[16:20] <qense> hello
[16:40] <tpfennig> hi all. is this the right place to talk about https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ ?
[16:41] <newz2000> tpfennig: probably not
[16:41] <newz2000> that site is run by the ubuntu doc team
[16:41] <tpfennig> ok so what channel would that be?
[16:42] <newz2000> #ubuntu-doc
[16:42] <tpfennig> newz2000: thanks
[16:47] <tpfennig> newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryMarketing also #ubuntu-doc?
[16:48] <newz2000> tpfennig: no, unfortunately that's the Ubuntu Marketing Team
[16:48] <tpfennig> well about categories in this wiki
[16:49] <tpfennig> I found this and I guess more dont work due to moin wini syntax changes
[16:49] <tpfennig> like <<FullSearch>> does not give a list of pages any more
[16:49] <tpfennig> one has to enter the name of the category in ().
[16:50] <Volans> Hi newz2000 :) any news on the Start Page topic and the Mozilla/Canonical legal stuff?
[16:50] <tpfennig> and using FullSearchCached helps getting cpu usage down
[16:52] <emunkki> hi Volans
[16:52] <Volans> Hi emunkki
[16:52]  * tpfennig thinks Ubunut now has way too many irc channels....
[16:53] <newz2000> Volans: no, not yet
[16:55] <Volans> ok, so the intrepid start page will be the same of hardy?
[16:59] <newz2000> no word yet :-(
[17:01] <Volans> ah... because in this case I think that we can concentrate our efforts to the "automatization" of the translation of the start page using .po files on launchpad (knowing also if the right column should be translated or not)
[17:23] <newz2000> Volans: I'm up for that, that will be useful regardless of what we end up doing
[17:23] <newz2000> I've got to run an errand, will be back in about an hour
[17:23] <Volans> ok
[18:21] <jarlen> hey
[18:21] <jarlen> meeting tonight, right?
[18:25] <qense> yes
[18:37] <jarlen> nice
[19:18] <jarlen> wasn't the meeting now?
[19:18] <qense> It's an hour later at 19 UTC
[19:18] <qense> Or 21:00 CEST with DST
[19:30]  * Volans going out for dinner
[19:50] <Diptanu> Hi
[19:50] <nand> hi!
[19:50] <jarlen> hey
[19:51] <Diptanu> How is everyone doing
[19:51] <jarlen> fine, eating dinner
[19:52] <Diptanu> I have a query...I am trying to decide which version of fedora(7/8) to deploy on a server..
[19:52] <Diptanu> Have any thought..
[19:52] <Diptanu> I have freebsd as an option too..
[19:53] <jarlen> what about debian/ubuntu?
[19:53] <Diptanu> I dont have much idea...about how ubuntu does on servers
[19:54] <Diptanu> I know it works really good on desktops..
[19:55] <jarlen> I dunno much about it, either
[19:55] <Diptanu> ok
[19:55] <Diptanu> Thanks..
[19:55] <jarlen> I thinks Ubuntu is fine for server, but Debian is like a stable version of Ubuntu server
[19:55] <Diptanu> I will try to dig into it ..
[19:55] <Diptanu> i see
[19:55] <jarlen> but that's mostly from word of mouth, I havn't had much experience
[19:55] <Diptanu> ok
[19:56] <jarlen> though my Debian server is going with no trouble whatsoever
[19:58] <qense> meeting in two minutes!
[19:59] <qense> 1
[20:00] <qense> It's time to start our meeting about the Ubuntu Wanted 'project'
[20:01] <qense> I'm curious, who here is interested in helping out?
[20:01] <nand> hay!
[20:01] <qense> hello
[20:02] <jarlen> hey
[20:02] <jarlen> I'd be interested in helping out
[20:02] <nand> l;
[20:02] <qense> nice
[20:03] <nand> ok, time to introduce ourselves then
[20:03] <qense> good idea
[20:03] <qense> Shall I start?
[20:03] <nand> please start
[20:03] <qense> ok
[20:04] <qense> My real name is Sense Hofstede. Currently I'm 15 years old. I'm the one that suggested this whole idea.
[20:05] <qense> Programming langauges I know are PHP, a tiny bit of Python and the basics of C#, although we won't need to last two.
[20:05] <nand> My name is Nicolas, I'm the ubuntu brainstorm developer, and I'm willing to put the necessary infrastructure to kickstart that project
[20:05] <nand> jarlen?
[20:06] <jarlen> I'm Jesper, student. I got various programming experience in PHP, Java and Python I'd like to help out with
[20:07] <qense> it seems that we're the only three here
[20:07] <nand> ok, time to introduce the project now
[20:08] <nand> seems so
[20:08] <qense> The idea was to create a website were people within the Ubuntu Community can place vacant jobs/roles/tasks withing their teams and people looking for something to do can look for something to do.
[20:09] <qense> During the discussion at the ubuntu-website list someone also suggested to add a volunteer pool, but we don't have many people so it's not very smart to start big.
[20:10] <Ekushey> qense, do you mean a community-run site?
[20:10] <nand> This will be indeed a community run website
[20:11] <qense> yes
[20:11] <nand> meaning the coding will be done by volunteers, and the hosting will be provided by the community too.
[20:11] <Ekushey> oh ok, sounds good to me
[20:11] <Ekushey> have you decided on the name of the site?
[20:11] <Diptanu> How does the community provide the hosting..
[20:12] <nand> Diptanu: I will provide the hosting
[20:12] <Diptanu> Ok
[20:12] <nand> http://ubuntu-wanted-devel.ideatorrent.org/ for the testing site
[20:12] <Ekushey> we can use a CMS for that, no need to reinvent the wheel
[20:12] <qense> We're using Drupal5.
[20:12]  * Ekushey checks
[20:12] <nand> We have not yet discussed of the current state of the project
[20:13] <Ekushey> qense, i can help, count me in!
[20:13] <qense> nice!
[20:13] <nand> the project is already started a bit
[20:13] <nand> A basic drupal module has been set up
[20:14] <nand> The code is available here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wanted-dev/ubuntu-wanted/devel
[20:14] <qense> currently it displays jobs that are in the database, but it's just text, title and date
[20:14] <nand> Anyone can commit as long as he join the https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wanted-dev team
[20:14] <qense> the See all the details >> link is not working yet
[20:15] <nand> For now, it's a pretty basic setup
[20:15] <qense> The idea is to allow everyone with an account to post, but it has to be accepted by the crew.
[20:15] <Ekushey> nand, ah, looks good
[20:16] <qense> What we need to do now is to decide what futures the first version of the website is going to contain and who is going to do what.
[20:16]  * nand is looking for the installation instructions
[20:17] <qense> The were in a mail
[20:17] <nand> Ok, installation instructions to install and work on the website locally is here: https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/private/ubuntu-website/2008-August/000303.html
[20:17] <Diptanu> I got disconnected..Can anyone paste me the previous conversations
[20:18] <nand> anyone has a question about installation, setting up?
 What we need to do now is to decide what futures the first version of the website is going to contain and who is going to do what.
[20:18] <qense> * nand is looking for the installation instructions
 The were in a mail
[20:18] <nand> Diptanu: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/26/%23ubuntu-website.html
[20:18] <Diptanu> Thank you
[20:18] <nand> anyone has a question about installation, setting up?
[20:19] <qense> We could try to reuse the quarentaine section of IdeaTorrent
[20:19] <qense> for the new jobs
[20:19] <nand> qense: it's not that easy to pick code from brainstorm
[20:20] <qense> ok
[20:20] <nand> Ok, so here is a list of some available tasks:
[20:20] <Ekushey> i'll join you guys later, i hope to contribute on this project... time for me to sleep now (1:23 in the morning here!)
[20:21] <nand> - Extend the WantedJobList model : loading data should also fetch the user name author, and the
[20:21] <nand> list of skills. (Simple)
[20:21] <Ekushey> goodbye, my friends
[20:21] <nand> gbye!
[20:21] <qense> bye
[20:21] <nand> - Edit the default_item_v2.php template
[20:21] <nand> (which is the template used to display one single wanted job in a list
[20:21] <nand> of wanted job) to display more info, such as the lenght of the job
[20:21] <nand> (lengthtypeid, lengthvalueid, lengthintervalid field), the status
[20:21] <nand> (New/deleted/Already taken).
[20:21] <Diptanu> 12:50 here !
[20:21] <Diptanu> good night
[20:21] <nand> - Design the individual page of a single wanted job. Also design the form who will allow a user to contact the
[20:21] <nand> poster, in case of an formal application process (and later, after the website is up, we could add a application management page).
[20:21] <nand> - Put some admin function links (e.g. for the poster and admins, the possibility to set the job as "taken").
[20:21] <nand> - Design the job submission page
[20:22] <nand> anyone interested in picking one of these tasks?
[20:23] <emunkki> nand, if i have spare time, i can throw in some suggestions
[20:23] <nand> emunkki: please do
[20:23] <Diptanu> I can do the job submissions page
[20:23] <nand> Diptanu: great!
[20:23] <qense> I can do the page for a single job
[20:24] <nand> Diptanu: any question on the code? have you looked at it yet?
[20:25] <qense> I think I can also extend the defailt_item_v2.php template
[20:25] <nand> great
[20:26] <Diptanu> No i havent
[20:26] <Diptanu> I am trying to..
[20:26] <Diptanu> Can you paste the link again
[20:26] <nand> for every people interested : please apply to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wanted-dev !
[20:26] <nand> you will need this to be able to commit on the repository
[20:27] <Diptanu> ok
[20:27] <nand> And don't forget : installation instructions to work locally here: https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/private/ubuntu-website/2008-August/000303.html
[20:28] <nand> no more questions?
[20:28] <qense> I think we should make this channel one of the default channels so we can easily communicate
[20:28] <Diptanu> How do i checkout the code from the repository
[20:29] <qense> jarlen: are you still with us?
[20:29] <nand> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wanted-dev/ubuntu-wanted/devel  => Get this branch:  	 bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-wanted-dev/ubuntu-wanted/devel
[20:29] <jarlen> yeh
[20:29] <jarlen> I'm not much of a designer though
[20:30] <qense> The only thing left on the tasks list are the admin functions.
[20:30] <nand> jarlen: wanna pick one task? Not all of them need to be a designer. You can even make and commit ugly interfaces, then others can improve them :)
[20:30] <qense> Would you like to do that?
[20:30] <nand> could be an interesting one indeed!
[20:31] <jarlen> I can look into that, sure
[20:31] <qense> great
[20:31] <qense> now we've divided all tasks
[20:31] <qense> One question though, the job submission should go to an email address?
[20:31] <qense> Which address?
[20:32] <nand> job submission shoud go to an email?
[20:32] <nand> you mean a job application?
[20:32] <qense> yes
[20:32] <qense> oops
[20:32] <nand> it should go to the poster email (which is registered in the drupal tables)
[20:32] <qense> The post should tell us when the job is taken, so we can mark it as taken.
[20:33] <nand> yep. That will be a admin function : mark the job as taken
[20:33] <qense> We should set up an maillist for things like that when we go live.
[20:33] <nand> To everybody: please carefully read the SQL table doc on the wanted.info file
[20:33] <Diptanu> That kinda boosts me
[20:35] <qense> OK, is there anything else that needs to be discussed?
[20:35] <vbabiy> newz20001: Hey you around?
[20:35] <newz20001> hey
[20:35] <vbabiy> how was you vac?
[20:36] <nand> ok. Then let's meet next week to see how things have gone
[20:36] <nand> is 21 UTC ok for everyone ?
[20:36] <nand> uh, 19 UTC
[20:36] <newz2000> vbabiy: good, though there wasn't one day without someone being sick. :-/
[20:36] <Diptanu> fine with me
[20:36] <qense> fine with me
[20:37] <qense> OK, well everyone good luck with your tasks
[20:37] <vbabiy> newz2000: ouch :(
[20:37] <newz2000> it's good to be back. :-)
[20:37] <qense> Who is going to tell Ekushey?
[20:37] <nand> Great. Meanwhile, I'll be here during the week for any question concerning the code or installation instructions
[20:37] <Diptanu> newz2000: Ur back.. :)
[20:37] <Diptanu> nand: whats your emaail id?
[20:37] <nand> qense: you should make another mail on the list!
[20:38] <qense> good idea
[20:38] <nand> Diptanu: ndeschildre@ ubuntu
[20:38] <qense> I hope some more people are going to show up, maybe madsrh can make it then too.
[20:38] <Diptanu> nand: ok
[20:38] <vbabiy> newz2000: I haven't had time to revise the design do you want to go over it one more time, and refresh my memory :)
[20:38] <Diptanu> It would be great fo someone posts the minutes of todays meeting on the mailing list
[20:39] <newz2000> vbabiy: sure, let me refresh mine too, give me just a min
[20:39] <vbabiy> newz2000: sounds good just ping me when u are ready
[20:39] <qense> I can send an email tomorrow with details about this and the upcoming meeting.
[20:39] <nand> qense: thanks. Please attach who is doing what
[20:40] <Diptanu> qense That wud be great
[20:40] <qense> ok
[20:40] <qense> goodbye for now!
[20:40] <qense> thanks for your attendance
[20:40] <qense> bye
[20:40] <nand> see ya!
[20:45] <newz2000> vbabiy: I've got a summary of our previous conversation, I'll paste it in, lets hope I don't get kicked for flooding...
[20:45] <newz2000> Using your mockup as a point of reference: http://vbabiy.mine.nu:8080/
[20:45] <newz2000> I think you've done a good thing by getting rid of the header image at the top, I think you can also get rid of search. that allows you to get a lot of visuals in above the fold
[20:45] <newz2000> I could imagine us doing a layout this wide (as wide as your mockup from two weeks ago) like you've done that won't need a detail page
[20:45] <newz2000> http://digitarald.de/playground/fly-over-background/ - notice the smooth animation
[20:45] <newz2000> picture this - no up down diagnol stuff, just left/right - images are laid out side by side with a small gap between then, kind of like a filmstrip
[20:45] <newz2000> but it doesn't need to actually look like a filmstrip
[20:45] <newz2000> so when you click the "next" arrow, the image slides in from the right, underneath your gray box. the contents of the grey box would then change to match whatever the current image is (i.e. it would describe the current image)
[20:46] <newz2000> in the top right where the nav was there should be a link to the download page - do leave room somewhere prominent for the download button
[20:47] <vbabiy> newz2000: didn't we talk about the User stories also?
[20:47] <vbabiy> because all that has to be implemented in code, but we said we wont go in to code till the design is final
[20:47] <newz2000> I don't remember that
[20:48] <vbabiy> newz2000: hmm, maybe I made it up
[20:48] <newz2000> though I do remember the part about creating a mock-up before doing code
[20:49] <vbabiy> okay, what do you mean by mockup -- CSS and XHTML or what I have
[20:49] <newz2000> graphical
[20:50] <vbabiy> newz2000: so is once the download image is in there we are final with the mockup?
[20:51] <newz2000> I'd like to see it incorporate the "filmstrip" look and a nice big screenshot with next/prev buttons
[20:51] <newz2000> and finding a diff way to do the left hand nav that doesn't take up so much space
[20:51] <newz2000> maybe moving it down below
[20:53] <jarlen> hm, just getting to know bzr :P
[20:54] <nand> jarlen: any question, just ask :)
[20:54] <Diptanu> same here. never used bzr before
[20:55] <nand> the basic commands are:
[20:55] <jarlen> I think I got it
[20:55] <nand> bzr branch to get the code for the first time
[20:55] <jarlen> found a guide :) http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[20:55] <nand> then when you want to commit, do a bzr pull, bzr commit, bzr push
[20:55] <vbabiy> newz2000: what do you mean by filmstrip look?
[20:56] <nand> (bzr pull to retrieve the changes of others, bzr commit to record your changes, bzr push to put your commit on Launchpad)
[20:56] <newz2000> vbabiy: give me a sec, I'll draw it...
[20:56] <jarlen> it requires postgresql? :S
[20:57] <nand> jarlen: is that a problem?
[20:57] <nand> I often see people feeling bad about it, I don't know why
[20:57] <jarlen> nah, I was just hoping to be able to run it on my webhost
[20:57] <jarlen> but it only has mysql
[20:57] <nand> It's as simple as mysql, plus it has an easier admin interface GUI (pgadmin3)
[20:57] <nand> okay
[21:03] <Diptanu> Do i need to have a launchpad id to checkout the code
[21:03] <Diptanu> It doesnt hav any anonymous user mode?
[21:04] <Diptanu> I got it
[21:06] <newz2000> vbabiy: http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/feature-tour-wireframe.png
[21:07] <newz2000> I know, its rough
[21:08] <newz2000> but note that screenshots tile side by side so you can sort of see the next one
[21:08] <newz2000> that's what I mean by filmstrip
[21:08] <newz2000> then hitting next causes it to slide in from the right, using the smooth animation we saw in the flyby example linked above
[21:09] <newz2000> as (or after) the image slides in, the "applications" box changes to describe the current screenshot
[21:10] <vbabiy> newz2000: looking at it now
[21:19] <vbabiy> newz2000: do you really think have such a huge portion of the screen be animated will run well in the browser?
[21:19] <newz2000> vbabiy: yeah, I think so
[21:20] <newz2000> it may take some clever work but I'm not worried about it
[21:20] <vbabiy> newz2000: I have done some animation in the browser and if it gets to large or to much it gets choppy
[21:20] <newz2000> there are some tricks...
[21:21] <newz2000> for example, google maps uses tiling to create an inifinitely large map that is animated
[21:21] <newz2000> we could do the same
[21:22] <vbabiy> newz2000: how would tiling help with animation. Tiling helps for loading.
[21:22] <newz2000> I'm assuming it helps by keeping the total filesize down relative to image quality
[21:24] <newz2000> vbabiy: my point is there are lots of tricks we can use so I'm not worried about performance *yet*
[21:24] <vbabiy> newz2000: I can try putting a mockup together with this idea
[21:24] <newz2000> if you don't mind, I'd like to see it
[21:25] <vbabiy> newz2000: of course I will try to do one to night, see how it comes out
[21:25] <newz2000> I think we can make this look very pretty, and add some, "ooh" and "ahh" to the feature tour
[21:25] <vbabiy> newz2000: are going to have to support IE 6
[21:25] <newz2000> yes
[21:26] <newz2000> :-(
[21:26] <vbabiy> damn..
[21:26] <Diptanu> news2000: just out of curiosity how many of the users still hit the site with IE 6 ?
[21:27] <newz2000> Diptanu: under 15%
[21:27] <vbabiy> I just wish everyone dropped IE 6 and that would force people to upgrade
[21:27] <Diptanu> Not surprising
[21:27] <newz2000> lots of corporate people have standardized on IE6 and are slow to upgrade
[21:28] <Diptanu> John resig has releases a test suite for Javascript
[21:28] <Diptanu> They ran well on FF as well as on safari
[21:28] <Diptanu> the moment i tried to put the tests on IE
[21:28] <Diptanu> Believe me. it crashed
[21:28] <Diptanu> :)
[21:29] <vbabiy> IE 6 is the biggest time waister in web Dev.
[21:29] <Diptanu> vbabiy absolutely right
[21:29] <newz2000> well, to be fair, it was the best thing in the world when it came out. :-)
[21:29] <newz2000> but I do wish it would go away
[21:30] <Diptanu> Ya...and brought with it, the burst of the dot com era as well as netscape
[21:30] <Diptanu> :P
[21:31] <vbabiy> Diptanu: :)
[21:34] <vbabiy> newz2000: if you click on news letter, this animation is even slow in IE6 http://vbabiy.mine.nu:9090/EuroLoads/home.seam
[21:35] <newz2000> they're using scriptaculous
[21:36] <newz2000> but it was acceptable speed to me
[21:36] <vbabiy> newz2000: they is me :)
[21:36] <newz2000> oops
[21:36] <newz2000> :-)
[21:36] <newz2000> vbabiy: try this one: http://digitarald.de/playground/fly-over-background/
[21:37] <vbabiy> newz2000: but it still has some fixing to do.
[21:37] <vbabiy> yeah, I think we should try it and see how it goes
[21:38] <Diptanu> I think the accordion isnt smooth..
[21:38] <Diptanu> I meant the animation on the accordion
[21:45] <Diptanu> Good Night everyone
[21:51] <mdke> newz2000: still around?
[21:52] <newz2000> mdke: yep
[21:52] <mdke> newz2000: yay. You know the logo at the top of the website? how would one go about trying to get one with "Documentation" added to it?
[21:52] <mdke> my wiki theme is coming along nicely
[21:53] <newz2000> I can do it for you, just a sec
[21:53]  * mdke hugs
[21:56] <vbabiy> newz2000: http://www.panic.com/coda/ take a look at how they do the tabs
[21:57] <newz2000> mdke: how's this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/tmp/docs-logo.png
[21:58] <newz2000> vbabiy: those are nice tabs
[21:58] <newz2000> kind of "un-tabs"
[21:58] <vbabiy> newz2000: but the slide show thing works well to
[21:58] <vbabiy> or film strip
[21:58] <mdke> newz2000: pretty cool :) Is there a way to make it bigger? even if you have to use some extra right space, as with https://help.ubuntu.com now
[21:59] <newz2000> mdke:  you want the whole thing bigger or just the word "documentation"?
[21:59] <mdke> newz2000: the latter, if you think it works. I'm just wondering how best to differentiate from the main site, to make it clear the user has moved
[22:00] <mdke> I was toying with a slightly different logo, such as https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc, but I don't really like changing logos
[22:00] <newz2000> I may not be the one to ask about this since I'm not a big fan of custom logos
[22:00] <newz2000> but I can definitely make the text larger
[22:01] <mdke> I'm not either, let's go with the text
[22:02] <mdke> here is what my theme looks like at the moment, for any intermediate comments anyone has - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/wikitheme.png
[22:02] <newz2000> mdke: refresh that url I gave
[22:02] <mdke> fantastic, thanks
[22:02] <emunkki> mdke, that's the ubuntu skin for the wiki?
[22:03] <newz2000> that text is so sharp
[22:03] <jarlen> hm, my drupal/apache installation won't recognise my posgresql installation, is there any specific changes I need to do to make them work together?
[22:04] <jarlen> I can't find much on the subject
[22:04] <newz2000> jarlen: I've not had great luck getting drupal and postgres to work...
[22:04] <emunkki> jarlen, have you checked the drupal settings file?
[22:04] <newz2000> drupal core tends to be OK but plugins often lack support/testing for pg
[22:04] <mdke> emunkki: work in progress...
[22:04] <emunkki> mdke, but will be that?
[22:05] <mdke> emunkki: I don't know
[22:05] <jarlen> emunkki > no
[22:05] <jarlen> don't think so
[22:05] <mdke> emunkki: but the idea is to use it at least for the help wiki
[22:05] <emunkki> jarlen, sites/default/something.icant.remember
[22:05] <emunkki> mdke, ok
[22:06] <mdke> I still haven't been able to bring myself to change the brown links to red...
[22:06] <emunkki> mdke, html body a { color: red; }
[22:06] <emunkki> should work in basically any case
[22:06] <newz2000> mdke: I've been trying some new stuff with the themeing I've done on moin lately... namely to get rid of the clutter at the top of the page
[22:07] <mdke> newz2000: have you got an example?
[22:07] <newz2000> yes, somewhere...
[22:07] <emunkki> newz2000, can we use same templates i've done for the kubuntu start page?
[22:07] <emunkki> or modified, of course
[22:07] <emunkki> would that be too bad?
[22:08] <newz2000> emunkki: not ready for such a radical change yet I think
[22:08] <emunkki> gnaa ;)
[22:09] <newz2000> mdke: bzr co http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/landscapetheme/
[22:10] <newz2000> you'll see in there a 'wiki' folder with the landscape wiki theme
[22:10] <newz2000> for moin 1.6.3
[22:11] <newz2000> wait, let me make sure its up to date
[22:12] <newz2000> mdke: I just updated it, so if you already grabed it, do an update
[22:12] <newz2000> but if not, its safe to pull now
[22:13] <mdke> newz2000: ok. i'll check it out now
[22:14] <jarlen> ok, got that working, now it just says my php isn't setup to use postgresql :P
[22:16] <mdke> newz2000: very nice
[22:17] <emunkki> jarlen, is it then?
[22:17] <newz2000> mdke: I'm afraid that the sudden loss of clutter will freak people out, but personally I think it yields a much cleaner layout
[22:17] <jarlen> most likely not
[22:18] <jarlen> looking at the config file now
[22:18] <emunkki> jarlen, http://fi2.php.net/manual/en/pgsql.setup.php ?
[22:19] <mdke> newz2000: agreed, although it's not as obvious for editors how to start editing, and they have to go further too
[22:20] <newz2000> my thought was the editing is done far less frequently than reading, and you can just press the end key to jump to the page bottom
[22:20] <newz2000> a cooler thing may be to have the edit bar attach to the bottom of the browser window irrespective of scrolling if the user is logged in
[22:21] <mdke> yes, that would be cool indeed
[22:21] <emunkki> #div { position: attached; }
[22:22] <newz2000> is it that simple these days?
[22:22] <newz2000> that's slick
[22:22] <emunkki> iirc, it is
[22:23] <emunkki> it might be some other css selector, but anyway
[22:23] <emunkki> it definately is easy
[22:23] <mdke> that doesn't seem to work here, on an initial try
[22:23] <emunkki> mdke, i'll check it in a minut
[22:23] <emunkki> +e
[22:24] <newz2000> there was position: fixed
[22:24] <newz2000> but I only used it for background images
[22:24] <emunkki> might be that
[22:24] <mdke> then again, all my moin/css activity is total trial and error, rather than any real understanding
[22:24] <emunkki> http://www.w3schools.com/Css/pr_class_position.asp
[22:24] <emunkki> some of those
[22:24] <emunkki> can't really remember
[22:24] <newz2000> mdke: try position: fixed; bottom: 0; left: 0; width: 100%
[22:24] <emunkki> it's not 100% reliable on different browsers
[22:25] <emunkki> but you can adapt different ways for it to appear for ie, example
[22:25] <newz2000> right, position: fixed used to be just IE only
[22:25] <emunkki> with IE's conditional comments
[22:26] <emunkki> just wait a minute and i'll check it ;)
[22:27] <mdke> newz2000: yes, that works
[22:27] <mdke> clever :)
[22:27] <emunkki> ok, so that should work with most modern browsers
[22:27] <emunkki> pay special attention to IE, however
[22:27] <emunkki> i remember it having some problems with fixed position elements
[22:29] <mdke> it will need a box to stop it from clashing with the page text, but that looks like it has distinct potential
[22:30] <newz2000> just give it a background-color: #fff; border-top: 1px solid #000;
[22:30] <newz2000> or use the dark brown instead of #000
[22:30] <newz2000> wow, droid is such a good font, but some of its letters (little g) are so distinct
[22:31] <newz2000> it's so easy to read in small spaces
[22:31] <newz2000> I just wish it looked a little more generic
[22:35] <mdke> ok, bed for me. Thanks for your help guys
[22:36] <emunkki> see you
[22:44] <emunkki> night ->
[22:47] <jarlen> Ok, I have absolutely NO idea why it won't take my postgresql extension for php after editing the php.ini as asked
[22:47] <jarlen> I give up
[22:47] <jarlen> goodnight