[00:30] <LaserJock> siretart: around?
[00:49] <ArneGoetje> hmm... seems update-notifier doesn't work anymore in intrepid... is this a known issue?
[02:46] <ArneGoetje> @native-English-speakers: "In order to use your new langauge settings, please logout and re-login at your earliest convenience." Would this be an appropriate message to display to users? If not, suggestions please... :)
[02:46] <ArneGoetje> s/langauge/language/
[02:53] <bryce> ArneGoetje: looks good to me
[02:53] <bryce> I might use 'enable' instead of 'use' but it reads fine either way
[02:57] <ArneGoetje> bryce: thanks
[03:03] <ArneGoetje> argh!!! seems the latest kernel modules update on intrepid hosed my system!!! no network, no X... :(((
[03:18] <ArneGoetje> uff... no... just my own stupidity... :D
[03:26] <mneptok> ArneGoetje: i rarely utter these words, but in this case ...
[03:26] <mneptok> "mine's bigger"
[03:29] <ArneGoetje> mneptok: your stupidity?
[03:32]  * mneptok stares and drools
[03:32] <mneptok> :)
[03:40] <ion_> Mine isn't that big per se, but it's very concentrated.
[05:03] <LaserJock> anybody notice apt-cacher behaving weirdly lately? it's acting kind of flaky and the apt-cacher report says 100% cache misses and 0 transfers
[05:31] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: "please log out and log back in at your earliest convenience", IMHO
[05:40] <ScottK> slangasek: Would you be up for a bit of late night archive admining?  I'm uploading kde 3.5.10 to hardy-backports now and it'd be nice to have it all ready there when Riddell wakes up.
[05:41] <dholbach> good morning
[05:45] <dholbach> who of you would like to give a session at Ubuntu Developer Week? https://wiki.ubuntun.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep still has some free slots
[05:47] <StevenK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep perhaps
[05:47] <dholbach> yes :)
[06:04] <siretart> LaserJock: no, was already in bed
[06:05] <siretart> morning, folks!
[06:05] <LaserJock> siretart: I just had an emacs question
[06:06] <LaserJock> siretart: emacs22 doesn't seem to like fonts
[06:07] <siretart> LaserJock: well, it is an text editor, not a word processor after all ;)
[06:07] <LaserJock> it helps my eyes if the fonts look decent though
[06:07] <LaserJock> I'm supposed to use this for *everything* right? ;-)
[06:08] <ajmitch> M-x make-me-coffee
[06:09] <LaserJock> I tried and tried to get emacs22-gtk to load DeJavu or Bitstream fonts
[06:09] <LaserJock> ended up just running emacs -nw in a terminator window
[06:09] <siretart> LaserJock: Hm. I've been happy with the default fonts choosen by emacs-gtk
[06:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm sure there's lisp code somewhere for that
[06:09] <ajmitch> undoubtably
[06:09] <RAOF> Don't you need emacs-snapshot in order for emacs to have non-eyebleeding font rendering?
[06:10] <LaserJock> RAOF: I *thought* as long as it was >= 22 it should work
[06:10] <siretart> LaserJock: did you already read chapter 27.16?
[06:10] <RAOF> I'm fairly sure you'll find emacs-snapshot to work; it does for me, and 22 doesn't.
[06:11] <ScottK> slangasek: If you're up for it, bug #261366 is all uploaded now.  Just needs accepting.
[06:15] <ScottK> Good night all.
[06:17] <siretart> good night, ScottK!
[06:21] <LaserJock> RAOF: ok, so maybe our normal emacs packages aren't built with xft support?
[06:24] <RAOF> That would appear to be the case.
[06:25] <LaserJock> interesting
[06:25] <LaserJock> I thought xft was considered stable in emacs 22
[06:26] <LaserJock> in any case, the best solution for me seems to be emacs -nw :-)
[06:27] <RAOF> emacs-snapshot works.  Or there's always emacs -nw, which is what I was using for a goodly while.
[07:37] <dholbach> at last Ubuntu Developer Week we had a session about "Working With Debian" - is anybody interested in doing a session like that? I think it'd be great to have it
[07:38] <siretart> is there already a bug for hotkeys broken on thinkpads in intrepid?
[07:38] <tjaalton> siretart: do they produce events (xev)?
[07:38] <siretart> dholbach: what did that talk cover? - and when would the lessen happen?
[07:38] <siretart> tjaalton: no, not on my X60s
[07:38] <siretart> tjaalton: upgraded to intrepid yesterday
[07:38] <dholbach> siretart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0802/Debian is the session log
[07:39] <dholbach> siretart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the current schedule
[07:39] <tjaalton> siretart: try the .27 kernel. they seem to work fine on my X61 with it
[07:39] <dholbach> so there are still some open slots
[07:40] <siretart> tjaalton: is there a package for the .27 kernel yet? - or how can I try that out?
[07:41] <tjaalton> siretart: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/pub/next/2.6.27-rc3/intrepid/
[07:41] <tjaalton> the rc4 version is uploaded to the archive and built, just not published
[07:41] <tjaalton> even suspend works with this (and not .26) :)
[07:42] <siretart> suspend to ram works for me on .26, I didn't try out hibernate, though
[07:42] <tjaalton> mine just resumes right away with .26
[07:43] <siretart> tjaalton: oh, that directory misses lrm. I expect that would break my wireless (iwl3945), right?
[07:43] <RAOF> siretart: I don't believe so, no?
[07:44] <siretart> okay, then lets try
[07:44] <tjaalton> siretart: nope, works fine
[07:44] <RAOF> at least, I'm using that rc3 kernel and my iwl works
[07:48] <navandres1972> hi everyone
[07:48] <navandres1972> short question
[07:49] <navandres1972> there is some a way to develop iphone code on ubuntu??
[07:49] <dholbach> siretart: would you be interested in such a session?
[07:50] <siretart> dholbach: why not, but I'm not sure if I find enough time to prepare myself. I'd be more happy to do that session in a team. please give me a few hours to check
[07:51] <dholbach> who would be interested to give a session about "working with debian" together with siretart?
[07:53] <siretart> tjaalton: booting .27 now. it enables bluetooth at bootup now? huh?
[07:55] <siretart> tjaalton: yes, with .27 many hotkeys (not all) now do emit events in xev. thanks!
[07:57] <tjaalton> siretart: cool
[07:59] <siretart> tjaalton: bug 256887 however is present with .27 as well
[07:59] <siretart> perhaps not that surprising, but anyway. perhaps some hotkey guru might want to look at the package?
[08:07] <fabbione> morning guys
[08:07] <fabbione> Riddell: ping?
[08:12] <baali> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=634034 is there any solution to this post,
[08:12] <baali> i am stuck with same thing
[09:42]  * fabbione really needs an archive admin to new a package
[09:43] <dholbach> fabbione: I can't help you with that - sorry, but do you think you could take a look at bug 259579?
[09:43] <fabbione> dholbach: looking
[09:43] <dholbach> yoohooo!
[09:44] <fabbione> dholbach: oh absolutely.. i need to rework the init script anyway
[09:44] <fabbione> that section is not even used in ubuntu packages.. it comes from debian
[09:44] <dholbach> fabbione: nice... it turned up on my sponsoring queue radar and I thought that you might be the best person to talk to about it
[09:44] <fabbione> dholbach: i'll take care of it
[09:44]  * dholbach hugs super-fabbione
[09:44] <fabbione> but i need people to new corosync so that new openais can build so that i can upload a new redhat-cluster :)
[09:45] <fabbione> otherwise i can upload but it will stall there :)
[09:45] <dholbach> yeah, that makes sense :-/
[09:47] <sdh> hm
[09:47] <sdh> if there's a bug in package foo on hardy, but it's fixed in the new version (which is in debian testing), do i need to file a bug on launchpad?
[09:48] <cjwatson> if you want it fixed in intrepid+1, no; if you want it fixed in intrepid, yes; if you want it fixed in hardy, yes, with extra justification as to why it's worth changing hardy
[09:48] <sdh> cool, ok thanks
[09:48] <sdh> i'll go for intrepid :)
[09:49] <cjwatson> in any of the "yes" cases, it will help to use the "also affects distribution" link to add a reference to the Debian bug URL
[09:49] <soren> cjwatson: Did you say my debian-cd changes got merged?
[09:49] <sdh> cjwatson: there is no bug url for debian, they just redesigned stuff and fixed it by chance :)(
[09:49] <cjwatson> soren: yes
[09:49] <cjwatson> sdh: oh, ok
[09:52] <soren> cjwatson: Hm... Ok.
[09:54] <dholbach> kees: did jdstrand talk to you about a security session at Ubuntu Developer Week? Does anybody of the MOTU SWAT know when you guys planned to hold such a session?
[10:08] <Riddell> fabbione: pong
[10:11] <fabbione> Riddell: hi, sorry i need some of your help to new a package because i think seb128 forgot about it (even if he said he was going to do it)
[10:11] <fabbione> Riddell: do you have time now?
[10:11] <Riddell> fabbione: can do
[10:12] <fabbione> Riddell: ok awesome. main had src: openais that has been spitted upstream into 2 sources. source one: corosync (need both src and binary new) and openais (new version)
[10:12] <fabbione> Riddell: i didn't file a MIR for corosync (on seb128 input since it's just a split), but it needs to go in main
[10:12] <fabbione> Riddell: corosync is now a Build-Dep for openais and redhat-cluster
[10:14] <Riddell> looking
[10:14] <fabbione> thanks
[10:18] <fabbione> Riddell: thanks.. got the emails
[10:18] <soren> cjwatson: Do you have a minute to spare? It's about those debian-cd changes.
[10:18] <Riddell> fabbione: accepted corosync
[10:18] <fabbione> Riddell: awesome thanks again
[10:19] <cjwatson> soren: go ahead
[10:20] <soren> cjwatson: When I added the "minimal server" install option, I put it into gfxboot.cfg, because the code I copied did that, but it seems that it actually belogs in text.cfg (and has to look differently), but I'm not sure at all where to put the code then.
[10:23] <cjwatson> soren: why does it belong in text.cfg? the other similar options aren't there
[10:24] <soren> cjwatson: PErhaps we have a different understanding of "similar" :)
[10:24] <soren> Well, ok, let's start from the top.. Where does it belong?
[10:24] <dholbach> evand: What do you think about a session about the Installer (and the Team behind it) at Ubuntu Developer Week?
[10:24] <soren> ...and then let's deal with how we're going to put it there afterwards.
[10:25] <cjwatson> soren: I don't see what's wrong with gfxboot.cfg. text.cfg is only used for fallbacks when gfxboot doesn't work
[10:25] <cjwatson> (that's a simplification, but close enough)
[10:25] <soren> cjwatson: Okay. Well, it doesn't seem to work.
[10:25] <cjwatson> that's a better place to start than randomly moving it around :)
[10:25] <soren> cjwatson: The option isn't shown.
[10:25] <soren> Heh, true.
[10:26] <soren> I just went looking for where the options that actually /did/ show up were defined, and they're all in text.cfg.
[10:26] <soren> So now I'm not sure at all :/
[10:29] <cjwatson> does the thing you're seeing look like gfxboot? for example, does it have the menu bar across the bottom?
[10:32] <soren> cjwatson: Yes.
[10:33] <soren> cjwatson: Are you implying that if you start up a recent server ISO, you actually see the "install minimal system" option?
[10:33] <cjwatson> rsyncing the image now to have a look
[10:33] <cjwatson> I'm implying nothing right now
[10:33] <soren> cjwatson: I rsynced only half an hour ago... I'll do it again.
[10:34] <cjwatson> I don't see why that would help
[10:34] <cjwatson> today's build won't have finished yet
[10:35] <cjwatson> hmm, or maybe it has actually, sorry
[10:36] <soren> Oh, you said "rsync/ing/ the image now to have a look"... I thought you told me to rsync it to have a look.
[10:36] <soren> :)
[10:36] <cjwatson> oh, right, sorry :)
[10:36] <soren> Not your fault I can't read :)
[10:38] <fabbione> Riddell: corosync is built everywhere. not sure you need to NEW binaries as well
[11:00] <cjwatson> soren: oh, it's showing up in the F4 menu
[11:00] <cjwatson> I guess that isn't ideal if you aren't finding it
[11:00] <cjwatson> although conceptually it's the proper place
[11:01] <soren> Oh!
[11:01] <soren> Hm..
[11:01] <soren> It's not quite what I expected, no.
[11:02] <soren> cjwatson: Hm... Let me think about that for a bit.
[11:09] <ogra-Q1> tsk
[11:10] <ogra-Q1> empathy is really weird
[11:10] <ogra-Q1> but then its probably not designed for IRC first place
[11:11] <siretart> tjaalton: any chance we can enable the ext4dev module? I couldn't mount a usb-hardrive of a from a friend of mine because of lacking ext4dev module in the kernel
[11:12] <ogra-Q1> siretart: in a linux-ubuntu-modules-gambling package :)
[11:12] <tjaalton> siretart: you probably want to ask BenC?-)
[11:13] <siretart> ok :)
[12:24] <ogra> is the pam note in the channel topic stil relevant ?
[12:24] <ogra> *still
[12:24] <ogra> afaik we're at 1.0.1-3ubuntu4
[13:07] <waistless> I know this isn't support, but is there anyway I can find a package which contains a bugfix I REALLY need?
[13:07] <waistless> i.e this bug which has supposedly been fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/44233
[13:12] <ogra> waistless, well, its fixed .. the prob is that nobody seems to have opened a new bug for the second issue that showed up along debugging ever
[13:13] <waistless> :( ok, any workaround?
[13:13] <ogra> comma separated fstab options are definately parsed properly now (whic s what this bug is about)
[13:14] <ogra> open a proper new bug that adresses the other issue as is stated several times in that bug, so triagers can assign it to the right package and the right people look at it
[13:15] <ogra> bte, discussing bug handling is probably better done in #ubuntu-bugs :)
[13:15] <ogra> *btw
[13:20] <waistless> just asking, what is the other issue? (i've missed it)
[13:20] <waistless> udf doesn't mount at all?
[14:00] <evand> dholbach: sure
[14:01] <dholbach> evand: NICE
[14:01] <dholbach> evand: any slot on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep that you'd like to have?
[14:02] <evand> dholbach: Fri 1800 UTC
[14:02] <dholbach> evand: shall I add it to the schedule for you?
[14:02] <evand> sure, thank you
[14:02] <dholbach> evand: what title would you like?
[14:03] <evand> Introduction to the Installer Team
[14:03] <dholbach> nice :)
[14:04] <dholbach> evand: thanks a bunch!
[14:04] <evand> any time
[14:04] <dholbach> done... once the wiki has saved the page :)
[14:06] <ogra> Riddell, could i ask you to fix Bug #244531 for me (as you are archive admin of the day it seems), so dholbach stops poking me about bug #211710 :)
[14:07] <Laney> (why is Xaos in main?)
[14:07] <ogra> Laney, part of edubuntu
[14:07] <Laney> ah
[14:08] <ogra> or ubuntu-education ... or however we call it today :P
[14:08] <mpt> Does anything that ships with Ubuntu by default use Tcl/Tk?
[14:08] <Riddell> ogra: done
[14:08]  * ogra hugs Riddell 
[14:09] <mpt> (I mean, anything on the CD)
[14:10] <ogra> mpt, i dont think so (else Tcl/Tk would be on the CD)
[14:11] <mpt> ah, the age-old question
[14:11] <mpt> Without actually burning a CD, how do I tell which packages are included on the CD?
[14:11] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/intrepid-alternate-i386.list
[14:11] <cjwatson> .list or .manifest file alongside the image
[14:12] <ogra> or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/intrepid-desktop-i386.manifest
[14:12] <cjwatson> (.list is the ISO contents; .manifest is the live filesystem contents where appropriate)
[14:13] <mpt> ah, thank you
[14:13]  * mpt bookmarks
[14:14] <ogra> note thats only for the current unstable CD .... for the released ones other links apply indeed
[14:14]  * fabbione takes a lock on lvm2
[14:14] <ogra> s/CD/CDs/
[14:15] <cjwatson> anyone know what this means in Xorg.0.log? (EE) config/hal: couldn't initialise context: (null) ((null))
[14:16] <cjwatson> breaking oem-config in VMs, I think
[14:18] <sistpoty|work> cjwatson: hal wasn't started yet iirc
[14:18] <cjwatson> mm, I was just coming round to that ...
[14:19] <cjwatson> aha, I'm starting oem-config at 12
[14:19] <sistpoty|work> kdm is sadly started too early as well :(
[14:29] <ogra> *sigh* vbox modules out of date again
[14:44] <dholbach> jdstrand: did you have a chance to talk to the fine folks of the MOTU Swat team about a "Making Ubuntu more secure" session? :)
[14:45] <dholbach> (at Ubuntu Developer Week)
[15:02] <jdstrand> dholbach: no, not yet
[15:03] <fabbione> slangasek: ping?
[15:14] <fabbione> Riddell: a new version of redhat-cluster is building now (only i386 is built already) that has a library soname bump. It will need some NEW love once it's all built and new lvm2 that build-deps on these new bits has been already uploaded.
[15:14] <fabbione> Riddell: that will complete the soname transition :)
[15:14] <fabbione> Riddell: thanks dude
[15:22] <dholbach> jdstrand: it'd be great if you could pick a slot on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek later :)
[15:22] <dholbach> jdstrand, kees: thanks a lot! :)
[15:24] <fabbione> dholbach: that bug is solved in the last upload.. just pending build/new propagation
[15:24] <fabbione> dholbach: the one you mentioned this morning..
[15:25] <dholbach> fabbione: yeah, I saw it on intrepid-changes - thanks a lot for that!
[15:25]  * dholbach hugs fabbione
[15:25] <fabbione> dholbach: no problem.. hopefully i will find the time to improve those scripts.. they really need some extra love
[15:25] <fabbione> later
[15:25] <dholbach> see you fabbione - have a nice day
[15:26] <fabbione> dholbach: you too thanks but i'll be back later to check on this small transition :)
[15:26] <fabbione> just need 5 more builds :)
[15:26] <dholbach> alrighty
[15:26] <dholbach> :)
[15:31] <Adri2000> could any archive admin copy amsn srus (dapper, gutsy) to -updates please? it's bug #243722
[16:04] <dholbach> slangasek: are you interested in running a session about "How to make an archive admin happy?" at Ubuntu Developer Week?
[16:05] <StevenK> dholbach: Isn't that "File lots of removal requests" ? :-P
[16:06] <Hobbsee> StevenK: s/archive admin/ release manager/ --> don't upload new stuff during a freeze!
[16:06] <dholbach> StevenK: I guess there are so many way to make archive admins happy, including sending pizza, gift vouchers, etc - lots to cover in an one hour session
[16:07]  * Hobbsee accepts pizza, gift vouchers, coke, and a few other bits :P
[16:07] <ion_> But isn’t cocaine illegal?
[16:08] <StevenK> I suspect it's the liquid coke made by Coca-Cola Corp
[16:09] <Hobbsee> not that coke :P
[16:13] <mkrufky> its always nice when there's a large moment of silence after incriminating statements
[16:40] <nxvl> good morning!
[16:41] <Riddell> anyone know how to do jockey releases?  for lack of pitti
[16:46] <zul> asac: ping
[16:47] <asac> zul: ?
[16:47] <zul> asac: do you handle network-manager-openvpn or is that similar to openvpn?
[16:47] <asac> zul: huh? dont understand that question
[16:47] <asac> zul: i posted the patch i will upload to the bug
[16:48] <asac> it also passes --script-security 2
[16:48] <zul> asac: gotcha thanks
[17:19]  * dholbach hugs kees
[17:19] <dholbach> my security friends :)
[17:21] <fabbione> Riddell: still around?
[17:23]  * kees hugs dholbach
[17:23] <fabbione> hey kees
[17:23] <kees> dholbach: I haven't had a chance to ask any of them yet.  I will bring it up with them.
[17:23]  * dholbach hugs kees back :)
[17:23] <kees> fabbione: hola!
[17:25] <fabbione> i guess Riddell has gone for the day
[17:26] <fabbione> hmmm just need somebody to new 4 libraries...
[17:26] <fabbione> so i can get offline too
[17:27] <kees> dholbach: jdstrand and I are on national holiday on the 1st, so how about 19.00 UTC on the 5th?
[17:28] <dholbach> kees: sounds perfect to me!
[17:28] <dholbach> kees: shall I put it on the wiki?
[17:28] <kees> dholbach: "Introduction to the Ubuntu Security Team" should be good.
[17:28] <dholbach> rock on!
[17:28] <kees> dholbach: yeah, if you've got it open for edits
[17:29] <Riddell> fabbione: hi
[17:29] <dholbach> kees: added
[17:29] <Riddell> fdoving: onto it
[17:29] <fabbione> Riddell: hey... can i bother you one last time for today?
[17:29] <Riddell> fabbione: onto it
[17:30] <fabbione> Riddell: redhat-cluster -> NEW
[17:30] <fabbione> Riddell: it's a bunch of soname changes.
[17:30] <fabbione> Riddell: nothing fancy.
[17:30] <dholbach> thanks a lot kees, thanks a lot jdstrand!
[17:30] <fabbione> Riddell: they should hit the same pockets as now.. lvm2 depends on libcman2 and libdlm2 that will be removed. the new lvm2 is Depwait already in LP
[17:30] <Riddell> fabbione: accepted
[17:30] <fabbione> Riddell: so everything should clear automagically
[17:30] <fabbione> Riddell: awesome.. thanks!
[17:31] <fabbione> ok i am off again :)
[17:32] <kees> dholbach: any time.  :)
[17:42] <slangasek> fabbione: pong?
[17:43] <slangasek> dholbach: I guess I could; can you tell me what makes an archive admin happy? :-)
[17:44] <dholbach> slangasek: making sure stuff builds, having checked licensing thoroughly, adhering to freeze dates, etc :)
[17:44] <slangasek> ScottK: is the kde from last night processed, then?  I don't see it in the queue
[17:44] <dholbach> slangasek: I thought there was a lot of stuff that made archive admins unhappy :)
[17:44] <Riddell> slangasek: yes
[17:44] <dholbach> BenC: you ROCK!
[17:45] <slangasek> dholbach: ok, so "how to avoid making the archive admins unhappy", that's easier perhaps :)
[17:45] <dholbach> :-)))
[17:45] <dholbach> there's only one slot left right now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek - would that work out for you?
[17:46] <slangasek> dholbach: ah, Monday is a US holiday
[17:46] <tseliot> dholbach: did you have the time to upload this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/envyng-core/+bug/260862
[17:46] <slangasek> dholbach: and I already have (wholly unexciting) plans for that day
[17:46] <dholbach> slangasek: argl :-(
[17:46] <dholbach> tseliot: no, I'm sorry - I subscribed bryce to the bug instead
[17:47] <tseliot> dholbach: ok, no problem ;)
[17:48] <dholbach> slangasek: would the same slot on thursday work for you? pedro_: do you think you could swap with the Monday 20 UTC one?
[17:48] <slangasek> thursday is doable for me
[17:49] <pedro_> dholbach: yup no problem
[17:49] <mdz> cjwatson: were there any issues with the server seed bits which are now landed?
[17:49] <slangasek> dholbach: is there a template of some sort that describes what kind of content I should be trying to put together?
[17:49] <dholbach> slangasek, pedro_: thanks so much - going to update the wiki
[17:49] <dholbach> slangasek: we have logs of the previous sessions if that helps: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Previous
[17:50] <cjwatson> mdz: soren reported that the menu item for minimal-system is hard to find (it's on F4 at the moment; we may move it); otherwise I haven't heard of any issues yet
[17:50] <dholbach> slangasek: a big part of the sessions will be Q&A
[17:50] <mdz> cjwatson: is it present in the current daily  builds?
[17:50] <cjwatson> mdz: yes
[17:51] <cjwatson> I haven't tested it end-to-end since it landed, trying to get oem sorted out first ...
[17:51] <slangasek> dholbach: ok.  I think I can piece something together then, thanks
[17:52] <dholbach> slangasek: you ROCK!
[17:52]  * cjwatson lights up the Keybuksignal hopefully
[17:55] <mdz> cjwatson: thanks
[18:02] <nealmcb> mdz: re posting to ubuntu-devel you say "there's a ticket open with the Canonical IS team about it (#26726)"  That doesn't seem to be a relevant launchpad or rt ticket - typo?  And does it work to post from an ubuntu.com address as suggested by https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=655
[18:02] <cjwatson> it's in the Canonical RT rather than the Ubuntu one
[18:03] <mdz> nealmcb: that's a different RT instance (where I don't seem to even have an account)
[18:03] <cjwatson> (I only just found out they were separate)
[18:03] <cjwatson> the Ubuntu one is new, I believe
[18:03] <nealmcb> oh dear....
[18:04] <fabbione> slangasek: all sorted.. thanks
[18:04] <elmo> mdz: 'ubuntu' / 'ubuntu'
[18:04] <mdz> cjwatson: there's still a Community queue on the old one...
[18:04] <nealmcb> I'm not subscribed with my ubuntu.com address, but allowing posts from @ubuntu.com would seem like a good idea
[18:04] <mdz> elmo: will this obsolete the old Community queue?
[18:04] <elmo> yes, it already has
[18:04] <cjwatson> mdz: saying "{Obsolete}" on it ...
[18:05] <nealmcb> where is the old one?  what is the community queue?
[18:05] <elmo> mdz: in 26726, did you try adding him to 'accept_these_nonmembers'?
[18:05] <elmo> mdz: i.e. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/ubuntu-devel/?VARHELP=privacy/sender/accept_these_nonmembers
[18:05] <elmo> nealmcb: the "old one", is the Canonical private RT
[18:05] <cjwatson> yes, that's the key I use I think
[18:06] <nxvl> did libcupsys2-dev has been superseded?
[18:06] <mdz> elmo: by the way, when I click on the queues on the home page, I get an empty list of tickets (used to display all non-closed tickets).  an explicit search works, though
[18:06] <nealmcb> elmo: I though you were saying ubuntu/ubuntu worked on the old one - maybe I misparsed mdz's "that"
[18:07] <mdz> elmo: most of the moderators are not list admins, so they can't change that
[18:07] <mdz> nealmcb: that (rt.ubuntu.com) is a different RT instance from the one I was referring to in my email
[18:08] <mdz> cjwatson: could you add the person referenced in the thread to that filter to address the immediate issue?
[18:09] <cjwatson> mdz: your last comment references one of your own posts
[18:09] <elmo> mdz: so you want moderators to be able to add people?  does it need to be within the mailman system?
[18:09] <geser> nxvl: yes, it was replaced with libcups2-dev and libcupsys2-dev is now a transitional package
[18:10] <nealmcb> cjwatson:   while you're at it, whitelisting me (neal@bcn.boulder.co.us == https://edge.launchpad.net/~nealmcb) would be delightful :)
[18:10] <nxvl> geser: thank you
[18:10] <mdz> cjwatson: yes, because he CCed me and his message wasn't in the archive yet
[18:10] <cjwatson> mdz: done for the one before that
[18:10] <mdz> elmo: it would be ideal if it were via the mailman system, but I think it would be workable to have something else
[18:10] <cjwatson> mdz: in the UI, it's Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> accept_these_nonmembers
[18:11] <elmo> mdz: well, I just don't fancy hacking on mailman is all - unless I'm missing some easy alternative?
[18:11] <mdz> cjwatson: I'm not at all convinced that I have the right admin password
[18:12] <mdz> elmo: moderators need to be able to whitelist people.  what are the risks of making them admins?
[18:12] <mdz> that sounds like the easiest route
[18:12] <mdz> cjwatson: thanks
[18:13] <elmo> mdz: assuming you trust the moderators to not be malicious or grossly incompetent, not much?
[18:13] <mdz> elmo: one thing we discussed before was having a LP team whose members were whitelisted, that's another option
[18:13] <elmo> mdz: sure, that's easy on my side too - I thought the concern there was asking upstreams/other distro folks to create LP accounts
[18:14] <mdz> elmo: hmm, you're right, that's not ideal
[18:26] <moquist> james_w: thx for your REVU comments; I'm catching up after a trip so I'm not sure how soon I'll get back to all that.
[18:27] <james_w> moquist: no problem, sorry to leave it so late
[18:27] <james_w> I didn't realise you were here, I only looked on -motu
[18:28] <moquist> np
[18:30] <RainCT> mdz: Hey. We've created Launchpad team ~ubuntu-dev-without-bugmail so that it can be added to other teams instead of ubuntu-dev, so that it eats the bugmail (by having a contact address set). Can you please accept the invitation of ubuntu-dev to join it?
[18:31] <RainCT> mdz: this is necessary, for example, so that MOTUs can commit to the mythbuntu branches (where some packages are maintained)
[18:31] <mdz> RainCT: done
[18:32] <RainCT> mdz: thanks!
[18:35] <mdz> elmo: if your recommended solution is to use the admin interface and accept_these_nonmembers, please put that into the ticket and close it out
[18:36] <slangasek> sbeattie: on bug #91873, you don't think there's any chance that this patch could cause us to ignore a /legitimate/ EIO?
[18:39] <sbeattie> slangasek: it's possible but I think eject already is ignoring legitimate EIO errors, as on multiple systems here, ioctl(3, CDROMEJECT, 0) returns -EIO every time on successful eject events.
[18:40] <slangasek> sbeattie: isn't CDROMEJECT the exact case that this patch addresses?
[18:40] <sbeattie> yes.
[18:41] <slangasek> then it would seem that eject wasn't ignoring those before
[18:41] <sbeattie> eject -T wasn't. eject with no arguments does.
[18:42] <slangasek> ah, ok, I see that in the other strace snippet
[18:44] <sbeattie> personally, I think both eject and the kernel are buggy here, but that eject's buggy behavior may be due to working around the kernel always returning EIO.
[18:45]  * slangasek nods
[18:49] <slangasek> kees: hmm, I thought samba also did PIE natively?
[18:50] <slangasek> ah, only if built with --enable-pie
[18:50] <slangasek> er, no
[18:51] <slangasek> it's not built with PIE because we're setting --disable-pie
[18:51] <kees> hahah
[18:51] <kees> oops
[18:51] <kees> I missed that.
[18:51] <slangasek> well, it was breaking things on the ports when upstream first turned it on
[18:51] <slangasek> so it got disabled, and never revisited
[18:51] <kees> slangasek: right, I suspect they're not correctly testing for it.
[18:52] <kees> slangasek: hardening-wrapper DTRT wrt to archs
[18:53] <kees> nice, and they've already enabled relro.
[18:56] <kees> slangasek: what do you think, should I revert the wrapper dep and go with the "native" PIE option?  it looks like they pass it down into the build correctly.
[18:56] <slangasek> kees: that would seem to simply things, yes?
[18:59] <kees> yup, let me do a rebuild, one sec
[19:02] <cjwatson> mdz: server seed isn't working right, unfortunately - I'll sort it out
[19:04] <mdz> dendrobates: ^^
[19:04] <mdz> cjwatson: thanks
[19:05] <dendrobates> mdz: ack
[19:05] <cjwatson> (it's getting offered, but not preselected)
[19:27] <nxvl> how is the Freezes thing? i can upload new features until tomorrow or until Thursday?
[19:31]  * Laney eyes mysql
[19:36] <slangasek> nxvl: through end of day on Thursday
[19:40] <mathiaz> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule -> Freezes normally happen at the start of the given date, UTC time. So last minute changes need to happen the day before.
[19:40] <mathiaz> slangasek: ^^ - has this changed ?
[19:41] <slangasek> mathiaz: oh; well, that's not what I did with FeatureFreeze last time, but we can go with what's printed there instead
[19:41] <slangasek> nxvl: in that case, through end of day on Wednesday ;)
[19:43] <superm1> slangasek, would you be able to include the nvidia drivers as installable on the DVD image?
[20:02] <jdstrand> slangasek: eek, I much preferred your first reaction. Perhaps is would be better to update the wiki?
[20:03] <jdstrand> (it certainly would be for me)
[20:03] <slangasek> superm1: "include the nvidia drivers as installable" - as opposed to what, exactly?  aren't they already there, via restricted?
[20:04] <superm1> slangasek, i dont believe they're on the DVD images as of yet for intrepid
[20:04] <jdstrand> slangasek: I'm half kidding, but the time would be most welcome
[20:04] <superm1> slangasek, but yes as installable without needing intarweb access
[20:04] <slangasek> jdstrand: giving people more time before the freeze always makes it "better" in that it lets everyone get more done, but then it takes time away from the freeze, so a line always has to be drawn somewhere...
[20:05] <superm1> slangasek, i don't believe they're explicitly listed in the seeds atm
[20:05] <jdstrand> slangasek: sure-- my point is I liked where you drew your line before :)
[20:05] <slangasek> jdstrand: what are you working on that you're worried is going to miss the freeze?
[20:05] <nxvl> slangasek: heh, no, please make it happend at the end of Thursday :P
[20:05] <slangasek> superm1: ok; which package should be seeded for this?
[20:05] <jdstrand> slangasek: an audit for landscape
[20:06] <superm1> slangasek, nvidia-glx-177, nvidia-glx-173, nvidia-glx-96, nvidia-glx-71
[20:06] <superm1> slangasek, that should get the 4 different variants
[20:06] <jdstrand> slangasek: kees and I are racing against the clock, and TBH, I thought it was end of day thursday myself
[20:06] <slangasek> jdstrand: ah.  landscape itself isn't uploaded until the audit is done?
[20:07] <jdstrand> slangasek: technically, no
[20:07] <nxvl> slangasek: or you can still say it's taking place at the end of Wen so people prepare for it, but make it happen the end of thu
[20:07] <nxvl> slangasek: and we won't say anything
[20:07] <nxvl> :P
[20:07] <slangasek> jdstrand: well, "freeze exception granted" then :P
[20:07] <jdstrand> slangasek: works for me :)
[20:08] <slangasek> nxvl: well, the "freeze at beginning of the day" is noted on the release schedule wiki page, and the freeze isn't an archive-level freeze so the timeline is always fuzzy; I don't see the justification for pushing back the freeze as a whole
[20:09] <nxvl> slangasek: yeah, i'm just kidding
[20:09] <nxvl> slangasek: you can't blame me for trying
[20:09] <nxvl> :D
[20:13] <slangasek> james_w: ping-a-ling
[20:13] <james_w> hey slangasek
[20:13] <slangasek> james_w: hi, looking over bug #261445, which dholbach pointed me at
[20:14] <james_w> slangasek: great, thanks
[20:14] <slangasek> james_w: I'm trying to think through what may or may not be a relevant corner case
[20:15] <slangasek> I've never used --fixes before, but I love it immediately; what I'm wondering is whether this patch to debcommit could do the wrong thing if the changelog entry is added in a separate commit after the actual change
[20:15] <slangasek> but then I guess one probably wouldn't use debcommit in that case...
[20:16] <james_w> slangasek: you mean that you commit the fix, and then commit the changelog entry with debcommit, which leads to --fixes putting the property on the wrong commit?
[20:16] <slangasek> james_w: basically, yeah
[20:17] <james_w> yeah, that would be not great
[20:17] <slangasek> but as I thought about it, I realized I probably wouldn't use debcommit there
[20:17] <slangasek> but wanted to get your opinion anyway :)
[20:17] <james_w> --fixes isn't precise, as bug fixes can span multiple commits etc.
[20:18] <slangasek> sure
[20:18] <slangasek> so I'm nitpicking for no reason :-)
[20:18] <james_w> you could say that the bug is fixed by the point where it is added, so it's ok, but you /could/ commit the changelog first, so that falls down
[20:18] <james_w> it's not precise, but I think it's better than nothing, and I don't think a heuristic can do any better, and heuristics is all we have with debcommit
[20:21] <slangasek> right; I was more wondering whether there was any reason one would want to have an override switch
[20:22] <james_w> possibly
[20:22] <slangasek> well - I haven't found a convincing case for it myself
[20:22] <slangasek> so I'm going to go ahead and sponsor as-is :)
[20:22] <james_w> adding a bug number to a changelog entry from long ago, but you shouldn't do that
[20:22] <james_w> great, thanks.
[20:24] <Riddell> BenC: linux has been split into lots of -modules packages?
[20:25] <slangasek> Riddell: are you looking at the d-i packages?
[20:25] <slangasek> (udebs)
[20:27] <Riddell> slangasek: oh possibly, firewire-core-modules-2.6.27-1-generic-di et al in New
[20:27] <BenC> Riddell: udeb's are for the debian-installer...has nothing to do with what's installed on your system
[20:27] <Riddell> yeah, the di should have given it away
[20:27] <BenC> So should the .udeb extension :)
[20:28] <BenC> Wait, it doesn't show that does it
[20:28] <slangasek> Riddell: we have a script kernel-overrides on drescher that facilitates mapping overrides from one kernel to the next; or if you prefer, I'm happy to process those, I just had noticed you were actively processing and didn't want to get in your way :)
[20:28] <slangasek> BenC: queue doesn't show the extension, no :)
[20:39] <nxvl> i need some help here
[20:39] <nxvl> on actually deciding what to do
[20:39] <nxvl> Bug 260899
[20:39] <nxvl> the problem is issue because of courier-authlib libs being rpathed
[20:39] <nxvl> issued*
[20:40] <nxvl> so, the solution i find is: a) still having it with the rpath to the libs
[20:40] <nxvl> b) move courier-authlib libraries to /usr/lib insted of /usr/lib/courier-authlib
[20:41] <nxvl> NCommander: what do you think?
[20:41] <NCommander> well, courier-authlib ATM is internal to courier
[20:41] <NCommander> But its packaged in a way that anyone in theory could link against it
[20:41] <nxvl> but different package and source
[20:42] <NCommander> argh
[20:42] <NCommander> I thought authlib was built through courier
[20:42] <nxvl> is not even the same source package
[20:42] <nxvl> nop
[20:42] <NCommander> whoops
[20:42] <nxvl> nop
[20:42] <NCommander> In that case, we need to dump the things in /usr/lib
[20:42] <nxvl> source package is called courier-authlib
[20:42] <NCommander> Thats the proper fix
[20:43] <NCommander> as well as properly rename the library to follow the debian policy on libraries
[20:43] <NCommander> (should be libcourier-authlib, not courier-authlib)
[20:43] <nxvl> that would break SO many thing
[20:43] <nxvl> things*
[20:43] <NCommander> There are only four or five packages depending on courier-authlib
[20:43] <NCommander> Most from courier itself
[20:44] <NCommander> (check the rdepends yourself)
[20:44] <nxvl> NCommander: i think that's is a change that is better to be done in debian
[20:44] <NCommander> Upstream is non-cooperative
[20:44] <nxvl> really?
[20:44] <NCommander> Yeah
[20:44] <nxvl> that's why i spend more time here than in debian
[20:44] <nxvl> :D
[20:44] <baastrup> hey is is posible to force a broken package to be oki?
[20:44] <NCommander> ScottK tried in the past to get fixes upstream
[20:44] <NCommander> Including the libtool fixes
[20:45] <NCommander> so the fix needs to be made here
[20:46] <nxvl> zul: something to add before i make the changes?
[20:48] <slangasek> james_w: oh, the patch pulls in Dpkg::Changelog, which wasn't previously used anywhere; do we need a depends/recommends on libparse-debianchangelog-perl?
[20:48] <slangasek> or is that not the same module?
[20:49] <nxvl> cjwatson: around?
[20:49] <slangasek> james_w: ah, no, Dpkg::Changelog is in dpkg-dev, already a dependency, so nevermind
[20:50] <cjwatson> nxvl: yes
[20:51] <nxvl> cjwatson: can you please read the recent backlog about the courier-authlib issue i have just pointed
[20:51] <nxvl> cjwatson: and give me your thoughts on the topic
[20:51] <nxvl> cjwatson: it's a small log
[20:54] <cjwatson> nxvl: my gut feel is that courier-authlib is essentially private to courier, despite being a separate package (presumably due to being distributed as a separate source package upstream). The courier-authlib-dev package is just so that other bits of courier can be built against it. This theory is supported by the package descriptions for courier-authlib and courier-authlib-dev
[20:55] <cjwatson> nxvl: so my recommendation would be to put the rpath back rather than making it a public library
[20:55] <nxvl> cjwatson: ok
[20:55] <nxvl> cjwatson: thank you for your time
[20:55] <nxvl> :D
[20:55] <cjwatson> hth :)
[20:56] <cjwatson> I'll stick that comment in the bug
[20:56] <nxvl> thank you!
[20:56] <nxvl> i will sponsor Javer's diff
[21:01] <cjwatson> the recommendation to avoid rpath is aimed at public libraries; generally speaking it's worse to make private libraries public when they weren't intended to be than to drop in an rpath
[21:02] <cjwatson> the consequence of the former approach is that you get a library in /usr/lib whose upstream isn't interested in managing its soname properly or in advertising its API properly, or things like that
[21:03] <cjwatson> we should of course be careful that dependencies are tight enough to avoid two versions of authlib ending up in the same process space if its soname ever changes
[21:44] <james_w> is anyone willing to sponsor a merge/update of devmapper and lvm2?
[21:44] <james_w> who would be best to ask for that?
[21:47] <slangasek> james_w: "ubuntu-main-sponsors"? :)
[21:47] <james_w> slangasek: if only :-)
[21:53] <slangasek> james_w: devscripts uploaded, after a bit of puzzling over why dpkg-buildpackage -b && dpkg-buildpackage -S caused desktop2menu.pl to disappear from the source package
[21:54] <slangasek> james_w: have you forwarded this patch to the Debian bug, or will you?
[21:54] <james_w> slangasek: done prior to filing the Ubuntu bug
[21:54] <slangasek> james_w: ok, great :)
[21:55] <james_w> thanks for sponsoring
[21:57] <cjwatson> _MMA_: so remind me what the situation with ubuntustudio tasks was? I seem to remember that there was some particular task you wanted preselected, while still displaying the tasks question
[21:58] <cjwatson> (background: it's now actually possible to do that in tasksel, at least once I upload this fix)
[21:58] <_MMA_> Well we have 5 tasks. The -desktop was the one we were trying to get preselected and hidden from users.
[21:58] <cjwatson> preselected *and* hidden? hmm
[21:58] <_MMA_> So in the end users would only *see* 4.
[21:58] <cjwatson> ok, slightly different kettle of fish then
[21:59] <cjwatson> can't really do that with a debconf multiselect
[21:59] <_MMA_> Well, in the end, preselected is a great step in the right direction.
[21:59] <cjwatson> do you want the CDs changed to preselect that, then?
[22:00] <_MMA_> The -desktop task, sure. That would be great. (If you're pokin' around in there)
[22:17] <james_w> slangasek: "Can't read from ../scripts/desktop2menu.pl: No such file or directory"
[22:18] <james_w> slangasek: I assume that was what you saw?
[22:18] <james_w> it only happened for me with --twice, so I assumed it would survive the buildds
[22:19] <soren> cjwatson: Have you heard of issues like this before: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/248096
[22:20] <soren> cjwatson: (people naming their volume groups in such a way that device nodes go missing)
[22:22] <doggymenz> why ubuntu use usplash instead of bootsplash?
[22:22] <doggymenz> bootsplash already existed, it had many feature and was stable
[22:22] <doggymenz> why ubuntu had todo usplash instead? its not good
[22:33] <RainCT> doggymenz: because bootsplash works in the kernel level, and usplash in userspace (or at least that's what Wikipedia says)
[22:35] <doggymenz> oh okie
[22:35] <doggymenz> im not sure usplash is stable
[22:36] <wgrant> How do you define "stable"?
[22:36] <doggymenz> i add vga=795 or something, to kernel parameter, then i loose my terminals, and usplash can look strange, like get 2 progressbars
[22:37] <doggymenz> and it lacks functionality, you cant press escape to see boot messages
[22:37] <RAOF> Because intrepid's uvesafb is currently broken, yes.
[22:37] <doggymenz> oh
[22:37] <doggymenz> when its fixed?
[22:37] <RAOF> When it gets fixed.  I don't know.
[22:37] <RainCT> doggymenz: I think you can see the messages pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1
[22:38] <doggymenz> oh
[22:38] <doggymenz> intrepid will have 2.6.27?
[22:39] <wgrant> Does.
[22:39] <doggymenz> awesome
[22:39] <doggymenz> mine only has 2.6.26
[22:39] <wgrant> Some of the binaries are in NEW>
[22:39] <doggymenz> i dont know what is NEW<
[22:39] <wgrant> It's the queue where new packages sit.
[22:40] <doggymenz> oh
[22:44] <slangasek> james_w: er, heh; I didn't try rebuilding again after the first build test
[22:44] <NCommander> cjwatson, out of curosity, is there a reason there are no Xubuntu Ports CD images made?
[22:44] <slangasek> james_w: let me fix up the references to desktop2menu.pl, then
[22:44] <james_w> slangasek: it failed on the buildds
[22:45] <slangasek> james_w: yep, it fails here too if I try another rebuild
[22:45] <NCommander> RAOF, confirming a binary rebuild fixes miro
[22:45] <slangasek> I'll have it fixed up soon enough
[22:45] <cjwatson> NCommander: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ is the place to look
[22:45] <james_w> slangasek: it appears as though "remove desktop2menu.pl in Ubuntu" translates to "remove it in the clean rule and hope for the best"
[22:45] <slangasek> james_w: in the build rule, oddly
[22:45] <james_w> though that may be a bit unfair
[22:45] <slangasek> s/build/install/
[22:46] <NCommander> cjwatson, it appears the PowerPC CDs aren't even attempted
[22:46] <RAOF> NCommander: Thanks.  I suppose I get to prepare a SRU.
[22:46] <james_w> slangasek: oh yeah
[22:46] <james_w> slangasek: surely it should just delete the installed copy?
[22:46] <slangasek> james_w: that would have made more sense, yes :)
[22:46] <NCommander> (I looked at at the the debian-cd source, and I couldn't figure out how the distribution/ports of distribution thing works out)
[22:48] <Zetto> Someone please take a look at Bug 144745
[22:48] <NCommander> RAOF, I can do the SRU if you want
[22:48] <james_w> slangasek: sorry for not fixing it up when I saw it
[22:49] <RAOF> NCommander: That'd be cool.  Thanks.
[22:50] <qwerty6523> hello
[22:50] <NCommander> RAOF, if I give you a debdiff, will you upload to Hardy proposed?
[22:50] <RAOF> NCommander: I need to check the SRU documentation first :)
[22:51] <Zetto> bug 144745 - Two modules aren't loaded in the right order
[22:51] <slangasek> james_w: ah, leaving desktop2menu.pl in place causes build failures because of some wildcard rules in scripts/Makefile; I'll just yank the whole thing out
[22:51] <NCommander> Well, you upload the proposed fix (in this case, just a changelog entry), file the bug, and then subscribe Main SRU
[22:51] <cjwatson> NCommander: they are, but there's a nasty little problem with the way the local mirror on the build machine is laid out
[22:51] <RAOF> Yeah, that was my understanding.
[22:52] <cjwatson> soren: I hadn't heard of issues like that before. I suppose we could blacklist certain VG names in partman-lvm
[22:52] <RAOF> NCommander: Oh, seems like asac's been assigned to that bug.
[22:53] <NCommander> I'll add my two cents
[22:53] <RAOF> And the debdiff; why not :)
[22:53] <asac> RAOF: is this about the gnome-python breakage?
[22:53] <RAOF> Since gnome-python-extras is in main I can't upload for you anyway :)
[22:54] <RAOF> Yeah.
[22:54] <RAOF> Just checking that a rebuild fixes it, and it does.
[22:54] <asac> RAOF: how do you reproduce that in hardy?
[22:54] <asac> RAOF: is that just PPC?
[22:54] <RAOF> asac: By asking NCommander to fire up his PPC box, and try to start miro
[22:54] <asac> NCommander: did it actually ever work?
[22:54] <NCommander> Yeah
[22:54] <NCommander> Took forever to build
[22:55] <asac> when?
[22:55] <RAOF> Yeah, just PPC as far as I can tell.
[22:55] <NCommander> Just now
[22:55] <asac> NCommander: no
[22:55] <NCommander> Like 20 minutes ago
[22:55] <asac> NCommander: i mean: did miro ever work in hardy?
[22:55] <NCommander> I never used it before
[22:55] <NCommander> What I did was
[22:55] <NCommander> Install miro
[22:55] <asac> this bug appears to predate hardy release ... thats why i am wondering if this is a regression or just slipped through release QAY
[22:55] <NCommander> Confirmed it didn't work
[22:55] <asac> NCommander: ok
[22:55] <NCommander> I can check dapper if miro existed back then
[22:55] <asac> NCommander: can you downgrade to the hardy xulrunner-1.9 version?
[22:56] <asac> NCommander: i think its 1.9~b5 something
[22:56] <NCommander> Link me to the deb
[22:57] <soren> cjwatson: Ok. I still want to get Keybuk's input, though. Maybe there's clever udev magic that work around it somehow.
[22:57] <asac> NCommander: sudo apt-get install xulrunner-1.9=1.9~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support=1.9~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu3
[22:57] <asac> NCommander: maybe you need to downgrade some other apps in the same move
[22:57] <NCommander> Bah
[22:57] <asac> or remove them (to test)
[22:58] <NCommander> I think I need to remove GNOME to test this
[23:00] <NCommander> asac downgrading
[23:00] <Zetto> Hi all, bug 144745 can easily be solved incluing a mudule in '/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist'
[23:04] <asac> NCommander: ok. so its not a regression. thanks for testing. I am subscribed to it, so Ill get to it asap
[23:04] <NCommander> I posted the changelog entry
[23:04] <NCommander> (you can take credit for it if you want)
[23:04] <asac> he?
[23:04] <asac> ah
[23:04] <NCommander> asac, its a no-changes binary rebuild
[23:04] <asac> ok
[23:05] <NCommander> You shouldn't have any issues getting that approved
[23:06] <NCommander> asac, I'm willing to take over dealing with the SRU bit, unless you want it
[23:07] <asac> NCommander: can you upload?
[23:08] <NCommander> asac, not an MOTU
[23:08] <NCommander> sadly
[23:08] <NCommander> I can post the source package to my PPA
[23:08] <NCommander> Then you just need to grab it and resign (I'll set the changelog to hardy-proposed)
[23:08] <asac> ok. ill do that then. you can then take care for organising testing/feedback in bug and getting verification
[23:09] <asac> NCommander: if its just a respin, then you dont need to
[23:09] <NCommander> Sure, no problem
[23:09] <NCommander> SHould I reassign to myself?
[23:12] <weed37> evening
[23:14] <sbeattie> NCommander: if you've got a ppc box available and some free time, it'd be great if you could verify the SRU fix for 220890
[23:15]  * NCommander takes a look
[23:15] <NCommander> Launchpad #220890
[23:15] <NCommander> lazyness rocks
[23:16] <NCommander> sbeattie, what's the GNOME metapackage? (I did a -server install, since I was using it as a server, but this box has been retired so ...)
[23:17] <RainCT> NCommander: ubuntu-desktop?
[23:17] <NCommander> I should have known that
[23:18] <NCommander> sbeattie, ok, checking. As an aside, what's the issue with this and PPAs slangasek referred to
[23:19] <james_w> dear archive admins, will there be a sync run prior to feature freeze?
[23:20] <RainCT> james_w: sorry for the wait. I've just advocated wadllib, and will test-build launchpadlib now
[23:20] <james_w> RainCT: thanks, don't worry about the wait
[23:20] <james_w> as long as it's less than 24 hours :-)
[23:20] <sbeattie> NCommander: I think PPAs don't support building for ppc anymore, so test python-apt packages couldn't be built and sitributed for ppc via that channel.
[23:21] <sbeattie> s/sitributed/distributed/
[23:22] <NCommander> A pity that was dropped
[23:22] <RAOF> PPAs never supported building for PPC, at least that I can remember.  The xen infrastructure the PPA builders use only works on x86, IIRC.
[23:23] <NCommander> I wish they'd just extend PowerPC/SPARC PPAs. They could use QEMU ;-)
[23:23] <elmo> NCommander: no, we couldn't.  qemu doesn' tprovide secure sandboxing
[23:24] <elmo> it also has serious limitations as a buildd (e.g. a 256Mb memory limit)
[23:24] <elmo> raof's right, we've never supported anything other than x8 based architectures because that's all that Xen supports
[23:25] <NCommander> elmo, QEMU supports up to 1024, I ran a hurd buildd in it
[23:26] <elmo> hmm? ok, maybe that's only on arm then
[23:26] <ion_> Why an arbitrary memory limit?
[23:26] <NCommander> elmo, I take it a process barrier isn't strong enough protection?
[23:27] <RAOF> Couldn't you run qemu in a xen sandbox? :)
[23:27] <NCommander> (it won't be impossible for someone to break into a Xen buildd if a dom0 expilot in the hypervisor was ever found)
[23:27]  * NCommander has a powerpc buildd running against his PPA :-))
[23:27] <elmo> NCommander: PPA builds allow you to intall your own packages, so, no it's not
[23:29] <NCommander> If I understand PPAs correctly, the xen based environment works with a snapshot, and after each build, resets it, right?
[23:29] <NCommander> (and Xen PowerPC does exist now)
[23:29] <elmo> Xen 'exists' for a number of different platforms
[23:30] <elmo> it's only usable in production for x86
[23:30] <elmo> NCommander: yes
[23:31] <cjwatson> james_w: you mean like an autosync? those stopped at debian import freeze
[23:31] <NCommander> I guess I'm slow then on why QEMU won't be acceptable (even if you put it in a Xen image),
[23:31] <NCommander> Since QEMU can be snapshotted
[23:31] <NCommander> (is that even a word ;-)
[23:31] <NCommander> sbeattie, my PPC box is installing GNOME< but it might take awhile. its not that fast
[23:31] <james_w> cjwatson: no, running over all of the outstanding sync requests.
[23:32] <elmo> NCommander: because as I said, qemu does not provide secure sandboxing
[23:32] <cjwatson> oh, right. I should think so but probably won't be the guy in the chair myself ...
[23:32] <elmo> NCommander: upstream are on record are saying security is not and never has been one of their concerns
[23:32] <NCommander> elmo, I just said put qemu in an Xen domU. I dunno, doesn't that solve that issue?
[23:32] <sbeattie> NCommander: no worries, your help is appreciated!
[23:32] <elmo> oh, I see what you mean
[23:32] <NCommander> yeah
[23:33] <james_w> cjwatson: ok, thanks. I'm assuming there will be, but if it was a no then I would have to change my approach.
[23:33] <NCommander> Even if qemu gets hacked, the xen image provides an affective barrier
[23:33] <NCommander> And then its a modification to the build-worker to make sure the xen image gets reset after each build
[23:33] <elmo> NCommander: *shrug* that'd be viable, but slow.  qemu on the fastes x86 is still slower than e.g. modern arm hardware
[23:34] <NCommander> well, userland emulation pretty fast, my laptop can slaughter my 1Ghz PowerpC
[23:34] <cjwatson> james_w: prior practice has been that there is, at any rate
[23:35] <james_w> thanks, good to know
[23:35] <NCommander> elmo, then again, I'm an m68k Debian porter, so my concept of slow and yours are in two very different worlds
[23:38] <Darklock> haha
[23:39]  * cjwatson seems to recall that elmo is not entirely without m68k experience
[23:40] <NCommander> Sometimes I dream at night of bootstrapping Ubuntu m68k
[23:41] <NCommander> THen I wonder why I have no social life
[23:41] <NCommander> hell, I've bootstrapped armel Ubuntu
[23:42] <NCommander> (mostly, I finished building about half of the base packages once I canadianed crossed the compiler)
[23:42] <jdstrand> NCommander, elmo: I think the situation is improving wrt to qemu and security do to other developers, and I seem to remember the kvm folks at least saying they are interested
[23:42] <jdstrand> s/do/due/
[23:42] <NCommander> jdstrand, well, couldn't we just plop Qemu in Xen
[23:42] <NCommander> It can't be any less secure then the current PPA setup
[23:42] <slangasek> cjwatson: the difference being that elmo wised up several years ago? ;)
[23:43] <NCommander> slangasek, without m68k, I'd never gotten a chance to run a dak setup or britney
[23:43] <jdstrand> NCommander: I didn't say it *was* secure yet, just improving. besides, I thought xen had a ton of qemu code anyway
[23:43] <NCommander> Now if thats a good or bad thing, thats anyones guess ;-)
[23:47] <NCommander> slangasek, I dunno, we've proven its possible to run java and KDE on m68k
[23:47] <NCommander> Our buildd cluster is close to the speed of a quad-core x86 :-)
[23:48] <cjwatson> StevenK: what's antimony:/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin.copy/ and can it die?
[23:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: a fine demonstration of the difference between bandwidth and latency :-)
[23:49] <slangasek> NCommander: I've called for phasing out the Debian alpha port because I think we're beyond the point of diminishing returns wrt to keeping it afloat; I'm probably not the person to try to impress with tales of running KDE on m68k
[23:49] <NCommander> slangasek, we only build it because we have it, no one in their right mind uses it
[23:49] <cjwatson> I suppose the difference is that an m68k requires fewer electrical substations to keep it running
[23:50] <NCommander> (although as a joke, I think someone tried to run it, it took roughly an hour to get to the desktop)
[23:50] <NCommander> That, and coldfire will be coming out soon, we're waiting on freescale to help with the toolchain
[23:50] <cjwatson> is this like Duke Nukem Forever?
[23:51] <NCommander> m68k - proving that glibc 2.5 just can't die yet
[23:52] <NCommander> slangasek, w.r.t. to Alpha, I feel if we simply axe the requirement that all packages must be built, it would be quite feasible to keep
[23:53] <NCommander> As it stands, now that the FTP masters are offically axing ports
[23:53] <NCommander> m68k and hurd just got axed
[23:54] <slangasek> cjwatson: my Alpha runs on a single ATX power supply, thanks :)
[23:54] <NCommander> I expect mips(el) and hppa might end up going too, they've beening having a lot of buildd issues recently
[23:54]  * NCommander wishes he had an alpha
[23:54] <NCommander> slangasek, know where one can get one relatively cheaply?
[23:54] <slangasek> cjwatson: but it's still dissipates more heat than any other machine in the house, and I use it for nothing - I want it off
[23:54] <slangasek> NCommander: Germany, apparently
[23:54] <slangasek> otherwise, eBay
[23:54] <NCommander> slangasek, what are you using it for?
[23:55] <slangasek> building d-i daily images
[23:55] <slangasek> and porting work when needed
[23:55] <slangasek> so it's entirely for others' benefit, not for my own
[23:55] <NCommander> You could just replace it with a qemu instance ;-)
[23:55] <slangasek> I'll sit here and wait while you get qemu working for alpha, shall I
[23:56] <NCommander> hrm
[23:56] <NCommander> It's still dev-only
[23:56] <NCommander> n/m ;-)
[23:58] <NCommander> slangasek, you have the only dev machine for alpha thats open for DDs?
[23:59] <slangasek> no, my alpha isn't open for DDs.
[23:59] <NCommander> slangasek, it sounds like the alpha port though in general having issues, which kinda suprises me, hppa's been dead from HP for longer than alpha, and its still kicking