[02:23] <jtechidna> Riddell: What do you think of using an icon like this for update-notifier to notify of updates? http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/update-needed.png
[02:23] <jtechidna> It shows software, "up"grade, and is less scary than the current one. ;-)
[02:23] <jtechidna> plus oxygen ftw
[02:31] <jtechidna> You know what would be awesome? A KWin effects bar plasmoid
[02:32] <jtechidna> It'd be a longish bar with buttons with little icons for various KWin effects
[02:32] <jtechidna> You could toggle things like the snow effect from it, or bring up the desktop grid
[02:33] <jtechidna> bring up the present window thingy
[02:33] <jtechidna> all without memorizing a single keyboard shortcut
[02:34] <jtechidna> In KDE 4.2 you could even put it in it's own panel on the top screen and set it to autohide
[02:34] <jtechidna> for easy access
[04:25] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: The only problem I've run into with the kde3.5.10 backport is FTBFS of kdenetwork on lpia.  It turns out the released version did this too, so it's not a regression.
[04:26] <ScottK-laptop> I've poked at it a bit and it looks like something in configure is telling it not to build kppp on lpia.
[04:27] <ScottK-laptop> I diffed the build logs for i386 and lpia and the key bit is http://paste.ubuntu.com/40823/
[04:27] <ScottK-laptop> I've hunted through and can't find when this would be.
[04:28] <ScottK-laptop> Any suggestions?
[04:35]  * Hobbsee eyes #kubuntu
[06:38] <Tonio_> hi there
[06:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: seen this ? http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Lancelot?content=87914&PHPSESSID=374f0e880347c24e91e960d97ead415b
[06:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I _want_ that ;)
[07:51] <\sh> apachelogger: hmmm? intrepid or hardy with ppa? I have both tested...and everything is fine
[10:16] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: adept lacks an icon at all so something like that would be good
[10:21] <waylandbill> I was looking at a bug that references kio-umountwrapper 0.2-0ubuntu6.1. If I attempt to apt-get source for that package I get 0ubuntu6. Does this mean that user's package version is from backports or intrepid or something?
[10:21] <Riddell> waylandbill: it's in hardy-proposed
[10:21] <Riddell> make sure you have a deb-src line for that
[10:22] <waylandbill> thanks Riddell
[10:22] <Riddell> it's also old, the new one is 6.2
[10:22] <Riddell> which fixes a (second) bug in the postrm script
[10:22] <waylandbill> so that bug is outdated as well then?
[10:24] <Riddell> waylandbill: I don't know unless you tell me the bug
[10:24] <waylandbill> sorry. bug 261730
[10:25] <waylandbill> it's still flagged as new.
[10:25] <Riddell> waylandbill: yeah, that should be fixed
[10:26] <Riddell> waylandbill: but while you're looking into it, could you try the test case in bug 186729 ?
[10:37] <smarter> morning
[10:38] <jpds> morning smarter
[10:39] <smarter> 'sup jpds
[10:39] <jpds> smarter: Not much, having on ubuntu-dev-tools.
[10:39] <jpds> hacking*
[10:39] <smarter> yeah, I've seen that :)
[10:39]  * smarter should really look at what this package does :p
[10:40] <jpds> smarter: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
[10:44] <smarter> I'll take a look
[10:59] <waylandbill> Riddell: sure. I'll take a look at the test case.
[11:01] <apachelogger> \sh: maybe it's just adep screwing up, but I think it's more likely that the upgrade fails
[11:07] <smarter> Riddell: did you upload -0ubuntu2 of qdevelop and bespin to fix ftbfs? :)
[11:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=849965 did you backport that?
[11:09] <Riddell> smarter: no, let me do that now
[11:09] <smarter> thanks
[11:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: nope
[11:09] <smarter> you could do kvpm too
[11:10]  * apachelogger is wondering why all the plasmoids failed
[11:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: shouldn't we backport it?
[11:11] <Riddell> apachelogger: can do yes
[11:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: ok, I am on it
[11:12] <apachelogger> and then I need a coffee S:
[11:13]  * Riddell onto the irn-bru already
[11:14]  * apachelogger is jealous
[11:15] <Riddell> smarter: done
[11:15] <smarter> thanks
[11:18] <Nightrose> Riddell: Claudia is missing one of the KDE banners in the booth box - since there was a kubuntu banner in there that didn't belong there and Czessi_ took it with him there is only 1 in the booth box now - do you happen to have the other one?
[11:20] <waylandbill> Riddell: test case for bug 186729 works.
[11:23] <Riddell> Nightrose: no, I have two kubuntu posters is all
[11:23] <Riddell> waylandbill: great, please add a comment on the bug
[11:23] <Nightrose> Riddell: ok then maybe Bart still has them - I will ask him
[11:24] <waylandbill> Riddell: already did. Should I modify the status of the other reported bug, so it is no longer new? and if so, to which status?
[11:26] <Riddell> waylandbill: the other one is fix released
[11:34] <Nightrose> Riddell: ok Bart had it - all good now :)
[11:34] <Riddell> yay
[11:34] <Riddell> Nightrose: froscon any good?
[11:35] <Nightrose> jep :)
[11:35] <Nightrose> was great
[11:35] <Nightrose> Czessi_ and nemphis did a great talk
[11:35] <Nightrose> though the audience could have been bigger...
[11:36] <apachelogger> at least there was audience :P
[11:36] <Nightrose> hehe
[11:36] <Nightrose> indeed
[11:36] <apachelogger> last year we woudl have only talked to Beineri
[11:36] <Nightrose> :P
[11:36] <apachelogger> that reminds me ...
[11:36]  * apachelogger wanted to talk with him about GTK theming
[11:49] <waylandbill> what does the 'ppa' in a package name mean?
[11:49] <Riddell> that's usually put in the version number to indicate it's in a PPA (launchpad personal archive)
[11:53] <smarter> Riddell: could you do kvpm too please? :}
[11:53] <Riddell> smarter: url?
[11:54] <smarter> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kvpm/ubuntu
[11:56] <Riddell> smarter: if you fancy removing that DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR from cdbs that would be welcome
[11:56] <smarter> why?
[11:56] <smarter> it's the only way to make debian/install works with "debian/kvpm.desktop /usr/path/"
[11:57] <Riddell> smarter: remove from cdbs's kde4.mk file
[11:57] <Riddell> so it's not needed by packages
[11:57] <Riddell> smarter: kvpm uploaded
[11:57] <smarter> thanks
[11:58] <smarter> hmm, there's still DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR = debian/tmp in kde4.mk
[11:58] <smarter> but that's not necessary with debian/compat set to 7
[11:58] <smarter> because " From debhelper compatibility level 7 on, dh_install will fall back to looking in debian/tmp for files, if it doesn’t find them in the current directory (or whereever you’ve told
[11:58] <smarter> it to look using --srcdir)."
[12:00] <Riddell> smarter: keep that, our packages don't use compat 7
[12:01] <smarter> this one do :p
[12:01] <Riddell> show off :)
[12:17] <apachelogger> smarter: we can't backport compat 7 :P
[12:18] <apachelogger> therefore I seriously dislike it
[12:18] <smarter> yep, I would not use that for kde modules/extragear
[12:19] <smarter> apachelogger: but how do you install things from debian/ in debian/install then?
[12:19] <apachelogger> ../
[12:19] <apachelogger> or ../../
[12:19] <apachelogger> or ../../../
[13:04] <ScottK> apachelogger: I just advocated devfil's gtk-kde4 thing.   Perhaps you'd like to look to see if you'll do the second.
[13:04] <devfil> ScottK: thanks
[13:06] <ScottK> devfil: No.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[13:44] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Unless you object, I'd like to file a bug asking for 3.5.10 to get copied from hardy-backports to hardy-updates to start gathering user feedback.  (I'm making the assumption we figure a way to solve the one kdeartwork build-dep in Universe problem).
[13:45] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: no objections, I think it easest just to not move kdeartwork
[13:47] <ScottK-laptop> OK, but won't that cause problems for upgraders who don't have backports enabled?
[13:48] <ScottK-laptop> BTW, all packages are built on all archs except hppa less the one lpia problem I mentioned last night.
[13:48] <\sh> apachelogger: I just upgraded from hardy with ppa to intrepid...and it works..just fglrx screws up, and now the desktop effects are enabled by default in kde4.1 intrepid, and I can't disable them because system settings doesn't show any icons
[13:49] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: no it won't
[13:50] <\sh> Riddell: what was the magic to disable the desktop effects for kde4.1 without starting systemsettings?
[13:50] <Riddell> \sh: sudo apt-get remove compiz-wrapper
[13:51] <\sh> Riddell: that would remove all of compiz somehow
[13:52] <ScottK-laptop> OK
[13:53] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: I'm afraid I've never looked at lpia, I only care about i386 and amd64
[13:53] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[13:53] <Riddell> \sh: well, yes
[14:03] <\sh> Riddell: kcmshell4 kwincompositing -> disable
[14:03] <ScottK-laptop> Try this again on the right channel...
[14:03] <ScottK-laptop> Filed as Bug 261840.  I'll send mail to kubuntu-devel asking for feedback.
[14:03] <\sh> Riddell: systemsettings is broken, because it doesn't show any kcmshell4 plugins
[14:04] <JontheEchidna> bug 260168 needs a sponsor
[14:05]  * JontheEchidna just uploaded diff.gz and .dsc
[14:05] <\sh> hmm
[14:06] <\sh> Riddell: systemssettings-kde4 is still in /usr/lib/kde4/bin ? I thought with defaulting to kde4 in intrepid we move everything back to /usr/
[14:07] <Riddell> \sh: there shouldn't be any such package
[14:07] <\sh> Riddell: but there is :)
[14:07] <\sh> Riddell: the kde-systemsettings looks like kde4
[14:07] <\sh> aeh kde3
[14:07] <JontheEchidna> \sh: just regular "systemsettings"
[14:07] <JontheEchidna> systemsettings-kde4 doesn't exist in Intrepid
[14:08] <ScottK-laptop> But he upgraded, so we need to make sure to remove it on upgrades I guess.
[14:08] <\sh> then there is a replace/conflicts bug in the control file of systemsettings
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> we should look at that
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> when we package 4.1.1 tomorrow
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: ^
[14:09] <\sh> well regarding apt-cache show systemsettings it's conflicts/replaces is in place...but during apt-get dist-upgrade it didn't work
[14:09] <JontheEchidna> I guess we'll need a transitional package?
[14:09] <\sh> other packages worked
[14:10] <\sh> oh NO
[14:10] <\sh> mostly all ppa packages are still in place and not upgrade
[14:10] <\sh> d
[14:11] <\sh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/40908/
[14:11] <\sh> that's the list after upgrade
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> that's like... everything
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> that has a -kde4 suffix
[14:12] <\sh> right...all rc are gone, all ii are still in place.
[14:13] <\sh> installing then manually, the replacement works
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> interesting
[14:14] <\sh> hmm..what was the cli magic of mvo for release upgrades?
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> apt-get moo
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> ;-)
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> something like do-release-upgrade -d
[14:16] <\sh> argll
[14:16] <\sh> apt-get install kubuntu-desktop installs the right things, so replace/conflicts of kubuntu-desktop doesn't work too
[14:17] <\sh> so I wonder if there is a bug in apt-get to not honour conflicts/replaces
[14:17] <\sh> yay...
[14:18] <Riddell> what conflicts?
[14:18] <\sh> Riddell: ok...here it goes: people without kubuntu-desktop can't upgrade cleanly to intrepid, because there is no kubuntu-desktop ;) if they only installed kubuntu-kde4-desktop ,-)
[14:19] <\sh> this is what I did :)
[14:19] <\sh> layer 9 problem yes..but possible
[14:21] <Riddell> just needs the dist upgrade tool changed to know about that
[14:21] <Riddell> we can poke mvo when he gets back from holiday
[14:24] <waylandbill> I was looking at bug 261775. I think I could implement the missing feature in the adept-manager but the copy I got from the bazaar doesn't seem to compile. kubuntu_26_gxx43.diff. My system doesn't have gcc43. That cause I'm not running 8.10? Do I have to be to work on this?
[14:24] <\sh> Riddell: k...that sounds like a plan
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> waylandbill: yes, Intrepid would probably be required. Especially since Intrepid has Adept 3.0 and Hardy has 2.1.something
[14:25] <Riddell> waylandbill: intrepid has an entirely new version of adept (which isn't in bzr)
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> I don't believe you can highlight text in app descriptions at all with Adept 3.0
[14:27] <waylandbill> Ah. guess I won't worry about that then. :)
[14:28] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: Being able to select and to copy is equivalent, if we consider the "primary" (ie, middle-mouse-button paste).
[14:28] <mornfall> Moreover, making the text selectable in adept 3 should be a one-liner.
[14:28] <mornfall> If people are asking for ctrl+c/v, well, that's a different thing I guess, but shouldn't be hard either. Dunno.
[14:31] <JontheEchidna> mornfall: By the way, packages with huge descriptions like devscripts can't be installed with Adept because if you scroll down, it goes to the top of the next package entry in the list
[14:32] <waylandbill> don't know if Adept 3 is based in a QLabel as Adept 2 was but if it is, overriding keyPressEvent would be the way to catch ctrl+c, which is probably not news.
[14:32] <seele> Riddell: do you have a time span for the data in the ubuntu hardware db you formatted for me?
[14:34] <Riddell> seele: 2006-03-15 is the last one
[14:35] <seele> the last one or the first one?
[14:35] <seele> er, latest or earliest
[14:36] <Riddell> latest
[14:36] <seele> eek, so the data is 2 years old?
[14:36] <Riddell> mm, looks lik eit
[14:37] <seele> hmm.. that's a bummer.
[14:38] <seele> i guess i could assume that screens have gotten bigger over time, but now i dont have relevant evidence. boo
[14:41] <smarter> you could ask other distros if they have an up to date hardware db?
[14:41] <waylandbill> kubuntu 8.04 wasn't an lts release was it?
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> 8.04 wasn't an LTS
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> so you are correct
[14:43] <waylandbill> JontheEchidna: okay. thanks.
[14:43] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: Ah. Noting down, it has wrong scrolling style set...
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> mornfall: scroll is set to per-item instead of per pixel?
[14:43] <Riddell> mornfall: do you have an opinion on an icon for adept?  JontheEchidna had a suggestion earlier
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/update-needed.png
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> Well, it was more a suggestion for the icon for the update-notifier systray icon
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> but I guess adept could use it to
[14:44] <Riddell> I think they should use the same icon
[14:45] <smarter> seele: http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/
[14:47] <smarter> don't seem to display the resolutions :/
[14:47] <seele> yeah, :(
[14:47] <seele> smarter: thanks for the thought though :)
[14:47] <smarter> you're welcome ;)
[14:48] <smarter> maybe the fedora guys have this information?
[14:48] <mornfall> I guess I don't have an opinion. Although the proposal seems a little crowded to me.
[14:48] <seele> smarter: yeah, i'm pinging suse guys too to see if they have any data
[14:48] <smarter> great
[14:49] <Riddell> seele: the guy to ask with more up to date data in Canonical is cr3
[14:50] <seele> Riddell: thanks
[14:51] <JontheEchidna> mornfall: the 22x22 pixel icon of applications-others which I used as a base for the icon is slightly more minimalistic
[14:52] <JontheEchidna> (See also /usr/share/icons/oxygen/22x22/categories/applications-other.png)
[14:53]  * JontheEchidna experiments with the smaller icon
[14:55] <smarter> apachelogger: their's no kde-nightly for Intrepid?
[14:57] <Riddell> seele: this could be relevant http://gould.cx/ted/blog/Mine_is_bigger
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> smarter: it exists, just add the hardy repo. But kde-nightly causes some nasty conflicts with Qt apps at the moment
[15:01] <seele> Riddell: the problem with his data is it is from the web.  users of large resolutions don't browse full screen
[15:02] <seele> Riddell: cr3 just pinged me back
[15:02] <smarter> JontheEchidna: what sort of conflicts?
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> Qt apps not starting, complaining about incompatible versions of QT
[15:03] <smarter> 'kay
[15:03] <smarter> thanks
[15:08] <waylandbill> not only do many not browse full screen, if they have multiple monitors, they may not use a large portion of the desktop.
[15:09] <waylandbill> I found this helpful: http://webdesign.about.com/od/webdesignbasics/a/aa041607.htm
[15:10] <seele> yes, but the question is how much of the ubuntu population have high vs. low resolutions
[15:11] <seele> people dont browse the web at full screen in high resolutions because it makes text hard to read and seems to waste space because many websites are using fixed width designs
[15:11] <seele> however, users still run non-browser desktop software at full screen to take advantage of workspace real estate
[15:14] <\sh> apachelogger: building quassel 0.3.0 for intrepid
[15:25] <apachelogger> \sh: don't forget to push the updates to bzr :P
[15:25] <apachelogger> \sh, JontheEchidna: can someone please give an appropriate report I can fix
[15:25]  * apachelogger ain't a data aggregator :P
[15:30] <apachelogger> smarter: one of the project neon policies is to only build against current stable to keep maintenance overhead at a reasonable amount
[15:30] <smarter> ok
[15:34]  * apachelogger is wondering whether to apply for motu-release
[15:34] <ScottK-laptop> We've already got one KDE person on it (me), so from that perspective, I don't think it's needed.
[15:34] <apachelogger> the more the better ;-)
[15:35] <Riddell> yep :)
[15:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: I guess motu-release activity would be supportive for a core dev application?
[15:42] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes, but I'd say you have enough for that already
[15:43] <apachelogger> hm, then I probably should apply for that :)
[15:59] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: do you watch the KDE bug reports?
[16:00] <apachelogger> there are 2 or 3 about possible .10 regressions
[16:00] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Not generally, no.
[16:00] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: I would appreciate pointers.
[16:01] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: bug 261853 and bug 261694
[16:01] <apachelogger> apparently the latter is only related to the universe kicker-compiz taskbar thingy
[16:01] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Thanks.
[16:04] <apachelogger> oh
[16:04] <apachelogger> cool
[16:04] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ark in 4.2 can do batch stuff again
[16:04] <apachelogger> i.e. we should backport and get servicesmenus
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> yay!
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> do we has FFE for 4.1.1?
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> or will we need one?
[16:07] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Looks like maybe the compiz thingy needs rebuilt.
[16:08] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: yes, sounds resonable, but kicker isn't too reasonable most of the time :)
[16:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we don't have one yet, we will need one though
[16:08] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: if you ask nicely, I shall grant one :)
[16:08] <Riddell> perks of being on the release team
[16:08] <apachelogger> :D
[16:08] <ScottK-laptop> ;-)
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: pwetty pwease?
[16:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think we should just get a standing exception
[16:09] <apachelogger> for .2 as well
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> yeah, filing bugs for every module doesn't sound fun
[16:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you plan to do the same top organising job for 4.1.1 as you did for 4.1.0?
[16:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: of course, everything is already prepared :)
[16:10] <Riddell> goodness
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> We're just waiting for tarbals
[16:10] <Riddell> I'm away on Monday and probably busy on Tuesday (moving house)
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> good luck
[16:13] <apachelogger> we should get the FFE before monday... I guess ScottK or nixternal or Hobbsee can start uploading on tuesday evening
[16:13]  * apachelogger opens korganizer
[16:14] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Please let me know if you see any other bugs that look like 3.5.10 regressions.
[16:14] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: of course
[16:17] <apachelogger> \sh: what's the status of quassel 0.3.0?
[16:17] <\sh> apachelogger: released..working on the package
[16:17] <\sh> apachelogger: ftbfs with Cannot find libdbus-1 in your system to resolve symbol 'dbus_signature_validate_single'.
[16:18] <apachelogger> \sh: it will only build on i386
[16:18] <apachelogger> there is some major breakage which prevents building on anything else
[16:18] <\sh> apachelogger: WTF?
[16:18] <\sh> argl
[16:18] <\sh> rebuilding with i386
[16:18] <apachelogger> well, they killed intrepid... again ;-)
[16:19] <apachelogger> today is meeting
[16:19] <apachelogger> or rather, tomorrow
[16:19] <\sh> apachelogger: what was killed? did I miss a toolchain upload?
[16:19] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[16:20] <jjesse> we have a kubuntu meeting today?
[16:20] <Jucato> 23+8...
[16:21] <Jucato> wow @ 07:00 my time?
[16:21] <apachelogger> 1am cest :P
[16:21] <apachelogger> who came up with that time anyway :P
[16:21] <Jucato> I definitely had no hand in it :)
[16:23] <vorian> yo!
[16:23] <Jucato> and neither does Hobbsee I would presume :)
[16:23]  * vorian stumbles in from endless work afk
[16:24] <\sh> apachelogger: dann ist i386 auch im eimer
[16:24] <\sh> apachelogger: i386 doesn't build either
[16:24] <apachelogger> \o/
[16:24] <apachelogger> all of intrepid dead
[16:25] <apachelogger> that means we can violate FF for the next 2 days :P
[16:30] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: No one in #ubuntu-devel seems to know this.
[16:34] <\sh> apachelogger: hmm...libdbus-1-dev helped somehow ,-)
[16:34] <\sh> apachelogger: it builds now as it seems..so something is missing in libqt4-dev ??
[16:35] <\sh> hopefully libqt4-dev is depending on libqt4-dbus-dev or whatever, and this should depend on libdbus-1-dev
[16:36] <\sh> apachelogger: sput and egs and I were discussing this release yesterday...and I told them we have freeze on 28th...so they decided they releases 0.3.0 and will come back to us with some backported patches
[16:36] <\sh> apachelogger: but are not introducing new features...
[16:38] <\sh> apachelogger: i386 build...now for amd64 with the new b-d
[16:46] <apachelogger> \sh, ScottK-laptop: maybe something in qt4 depds changed
[16:46] <apachelogger> all new plasmoids also failed for yet-to-discover reasons
[16:46] <\sh> apachelogger: libdbus-1-dev is missing in libqt4-dev
[16:47] <\sh> somehow it didn't get pulled in by anything anymore
[16:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ^
[16:48] <apachelogger> can someone find out how that happaned? and fix it of course.
[16:48]  * apachelogger needs to update the KDE 4.1.1 changelog
[16:48] <\sh> shouldn't libqt4-dbus depend on something like libdbus-1-3?
[16:49] <Riddell> libqt4-dbus has its own dbus implementation
[16:49] <\sh> Riddell: well, then I don't understand the ftbfs..
[16:49] <\sh> Riddell: libqt4-dev should give me some dbus magic then, and qt4 apps who are using dbus shouldn't fail, right?
[16:50] <\sh> ok
[16:50] <\sh> I just talked to sput about this
[16:51] <\sh> he told me, that they are using the qt4 dbus implementation...but this is more then strange
[16:52] <Riddell> qt does use something from libdbus so qt's -dev should depend on libdbus's -dev
[16:52] <Riddell> but I'm not clear on what that something is
[16:52] <\sh> Riddell: libdbus-1-dev that's the only thing we have left ,-)
[16:52] <\sh> and that's what helped me now to resolve the ftbfs
[16:54] <\sh> Riddell: I#ll add it to the deps and push a debdiff to you
[16:56] <apachelogger> \sh: I don't think that is an appropriate fix
[16:56] <apachelogger> me@apoc { ~ }$ apt-cache rdepends libdbus-1-dev | grep kde
[16:56] <apachelogger>   kdelibs5-dev
[16:56] <apachelogger>   kdebase-workspace-dev
[16:56] <apachelogger> they probably depend on it for the very reason that libqt4-dev doesn't
[16:57] <\sh> apachelogger: but it could be also the reason, that they do use a very own dbus interface, instead of qt4-dbus
[16:58] <\sh> apachelogger: anyways...if qt4 depends on something from dbus, it should also depend inside the -dev packages...because you need it anyways...
[16:58] <apachelogger> me@apoc { ~ }$ apt-cache show libqt4-dbus  | grep Depends
[16:58] <apachelogger> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libqt4-xml (= 4.4.1-0ubuntu2), libqtcore4 (= 4.4.1-0ubuntu2), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1)
[16:58] <\sh> apachelogger: yes...that's my concern...something is wrong
[16:59] <apachelogger> stupid shlibs :P
[16:59] <\sh> apachelogger: if there is the need of a link to libdbus-1 (which is the complain) then it should depend on it
[16:59] <\sh> or it's a bug in some place of the dpkg build tools
[16:59] <apachelogger> \sh: well, maybe quassel just accessed a non-qt-dbus include?
[16:59] <\sh> nope...
[17:00] <\sh> no include is causing this...it's the linker
[17:00] <apachelogger> well
[17:00] <\sh> and it doesn't find the libdbus-1 lib
[17:00] <\sh> apachelogger: I trust sput :)
[17:00] <apachelogger> check the source
[17:00] <apachelogger> the cmake linker would link recursive and I doubt that quassel is the only qt app using qtdbus
[17:01] <apachelogger> so that issue would appear for others as well
[17:01] <\sh> yes
[17:01] <apachelogger> my guess is that quassel is missing an include or target or both in a cmakelists.txt
[17:02] <apachelogger> which is either on qtdbus or they access non-qtdbus stuff and are missing the includes/targets for that
[17:02]  * apachelogger goes dinnering
[17:03] <\sh> set(QT_USE_QTDBUS 1)
[17:03] <\sh> that's the only dbus section for quassel..in client
[17:03] <\sh> and then in cmake/modules/FindQt4.cmake
[17:04] <\sh> no mentioning of libdbus-1.* something
[17:04] <\sh> so it's missing really from somewhere essential
[17:06] <ScottK-laptop> vorian: Did you upload the gtk-kde4 thing?
[17:06] <vorian> ScottK-laptop: yes
[17:06] <ScottK-laptop> vorian: Please archive it on REVU too.
[17:06] <vorian> yessir
[17:06] <vorian> done
[17:07] <\sh> apachelogger: I'll test something...yakuake is also a rdepends of libqt4-dbus
[17:08] <\sh> argl...
[17:08] <\sh> it's coming from kdelibs5-dev
[17:08] <ScottK-laptop> vorian: You should also send the changes message to MOTU ML.
[17:08] <vorian> writing that up now :)
[17:09] <\sh> yay...could it be that we don't have any qt only app with dbus stuff?
[17:09] <ScottK-laptop> vorian: Great.
[17:14] <\sh> apachelogger: think about the add  of libdbus-1-dev to libqt4-dev...I'll think I have to rush home now
[17:15] <seele> Riddell: does your new housing situation mean we'll see less of you in general? ;)
[17:17] <Riddell> seele: I doubt it, plus the internet is three times as fast so I should be super productive
[17:18] <seele> you doubt it!  at least it's the man saying that
[17:22]  * Riddell suspects there's a subtle entenre here that he's too innocent to see
[17:22] <ScottK-laptop> I don't think there's anything at all subtle going on.
[17:23]  * seele is too polite to turn the normally PG channel up a notch
[17:34] <Riddell> seele: oh go on, dare ye
[17:37] <seele> nooo.. don't turn me in the the bad guy, i was just trying to make fun!
[17:38] <seele> it's the middle of the day, the children are still awake!
[17:38] <apachelogger> -.-
[17:38] <apachelogger> \sh: dood, did you see that: NOTICE: 'quassel' packaging is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at:
[17:38] <apachelogger> lp:~ubuntu-dev/quassel/ubuntu
[17:49] <apachelogger> suse's libqt4 depends on libdbus-1.so.3
[17:52] <apachelogger> interesting enough that that our's doesn't
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> The interesting part is, how did it work without breaking until now?
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> and why does it still work in i386?
[17:54] <apachelogger> well
[17:54] <apachelogger> IMHO the quassel issue and the plasmoid issue aren't related
[17:55] <apachelogger> and I don't have any affected architecutre, so I can't trace the plasmoid one down
[18:05] <smarter> damn, my 800 KB/s connection is slow today
[19:33] <blizzz> is todays meeting  in this channel or over there in #ubuntu-meeting?
[19:39] <seele> blizzz: #ubuntu-meeting afaik
[19:40] <blizzz> seele: ty. i am wondering, because both channels are named on the meeting's page
[19:41] <seele> oh
[19:41] <seele> maybe it is in here
[19:41] <blizzz> *gg*
[19:41] <blizzz> i'll watch both chans
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> it'll probably be announced here when it's about to start and where
[19:43] <apachelogger> no
[19:43] <apachelogger> someone please fix the wiki page
[19:43] <apachelogger> we had to do the last meeting here because -meeting was already in use
[19:52] <yuriy> hmm is apport-qt qt3?
[19:52] <JontheEchidna> pyqt4 apps run as root seem to use the kde3 widget theme
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> see also: jockey or software-properties-kde before they had pykde ports
[19:53]  * JontheEchidna wretches
[19:53] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no
[19:53] <apachelogger> the default Qt theme is plastique
[19:54] <apachelogger> which is essentially a port of plastik :P
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> oh,
[19:54]  * JontheEchidna wretches at that
[19:54] <JontheEchidna> the color scheme was the real killer
[19:54] <yuriy> can that be changed to oxygen?
[19:54] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: it does follow the color scheme here, but uses plastique widgets
[20:00] <apachelogger> yuriy: probably
[20:06] <apachelogger> mornfall: poke
[20:06] <apachelogger> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'adept::LockingFailureException'
[20:06] <apachelogger>   what():  Resource temporarily unavailable. Context:
[20:06] <apachelogger>     Unable to lock administrative directory /var/lib/dpkg/
[20:06] <apachelogger> mornfall: adept failing silently when it can't lock is super duper uber evil
[20:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: in alpha5 it didn't do that
[20:07] <JontheEchidna> zomg regression
[20:07] <mornfall> Oh, cool.
[20:07] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: Yeah, noone ever tests things like these, do they? ... I only can check so many things myself...
[20:07] <mornfall> This is a second one (updater not doing anything being the other).
[20:08] <apachelogger> mornfall: you might want to compile a list of test scenarios to be tested in the ubuwiki
[20:08]  * apachelogger thinks it makes sense to do them for every kubuntu release anyway
[20:08] <apachelogger> package manager gui is too much of an import app to allow any kind of regression
[20:09] <mornfall> Well, I actually know where the problem is.
[20:38] <mornfall> Anyone else with Adept bugs?
[20:38] <mornfall> I have fixed 2 regressions and one bug since beta1.
[20:39] <ScottK-laptop> mornfall: You know what mine is (unsigned repos).
[20:39]  * jtechidna tries to remember if there was anything else
[20:40] <jtechidna> oh, updates don't get marked for upgrade unless you fetch the lists from adept updater
[20:40] <mornfall> jtechidna: Yes, that's the other regression.
[20:40] <jtechidna> ah, cool :)
[20:45] <mornfall> ScottK-laptop: Okey, you win... I'm adding that to beta2 todo, although it should properly be excluded as it wasn't really planned for 3.0. But it seems easy enough.
[20:53] <ScottK> mornfall: Thanks.
[22:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: why exactly are the .jar files in soprano conflicting with dfsg?
[22:18] <jtechidna> didn't java used to be closed-source?
[22:18] <jtechidna> until like very recently?
[22:18] <apachelogger> that doesn't matter
[22:18] <apachelogger> .jar is only zip
[22:18] <jtechidna> a debian maintainer's mother was killed by a falling jar?
[22:19] <apachelogger> well, we don't use the sesame backend right now so it doesn't matter
[22:19] <apachelogger> but I don't understand why they are to be removed
[22:21] <jtechidna> oh, they probably don't include the source in the tarball for the .jars
[22:22] <jtechidna> or that's what a quick google/looking over a debbug report suggests
[22:23] <apachelogger> again
[22:23] <apachelogger> the .jars are essentially just .zips
[22:23] <apachelogger> you can unzip them and get a load of text files with class definitions
[22:23]  * jtechidna shrugs
[22:54] <Riddell> apachelogger: there's no source included
[22:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: the jars include the source?
[22:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: by that definiton the in-tarball cdbs stuff would be conflicting with dfsg as well, wouldn't it?
[22:56] <Riddell> let me see
[22:59] <Riddell> apachelogger: nope, definately no source (in openrdf-sesame-2.1.3-onejar.jar)
[22:59] <apachelogger> hm, ok
[22:59] <apachelogger> we probably should talk to master trueg about that
[23:00] <jtechidna> he has mastered semantic shapeshifting
[23:00]  * jtechidna thinks that sounds like an awesome superpower
[23:00] <Riddell> apachelogger: I have, he doesn't seem overly bothered
[23:00] <apachelogger> oh
[23:01] <Riddell> apachelogger: it just needs somewhere reliable to host the .jar files, preferably their upstream projects but ktown would do
[23:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://soprano.sourceforge.net/node/26
[23:01] <Riddell> it also needs them packaged as .debs from source, I believe at least one of them already is
[23:01] <apachelogger> maybe we should get a amndriva guy to do it ^^
[23:01] <apachelogger> *mandriva
[23:01] <Riddell> helio seems to think that link it sufficient
[23:02] <apachelogger> *nod*
[23:02] <Riddell> which it isn't, very slippery slope to start with pointers to souce
[23:03] <Riddell> it's pretty bad manners of them to add a major dependency like java to kde without asking anyone
[23:03] <Riddell> once they're removed I'm going to ament the KDE licencing policy to make it clear that source is required in the same place
[23:10] <Riddell> looks like the slf4j ones are already packaged, but an older version
[23:10] <Riddell> the other one has a jar available from its sourceforge site
[23:16] <Riddell> hmm, packaging looks complex
[23:23] <Riddell> and the .tar.gz just contains a bunch of .jars
[23:23] <Riddell> no source in site
[23:32] <yuriy> mornfall: dunno if it's a bug in the kubuntu packaging, but there are no icons for the adept items in kickoff
[23:34] <Riddell> yuriy: there isn't an icon (yet)
[23:35] <yuriy> ah. is somebody working on one? kwwii?
[23:35] <jtechidna> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/update-needed.png
[23:35] <yuriy> oh, nice
[23:35] <mhb> I disagree, as always :-)
[23:36] <yuriy> I don't really understand why there is a CD there
[23:36] <yuriy> hey mhb!
[23:36] <yuriy> long time no see
[23:36] <jtechidna> yuriy: CD's are software-y
[23:36] <mhb> the icon is too crowded with stuff, and not really intuitive enough for me
[23:36] <seele> yay mhb!
[23:37]  * seele hugs mhb 
[23:37] <mhb> hi folks
[23:37] <seele> jtechidna: the arrow should be pointing down
[23:37] <jtechidna> for software *up*grades?
[23:37] <seele> arrows pointing up imply upload, arrows pointing down imply download
[23:37] <ScottK-laptop> Heya mhb.  How're you doing?
[23:37] <jtechidna> ah
[23:37] <seele> you download updates
[23:37] <jtechidna> right
[23:38] <mhb> ScottK-laptop: really busy with some school stuff, so not very well
[23:38] <jtechidna> Hmm, maybe I should see if there's something like a simple CD to base the icon off or something
[23:38] <ScottK-laptop> mhb: I understand busy.  Glad to see you stop in when you can.
[23:38] <mhb> I wouldn't even put a CD on it
[23:39] <mhb> it should just say "your computer needs updates", that's all
[23:39] <seele> jtechidna: no one likes the old icon?
[23:39] <mhb> CD does not really invoke software update for me
[23:39] <jtechidna> seele: I've had 2 people say it looks crowded
[23:40] <jtechidna> The question is, how do you say "software upgrade needed" with an icon....
[23:40] <mhb> jtechidna: I always thought perhaps reusing the concept of "refresh, reload" from the browser icon may work
[23:40] <yuriy> there is an icon in oxygen for packages, right?
[23:40] <yuriy> I think it's that kde box though
[23:41] <mhb> I wouldn't even use a package in that, as "package" is describing the implementation, not the action
[23:42] <mhb> what if we use application "envelopes" in the future? or bottles, like wine does :o)
[23:42] <jtechidna> why do we still use floppy disks for save icons?
[23:42] <jtechidna> :P
[23:43] <mhb> jtechidna: sorry if I'm a bother
[23:43]  * apachelogger takes a look at his wrist watch
[23:43] <mhb> jtechidna: I even tried to do this icon myself
[23:43] <jtechidna> heh
[23:43] <jtechidna> don't worry about it
[23:43] <mhb> back in the day when I was active and all was well
[23:43] <apachelogger> 17 minutes to go
[23:47] <mhb> jtechidna: http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=update3sk1.png or http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=updatetd0.png
[23:47] <mhb> jtechidna: but I gave up, I'm no artist
[23:47] <mhb> oh, KDE3, how I miss thee
[23:48] <apachelogger> mhb: do you have an icon for adept itself, yet?
[23:48] <apachelogger> actually... I think we should use the KDE icon for update stuff
[23:49] <apachelogger> system-software-update
[23:49] <apachelogger> e.g. /usr/share/icons/oxygen/32x32/apps/system-software-update.png
[23:49] <mhb> do you have a link for those not so fortunate?
[23:49] <mhb> hmm, any webby link? :o)
[23:49] <apachelogger> meh
[23:49] <jtechidna> oh hey, there is an icon for that
[23:50] <jtechidna> it even has mhb's reload-y icon idea
[23:50] <apachelogger> mhb: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/runtime/pics/oxygen/32x32/apps/system-software-update.png?view=markup
[23:50] <mhb> does it
[23:50] <mhb> apachelogger: thank you
[23:50]  * apachelogger looks at the small version
[23:50] <jtechidna> we should use that
[23:51] <yuriy> seele: I'm going to have to disagree about the up arrow, it should go up. the primary action is that you're *up*grading. the fact that it's done by downloading packages is not very important, and a down arrow will look like downgrading
[23:51] <mhb> looks acceptable at this size
[23:51] <apachelogger> hm, 16x16 isn't too awesome
[23:51] <mhb> no
[23:51] <apachelogger> but usable for now
[23:51] <yuriy> apachelogger: that icon is..wierd
[23:52] <mhb> well, it's unrecognizable
[23:52] <apachelogger> hm
[23:52] <apachelogger> I am a fan of simple tray icons
[23:52] <mhb> yes, me too
[23:52] <seele> yuriy: i don't think that's how the arrow will be interpreted.  at the very least it shouldnt be green because that is the color we use for file transfers
[23:52] <mhb> probbly because I like a lot of Mac ideas :o)
[23:53] <apachelogger> how is the mac approach to a bouncy update icon?
[23:53] <mhb> they the
[23:53] <mhb> they have used the refresh arrows too
[23:54] <mhb> they've got a globe (representing the web I guess) inside the eye of the refresh icon
[23:54] <apachelogger> suse has a similar one
[23:54] <yuriy> I think the updater icon should have the kubuntu logo and an up arrow, but that's not so good for adept in general
[23:54] <apachelogger> like the 2nd one you pasted with the suse icon in teh middle
[23:54] <mhb> http://slaptijack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/software_update_2.png
[23:54] <apachelogger> and color changing according to starte
[23:54] <apachelogger> *state
[23:55] <yuriy> I don't understand the whole spinning arrows thing for software updates
[23:55] <apachelogger> like green is all good, yellow is no network connection and red is update your system
[23:55] <jtechidna> isn't red a bit drastic?
[23:55] <mhb> yuriy: it means refreshing the system
[23:55] <mhb> I get that
[23:55] <apachelogger> jtechidna: maybe it wasn't really
[23:55] <apachelogger> red
[23:55] <yuriy> mhb: wth does that mean?
[23:55]  * apachelogger did remove that thingy before it became red :P
[23:55] <apachelogger> or whatever color it would have choosen
[23:55] <mhb> yuriy: updates?
[23:56] <yuriy> how does updates == refreshing the system?
[23:56] <mhb> you see the word update and think about the word up
[23:56] <mhb> but in fact, it's just applicable for English
[23:57] <mhb> the arrow circle is a sible of renewing, recyclation, which I think updates are also a part of
[23:57]  * yuriy tries to think of the/a russian word for update
[23:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: where are we meeting today?
[23:58] <atomic> packagekit update icons -> http://packagekit.org/pk-faq.html#tray-icons
[23:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: a good question
[23:58] <yuriy> atomic: opposite arrows for high and low priority? wtf?
[23:58] <apachelogger> atomic: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[23:58] <yuriy> but if arrows don't work.. a kubuntu logo and an exclamation symbol
[23:58]  * apachelogger shouldn't have promised to scream when he sees tango icons -.-
[23:59] <atomic> synaptic -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=update-notification.png
[23:59] <mhb> those are so bad :-)
[23:59] <apachelogger> atomic: are those tango as well?
[23:59] <mhb> the colours hint at prioriites, but the arrows don't at all
[23:59] <atomic> in the tango style
[23:59] <atomic> i don't think they're official tango however
[23:59]  * apachelogger doesn't click the link then
[23:59] <jtechidna> apachelogger: yeah, you'd puke