[00:41] <pgquiles> Riddell: ping
[00:44] <Riddell> hi pgquiles
[00:46] <pgquiles> Riddell: hi. Is it already too late to sync witty ( http://packages.debian.org/unstable/witty ) with Debian? (an updated version just got in)
[00:47] <Riddell> nope
[00:48] <Riddell> ah, it's the Wt stuff
[00:48] <pgquiles> yes
[00:48] <Riddell> pgquiles: have you checked it compiles and runs on ubuntu?
[00:48] <pgquiles> Riddell: yes. In fact, it's always available for Ubuntu from my PPA before being available for Debian :-)
[00:49] <Riddell> pgquiles: what's your launchpad username?
[00:49] <pgquiles> Riddell: pgquiles :-)
[00:49] <pgquiles> Riddell: http://launchpad.net/~pgquiles/+archive
[00:50]  * Riddell guesses pgquiles
[00:52] <Riddell> pgquiles: synced
[00:52] <pgquiles> Riddell: thanks!
[00:55] <Riddell> welcome back splitters :)
[00:55] <Riddell> pgquiles: synced incase you missed that
[00:57] <pgquiles> Riddell: I got it, thanks. IRC splits are funny to watch :-)
[02:09] <Riddell> who's still awake?
[02:09] <Riddell> testers needed for http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/install-package_0.1_all.deb
[02:17] <echidnaman> wow
[02:17]  * echidnaman sees he was pinging out all the time he was away
[02:17] <Riddell> JontheEchidna!
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> it crashes?
[02:17] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: fancy testing http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/install-package_0.1_all.deb ?
[02:18]  * JontheEchidna didn't notice that jockey crashed when he tested
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> but ya I can test that too
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: we might want to steal the launch-kdesudo code from gdebi for software-properties and install-package
[02:21] <Riddell> well, it's a command line only app
[02:22] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: well it currently says to launch with kdesudo if you don't use sudo or kdesudo :P
[02:22] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: right, so jockey or whatever should use kdesudo
[02:23] <JontheEchidna> yeah I've been meaning to give jockey and software-properties gdebi's code...
[02:23] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: code for what?
[02:23] <JontheEchidna> for re-launching with kdesudo if not run with sudo in the first place
[02:24] <Riddell> right
[02:24] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: anyway, how's install-package working for you?
[02:24] <JontheEchidna> It's downloading file 0 of 1
[02:24] <JontheEchidna> (amarok-kde4)
[02:25] <Riddell> good package choice :)
[02:25] <JontheEchidna> and the details list is empty
[02:25] <Riddell> it only shows stuff during install
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> oh, any idea how to make it stop saying my computer needs a reboot? :P
[02:26] <Riddell> reboot?
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> earlier when I was testing update-manager
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> you gave me a command to test the need-reboot functionality
[02:27] <Riddell> rm /var/run/reboot-required
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> oh, duh
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> amarok-kde4 successfully installed
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> everything looked great aside from the "downloading package 0 out of 1" bug
[02:30] <Riddell> hmm, that comes from python-apt
[02:30] <Riddell> so not my fault, uploading :)
[02:30] <JontheEchidna> ;-)
[02:31] <JontheEchidna> so should that be a drop-in replacement for adept-batch?
[02:31] <Riddell> not quite, the command syntax is a bit different
[02:31] <Riddell> ports of jockey and language-selector welcome
[02:31]  * JontheEchidna needs to investigate the jockey crash
[02:32] <JontheEchidna> So is the week before feature freeze always like this? :P
[02:34] <JontheEchidna> dear jesus...
[02:34] <JontheEchidna> oookay... jockey-backed is ****-ed up
[02:34]  * JontheEchidna didn't touch it
[02:35] <JontheEchidna> seems to be throwing a hissy fit with dbus
[02:35]  * Riddell still needs to implement dist upgrade wizard into adept
[02:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: did you get anything like this when testing jockey? http://paste.ubuntu.com/39814/
[02:39] <Riddell> nope
[02:39] <Riddell> looks like a whole new crash
[02:40]  * JontheEchidna purges his jockey install and reinstalls the most recent official release
[02:41] <JontheEchidna> crap, happens with jockey from the repos
[02:41] <JontheEchidna> meaning it's a problem with my setup :(
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> this sucks
[02:48] <seele> whoa.. Riddell is still up?
[02:49] <Riddell> nobody to tell me to go to bed tonight :)
[02:49] <seele> hehe
[02:50] <seele> who wants to sleep alone when they can spend time with their IRC friends!
[02:50] <Riddell> exactly
[02:52] <seele> i'm finding some interesting stuff in the data you gave me
[02:53] <seele> i havent scrubbed the data for outliers yet or anything, but i did run some basic numbers on x and y resolutions
[02:53] <seele> 54% of the respondents reported runnign 1024 as their X res
[02:53] <seele> oh wait wait, wrong number
[02:54] <seele> 54% are running between 1024-1280
[02:54] <seele> BUT
[02:54] <seele> 60% are running y res between 768 and 1024
[02:54] <seele> 54% are running at 768
[02:55] <seele> so it's possible the values you pulled for laptop/desktop are valid afterall.. even though they seemed a bit high for laptop when you pasted the preview data
[02:55] <Riddell> 1024x768 is pretty well the norm for low to medium end computers
[02:55] <seele> right.. but there is a lot of 1280x768 going on too
[02:56] <seele> which is more common in laptops than monitors
[02:56] <seele> dell sells widescreen monitors, but i think most of them are larger than 1280x1024
[02:57] <seele> the interesting part (for me at least) is that this tells use we have very limited vertical real estate to work with
[02:57] <seele> screens are getting wider, not taller
[02:58] <Riddell> widescreen gets sales, resultion less so
[02:59] <seele> it looked like there were probably a few tablets submitted too because the resolutions reported were x < y
[03:00]  * claydoh is doing the kde4 fanboi thing on kubuntuforums
[03:00] <claydoh> is the msttcorefonts *not* part of kubuntu-restricted-extras?
[03:00] <Riddell> claydoh: doesn't seem to be
[03:00] <Hobbsee> claydoh: it's not so far.
[03:00] <claydoh> was there a reason maybe?
[03:01] <Hobbsee> hm, i didn't thikn it was in any of them.  obviously not
[03:01] <claydoh> I saw a discussion in the ml archives
[03:02] <claydoh> u-r-s does depend on msttcorefonts
[03:02] <claydoh> afaik
[03:02] <Riddell> patches welcome then :)
[03:03] <Riddell> although liberty fonts might mean there's no need any more
[03:03] <Hobbsee> fixed.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> there was already a patch
[03:03] <claydoh> heh someone already has
[03:03] <claydoh> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-extras/+bug/231094
[03:04]  * Hobbsee doesn't see why ttf-liberation does not suffice, though.
[03:06] <Hobbsee> claydoh: the general reason as to why it wasn't (although i'm not sure how they got in for the other bits) was because i didn't see the point of having a package that effectively depends on everything in multiverse, with it's varying degrees of usefulness.
[03:06] <Hobbsee> and, y'know, fonts aren't generally extra functionality, per se.
[03:08] <JontheEchidna> holy crap, jockey works now
[03:08]  * JontheEchidna has no clue what he did wrong
[03:08] <claydoh> Hobbsee: I do agree with that
[03:08]  * Riddell snoozes
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: so from my branch jockey crashes?
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> it doesn't here
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~echidnaman/jockey/jockey-pykde4 , to be sure ;)
[03:13] <seele> 'night Riddell
[03:14] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: how do you run it?
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: jonathan@jonathan-desktop:~/Documents/python/jockey-kde4/jockey-pykde4/kde$ sudo python jockey-kde
[03:16] <Riddell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/39816/
[03:17]  * Riddell snoozes
[03:17] <JontheEchidna> that rings a bell, actually
[03:17]  * JontheEchidna remembers something similar
[03:18] <JontheEchidna> but I thought I fixed that in bzr
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I did fix it in bzr, but that was after I made debs
[03:19]  * JontheEchidna remembers he screwed up the .ui file something awful
[03:27] <Hobbsee> claydoh: i see why it would suck to be the head of artwork, after doing u-r-e for a while...
[03:37] <vorian> JontheEchidna: kio-bookmarks uploaded
[03:37] <vorian> thanks again for your contributions :)
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> vorian: cooliosis
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> Did you try it? It's quite neat
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> I found it because commit-digest did a mini-article about it
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> oh lol, I forgot to push up my last to jockey commits to bzr
[03:52] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: When you wake up, update jockey and try it again. ;-)
[04:25]  * JontheEchidna goes to bed
[04:25] <Jucato> night JontheEchidna
[04:29] <vorian> nn
[09:27] <Czessi-m> morning
[09:28] <Czessi-m> Riddell: we found the kubuntu poll-up post in the kde booth box :-)
[15:29] <devfil> Riddell: there?
[15:49] <Riddell> hi devfil
[15:50] <devfil> Riddell: in kdebindings there are two files not installed usr/lib/kde3/libjsconsoleplugin.{la,so}, where should I put them? libkde3-java package?
[15:50] <Riddell> devfil: leave them out
[15:50] <Riddell> we took that out ages ago because it was broken
[15:51] <devfil> Riddell: ok, just to know ;)
[17:16] <taupter> Riddell: ping
[17:34] <Riddell> hi taupter
[17:35] <taupter> Riddell: Hi. :)
[17:35] <taupter> Riddell: Did you see thiago's rant?
[17:35] <Riddell> nope
[17:36] <Riddell> about nvidia?
[17:36] <taupter> Riddell: About the glib-in-Qt event stack making kwin spend 20% of processor time while idle?
[17:36] <Riddell> nope
[17:37] <taupter> Riddell: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/08/22/rant-desktop-effects-never-more/
[17:38] <taupter> Riddell: I believe it's the same rant about nvidia. My machines suffer the same problem,
[17:39] <Riddell> and does it help to run kwin with QT_NO_GLIB=1?
[17:39] <taupter> Riddell: and I'm not aware of any Qt program using Glib's event stack anyway,
[17:39] <taupter> Riddell: Yes, QT_NO_GLIB=1 helps greatly.
[17:41] <taupter> Riddell: I'd like to suggest disabling glib support in Kubuntu's Qt packages, or at least disabling it with QT_NO_GLIB=1.
[17:41] <Riddell> taupter: does QT_NO_GLIB=1 for kwin only help?
[17:42] <taupter> Riddell: I'm not sure.
[17:42] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: jockey seems to work now
[17:42] <Riddell> taupter: if it's only a problem for kwin then we can easily enough turn it off for that
[17:44] <taupter> Riddell: I restarted kwin from a konsole here after export QT_NO_GLIB=1
[17:45] <Riddell> taupter: and your problem goes away?
[17:46] <taupter> Riddell: It seems quieter, but plasma and kwin still throw processor spikes regularly. :)
[17:47] <Riddell> would be easy enough to turn off, I'll talk to thiago first though and see what he recommends
[17:48] <taupter> Riddell: Just for the record, here I'm using an Nvidia 7500LE with 1920x1440, and when I disable glib it flies.
[17:49] <taupter> Riddell: Sorry. Nvidia 5700le
[18:26] <devfil> Riddell: dh_shlibdeps -pkommander  -l :debian/kommander/usr/lib
[18:26] <devfil> dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 11
[18:26] <devfil> make: *** [binary-predeb-IMPL/kommander] Error 1
[18:27] <Riddell> wibble
[18:28] <devfil> Riddell: do you know why I get this error?
[18:29] <Riddell> never seen it before
[18:32] <nixternal> howdy all
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: cool
[18:37] <taupter> Riddell: ping
[18:37] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: Once I get it working with the new package-installer it should be good to go
[18:38] <Riddell> hi taupter
[18:38] <taupter> Riddell: Heh. :) Disabling the Glib thing just to kwin does the trick, I confirm here, and
[18:39] <taupter> Riddell: thiago sent me a patch: http://pastebin.ca/1182538
[18:40] <taupter> Riddell: It will disable Glib just to kwin, but he doesn't want to commit it to kde's repos,
[18:40] <nixternal> hrmm, nobody can say hi....jeesh, see if I ever say hi again!
[18:40] <taupter> Riddell: as if he does so nobody will ever try to fix Glib in Qt. :D
[18:41] <taupter> Riddell: And he's right. :D. afaict the patch can be appliet to both 4.1 branch and trunk.
[18:42] <Riddell> taupter: great
[18:42] <Riddell> hi nixternal!
[18:42] <nixternal> hi Riddell :)
[18:42] <nixternal> now I feel some love again
[18:43] <taupter> Riddell: Can I bug you again? :) kmldonkey-kde4 doesn't install, as it depends on libplasma1 but only libplasma2 is installed.
[18:44] <taupter> Riddell: I made a .deb for my own comsumption, and maybe I could help to package some bits of kde4 for kubuntu.
[18:45] <yuriy> ok I've really gotta get designer running to get working on userconfig..
[18:49] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: so it's segfaulting trying to load pykde plugins?
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> oh hey, I don't have python-kde4-dev installed
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> maybe that's why it works
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> still works
[18:53]  * yuriy checks
[18:54] <yuriy> I don't have python-kde4-dev either
[18:54] <JontheEchidna> It worked before and after installing that for me
[18:54] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: where did you get that that's what it was segfaulting on?
[18:54] <JontheEchidna> running it in konsole
[18:55] <JontheEchidna> oh
[18:55] <JontheEchidna> actually I just deleted stuff from /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/designer until it worked
[18:55] <yuriy> this is what I get: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39957/
[18:55] <yuriy> yeah you told me that, but it didn't work for me
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> :(
[18:56] <yuriy> and this is last thing from valgrind: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39702/
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> would you happen to have the bespin qt4 widget theme installed?
[18:57] <yuriy> no
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> cuz that causes designer to segfault too
[18:58] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: probably should report that if you know specific things
[18:59] <JontheEchidna> bespin is unmaintained
[18:59] <JontheEchidna> it was the original oxygen theme iirc
[18:59] <yuriy> but designer shouldn't segfault on random things
[19:00] <JontheEchidna> ok so taking a random stab here, maybe pyqt3 is conflicting with pyqt4?
[19:02] <yuriy> removed python-qt3 and python-kde3, no luck
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> python-kde3-dev would probably be the offender if pyqt3 was conflicting
[19:03] <yuriy> nope :(
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> damn, this sucks
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> any way I could create the ui file for you?
[19:04] <yuriy> I think I'll need several
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> using userconfig from kde-guidance as a reference?
[19:05] <yuriy> yeah
[19:05] <yuriy> I guess that's doable
[19:05] <yuriy> and bzr branch for the ported one is available
[19:06] <JontheEchidna> what's your LP id?
[19:07] <yuriy> yuriy-kozlov
[19:08] <JontheEchidna> so how have you been doing work without ui files?
[19:08] <yuriy> the original didn't use them
[19:09] <yuriy> I actually prefer to write out GUIs
[19:09] <yuriy> but I don't want to debug what's there, and I figured I'd be nice to the next person who touches it
[19:12] <yuriy> all I've done so far is get it to run and all the dialogs to show up
[19:15]  * smarter <3 amarok2
[19:15] <yuriy> broken for me last I checked
[19:16] <smarter> yuriy: I had to remove my ~/.kde/share/apps/amarok and ~/.kde/share/config/amarok* to make it work
[19:16] <smarter> the only thing I miss is a working lyric applet
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: so you want to change the current GUI into .ui files?
[19:19] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: rather than fix it, yeah
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> okie
[19:19] <yuriy> need:
[19:19] <yuriy> 1. details grid for user
[19:20] <yuriy> 2. details page for modify user
[19:20] <nixternal> apachelogger: you aren't telling people to replace KHC with a Wiki are you? or you aren't behind that movement?
[19:20] <yuriy> 3. password page for modify user
[19:21] <yuriy> 4. page for modify/new group
[19:21] <yuriy> I think that's it
[20:23] <Riddell> taupter: do fix up the package, that would be great
[20:23] <Riddell> it can probably drop hte -kde4 name
[20:52] <Tonio_> hi there
[20:52] <Tonio_> is knetworkmanager still working for you ?
[20:52] <Tonio_> I can seem to connect to any wireless network.... I can configure a connection, but nothing happens when I'm trying to connect...
[20:52] <Tonio_> works with wired connections btw
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/maindialogui.png
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/maindialogui2.png
[20:58] <yuriy> Tonio_: wasn't working for me last I tried.. installed gnome-network-manager and forgot about it
[20:58] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: thanks!! I'll look at it later, working on my roof
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> have fun
[21:11] <Tonio_> yuriy: oki
[21:18] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: not quite what I was asking for, but cool!
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> would you like to use it?
[21:24] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: at least -- can you make the top level a widget and not a dialog, so it can be embedded in a kcm easily?
[21:24] <yuriy> other than that, great, I'll use it
[21:24] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[21:24] <JontheEchidna> I was having trouble making it a dialog anyway
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> I still need to make .ui files for the modify, new, and delete dialogs
[21:29] <seele> JontheEchidna: right align your labels!
[21:29] <seele> JontheEchidna: and is that going to be a kcm module as well?
[21:30] <JontheEchidna> seele: That's the dream
[21:30] <seele> oh, i missed yuriy's comment, hehe
[21:30]  * JontheEchidna just threw all the things in the details box in a grid layout
[21:30] <JontheEchidna> after I took the screenshot
[21:32]  * JontheEchidna needs web hosting space where he can throw up junk
[21:34] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: you can push the .ui files to the bzr branch
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: isn't the branch owned by you?
[21:35] <Riddell> yuriy: you can embed it in a kcm?
[21:35] <yuriy> haven't tried yet, actually
[21:36] <yuriy> but I mean, how guidance utils pick a base class based on if it's run standalone
[21:36] <yuriy> so an ui based on a dialog or main window wouldn't work
[21:37] <yuriy> Riddell: do you know if libpythonize works for kde4?
[21:37] <Riddell> it doesn't
[21:38]  * yuriy -> back to the roof
[21:38] <yuriy> oh :-\
[21:39] <Riddell> it's on sime's todo I think but he's a busy chap
[21:42] <JontheEchidna> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/mainwindowui3.png
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> ^That's with all the layouting, etc
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> and no dialog buttons
[21:43]  * JontheEchidna copied the tabwidget onto a pure qwidget
[22:31] <apachelogger> nixternal: I am telling people to replace most docbooks with a wiki and make KHC arrive in 2008 by making it access online content
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> QWebview ftw
[22:32] <apachelogger> KHTML ftw
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> Gecko ftw
[22:32] <apachelogger> or for that matter
[22:32] <apachelogger> KParts ftw!
[22:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ok, now that was seriously out of place
[22:32] <apachelogger> that is like IE ftw
[22:32] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: awesome!
[22:33] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: does it let you push to my branch?
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: haven't tried
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> but the LP page says only you can
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~yuriy-kozlov/guidance/userconfig-kde4
[22:33] <apachelogger> yuriy: he can push to his and you can merge
[22:33] <apachelogger> or you move the branch to kde-members
[22:35] <yuriy> moved to kubuntu-members
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> cool beans
[22:35] <yuriy> apachelogger: now now, Gecko is still FOSS
[22:35] <apachelogger> that doesn't mean it's good software though
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> has less rendering errors than KHTML too
[22:35] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: can you add focus buddies?
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: focus buddies?
[22:36] <yuriy> so when you click on a label, it focuses its corresponding line edit
[22:36]  * apachelogger is wondering what to work on
[22:36] <yuriy> iirc this is denoted by a blue arrow in designer
[22:36]  * JontheEchidna didn't know you could do that
[22:36] <apachelogger> hm
[22:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you should get yourself a Qt book
[22:37] <apachelogger> focus buddies is one of the essential features ;-)
[22:37] <JontheEchidna> that was easy
[22:38] <JontheEchidna> ok, so I made a ui/ folder
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> which has all of 1 ui file in it right now :P
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> anyway, just pushed it up
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> you can edit the widget names with kate or whatever
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> I guess
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> Ok, for the delete user dialog we should just hard code in a KMessageBox
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> no need to make a ui file for that
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> Hmm, well actually I have no clue how you'd get checkboxes in there
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> so maybe not
[22:52] <yuriy> i'll code it if need be
[22:52] <yuriy> i had a list of stuff earliery^
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: so do the modify and new dialogs use the same dialog and just populate it differently?
[23:33] <apachelogger> now I have more karma from bzr commits than bug triage
[23:33] <apachelogger> that algo is completely pointless
[23:33] <apachelogger> the most time consuming work creates the least karma
[23:33] <apachelogger> :S
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> just go and close a couple hundred bugs that are set to expire 10 years ago
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> Is it wrong if I laugh inside when I see window management bugs in compiz at launchpad?
[23:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it just seems wrong that closing expired bugs gives karma at all, how does that move anything forward? ... and the compiz thing is just normal
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> btw, this page is quite handy: http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/since-yesterday/
[23:52] <apachelogger> yeah, it shows how broken gnome is compared to KDE :P
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> :P
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> that's why I've been laughing at compiz so much lately
[23:56] <tyfon> the desktop effects in kde4 is working pretty nice here.. but i sort of miss an exposé effect :)
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> throw the mouse to the top left corner
[23:57] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: yes
[23:57] <yuriy> they do use the same dialog
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> thought so
[23:58] <tyfon> hmm
[23:59] <yuriy> apachelogger: I think it shows more the popularity of Ubuntu compared to Kubuntu, but we can keep thinking that :P
[23:59] <tyfon> i didnt see it in the settings list so i asumed it was not there ;)
[23:59] <tyfon> thats nice
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> tyfon: it's called something else
[23:59] <tyfon> yeah it works hehe
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> I think crtl + F10 also does it