[00:00] <hggdh> bcurtis, thank you for your help. You can follow the link on the chat topic for more information on what to do/how to triage
[00:00] <hggdh> bcurtis, this is a good start: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[00:01] <bcurtis> hggdh, thanks I have skimmed them, and i think for me it's just a matter of hands on and hope i don't screw things up too bad
[00:01] <bdrung> bcurtis: and if you are unsure, what to do: ask
[00:03] <emgent> hello
[00:03] <hggdh> emgent, hello
[00:03] <hggdh> bcurtis, this is correct: when in doubt, ask. We will answer
[00:05] <bcurtis> ok, so for bug 260754, appears to be a wishlist but doesn't have any package associated and seems kind of vague.  just for experience.. whats the best way to handle it?
[00:06] <hggdh> heh
[00:07] <hggdh> this is actually a packaging request, but without the correct groups subscribed
[00:07] <hggdh> a suggestion, right now: do not touch it. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
[00:08] <bcurtis> so in your shoes, you wouldn't touch it?
[00:08] <bdrung> bcurtis: a good help are the standard responses:  without the correct groups sub
[00:08] <hggdh> specifically, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Special%20types%20of%20bugs. I am still trying to find and document exactly what is expected to be done with any of the special bugs
[00:09] <hggdh> bcurtis, indeed, I would not touch it. Not until I was to be completely clear on how to proceed
[00:10] <hggdh> s/was/were
[00:11] <bcurtis> ok
[00:11] <hggdh> bcurtis, another good approach to learning is to fix oneself on a few packages (those you more easily identify yourself with), and gain experience there
[00:12] <bcurtis> ok
[00:12] <bdrung> bcurtis: and going to bug jams
[00:12] <bcurtis> bdrung: which are?
[00:12] <bdrung> bcurtis: where do you live?
[00:13] <bcurtis> bdrung: outside of Washington DC USA
[00:13] <hggdh> yes, a bug jam is usually a good place to learn: each of them usually have a good triager/maintainer local, answering questions and explaining procedures
[00:15] <bdrung> bcurtis: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam . this was the global and recent
[00:21] <bcurtis> thank you all for your help
[00:21] <bdrung> i have edited bug #260754: modified title, added needs-packaging tag, checked if it is already in ubuntu or debian and then confirmed this bug. everyting beyond is something for motu
[00:27] <bcurtis> so if it isn't in either.. what do you then do?
[00:29] <bdrung> bcurtis: someone have to package it. if you are interested in packaging have a look at: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
[00:29] <bdrung> there are more resources about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/DocumentationResources
[00:30] <bcurtis> ok.. then if you find it.. its marked as invalid and a reason would be "already in "debian unstable" ...?
[00:30] <bdrung> yes
[00:30] <bcurtis> ok
[00:30] <bdrung> if it isn't in either you confirm the bug
[00:31] <bcurtis> and mark a "needs packaging"
[00:32] <bdrung> whit hyphen
[00:32] <bdrung> change the title to look like "[needs-packaging] program-name"
[00:38] <bcurtis> bdrung, hggdh, Thanks!
[00:38] <bdrung> np
[00:39] <bdrung> helping people to get involved is good
[00:44] <bdrung> bcurtis: do you heard about 5-a-day?
[00:44] <bcurtis> i think so.. take care of 5 bugs a day if you can
[00:50] <bdrung> bcurtis: and interested?
[00:51] <bcurtis> yeah, i try to get 5 bugs a day
[00:52] <bdrung> bcurtis: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day/Reporting
[00:52] <bdrung> then you can see your result in http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/
[02:13] <marnanel> Should I be able to write:   bzr branch bzr+ssh://bzr-playground.gnome.org/fast-user-switch-applet/trunk/ bzr+ssh://bzr-playground.gnome.org/~tthurman/fast-user-switch-applet/awn/  ?  It says that "...f-u-s-a/trunk/" is not a branch.
[02:14] <marnanel> oops
[02:14] <marnanel> wrong channel entirely
[02:14]  * marnanel apologises.
[02:15] <james_w> hi marnanel, here is fine too
[02:16] <james_w> ah, no, sorry, it is the wrong channel, I assumed this was #bzr
[02:17]  * marnanel grins
[05:50] <aliciapg> so yeah...i need help with my soundcard
[05:57] <aliciapg> and i'm getting no help
[05:57] <aliciapg> yeah
[11:07] <cacf3b2074> hi
[11:08] <aron_> hi
[11:08] <cacf3b2074> process nm-applet has a bug, how to report it
[11:08] <cacf3b2074> same question for x-session-manager,  btw and how to find their description
[11:09] <afflux> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+filebug
[11:09] <afflux> cacf3b2074: see link above for nm-applet
[11:09] <cacf3b2074> afflux: but which application
[11:09] <cacf3b2074> oh right
[11:09] <cacf3b2074> how do you easly find this information?  synaptic was not helpfull
[11:09] <afflux> cacf3b2074: what do you mean by "how to find their description"?
[11:10] <cacf3b2074> I want to find package name knowing the name of the process, sometimes its diffrent
[11:10] <afflux> cacf3b2074: "dpkg -S nm-applet", or, to be more specific: dpkg -S /usr/bin/nm-applet
[11:10] <aron_> first,check in launchpad if your bug has already commited,if not,commit
[11:11] <cacf3b2074> ok
[11:11] <afflux> cacf3b2074: note that launchpad records the bugs for source packages (which means, the names can differ from the actual packages you have installed)
[11:11] <aron_> yes
[11:11] <afflux> cacf3b2074: to find the source package for a binary package, you can use "apt-cache madison binary-package-name"
[11:12] <cacf3b2074> should flaws in philosophy that lead to sociall based attacks be reported as security issues, or just technical ones (like buffer overflow etc)
[11:13] <cacf3b2074> apt-cache madison x-session-manager    shows nothing
[11:16] <afflux> cacf3b2074: x-session-manager is a link to a different program. You can check to what it points to by writing: readlink -f /usr/bin/x-session-manager
[11:24] <cacf3b2074> thanks, that worked afflux
[11:28] <cacf3b2074> bad planning of how gnome session works can force user to disclose his password. security vulnerability or not?
[11:29] <cacf3b2074> *disclose password to 3rd party
[11:30] <afflux> cacf3b2074: can you explain it a bit more please?
[11:35] <cacf3b2074> afflux: 1. leave office with locked desktop
[11:35] <cacf3b2074> 2. thunderstorm
[11:35] <cacf3b2074> 3. call office maintaince or co-worker to turn off coptuer.... whooops.
[11:36] <cacf3b2074> eith you have to give them own password,  or ask them to force turn off (4 second on power key) but then FS corruption
[11:37] <afflux> cacf3b2074: to avoid FS corruption, use SysRQ keys (see google/wikipedia). Either you want security and noone can access the computer without a passwort, or you don't, and someone can do whatever he wants.
[11:37] <cacf3b2074> you can work around this by creating speciall user just for this purpose and giving password to that... but imho it would be better to add a  Turn-Off  option to the locked login screen instead
[11:38] <cacf3b2074> yes, I want noone to *access* my dekstop,  but I want to allow to turn off the computer by anyone with phisical access.   If anyone has phisical access then he always CAN turn off the compuer (plug out power) - so why not allow them to turn off the computer gracefully
[11:38] <cacf3b2074> *spelling
[11:39] <afflux> cacf3b2074: I'm not sure a bug is the right place to discuss this. Consider bringing this up at brainstorm.ubuntu.com or at the mailinglists
[11:42] <cacf3b2074> brainstorm is the place when people write down ideas, then vote for them, and finally - do nothing about them right?"
[11:42] <cacf3b2074> which ML ?
[11:51] <afflux> cacf3b2074: I'd guess ubuntu-devel-discuss, but I'm not sure there.
[12:00] <cacf3b2074> or perhaps it should be a blueprint?
[12:01] <cacf3b2074> I think overall that it ubuntu power-off desktop sucks,  and it would be fixed by  1) making password locks to have option to shutdown (esp. for physical access)       2) power key pressed several times will always shut down
[13:05] <Ampelbein> hi! could some member of bug-control please have a look at bug 260761 ? i think it could be set to triaged. Regarding importance I would say its high, since networking is a very core component of ubuntu/linux.
[13:08] <Ampelbein> Another one: Bug 259414 . I think this could also be set to triaged. regarding importance i'm undecided whether low or medium. i tend to medium. opinions?
[13:14] <lifeless> 1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c/win 18
[13:15] <Ampelbein> ?
[13:15] <bdrung> lifeless: ???
[13:15] <lifeless> confused terminal
[13:16] <bdrung> Ampelbein: bug #260761 should be marked as regression
[13:16] <Ampelbein> ok. will add the tag.
[13:16] <bdrung> because it works in hardy
[13:17] <Ampelbein> didn't think of that. thanks for the reminder.
[13:18] <bdrung> and high is right (-> A problem with an essential hardware component (disk controller, laptop built-in wireless, video card, keyboard, mouse) )
[13:21] <bdrung> Ampelbein: does the wlan card not work or is only the card wrong detected?
[13:21] <bdrung> if it is only wrong named, its not high but low
[13:22] <Ampelbein> its only wrong detected. the card is working according to dmesg.
[13:24] <Ampelbein> but there may be some "special" functions and parameters not working since it is detected wrong.
[13:24] <Ampelbein> don't know, i'm too little a developer to judge this.
[13:26] <bdrung> "special" functions may be using the card as accesspoint point
[13:26] <bdrung> but if he can use the card to get an internet connection there is no need to set the importance to high
[13:27] <Ampelbein> ok, understood. so "low" would be correct?
[13:27] <bdrung> i have set it to low, if he reports any issues due to its wrong detections we can adjust the importance
[13:27] <bdrung> yes
[13:28] <Ampelbein> and should i add to the description explicitly that its working, just wrong detected?
[13:28] <Ampelbein> (i think yes)
[13:29] <bdrung> Ampelbein: yes
[13:31] <Ampelbein> bdrung: ok, thank you for your help.
[13:31] <bdrung> you're welcome
[14:56] <Rocket2DMn> can somebody please check if we can close bug 64324
[14:59] <Rocket2DMn> same with bug 161803 please
[16:00] <afflux> I wonder if this sentence is correct: "wondering *is* this still an issue for you" - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Old%20untouched%20bugs
[18:25] <Rocket2DMn> Can somebody with wireless debugging experience see bug 190144 and request any more information that is needed
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> Rocket2DMn, just looking at bug 190144
[18:37] <Rocket2DMn> thanks chrisccoulson
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> you should probably initially ask the reporter to provide all the information as per the kernel teams bug policy (I see they've already added their dmesg output)
[18:38] <chrisccoulson> in addition, I'd get them to attach their kern.log and their syslog (which might contain some messages from networkmanager)
[18:38] <Rocket2DMn> yeah the thought had occurred to me, i was hoping somebody also knew of a specific driver package that it could be assigned to, but it doesnt seem like it
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> the kernel is probably the best place for now
[18:39] <Rocket2DMn> chrisccoulson, do you want to take the triage from where i left off?
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> Rocket2DMn, i'll leave it to you if you want ;)
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> i'll subscribe and have a look through their logs when they've provided the information
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> although i probably wouldn't be that much help!
[18:40] <Rocket2DMn> If you think you can folow through with it, then it's all yours.  I've been going through and trying to close out old bugs.  Most users never get back, then I handle those that do, but the workload is piling up
[18:40] <Rocket2DMn> I can still try and follow through though
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> i'll ask for the extra info on that bug report in a bit
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> just looking at bug 180743 as well actually
[18:41] <Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks, i'm subscribed so i'll follow the progress
[18:42] <Rocket2DMn> I get the feeling that latter bug will just get closed
[18:42] <chrisccoulson> i can confirm that bug actually. i had a look through the code for apport and update-notifier a few weeks ago and i can see what is going on, but i never got round to posting my findings
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> and i'm not sure whether the bug should be update-notifier or apport (or both)
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> well, which project code were you looking at exactly
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> sounds like probably the notifier
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> the problem is that when files change in /var/crash, update-notifier calls apport-checkreports. This indicates that there are new reports if any files modified time is newer than their access time
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> the problem then is with the logic in update-notifier, which repeatedly displays the notification for system crash reports only
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> for user crash reports, it calls apport-gtk which pops up the dialog when the report is done
[18:49] <maco> you know you're looking at old bugs when they've got 5-digit bug numbers
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> update-notifier needs to wait until apport is done before it displays the notfication. apport currently takes out an exclusive lock on /var/crash/.lock when it is working, but i don't think there is any way of getting update-notifier to use this as a way of determining if apport is still running
[19:41] <crimsun> 260664 is definitely a popular one.
[19:41] <maco> yeah, seriously
[19:42] <maco> it seems more like "raise your hand if -21 *didn't* clobber your wifi"
[19:43] <maco> is bug 77435 more likely an OOo bug or an OpenBox bug?
[19:43] <crimsun> that would be me - thanks for unsupported devices needing ndiswrapper.
[20:37] <pwnguin> maco: actually, i think my wifi works fine
[20:38] <maco> pwnguin: crimsun and i each marked a dupe of that bug in a 5 minute time span, that's why we're commenting on it
[20:38] <pwnguin> ah
[20:38] <maco> ours are working just fine...seeing as we're using the library's wifi right now
[20:39] <pwnguin> "we"?
[20:39] <maco> crimsun and i
[20:39] <maco> we're having our own little 2-person bug jam
[20:40] <pwnguin> heh
[20:40] <pwnguin> im at work, watching debconf videos ;)
[20:41] <maco> haha.  im going through new/undecided bugs that show up in a search for "Edgy" and asking if the problem still exists so i can close them.
[20:42] <maco> done about 50 of those today, i think.  we were doing this for a few hours last night in a cafe too.
[20:42] <maco> im counting last night's since it was after midnight :P
[20:43] <pwnguin> so when you do that, do you try to duplicate it on your own first?
[20:44] <maco> if its an app i have or hardware i have, but a lot of them are hardware bugs that i dont have the equipment to reproduce
[20:44] <maco> s/a lot/most/
[20:45] <pwnguin> it might be handy to search for hardware you do have ;)
[20:46] <maco> oh yeah...
[20:46] <pwnguin> it'd generate less churn I think, but some people seem to think that's a goal
[20:47] <maco> i should also file 4 bugs i can think of off the top of my head
[20:47] <maco> well if they're edgy bugs, they might as well be closed. and if they're still open from then and reproducible, might as well get some more info on them.
[20:47] <maco> just sitting there being ignored doesn't really do any good
[20:48] <pwnguin> well sure. I'm just trying to thing of ways to improve the many eyes thing
[20:50] <pwnguin> by looking for stuff you have the hardware for, you reduce the number of round trips needed, and can get to fixing it that much faster ;)
[20:52] <pwnguin> obviously if you run out of such bugs, other low effort / low lying fruit are suitable
[20:52] <maco> the few bugs ive seen for my hardware (unlike crimsun i buy hardware because it is compatible...he's disappointed his sound card works properly because now he can't fix it) in launchpad...they seem to be "wontfix"
[20:53] <maco> there's one that is fixed upstream, kind of, but it'd require too much new stuff to get into intrepid
[20:53] <maco> but i guess i should file some bugs on my hardware
[20:54] <crimsun> it actually doesn't work correctly.  All the fixes that are required are mundane, rote ones.
[20:54] <crimsun> it->conexant patch
[20:54] <maco> what doesn't work?
[20:54] <maco> oh your sound card
[20:54] <maco> yeah neither does mine, but you dont want to fix my audio bugs
[20:55] <maco> on either of the two laptops that have them
[20:55] <crimsun> no, I don't want to fix them /right now/.  You'll get to the point where you understand how and why you need to fix what.
[20:56] <pwnguin> is crimsun training a replacement?
[20:56] <maco> how and why whom what?  i want you to teach me how these drivers work so i can at least make an attempt at either fixing it or letting the magic blue smoke out of my speakers
[20:56] <maco> preferably the former
[20:56] <crimsun> maco: I can't force-feed an understanding of the audio stack in a short term.
[20:57] <maco> you havent taught me anything in like...a month
[20:57] <crimsun> maco: actually, you haven't been watching ;p
[20:57] <maco> you're on the other side of the table
[20:57] <crimsun> maco: and for two of those weeks, you were in .eu
[20:57] <crimsun> so ;p
[20:57] <maco> well yes, but...
[20:57] <maco> the teaching started on IRC and i had IRC there
[20:58] <crimsun> anyhoo, this is quickly outside the scope of this channel.
[20:58] <maco> yes
[20:58] <maco> pwnguin: i asked him at the hardy release party if he wanted an apprentice
[20:59] <pwnguin> which channel has "making audio work" as it's scope?
[20:59] <crimsun> you'd need to constrain "making audio work" a bit.
[21:00] <maco> pwnguin: you want crimsun's "utterly unofficial support" channel?
[21:00] <pwnguin> "unofficial"?
[21:00] <crimsun> (I don't head up ubuntu-audio any more, so anything I recommend can only be considered and not taken to be the line.)
[21:02] <maco> hey look there *is* a bug filed for my webcam, and there's a driver that's known to work for it.
[21:03] <pwnguin> see, it's already more rewarding :)
[21:03] <maco> it doesn't appear to need a new libusb like my other unsupported device.  can it be nominated for inclusion in intrepid, then?
[21:04] <pwnguin> well anything can be nominated
[21:04] <pwnguin> and exceptions can always be made
[21:05] <maco> alright well its bug 215604
[21:06] <pwnguin> daniel drake again
[21:06] <maco> yes, he's responsible for both drivers that would bring my laptop up to nearly perfect support
[21:06] <pwnguin> fprint?
[21:06] <maco> his upeksonly driver for libfprint is the other one
[21:06] <maco> it requires a *way* newer libusb though
[21:07] <pwnguin> does thinkfinger not work?
[21:07] <maco> no
[21:07] <maco> this is a upek touchstrip sensor-only reader
[21:07] <pwnguin> fun
[21:07] <maco> as opposed to the upek touchstrip that processes the image internally
[21:07] <maco> which is also different from the thinkfinger one
[21:08] <pwnguin> what
[21:08] <pwnguin> no
[21:08] <maco> there are at least 5 drivers in libfprint now
[21:08] <pwnguin> yea
[21:09] <pwnguin> i have Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0483:2016 SGS Thomson Microelectronics Fingerprint Reader
[21:09] <pwnguin> been working since feisty
[21:09] <pwnguin> via thinkfinger
[21:09] <pwnguin> but yes, there are newer and unsupported devices
[21:09] <maco> http://reactivated.net/fprint/wiki/Driver_ID_assignments
[21:10] <maco> the driver i need was committed in july and requires libusb 0.9 which crimsun says is wayyy too new for intrepid
[21:10] <maco> apparently there are 9 now
[21:11] <pwnguin> the touchstrip that processes internally is the thinkfinger one
[21:11] <pwnguin> afaik
[21:11] <maco> oh ok
[21:11] <maco> theres that upektc and upekts idk which is which
[21:13] <pwnguin> our sysadmin and I have had fingerprint readers in laptops for a while, so i stole the debian fingerforce teams' thinkfinger package for our use
[21:13] <maco> gotcha
[21:13] <pwnguin> i should probably test out fprint on intrepid...
[21:17] <pwnguin> maco: given that we're transitioning to .27 it seems, you might be able to get gl860 in intrepid too
[21:19] <pwnguin> maco: do you know how to triage kernel bugs?
[21:20] <maco> no
[21:20] <maco> not really
[21:20] <pwnguin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[21:20] <maco> i need to upgrade to intrepid soonish
[21:21] <pwnguin> yea
[21:21] <maco> i said yesterday that my relative lack of bugs is what's keeping me from being to anxious about upgrading, but if there's hope of the bugs i wasnt expecting a fix on being fixed...
[21:21] <pwnguin> have you considered dual booting?
[21:22] <pwnguin> intrepid doens't have to be an either or situation
[21:22] <maco> last time i did that, well...i like to share my /home partition, and then they fight and then lack of backwards compatibility makes the old version unable to understand my /home directory anyway, so i dont bother with dual booting stable/unstable anymore
[21:23] <pwnguin> i seem to get by okay
[21:23] <maco> i just havent really gotten around to upgrading. itd be easier if i had stable enough wifi to get an iso or to be sure i wouldnt drop in the middle of downloading the updates
[21:24] <pwnguin> the only bug ive found is that update-manager announces ubuntu+1 when running stable
[21:24] <maco> seeing as i'm in need of a pringle cantenna like xkcd has...
[21:37] <Ampelbein> Hi! Could some member of bug-control please check on bug 260941 ? I think it could be set to status triaged, low importance.
[21:41] <hggdh> Ampelbein, I set it to traiged/Low. Thank you (and, hopefully, you will be able to do same by yourself soon)
[21:41] <Ampelbein> ;-) Thanks.
[21:44] <dupondje> somebody any id if there are some probs with Intrepid atm ? cause when I'm logged in into gnome, I don't get a login sound, no icons, no panel :(
[21:44] <Ampelbein> dupondje: works for me. but you could check in #ubuntu+1
[21:45] <dupondje> its death there :p
[21:47] <dupondje> its kinda strange :s
[22:29] <hggdh> dupondje, you can check ~/.xsession-errors for messages
[22:29] <dupondje> ofc
[22:30] <dupondje> lotsa messages :)
[22:31] <hggdh> yay... now to filter what might be a real error from simple debug messages ;-)
[22:32] <dupondje> it cleans file after a gdm restart ?
[22:33] <dupondje> cause now I got it fixxed by changing the default session @ logon ...
[22:33] <dupondje> dunno what caused it :s
[22:48] <bdrung> how to gather information on kernel bug while shutdown?
[23:17] <hggdh> dupondje, .xsession-errors is recreated every login