia> Desktop meeting is cancelled this week, so time is not as critical a factor.
[14:00] <lool> I'd like to take a decision, but lack of uptodate modest and lack of davidm makes it harder
[14:00] <lool> persia: Ah indeed
[14:01] <ogra> we can surely take the decision next week with david available
[14:01] <lool> So to sum up: ogra=pro TB, uses on cmpc
[14:01] <lool> persia=ok with TB, we have xul already
[14:01] <persia> My worry with deferring a week is that next meeting *is* feature freeze.
[14:01] <lool> StevenK=TB might be too big in screen estate
[14:02] <ogra> persia, freeze isnt set in stone
[14:02] <persia> ogra: can you post a screenshot of TB at 800x480?
[14:02] <lool> lool=TB might be a good option for intrepid and intrepid+1, modest needs a refresh to be evaluated decently
[14:02] <ogra> persia, TB is in main, its just a trivial seed change
[14:02] <lool> Anyone in *favor* of keeping claws?
[14:02] <persia> lool: So modest just isn't going to make it for intrepid?
[14:02] <lool> persia: It could
[14:02] <lool> I'll try hard to push it this week
[14:03] <lool> So nobody in favor of claws?
[14:04] <StevenK> claws is unsuitable for main
[14:04] <lool> I personally don't find it well suited for MIDs, but it was a decent Gtk+ client
[14:05] <lool> Ok; shall we defer final decision to next week?
[14:05] <ogra> sabdfl uses TB :) thats a sight guarantee it will stay in main and suported
[14:05] <ogra> ;)
[14:05] <lool> heh
[14:05] <persia> I was a claws user for years, and recently stopped due to bugginess of various sorts.  It simply crashes too often, which is especially painful under hildon-desktop
[14:06] <lool> So the open choice is clearly replace claws with modest or TB; many people with TB positive experience, not enough data for modest yet
[14:06] <lool> Let's check next week
[14:06] <ogra> yeah
[14:06] <lool> About to close the meeting then; unless anyone would like to add a last minute topic
[14:07] <lool> #endmeeting
[14:07] <ogra> yay
[14:07] <lool> Meeting closed, thanks everybody
[14:07] <ogra> thanks
[14:07] <persia> thanks for hosting lool
[14:07]  * ogra goes lunching
[14:12] <lool> .wub 1
[15:00] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[15:00] <dalibor> here
[15:01] <dalibor> hi Koon
[15:01] <Koon> hey guys
[15:02]  * dalibor quickly reboots his intrepid laptop
[15:02] <persia> #startmeeting
[15:02] <persia> [TOPIC] Roadmap review
[15:03] <persia> dalibor: How is progress on identifying tasks for the server stack?
[15:03] <dalibor> i've gone ahead and tried to build glassfish from source, to get a grasp on it
[15:04] <dalibor> checked out from latest svn, on intrepid, using mavn2 from intrepid
[15:04] <dalibor> the regula rmaven build works (i haven't tried out koon's ppa package yet)
[15:04] <dalibor> and it doewloads quite a bunch of jars overall
[15:05] <persia> Right, the trick being that the buildds don't have internet access.
[15:05] <dalibor> most of those are either glassfish/sun specific, so should not be a mavvise problem
[15:05] <dalibor> another large chunk are maven bits and pieces (plugins, plexus,etc.)
[15:05] <dalibor> and then there is the rest of ~ 100 jars, that boild down to a lot fewer dependecies, actually,
[15:06] <dalibor> since most of them are, as I feared, present in multiple versions
[15:06] <dalibor> running the mvn dependency analysis tools works, which is neat
[15:06] <dalibor> and tells you what part of the build requires which dependecies
[15:07] <dalibor> so from the tooling perspecitve, i thnk the 'let's see how it works for a build, then try to figure out where the dependecies are coming from, and which we need to package' should work fine.
[15:08] <dalibor> it's the figuring our which we need to package that may be a bit tricky
[15:08] <dalibor> since it may be necessary to figure out whether some jars need to be present in multiple versions
[15:09] <dalibor> and if my X was working I'd actually be ableto give you an overview of what's required in there Ö
[15:09] <persia> OK.  So things are starting to get in shape, but still nothing ready to pass out as tasks?
[15:10] <dalibor> so, coming back to it all, the next step would be to do the same for other things we are interested in, and figure out a way to automate the matching step
[15:11] <dalibor> i#ve played a bit with trying to script that, and getting apt-cache to do my bidding,
[15:11] <dalibor> but nothing really useful yet
[15:11] <dalibor> except that I can tell that a good deal of the dependencies has actually been packaged already
[15:11] <dalibor> but may or may not be in the version necessary for the build.
[15:12] <persia> That's good news.  If we could even get a list of needs-packaging bugs, we could start targetting it.
[15:12] <dalibor> once I have that automated, the tasks will fall out of that pretty straightforward, i think.
[15:12] <persia> Then getting them updated or getting the software to build with them becomes an achievable goal.
[15:12] <dalibor> yep
[15:13] <persia> Next is slytherin: are you here?
[15:13] <dalibor> deends on the offline supoprt for maven, fof course, but I'm moving n assuming koon & team will find a good way to handle it.
[15:13] <persia> dalibor: That makes sense.  I think as things get broken out, sharing the workload is best.  Once you finish the breakdown, we'll look to you for something else, of course :)
[15:14] <persia> OK.  No word from slytherin, so we'll skip optimisation and universe transition this week,
[15:14] <persia> Koon: Any word on maven?  I remember seeing some discussion about 10 days ago in #ubuntu-java.
[15:15] <Koon> I was on vacation last week so I have no update on this. kaaloo proposed a different implementation
[15:15] <Koon> based on a proxy
[15:15] <persia> kaaloo: Are you about?  How is that going?
[15:16] <dalibor> nope, he's not there
[15:16] <Koon> he added the design to the Spec page
[15:16] <persia> OK.  Anything else to report about maven this week?
[15:17] <Koon> not from my side. kaaloo proposal was the only feedback to my mvn-jpp testing proposal so far
[15:17] <persia> OK.
[15:17] <Koon> I might have more time after feature freeze
[15:17] <Koon> but not atm :)
[15:17] <persia> As a general note, Feature Freeze is next week, so I think most of this is going to be intrepid+1 stuff.
[15:17] <persia> Next up
[15:18] <persia> [TOPIC] Developer week
[15:18] <persia> So, Developer week is coming up.
[15:18] <persia> We've had a couple requests for someone to lead sessions on Java stuff.
[15:18] <persia> Anyone want to volunteer to lead a session?
[15:19] <dalibor> url ?
[15:21] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the schedule-as-work-in-progress
[15:21] <dalibor> thanks, persia
[15:24] <dalibor> unfortunately, next week is bad for me
[15:25] <persia> Anyone else?
[15:25] <persia> (and it's the week past next)
[15:26] <Koon> I don't feel comfortable talking about Ubuntu Java support yet.
[15:26] <Koon> wait at least for my Universe Contributors Application :)
[15:27] <persia> Right.  Maybe someone can convince one of those with more experience (doko, man-di) to give a session.
[15:27] <persia> [TOPIC] Other Business
[15:27] <persia> Anyone have any last minute additions to the agenda?
[15:30] <persia> RIght.  See you next week then.
[15:30] <persia> #endmeeting
[15:30] <Koon> thanks persia
[15:31] <persia> Koon: No, thank you.  I just lead meetings, but you're one of the task leaders making the team happen.
[15:34] <Koon> persia: which makes me think... I should submit an universe contributor application soon, would you consider adding a short endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez ?
[15:34] <Koon> then I'll let you know when I send the application mail to the ML.
[15:38] <cody-somerville> Koon, I think Persia will know
[15:38] <cody-somerville> Koon, Since he is on the MOTU Council
[15:38] <Koon> cody-somerville: sure ;)
[15:38] <cody-somerville> ;]
[15:39] <persia> Koon: Feel free to cc me as someone who would endorse your UUC application.
[15:39] <Koon> persia: ok, thx
[15:42] <slytherin> is the java meeting over?
[15:42] <Koon> slytherin: yes
[15:43] <slytherin> Koon: damn, network problems in office. :-(
[15:45] <persia> slytherin: If you want to give a quick precis on your roadmap items in #ubuntu-java, most of us are still there.
[15:47] <slytherin> persia: I didn't find any time all this week to work on java packages. The only good thing that happened is the sync request I had logged are done. So jaranalyzer is in. I have to now file sync and move to universe bugs for some more libraries.