[00:00] <Ng> g45 seems happy with 2.6.27 and the latest -intel package :)
[00:15] <tjaalton> ok, synaptics uploaded..
[00:16] <tjaalton> zzz ->
[00:17] <tormod> now where did tedg go?
[00:17] <tormod> it's not allowed to leave irc before FF :)
[00:18] <bryce> heh, tedg is not much of an irc guy ;-)
[00:18] <bryce> if you have IM, he tends to respond better to that (or email)
[00:20] <tormod> thanks for the hint. you know what timezone he's in?
[00:20] <tormod> I thought IRC was IM :)
[00:20] <bryce> he's in texas, which I think is -5 or -6
[00:20] <bryce> er -6 or -7
[00:21] <tormod> is he a day or night worker?
[00:25] <bryce> pretty much.  ain't we all?
[00:25] <bryce> ;-)
[00:25] <bryce> actually I don't know for certain; I think he's a morning type guy, and he has a young son so he probably can't work all hours of the day like he'd probably like
[00:25] <bryce> he's obsessive about checking email though
[00:28] <tormod> I'll try mail then :) thanks
[07:05] <tjaalton> bryce: looks good
[07:49] <tjaalton> hm, I wonder if xserver should depend on evdev
[07:51] <tjaalton> or xserver-xorg should depend on 'x-x-i-all | x-x-i-evdev | x-x-i-ABI'
[08:13] <tseliot> bryce: did you try screen-resolution-extra?
[09:51]  * Ng pokes at the changelog for -intel 2.4.2 to see if it's interesting ;)
[09:51] <tjaalton> Ng: our 2.4.1 is basically 2.4.2
[09:52] <tjaalton> only upstream change is the version string
[09:52] <Ng> ah, sweet :)
[09:52] <Ng> I gave it a quick test out last night on the new box and it seemed fine :)
[09:52] <tjaalton> nice
[11:07] <tjaalton> so, the new mesa broke stuff for intel at least
[11:08] <tjaalton> compiz doesn't start etc.
[11:10] <jcristau> tjaalton: with the new server?
[11:10] <tjaalton> jcristau: old one
[11:10] <jcristau> there's a chance the new one will fix this
[11:10] <tjaalton> ah
[11:10] <tjaalton> k, I'll build it then
[11:13] <jcristau> configure will check for inputproto 1.4.4
[11:18] <tjaalton> crap
[11:18] <tjaalton> I had 1.9.xx installed
[11:25] <tjaalton> patch added, now building..
[11:35] <tjaalton> yeah, I got compiz back
[13:45] <tjaalton> hm, my xserver locked hard
[13:47] <tjaalton> or maybe the display just went blank
[13:48] <tseliot> tjaalton: lucky you... with the new driver my my Intel card makes the screen flicker
[13:49] <pwnguin> as of last week, my laptop just sits black
[13:49] <pwnguin> not an X thing, a power cord thing =(
[14:00] <tjaalton> pwnguin: btw, the wacom crash is due to the new driver
[14:00] <tjaalton> old one works for me
[14:00] <pwnguin> "works"
[14:01] <tjaalton> hotplug works
[14:01] <pwnguin> do i need to check my email?
[14:01] <tjaalton> and doesn't crash the server
[14:01] <tjaalton> I replied to the bug, that's all
[14:01] <tjaalton> and found a dupe
[14:02] <pwnguin> i haven't yet figured out how to communicate with upstream effectively
[14:03] <pwnguin> they've basically said reporters need to send email to the list and then they'll create reports themselves (if they feel so inclined)
[14:04] <tjaalton> no-one replied to my question about input properties
[14:06] <jcristau> is upstream more than magnus?
[14:06] <tjaalton> jcristau: you mean commit 5e847c1d4fc30a0d would fix the problem of choosing a driver which doesn't support the device instead of just falling back to vesa?
[14:07] <jcristau> tjaalton: it should
[14:08] <tjaalton> cool
[14:08] <tjaalton> wacom upstream is some Ping guy
[14:09] <tjaalton> magnus has been active, but no posts from him in a while
[14:11] <pwnguin> danny kuwaka (sp?) has been engaging linuxwacom lately, mostly in the form of sax2 patches
[14:17] <soren> It's Kukawka.
[14:17] <soren> Well, presuming we're talking about the same guy :)
[14:19] <pwnguin> yea
[14:19] <pwnguin> i think i'll just call him danny, because i dont know any others
[14:20] <pwnguin> i know a couple soren's but only one danny :)
[14:21] <soren> pwnguin: Really? That's a rather unique statistic, I think :)
[14:22] <tjaalton> ok, so my laptop screen doesn't wake up
[14:22] <tjaalton> hrm, will test another kernel
[14:23] <tseliot> tjaalton: and my laptop doesn't boot at all with 2.6.27
[14:24] <tjaalton> tseliot: fun :)
[14:24] <tseliot> tjaalton: a lot...
[14:24] <tseliot> furthermore I can't do mouse clicks by tapping on my touchpad any more
[14:25] <tjaalton> tseliot: since when?
[14:25] <tseliot> tjaalton: today
[14:25] <tjaalton> logfile
[14:29] <tseliot> tjaalton: http://pastebin.com/m4923e04a
[14:31] <tjaalton> tseliot: so you've ran intrepid on it before the update?
[14:32] <tseliot> tjaalton: yes, sure
[14:32] <tjaalton> well, you should be able to change the setting on the fly with xinput
[14:33] <tseliot> hmm,,, it wasn't installed
[14:34] <tjaalton> it's not a strict dependency
[14:35] <tseliot> tjaalton: how can I change the settings with xinput?
[14:36] <tjaalton> tseliot: http://who-t.blogspot.com/2008/07/input-device-properties.html
[14:36] <tjaalton> I don't have a touchpad though
[14:36] <tjaalton> so haven't tested it
[14:37] <tseliot> ok, thanks
[14:38] <tjaalton> man xinput helps as well
[14:43] <tjaalton> tseliot: you could also try to downgrade the driver to see if it works with the old version
[14:43] <tseliot> tjaalton: sure
[14:44] <tjaalton> could be that the driver defaults have changed
[14:49] <tseliot> tjaalton: yes, reverting to 0.14.7 solved the problem
[14:50] <tseliot> also with the intel driver 2.3.2 the screen doesn't flicker
[14:53] <tjaalton> tseliot: what chip do you have?
[14:53] <tseliot> tjaalton: Compiz doesn't work with either version
[14:53] <tjaalton> try if the latest xserver is built
[14:53] <tjaalton> and published.. probably not
[14:54] <tseliot> tjaalton: it says intel 945GM/GMS/GME, 943/940GML
[14:55] <tjaalton> ok, 965 doesn't flicker
[14:55] <tjaalton> or, when should it flicker?
[14:56] <tjaalton> I don't do multihead
[14:56] <tseliot> tjaalton: it flickers with 2.4.1 with a single display
[14:56] <tseliot> with no virtual resolution set
[14:56] <jcristau> weird. doesn't here.
[14:57] <jcristau> hrm
[14:57] <jcristau> i'm wrong
[14:57] <jcristau> actually it does
[14:57] <tseliot> jcristau: glad to know that I'm not the only one ;)
[14:57] <jcristau> 2.4.1 didn't (i think), 2.4.2 does
[14:58] <jcristau> 2.4 did, too :)
[14:58]  * jcristau bisects
[14:59] <tseliot> tjaalton: any links to the new xserver?
[15:00] <tjaalton> tseliot: available on archive.u.c
[15:01] <tjaalton> ok, my screen doesn't wake up with .26 or .27, but does with .24
[15:03] <tjaalton> and the mouse pointer isn't crazy either
[15:03] <tjaalton> with .24
[15:09] <jcristau> 48d4b0ae is the culprit
[16:29]  * Ng spies talk of flickering
[16:29] <Ng> I wonder if that's the same thing I'm seeing
[17:09] <tseliot> federico1: I'm looking for the name of the connected output in the display capplet (e.g. VGA, LVDS[1], etc.). Is "output->name" what I'm looking for? "output->display_name" should the label (e.g. Samsung 204b) while "output->name" is VGA, etc., right?
[17:22] <superm1> bryce, any updates on your end from AMD by chance?
[17:26] <tjaalton> superm1: 1.5 will be released next week, so hopefully the Sep version supports it
[17:28] <superm1> tjaalton, unfortunately from the feedback i've heard it looks like it's a lot of work to rework on their end, and i've yet to see any of the private betas even touch on the subject
[17:29] <tjaalton> superm1: hm, too bad
[17:29] <tjaalton> even so, going back to 1.4 is not an option IMHO
[17:29] <superm1> tjaalton, yeah so i'm just hoping at this point that more positive words might have been received from bryce's channels.  
[17:30] <superm1> what i don't get is that they really should have seen this coming
[17:30] <superm1> these changes have been in xorg-server's git for a long time
[17:30] <tjaalton> yep.. nvidia has supported it since March or so
[17:31] <superm1> in an email, i quote "We only recently found about the major changes"
[17:31] <superm1> so yeah...
[17:31] <tjaalton> umm, right
[17:31] <tjaalton> head-in-the-sand
[17:35] <federico1> tseliot: yeah, I think output->name is just what xrandr(1) would report
[18:09] <bryce> superm1: sorry, what I've heard seems to be about the same as what you've heard
[18:10] <superm1> bryce, well right now i'm crossing my fingers hoping that they can just throw a ton of man power at it and get it done soon
[18:11] <jcristau> a ton of manpower sounds like too much
[18:12] <bryce> superm1: yeah sounds like it's top priority for them right now
[18:13] <bryce> superm1: there's a release meeting tomorrow, and colin suggested we discuss the potential of an -fglrx SRU there
[18:13] <superm1> bryce, i'll listen in on the meeting, you know what time it's at?
[18:15] <bryce> superm1: 15:00 GMT I think, on #ubuntu-meeting.  let me verify
[18:16] <bryce> yep  - http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1619
[18:16] <superm1> yeah i should be able to make that i believe
[19:41] <bryce> tseliot: you about?
[20:10] <tseliot> bryce: I'm here. Did I miss anything?
[20:11] <bdmurray> tseliot: I'm looking for a bug with a bad xorg.conf
[20:11] <tseliot> bdmurray: with X-Kit?
[20:12] <bryce> tseliot: heya.  brian is working on hooking up your xorg.conf validator script to run automatically on bug submissions
[20:12] <tseliot> bryce, bdmurray: fantastic!
[20:12] <bdmurray> well, to process existing bug reports ;)
[20:13] <tseliot> bdmurray: would you like me to send you a text file with the tests performed on all the bug reports?
[20:13] <bdmurray> tseliot: I wanted to know if you knew of a bug # with a bad one
[20:13] <tseliot> bdmurray: sure, let me check
[20:13] <bdmurray> or if you have the librarian url I can find the bug
[20:14] <tseliot> bdmurray: 106632 or 103839
[20:16] <tseliot> bdmurray: I've got other ~160 bugreports
[20:16] <tseliot> bryce, superm1: BTW the switch to kernel 2.6.27 killed one more NVIDIA driver (173)
[20:16] <bdmurray> tseliot: okay, if I need to test more I'll let you know :-)
[20:16] <superm1> tseliot, ugh really?
[20:17] <tseliot> bdmurray: ok
[20:17] <superm1> tseliot, failed to compile, or what's the deal?
[20:17] <tseliot> superm1: yes, it failed to compiled. Then I applied the patch, compiled and I got this: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=118595
[20:18] <tseliot> superm1: I can't even modprobe the module...
[20:19] <tseliot> nooo, another NVIDIA beta driver was released...
[20:19] <bryce> "Intrepid - The (unintentionally) fully FOSS Ubuntu release"
[20:20] <tseliot> bryce: yes, that's how it will end up
[20:20] <superm1> haha
[20:21] <superm1> tseliot, i dont see any new ones listed on http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us ?
[20:21] <superm1> oh nvm on nvnews.net 
[20:21] <superm1> not on nvidia.com yet
[20:22] <tseliot> yep, it's here: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=118602
[20:22] <superm1> yeah this situation for all these binary drivers is pretty bad it seems right now...
[20:23] <superm1> other than nvidia 177 i suppose
[20:23] <tseliot> bryce: improving communication with NVIDIA wouldn't be a bad idea (as you did with AMD)
[20:23] <tseliot> bryce: by "you" I mean Canonical
[20:23] <bdmurray> tseliot: 106632's attachments passed for me
[20:25] <tseliot> bdmurray: yes, and it is valid
[20:25] <tseliot> hmm...
[20:25] <bdmurray> tseliot: okay, I thought you mentioned that as an example of a bad one.  I found that 103839 did have a bad one though
[20:26] <tseliot> bdmurray: yes, it has a broken reference to a monitor section which doesn't exist
[20:26] <bdmurray> right, so 106632's are good and 103839 has a bad one
[20:27] <tseliot> bdmurray: yes, right
[20:28] <bdmurray> Okay, I think my script is sound, I'll start processing some next week I think.  I've a long weekend this weekend.
[20:30] <tseliot> bdmurray: great. Let me know if there is something you would like me to change in X-Kit.
[21:09] <bryce> hey bdmurray, I like using the "incomplete with response" to review replies to the -ati bugs to filter down to ones I need to look at.  But often I am just asking another question (like, attach /var/log/Xorg.0.log).  Is there a way to bump an incomplete bug back to 'incomplete without response', aside from moving it to New and then back to Incomplete?
[22:38] <tseliot> bryce, superm1: I got driver 173 back with another patch
[22:39] <superm1> tseliot, you wrote it, or got it from somewhere?
[22:40] <tseliot> superm1: I took it from Kanotix
[22:40] <superm1> ah that was pretty quick of him to come up with a patch
[22:40] <tseliot> yep
[22:40] <tjaalton> I think he had that for some time
[22:40] <superm1> now remind me briefly; are -71 and -96 broken because of similar reasons, or xorg server 1.5?
[22:40] <tseliot> xorg 1.5
[22:41] <superm1> so a lot less likely to be fixed anytime very soon
[22:41] <tseliot> yes...
[22:41] <superm1> what's the plan of attack for those packages then?  i mean it doesn't make sense to offer them via jockey right now does it?
[22:42] <tseliot> I can hijack the modaliases files for those drivers
[22:42] <superm1> well or just have jockey not depend on those until they are fixed?
[22:42] <superm1> i mean that's basically what's going on right now for fglrx
[22:42] <tseliot> yes
[22:43] <superm1> and i suppose have nvidia-common not support them etc
[22:43] <tseliot> oh and I forgot that I can't touch the modaliases since we need them to know which cards are not supported
[22:43] <tseliot> so that maybe nvidia-common can detect them and change the driver to nv in case of dist-upgrade
[22:44] <tseliot> we could do the same with ati cards
[22:44] <superm1> well the fat lady hasn't sung yet on ati cards, but yeah that's a possible solution
[22:45] <tseliot> yes, it was just an idea
[22:45] <tseliot> and we don't know what NVIDIA will do and when
[22:45] <tseliot> superm1: I have fixed a problem in nvidia-settings
[22:46] <superm1> tseliot, what problem?
[22:46] <tseliot> it set the background colour to white
[22:46] <tseliot> in the glx frame
[22:46] <superm1> is that not desirable?
[22:46] <tseliot> not with dark themes
[22:47] <superm1> ah yeah.  
[22:47] <tseliot> that frame looked like a big white rectangle here
[22:47] <superm1> do you need sponsorship on that?
[22:47] <tseliot> yes, please
[22:47] <tseliot> let me upload the package to my website
[22:47] <superm1> you have a debdiff somewhere I can apply and upload?
[22:47] <superm1> make sure to submit this patch to nvidia too
[22:48] <tseliot> on their forums?
[22:48] <superm1> ideally yes.  if they aren't responsive, i've got other channels i can submit it too
[22:53] <tseliot> superm1: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/nvidia/nvidia-settings_173.14.09-1ubuntu3.debdiff
[22:54] <tseliot> superm1: I have just commented out a few lines
[22:54] <superm1> that debdiff seems a bit sizable for "just commented out a few lines"? 
[22:54] <tseliot> superm1: a file was auto-generated
[22:55] <tseliot> and didn't go away after a debclean
[22:55] <superm1> ugh i forgot how annoying this package is; it doesn't use a patch system at all
[22:55] <superm1> i'm going to add in a patch system so this doesn't get lose in cruft
[22:55] <tseliot> superm1: shall I upload the whole source then?
[22:56] <superm1> tseliot, no it's okay, i'll factor your changes directly into a .patch in debian/patches and then add you to the changelog manually
[22:56] <tseliot> ok thanks
[23:05] <superm1> okay tseliot uploaded 
[23:06] <tseliot> superm1: thanks a lot
[23:06] <superm1> tseliot,  np.  you should find a core-dev sponsor for that nvidia-drivers-173 soon too.  my boss was bugging me about that this morning when he upgraded to 2.6.27 ;)
[23:08] <tseliot> superm1: I'll make DKMS apply the patch only with 2.6.27 so as to keep compatibility with 2.6.26. Your boss will be happy about this ;)
[23:08] <superm1> :)
[23:09] <tseliot> superm1: how do you handle upgrades to new versions of the driver with DKMS?
[23:09] <superm1> you remove the old version with dkms remove
[23:10] <superm1> and then install the new version with dkms add/install/build
[23:14] <tseliot> superm1: it's what I do but the directories of the old versions still remain in /var/lib/dkms/nvidia even though they are almost empty
[23:14] <superm1> what's still there?
[23:15] <tseliot> For example, these directories: 2.6.26-5-generic  build
[23:15] <tseliot> and this broken link:  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   25 2008-08-03 16:49 source -> /usr/src/nvidia-173.14.09
[23:17] <tseliot> superm1: oops, I didn't set remove|upgrade in the case loop
[23:17] <tseliot> my bad
[23:17] <tseliot> (in the prerm)
[23:18] <tseliot> there was only remove
[23:19] <superm1> oh, yeah i ran into that a while back on fglrx too
[23:56] <tseliot> superm1: patch for nvidia-settings submitted to NVIDIA: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=118640
[23:56] <tseliot> good night
[23:56] <superm1> tseliot, okay great :)
[23:56] <superm1> tseliot, let me know if that gets ack'ed by them in the next week or two
[23:56] <superm1> if not i'll bring it up via my channels
[23:57] <tseliot> superm1: ok, I subscribed to that thread so as to be notified via email. I'll let you know how it goes
[23:57] <superm1> ok
[23:57] <superm1> nigth
[23:57]  * tseliot > bed