[00:03] <emgent> hello
[00:06] <nhandler> Hi emgent
[00:15] <emgent> heya nhandler :)
[00:19] <emgent> kernel 2.6.27 is up
[00:19] <emgent> woow.
[00:21] <bdrung> good decision
[00:35] <emgent> bdrung: uploaded some moment ago in intrepid
[00:35] <bdrung> already read this
[00:58]  * sistpoty heads to bed... gn8 everyone
[01:07] <james_w> nxvl: great, thanks for your help
[02:45] <Hobbsee> james_w: either way, it's got to be wrong, as procps is in ubuntu-minimal anyway...
[02:46] <Hobbsee> so it shouldn't be making any difference
[02:46] <james_w> Hobbsee: oh, interesting
[02:47] <james_w> so that should be installed in the buildd chroot?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> i would have thought so - i thought everything in ubuntu-minimal (and possibly standard too) got installed in the chroot.
[02:47] <james_w> Priority: required
[02:48] <Hobbsee> yes
[02:48] <james_w> well, lmms is now built
[02:48] <james_w> it looks like it's not installed then
[02:49] <Hobbsee> strange.  might need to hit up a powerful buildd admin for that, then.
[02:49] <james_w> do the buildds have /proc mounted?
[02:49] <james_w> if not then the package may be blacklisted
[02:49] <Hobbsee> not sure
[03:19] <jdong> against my better judgement, upgrading macbook to Intrepid.
[03:19] <jdong> figured that's a good way to jumpstart back into Ubuntu mode.
[03:19] <crimsun> plenty of bugs to triage ;p
[03:20] <jdong> I figured :)
[03:20] <jdong> being annoyed by them on a daily matter is the only way to motivate me to divert from back-to-school packing though :D
[03:21] <jdong> so I've got OS X usability anoyances on the host side, Intrepid bugs on the other side....
[03:21] <jdong> all that's missing is a good bridge to jump off.
[04:00] <NCommander> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/24/008201
[04:00] <NCommander> I
[04:00] <NCommander> I O_O;
[04:00] <NCommander> I heard of abusing dpkg but ...
[05:02] <gnomefreak> anyone using dpkg-buildpackage in Intrepid?
[05:05] <persia> gnomefreak: I've been using the debuild wrapper, but yes.  Why?
[05:07] <gnomefreak> persia: dpkg-buildpackage is failing to sign .dsc .diff, i get asked for a  password to sign the tarball but never asks for .dsc ,diff
[05:07] <gnomefreak> it happens on intrepis system as well as Intrepid chroot, Hardys works fine last time i checkerd
[05:07] <persia> gnomefreak: Hrm?  You shouldn't be signing either the tarball or the .diff.  Only the .dsc and the .changes file.
[05:07] <persia> How are you calling dplg-buildpackage?
[05:09] <gnomefreak> let me try it it shouldnt take long to get the error
[05:11] <gnomefreak> persia: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524030
[05:12] <gnomefreak> oh yeah forgot the command i used
[05:13] <gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -kA5C42601 -i.bzr   is what i use
[05:14] <persia> gnomefreak: Your GPG agent isn't working (I don't use one when I build on intrepid).  You can use debsign to try to sign them again.
[05:14] <persia> Why do you use -k?  That should only be required when you are sponsoring someone else's work.
[05:14] <gnomefreak> persia: not working as in bug or my key
[05:14] <persia> gnomefreak: pastebin the last changelog entry?
[05:15] <gnomefreak> persia: that is used to sign .dsc
[05:15] <gnomefreak> ok
[05:16] <gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524042  persia
[05:16] <gnomefreak> i dont see why changelog would help
[05:18] <persia> Because 99% of the problems that people use -k to work around are related to issues with the changelog.
[05:18] <persia> In your case, I don't see it.
[05:18] <gnomefreak> i was thinking that pinentry is borked
[05:18] <persia> Yes, it is.
[05:18] <persia> As I said before, your GPG agent isn't working.
[05:20] <gnomefreak> yeah i tried removing it and purge it
[05:20] <persia> That might be the issue.  remove/purge doesn't clean up user-specific configuration.  Hunt for dotfiles
[05:20] <gnomefreak> persia: i did and it was in ~/.gunpg and i removed it
[05:21] <persia> And gpg is still looking for an agent?
[05:21] <gnomefreak> doesnt help at all
[05:21] <gnomefreak> yep
[05:22] <persia> Curiouser and curiouser.  Can you use gpg to sign files directly, rather than using the packaging tools?
[05:22] <gnomefreak> not real sure if it is but im assuming i is since i get that error
[05:23] <gnomefreak> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
[05:23] <gnomefreak> oops
[05:24] <persia> Yep.  That's the core issue.  I suspect either a dotfile, or a global gpg config thing.
[05:25] <gnomefreak> error_mozilla-devscripts error_mozilla-devscripts .asc error_mozilla-devscripts .sig
[05:26] <gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524056 after error it asked for passsword and by the looks of it it signed it http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524056
[05:26] <gnomefreak> oops i gave you link 2 times
[05:27] <gnomefreak> last thing i want to do is make another key
[05:28] <persia> Really, the problem is not with the key, it's with your gpg configuration.
[05:28] <persia> Try logging into a chroot, and signing there just to verify this.
[05:28] <gnomefreak> persia:  it fails in clean chroot
[05:29] <gnomefreak> clean == made yesterday
[05:29] <persia> gnomefreak: OK.  How about a hardy chroot?  You may have found a bug.
[05:29] <persia> (note that you're only testing gpg here, not the entire build process)
[05:30] <gnomefreak> persia: works in hardy last tested on friday but im using a differrent key in hardy iirc
[05:30]  * gnomefreak tests the build not gpg
[05:30] <gnomefreak> well gpg indirectly
[05:32] <gnomefreak> :~/.gnupg$ cat gpg-agent-info-Development | less
[05:32] <gnomefreak> only thing in it is GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/gpg-uCtLP5/S.gpg-agent:5947:1
[05:33] <persia> Try unsetting that, as I suspect it's not a valid pipe
[05:33] <gnomefreak> i removed it and still got error
[05:34] <gnomefreak> i guess its making that file on build
[05:34] <persia> Right.  Try a new user.
[05:34] <persia> (and yes, you can copy your keys to the new user's .gnupg safely, just remember to delete them afterwards
[05:35] <gnomefreak> new user would be same since they share the key
[05:35] <persia> Yes, but that lets you discover whether the problematic configuration is for your user or system wide.
[05:35] <persia> Again, the key doesn't have the problem, it's the GPG environment.
[05:40] <gnomefreak> i guess i have to logout and back in with new user
[05:40] <persia> Nah.  Just use `sudo -u $(newusername)
[05:41] <persia> Err.  `sudo -s -u $(newusername)`
[05:42] <gnomefreak> i gave user admin but i cant sem to ls saying number1@Development:~/.gnupg$ ls
[05:43] <gnomefreak> ls: cannot open directory .: Permission denied
[05:44] <persia> Ah, keys ar secret.  You need to copy the keys over as root.
[05:47] <gnomefreak> but i am useing same ~/.gnupg with both users arent i?
[05:47] <gnomefreak> i cant use any command at all i tried cd and gives permissions error
[05:51] <gnomefreak> even with sudo it fails to move keys
[05:53] <gnomefreak> do i need *agent or can i just use seahorse as an alterative
[05:53] <gnomefreak> seahorse or something else
[05:55] <persia> gnomefreak: You can use an alternate agent, or no agent.  Currently, it seems your profile is configured to use an agent, but that agent isn't working.
[06:00] <gnomefreak> persia: where is the profile for *-agent?
[06:01] <persia> gnomefreak: I'm not sure.  That's why I suggested trying with a different user.  It's either going to be in your user directory or in /etc somwhere
[06:01] <persia> Like I said before, I don't use an agent.
[06:02] <gnomefreak> i think i will try without one
[06:05] <gnomefreak> that failed after removing gnupg-agent
[06:05] <gnomefreak> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
[06:09] <gnomefreak> looks like no fir or file for it in /etc
[10:57] <Iulian> DktrKranz: ping
[11:12] <wgrant> soren: I see that you have quite a fan in the Ubuland blog comments.
[11:14] <DktrKranz> Iulian, pong
[11:16] <Iulian> DktrKranz: Hey! Salasaga has been uploaded to Sid. Would you like to have a look at bug 260813?
[11:18] <DktrKranz> sure
[11:18] <DktrKranz> I'll have a look at it after lunch. Is it on REVU too (so I can archive it)?
[11:20] <Iulian> DktrKranz: It's already archived, by you :)
[11:20] <Iulian> DktrKranz: Enjoy your lunch.
[11:31] <soren> wgrant: Yeah, he luuuuves me. :/
[11:35] <wgrant> soren: I hope you prevail.
[12:09] <Iulian> DktrKranz: Thank you.
[12:09] <DktrKranz> you're welcome ;)
[13:57] <ssaboum> hi everyone
[13:58] <ssaboum> sorry to bother you but i would like to know if there's any issue with Revu because i'm new to it and tried to upload a package
[13:58] <ssaboum> but i can't see anything
[13:58] <ssaboum> :'( ??
[14:04] <ssaboum_> hi, anyone here ?
[14:07] <ssaboum_> i would use some help, if there was any ??
[14:07] <ssaboum_> lol
[14:12] <laga> ssaboum_: have you logged in to revu already?
[14:14] <ssaboum_> thanks for awnsering
[14:14] <ssaboum_> lol
[14:14] <ssaboum_> yes i'm logged in
[14:15] <ssaboum_> i have my launchpad account
[14:15] <ssaboum_> and i did dput revu for my package source
[14:15] <laga> did you add your gpg key to launchpad?
[14:15] <ssaboum_> yes
[14:15] <ssaboum_> i'm perfectly logged in
[14:15] <laga> is your package signed?
[14:15] <ssaboum_> the problem is that even if dput tell me that the package is uploaded
[14:15] <ssaboum_> i can't see anything
[14:15] <ssaboum_> yes it is
[14:17] <ssaboum_> wait a second i think i get it, i'll try and get back to you
[14:17] <ssaboum_> but that may be a problem with the keys
[14:18] <ssaboum_> thank you anyway for answering me
[14:18] <ssaboum_> that was really nice
[14:19] <ssaboum_> how can i join tu revu uploader launchpad team ?
[14:19] <ssaboum_> tu = the
[14:22] <ssaboum_> ok i checked my gpg keys are ok
[14:23] <ssaboum_> and the package has been uploaded
[14:23] <ssaboum_> but i can't see it
[14:23] <laga> hum
[14:23] <laga> you'll have to wait for one of the revu guys to come around
[14:23] <laga> eg Ncommander
[14:23] <ssaboum_> ok then
[14:23] <ssaboum_> it's weird isn't it
[14:25] <ssaboum_> thank you anyway lage
[14:26] <ssaboum_> thank you anyway laga
[15:20] <ssaboum_> anyone from the REVU team ?
[15:35] <coppro> wow, where did my funky K menu go?
[15:35] <coppro> ah, there we go
[16:33] <persia> ssaboum_: Sorry for the delay.  Have you tried logging into REVU?
[16:33] <ssaboum_> i'm logged in thank you
[16:33] <ssaboum_> (hi btw :-) )
[16:33] <persia> ssaboum_: OK.  Which package did you upload?
[16:33] <ssaboum_> i uploaded a package names japanesevocabulary
[16:34] <ssaboum_> precisely i did
[16:34] <ssaboum_> dput revu japanesevocabulary_0.6-1_source.changes
[16:34] <ssaboum_> after packaging it (since this is my first i would not say "perfectly" ) lol
[16:35] <ssaboum_> and now dput tell me that it's on and that there's no update to do
[16:35] <persia> Interestingly, I can see the .changes file in the rejected folder, but can't see the rest of the package.
[16:35] <persia> Try deleting the source.upload file, and sending it again.
[16:35] <ssaboum_> why is it rejected ?
[16:35] <ssaboum_> (ok )
[16:36] <ssaboum_> it's doing it
[16:36] <ssaboum_> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
[16:36] <ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6-1.dsc: done.
[16:36] <ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6.orig.tar.gz: done.
[16:36] <ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6-1.diff.gz: done.
[16:36] <ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6-1_source.changes: done.
[16:36] <ssaboum_> Successfully uploaded packages.
[16:36] <persia> I don't actually know how to check the logs as to why it was rejected, but with the entire pacakge, we've a better chance of it being accepted.
[16:36] <persia> OK.  I can see it now.
[16:37] <ssaboum_> :-)
[16:37] <ssaboum_> brb afk
[16:38] <persia> What is your launchpad ID?
[16:42] <ssaboum_> ok back
[16:43] <ssaboum_> my launchpad id is ssaboum
[16:44] <ssaboum_> thx i can see it now
[16:44] <ssaboum_> but there's two
[16:44] <ssaboum_> must because i forced it once
[16:44] <ssaboum_> (+ be )
[16:44] <persia> Two uploads?
[16:44] <ssaboum_> yeah i see two packages now in revu
[16:45] <ssaboum_> but i think it's because i tried once
[16:45] <ssaboum_> dput -f
[16:45] <persia> Oh, right.  Yeah, that would be it.
[16:45] <ssaboum_> (because i didn't see the package )
[16:45] <ssaboum_> i can delete one ?
[16:45] <persia> It takes a while between the upload and publication: I think the cron job only runs every 10 minutes.
[16:46] <persia> I'll remove the obsolete .changes from rejected.
[16:46] <ssaboum_> honestly it's been since yesterday that i tried
[16:47] <ssaboum_> it must have been about 8 hours
[16:47] <ssaboum_> that i uploaded the first one
[16:47] <ssaboum_> (even if it's indicated 17 h 20 lol)
[16:48] <ssaboum_> thank you very much
[16:48] <emgent> evening
[16:48] <ssaboum_> evening :-)
[16:49] <ssaboum_> btw persia how can i get into the launchpad revu uploaders group
[16:50] <persia> ssaboum_: You just join.  That said, I don't think that group is required anymore.
[16:50] <persia> NCommander: ?
[16:50] <NCommander> REVU uploaders isn't needed anymore
[16:50] <ssaboum_> hello NCommander
[16:50] <persia> NCommander: But it's cool, and gives a badge.
[16:51] <ssaboum_> laga told me to wait for you
[16:51]  * NCommander removes the badge
[16:51] <ssaboum_> as we were trying to understand why my upload didn't work
[16:51] <ssaboum_> :( so i can't get a badge lol
[16:52]  * NCommander steals Persia's badge
[16:52] <ssaboum_> :-)
[16:53] <ssaboum_> well thank you both for helping me
[16:54] <ssaboum_> how can i become a MOTU
[16:54] <ssaboum_> ?
[17:04] <Laney> ssaboum_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[17:04] <Laney> Also the links in the topic
[17:06] <ssaboum_> ok thx
[17:10] <Laney> Basically: Do a lot of stuff, get good, get to know people, apply
[17:10] <Laney> easy eh
[17:11] <ssaboum_> :-)
[17:12] <ssaboum_> quite easy
[17:12] <ssaboum_> lol
[17:12] <stefanlsd> i think the hard part is the get good part...
[17:13] <mok0> ﻿ What does "All rights reserved" mean? Is it part of the copyright, or of the license?
[17:13] <Iulian> No, the hard part is to actually get involved.
[17:14] <stefanlsd> mm. I guess. If you want to get involved, that part is easy.  Reading and learning takes a bunch of time
[17:14] <ssaboum_> it depends on whether you're good at the social skills "thing"
[17:15] <ssaboum_> or particularly bad lol
[17:15] <stefanlsd> I think also though, don't be afraid to make mistakes and learn.
[17:15] <Iulian> stefanlsd: Reading and learning = getting involved.
[17:15] <ssaboum_> finding time for it
[17:17] <Iulian> mok0: I just found a useful page. You might want to have a look at http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/law-copyright-all-rights-reserved.html
[17:22] <persia> mok0: The phrase "All rights reserved" has no legal meaning except in Nicaragua and Honduras, where it is a required statement in order to preserve expected copyright limitations.
[17:22] <persia> (or at least that's what I heard)
[17:26] <ssaboum_> may i ask something about packaging
[17:26] <askand> Hi, where was the decision abot choosing F-spot and EOG over gThumb taken? IRC or some mailinlist?
[17:27] <ssaboum_> when you've got a program that needs in the same directory a lot of files,
[17:27] <ssaboum_> you can't put it directly into /usr/bin or /usr/games (don't matter)
[17:27] <ssaboum_> how can you do ?
[17:28] <persia> If those files aren't separate executables, they are typically put in /usr/share/$package, /usr/lib/$package, or /usr/games/$package depending on the type of file and type of package.
[17:28] <ssaboum_> i agree
[17:29] <ssaboum_> but the best practice is to put one executable into /usr/bin
[17:29] <ssaboum_> isn't it ?
[17:42] <mok0> persia: thanks. Wow
[17:43] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.  Interesting reading.
[17:43] <nxvl> good morning
[17:43] <persia> ssaboum_: Best practice is to put anything the user is expected to execute (including through a menu) in /usr/bin
[17:47] <jelmer> how long does it usually take for sync requests for universe to be processed?
[17:48] <persia> jelmer: It usually happens within a couple days once they reach the archive administration queue.  It can take longer in the universe sponsors queue, but there's no good way to estimate that timeframe.
[17:49] <jelmer> ah, ok - thanks
[18:13] <ssaboum_> persia
[18:14] <ssaboum_> i did some change on the package and reuploaded it,
[18:14] <ssaboum_> but it's not taken into account once again ...
[18:15] <persia> ssaboum_: Wait 20 minutes.
[18:15] <ssaboum_> ok thanks
[19:17] <frith> i am trying to backport a package to hardy
[19:17] <frith> i want to change a dependency,  i found debian/control and the .dsc file
[19:20] <persia> frith: Generally that is done in debian/control, although for autogenerated dependencies, one typically needn't make special adjustments.
[19:21] <frith> persia, i am trying to backport openldap 2.4.11 to hardy
[19:21] <frith> however there is a depend on libtool being updated
[19:22] <frith> i thought i would try and use the version in hardy
[19:22] <persia> frith: Hmm.  That might be messy, but you could try.  Does it even compile under Hardy?
[19:22] <frith> i am sure it will, its only a point revision
[19:23] <frith> i ported 2.4.10
[19:24] <frith> but i dont' seem to be able to modify the depends to the version included in hardy
[19:24] <frith> or does apt-get build-dep openldap get its depends from somewhere else?
[19:24] <persia> Yeah, I don't expect the problem to be related to the openldap code, but to libtool.
[19:25] <persia> apt-get build-dep gets it from the data stored in the apt-cache, not from the locale package file.
[19:25] <frith> ah
[19:25] <frith> i guess i could build the depends myself
[19:30] <persia> frith: Hrm?  How do you mean?
[19:30] <persia> If you submit a package to pbuilder or sbuild, it uses the build-dependencies declared in the package.  IF you're building locally, just install what you need.
[19:33] <frith> yeah i was trying to be lazy and get apt-get build-dep to work, grep'ing out the build dep line
[19:33] <coppro> what's the Intrepid release date again?
[19:34] <persia> coppro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
[19:34] <coppro> ty
[19:36] <ssaboum_> i've got a question guys , henrik told me on revu : "debian/changelog: distro and version is wrong. please change to (0.6-0ubuntu1) intrepid or (0.6-1ubuntu1) intrepid if the package is also in debian" considering that my orig is ***_0.6.0.orig.tar.gz
[19:36] <ssaboum_> will revu understand if i change the name onto japanesevocabulary_0.6-0ubuntu1.orig that it's still the same package ....
[19:37] <frith> i wish the base would stay the same and there would be app updates
[19:38] <ScottK-laptop> frith: That's where backports comes in.
[19:39] <frith> ScottK, that is what i am doing
[19:39] <frith> and if by magic openldap 2.4.11 appears
[19:39] <Laney> This is a guide to effective compliance with the GNU General Public License (GPL) and related licenses. In accordance with the Software Freedom Law Center’s (SFLC’s) philosophy of assisting the community with GPL compliance cooperatively, this guide focuses on avoiding compliance actions and minimizing the negative impact when enforcement actions occur. It introduces and explains basic legal concepts related to the GPL and its enforcement ...
[19:39] <Laney> ... by copyright holders. It also outlines business practices and methods that lead to better GPL compliance. Finally, it recommends proper post-violation responses to the concerns of copyright holders.
[19:39] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  Personal backports or are you askingfor official backports?
[19:39] <Laney> 2 Background
[19:40] <Laney> Erm.
[19:40] <Laney> Yeah, I didn't mean to do that. Sorry
[19:40] <Laney> (middle click)
[19:41] <ssaboum_> nevermind my questions btw
[19:41] <stefanlsd> i've had worse middle click mistakes :P
[19:41] <frith> ok ok time to backport libtool
[19:51] <calimer> I have a software project I would really like to get into edubuntu and ubuntu
[19:51] <calimer> it is at http://Kids.PlatinumArts.Net
[19:51] <Burgundavia> calimer: are you familiar with debian packaging?
[19:51] <firstman> calimer send a bug to launchpad
[19:51] <calimer> nope
[19:51] <calimer> I was just directed here when I asked
[19:51] <calimer> have been directed a lot of places
[19:51] <Burgundavia> ok
[19:51] <calimer> I am working on a "debian free" version as well
[19:51] <Burgundavia> is your program free? (in the speech sense)
[19:52] <calimer> right now the version on there isnt' because it has some non commercial content
[19:52] <calimer> but I have a version of all CC stuff that can be used commercially
[19:53] <calimer> it is basically a kid friendly version of cube 2 / sauerbraten
[19:53] <Burgundavia> right, ok
[19:53] <calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44Ww2bg2_E
[19:53] <calimer> I have already used at a bunch of schools and such with a lot of success
[19:53] <calimer> and I would really like to help more kids and teachers have access to it
[19:54] <calimer> I'm a teacher and a substitute teacher as my main job so that helps a bit
[19:54] <Burgundavia> probably one of the fastest ways to get it into Ubuntu would be find somebody in the Debian world to help you package it, that way both Debian and ubuntu get it
[19:54] <calimer> okay I did have a lady who said she would help with that but then she stopped responding to my messages
[19:54] <calimer> do you know anyone I could contact?
[19:55] <calimer> it feels a lot of times like I'm kind of going in circles
[19:55] <Burgundavia> the debian games team would be a good bet
[19:55] <Burgundavia> the challenge is that you really need to somebody to help maintain it
[19:56] <calimer> looks like these guys
[19:56] <calimer> http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development
[19:56] <firstman> calimer if you want this package in debian you should send a RFP (request for packaging) bug to debian
[19:56] <calimer> okay, let me try to find that spot
[19:57] <calimer> think I got it
[19:57] <calimer> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
[19:57] <calimer> I'll e-mail that lady again for the heck of it
[19:57] <calimer> she said she'd help maintain it
[19:57] <Burgundavia> calimer: if you don't get help there, come back here and somebody can show you how to package
[19:57] <calimer> okay awesome, and thanks for your time and help
[19:58] <calimer> I've just seen how happy the little dudes and dudettes are using it, so it is well worth whatever to me
[19:59] <calimer> saving all this to a txt file
[19:59] <firstman> but if you haven't a free version, it will no included on Debian
[20:00] <calimer> debian free I think you more specifically mean, correct?
[20:00] <calimer> where everything can be used commercially
[20:02] <Burgundavia> yes
[20:02] <Burgundavia> if it can be redistributed but not used commercially it goes in non-free
[20:02] <calimer> I think the best would be both
[20:03] <calimer> the non commercial one in the non free and the commercial one in the free
[20:03] <calimer> that way people who want the extra content and stuff can grab the non commercial one
[20:05] <Burgundavia> calimer: sure, you could two data packages
[20:06] <calimer> they are quite different
[20:06] <Burgundavia> just means you have to release three tarballs, one with the app, and one for each of the datasets
[20:06] <calimer> a lot easier to get more content if you agree to non commercial licenses
[20:06] <calimer> ah I think I understand
[20:06] <calimer> hmm that could be a problem though
[20:06] <calimer> since they both load things differently
[20:07] <calimer> well maybe not, hmm
[20:07] <calimer> I guess it depends how it is packaged
[20:07] <Burgundavia> well, the program would depend upon the free data set and have the non-free data set as a suggests
[20:07] <Burgundavia> afaik, IANADD
[20:07] <calimer> what is ianadd?
[20:08] <calimer> i am not a debian developer?
[20:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[20:08] <calimer> woo I solved the riddle, sweet
[20:08] <calimer> well we'll see what happens
[20:09] <calimer> the main thing is to get it into edubuntu me thinks
[20:09] <frith> persia, don't know if you are interested, but i backported libtool
[20:10] <ssaboum_> :-)
[20:10] <ssaboum_> good job
[20:21] <frith> oh wow this backport of ldap is passing all the test :)
[20:21] <frith> happiness
[20:36] <RainCT> Heya
[20:37] <Laney> lo RainCT
[20:38] <jpds> RainCT: Hello.
[20:39] <Laney> Grr. Some files in a library I'm packaging don't have copyright headers. Is this a problem, and can I do anything about it besides talking to upstream?
[20:41] <devfil_> A MOTU can take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/260625 please?
[20:42] <Laney> devfil_: Why can't it wait for uus?
[20:43] <devfil_> Laney: 1: new package so it needs to be on NEW queue in order to get accepted, 2: after the acceptation I will open a bug to remove another package, etc...
[20:44] <ScottK-laptop> Laney: Does the package include a complete verbatim copy of the license in the tarball?
[20:44]  * directhex badgers people hard to sponsor #260935
[20:45] <directhex> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger launchpad launchpad!
[20:45] <sebner> ScottK-laptop: ping :P
[20:45] <Laney> ScottK-laptop: Yes, it has the LGPL 2.1 in there. But a couple of the examples are GPL2 too and there isn't a copy of that...
[20:46] <directhex> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger... launchpad launchpad!
[20:46] <vorian> whois directhex
[20:46] <vorian> fail
[20:46] <NCommander> directhex, sponsor what?
[20:46] <sebner> vorian: a badger freak
[20:47] <vorian> nod :)
[20:47] <ScottK-laptop> Laney: That'll be a problem then.  You can repack the tarball to include the GPL is upstream won't do it.
[20:47] <directhex> NCommander, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/260935
[20:47] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: Yes?
[20:48] <sebner> directhex vorian bad idea
[20:48] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Someone is whining about rpath issues in Courier.  Would you mind taking a look?
[20:48] <NCommander> *swears*
[20:48] <NCommander> I fixed the rpath issues
[20:48] <NCommander> Unless they occur on i386 and not amd64
[20:48] <sebner> directhex: bug #260147
[20:48] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, link?
[20:48] <Laney> ScottK-laptop: Right then (I guess I can't put it in the .diff.gz?). The missing headers aren't a problem?
[20:48]  * ScottK-laptop looks for the bug.
[20:48] <sebner> ScottK: MIR \o/
[20:49]  * NCommander detangles his headphones
[20:49] <ScottK-laptop> Laney: Not idea, but not a killer.
[20:49] <ScottK-laptop> idea/ideal
[20:49] <directhex> sebner, now, why did searching LP now come up with that?
[20:49] <directhex> sebner, i searched lots, i did!
[20:49] <directhex> not
[20:49] <directhex> s/now/not/
[20:50] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Bug 260899
[20:50] <sebner> directhex: ^^, dunno. np
[20:50] <NCommander> oh ew
[20:50] <NCommander> I dont' strip the rpath
[20:50] <NCommander> At least I don't think I do
[20:51] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, rpath's are really only acceptable if its for private modules for a program, but courier-authlib looks like a PAM module
[20:52] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I agree I don't like the proposed solution.
[20:52] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I was hoping you'd come up with the right one.
[20:52] <NCommander> I'm really not familar with Debian's policy w.r.t to ld.so.conf
[20:52] <NCommander> Moving the libraries into /usr/lib would work however
[20:55] <NCommander> I can't find anything on ld.so.conf on Debian although GOogle giving me issues
[20:56] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: Let me know if you need help.
[20:56] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I'm betting sistpoty would know if he were here.
[20:56] <sebner> ScottK: well I surely don't have the time to start today but tomorrow. Something like a starting point, tips and tricks ,..
[20:57] <calimer> wooo cool it looks like the lady is going to help maintain sandbox
[20:57] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavSpamassassinInMain has what needs doing.
[20:58] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess describes the process.
[20:58] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: Ping me to review before subscribing ubuntu-mir to the bug.
[20:59] <NCommander> ScottK, On my system ld.conf.so redirects to /etc/ld.conf.so.d/*, which only has files that list three folders
[20:59] <sebner> ScottK-laptop: of course. And yes, the links *are* exactly what I need :) Already edit the wiki to assign things to me?
[21:00] <NCommander> Its ugly that courier's authlib is in courier-authlib(-dev), and not libcourier
[21:00] <ScottK-laptop> sebner: Yes.  But just do one at a time when you are ready to work on it.
[21:00] <directhex> launchpad really hates me today :/
[21:00] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Yes.
[21:00] <ScottK-laptop> directhex: It's not personal.  It's generally user hostile.
[21:00] <sebner> ScottK-laptop: kk :) will ping you tomorrow when I have questions or have finished one
[21:00] <ScottK-laptop> Great.
[21:00] <NCommander> I think the proper fix is moving things to /usr/lib, but that doesnt' seem right either
[21:02] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, I assigned myself to the bug and confirmed it
[21:02] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Thanks.
[21:03] <frith> yay! and a nice backport of openldap
[21:08]  * NCommander wishes he was a backport developer
[21:11] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: What does that mean?
[21:11] <NCommander> It means I wishes I could do backporting ;-)
[21:12] <ScottK-laptop> Easy enough after you get MOTU.  We can always use more people to review stuff.
[21:12] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: You could get started doing backports testing now.
[21:12] <NCommander> I'm currently running Intrepid (to head xfce-4.6 beta packaging)
[21:13] <NCommander> I need to install hardy into a lvm chroot once I get around to reparitioning the HDD
[21:13] <ScottK-laptop> Or Dapper/Feisty/Gutsy too for that matter.
[21:14] <NCommander> Dapper should have died when we released the last LTS
[21:14]  * NCommander is starting to think five years may be too long
[21:15] <ScottK-laptop> Red Hat does 7.
[21:15]  * NCommander sticks his foot in his mouth
[21:15] <NCommander> well, that's for servers
[21:15] <ScottK-laptop> So is the 5.
[21:15] <ScottK-laptop> LTS is 3 years for Desktops.
[21:15] <NCommander> Oh
[21:15] <NCommander> wait, Dapper was only two years ago?
[21:15] <NCommander> Damn
[21:16] <directhex> good, innit
[21:17] <directhex> LTS should only "support" main/restricted in LTS terms. no community person wants to backport obscure fixes on 4-year-old apps
[21:17] <NCommander> seconded
[21:17] <ScottK-laptop> It's good for backports too.
[21:18] <ScottK-laptop> You can still install the current upstream release of Postfix from dapper-backports.
[21:18] <ScottK-laptop> Unless you're on amd64.
[21:18] <directhex> the funny thing about LTS support though is how much it differs from support on SLES/RHEL
[21:19] <ScottK-laptop> How do they work?
[21:19] <directhex> they install upstream updates
[21:19] <directhex> SLES 10 versus 10SP1 versus 10SP2 have MAJOR updates
[21:20] <directhex> and the kernel especially. dapper's kernel was useless for new hardware within a couple of months of rease
[21:20] <directhex> RHEL3's up to what, the 7th major rollup update, incl bleeding edge drivers in the kernel?
[21:21] <ScottK-laptop> Right, which is why they did 6.06.2
[21:22] <ScottK-laptop> I think they've learned their lesson and will do every 6 month updates for new hardware support.
[21:22] <NCommander> what was 6.06.2?
[21:22] <ScottK-laptop> Update to Dapper for new hardware done about the time Gutsy released, IIRC.
[21:23] <directhex> ScottK-laptop, for those who were bitten already, they won't be eager to try it out again
[21:23] <ScottK-laptop> Sure.
[21:23] <directhex> ScottK-laptop, i had about a week to make an emergency change in core infrastructure design away from dapper due to 6.06's kernel
[21:23] <ScottK-laptop> Lovely.
[21:24] <rawler> is it possible to get an email from revu when I get comments on an upload of mine?
[21:24] <ScottK-laptop> There's a mail list to get them all.
[21:25] <rawler> oh, high volume?
[21:25] <ScottK-laptop> For some values of high, no.
[21:25] <rawler> heh.. uhm, thanks, I guess.. ;)
[21:26] <directhex> i should cook dinner
[21:26] <NCommander> rawler, its on the todo list for REVU
[21:26] <mgdm> Laney: ok then :)
[21:26] <directhex> then prepare a monodoc 1.9-2ubuntu1 merge
[21:26] <NCommander> (I though RainCT rolled that code)
[21:26] <directhex> then bug main sponsors for it. yay, i love bugging main sponsors
[21:26] <Laney> mgdm: \o/
[21:27] <NCommander> my laptop about to die
[21:27] <rawler> oki.. just found the RSS-feed.. works almost as well for me.. :)
[21:27] <Laney> rawler: http://exo.org.uk/code/rss2mail/
[21:28] <Laney> rawler: Or rss2email in the repos
[21:29] <rawler> yeah, well.. I already subscribe to rss quite frequently.. the only difference is I won't be notified of comments during work-hours, which may be a good thing after all.. ;)
[21:45] <mgdm> anyone else tried to package Pidgin 2.5.0? I'm trying it for comedy value, but it fails applying the patches
[21:45] <devfil_> mgdm: it is already in intrepid repository
[21:45] <mgdm> devfil_: Can that be rebuilt for Hardy...?
[21:46]  * mgdm <-- utter newbie
[21:46] <foxbuntu> mgdm, I am running it right nwo
[21:46] <foxbuntu> now*
[21:46] <devfil_> mgdm: if all build-deps are also in hardy yes
[21:50] <mgdm> devfil_ / foxbuntu: ta, I'll try rebuilding it
[21:51] <foxbuntu> mgdm, I am running Intrepid
[21:53] <Laney> mgdm: Use pbuilder/sbuild/prevu to build the Intrepid package for Hardy
[21:53] <Laney> If you check the upgrade bug the package upgrade was fairly complex
[21:54] <mgdm> Laney: ta
[21:54] <Laney> Bug #259453
[22:02] <mgdm> "Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies" <-- how do I find out what went wrong? And is there a HOWTO I should read instead of bugging you guys? :)
[22:04] <mgdm> oh, hang on, it does tell me, just about 3 screenfuls back.
[23:04] <Arc> can anyone advise on what's needed to get the motu games group restarted?
[23:05] <ssaboum_> sorry i'm just a noob in the community
[23:06] <ssaboum_> but you're not alone :-)
[23:06] <ssaboum_> hi lol
[23:06] <Arc> in wanting to get it going again?
[23:06] <ssaboum_> yeah and in the chatroom lol
[23:06] <Arc> ah ok
[23:07] <Arc> well apparently awhile ago the motu team defuncted to debian, leaving Ubuntu with an "independence hole" in people to manage packages that differ from Sid
[23:08] <Arc> or even just keeping games-related packages better updated
[23:08] <nxvl> Arc: they are working together
[23:09] <nxvl> Arc: it's pointless to work on making the delta bigger when you can work together
[23:10] <Arc> so in the current situation it's impossible to get an Ubuntu variant of a debian games package included?
[23:11] <nxvl> on, you actually can, but i don't see the point
[23:11] <mok0> Argh, I found an error in a package I uploaded. Can I supersede it by uploading again?
[23:11] <nxvl> mok0: nop, you need to make a new revision
[23:11] <nxvl> been there
[23:11] <Arc> nxvl: well the most immediate issue we're looking at for our next release is it looks like debian is declaring the AGPLv3 non-free
[23:12] <mok0> nxvl: I uploaded -0ubuntu3, should've been -0ubuntu1.2
[23:12] <Arc> and last I checked, Ubuntu isn't held to this sort of nonsense
[23:12] <nxvl> Arc: AGPL?
[23:12] <nxvl> mok0: heh, you'r done
[23:12] <Arc> nxvl: it's a FSF license, GPLv3 compatible, which requires the distribution of modified sources to remote users over a network
[23:13] <mok0> nxvl: I need someone to zap it then
[23:13] <nxvl> mok0: ask slangasek, but i don't think it's possible to revert that
[23:13] <Arc> it was designed for webapps, where software is rarely "distributed"
[23:13] <mok0> slangasek: ping
[23:13] <nxvl> Arc: link?
[23:13] <cody-somerville> mok0, what release and pocket did you upload to?
[23:13] <mok0> cody-somerville: hardy-proposed
[23:14] <cody-somerville> Okay, so it is in the queue anyhow
[23:14] <Arc> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html
[23:14] <mok0> cody-somerville: it's in the "unapproved" queue
[23:14] <Arc> the only variant between the GPLv3 and AGPLv3 is section 13
[23:14] <nxvl> mok0: oh, it can (will) be rejected from there, so don't worry
[23:15] <mok0> nxvl: right.
[23:15]  * mok0 kicks self
[23:15] <nxvl> Arc: and why is it considered non-Free?
[23:15] <Arc> nxvl: because it's different from the GPL
[23:16] <nxvl> that's not a reason
[23:16] <nxvl> even for DD's
[23:16] <Arc> the short of it is I feel Ubuntu shouldn't be at the mercy of the various Debian practices
[23:16] <Arc> there should be a way to route around them
[23:16] <nxvl> there is a lot of ways
[23:17] <nxvl> but we don't want to take them
[23:17] <nxvl> it's pointless
[23:17] <Arc> so what is the point of Ubuntu as a project if it's not possible to have a variant between the package repositories?
[23:17] <cody-somerville> It is possible :-]
[23:18] <RainCT> nxvl: I guess that's because the AGPL *forces* you to distribute any change you do
[23:18] <Arc> I know that's not true, because I've seen -ubuntu variants
[23:18] <Arc> RainCT: only modified versions to remote users of your modified version
[23:19] <nxvl> RainCT: gpl too
[23:19] <Arc> the question comes down to who the freedoms of free software should belong to, the users or the owner of the machine the software is run on
[23:19] <RainCT> nxvl: no, the GPL doesn't, unless you distribute the binary version
[23:19] <Arc> the AGPLv3 was created because this provision was controversial during the GPLv3 community feedback stage and was split into a second, explicitally GPLv3 compatible license
[23:20] <Arc> GPLv3 section 13 provides the ability to link GPLv3 code into an AGPLv3 project (but not vice versa)
[23:21] <Arc> I've read about Canonical looking to use the AGPLv3 for launchpad
[23:22] <ajmitch> interesting
[23:23] <RainCT> nxvl: and like I see it, that what users get is "the result produced by the application" (in the case of the HTML and whatever generated by a server-side application), not the application itself
[23:23] <Arc> in any case, I maintain a AGPLv3 licensed game engine project, and all games using our engine must be licensed under the AGPLv3 as well, so specifically in the area around our engine we have a problem with having to rely on Debian's packaging
[23:24] <Arc> also I'd like to package a separate -ubuntu version that includes more accessible documentation and example scripts
[23:24] <nxvl> RainCT: i actually doesn't care a lot about licenses :D
[23:24] <RainCT> (note: I have no opinion on wheter Ubuntu should accept AGPL'd stuff or not -at least not yet :)-)
[23:25] <nxvl> just show me the code
[23:25] <RainCT> Arc: about your Launchpad comment, that makes sense, as this way there can't be no Launchpad derivative better than theirs (at least not if they don't want this to happen, as they can just take the code)
[23:26] <Arc> RainCT: absolutely
[23:27] <Arc> the purpose of our engine is to promote copyleft games, and even in lack of some of the planned features (a firefox plugin for remote gaming) server code is still an issue
[23:27] <Arc> so the AGPLv3 was an obvious choice.
[23:29] <Arc> in any case, I know how to package for Ubuntu, I'm one of the core members involved with our LoCo, so the only question I have is what process we'll have to go through to get our next release packaged for ubuntu
[23:29] <Arc> or rather, included for ubuntu
[23:29] <RainCT> Arc: you could try raising it on ubuntu-devel-discuss@
[23:29] <Arc> to ask what the process is?
[23:30] <RainCT> Arc: to ask if Ubuntu should accept AGPL'd stuff
[23:31] <RainCT> or wasn't that your concern?
[23:31] <Arc> I would think that would be a technical council issue
[23:31] <RainCT> wb nxvl
[23:31] <Arc> no my question is around how to get an Ubuntu-specific package included
[23:31] <Arc> I know almost nothing about how MOTU works, our loco team advisor just sent me here to ask
[23:32] <RainCT> Arc: probably, but I suppose that the technical boards' members are subscribed there, and this way all developers have a chance to comment
[23:32] <RainCT> !revu
[23:32] <RainCT> Arc: about how to get it included, see that ^
[23:32] <RainCT> Arc: or the quick link, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
[23:37] <RainCT> Arc: btw, Feature Freeze is about to start
[23:38] <Arc> feature freese for 8.10?
[23:38] <nxvl> yep
[23:39] <Arc> not an issue
[23:39] <nxvl> it's taking place on 28
[23:39] <nxvl> 4 days from now on
[23:40] <Arc> we're going to be releasing beta3 sometime this fall, beta4 this winter
[23:40] <nxvl> that would be for intrepid+1 then
[23:40] <Arc> yea
[23:40] <Arc> we can always put a .deb on our download page for beta testers
[23:41] <Arc> what I'm investigating is the "how", I've been google searching and asking our loco advisor for how to get a package into Ubuntu, what the process is, who we have to go through
[23:42] <Arc> since there's apparently no longer a MOTU games group, that's unclear to me.  I'd think normally we'd go to them
[23:42] <cody-somerville> You just get any old MOTU to upload your changes
[23:43] <RainCT> cody-somerville: iiuc it's a new package
[23:43] <emgent> hello people
[23:44] <RainCT> Arc: so as I already said you would upload it to revu.ubuntuwire.com and ask for feedback
[23:44] <Arc> and will inevitably be many new packages
[23:44] <nxvl> Arc: it actually still is an ubuntu games team, they just work with debian to get all the fix posible into debian and then sync into ubuntu
[23:44] <cody-somerville> Arc, If it is a new package, you upload it yourself to revu.ubuntuwire.com and get two MOTUs to give their approval
[23:44] <RainCT> Arc: then once two MOTU's are happy with it (and if nobody has complained) it will be uploaded
[23:44] <Arc> in more detail, the engine is a set of Python extensions, the games are all Python based
[23:44] <nxvl> Arc: but the ubuntu specific issues are fixed in ubuntu
[23:45] <Arc> ok launchpad shows only 2 members of motu games, and I've seen references that say the team is defuct since they all moved to debian
[23:46] <cody-somerville> Arc, If you're really interested, wait and speak with bddebian
[23:47] <bddebian> Yeah we have kind of all merged on the Debian games team
[23:48] <Arc> bddebian: ok so how does an Ubuntu-specific games package get handled?
[23:48] <bddebian> What makes it Ubuntu specific?
[23:49] <Arc> that it differs from whatever Debian may end up packaging
[23:49] <Arc> quite frankly, I'd rather Debian not package us at all
[23:49] <bddebian> Oh, then don't worry about it
[23:49] <cody-somerville> Arc, make love, not war!
[23:49] <Arc> inclusion of documentation, examples, making these things available
[23:49] <bddebian> heh
[23:50] <Arc> cody-somerville: "I didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world started turning.."
[23:50] <nxvl> btw
[23:50] <Arc> we're not going to work with a group that classifies us in the same category as proprietary software
[23:50] <cody-somerville> mmmkay now.
[23:50] <nxvl> even if it's AGPL it can make it to debian non-free repository
[23:51]  * cody-somerville goes to buy some ruffled original chips.
[23:51] <Arc> nxvl: and to be frank, I'd rather not be packaged for Debian than be advertised as non-free
[23:51] <nxvl> Arc: well, in ubuntu you will have it in multiverse maybe
[23:52] <Arc> what is multiverse?
[23:52] <cody-somerville> non-free
[23:52]  * cody-somerville coughs.
[23:52] <nxvl> ubuntu's non-free repo
[23:53] <Arc> even though Ubuntu isn't held to the DFSG nonsense
[23:53] <Arc> the AGPLv3 is very much a free software license
[23:53] <cody-somerville> nxvl, Why would it be in multiverse?
[23:53] <nxvl> cody-somerville: i've make a little research on the web about the AGPL
[23:53] <nxvl> and it seems not to free
[23:54] <Arc> nxvl: then you disagree with both the FSF and OSI
[23:54] <nxvl> it seems that it doesn't allow comercial use of the software
[23:54] <cody-somerville> Has the archive admins rejected an AGPL package yet?
[23:54] <Arc> nxvl: please read the license text itself
[23:54] <cody-somerville> Has the tech board made a decision?
[23:54] <Arc> it very much does allow commercial use.
[23:55] <nxvl> cody-somerville: not that i know
[23:55] <nxvl> i can't find debian's or ubuntu decision about it
[23:55] <nxvl> i've saw that google banned it from google code
[23:55] <cody-somerville> nxvl, well, lets not proclaim things to be a certain why until we know so?
[23:56] <nxvl> cody-somerville: that's what i said it might, not say it will
[23:56] <Arc> nxvl: that is because Google is *furious* that they're not being allowed to take, modify, and provide via webapp many GNU apps anymore
[23:56] <Arc> Google is a big reason why the AGPLv3 has become popular
[23:56] <cody-somerville> Arc, I suggest you bring this up on the mailing list
[23:56] <cody-somerville> There is no point discussing it further here.
[23:56] <Arc> cody-somerville: I plan on it.
[23:56] <Arc> but the license issue isn't the question I came here for
[23:56]  * cody-somerville nods nods.
[23:57] <cody-somerville> Arc, Can you state your question again and I'll see if I can answer it for you before I really do have to go get some munchies?
[23:57] <nxvl> yeah i don't know a lot of licenses and don't care much about it
[23:57] <ScottK-laptop> Arc: I don't think there's a formal decision in Debian and not much discussion in Ubuntu.
[23:57] <Arc> ok.  I'm going to be releasing a .deb packages for Ubuntu on our download page for our beta3 release, the question is how does it get from there to included in Ubuntu
[23:57] <ScottK-laptop> Arc: Personally I think it's clearly not a DFSG free license.
[23:58] <ScottK-laptop> It can go in multiverse though.
[23:58] <nxvl> and althought in ubuntu we are more open with license, we respect DFSG
[23:58] <cody-somerville> Arc, You can file a needs-packaging bug on launchpad
[23:59] <wgrant> ScottK-laptop: WHich part of the DFSG does it violate?
[23:59] <Arc> cody-somerville: we don't need packaging help
[23:59] <ScottK-laptop> nxvl: The one exception we make to DFSG is that we allow GFDL invariant docs in the main repo.
[23:59] <cody-somerville> Arc, or if you want to try and get it into the archive yourself, follow the directions on those links nxvl gave you
[23:59] <ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Use restriction.
[23:59] <Arc> the AGPLv3 does not restrict use.
[23:59] <nxvl> ScottK-laptop: yup
[23:59] <nxvl> :D
[23:59] <ScottK-laptop> Arc: It restricts use of modified code.
[23:59] <wgrant> ScottK-laptop: True.
[23:59] <Arc> it absolutely does not restrict the use of modified code
[23:59] <wgrant> It does.
[23:59] <cody-somerville> Okay.
[23:59] <ScottK-laptop> Arc: It does.  You can't use it unless you distribute it.
[23:59] <Arc> any more than the GPL restricts distribution