[00:01] NCommander: Hmm? [00:01] jpds, I've roughly caused anyone in ubuntu-backports to get 100 or so emails due to my work on cutting the queue down to size [00:01] (120 NEW to less than 30) [00:02] jpds, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports - I think the pretty pie graph says it better than I can [00:02] (as a note, the NEW was at 85%-ish when I started) [00:02] NCommander: I don't have any mail from that. [00:03] Hrm, it looked like ubuntu-backporters got any email that was sent due to changes on the bugs in backports [00:03] Guess I'm wrong === superm1 is now known as superm1|away [00:04] * jpds hugs NCommander [00:04] yeah, can I be an Ubuntu backporter? [00:04] * NCommander runs [00:04] * NCommander still has to attack the gutsy and dapper queues ;.; [00:05] NCommander: You have to be ~motu first. [00:05] sadly ;.; [00:06] I don't even meet the time requirements for UUC [00:07] jpds, well, could you at least move some things from triaged/confirmed to inprogress ;-) [00:07] NCommander: Later. [00:07] Fri Aug 29 00:07:32 BST 2008 [00:07] Oh [00:07] Damn time differences [00:07] Night! [00:08] 07:32 is morning O-o; [00:08] Unless thats 12 hour time [00:08] Backports for hardy should be done by then [00:17] ogra: just discovered that tedg decided to make his own xscreensaver 5.07-0 instead of using all my work in 5.07-1. So much for avoiding duplicate work. [00:50] NCommander: 07:32 is morning, but 00:07:32 is just a few minutes past midnight :) [00:51] oh [00:51] whoops [00:56] * NCommander wonders how long until the archive admins handle the backports queue [00:56] cjwatson: guessing you can tell me what package this should be against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/262451 [00:58] how interesting, Firefox opens a new blank window every time I open a tab or move to a different webpage [00:58] and if I close one FF crashes completely [01:00] LaserJock: Those are probably from the pluginwrapper thingie. [01:00] Not that knowing that will help anything, but meh. :) [01:01] soren: ahh, right, I did upgrade that recently :/ [01:06] CarlFK: the assertion is in dpkg, so there's a dpkg bug [01:06] slangasek: thanks [01:06] CarlFK: if fixing that bug doesn't fix the overall problem, then iterate ;) [01:09] wooo, ten backport NEW bugs left === superm1|away is now known as superm1 [02:12] i must be doing something wrong [02:12] my $dest = "test/foo/bar/baz"; [02:12] mkdir -p $dest; [02:12] why does that not work in perl? [02:13] tells me: Use of uninitialized value in mkdir at ./test.pl line 4. [02:13] which line is line 4? [02:13] the mkdir line [02:13] "mkdir -p $dest" is wrong, regardless [02:13] perl isn't shell [02:13] oh what should it be? [02:13] its a snippet from another script in ooo-build [02:13] mkdir($dest); [02:13] does perl mkdir make leading dirs? [02:14] well, either you need to call system("mkdir -p $dest"), or you need to implement -p yourself, I think [02:14] ok [02:14] I'm not certain, but I don't think so. [02:14] or use mkpath from File::Path [02:14] ok [02:14] i'm trying the system() [02:15] * calc isn't sure how this worked for the person who wrote it [02:17] i didn't think you could call commands directly but he is apparently at least trying to do it all throughout the code [02:17] lol [02:17] maybe the intrepreter line at the top is a red herring, and he's invoking it as sh ./haha.pl === jamesh_ is now known as jamesh [02:23] superm1: hum, why does mythbuntu-log-grabber build-depend on *both* python-central and python-support? [02:25] slangasek: Just to be sure [02:25] oh; isn't it better to use python-cya for that? [02:25] ... why is there a library named "libass"? [02:27] -rw-r--r-- root/root 3019 2008-08-28 18:02 ./usr/include/ass/ass_types.h [02:27] * slangasek shakes his head [02:27] Teehee [02:27] at least they don't have a 'hats' class [02:27] hah [02:37] slangasek: nope its definitely perl but looks like buggy perl [02:51] StevenK, hola [02:51] NCommander: I'm starting to get the impression you only talk to me when you want my GPG key. [02:52] StevenK, no, I wanted you to confirm I have no life [02:52] StevenK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports [02:52] You don't need me to do that ... [02:52] I finished processing the backports queue (112 bugs) for Hardy within 24 hours [02:52] I think I hear slangasek screaming [02:52] StevenK: maybe he means that he wants you to triage that he has no life [02:53] Yes well, causing slangasek to run in fear is always an amusing passtime [02:53] the ~ubuntu-archive queue is only 48 bugs, I think you mean you hear ScottK and jdong screaming [02:54] I already got compaints that I flooded a few peoples inboxs [02:54] 118 bug handling causes a lot of email sent [02:54] s/handling/handed [02:54] ... handled [02:54] * Hobbsee is thinking of /dev/null'ing all non-bugmail from launchpad. [02:55] slangasek: The pain will end up in your lap soon enough :-P [02:55] The easy solution would to simply make me an archive admin and then delgate the task to me [02:55] That way all the pain is self-inflicted [02:55] Once I'm an MOTU, I can also spare ScottK and jdong pain ;-) [02:56] StevenK: I'm subtly putting load on other people in the right places so that the backports queue will reach ubuntu-archive right when pitti is back and I'm on holiday ;) [02:56] NCommander: Your easy solution has some remarkable assumptions. :-P [02:56] slangasek: Haha! [02:56] slangasek, I'll make sure pitti knows you were to blame for that [02:56] NCommander: no, there's a specific backporters team, MOTUs aren't empowered to ack backports on their own [02:56] Or else I'm going to get yelled at for making his job hard [02:56] * StevenK is waiting for pitti to come back so we can run a broom through NBS [02:56] slangasek: i didn't think you were supposed to admit to that in a public channel? [02:56] slangasek, er, ubuntu-backporters which can add the archive admins to ack it [02:57] Right now, everything sitting on ScottK and jdong because I'm not an offical backporter so they need to ack everything before it goes to the arch admins [02:57] I'm hoping to start dapper backports next :-) [02:57] * NCommander hears the screaming === Pici` is now known as Pici [02:59] *sigh* I just got back on campus after 12 hours at the airport trying to convince the guy at the ticket counter that a 2:15 flight doesn't work at 3:01 even if the DOS window says it hasn't taken off.... [02:59] jdong, don't check your mailbox then if you don't want to have a worse day [02:59] and then had to convince the guy beside him Washington DC *does* do daylight savings time, and even if they didn't it would be an hour in the wrong way. [02:59] and too late. I did take a peek at the bug queues I was tending to before vaction. [02:59] and it doesn't look fun. [03:00] I tested every hardy backport [03:00] jdong: You want to talk to -> NCommander [03:00] That's 120-ish bugs [03:00] Hobbsee: that just makes more fun watching people try to prove it [03:00] plus in the coming 3 days I have to figure out what classes I am going to go to take this term :) [03:00] NCommander: if you've left comments on said bugs, I will be chewing through the queue this long weekend [03:00] jdong, yup [03:00] jdong, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports - No NEW bugs left [03:00] Now I need to start on gutsy [03:00] * NCommander hears swearing [03:01] jdong: it doesn't work even if the DOS window says it hasn't taken off, because the DOS window doesn't correspond to reality? [03:01] note above comment about stress of choosing MIT courses for this term; my progress here *may* be slow [03:01] slangasek: I think they're still having those airport system difficulties they were having earlier this week [03:01] slangasek: I really didn't want to be sent on a wild goose chase through a shuttle and two terminals to look at an empty boarding gate :) [03:01] jdong, well, I'm going to be in Boston sometime in September. If you want to flog me while I'm there for doing the testing grunt work, then we should meet up :-) [03:02] NCommander: cool :) hopefully the queue will be cleared by then [03:03] StevenK & jdong: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+question/43509 [03:04] *sigh* thanks for all the hard work that you've put into triaging these backports but please don't goof around with the bug reporting system :) [03:04] * NCommander zaps it [03:04] It was just a joke :-) [03:04] try Yahoo Answers [03:05] And now its not on hardy-backports anymore [03:05] * NCommander attached it to his private project [03:06] ok now to figure out where to steal food since that was the one thing I forgot to pack.... [03:06] I am guessing espresso beans have no nutritional content at 10:00PM [03:06] their nutritional content is slight, at all hours [03:07] it also tends to decay the longer you use them :) [03:07] also they tend not to be very filling [03:07] true, but without caffiene, most Ubuntu contributors would slowly be going insane as they fought sleep deprivation in the mornings [03:10] will I be surprised in a not-fun way if I update my Intrepid at the moment? [03:12] jdong, no issues here updating since the FF [03:18] jdong, roughly speaking, how bad is the backports-testers manpower, ScottK said it wasn't great, but I'm worried if I start attaching debdiffs to fix things that don't compile, its just going to sit and not get touched [03:27] I think you might want to take a step back and wait to see how the backport team manages the queue you've already given them, at this point [03:29] maybe a good idea [03:29] I can go work on FTBFS's for awhile [03:29] NCommander, I have something for you to do [03:30] shoot, cody-somerville [03:31] NCommander, call my bank and harass them as to where the wire containing my pay went - I'm rather hungry :P [03:31] * NCommander falls over [03:31] Ok, what's your account info, security information, bank, etc? [03:33] StevenK, backports and uploads aside, how are you in general? [03:33] StevenK is always horrible. [03:33] Haven't you met him? [03:34] no [03:34] But he sounds like an interesting individual to meet [03:34] Well, I'm sure you will in December. [03:34] What's December? [03:34] UDS [03:34] I can't afford a plane ticket to California ;.; [03:35] Thats why you'll get sponsorship [03:35] who in there right minds would sponsor me ;-)? [03:35] *their [03:35] mneptok [03:35] who or should I say what is that? [03:35] although mneptok is never in his right mind so that might be a trick question [03:36] * StevenK glares at cody-somerville [03:36] gah! [03:36] * cody-somerville ducks. [03:36] * NCommander watches cody-somerville explode from StevenK's glare [03:37] which comes the next question is how do I apply? [03:37] NCommander, I dunno if they take applications. It works a bit differently each release cycle. [03:37] (for sponsorship) [03:37] NCommander, They won't be looking at sponsorship until around October anyhow. [03:38] after intrepid+1 releases, right? [03:38] Well, usually they start sponsorship stuff roughly 3 months before UDS. This year, UDS is the second week of December. [03:38] Oh shoot [03:38] I remember we had this chat, and I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to go [03:38] Well, with a little luck I can [03:39] I don't remember having this chat but I'm glad you do :0 [03:39] It's at the Googleplex, right? [03:40] Indeed it is [03:41] * NCommander looks at his uni's schedule [03:41] So this is the 7-12th? [03:42] 7-13th most likely [03:42] actual summit is 8th-12th [03:43] That should work fine [03:44] * cody-somerville doesn't have much choice. [03:44] Well, your not an active student cody-somerville [03:44] I am ;-) [03:45] I'm a student :P [03:45] I learn everyday [03:45] I look forward to meeting all of you there then [03:47] NCommander, omgz, we can like form a posse like the server team does :P [03:48] ... [03:48] I work with too many subgroups. I'll have to divide myself. [03:48] The question is which group should get which bodypart ? [03:48] NCommander, I propose a new posse. The "I contribute to almost everything in Ubuntu" posse. [03:49] I need my postinst to behave differently depending on which binary package (from a common src package) is being installed. Is there a variable I can check, or should I have multiple postinst scripts, or is there yet a third alternative I have not imagined? [03:49] Nah, that's too exclusive and snotty, I'm an average joe [03:49] moquist, I personally recommend multiple postinst scripts [03:50] moquist: you don't get the package name available to you at runtime, no [03:50] OK. So if I just create .postinst and .postinst, that should do the trick. [03:50] moquist: because the postinst being executed is always extracted from the .deb, it's expected that the postinst already knows what package (and what package version) it comes from [03:50] yes [03:50] NCommander, slangasek: thx [03:51] you could create a common one too and munge it in debian/rules, if you find that more maintainable [03:51] oooooo [03:51] I'm not sure. I haven't tried breaking it up yet. [03:52] n/c [03:53] moquist: just don't write a 50-line abstraction in make that you use to generate all your maintainer scripts, like some developers I know :) [03:53] heh; not likely [03:54] would it be bad form (at least?) to simply chuck a config value into debconf that tells me which .config ran, which would tell postinst how to behave...? [03:57] slangasek, Is it possible to have a second Xubuntu experimental daily build that also pulls from a PPA? [03:57] moquist: mm, yes, that would be bad form. :) [03:57] cody-somerville: it's possible, but why is it needed? [03:58] well - anything's /possible/, but I don't actually know that pulling from PPAs is /feasible/ on antimony [03:58] (and it wouldn't make me particularly happy, personally) [03:59] slangasek, To make testing of xfce 4.6 easier. We're currently opting to keep 4.4 in the archive since there is uncertainty as to the Xfce4 project's ability to meet follow through on their time based release schedule after missing several deadlines. [03:59] hmm [03:59] slangasek: I've done those changes to livecd-rootfs. They aren't pretty. [04:00] Which is why I didn't push them into the bzr branch [04:00] cody-somerville: so were you wanting liveCDs, or just alternates? [04:00] I was thinking liveCDs [04:00] ouch [04:00] yeah, I don't think that would pass muster [04:01] since there's no trust path to ppas, and liveCDs run the maintainer scripts (== untrusted code) during building [04:03] Well, the only people who can upload to the PPA are going to be the same people who can upload to the archive once we do the archive reorganization. [04:04] TTBOMK, we don't have signed PPAs yet -- therefore there's no trust path to the PPA, regardless [04:04] However, I understand that doesn't negate trust concerns [04:04] * cody-somerville nods. [04:06] cody-somerville, it would be possible to build CDs ourselves, but due to the way cdimage works, it doesn't support laying multiple APT repositories over each other. If we would like to create a livecd, we'd likely have to use a different tool for it [04:06] (the only way to do it with cdimage is create a apt repo that has all of universe and main on it, and then upload the beta packages to that and let it run) [04:08] * _MMA_ would just use Reconstructor. As long as the PPA packages would upgrade over what's in the archive. [04:08] _MMA_, Reconstructor? [04:09] I would so use moblin-image-creator me self :P [04:09] <_MMA_> http://reconstructor.aperantis.com [04:10] damn [04:10] Handy tool [04:10] Well, it is past my bed time. I need to get my beauty sleep for my skydiving this weekend. [04:10] <_MMA_> cody-somerville: In any event, as long as you didn't need to do it daily (as it would be a pain) you could make the disk manually and upload it somewhere to get testing. [04:11] <_MMA_> NCommander: It's how *many* of the Ubuntu off-shoots are made. [04:11] damn [04:11] That would make my life easier [04:12] * _MMA_ goes back to his family. [04:14] oh boy, I just ate 3lbs of carved chicken breast... I think I'm gonna puke [04:16] jdong, O_O;;;;; [04:16] jdong, can you look at this one quickly? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/260998 [04:16] ubottu seems still broken [04:16] cody-somerville: i'm a left-brain type person :P [04:17] hello Mr. mneptok :-) [04:17] arr! [04:18] * NCommander hides [04:18] NCommander, where do I send my Matin Pitt's fanboys club membership dues to? [04:19] * Hobbsee runs a sword through mneptok [04:19] cody-somerville, Matin Pitt? [04:19] cody-somerville: lurve_that_goatee@pitti.org [04:19] NCommander, you're a member :P [04:19] :D mneptok [04:19] I haven't been charged dues yet [04:19] And even if they did, I got no money [04:30] * NCommander feels like he should be doing something [04:31] Argh. pitti.org is domain-squatted [04:33] rofl [04:33] Spammers love pitti too [04:34] * NCommander StevenK so what usually happens during UDS? [04:34] er [04:34] NCommander: Lots of planning, lots of drinking [04:34] I feel left out [04:35] I don't drink :-/ [04:35] (nor could I if I wanted to, I'm only 20) [04:35] Wait for UDS in Australia, the drinking age is 18 here [04:35] Doesn't change the fact that I just don't drink ;-) [04:41] StevenK: i'd actually start younger if i had to live in Oz. [04:41] * mneptok runs [04:41] Ha [04:47] * calc wishes bad things to the people who thought putting external libraries into OOo was a good idea :-( [04:47] lets add a bunch of libraries to OOo and patch them instead of doing the real foss thing and getting the changes upstream, GAR [04:51] calc: That reminds me of another FOSS project that I am involved with packaging/updating for UbuntuStudio. [05:03] What's the proper preprocessor symbol for detecting linux? [05:04] It's _LINUX, right? [05:16] NCommander: most of the code I've seen uses __linux__ [05:17] slangasek, yeah just to be sure ;) I'll get nick and/or thomas to take care of that [05:19] thanks lamont just making sure [05:20] NCommander, did you see my comment on the DKMS backport bug? [05:20] superm1, I did, just haven't reponsed yet [05:20] NCommander, ah okay [05:20] It's an issue of rdepends. When we do a backport, we have to check all the rdepends, [05:20] superm1, if your update breaks something in the kernel, we're going to get a LOT of pissed off users :-) [05:21] NCommander, nothing "in the kernel" depends on it that's installed by default. [05:21] there should be 1-3 different packages that use it, but they are all optional packages [05:21] But a lot of systems have restricted modules [05:21] And as a group, we can't test them [05:21] in hardy restricted modules aren't built by dkms [05:21] I have hardware for one of these modules [05:21] that starts with intrepid [05:21] Oh [05:21] THat's different [05:22] I apologize for that misunderstanding then ;-) [05:24] no problem. wouldn't have been clear if you were just joining development this time around [05:24] I'm testing to see if the dkms builds properly [05:24] &on hardy [05:24] if it does, I'll mark it confirmed, otherwise it goes to incomplete until someone can properly port it [05:25] i probably should have just attached my hardy build log to save that time, but more eyes doesn't hurt i suppose [05:25] We have to do it since we also test installability and such [05:25] Or at least I do [05:25] I'm not going to ack soemthing without confirming itmyself :-) [05:26] you've got backports! (mail) [05:29] superm1, I still see the dkms has rdepends [05:29] on hardy [05:30] yeah on envy packages and lirc-modules-source [05:31] nvidia too [05:31] hence the envy packages bit [05:34] superm1, I confirmed your dkms backport [05:35] thanks NCommander. btw since when are you part of ~ubuntu-backporters? I don't recall ever talking with you on backports in the past? [05:35] I'm not a backporter, I'm a tester [05:35] But there has been no testers so I ran the entire queue through the testing queue [05:35] (120-ish bugs) [05:36] I hope to join the backporters group once I become an MOTU [05:36] ah okay :) [05:36] that's good, the backporters group goes up on good runs and then dormant for a while [05:38] Well, I might have scared them off [05:38] They have gotten roughly 100-200 emails from me [05:39] So this week might be a "dormant" one [05:39] Yup [05:41] Once they start processing the queue, I'll work on the maybe fixing the backports that need real porting [05:41] NCommander: I only see 24. That's not so bad. [05:41] So did Pidgin end up keeping its reign? [05:43] ScottK, jdong got sick when he saw his inbox cause he has ALL of them I've done right along [05:43] ScottK, I'm proud of the fact that the new queue is 0 on hardy backports [05:43] Yeah, well I'm smart enough not to get the generic backports bugmail. [05:43] rofl [05:44] Care to look them over and move them to In Progress? [05:44] Doing it now. [05:44] It's a battle between the Scotch and it's effect on my typing to see how far I get. [05:45] I thought it would just be Launchpad [05:45] Launchpad is inept enough that I need to give it an advantage. [05:47] NCommander: Please make sure you say the package runs. [05:47] which one? [05:48] subtitleditor. Fortunately the original reporter already said it and I'm choosing to believe them. [05:50] Oh shoot, I ran it, forgot to note it >.<; [06:42] good morning [06:47] broonie: that 'someone' might or might not be mvo. Perhaps you should write him an email about that? - if in doubt, CC the ubuntu-server mailing list [06:54] ScottK, thanks for looking on the triaged bugs thus far [07:10] Any buildd admins alive? [07:10] or core devs who are willing to retry a build? [07:11] NCommander: Which one? [07:11] postfix on all architectures it failed [07:12] Soyuz marked it failure, it was actually a dep-wait [07:12] jpds, I'm currently working on fixing buildd to work on PPAs :-) [07:12] NCommander: Erm, okay, you need a core-dev as it doesn't work with me. [07:13] I guess that's been changed :-/ [07:14] jpds, for obvious reasons, I can't test scoring of PPAs, so you should test that for me once I post my branch [07:14] NCommander: u-d-t branch? [07:14] yes [07:14] Yay, more patches. [07:14] Any specific option you want for ppa's? [07:15] I was going to use --ppa but -p might be better [07:15] NCommander: You can have -p and --ppa, look at the # Retry options in trunk. [07:18] the what? [07:18] * NCommander is checking [07:18] NCommander: lines 43 - 48 in buildd. [07:19] Yeah [07:19] SO I'll add it at the end [07:19] I was going to make it buildd --ppa *other ops* [07:19] But if I move it towards the end, the code is cleaner :-) [07:21] Oh wait, I see [07:21] bah, I haven't done much with options parser [07:22] Cool paste and change the strings? :) [07:22] Copy* [07:24] Sorta working on that [07:24] This is fun [07:25] There is no great way to handle individual users and group PPA detector [07:28] jpds, I think we'll need a --ppa, and a --ppa-group :-/ [07:28] NCommander: Whatever adds ppa support. [07:29] Ok [07:32] Ugh [07:33] I need to extend checkSourceExists [07:33] Laney: the reason there wasn't an alternate CD yesterday was that I was trying to do too many things at once when uploading debian-installer the previous night and as a result it failed to build. That's fixed now so we should get new alternate CDs shortly. [08:28] Um, what do I file a bug against if my machine decides to fsck /home, but continues booting while fscking so I don't have a home directory? [08:28] I'd go for sysvinit [08:28] (which still provides initscripts) [08:28] cjwatson: Thanks. [08:30] Ah, bug #255562. [08:30] Launchpad bug 255562 in sysvinit "Parallel fsck leads to unhelpful error message at login" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255562 [09:04] Hi All [09:05] How can i compile my C++ programs in Ubuntu? [09:05] !b-e | Fahrenheit [09:05] Fahrenheit: Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first) [09:08] So is Pidgin default in Intrepid? [09:09] luckily [09:09] is the current intrepid shutdown dialog a temporary thing? [09:09] ogra: Agreed. [09:09] Ng, there was a discussion on the dekstop ML or so i think ... or on ubuntu-devel [09:09] ah [09:10] it's..... pretty horrible, and it suggests that if you don't pick an option it will just shut down after a minute, same for the logout. that seems even worse than being ugly, it's potentially harmful :/ [09:11] lukehasnoname, i like it, but it has massive security issues with IRC ... like ignroring the /msg command ... so "/msg nickserv passwd" is automatically exposed to the channel :) [09:11] i dont get why they filter irc commands in irc (btw /me works) [09:11] Ng, it shuts down for you ? [09:12] youre a lucky guy [09:12] the shutdown part works on none of my systems here [09:12] i have to log out and shut down from gdm everywhere [09:12] ogra: I don't know, I never use Shutdown, I only ever Suspend, so having it shutdown for me if I fail to click anything for a minute would be really quite annoying ;) [09:13] yeah [09:13] also havig two dialogs is annoying and bloats the menu [09:15] Ng, mdz asked that in "Subject: Logout dialog (Re: Installation report: Ubuntu desktop 20080723 amd64)" on -devel [09:15] cool, got it [09:15] seens the new dialog comes from opensuse [09:15] and upstream will keep it that way [09:17] * ogra sometimes wonders what they smoke at suse ... they also designed that horrible control center shell there :) [09:17] I don't know about Ibex, but I like Hardy's menu just fine [09:17] and effing with it for the sake of changing it is something I'm against [09:17] intrepid has two dislogs instead [09:17] one for logout [09:17] boo urns [09:17] one for suspend/resume/reboot [09:18] (and halt) [09:18] phail [09:20] What sucks is that if I want to continue using Ubuntu without some "major" customizations of my own I need to to to Ibex (wireless N networking, several major package upgrades, and some other stuff) but people seem determined to change so many things for the sake of changing it. [09:20] Of course they have their own little rationale, but they're often wrong :) [09:23] can i compile C# or VB in ubuntu? [09:23] mono [09:24] sudo apt-get install monodevelop gmcs [09:25] Fahrenheit, this isnt really the right channel to discuss app developent ... its for discussing development of ubuntu, not for development on ubuntu :) [09:25] :) [09:26] I'm still right though [09:27] whrere can i ask these Qs? [09:27] ubuntuforums.org or ##linux or #ubuntu [09:27] well, #ubuntu-motu comes closer to it but i'm not sure they o beond packaging much [09:28] *go [09:28] try it :) [09:28] lukehasnoname: #mono ;) [09:28] euh [09:28]