[00:00] <apachelogger> ewww
[00:00] <apachelogger> atomic: almost nothing is
[00:00] <mhb> also I would associate the "security update" icon with a message like "your computer just exploded"... so aggresive
[00:00] <apachelogger> oxygen is like 5x tango
[00:00] <apachelogger> sizewise
[00:00] <atomic> i'm not saying you should consider using them, only brainstorming :D
[00:00] <apachelogger> mhb: well, for certain security udates that even applies
[00:00] <mhb> right, and we're not saying you're bad, just the icons :P
[00:00] <jtechidna> :P
[00:00] <apachelogger> like that ssh randomization issue :D
[00:00] <yuriy> mhb: not surprisingly, they look like the apport systray icon
[00:00] <atomic> well i am bad, but that's beside the point :P
[00:00] <yuriy> meeting time
[00:01] <Riddell> wait 10 minutes or move to here?
[00:01] <yuriy> ..or not
[00:01] <jtechidna> meeting time? On my internets?
[00:01] <jtechidna> or not?
[00:01] <Riddell> let's do it here
[00:02] <seele> Nightrose: ping
[00:02] <Nightrose> pong
[00:02] <Nightrose> thx seele :)
[00:02] <Riddell> good evening friends, meeting agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[00:02] <seele> :)
[00:03]  * apachelogger puts on the meeting hat
[00:03] <Riddell> I see we have a couple of memberships
[00:03]  * seele takes off the beer gnome
[00:03] <Riddell> blizzz about?
[00:03] <blizzz> here :)
[00:03] <Riddell> blizzz: time for a quick grilling. who are you and why do you want to be a kubuntu member?
[00:04] <blizzz> My name is Arthur Schiwon, i am a 23 year old student from Heidenheim/Germany. I started using Kubuntu 3 years ago and became member of kubuntu-de.org in 2006. This month i was appointed  community carer and am treasurer since several months. Beyond this, my regular tasks are editorial things and support, some promoting as well.
[00:04] <blizzz> I want to become a member, because to work in and with the community makes a lot of fun, further all the things around kubuntu and linux are highly interesting not only due to my hobby but also with my job-to-come when my study is finished.
[00:04] <blizzz> Also, i want to give something back, since I was helped to get over the first big obstacle when i started using linux without any knowledge (but windows). And the community touched my rl even deeper since i found my gf in there as well as friends.
[00:05] <Riddell> aww :)
[00:05] <apachelogger> eww!
[00:05] <apachelogger> I protest
[00:05] <apachelogger> he prepared
[00:05] <blizzz> i did some preperation :D
[00:05] <jtechidna> lol
[00:05] <apachelogger> grilling ain't no fun
[00:05] <seele> aww, open source fairy tales
[00:05] <neversfelde> best instructed
[00:05] <Riddell> blizzz: what does a community carer do?
[00:05] <seele> how long until she gave you root?
[00:06] <blizzz> Riddell: i am a contact person for people who want to help or join as well as for problem in between our community
[00:06] <blizzz> some kind of advisor and consultant so to say
[00:06]  * yuriy wonders what seele is getting at
[00:06] <jtechidna> yuriy: P.G. joke, methinks
[00:06] <yuriy> ooh you're my graduation year, except older
[00:06]  * seele puts the beer gnome back on
[00:07] <apachelogger> blizzz: you mention on your wiki page that you want to become motu - did you do any packaging yet?
[00:07] <Riddell> blizzz: how does the treasuring work?  where is the money kept?
[00:07] <blizzz> actually i did not right now, but i have this goal in mind
[00:08] <blizzz> Riddell: neversfelde and me have an account at a local bank.
[00:08]  * apachelogger diggs in his logs
[00:08] <blizzz> we report the movements and display at on our website and wiki
[00:08] <seele> blizzz: what do you use the money for?
[00:08] <apachelogger> seele: beer hopefully ;-)
[00:08] <yuriy> "Making first steps in KDE programming with python" <- blizzz: have you done anything so far?
[00:08] <neversfelde> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/spenden
[00:08] <devfil> apachelogger: lol
[00:08] <blizzz> currently only for our materials for boothes (linuxtag and likes)
[00:09] <Riddell> blizzz: how did FrOSCon go?
[00:09] <apachelogger> blizzz: do you think it is important for kubuntu to support kubuntu focused LoCos better? or is it just as well to have them as part of an ubuntu LoCo?
[00:09] <blizzz> yuriy: yes, see http://www.arthur-schiwon.de/scoreboard for screenshots
[00:10] <apachelogger> there is a typo in that url :P
[00:10] <blizzz> Riddell: very well, there were more than 1200 visitors and we had a lot of interesting people visiting the booth and we gave out a lot of cds
[00:10] <blizzz> apachelogger: yes, the c is a k
[00:10] <blizzz> ;)
[00:11] <Riddell> anyone able to advocate blizzz?  Nightrose?
[00:11] <neversfelde> me
[00:11] <neversfelde> blizzz is our alrounder, he is doing support, marketing, managing the german community and further on, he is promoting kubuntu e.g. on Linux Tag and FrOSCon. blizzz is active every day for years now, and we do not want to miss his work in the german speaking community.
[00:11] <Nightrose> having met and worked with blizzz I give him a solid +1
[00:11] <apachelogger> blizzz is a really cool guy
[00:11] <apachelogger> but I think he needs to sponsor more beer for poor motus :P
[00:11] <Nightrose> hehe definitely
[00:12] <blizzz> well, why haven't you been at froscon? there has been lots of beer... ;)
[00:12] <seele> +1 it's good to have active community members, especially at conferences
[00:12] <Riddell> +1 from me, seems like some great work going on
[00:13] <Riddell> yuriy?
[00:13] <Riddell> yuriy is asleep, but that's enough votes, welcome to membership blizzz
[00:13] <yuriy> +1 from me, support and everything is great, and getting involved in development too
[00:13] <yuriy> sorry Riddell
[00:14] <blizzz> cool, thank you all :)
[00:14] <seele> lol Riddell is in a hurry tonight
[00:14]  * jtechidna cheers
[00:14] <yuriy> congratulations blizzz
[00:14] <apachelogger> blizzz: congratulations
[00:14] <seele> welcome blizzz
[00:14] <Czessi> congrats blizzz
[00:14] <Riddell> nemphis: about?
[00:14] <Nightrose> welcome blizzz :)
[00:14] <neversfelde> Glückwunsch blizzz
[00:14] <nemphis> hi i'm Thomas David aka nemphis. i'm active in the german kubuntu community since 2006.
[00:14] <blizzz> *shakes hands* ;)
[00:14] <nemphis> i'm in the kubuntu-de.org community council and put a lot of efforts into building our community. beside that i'm maintaining the kubuntu-de.org wiki, the webteam and writing news. i also promoted kubuntu and the community on the froscon 2008 at the booth and with a talk at the kde devroom.
[00:14] <nemphis> i want to become a member of kubuntu, because this community and the distribution is just amazing and it makes a lot of fun to work together with the other. like blizz i want to give something back to kubuntu and push it forward to make it rock.
[00:15] <Riddell> nemphis: what does the kubuntu-de.org community council do?  and who else is on it?
[00:15] <Nightrose> nemphis: any intention to give more talks in the future?
[00:15] <nemphis> Nightrose: yes of course :)
[00:15] <apachelogger> ah right, I didn't get an answer...
[00:15] <apachelogger> nemphis: do you think it is important for kubuntu to support kubuntu focused LoCos better? or is it just as well to have them as part of an ubuntu LoCo?
[00:16] <seele> nemphis: what is the one thing you would like to improve in kubuntu above all else
[00:16] <nemphis> in the council currently are: Czessi, txwikinger, PTS, neversfelde and me
[00:17] <nemphis> were trying to coordinate the helpers
[00:17] <nemphis> and we are the contact to the ubuntu community
[00:18] <nemphis> seele: i want to see a better integration of the cool features in the kde desktop.
[00:18] <nemphis> the ubuntu desktop seems to have some features earlier.
[00:19] <Riddell> any testimonials from anyone?
[00:19] <neversfelde> nemphis is our webteam, he looks after the german speaking, forum and wiki with less help since we moved to our own server. Without him, we had to close the forum years ago. Alongside, he writes news and is always ready to be the editor for other authors. Support is matter of course.
[00:19] <blizzz> nemphis is a very cool person and one of our tech guys. He makes our services (like wiki and forum) go round. As one of our kubuntu-de.org CC members he has a high reputation and is a vital and important part of our community. If i am worth becoming member, he is even more.
[00:19] <Nightrose> he did good work at the booth at froscon and gave a talk with Czessi that was well received
[00:19] <nemphis> apachelogger: i think kubuntu focused locos are important to give the users better support and promote kubuntu
[00:19] <Nightrose> +1 from me
[00:20] <Nightrose> (hoping he will give more talks in the future)
[00:20] <seele> +1 for webadmins.  can't live without them!
[00:20] <Riddell> +1 here too
[00:20] <yuriy> +1 for keeping a core part of the community up and running and other contributions
[00:20] <Riddell> great, welcome in nemphis
[00:21] <nemphis> Yay \o/
[00:21] <nemphis> thank you all!
[00:21]  * claydoh gives late +1's all around
[00:21] <jtechidna> welcome nemphis
[00:21] <apachelogger> welcome nemphis
[00:21] <Nightrose> welcome nemphis :)
[00:21] <blizzz> congrats nemphis :)
[00:21] <yuriy> welcome nemphis
[00:21] <seele> grats nemphis
[00:21]  * claydoh apologizes for the tardiness
[00:21] <neversfelde> congrats nemphis
[00:21] <Riddell> onto the agenda
[00:21] <Czessi> congrats nemphis
[00:21] <Riddell> What needs done before Feature Freeze?
[00:22] <jtechidna> EVERYTHING
[00:22] <claydoh> welcome nemphis blizzz
[00:22] <jtechidna> actually, pretty much everything I set out to do has been done
[00:22] <apachelogger> jtechidna: EVERYTHING is no answer!
[00:22] <jtechidna> :P
[00:22] <Riddell> I've got dist upgrade mostly working, will upload tomorrow morning
[00:22] <jtechidna> coolness
[00:22] <yuriy> userconfig... jtechidna?
[00:23] <seele> what's the status on adept 3?  it looks like there is still functionality missing
[00:23] <jtechidna> Oh right, userconfig...
[00:23] <apachelogger> mornfall: ^
[00:23] <yuriy> seele: what in particular?
[00:23] <Riddell> I'd like to patch it to launch software-properties
[00:24] <seele> yuriy: let me switch over to intrepid but whatever updates as of today were missing stuff.. brb
[00:24] <jtechidna> I don't know if userconfig can be finished in time...
[00:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: is software-properties actually ported to Qt 4?
[00:24] <yuriy> Riddell: would be really nice if libpythonize worked and we could integrate software-properties right in
[00:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: was never anything else
[00:24] <apachelogger> ah, cool
[00:25] <apachelogger> jtechidna: maybe cut some features for now
[00:25] <yuriy> jtechidna: can you send me an email of what still needed to get done? I think you pointed out some things earlier, but I don't remember
[00:25] <seele> yuriy: editing sources, and the category navigation to find packages is really confusing
[00:25] <yuriy> seele: the tags?
[00:25] <seele> yeah
[00:25] <devfil> Riddell: have you seen http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/12574/ ?
[00:25] <apachelogger> jtechidna: we need something to replace kuser
[00:25] <apachelogger> that said, kuser needs to be removed
[00:25] <jtechidna> ok, so userconfig
[00:25] <apachelogger> it is dangerous
[00:25] <yuriy> Riddell: I think userconfig can get done in the next couple weeks, but not before FF
[00:26] <jtechidna> it's mostly worky
[00:26] <Riddell> devfil: that's not really possible
[00:26] <jtechidna> I spent last weekend transitioning it over to .ui files
[00:26] <devfil> Riddell: I know, as we use .kde instead of .kde4
[00:26] <jtechidna> but I still need to make/intregrate the ui files for modifying/adding groups
[00:26] <seele> devfil: 4.2 doesnt come out until january 2009
[00:27] <jtechidna> and delete users and delete groups dialogs
[00:27] <seele> 3.5.10 will be available via backports, no?
[00:27] <seele> jtechidna: use a .ui file please!
[00:27] <devfil> seele: 3.5.10 is already in intrepid
[00:27] <yuriy> seele: via updates even for hardy. ScottK-laptop is trying to get it in
[00:27] <jtechidna> If we had a week or two more we could probably get userconfig in a usable state
[00:27] <apachelogger> devfil: backports
[00:27] <apachelogger> there is no 3.5 in intrepid
[00:27] <yuriy> jtechidna: so we'll probably just need to write up an FFe at that point
[00:27] <apachelogger> well, excet for kdelibs and some selected base distributions
[00:27] <Riddell> yuriy, jtechidna: ask for a FF exception when it's ready then, just make sure it gets lots of testing first
[00:28] <Riddell> lots of bugs to fix, network manager seems to be being trickt
[00:28] <yuriy> kdebuetooth4 "WIP" done?
[00:28] <Riddell> and being able to install qt would be nice
[00:29] <Riddell> yuriy: it's packaged and in
[00:29] <jtechidna> Jockey is done, but not integrated with systemsettings like todo says
[00:29] <yuriy> command line installer?
[00:29] <seele> did anyone work on the system settings menu?
[00:29] <Riddell> yuriy: install-package is in
[00:29] <Riddell> seele: nope
[00:29] <yuriy> ubiquity?
[00:29]  * yuriy is just going down the list
[00:30] <Riddell> yuriy: apachelogger did some fixes, but I don't think it's pykde yet
[00:30] <apachelogger> no, just fixed the icons
[00:30] <jtechidna> which is a shame because it runs as root and will use plastique
[00:30] <Nightrose> Riddell: do you want me to close that brainstorm idea?
[00:30] <Nightrose> I can do it if wanted
[00:30] <Riddell> Nightrose: sure, with a polite explanation
[00:30] <Nightrose> ok
[00:30] <yuriy> jtechidna, Riddell: maybe we can change default qt style to oxygen?
[00:31] <Nightrose> will do after the meeting
[00:34]  * jtechidna doesn't know how to change that
[00:34] <Riddell> yuriy: yes that would make sense so long as it didn't break qt apps running under gnome where oxygen isn't installed
[00:34] <Riddell> jtechidna: it's fiddly
[00:36] <Riddell> shall we include kgrubeditor?
[00:36] <claydoh> how solid is it?
[00:36] <Riddell> I'm all for it since using the live CD as a rescue disk is still an important use case in my opinion
[00:36] <seele> it hasn't been widely tested
[00:36] <claydoh> will new users muck things up if they make an error?
[00:36] <jtechidna> I used it to install some bootgraphics
[00:36] <seele> if we can get people to test it, konstantinos is very active and will fix anything that comes up
[00:36] <claydoh> ./me hasn't tried it
[00:36] <jtechidna> seemed to work without frying grub
[00:36]  * apachelogger thinks we should get it in
[00:36] <apachelogger> get some testing
[00:37] <devfil> Riddell: it seems to be really good
[00:37] <seele> +1 for going in, but it really needs some QA
[00:37] <apachelogger> I only noticed one issue which was kgrubeditor dying when kubuntu-grub-splash* is installed
[00:37] <Riddell> ok, let's get it in toot sweet and ask for testing
[00:37] <claydoh> +1 then
[00:37] <ScottK> Would someone who's good with backtraces please look at Bug 261694 and give me suggestions.  I think there are two good ones in there now.
[00:37] <Riddell> ahem, meeting :)
[00:38] <Riddell> Change icon/label default in some applications to [icon] Label?
[00:38] <Riddell> seele?
[00:38] <seele> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidDefaults?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=icon%2Blabel_layout_samples_1024x768.pdf
[00:39] <seele> the doc has screenshots of default size with current default and then icon + label
[00:39] <seele> i think there were two apps that didn't fit all in, one was ktorrent, and the other was an app of no consequence
[00:39] <seele> all the apps show default icons at 1024x768 though, there is only hidden icons when they are not full size in some apps
[00:39] <seele> this was a suggestion made by nuno in oxygen, he thinks [icon] Label looks better, and i agree
[00:40] <yuriy> I think icons only in konqueror and any app where the toolbar is pretty much full, and text below icons where the toolbar is more sparse
[00:40] <yuriy> like dolphin and okular
[00:40] <seele> an option would be for very full apps to do icons only.  right now we have apps with icons only, icons + label, and icons / label
[00:40] <seele> so this would provide some consistency
[00:40] <atomic> ktorrent's toolbar needs a sane set of default icons anyhow, it still looks rough compared to other kde 4.x-ified apps
[00:41] <seele> there is a bug in konqueror that resizes the location bar if you set the icon + label, but it is fixed in trunk
[00:41] <echidnaman> bleh, internets died
[00:41] <Riddell> seele: is there a rationale other than it looks better? (or even a rationale why it would look better?)
[00:41] <seele> Riddell: in some applications you gain ~10 pixels in vertical space
[00:42] <seele> which is good for people on laptops running wide-screen laptops because the average res is 1280x768
[00:42] <seele> 10px could give you an extra line of text
[00:42] <seele> i think it is also easier to read the labels
[00:42] <claydoh> I could go with  either, myself, I use 1024x768
[00:42] <seele> they are more consistently spaced, where icons / labels give you varying space between the labels
[00:43] <claydoh> but I agree on it being easier to read
[00:43] <apachelogger> certainly looks easier on the eye
[00:43] <seele> nuno is going to push it to happen upstream, so it's likely it will happen anyway
[00:43] <seele> it's just if we want to do it before 4.2 comes out or not
[00:43] <yuriy> I think text below looks better and is easier to read. somehow makes the text feel more associated with the icon
[00:44] <apachelogger> hm
[00:44] <apachelogger> I must say for a chinese text below probably looks better
[00:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: why are you using chinese?
[00:45]  * apachelogger is all crazy about asian languages these days
[00:45] <seele> oh, speaking of translations, nuno tested spanish and german and said most everything fit as well (forgot to check it myself though)
[00:45] <apachelogger> anyway, I have the theory that text next to the icon looks good for people who are used to read that way
[00:45] <seele> spanish and german tend to be about 30% longer.  most of the apps fit in <1024 fine, so at full screen german and spanish will still fit
[00:46] <apachelogger> to-down readers will find it less awesome though
[00:46] <Riddell> I suspect umbrello won't fit, but it doesn't with text under anyway
[00:46] <apachelogger> seele: french should be considered there as well
[00:46] <seele> apachelogger: unless french is longer than spanish or german, it doesnt matter because it will fit
[00:46] <seele> afaik spanish and german are the longer of western languages
[00:46] <apachelogger> french tends to be longer sometimes
[00:47] <atomic> tried finnish?
[00:47] <claydoh> kmail is crowded if there are spam filter icons from the spam wizard
[00:47] <apachelogger> finnish is also a killer sometimes
[00:47] <apachelogger> anyway
[00:47] <apachelogger> if we want to do that
[00:47] <apachelogger> we should do it very very soon and get tons of feedback
[00:47] <Riddell> I agree
[00:47] <Riddell> let's turn it on for the next alpha and see if people prefer it
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> I'd probably go back to text under icons, but it's not that big of a deal for me
[00:48] <apachelogger> ACK
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> can I switch the topic back to the todo list quickly?
[00:49] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ok
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> The kcm randr item
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> "make sure it works"
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> what exactly does that mean?
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> I know in 4.0.x it crashed kwin every time you tried to use it
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> and it tried to change the screen resolution too
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> but in 4.1 it doesn't do any of that
[00:50] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: sounds like it works then :)
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> there are a few ui quirks but it does work
[00:50] <Riddell> well, it should still change the screen resolution
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> I mean, when you loaded the kcm module it'd try to change the screen res on ya
[00:51] <Riddell> hah, nasty
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it's all good now
[00:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please harvest launchpad for bugs regarding that kcm
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> except for some ui quirks
[00:51] <apachelogger> maybe it still causes some issues on certain graphic setups
[00:51] <Riddell> we should ask what's happening with bullet proof X
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I did that when 4.1 was released actually
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> I'll mark the item done on the todo list
[00:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ok, then go ahead and update the status of that item
[00:52] <Riddell> Hardy upgrade, to prompt or not to prompt?
[00:52] <Riddell> I believe that ubuntu won't prompt for upgrade when intrepid is released, as is usual with LTS
[00:53] <seele> how much space does installing 4.1 on top of 3.5 hardy take up?
[00:53] <apachelogger> seele: it will replace most of it anyway
[00:53] <seele> apachelogger: it will uninstall 3.5 apps?
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> I wouldn't either. People who would be interested in the stuff intrepid offers would most likely know about Intrepid already
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> and would update themselves
[00:53] <apachelogger> there is no 3.5 in intrepid
[00:53] <Riddell> it'll upgrade them to 4.1 apps for the most part
[00:53] <Nightrose> if ubuntu doesn't prompt we shouldn't either imho - especially with the switch to kde 4
[00:54] <apachelogger> well
[00:54] <apachelogger> we are leaking an LTS
[00:54] <claydoh> but what about any leftovers from 3.5? would that cause any problems
[00:54] <apachelogger> which leads to the question can we become LTS while ubuntu is not?
[00:54] <apachelogger> s/become/get
[00:54] <claydoh> or would they be broken?
[00:54] <seele> i agree with Nightrose, switching from 3.5 to 4.1 is more than upgrading software
[00:54] <Riddell> right, ubuntu will have hardy to next LTS upgrade, which we won't
[00:55] <seele> claydoh: kde3 apps run in kde4 so it will be fine.  we have some 3.5 apps in intrepid atm
[00:55] <seele> amarok and a few other things
[00:55] <JontheEchidna> Konversation^
[00:55] <apachelogger> well
[00:55] <apachelogger> no prompt
[00:55] <apachelogger> because, not all apps are ported
[00:55] <apachelogger> and thos which are, are not in 100% perfect shape
[00:55] <coreymon77> konversations getting there
[00:55] <coreymon77> they are working on it
[00:55]  * JontheEchidna is glad on that
[00:55] <apachelogger> but, I think we should talk to the technical board about getting LTS for 9.04 and then prompt for upgrade
[00:56] <yuriy> where are we?
[00:56]  * yuriy was afk for a bit
[00:56] <coreymon77> JontheEchidna: not as much as i am, once its ported to kde4, that means no more macports for me
[00:56] <Riddell> Hardy upgrade, to prompt or not to prompt
[00:56] <seele> yuriy: hardy upgrade
[00:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm pretty sure that's not possible
[00:56]  * claydoh votes no prompt
[00:56]  * JontheEchidna votes no prompt
[00:56] <yuriy> I think that since Kubuntu Hardy is NOT an LTS, it shouldn't be special and prompt
[00:56] <apachelogger> well, in this case I would suggest we just prompt for 9.04
[00:56] <apachelogger> even without LTS
[00:56] <Riddell> claydoh: then what happens when 8.04 becomes unsupported?
[00:56] <yuriy> that is, not special meaning it should prompt like every other release
[00:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: 8.04 to 9.04 isn't a supported upgrade path, it likely won't work
[00:57] <apachelogger> well
[00:57] <claydoh> Riddell: good qustion, one i can't answer
[00:57] <Riddell> we /could/ investigate making it a supported upgrade I suppose
[00:57] <apachelogger> then we have no choice
[00:57] <apachelogger> is it worth the hassle?
[00:58] <seele> i dont think it's a good idea unless we can migrate user data from kde3
[00:58] <apachelogger> oh
[00:58] <apachelogger> that is a very good point
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> kde3 user data should migrate automagically to kde4, shouldn't it?
[00:58] <Riddell> seele: we can
[00:58] <seele> if the upgrade gets rid of all the kde 3.5 apps, NOTHING will work in kde 4.1
[00:58] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yep
[00:58] <seele> JontheEchidna: sortof
[00:58] <yuriy> seele: some of it does get migrated nicely
[00:58] <seele> eh, then i must have bad luck
[00:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: in that little time?
[00:58] <apachelogger> I am not sure
[00:58] <seele> i always have to reconfigure all of my accounts
[00:58] <apachelogger> + we barly get feedback about upgrades
[00:59] <jjesse> even on kubuntu-users?
[00:59] <seele> being able to import 3.5 wallet in to 4.1 is only useful if we tell users they have to do that
[00:59] <claydoh> lol
[00:59] <apachelogger> I don't watch kubuntu-users
[00:59] <apachelogger> but there are certainly no bug reports about it
[00:59] <jjesse> you should there's all kinds of fun there
[00:59] <seele> or if we even do it for them
[00:59] <apachelogger> seele: it is all automagic
[00:59] <apachelogger> kde4 uses .kde
[00:59] <apachelogger> so everything will be forced to upgrade configurations
[00:59] <apachelogger> which doesn't work in some cases
[00:59] <claydoh> kmail and amarok2 didn't migrate cleanly for me
[01:00] <apachelogger> like if the icon set was manually set to crystalsvg it will not change to oxygen
[01:00] <seele> apachelogger: none of that worked for me when i copied my 3.5 .kde to a 4.1 only install
[01:00] <apachelogger> claydoh: amarok2 is not default for exaclty that reason
[01:00] <apachelogger> seele: on intrepid?
[01:00] <Nightrose> claydoh: amarok 2 will have a db update script by final release
[01:00] <seele> yeah
[01:00] <yuriy> could the dist-upgrader at least make a backup of .kde?
[01:00] <seele> i had to go an find my kwallet file and import it
[01:00] <apachelogger> seele: this is no good news
[01:00] <yuriy> it should probably do that anyway on every release
[01:00] <apachelogger> yuriy: should not
[01:01] <apachelogger> .kde contains mails
[01:01] <apachelogger> which tends to use quite some space
[01:01] <Riddell> yuriy: that's tricky, there might be a lot of user accounts and .kde can get very large
[01:01] <seele> *cough*10GB*cough*
[01:01] <apachelogger> same for album covers of amarok and the amarok collection
[01:01] <apachelogger> maybe we should provide a setting for that at some point
[01:02] <apachelogger> and implement such a feature in the preinst of kdelibs
[01:02] <apachelogger> but definitely not on by default
[01:02] <Riddell> .kde/share/config would be easier
[01:02] <Nightrose> my .kde folder is 44mb and my .kde4 33mb currently
[01:02] <apachelogger> yeah, but most of these data aren't worth anything without the associated apps/*
[01:02] <Nightrose> *440
[01:02] <apachelogger> like custom icon sets
[01:03] <apachelogger> or mails
[01:03] <apachelogger> anyway
[01:03] <seele> Nightrose: do you use imap or pop for mail?
[01:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think we should prompt for 9.04 and make 8.04 -> 9.04 supported
[01:03] <Nightrose> seele: i used to - but now nope
[01:03] <claydoh> +1
[01:03] <Riddell> apachelogger: it's an interesting idea, I'll make enquiries and see what would need to happen
[01:04] <apachelogger> ok
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> If it's possible, +1
[01:04] <seele> so decision is deferred until Riddell hears back?
[01:04]  * apachelogger is pretty sure that currently kde3 -> kde4 will end in a big explosion configurationwise
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> Actually
[01:05] <seele> if we wait long enough, most people will migrate themselves ;)
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> I installed Intrepid while saving my home partition
[01:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: fedora already did it and said they had no problems
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> which has stuff from like gutsy on there
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> I had no problems
[01:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: I heard kmail is causing a lot of problems
[01:05] <seele> i swear, it's only me who has problems
[01:05] <apachelogger> and I really wouldn't want to mess with user's mails unless I know the upgrade will work
[01:05]  * JontheEchidna wasn't using kmail until kmail4, so he didn't have problems
[01:05] <apachelogger> they might want to kill us if that goes wrong
[01:05] <Nightrose> dunno how it is behaving now
[01:05] <Riddell> kmail worked perfectly for me I'm glad to say
[01:06]  * Nightrose had problems with kopete back in 4.0
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> we need more testing :(
[01:06] <apachelogger> hm
[01:06] <seele> Riddell: do you have pop and sent mail?
[01:06] <claydoh> I tried dropping my kmail configs/folders onto my intrepid laptop
[01:06] <claydoh> and I had to recreate all my accounts
[01:06] <Riddell> seele: imap and sent mail
[01:07] <claydoh> my mails (pop) were fine
[01:07] <seele> i had problems with reindexing some folders for the pop account
[01:07] <apachelogger> while Riddell is aggreagating information about 8.04 -> 9.04, I will try to get a squad for configuration upgrade testing
[01:07] <claydoh> my hardy desktopis still in a coma :(
[01:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: let's ask the qa team what their upgrade tesing plans are, and make sure kde 3 to 4 is a strong part of that
[01:07] <apachelogger> if we can't make the 8.04 -> 9.04 jump easily we need to do the best with what we have
[01:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes
[01:08] <Riddell> Translations of KDE programs in Launchpad
[01:08] <Riddell> not sure who's item that is
[01:08] <Nightrose> i added it for apachelogger
[01:08] <Riddell> what's the issue?
[01:08] <Nightrose> basically we had a lot of problems with translations in launchpad
[01:08] <apachelogger> launchpad
[01:09] <Nightrose> and they seem to be rather useless if upstream provides good translations
[01:09] <apachelogger> a) I don't see the use of importing translated content into it
[01:09] <Nightrose> so causing more harm than good
[01:09] <apachelogger> b) the new content doesn't exactly messure up with WA
[01:09] <apachelogger> bug 106772 is around for more than a year
[01:10] <apachelogger> intial cause was, once again, a launchpad import error
[01:10] <Riddell> WA?
[01:10] <apachelogger> it caused wrong translations
[01:10] <apachelogger> I then walked through launchpad manually , which is, btw, awful and proposed fixed strings
[01:10] <apachelogger> which are now sitting there as proposed for months
[01:11] <apachelogger> and the affected team is not capable to approve them so that we get that issue fixed
[01:11] <apachelogger> another one is bug 203349
[01:12] <apachelogger> which affects loads of applications and all languages
[01:12] <apachelogger> now the problem really is in this report we see that people get pissed off
[01:12] <Nightrose> ^ upstream got lots of bug reports about that....
[01:12] <apachelogger> seriously
[01:12] <ScottK> So how do we make language packs without Launchpad and get them on the CD?
[01:12] <apachelogger> KDE has language packs
[01:12] <ScottK> So just use those where we can?
[01:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: can we do that?
[01:13] <Riddell> not really, any translation files get automatically put through launchpad
[01:13] <Nightrose> to me it just seems to be a dublication of work that causes loads of problems
[01:14]  * Nightrose would _really_ love to know what the benefit of translating in launchpad is
[01:14] <Nightrose> *duplication
[01:14] <apachelogger> Nightrose: it's easy to do
[01:14] <apachelogger> which then results in QA problems if the teams don't take it serious
[01:14] <Nightrose> hmm yea - besides that...
[01:14] <apachelogger> like in the first bug I presented
[01:14] <Nightrose> right
[01:15] <Riddell> it makes translations possible for people not involved with the free software community (companies and governments)
[01:15] <apachelogger> well, this makes sense for small special applications, which are not part of the KDE main distributions
[01:15] <Riddell> so if a country comes to us and says they want to put Kubuntu on all their computers but it needs translated into their language first, pointing them at KDE svn, firefox l10n, GNU etc really doesn't work for them
[01:16] <apachelogger> well, so it would be an LP -> upstream -> kubuntu process
[01:16] <apachelogger> but having upstream -> lp -> upstream -> lp -> kubuntu seems rather pointless to me
[01:17] <apachelogger> if the quality messures up to KDE's high standards then they will be glad to include it I guess
[01:18] <apachelogger> if not we can always get the language packs from LP and fill the gaps (without default installation, since they didn't meet KDE's standards)
[01:19] <Nightrose> is there anyone we can talk to to at least fix those really annoying bugs that apachelogger pointed out?
[01:23] <Nightrose> since upstream is getting annoyed by it and users as well since it is not getting fixed :/
[01:24] <Riddell> jtv is the launchpad translations maintainer
[01:26] <seele> i put that on there, but it concerns him too
[01:26] <apachelogger> oh, btw, people, please add a @SIG@ at the end of your meeting entries
[01:26] <apachelogger> otherwise we don't know who wrote the entry :)
[01:26] <Riddell> seele: what's the issue?
[01:26] <Nightrose> ok I will get in touch with him as soon as I can
[01:26] <Nightrose> if noone else wants to
[01:26] <seele> the show dashboard widget is missing from the panel, i think JE is going to put it back on there
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> hope he's not on vacation like everybody else in ubuntuland :P
[01:26] <seele> also, what widgets should we put on the desktop?  right now we only have the file view and that's kindof boring
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> It's already in there in bzr
[01:26] <seele> JontheEchidna: ok
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> we need at least another default-settings release before Intrepid
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> probably before feature freeze
[01:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's easy enough, shall I do that tomorrow?
[01:27] <JontheEchidna> sure, sounds good to me
[01:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I don't think default-settings additions really count as feature
[01:27] <atomic> seele: trash on the desktop, because it wastes space in the panel
[01:27] <apachelogger> nah
[01:27] <apachelogger> how about a clock?
[01:28] <seele> i dont think that makes sense since the plasma desktop doesnt support file manipulation very well
[01:28] <apachelogger> KDE is clock obsessed, so we should probably reflect this ;-)
[01:28] <seele> lol
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> we could put it on the right like the vista sidebar thingy
[01:32] <seele> the clock still has rendering issues unless they've been fixed in trunk
[01:32]  * apachelogger didn't notice any
[01:32] <seele> it tends to randomly resize text
[01:32] <Nightrose> notes and the dictionary?
[01:32] <claydoh> how about the 2-row task manager?
[01:32] <seele> if you configure it with say, the date and time zone, when you relog it resizes the text funny because it tries to fit everything within a specified container
[01:32] <seele> Nightrose: notes is a good one
[01:32] <jjesse> i've found the task manager never saves it shape/size at all
[01:32] <seele> i was thinking weather, but that would require the user to configure it, we couldnt figure out what town they were in magically
[01:32] <Nightrose> seele: yea that happens here as well
[01:32] <JontheEchidna> weather isn't in main, and probably can't be promoted to such by tomorrow anyway
[01:32] <jjesse> seele: could you start w/ the location they are setting for timezone?
[01:32] <jjesse> for weather
[01:32] <apachelogger> seele: we can determine the country
[01:32] <apachelogger> which is already something
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> where do we get photos?
[01:40] <claydoh> would be a good demonstration I think
[01:40] <claydoh> thats the tough part
[01:40] <claydoh> developers' mugshots?
[01:40] <seele> ryanakca: three might be too many for wide screen monitors.. the folder view and a picture take up a lot of space
[01:40] <seele> the picture widget i'm hesitant to add because i'm not sure how obvious it is on how to configure
[01:40] <apachelogger> well
[01:40] <seele> when you add the widget yourself, you get a note that says "drag pictures on to the frame to add" which is really useful
[01:40] <apachelogger> let's just add notes
[01:40] <ryanakca> seele: ah, okies
[01:40] <seele> but if you have a default image, people might think its just a picture on their desktop and not a configurable frame
[01:40] <seele> apachelogger: agreed
[01:40]  * apachelogger thinks about getting something more kubuntuish for 9.04
[01:40] <atomic> a picture of puppies
[01:40] <apachelogger> like an introducation video via plasmoids
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> holy crap, lag
[01:40] <Nightrose> maybe a news ticker set to display kubuntu.org news?
[01:40] <Nightrose> ask the oxygen guys
[01:40] <Nightrose> i am sure they have something nice
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> there isn't a newsticker plasmoid in 4.1.x that works
[01:40] <apachelogger> what is with the one in kdenetwork?
[01:40] <apachelogger> broken?
[01:40] <seele> Nightrose: there's a news ticker widget?
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> pretty much
[01:40] <Nightrose> yes
[01:40] <apachelogger> :S
[01:40] <Nightrose> at least my add widget dialog says so ;-)
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> the plasmoid itself displays as a black dot
[01:40] <seele> is it in extragear?  i dont see it in the list
[01:40] <apachelogger> oh
[01:40] <seele> er, whatever they call extragear now
[01:40] <Nightrose> seele: no idea
[01:40] <seele> plasma-extras
[01:40] <apachelogger> kdeplasma-addons
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> and it has this rectangley thing
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> and the text just doesn't give a crap and scrolls across the whole screen
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> lol
[01:42] <claydoh> picture fram can do slideshows
[01:42] <apachelogger> I think news ticker is a bad idea anyway
[01:42] <seele> it doesn't appeal to everyone
[01:42] <apachelogger> there are people who ain't have any intarwebs access :P
[01:42] <seele> (but i want for myself!)
[01:42] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: meh :(
[01:42] <Nightrose> too bad
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> looks quite bad even if it "works"
[01:42] <ryanakca> last I used it, it crashed regularly... but that was a month ago :)
[01:42] <jjesse> wow seriously lag tonight
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: me too
[01:42] <apachelogger> <3 lag
[01:42] <apachelogger> it's the server I think
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> meh
[01:42] <apachelogger> anyway
[01:42] <apachelogger> what do we do?
[01:43] <apachelogger> just notes or notes + picutr frame with some weird content?
[01:43] <apachelogger> *picture
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> where do we get content?
[01:43] <seele> File View + Notes
[01:43] <apachelogger> just package it up
[01:43] <seele> no picture frame
[01:43] <apachelogger> the pics don't need to be too big
[01:43] <Riddell> seele: file view being the Desktop one that's currently there?
[01:43] <seele> Riddell: yeah
[01:43]  * apachelogger also prefers filewlivew + notes
[01:43] <apachelogger> *fileview
[01:43]  * apachelogger can't type anymore
[01:43]  * JontheEchidna prefers folderview + notes too
[01:44] <Nightrose> seele: not set to the home directory?
[01:44] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do you know how to add that to default settings?
[01:44] <atomic> JontheEchidna: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=puppies&l=cc&ct=0
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> yeah, quite easy
[01:44] <seele> Nightrose: i was just thinking which directory it should be set to
[01:44] <jjesse> notes and file view for me
[01:44] <seele> we should try and get away from the Desktop folder since the concept is obsolete in kde4
[01:44] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: fancy doing that before I upload k-d-s then?
[01:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: oh, btw, please add a readme for that
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> I just nuke my test dummies, account, copy the default plasma-appletsrc over, make changes accordingly and quit plasma to save
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> readme for what?
[01:44] <Nightrose> seele: agreed
[01:45] <seele> is firefox still configured to save to the Desktop folder?
[01:45] <Nightrose> seele: and people who still want it can set it up themselves
[01:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: how to do that in a way that it works on all resolutions properly
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: set the panel width to 9000 seems to work pretty well
[01:46] <apachelogger> seele: that is an ubuntu spec
[01:46] <apachelogger> the xdg-download-folder is ~/Desktop
[01:46] <apachelogger> for ubuntu being a windows user distro :P
[01:46] <apachelogger> downloading to desktop is totally 90's IMHO
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> wallpaper autoadjusts
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> panel scales down well enough, just not up
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> so as long as people don't have horizontal resolutions of over 9000 it's all good
[01:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: but how about plasmoids?
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> I haven't tested with any plasmoids other than the default ones in the panel which seem to cope with different resolutions ok
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> and folderview on the desktop
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> which copes ok too
[01:47] <apachelogger> well folderview is left top
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> yeah, pretty easy
[01:47] <apachelogger> that makes it fairly easy to deal with :P
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> anything else would be hard
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> come to think of it
[01:47] <apachelogger> anyway, you just do some magic :P
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> oh god what did I get myself in to
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> lol
[01:47] <Nightrose> hehe
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> well, I could make sure it all fits in 1024x768
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> but we might be better off just sticking with folderview
[01:49] <Riddell> it's getting late
[01:49] <apachelogger> ah
[01:49] <apachelogger> one last thing
[01:49] <apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[01:49] <apachelogger> the 2 icons in the lower bar are broken
[01:49] <apachelogger> someone please fix that :)
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> as the only plasmoid on the desktop
[01:49] <Riddell> nixternal knows all about the wiki headers
[01:49] <Riddell> ryanakca had something to say
[01:51] <Riddell> or maybe he didn't :)
[01:51] <ryanakca> Kubuntu's new website has a masthead were we currently stick the latest headline... I've received some comments that we should better use that piece of real estate... any comments on how we should use it?
[01:51] <ryanakca> Riddell: sorry, was only half paying attention, didn't have a speach prepared :)
[01:51] <apachelogger> dating agency!
[01:53] <ryanakca> Also, anybody who's willing to help out with the website is more than welcome, I sent the ML a request for help with things to do in July :)
[01:53] <seele> ryanakca: there is ~60 pixels between the kubuntu label and the blue header that should be reduced
[01:54] <apachelogger> ryanakca: maybe link to the latest developer blog?
[01:54] <seele> ryanakca: it should be approximately the same amount of space that is between the bottom part of the blue header and the top of the free download box
[01:54]  * apachelogger thinks that using it for the latest headline is the best thing to do though
[01:54] <apachelogger> if just our news would be better looking
[01:54] <apachelogger> looking into that though :)
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> would tomorrow be too late to late to get an update for plasmoid-lancelot in?
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> (e.g. when is feature freeze?)
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> whee, lag
[01:54] <ryanakca> Ok, someone had also suggested sticking a catch phrase to make people go ``Oh wow, that looks interesting, I wanna read more''... what's the opinion on that? Try it or stick to the headline?
[01:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it was one hour ago
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> ...
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> that sucks
[01:55] <apachelogger> ryanakca: what would that phrase be for example?
[01:55] <JontheEchidna> think it could squeak by somehow?
[01:55] <apachelogger> unless it has to do withsomething similar to a dating agency slogan I don't think that's gonna work ;-)
[01:55] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yeah, just do it before slangasek wakes up :)
[01:55] <ryanakca> apachelogger: okies
[01:55] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what's to be sponsored?
[01:55] <atomic> "Now with 100% more puppies"
[01:55] <Riddell> we've always lacked a decent slogan
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> bug 261602
[01:56] <apachelogger> hm
[01:56] <apachelogger> for the next meeting everyone gets stoned
[01:56] <apachelogger> we need a slogan :P
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> lol
[01:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: use revu
[01:56] <ryanakca> Riddell: does Kubuntu have a marketting team? I know Ubuntu does, but methinks they focus mainly on Ubuntu :)
[01:56]  * apachelogger gets a headache from manually creating debdiffs where revu would automagically do it
[01:56] <Riddell> ryanakca: nope
[01:57] <apachelogger> ryanakca: wanna create one?
[01:57] <ryanakca> apachelogger: sure, if you wanna help :)
[01:57] <seele> whoa, Riddell, you were at the DAM meeting in Portland in 2005?
[01:57]  * seele wonders why she doesn't remember that
[01:57]  * ryanakca looks at the website TODO, just a sec
[01:57] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I even lead the stuff if you want me to, I miss the marketing stuff a lot :)
[01:59] <apachelogger> Does anyone else wanna join the marketing team?
[01:59] <ryanakca> Is anybody interested in helping create a feature tour, or will we just take Ubuntu's and theme it / change the screenshots/text to suit our needs?
[01:59]  * claydoh needs to run, gotta go to the store for the Mrs.
[01:59] <Riddell> seele: am I so insignificant to your memories? :)
[01:59] <apachelogger> lol
[01:59] <apachelogger> ryanakca: would we need an all different one?
[01:59] <seele> Riddell: no, but getting to see you 4 times over the past year has just dimmed the previous years ;)
[02:00] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I don't think so, but if we're just going to rip Ubuntu's, we should at least help them make it :)
[02:00] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: uploaded lancelot to revu, should appear in a few minutes
[02:00] <Riddell> our features are quite different from ubuntu's, it would be good to have our own one
[02:00] <apachelogger> ryanakca: we rip their OS and don't help them make it
[02:00] <apachelogger> well
[02:00] <ryanakca> Riddell: apart from just changing the colors / screenshots / text?
[02:01] <apachelogger> ryanakca: send a mail to the list
[02:01] <apachelogger> I am sure there is someone who has time to do that
[02:01] <ryanakca> apachelogger: will do
[02:01] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=plasmoid-lancelot
[02:02] <Riddell> ryanakca: if nothing else, I'll do a feature tour of sorts for the 8.10 release announcement
[02:02] <ryanakca> Last but not least, is anybody interested in making some download banners? emunkki made some nice ones last month, but more are always accepted :)
[02:02] <ryanakca> Riddell: ok
[02:03] <Riddell> download banners?
[02:03] <ryanakca> s/download/countdown/g
[02:03] <apachelogger> ryanakca: you have to change that question
[02:04] <ryanakca> apachelogger: ?
[02:04] <apachelogger> does anyone know someone who is somewhat artistic and who would want to help kubuntu?
[02:04] <ryanakca> haha
[02:04] <apachelogger> or does anyone have a gf/bf who happens to be an artist?
[02:04] <seele> apachelogger: nuno might be bribed to create a header image since we are going to alpha his icon + text idea
[02:05]  * apachelogger notes that his artist is pretty uninterested in kubuntu :(
[02:05] <Riddell> there was a chap who offered to do artwork for the last release announcement
[02:05] <apachelogger> we really should get hold of professional artists, they are far too hard to get
[02:05] <Riddell> entirely forget his name though, I'll look it up tomorrow
[02:06] <apachelogger> so, let's adopt Nuno and Riddell will lookup J.D.'s name
[02:06] <apachelogger> makes 2 aritsts
[02:06]  * apachelogger is happy
[02:06] <apachelogger> *artists
[02:06]  * ryanakca grins
[02:07] <Riddell> any other business
[02:07] <apachelogger> I demand more sleep
[02:07] <Riddell> bed awaits, and it's plenty late in CET land
[02:07] <ryanakca> none here...
[02:07] <apachelogger> but I think that is off topic
[02:07] <Nightrose> 3am here...
[02:07] <Nightrose> sleeeeep! ;-)
[02:08] <Riddell> thanks all, sweet dreams
[02:08] <Riddell> volunteers for minutes welcome
[02:08] <Nightrose> nini :)
[02:08]  * seele waves
[02:08] <apachelogger> nini
[02:08]  * apachelogger goes testbuilding qt4 :P
[02:08] <ryanakca> Night to everybody on the other side of the pond
[08:23] <mornfall> seele: All that's been planned for 3.0 is there -- as declared, beta has been a feature-freeze point.
[08:24] <mornfall> seele: Yes, functionality is missing, but that's life -- it's either missing functionality or nothing at all.
[09:13] <\sh> apachelogger: quassel 0.3.0 works like a charm...I backported the stuff to hardy+ppa kde4/qt4 libs, and the upgrade of the core works too...should I upload quassel 0.3.0 to the kde4 ppa?
[09:55] <Riddell> \sh: why not upload to intrepid?
[09:55] <\sh> Riddell: already done :)
[09:56] <\sh> Riddell: with 0.3.0 the 0.2.0 core can't be used anymore, and 0.2.0 clients can't connect to 0.3.0 cores...so I thought it's a good idea to push this to hardy + ppa too
[09:57] <Riddell> get it into backports
[09:58] <\sh> the last time I tried to a get a backport of claws-mail, the report wasn't even touched...
[09:58] <\sh> ScottK: can you take care of it?
[10:14] <taupter> Riddell: ping
[10:26] <Riddell> hi taupter
[10:26] <taupter> Riddell: Hi, man. :) Need your help.
[10:27] <taupter> Riddell: There's a but that's biting me in 4.1,
[10:27] <taupter> Riddell: there's already a patch commited to 4.1 branch,
[10:27] <taupter> Riddell: but it's not in ppa packages or intrepid (afaik)
[10:28] <taupter> Riddell: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=840377
[10:28] <taupter> Riddell: Without this patch you close konqueror windows, but the processes simply don't die,
[10:29] <taupter> Riddell: wasting RAM and degrading performance as you use your session.
[10:29] <Riddell> I thought we did include that
[10:30] <taupter> Riddell: Well, I'm using hardy with ppa packages and I have to SIGTERM some konqueror processes from time to time. 8-|
[10:30] <Riddell> it'll be in 4.1.1 next week anyway
[10:30] <taupter> Riddell: Oh the release schedule. I forgot it.
[10:31] <taupter> Riddell: I still need to send kmldonkey-kde4 2.0.4 to you.
[10:31] <taupter> Riddell: (updated, linking with libplasma2, as I promised)
[10:32] <taupter> Riddell: Shall I send it? How?
[10:35] <Riddell> taupter: sure.  got a web server you can put it on?
[10:36] <taupter> Riddell: Wait a second. Let me check how apache is behaving here.
[10:40] <taupter> Riddell: Try http://taupter.homelinxu.org:9980/kubuntu
[10:42] <taupter> Riddell: Sorry. http:/taupter.homelinux.org:9980/kubuntu
[10:42] <taupter> Riddell: What's wrong with my hands today? http://taupter.homelinux.org:9980/kubuntu
[10:45] <smarter> hi there
[10:46] <smarter> good news: the kvkbd dev is happy with me porting his app to Qt4, and he wants us to continue working on it in a vcs :)
[10:46] <Riddell> taupter: "Connection to Server Refused"
[10:46] <smarter> how hard is it to get an account in KDE SVN?
[10:46] <Riddell> smarter: yay
[10:46] <Riddell> smarter: not at all
[10:46] <smarter> cool
[10:46] <Riddell> smarter: launchpad is even easier
[10:47] <Riddell> http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Get_a_SVN_Account
[10:47] <taupter> Riddell: Ugh. Maybe my isp is blocking it. No firewall rules here.
[10:49] <taupter> Riddell: Man, it's not really big at all. Less than 260kB (dsc, diff and orig.tar.gz). Let me send it by mail.
[10:49] <Riddell> ok
[10:55] <taupter> Riddell: Sent.
[11:09] <ScottK> \sh: If someone can test it, I can take care of approving it.
[11:10] <\sh> ScottK: well, /me is a tester ,-) the core works as expected on hardy...and the client will be tested on my hard install later this day
[11:10] <Riddell> taupter: not received it
[11:10] <\sh> ScottK: I'll file a request then...and ping you
[11:10] <smarter> Riddell: can I put you in the field "Who supports this request?" for my account request? :)
[11:11] <taupter> Riddell: I sent it to jr at riddell dot o r g.
[11:11] <Riddell> smarter: sure
[11:11] <smarter> thanks
[11:11] <Riddell> taupter: Jriddell
[11:12] <taupter> Riddell: jr at jriddell dor o r g
[11:13] <taupter> dot orf
[11:13] <taupter> dot org
[11:13] <taupter> Argh! My fingers.
[11:13] <jpds> gpg --recv-keys 0xDD4D5088 && gpg -k 0xDD4D5088
[11:35] <apachelogger> I am seriously tired
[11:35] <apachelogger> *yawn*
[11:51] <ScottK> If anyone still remembers how qt3/kde3 works, Bug 261694 has some additional detective work done on it.  I'd appreciate it if someone has a look.
[12:18] <JontheEchidna> Good morning
[12:20] <Riddell> and what a lovely morning it is
[12:21] <JontheEchidna> Ok, so the notes plasmoid
[12:21] <JontheEchidna> are we just going to screw over everybody non-English and put an English welcome to Kubuntu note in the plasma-appletsrc?
[12:22] <Riddell> it does have an intro text, we should patch the code to change that
[12:23] <Riddell> ScottK: I take it a rebuild doesn't work?
[12:23] <Riddell> ScottK: is there an upstream author of kicker-taskbar-compiz who can be contacted?
[12:24] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I'll put the notes plasmoid under the folderview plasmoid, then we can make/put the patch in when we package 4.1.1
[12:25] <JontheEchidna> (under since we have to keep screen res in mind
[12:26] <Riddell> under being lower on the screen?  or lower in the z access?
[12:26] <JontheEchidna> lower on the screen
[12:26] <Riddell> phew
[12:26] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[12:30] <Riddell> Nightrose: can't you convince someone to have the amarok on screen display in a corner by default?  middle of the screen is overly distracting
[12:31] <Nightrose> Riddell: I can propose it yes - but no promisses
[12:32] <Riddell> thanks :)
[12:33] <Nightrose> no prob :)
[12:33]  * apachelogger thinks amarok should use a fancy tray popup like banshee
[12:33]  * apachelogger also thinks that compiling qt takes way too long
[12:34] <JontheEchidna> dude
[12:34] <JontheEchidna> KNotify plasmoid for KDE 4.2
[12:34] <JontheEchidna> makes fancy tray popups of any knotification popup
[12:35] <JontheEchidna> we should use it like, everywhere for 9.04
[12:35] <apachelogger> *nod*
[12:35] <Riddell> got a pointer to it?
[12:36] <JontheEchidna> uh, I believe it's called the notifier plasmoid in svn. (Not new device notifier, mind you)
[12:36] <JontheEchidna> let me see if I can find the author's blog
[12:36] <apachelogger> it's in playground still
[12:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: IIRC it implements a kind of libnotify dbus interface for KDE
[12:37] <apachelogger> and knotify sends all it's stuff to the plasmoid in case it is registered @ the almighty dbus server
[12:38] <JontheEchidna> http://dimsuz.wordpress.com/2008/07/
[12:39] <JontheEchidna> we could even put an "upgrade now" or "restart now" button on upgrade or reboot notifications
[12:40] <JontheEchidna> anyway, back to plasma-appletsrc stuff for me...
[12:41] <apachelogger> oh cmon
[12:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: how come you're compiling qt?
[12:41] <apachelogger> 4.4.1 for hardy
[12:41] <apachelogger> and one of the 300 patches broke -j5
[12:41] <Riddell> ah, nice, but aye, qt is a beast to compile
[12:42] <Nightrose> Riddell: ssend an email to the dev list (needed to bring something else up anyway) - let's see what others think
[12:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: not so much with a nice cluster :)
[12:42] <apachelogger> and a fast hard disk of course
[12:43] <Nightrose> sent even
[12:47] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: pushed r193 of k-d-s, ready for release
[12:48] <JontheEchidna> grr
[12:48] <apachelogger> don't forget about text-next-to-icon
[12:49] <JontheEchidna> where did the "open office craps up plasma" bug in LP go
[12:49]  * JontheEchidna found several dups
[12:49] <JontheEchidna> heh, searching I've found a few more
[12:52] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  where to place riddell....
[12:52] <ScottK> Riddell: No, the rebuild didn't work.
[12:53]  * Hobbsee puts Riddell in the middle of the atlantic ocean.
[12:53]  * Riddell starts swimming
[12:54] <Hobbsee> you'd better, as land's very far away!
[12:56] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: bug 262134
[12:57] <seele> mornfall: it's not much of a choice between old broken software or software that isn't quite done yet
[12:57] <ScottK> \sh: I only see backports  bugs marked confirmed/triaged, so I didn't know about the one you filed before until I just saw it now.
[12:58] <\sh> ScottK: you mean the claws-mail ?
[12:58] <ScottK> Yes.
[12:58] <ScottK> Ncommander just marked it to Triaged after he retested it so I just came across it.
[12:59] <ScottK> It's now waiting for an archive admin to do the backport.
[13:00] <Nightrose> Riddell: looks like it is going to be moved to the top center by default
[13:04] <Riddell> Nightrose: hugs to amarok!
[13:04] <Nightrose> :)
[13:06] <smarter> Riddell: could you please trigger a rebuild of webkitkde?
[13:07] <apachelogger> [14:04:31] <apachelogger> he should install ubuntu-dev-tools if not already
[13:07] <apachelogger> [14:04:34] <apachelogger> and run buildd webkitkde intrepid retry
[13:07] <apachelogger> [14:04:48] <apachelogger> oh and he should have logged into lp in firefox :)
[13:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^
[13:07] <apachelogger> if you don't have a script lying around somewhere
[13:07]  * Riddell gives it a shot
[13:09] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: log ping
[13:09] <ryanakca> apachelogger: we going to bother with the marketting team or just spruce up the promo material in the kubuntu member's branch?
[13:10]  * apachelogger already got too many team memberships :)
[13:11] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I think we can go with a branch in kubuntu-members for now
[13:11] <Nightrose> Riddell:
[13:11] <apachelogger> moving it to another team isn't exactly a big deal anyway
[13:11] <Nightrose> SVN commit 853911 by seb:
[13:11] <Nightrose> Default the OSD to the middle top of the screen, instead of the center
[13:14] <Riddell> awooga
[13:14] <Riddell> Retrying: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkitkde/0.1~svn080826-0ubuntu1/+build/701576 (amd64).
[13:14] <Riddell> Unable to request retry on amd64.
[13:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: it doesn't like me
[13:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: you are logged into LP in firefox?
[13:15]  * apachelogger is wondering whether one needs to have firefox open
[13:15] <JontheEchidna> are the stars aligned in the proper order?
[13:15] <smarter> apachelogger: it probably uses the cookie file
[13:15] <apachelogger> we should just implement access to KDE's cookie char :P
[13:16] <apachelogger> *jar
[13:16] <Riddell> apachelogger: yep
[13:16] <Riddell> firefox is open
[13:16]  * Riddell does it the old fashioned way, through a browser
[13:16] <smarter> or ask jpds ;)
[13:17] <apachelogger> jpds: that thing is broken for master Riddell, go make it use kded :P
[13:17] <jpds> apachelogger: He may be the Master, but I am the Doctor.
[13:18] <apachelogger> Doctor Who? :P
[13:18] <ScottK> jpds: You're the one that uploaded this kicker-taskbar-compiz.  What do you think about the crashes with KDE 3.5.10?
[13:18] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: hi!
[13:19] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: hi
[13:19] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: don't know if you heard, but we're going to try and put kgrubeditor in intrepid. hopefully we don't find any bugs that can't get fixed
[13:19] <jpds> apachelogger: Where does Konqueror keep it's cookies?
[13:19] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: i've got some notes on minor tweaks here and there, but two major things
[13:20] <jpds> ScottK: Dunno, I don't use that applet anymore.
[13:20] <smarter> jpds: /var/tmp/kdecache-user I think
[13:20] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: is gethotnewstuff broken or kgrubeditor broken?  i install a background image and it doesnt show up in the list
[13:20] <Riddell> jpds: /home/jr/.kde/share/apps/kcookiejar/cookies
[13:20] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: second, the password part of the wizard is still a bit confusing, i dont know if that should wait until 1.0 since it could be more work than just tweaking labels
[13:20] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: gethotnewstuff doesn't get focus when used via the standalone version
[13:21] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: also install kubuntu-grub-* it is a splashscreen package which causes kgrubeditor to crash
[13:21] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: and kgrubeditor doesn't like having /boot on a seperate partition when it comes to splashscreens
[13:22] <Tonio_> hi there
[13:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: have you seen that lancelot k menu ?
[13:22] <Tonio_> I tested it, and I must say it is pretty good
[13:22] <Artemis_Fowl> whoa. lots of things to think about..
[13:23] <jpds> smarter, apachelogger, Riddell: OK, I'll add cookie support to ubuntu-dev-tools.
[13:23] <Artemis_Fowl> first of all, gethownewstuff seems to be dead indeed
[13:23] <jpds> Konq*
[13:23] <Artemis_Fowl> actually it must be a kgrubeditor issue
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: did you test it with the intrepid packages? :D
[13:23] <Artemis_Fowl> I think it is easily fixed
[13:23]  * apachelogger hands jpds a cookie and some milk
[13:24]  * JontheEchidna thinks we should consider lancelot-as-default in intrepid+1
[13:25] <smarter> why not for intrepid?
[13:25] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I compiled it locally here
[13:25] <JontheEchidna> hmm, probably should have brought this up at the meeting last night...
[13:26] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: already packaged ? great ;)
[13:26] <apachelogger> Tonio_: it's in universe
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> :)
[13:26] <Tonio_> apachelogger: fast packaging :)
[13:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that is discussion stuff for post-intrepid :P
[13:26] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: do you want IRC messages about this stuff or bugsin launchpad?
[13:26] <Artemis_Fowl> launchpad better
[13:26] <seele> kk
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: actually I had gotten an svn snapshot in before the release so it was just a matter of updating when 1.0 came around
[13:27] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hhe, oki ;)
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> we got 1.0 in 2 hours after feature freeze >.>
[13:27] <jpds> Riddell: Are you logged into Launchpad from Firefox?
[13:27] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: don't forget that 4.2 should come out with a new menu....
[13:28] <apachelogger> unlikely raptor makes it for 4.2 IMHO
[13:28] <jpds> Riddell: If so, try: rm -f ~/.lpcookie.txt and try to retry again.
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> raptor is sadly vaporwareish :(
[13:28] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: were you able to import your source into launchpad yet?
[13:28] <Riddell> jpds: ooh, that fixed it
[13:29] <jpds> Riddell: Yep, you had a cookie which didn't have your perms (non-loggined)
[13:29] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: yes. I successfully moved into trunk and then reported a question to the LC branch owners to re-import it
[13:30] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: the only thing I don't like in it is the text sometimes overring the arrows...
[13:30] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but that's promissing
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> yeah, at least we'll get a much improved program for intrepid+1
[13:31] <JontheEchidna> The contacts integration is quite cool
[13:31] <apachelogger> oh
[13:31] <apachelogger> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/kgrubeditor/trunk
[13:31] <apachelogger> cool
[13:33] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I think I already know why GetHotNewStuff malfunctions
[13:33] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I'll fix it today hopefully and then we could talk a bit more about the password thing
[13:36] <smarter> wow, okular integration in Konqueror is awesome
[13:36] <smarter> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidDefaults?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=icon%2Blabel_layout_samples_1024x768.pdf
[13:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: update-notifier-kde starts "adept installer" instead of "adept_installer"
[13:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: currently fixing
[13:38] <apachelogger> it is adept installer
[13:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's ment to
[13:38] <apachelogger> Tonio_: adept 3 has only one binary
[13:39] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: ok cool
[13:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: but if you want to fix apport from depending on adept-notifier that would be welcome :)
[13:39] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kgrubeditor/ubuntu :)
[13:39]  * jpds wonders if kcookiejar has support in Python's "cookielib" module.
[13:40] <apachelogger> probably not
[13:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: then should do kdesudo -c "adept installer"
[13:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: fixing apport then :)
[13:41] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: what's this for? :|
[13:42] <Riddell> Tonio_: it runs  KProcess.startDetached("kdesudo", ["adept", "updater"])
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: then it should work
[13:42] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: the debian packaging ;)
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just saw that adept 3 doesn't install for me
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: that may expain :)
[13:42] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: ah ok :)
[13:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was on a fresh install, so there might be a little problem on that side....
[13:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: simple dist-upgrade won't replace adept2
[13:44] <apachelogger> I think the new adept package needs to conflict&replace the old ones
[13:44] <apachelogger> or mayb there is some rdepend which keeps it from upgrading
[13:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: should apport recommend update-notifier-kde or just nothing ?
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: new adept already conflicts/replaces all old adept components
[13:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: apport-qt should recommend update-notifier-kde
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay
[13:46] <Riddell> Tonio_: mythtv-database is the other rdepend if you fancy fixing that
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect apport is in bzr no ?
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: I may not have access to the branch
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: lemme look
[13:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: ubuntu-core-dev
[13:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: so I have :)
[13:51] <txwikinger> Morning folks
[13:53] <jjesse> morning txwikinger
[13:53] <jjesse> morning all :)
[13:53] <txwikinger> Morning jjesse
[13:53] <JontheEchidna> morning
[13:53] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ah almost forgot it
[13:54] <ScottK> jpds: I'm guessing this kicker-taskbar-compiz is useless in Intrepid.  Would you please file a removal bug?
[13:54] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I was talking with sebas the other day through kde-devel mailing lists
[13:55] <jpds> ScottK: Will do.
[13:55] <ScottK> Thanks.
[13:55] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: we had a discussion around what was thought to be the only hindrance from creating a grub editor earlier
[13:55] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: a.k.a. how AutoMagic is handled
[13:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: ok if I remove kio-apt?  doesn't seem useful without a kde 4 version
[13:55] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: and it turned out to be a mere misunderstanding
[13:56] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: AutoMagic is not that evil :) actually KGRUBEditor handles it perfectly right now
[13:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep
[13:57] <sebas> Artemis_Fowl: Well, it ignores it and tries to not get in the way.
[13:57] <Artemis_Fowl> sebas: yes
[13:57] <sebas> SO your grubeditor is an editor for non-default grub settings
[13:57] <sebas> Perfect would be (as I said) to manipulate the magic lines where appropriate
[13:57] <sebas> SO you don't get "cannot edit *this* entry"
[13:58] <Artemis_Fowl> yes, actually it is an editor for standard GRUB (standrad GRUB commands)
[13:58] <Artemis_Fowl> sebas: where do you get "cannot edit *this* entry"?
[13:59] <sebas> I didn't get it, but that's what I understood your editor does.
[13:59] <Artemis_Fowl> well, no
[13:59] <sebas> I.e. if you use it, you'll lose automatically set up grub
[14:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: if you're looking for things to do porting amarok to use install-package would be lovely :)
[14:00] <jpds> ScottK: I subsribe ubuntu-archive?
[14:00] <ScottK> Yes.
[14:00] <ScottK> That or maybe Riddell just removes it now.
[14:00] <Artemis_Fowl> sebas: what do you mean with "automatically set up grub"? the AutoMagic lines?
[14:01] <sebas> Yes, what apt does with update-grub
[14:01] <Artemis_Fowl> sebas: they don't get removed
[14:01] <sebas> IMO, a grub editor on Kubuntu should read the automagic lines and create entries based on that using update-grub
[14:01] <sebas> Artemis_Fowl: Right, they are still there.
[14:02] <sebas> So you have update-grub to edit half of the settings, and your tool to add more that won't be covered by update-grub
[14:02] <Artemis_Fowl> sebas: yes. that's what it should do under Kubuntu indeed
[14:02] <sebas> That's not perfect, it's merely "doesn't break things horribly"
[14:03] <Artemis_Fowl> probably I could extend it someday to support these update-grub settings
[14:03] <sebas> That would be cool
[14:03] <jpds> ScottK: bug #262252 and bug #262249 filed.
[14:03] <ScottK> jpds: Great.
[14:04] <Artemis_Fowl> sebas: that wouldn't be difficult but there are some more important issues for the time being
[14:05] <sebas> Probably. :)
[14:05] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: the GetHotNewStuff issue is solved
[14:05] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: also the focus issue?
[14:06] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: yes
[14:06] <apachelogger> cool
[14:06] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: i'm gonna test the kubuntu-grub-* issue now
[14:06] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: the package is the same in hardy?
[14:07] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:07] <apachelogger> didn't change since dapper :)
[14:07] <Artemis_Fowl> ^^
[14:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: mythtv-database uploaded too
[14:08] <Riddell> Tonio_: groovy
[14:11]  * Artemis_Fowl reboots in Kubuntu
[14:14] <seele> gah, lost my phone
[14:18] <Hobbsee> uh oh
[14:20] <Riddell> call it?
[14:22] <Artemis_Fowl> btw shouldn't the channel message be updated? the meeting is over...
[14:23] <seele> Riddell: i tried, that's how i figured out i really lost it :-/
[14:24] <Riddell> Artemis_Fowl: go ahead
[14:24] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: ?
[14:25] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: change the topic if you so desire
[14:25]  * Artemis_Fowl has no clue how this is done...
[14:26] <seele> gah
[14:26] <Artemis_Fowl> lol
[14:27] <Artemis_Fowl> wtf does WTB and PLZKTHX mean? ^^
[14:27] <seele> want to buy, please, ok, thanks
[14:27]  * seele plays too many video games
[14:28] <Artemis_Fowl> lol
[14:29] <Artemis_Fowl> IMO I thought only chan ops were able to change the message or something like this...
[14:29] <Hobbsee> Artemis_Fowl: depends on the modes set.
[14:29] <apachelogger> depends on the channel settings
[14:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think I am too scared to apply for core-dev
[14:31] <apachelogger> what if they ask completely mean questions :S
[14:31]  * apachelogger shudders
[14:32]  * Artemis_Fowl misses the sudo stuff
[14:32] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: they might not.
[14:33] <apachelogger> ...but if they do...
[14:33] <apachelogger> oh, qt4 for hardy is already at make install
[14:33] <JontheEchidna> yay
[14:33] <Hobbsee> then we'll crisp the mutilated apachelogger up on the bbq, and eat him..
[14:34] <apachelogger> holy bbq, batman!
[14:35]  * apachelogger hids in the batcave
[14:38] <Artemis_Fowl> damn
[14:38] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: bad connection?
[14:38] <Artemis_Fowl> in Kubuntu what's KDEPATH?
[14:39] <Artemis_Fowl>  /usr/lib/kde4?
[14:39] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: no
[14:39] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: in hardy that
[14:39] <apachelogger> in intrepid /usr
[14:39] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: bad xorg configuration
[14:39] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: damn. I have to recompile...
[14:40] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: ccmake and change the CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX
[14:40] <Artemis_Fowl> yy. forgot it :)
[14:40] <apachelogger> or just rerun cmake with -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/whatever
[14:40] <apachelogger> or use cmake-gui
[14:40] <apachelogger> or edit the cmakecache files manually ;-)
[14:40] <Artemis_Fowl> lol
[14:40] <Artemis_Fowl> any other alternatives?
[14:41] <apachelogger> you could move the files manually from your wrong path to the right one
[14:41] <apachelogger> or move them from CMAKE_BINARY_DIRECTORY to the right path
[14:42] <Artemis_Fowl> ouch
[14:42] <Artemis_Fowl> crash
[14:43] <Artemis_Fowl> oh. thread issue
[14:47] <Artemis_Fowl> seems as if some splash image from the package cannot be decompressed and crashes
[14:48] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: submitted a bug with minor changes/suggestions, but we should talk about the password management at some point
[14:48] <seele> probably dont need to do it immediately though
[14:50] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ok
[14:50] <Artemis_Fowl> aha
[14:50] <Artemis_Fowl> found you
[14:50] <seele> youre not on the cc list for your own bugs?
[14:50] <Artemis_Fowl> it's KUBUNTU_splashscreen_real_colors_01.xpm.gz
[14:51] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: dunno for sure
[14:54] <seele> i dont see you listed on the bug, is all
[15:07]  * Nightrose makes apachelogger apply for core-dev and KDE eV at the same time
[15:07] <Nightrose> :P
[15:08] <apachelogger> now that would be really too much :S
[15:09] <Nightrose> see
[15:09] <Nightrose> then apply for core-dev now
[15:09] <Nightrose> only half as bad
[15:09] <Nightrose> ;-)
[15:28] <apachelogger> hm
[15:28]  * apachelogger starts polishing up his wiki page
[15:54] <Riddell> nemphis: added you to kubuntu-members, you can add your blog to planet if you want, @kubuntu.org and @ubuntu.com e-mail should set itself up in a couple of days
[15:55] <smarter> members get @kubuntu.org address too?
[15:55]  * smarter learnt something today :p
[15:55]  * JontheEchidna wonders if he has a @kubuntu.org email address
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> heh, well the message hasn't bounced back yet :P
[16:04] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes/2008-08-27  minuts
[16:18] <smarter> huzzah!
[16:19]  * smarter just got a kde svn account
[16:19] <jjesse> huzzah
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> [11:19:19] <aseigo> JontheEchidna: oh, and you know .. if you're extra clever you might not need too .. you could always have a small command line app that returns a translated phrase
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> [11:19:33] <aseigo> JontheEchidna: and then have that as the notes text in the default config file using [$e] on the entry
[16:21] <Riddell> smarter: playground/accessibility would seem the place, if that exists
[16:21] <smarter> Riddell: there's already a 15 month old kvkbd in playground/utils
[16:22] <smarter> *months
[16:22] <smarter> do you think I can just remove the old one from utils and add the new one to accessibility?
[16:24] <Riddell> smarter: yeah
[16:24] <smarter> okay
[16:32] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I don't know what to write :|
[16:33] <Nightrose> apachelogger: :/   what do you have so far?
[16:33] <Riddell> smarter: kvkbd readded to seeds
[16:33] <apachelogger> Nightrose: a crappy wiki page ;-)
[16:33] <smarter> Riddell: groovy
[16:33]  * apachelogger also just realised that Riddell is his only main sponsor
[16:33] <apachelogger> oh ScottK also sponsored one package :)
[16:33] <Nightrose> hehe
[16:33] <Nightrose> apachelogger: shamelessly copy from other applications? :P
[16:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: this shows something about our need for more main people
[16:34] <Nightrose> heh see there you got a good start
[16:34] <apachelogger> probably true
[16:35] <smarter> heh, that kio-bookmarks thing seems interesting
[16:35] <smarter> but the name is boring :p
[16:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: did dirk give an ETA for the tarballs?
[16:35] <Nightrose> yay for finally being able to kinda read backtraces \o/
[16:36] <apachelogger> Nightrose: reading them isn't all that difficult, fixing the underlying issues is :P
[16:36] <Nightrose> :P
[16:36] <Riddell> apachelogger: not that I've heard
[16:37]  * apachelogger should write a script to check in a 5 minutes loop whether the tarballs are up
[16:37] <Nightrose> nope you should write your core-dev app ;-)
[16:39]  * apachelogger starts with int main(){} :P
[16:40] <Nightrose> *lol*
[16:40]  * Riddell would have expected ruby from apachelogger 
[16:41] <Riddell> seele: I don't suppose you know the magic config file option for move toolbar text?
[16:41]  * apachelogger is trying to become also a c++ hacker, to get khelpcenter fixed :)
[16:42] <seele> Riddell: move position?  or configure display?
[16:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: change it in systemsettings->appearance->style->2nd tab
[16:43] <apachelogger> then you know ;-)
[16:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: rewrite khelpcentre in ruby?
[16:43] <Nightrose> ScottK: /me voices her support for getting tvbrowser in - I really miss that package and unfortunately the unofficial repo for it doesn't update anymore since hardy release (no hardy packages :( )
[16:44] <Nightrose> ScottK: of course I respect your decission if it is too late now
[16:44] <Nightrose> but it would be great if it can get in
[16:44] <seele> apachelogger: does that override apprc options?
[16:47] <Riddell> seele: not if the app is implemented correctly (which I note kate isn't)
[16:47] <Riddell> there was a blog about that recently
[16:47] <ScottK> Nightrose: The main thing is I need some good solid reason it's more important than the dozens of other packages sitting on REVU.
[16:48] <seele> Riddell: so that means going through every ~/.kde/share/config/apprc file and changing the option?
[16:48] <seele> option(s) for each toolbar class/group
[16:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: that would be too easy
[16:50] <Nightrose> ScottK: it is the only good tv schedule program on linux i know that has german tv stations, has lots of very nifty features and is widely used as far as i can tell
[16:51] <Nightrose> besides that it is it should have been in ubuntu ages ago if you ask me
[16:51] <Nightrose> but due to licensing problem it was not included
[16:51] <Nightrose> which seem to be fixed now
[16:51] <Nightrose> -it is
[16:51] <ScottK> So please put it in the bug.
[16:52] <Nightrose> ok
[16:53] <Riddell> seele: no we set it once globally
[16:53] <Riddell> seele: if apps or users of apps set it per app then that will stick
[16:55] <seele> easy peasy then
[17:00] <Riddell> now, do we want a lighter background colour
[17:00] <smarter> +1000
[17:01]  * smarter really hates this win98-likes grey background
[17:01] <smarter> IMHO, we should also change the tooltip color from blue to yellow
[17:02] <apachelogger> background of what?
[17:02] <smarter> apachelogger: kde4 apps
[17:02] <Riddell> apachelogger: window background
[17:02] <Riddell> it's quite a dark grey in oxygen and https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidDefaults says we decided to make it lighter when discussing it i nprague
[17:03] <apachelogger> I wouldn't call it dark really
[17:03] <smarter> I find it depressive :P
[17:03] <apachelogger> worth a try I guess
[17:04] <apachelogger> but changing the tooltip from blue to yellow is a bad idea, yellow conflicts with basically every other color in the oxygen color scheme
[17:05] <Nightrose> +1
[17:05] <smarter> and are we going to change the "KDE DESKTOP" link on the top right of kickoff?
[17:06] <apachelogger> if you have a picture to replace it
[17:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: tell master seigo to make that configurable
[17:06] <smarter> shouldn't be too hard to do one, there's tons of userbar maker
[17:07] <apachelogger> well
[17:07] <smarter> I'll try to make one
[17:07] <apachelogger> userbar looks like crap
[17:07] <smarter> :]
[17:07] <apachelogger> aseigo wanted to replace the current one before release, he probably didn't get to it
[17:07] <smarter> so what do you suggest?
[17:08] <apachelogger> smarter: maybe we should just change the picture scaling and use a bigger kubuntu logo
[17:08] <apachelogger> like we had in 4.0
[17:08] <smarter> screenshot?
[17:11] <apachelogger> screw that
[17:11] <apachelogger> smarter: write your MOTU application
[17:11]  * apachelogger has to write his core-dev application
[17:11] <smarter> :}
[17:12] <ScottK> The KDE 3.5.10 compiz-kicker crash thing happens on opensuse too.
[17:12] <Riddell> ScottK: always reassuring :)
[17:17] <Riddell> did we decide on a course of action for gtk-qt themes?
[17:25] <ScottK> Riddell: The alternative was uploaded prior to FF, so maybe get it through New and compare?
[17:25] <ScottK> I'm blanking on the package name ATM.
[17:26] <Riddell> gtk-kde4
[17:26] <Riddell> I can't seem to get gtk-qt-engine to work
[17:27] <ScottK> Yeah.  That's the one.  Now if we could only find an archive admin to push it through New ...
[17:27]  * Riddell accepts
[17:49] <Riddell> smarter: why does kde4-style-bespin contain a plasmoid?
[17:52] <Riddell> devfil: what's the advantage of gtk-kde4 over gtk-qt-engine?
[17:52] <Riddell> devfil: oh and why is the binary named kcm-gtk when surely the style itself is the main feature?
[17:53] <devfil> Riddell: apachelogger suggests me to call it kcm-gtk-kde4
[17:54] <devfil> Riddell: the style doesn't have particulr problem, looks good maybe the menus aren't good
[17:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: the kcm is really the main feature as I understood
[17:55] <devfil> apachelogger: openSUSE what use as gtk theme?
[17:56] <apachelogger> dunno, jolly hard to reach someone who knows
[17:56] <apachelogger> I guess they don't know them selfs ;-)
[17:56] <devfil> LOL
[17:56] <apachelogger> looks like they were just using some gtk native theme in 11.0
[17:56] <apachelogger> but that dev of gtk-kde4 is an opensuse fanboy
[17:57] <devfil> uhm... this makes sense
[17:57] <apachelogger> so I guess he will take care that it gets used in 11.1 ;-)
[17:57] <devfil> when I've used gtk-kde4 the first time
[17:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: got an opinion on gtk-kde4 vs gtk-qt-engine?
[17:57] <devfil> I've installed it in ubuntu+kubuntu desktop package
[17:57] <devfil> it was the same of kde4
[17:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: I didn't look to closly at gtk-kde4 yet, but I think it causes less problems
[17:57] <devfil> in kubuntu no
[17:58]  * Riddell ponders whether to let "libass" through new queue
[17:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: gtk-kde4 is really just pixmapping while gtk-qt is emulating the whole style
[17:58] <devfil> a fusion between the two should be the best solution
[17:58] <devfil> menu from gtk-qt
[17:58] <devfil> and other things from gtk-kde4
[18:01] <devfil> Riddell: this seems to be interesting http://jaysonrowe.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/tip-gtk-apps-under-kde-4-and-a-big-thanks-to-opensuse/
[18:01] <Riddell> Artemis_Fowl: how does kgrubeditor manage to get root as a kcm module?
[18:02] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: you want me to explain to you the programming methods?
[18:02] <jjesse> magic
[18:05] <Riddell> Artemis_Fowl: yep
[18:06] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: well it's not a very "clean" way
[18:07] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: basically the password is acquired by a KPasswordDialog subclass which is customised to handle errors (eg. the user entered wrong password)
[18:07] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: and here comes the "ugly" part
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> for example when saving the changes
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> the file we want to write to is checked if it is writable and if not a temp file is created, the contentes are written there
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> and then
[18:09] <Artemis_Fowl> using KSuProcess we use the command "cp" to copy the temp file->original
[18:09] <Artemis_Fowl> that's pretty much how root actions are taken
[18:10] <Riddell> fair enough, it's about the best we can do until we get a kde policykit
[18:10] <Artemis_Fowl> yes
[18:10] <Artemis_Fowl> actually
[18:10] <Riddell> Artemis_Fowl: I've written a main inclusion report and put kgrubeditor into the seeds so it'll appear on the CD
[18:10] <Artemis_Fowl> OK
[18:11] <Nightrose> ScottK: thanks :)  hope someone finds the time for it
[18:11] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: A better solution though would be to ship an executable along with kgrubeditor which would be called using KSuProcess too and could perform the cp actions etc
[18:12] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: so as to make it more platform-independent
[18:12] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: but still it sux
[18:23] <smarter> Riddell: upstream put a plasmoid inside, don't know why
[18:23] <Riddell> smarter: is it at all related?
[18:24] <smarter> the name in the source files is "Bespin mac-a-like XBar KDE4"
[18:24] <Riddell> ah, it's to make thing more mac like
[18:25] <smarter> it's a plasmoid to be put on the top panel
[18:25] <smarter> it seems to imitate os X top panel
[18:27]  * Riddell accepts
[18:48] <asfak> hello everyone. Everything is fine with intrepid kub alpha4 experience but difficulty in getting nvidia-old legacy driver running. Resctricted driver unable to download anything. envyNg installs but during boot only black screen comes up.
[18:50] <asfak> i have updated to use new 2.6.27.1 kernel esp to use my old webcam using spca driver which were merged in this kernel but with no benefit it seems
[18:55] <Riddell> asfak: linux isn't really our domain, we just do KDE
[18:58] <\sh> asfak: #ubuntu-kernel is the way to go...all intrepid kernel stuff should go there including modules
[18:59] <asfak> actually i am not much concerned about linux. Envy-qt was updated to version 2.0. And according to envyNG developer, only version 177 of nvidia works with new kernel. and this way i am not enjoying full power of kubuntu
[18:59] <apachelogger> what is envyng anyway?
[19:00] <asfak> ati, nvidia installer for kubuntu, ubuntu
[19:01] <\sh> asfak: ask the developer :)
[19:01] <asfak> i think, developer maybe knowing about this. it's very premature to ask about it
[19:02] <asfak> anyway i am asking at #ubuntu-kernel
[19:03] <asfak> BTW, what will be default adept, amarok and digikam version for Kubuntu intrepid ?
[19:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: can I mention you as sponsor in my core dev app?
[19:34] <jpds> apachelogger: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/190
[19:36] <jpds> apachelogger: It doesn't do Konq cookies yet, but if the master can't retry, it'll now tell him why not.
[19:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: word on the streets is tars might be accessible now
[19:38] <jpds> !envy > apachelogger
[19:39] <apachelogger> lol
[19:39] <apachelogger> jpds: my wallpaper is as informative as that :P
[19:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: yeah, I just started the download
[19:40] <apachelogger> jpds: applications giving feedback is always good to have
[19:40]  * apachelogger hands jpds a half cookie
[19:41]  * jpds hands apachelogger a python learning book.
[19:42]  * apachelogger shudders and continues fiddeling on his application
[19:44] <\sh> apachelogger: go for core...go for core :)
[19:47] <\sh> apachelogger: can you check something causing kmail not replacing? http://paste.ubuntu.com/41322/
[19:52] <\sh> apachelogger: hardy + ppa upgrade to intrepid...I think something's messed up in kmail-kde4
[19:52] <seaLne> hehe at a talk about landscape and the staging server has fallen over
[19:53] <\sh> seaLne: uhm? that's nasty
[19:54] <seaLne> staging not production so more amusing than anything else :)
[19:55] <ScottK> \sh: kdepim-kde4 is an old pre-release package from gutsy-backports.
[19:55] <\sh> doing a presentation and the server falls over is also nasty..no matter if it's beta, alpha, or production...it's funny but shouldn't do
[19:55] <ScottK> It's not suprising it doesn't upgrade well.
[19:56] <ScottK> apachelogger: What did I upload of yours again?
[19:56] <\sh> ScottK: hmm..it was in the hardy ppa...or did it never upgrade at all..no..I never used gutsy-backports
[19:57] <apachelogger> ScottK: kdesdk 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu8
[19:58] <apachelogger> \sh: hardy -> intrepid upgrade?
[19:58] <apachelogger> ah
[19:58]  * apachelogger should read
[19:58] <ScottK> \sh: It was in hardy, but was removed back in December.
[19:59] <apachelogger> \sh: I will take a look at it, there seems to ba general upgrade issue for kdepim
[19:59] <\sh> ScottK: grmpf :)
[19:59]  * apachelogger ready something about akregator earlier today
[19:59] <apachelogger> s/ready/read
[19:59] <ScottK> 4:3.97.0-0ubuntu2
[20:42] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r--  1 me me  11K 2008-08-28 21:41 apachelogger-core-dev-app_1.0-0ubuntu0~ppa1_i386.deb
[20:42] <apachelogger> :D
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> bah
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> my brother doesn't know how to file good bug reports with me
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> oh, he probably didn't realise that Lancelot handles user switching inside Lancelot...
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> which is why he logged me out :(
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> so did anybody ping me or anything?
[20:56] <seele> JontheEchidna: doesnt look like it
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> k, thanks
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> ooh, new kubuntu-default-settings release
[21:00] <apachelogger> uh
[21:01] <apachelogger> my graphics are seriuosly getting messed up here
[21:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: to the batcave
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> cool, 77 kb smaller than the previous release
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> to the batcave!
[21:01] <devfil_> apachelogger: can you upload http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/41335/ ?
[21:02] <apachelogger> devfil_: did you testdrive it?
[21:02] <devfil_> apachelogger: yes
[21:03] <apachelogger> ok
[21:03] <apachelogger> as soon as I founda terminal
[21:04] <apachelogger> uploaded
[21:08] <seele> argh
[21:08]  * seele turns off the phone and makes a pot of tea
[21:36] <Nightrose> seele: who is rodo gon?
[21:36] <Nightrose> added me as friend on facebook and i have no idea who he is but he also added you so...
[21:36] <Nightrose> ;-)
[21:40] <seele> Nightrose: i dont know but it was easier to add him than to keep ignoring his messages
[21:40] <seele> stupid social networking
[21:41] <Nightrose> heh
[21:41]  * Nightrose will ignore him then
[21:41] <Nightrose> not going to add people i don't know
[21:43] <seele> you dont get requests from people youve met at conferences and forget?
[21:44] <seele> i wish there was a way to assign relationships besides how you know someone
[21:44] <seele> like in orkut
[21:44] <seele> "know this person in real life"
[21:44] <seele> "know this person only online"
[21:45] <seele> "have no idea who this person is but added them anyway"
[21:45] <jcastro> I find my facebook explodes after conferences
[21:45] <jcastro> it makes me feel good about myself.
[21:46] <jcastro> even if they're just oss people who I only meet once
[21:46] <jjesse> the funny thing about my facebook is when girls i knew in high school add me and my wife asks who she is
[21:46] <seele> lol
[21:47] <Nightrose> seele: i know those names/faces ;-)
[21:48]  * Nightrose is relatively good with that
[21:48] <seele> i'm terrible, hehe
[21:48] <Nightrose> hehe
[21:48] <seele> i'll recognize a face if i've met them before, but i can't remember names or projects
[21:48] <Nightrose> *nod*
[21:49] <seele> although if i know what their IRC /nick is, i'll remember that :)
[21:49] <Nightrose> hehe
[21:50] <seele> and when people come up to you and say your name.. that's the worst.  i feel like i ought to know who they are
[21:50] <Nightrose> ;-)
[21:50] <Nightrose> i know what you mean
[21:51] <Nightrose> luckily i know the name most of the time
[21:51] <jjesse> hrmm have i added seele to my facbook account?
[21:51] <Nightrose> but it is really bad if I don't...
[21:51] <seele> jjesse: i dont think so
[21:51] <seele> Nightrose: i just nod and smile and try to figure out where ive seen this person before or what project
[21:51] <seele> because sometimes i'll talk to people on irc or via mail, and be like "yeah, come see me during the conference"
[21:52] <Nightrose> yea
[21:52] <seele> but then people come up to me and start talking about the problem, and forget to introduce themselves and their project so i know who they are
[21:52] <Nightrose> do that as well
[21:52] <Nightrose> yea
[21:52] <jjesse> i do that all the time, my wife always asks "why didn't you introduce me" when she is sstanding next to me... and i'm like i had no clue who that was
[21:53] <Nightrose> i always hope that somehow they mention something that rings a bell
[21:53] <Nightrose> *g* jjesse
[21:55] <seele> jjesse: lol
[21:55] <seele> well i'm glad i'm not the only one with this problem :)
[21:59] <Nightrose> seele: hehe you are by far not the only one - take sven for example - I am his brain extension when it comes to names
[21:59] <Nightrose> he would be completely helpless on conferences without me sometimes
[21:59] <Nightrose> i don't even want to count the times he asked me who the person he just talked to for an hour was
[22:00] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:01] <seele> hehe
[22:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: I don't see how kde4libs can build depend on kdesdk
[22:19] <apachelogger> sdk will not build without libs and libs not without sdk, that doesn't sound very healthy ;-)
[22:22] <Nightrose> though not all shops let you do that
[22:22] <Nightrose> meh
[22:22] <Nightrose> irssi...
[22:24] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: would the amarokers be interested in bug 262320
[22:24] <JontheEchidna> ?
[22:24]  * JontheEchidna slaps ubottu
[22:25] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: got a link?
[22:26] <Nightrose> ubottu: lazy bot!
[22:29]  * Nightrose checks
[22:29] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: i will have our devs have a look
[22:29] <Nightrose> thanks
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> too bad apport bugs never get good reproducibility intructions :/
[22:31] <JontheEchidna> at least the amarok-kde4 packages dep on the -dbg packages
[22:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: doesn't anymore
[22:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: and apport retraces the crash after some time
[22:34] <JontheEchidna> ah, right
[22:34] <JontheEchidna> yay for apport I suppose
[22:35] <JontheEchidna> ...except apport bugs generally end up irremovable stains on the face of Launchpad
[22:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it does?
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> in the sense that
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> nobody ever says how it crashes
[22:36] <apachelogger> that is indeed very true
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> so they just sit there forever
[22:38] <apachelogger> one could eventually ask and mark them as incomplete ;-)
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> we should just close all the ones from KDE3
[22:42] <apachelogger> we still support KDE 3 based kubuntu versions
[23:24] <Riddell> well, I have concluded that knetworkmanager doesn't work with the current network manager
[23:27] <apachelogger> there 30 power manger apps for KDE 4 but no network managers :(