[12:02] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r110 ubuntu/ (4 files in 2 dirs): merge ecryptfs-private branch
[12:14] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r111 ubuntu/debian/po/ (60 files): debconf-updatepo
[12:15] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r112 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.20ubuntu5
[12:58] <cjwatson> davmor2: there's a bunch of oem-config stuff in bzr; I'm just going to upload it and see if it helps
[12:58] <CIA-2> oem-config: cjwatson * r506 oem-config/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[12:58] <CIA-2> oem-config: Automatic update of included source packages: localechooser 2.03ubuntu2,
[12:58] <CIA-2> oem-config: user-setup 1.20ubuntu4.
[12:59] <CIA-2> oem-config: cjwatson * r507 oem-config/debian/changelog: people don't seem satisfied with this fix
[13:02] <CIA-2> oem-config: cjwatson * r508 oem-config/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.45
[13:13] <davmor2> cjwatson: when is likely to be in an iso?  Monday?
[13:14] <cjwatson> tomorrow, assuming successful builds
[13:15] <cjwatson> we don't shut down the builds for the weekend ;-)
[13:20] <davmor2> cjwatson: I wasn't sure that they were worked on over the weekend :)  Np's I'll try tomorrow night then and let you know as soon as I do :)
[16:20] <superm1> hum it appears CIA decided not to show a bunch of commits of mine.  i've got 4 or so that were relevant to the mythbuntu fe only
[16:22] <evand> yeah, it's good for that
[16:22] <cjwatson> evand: what is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/stable (seems to be a Windows executable) and can it not be there?
[16:23] <evand> was this my doing?
[16:23] <evand> I don't recall making that
[16:23] <cjwatson> dunno, I thought you might know :)
[16:23] <cjwatson> maybe an accidental result of ln?
[16:24] <evand> heh, I don't think it was me.  Perhaps slangasek?
[16:24] <evand> as I believe he set up Wubi for the ubuntu.com site.
[16:25] <evand> during 8.04 development
[16:49] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2775 ubiquity/ (build/ltmain.sh configure configure.ac): bump to 1.9.10
[16:51] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2776 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[16:51] <CIA-2> ubiquity: Automatic update of included source packages: base-installer
[16:51] <CIA-2> ubiquity: 1.86ubuntu4, partman-efi 17ubuntu2, partman-partitioning 59ubuntu4,
[16:51] <CIA-2> ubiquity: partman-target 55ubuntu3, user-setup 1.20ubuntu5.
[17:06] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2777 ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/mythbuntu_ui.py: whitespace matters in python! :-)
[17:08] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2778 ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/mythbuntu_ui.py: more whitespace
[17:10] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2779 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.9.10
[18:12] <mpt> evand, do you have time to discuss ye olde timezone selector map?
[18:22] <evand> mpt: surely
[18:23] <evand> mpt: Are you aware of the somewhat redesign of it going on in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbiquityVisualRefresh ?
[18:23] <mpt> not really
[18:23]  * mpt reads
[18:25] <mpt> aha
[18:28] <mpt> yay for no more zooming necessary
[18:29] <evand> exactly :)
[18:30] <mpt> evand, instead of having one menu for the timezone, and another for the cities in that timezone, how about making the map keyboard-accessible?
[18:31] <mpt> e.g. Left = previous, Right = next
[18:31] <mpt> and give the UTC offset as a caption underneath
[18:32] <evand> so adding keybindings or replacing the menus with keybindings?
[18:32] <evand> slightly confused
[18:33] <mpt> Instead of the timezone menu, let people use the keyboard (as well as the mouse) to choose a timezone in the map itself
[18:33] <mpt> You'd still have the separat menu of cities.
[18:33] <mpt> +e
[18:34] <evand> ah, indeed that's sort of the plan, though we were going to keep the drop down list for those that didn't want to bother with the map itself
[18:35] <evand> the timezone drop down list, that is
[18:35] <evand> it would also obviously change to the selection, should the user pick a timezone from the map
[18:36] <mpt> sure
[18:36] <mpt> but why would they not want to bother with the map in the first place?
[18:36]  * evand tries to recall the conversation
[18:36] <mpt> It would be more elegant to solve that problem than to have extra widgets to work around it
[18:37] <evand> noted, perhaps it's best to try it as you suggest and see what people complain with
[18:37] <evand> see what reasons*
[18:37] <cjwatson> they might not want to bother with the map because they have trouble using the mouse
[18:37] <evand> as I cannot recall exactly why we thought they wouldn't want to bother with the map itself
[18:37] <cjwatson> accessibility
[18:37] <mpt> cjwatson, that's why I'm suggesting making it usable with the keyboard :-)
[18:37] <cjwatson> I'll sic heno on you :)
[18:37] <evand> but assuming the map is accessible?
[18:38] <evand> haha
[18:45] <mpt> TBH I'm more interested in the partitioning than the map, but Keybuk pointed me in the direction of the map :-)
[18:48] <mpt> whoa, you were planning *three* ways of choosing a time zone -- map, menu, and previous/next buttons
[18:54] <evand> Hrm, how would you propose we let them use the keyboard to navigate both the timezones and cities?  My original thought for keyboard navigation was just for navigating between the timezones themselves (as it tries to pick a reasonable default anyway).
[18:56] <mpt> sure, you'd still need the menu for the cities -- both because it would be necessary with the keyboard, and because it would be fiddly (especially without zoom) with the mouse
[18:56] <mpt> well, hmm
[18:57] <evand> ah, indeed
[18:57] <mpt> This idea might be full of crack, but if Left/Right in the map navigate between time zones, Up/Down could navigate between cities by latitude in the selected time zone :-)
[18:58] <evand> I thought about that, but also thought it might be crackful and hard to discover :)
[18:58] <mpt> yes
[19:00] <mpt> I suppose that could still be *possible*, even if it's not advertised and not the canonical way of choosing a city
[19:00] <mpt> hmm, no, even that would be weird
[19:01] <mpt> because it would mean Up/Down navigated through cities in one order (by latitude) in the map, and in a completely different order (alphabetically) in the menu
[19:02] <mpt> anyway, I updated the spec to cover making the map accessible
[19:02] <mpt> haha, Banshee's chart is such a rip-off of the iTunes one
[19:02] <mpt> right down to the meaningless segment borders
[19:02] <evand> thanks, very much appreciated
[19:03] <evand> banshee> but it looks good :)
[19:04] <mpt> If only the rest of the window looked that nice :-)
[19:05] <evand> haha, touche
[19:06] <mpt> "A partition layout graphic ... will be added to the top of the ... manual partitioning pages" -- does that mean that page will have *two* partition layout graphics?
[19:06] <mpt> One done by you, one done by gparted?
[19:07] <evand> typo
[19:07] <evand> automatic and manual page
[19:07] <mpt> yes, it says "the top of the automatic partitioning and manual partitioning pages"
[19:08] <mpt> What I mean is, why at the top of the manual partitioning page?
[19:08] <evand> I thought visual representation of textual data might help them better understand the actions they were performing on that page
[19:10] <mpt> Oh, I'm sorry, I'm misremembering it
[19:10] <mpt> gparted standalone shows a diagram already, Ubiquity does not
[19:12] <evand> indeed
[19:12] <evand> and no worries
[19:16] <mpt> Would be nice if the chart was clickable and draggable :-)
[19:17] <evand> one step at a time :)
[19:18] <evand> but feel free to add such ideas to the wiki page for future consideration
[19:19] <evand> I'm just constrained by the quickly approaching freeze for such heavy changes now.
[19:20] <mpt> ok
[19:21] <mpt> evand, what happens/will happen if there are multiple eligible disks?
[19:21] <evand> it will show the one that is selected
[19:21] <evand> I thought about showing all of them always, but we don't really have the screen real estate for that, even with only two disks
[19:25] <mpt> showing a chart for each of the disks would help in choosing which one to use
[19:25] <mpt> and then hide the unchosen ones when deciding how to partition the chosen one
[19:25] <mpt> not sure exactly how that would look, though
[19:26] <evand> separate pages?  That is, first choose the disk graphically on one page, then operate it on the next?  I'm iffy on that though.
[19:28] <mpt> maybe not, maybe not
[19:28] <mpt> maybe the selected one would just float up to the top of the page, as the others fade out
[19:29] <evand> how would you change your disk selection in that case?
[19:29] <mpt> (with a "Choose a Different Disk..." button to bring them back)
[19:29] <evand> ah
[19:29] <mpt> progressive disclosure
[19:31] <evand> not sure how to make that visually smooth, but it sounds like a good thing for me to investigate.
[19:36] <mpt> I assume I don't need to tell you not to use a progress bar for the password strength indicator. :-)
[19:37] <evand> indeed :)
[19:37] <mpt> "Future work" added for partitioning
[19:38] <evand> thanks a bunch
[19:39] <mpt> Are you going to rename "Guided - use entire disk" for Intrepid?
[19:39] <mpt> (or have you done that already?)
[19:39] <evand> I will endeavor to at least get rid of "Guided -"
[19:41] <mpt> How difficult would this be:
[19:41] <mpt> (*) Use the entire disk
[19:42] <mpt>     This will delete and replace Windows XP.
[19:42] <mpt> (where that caption appears depending on whether and what OS is on the disk already)
[19:43] <evand> quite feasible, actually.  os-prober tells us the names of the operating systems on each partition, so it would just be a matter of matching the disk to the partitions in that list.
[19:43] <evand> I think that's definitely possible for 8.04
[19:43] <mpt> 8.04.2? Or 8.10?
[19:46] <evand> err sorry
[19:46] <evand> 8.10
[19:46] <mpt> ok
[19:58] <mpt> added "Partitioning options" section
[19:58] <mpt> And now I'll leave you alone, unless there's anything else I can help you with :-)
[20:00] <evand> ah, you beat me to it.  Thanks again for the help with this, do let me know if you spot any other usability mistakes.
[20:04] <mpt> you're very welcome
[20:06] <mpt> evand, one thing that's been needling me for a while is that we have your nifty migration stuff during the installation
[20:06] <mpt> and that makes life easier when doing a clean install on the same machine
[20:06] <mpt> But over time, it's going to become much more common to do a clean install on a new machine
[20:07] <mpt> and want to transfer over all the settings from your old machine
[20:07] <mpt> (You might not even have that old machine handy at the time you're doing the installation on the new one.)
[20:09] <mpt> So eventually I think it might make sense to split out the migration stuff into a separate utility.
[20:10] <mpt> Even if the installer offers to launch it before you continue with the installation.
[20:11] <mpt> That way you could, for example, use it from a live CD session to store all your documents and settings from Windows on a DVD-R or an external HD
[20:12] <mpt> and then after installation, migrate them all into your Ubuntu setup.
[20:14] <evand> it would make developing it easier, as I could rewrite (gah) it in Python.
[20:14] <evand> I'll give that one some thought
[20:14] <evand> noted
[20:21] <mpt> ok, ttfn
[20:25] <evand> cheers