[00:00] no, hppa just doesn't have someone willing to give it a dignified end [00:00] it's been in worse shape than alpha for longer [00:00] Using linuxthreads on glibc 2.7 :-P [00:01] (which is what the m68k plan is if our compiler ever gets to the state that it has __thread) [00:06] * NCommander kicks ubuntu-cd alive [00:09] slangasek, so as to make sure that those changes to the seeds don't forget forgotten prior to alpha5, is there a particular place you'd like to see seed bugs filed at? [00:10] superm1: hum, there ought to be a place, but I don't know what it is [00:10] cjwatson: superm1 pointed out that nvidia drivers aren't included on the DVD currently; is there any reason you know of that they shouldn't be? [00:16] slangasek: not that I know of; maybe seed tweaks needed after they got split out from linux-restricted-modules [00:16] superm1: historically we've stuck seed bugs on ubuntu-meta [00:30] is there someone who is great with kernel so they can check it out and reverse engineer how the hyper-visor(ps3) communicates with it and see if you can find exploits ? === Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as Kopfi|offline [00:33] sbeattie, ok, GNOME is installed, and dinner was eaten, testing now [00:33] cjwatson, okay thanks. i've filed a bug there [00:35] is it normal for lintian on ubuntu to not know about Maintainer field differing from Changelog? [00:35] i notice it is warning a lot about that while repackaging OOo [00:35] sbeattie, confirming original bug works as expected [00:36] ah maybe its because i versioned the package incorrectly, heh [00:36] * calc adds ubuntu1 to the package name [00:37] calc, why are you repackaging OOo? [00:38] NCommander: split source packages [00:38] ah [00:38] So it won't take a decade to build? [00:38] yep ubuntu1 fixed it [00:38] YAY [00:39] It took three weeks to build on m68k [00:39] wgrant: it will still take a decade to build but there will be like 20 source packages instead [00:39] I think we FINALLY added that beast to NFU [00:40] calc: But it will no longer be like KDE where a typo fix in some documentation makes me download 60MB of icons again? [00:40] wgrant: probably not, at least that is the hope :) [00:40] * NCommander hugs calc [00:40] of course OOo is still in early stages of being split so this may not make it for intrepid, not sure yet [00:41] its being split in go-oo not upstream, at least not yet [00:41] BenC, ping [00:41] calc, if you need a beta tester, I'll help [00:42] NCommander: when i get it far enough along to be usable for testing i'll post on the relevant lists/forums [00:42] * calc is still working on getting the first source to build properly [00:42] calc, PPAs are your friends [00:42] If you run into FTBFS issues, hit me up [00:42] I'm fairly good at resolving them [00:42] NCommander: yep i have 3.0b2 in there now [00:43] the main issue is that i am converting a 3600 line rules file and getting it to build at the same time :) [00:43] Ow [00:43] NCommander: oh btw i used to maintain kde for debian (long ago) [00:43] 3600 LINE?! [00:43] well 3599 lines actually :) [00:43] *blinks* [00:43] For the love of god ... [00:43] I've built OOo from source [00:43] so far the new rules is only 409 lines [00:43] How the heck can that beast be 3600? [00:44] * NCommander discovers the Ubuntu-smokers group . [00:44] NCommander: OOo is very complicated :) [00:44] I realize that [00:44] But 3600? === superm1 is now known as superm1|away [00:44] Christ, there are packages in Debin that are smaller that including all the source in the orig.tar.gz [00:44] (not many, but sitll) [00:44] 409 lines for the new split package is just very basic support for the configure options, not much of anything in it yet [00:45] sbeattie, can't confirm the fix [00:45] Doesn't work right [00:45] bugger. [00:46] sbeattie, its now recongizing archive.ubuntu.com as a third party software [00:46] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/40799/ [00:46] stuff like that [00:46] Sources still pull from there, so it needs to recongize both [00:46] gar. [00:46] let me post my sources.list [00:47] sbeattie, I lost the bug, please relink [00:47] i'm trying to clean up as i go along since the current rules has evolved over 6 years and not really cleanly in some ways [00:47] Launchpad #220890 [00:47] Launchpad bug 220890 in python-apt "[hardy] software-properties-gtk doesn't recognize (nor know about) ports.ubuntu.com" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220890 [00:48] NCommander: is what you're seeing the same as bug 244093 or something different? [00:48] Launchpad bug 244093 in python-apt "Checking security repository in Updates adds deb line to Third-Party Software" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244093 [00:50] You mean security.ubuntu-ports.org in third-party software? [00:50] yeah, something like that. [00:51] Nope [00:51] Just archive.ubuntu.com is showing up in third party [00:51] actually [00:51] Also the CDs are [00:51] all that use system stuff in OOo should be default, they ship copies of all those libs in the monolithic source (gag) [00:53] NCommander: I have to run. Can you report your results as a comment to bug 220890? Thanks for testing it out! [00:53] Launchpad bug 220890 in python-apt "[hardy] software-properties-gtk doesn't recognize (nor know about) ports.ubuntu.com" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220890 [00:53] sbeattie, I also uploaded a screenshot [00:53] excellent, thanks! [00:54] I'm subscribed, so if any more testing needs to be done, hit me up [01:10] cjwatson: It's a copy of the older dailies. I didn't want to delete them in case someone missed them. It looks like no one has ... [01:57] EFAILTOUNDERSTANDUPGRADES: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/75073 [01:57] Launchpad bug 75073 in adept "missing conflicts or replaces: possible conflicts with Adept <<2.1 versions" [Undecided,Confirmed] === superm1|away is now known as superm1 [03:49] I ASK THAT THE UBUNTU DEVELOPERS REMOVE ALL PROGRAMS THAT USE MONO. [03:50] Joining an IRC channel and yelling it isn't way to get it done. [03:50] I ask that Mono trolls don't shout nor troll. [03:50] for me it is [03:50] microsoft could sue the devels [03:51] REMOVE IT [03:52] * Hobbsee requests that poopcheese does something constructive. [03:52] PLUS IT IS MADE MY NOVELL [03:52] YOUR MEAN [03:52] I didn't know she had one. [03:52] =/ [03:52] the caps lock key is not an Awesome Button [03:53] wgrant: I borrowed my mean to her. [03:53] poopcheese: mono will not be removed at this time. [03:53] WHY NOT [03:53] ssweeny: No, but it is CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL! [03:53] IT IS A PIG [03:53] RAOF: This is true. [03:53] poopcheese: and drop the caps. [03:54] SRY MY KEYBOARD IS LIKE THIS [03:54] poopcheese, you're free to apt-get remove mono and any programs that use it === Hobbsee changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [03:55] HAHA I DONT HAVE MONO ON MY COMPUTER IN FACT I USE WINDOWS XP WHICH IS MORE ADVANCED THAN LINUX AND UBUNTU [03:55] poopcheese: then why are you here? [03:56] to provide constructive criticism, obviously [03:56] ajmitch: you haven't seen the half of it... [03:56] Because with Windows you can entirely avoid .NET. Mhm. [03:56] I don't think I want to :) [03:57] Anyway, that was some nice pre-lunch entertainment. Have fun! [03:57] +z is a lovely mode... [03:57] hobbsee: You really want to still see his messages? :-) [03:57] ion_: i'll deop soon. or boot him. [03:58] ion_: but sure. he might actually become constructive. [03:58] well, that was interesting. [03:59] It becomes no fun if he can't troll. [03:59] I think we need a sign saying "you need this much IQ to join this channel", though [03:59] i'll have to leave then :'( [04:00] vorian: you can speak english, without capslock. you're ok... [04:00] yay! [04:03] * Hobbsee ponders the ethics of forwarding to ##psychiatric-help-required or something [04:14] slangasek: Are you around? [04:16] slangasek: mysql-dsfg-5.0 failed to build on both i386 and amd64, I'm pondering just giving them back since the testsuite errors look ... odd [04:19] is there a way to get ppa builds for port systems? [04:19] eg easy testing of all archs without uploading to the main archive? [04:24] PPAs are Xen, so it's limited to what Xen can do, from what I understand [04:24] and so far that i386 and amd64 [04:25] And lpia [04:26] ah, right [05:29] meh, launchpad is slow tonight === superm1 is now known as superm1|away [06:41] good morning [06:49] StevenK, where's the build log? === emma_ is now known as emma [07:44] can somebody moderate my mail on ubuntu-devel-announce? [07:47] is kubuntu-desktop broken for anyone else? [07:47] dholbach: done [07:47] cjwatson: thanks a lot [07:47] cjwatson: you're up very early [07:47] NCommander: yes. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/intrepid_probs.html [07:48] dholbach: couldn't sleep; about to go back and try again [07:48] * dholbach hugs cjwatson [07:48] oh yay, the output of britney [07:48] it looks like a few FTBFS are causing amd64 some grief [07:50] argg, a lot of edubuntu on that list :( [07:50] LaserJock: probably just due to kde [07:50] perhaps, I tried to clean up a bunch of that [07:50] I didn't know Ebuntu was Kubuntu based [07:51] It looks like python-qt4 is the holdup [07:51] it has some KDE components [07:51] I'll maybe get a chance to look at it more tomorrow [07:51] NCommander: it's Edubuntu not Ebuntu and it includes KDE-Edu [07:51] er, my bad [07:51] sorry, sorta late [07:51] It looks like python-qt4 failed [07:51] and then a bunch of packages got stuck behind it [07:52] we also have an edubuntu-desktop-kde meta package for KDE'ers [07:52] edubuntu is susposed to be deployable over a thin client, right? [07:53] that's a common use-case yes [07:55] I dunno, but GNOME seems kinda heavy to deploy to thin-clients, unless I'm mistaken that edubuntu is gnome based [07:55] well, it entirely depends on your environment [07:56] well, whats the best way I could get started to try it out? [07:56] for sure some people with not-so-great-networks/servers or with a lot of clients find it better to go with something lighter [07:56] we used to ship XFCE as well, but when it got moved to Universe we stopped [07:58] but people can install whatever DE they like with the thin clients, the Edubuntu addon CD just provides an educational layer on top [07:58] NCommander: trying out what? [07:58] edubuntu [07:59] I dunno if I'm explaining myself well [07:59] well, you can grab an .iso, burn it, and pop it in :-) [07:59] Why was Xfce moved to universe? [07:59] well, it's easier for people to work on it [08:00] I thought canonical offered support for Xubuntu, or did that cease at some point [08:00] they never did [08:00] it used to be to build a CD using the Ubuntu infrastructure it had to be in Main [08:00] Right. but they were able to fix that [08:01] but that's no longer the case, both Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio build from Universe [08:01] Is Edubuntu supported by Canonical? [08:01] yes [08:02] NCommander: Edubuntu has an IRC channel as well, on #edubuntu [08:02] Neat [08:02] I'm suprised though no other *buntu distros have shot up [08:02] how do you mean? [08:02] there's a bazillion of them on distrowatch ;-) [08:02] I know emgent was trying to get wmaker-ubuntu off the ground, and Fluxbuntu also been working [08:02] I mean offically on launchpad [08:03] well, it's rather difficult to build a derivative within the archive you're deriving from :-) [08:03] not impossible by any means, but the "easy" way is to fork off your own repo [08:04] Well, I think emgent was simply going to try and get a meta package into universe, then use the cd burner scripts [08:04] mhm [08:04] which is how I would roll any new distribution [08:04] Unless for some reason I needed packages that were unsuitable for the *verse [08:04] I know of at least 5 derivatives in Universe [08:05] Myth, Xfce, Studio [08:05] What are the other two? [08:05] Ichthux and Ubuntu ME [08:05] hello [08:05] heh, hi raphink [08:06] hi LaserJock :) [08:06] I didn't realize Ubuntu ME was that far off the ground yet, I thought it was still in conceptional stages. [08:06] hi raphink [08:06] hello jpds [08:07] morning jpds [08:09] LaserJock, once kfreebsd-i386 gets off the ground, I won't mind seeing an Ubuntu distribution ported to it (I've been keeping my eye on nexenta, but it seems to be struggling) [08:11] what does nexenta have to do with kfreebsd ? [08:11] just wondering [08:12] I don't like the Linux kernel [08:12] Linux without the Linux ;-) [08:12] I actually have a strong dislike for it [08:12] hehe I see ;) [08:12] (I ran NetBSD for years before I finally got sick of ports) [08:13] and darwing is dead, too [08:13] although you can still use macports [08:13] fink is alive and kicking [08:13] yes [08:13] I actually learned a LOT abotu Debian packaging through fink [08:13] ah ok [08:13] Mostly because I helped debug a rather nasty bug four or five years ago [08:13] And helped bring the i386-darwin port into the world before Intel OSX was released :-) [08:14] I use MacOSX, but I strongly dislike how I can't get my hands behind the polished stuff [08:14] I won't mind seeing a Debian/Darwin [08:14] at least not as easily as on linux [08:14] What I want is a kfreebsd designed system (jails :-)). [08:14] ok [08:14] Solaris just ... well, it plain sucks on laptops [08:14] but it rocks on servers [08:15] yeah [08:15] my server is running kfreebsd-i386 [08:15] Maybe if I get bored this weekend I'll bootstrap Xubuntu kfreebsd-i386 [08:15] :-) [08:15] * NCommander is smacked a few times with a tree [08:16] a Linux tree? [08:16] :-) [08:16] The freebsd kernel is actually available in Ubuntu [08:16] apt-get source freebsd [08:33] NCommander: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17093486/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.mysql-dfsg-5.0_5.0.67-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz [08:34] with Ubuntu 8.04.1 my computer keeps freezing so that the only solution is to turn it off or reset it. How does one go about figuring out what the cause of that is and collecting useful information to file a bug? [08:34] I have a hunch that it's firefox because it always seems to happen when I am using firefox, but that might just be because I use firefox more than other applications [08:35] StevenK, looks like the buildd had a seizure somewhere in there [08:36] NCommander: I'm pondering bashing the give back button [08:36] what's stopping you? [08:36] Fear of breakage [08:37] mdke: check your ram? [08:37] StevenK, how can be be broken worse? [08:37] StevenK, did it FTBFS with the same error on multiple architectures? [08:37] NCommander: Similar error [08:38] NCommander: IE, test suite failure on amd64 [08:38] However, i386 is a little more important since it builds Arch: all [08:38] is it a new upstream release or whatnot? [08:38] NCommander: Nope [08:38] what was the change? [08:39] lucas: ah, I'll try that, thanks [08:39] lucas: I hadn't thought that it could be hardware related [09:34] NCommander: Damn it, mysql failed the same way [09:34] StevenK, I'm looking at it [09:34] I can't figure out what changed [09:34] NCommander: I wonder if you have a machine faster than me to build it on [09:35] * NCommander grabs the soruce [09:35] This is the version in intrepid, right? [09:35] NCommander: Right [09:35] Ok, I'll see if I can get it to build [09:35] NCommander: palmer is no slouch, and it takes it nearly an hour to build [09:35] Well [09:35] I have a distcc cluster [09:36] -j10 ;-) [09:36] NCommander: It gives a log, I'd like to see the log [09:36] The testing log, right? [09:36] (I wasn't going to roll it in a pbuilder instance yet, so I can do some debugging) [09:37] Its almost as if your causing the connection thread to crash and burn [09:37] * NCommander looks at the changelog [09:37] It looks like the PIE hardening is what broke it [09:37] Yes [09:38] bah, I use dto run down this issue with m68k [09:38] Wow. A package that manages to build on HPPA, but fails on i386 and amd64.. That's a first (to me). [09:38] soren: Yes. [09:38] Ouch [09:38] Given the sorry state of hppa's compiler [09:38] What is this PIE hardening, and why did it break MySQL? [09:38] PIE stands for position independent code/executable [09:38] StevenK, ever program in ASM? [09:39] Oh, right [09:39] Its got a performance hit on i396 [09:39] *i386 [09:39] Now I get it, I just hadn't heard of it in terms of hardening [09:39] Yeah, that's a first for me [09:39] I mean, I get the theory [09:40] But Windows is completely position dependent [09:40] I"ve never heard as PIE as a hardening defense [09:40] Why do I have this feeling that it's SEGVing or something when it runs that test [09:40] StevenK, its probably a thread reaching an abend [09:40] But its got to be a compiler issue [09:40] PowerPC is PIE by default (amd64 too), and they're not blowing up [09:40] ER wait [09:40] Stupid quesiton [09:40] Is this failing on just i386? [09:41] Cause I'm compiling on amd64 ;-) [09:41] amd64 blew up too [09:41] Ok [09:41] good [09:41] What the... [09:41] BTW, mind doing me a favor as I hunt this down? [09:41] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17103261/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.mysql-dfsg-5.0_5.0.67-0ubuntu3_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz [09:41] Can you sponsor an upload into Debian? [09:41] The hppa builds shows lots of test failures, too, but doesn't seem to care. [09:41] WTF [09:41] Well [09:41] UGH [09:41] MY EYES [09:41] Haha [09:41] NCommander: I suppose [09:42] * Hobbsee notes this has nothing to do with her myspace page, either. [09:42] I'm an m68k buildd admin [09:42] I've sen funky failures [09:42] Perl 5.10 and linuxthreads [09:42] Yum [09:42] * StevenK tells his Sid chroots, "Update thyselves!" [09:43] Hobbsee: Twitch [09:43] * Hobbsee grins [09:43] StevenK, http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/codeblocks/codeblocks_8.02-1.dsc [09:43] StevenK: it's *lovely*! [09:43] As an aside, slangasek already took off running [09:43] Upstream shipping a debian folder [09:43] *shipped [09:43] * StevenK joins his fellow Steve in running away [09:43] Crap [09:43] Lost another DD [09:43] :-P [09:44] seb128 was going to do it, but his sid chroot "mysteriously" broke [09:44] Sounds ominious [09:44] * NCommander watches StevenK randomyl break [09:44] Seriously, how the hell does the hppa buildd not FTBFS [09:44] That just plain hurts [09:44] Haha [09:45] * NCommander looks at the harding patch [09:45] I swear [09:45] if this is because some idiot doesn't know how to apply -PIE, I'm going to hurt the security team [09:45] NCommander: -fPIE? [09:46] Well, a good source of segfaults is when -fPIE and -fnotPIE combine [09:46] By your powers combined, I am caption Segfault! [09:46] I ... WTF [09:46] Yes. By your powers combined, I'm Captain SIGFPE [09:47] The HPPA build did fail its test suite [09:47] Miserably [09:47] Oh. Dear. God. We channeled the same thing. [09:47] Doing. It. Wrong. [09:47] The servers were restarted 122 times [09:47] Hrm [09:47] Oh shit [09:47] I see the issue [09:47] I'm going to hurt the security team if I'm right [09:48] No fair huring kees. [09:48] Er, hurting [09:48] Er, ok [09:48] I see why it failed on hppa I think [09:48] Was the the same failure on amd64? [09:49] i386 failed in the subselect test [09:49] amd64 failed in ps_7ndb [09:49] it looks like its trying to call code from outside mysql that isn't PIE [09:50] Which would cause an instant segfault [09:50] Why would ps_7ndb pass on i386, and fail on amd64? :-) [09:50] And subselect passes on amd64 and fails on i386 [09:51] StevenK, its running the test suite [09:51] I think the MySQL test suite needs more kittens [09:51] We could simply back out the hardening_patch [09:51] binlog_killed_simulate [ skipped ] Test need debug binaries [09:51] Bah [09:51] Fixing this might be a plain nightmare [09:53] NCommander: In terms of with PIE-hardening? [09:53] Probably [09:53] ever look at mysql's codebase? [09:54] Nope. And I'd rather keep my eyes [09:54] * NCommander codes in cobol for fun sometimes [09:54] I perfer my sanity :-) [09:54] "Fun" you say [09:54] I also like x86 ASM [09:54] What messes with my head [09:55] Is I've seen x86 ASM thats more clear to me then your average perl script [09:55] My last job was as a Perl coder [09:55] * StevenK knows more about Perl internals than he cares to admit [09:55] "You shoot yourself in the foot, but six months later, you have no idea how you did it" [09:56] I had to fix a FTBFS deep within herny on m68k [09:56] That was wonderful [09:56] mostly because building perl was something like a 10 hour job [09:56] If you use a doorstep arch, it is [09:56] * StevenK hides [09:56] * NCommander crowbars StevenK [09:57] :-P [09:57] Hurd is a doorstep arch, we actually *gasp* released a few times [09:57] * wgrant clobbers StevenK with an m68k box. [09:57] wgrant, use an s390 one [09:57] Leaves a bigger mark [09:57] * StevenK counters with the ultrasparc he has lying around here [09:57] * NCommander uses slangasek's alpha [09:57] BHAHAHAHAHA [09:58] * StevenK has one of those, too [09:58] you know [09:58] if mysql passes its test suite [09:58] I'm going to be pissed as hell [09:58] I hate migrating bugs [09:58] What did you change? [09:58] nothing [09:58] But I have that funny feeling [09:58] that the PIE bug will appear differently on different machines [09:59] Ugh [09:59] ndb_alter_table [ disabled ] failed for some reason [09:59] O_O; [09:59] Haha [09:59] Well, now I know why hppa didn't actually "fail" [09:59] No, just 3/4 of the test suite was disabled [09:59] NCommander: I'm quite sure kees did a test build with PIE enabled before he uploaded it. Has anyone talked to him? [10:00] Well, I'm getting the feeling looking at the build logs we're dealing with a migrating bug [10:00] i.e., it might appear different places based on kernel version, compiler version, etc. [10:00] soren: That's why I'm retiscent to just upload a fix. It's 2am in $TZ, though [10:00] The quick fix is to removing the harding-wrapper [10:00] And let security figure out the FTBFS [10:01] But given the fact the test suite was timing out with -fPIE enabled [10:01] I dunno [10:01] That sounds like quite a performance hit [10:01] and at best, a minor security fix [10:02] and only really help if your using something that randomizes the address space to prevent a return-to-libc attack [10:02] I thought we already enabled address space randomization in Hardy [10:04] I can't say I know [10:05] But its ineffective expect on AMD64 [10:05]