[00:00] <RAOF> And neither of the commonly used mpeg4 profiles, I guess.
[00:01] <RAOF> You know the problem with CDBS-simple-patchsys?  The patches don't often have any justification headers.
[00:04] <slangasek> the problem with cdbs-simple-patchsys is that a debdiff only ever shows an added patch, you don't have to add it to a sequence file, so you can't tell from a diff review alone whether it's done right
[00:04] <RAOF> I'll admit, there are other defects.  That's just the one that annoyed me now :)
[00:05] <RAOF> My gnome-power-manager has a nice set of lintian warnings.
[00:06] <RAOF> Hm.  It occurs to me that is only unambiguous when spoken.  "My my, gnome-..." :)
[00:09] <NCommander> slangasek, how's that different from quilt?
[00:09] <slangasek> NCommander: ... because there *is* a sequence file, and you can tell at a glance whether the patch has been added there?
[00:09] <NCommander> oh
[00:09] <NCommander> d'oh
[00:09]  * NCommander runs
[00:10] <slangasek> and also see from the diff whether it's an addition to the file or a new file, so if it's the first patch you know to look closer to make sure debian/rules invokes quilt
[00:12] <NCommander> ah
[00:40] <NCommander> hey LaserJock
[00:42] <LaserJock> hi
[00:44] <NCommander> LaserJock, did you get my comments on the backport
[00:44] <LaserJock> NCommander: yep
[00:46] <NCommander> Patches are welcome
[00:46] <NCommander> :-)
[00:46] <LaserJock> patches?
[00:51] <NCommander> To fix git-buildpackage on hardy so it installs
[00:51] <LaserJock> well, I can just upload it if I want ;-)
[00:56] <jscinoz> HMM
[00:56] <jscinoz> anyone else notice that Revu seems to break for a package everytime you upload a new revision
[00:56] <jscinoz> but seems to sort it self out a day or so later.
[00:57] <jscinoz> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=google-gadgets fails and presents the user with a traceback >_<
[00:59] <wgrant> I think that's it more likely that you keep finding bugs in it, and people keep fixing them.
[01:28] <NCommander> its nice to know my code changes to revu broke things miserably
[01:28] <NCommander> wgrant, hola
[01:33] <NCommander> hola persia
[01:46] <wgrant> NCommander: Hi. Remarkably bad timing you have there.
[01:46] <NCommander> wgrant, why?
[01:46] <wgrant> NCommander: Catching me just a few minutes after I left.
[01:47] <NCommander> wgrant, oh :-P
[01:55] <NCommander> wgrant, well, I always have bad timing
[01:55] <NCommander> I'm told my mom went into labor at a very inconvenient time
[02:02] <wgrant> Wow, -synaptics is rather busted.
[02:10] <NCommander> wgrant, ?
[05:19] <RAOF> I don't want to let my membership of ~motu expire, do I?
[05:22] <jdong> RAOF: you don't want a life, do you?
[05:23] <RAOF> I mean, it's not one of the teams that are deprecated.
[05:23] <jdong> RAOF: it's the real team (the new one) isn't it?
[05:24] <RAOF> Maybe? :)
[05:24] <RAOF> There's also ~ubuntu-dev
[05:25] <RAOF> Eh.  I'll hit "renew" anyway.
[05:25]  * ajmitch is expired out of ~ubuntu-dev as well
[05:25] <jdong> ubuntu-dev is the old one I thought.
[05:27] <superm1> i thought ubuntu-dev was the parent one
[05:27] <superm1> for ~motu and ~core-dev
[05:27] <jdong> really?
[05:27] <jdong> that could be.
[05:27] <jdong> doesn't make sense for it to expire then
[05:28] <superm1> RAOF, i think it would be funny though if it did expire and to renew it post expiration you had to perform a challenge
[05:28] <superm1> like fix 35 bugs in 24 hours in a maximum of 3 packages or something
[05:28] <superm1> make things interesting
[05:28] <jdong> lol
[05:29]  * ajmitch goes to file 40 bugs
[05:29] <jdong> "HAHA you're 1 minute 35s too late... Now package eclipse 3.4"
[05:29] <RAOF> BA BAW!
[05:34] <Hobbsee> RAOF: i think you're only allowed to renew the ones you're suspposed to renew
[05:34] <RAOF> Hobbsee: As in: you'll only be _asked_ about renewing the ones you're supposed to renew?
[05:35]  * ScottK looks for some crackish stuff to upload, because it appears to be the in thing to do.
[05:35] <Hobbsee> RAOF: no, you'll get asked about all of them.
[05:35] <Hobbsee> RAOF: you'll have to contact a team admin for those you aren't to review, usually.
[05:35] <Hobbsee> ScottK: automatix3?
[05:35] <RAOF> ScottK: I suggest xserver-xgl.
[05:35] <ScottK> I said crackish, not insane.
[05:35] <RAOF> Crap.  Xserver-xgl.
[05:35] <StevenK> How about noveau?
[05:36] <superm1> how about a windows binary inside a source package again?
[05:36] <RAOF> That's some high-grade crack that people enjoy!
[05:36] <ScottK> superm1: If it's licensed correctly and depends on WINE, I can see where that might not be totally insane.
[05:36]  * RAOF wonders how many people would care if xserver-xgl were to accidentally 'disappear'
[05:37] <RAOF> Hey, popcon might answer that.
[05:37] <jdong> RAOF: oh trust me those would be the worst complaints
[05:37]  * ajmitch would care, deeply
[05:37] <jdong> RAOF: people with the worst graphics cards in the world who also want to do 3D compositing effects?
[05:37] <jdong> *shudder*
[05:37] <RAOF> They need to be using <= Geforce2 before xgl is actually needed, right?
[05:40] <RAOF> Popcon thinks ~30K people have xserver-xgl installed, making it 399th on the 'by vote' list.
[05:40] <ajmitch> hysterical raisins?
[05:40] <RAOF> With the small problem that it's crap, barely maintained upstream, and will take a lot of work to get it to build again.
[05:40] <superm1> RAOF, is there a date that is assigned to?
[05:41] <superm1> maybe 30k had it assigned at it's peak
[05:41] <superm1> but now only 10 do
[05:41] <ajmitch> RAOF: just because it's removed from the archive, doesn't mean that people can't keep it installed if they really need it
[05:41] <superm1> and if you aren't rebuilding it again anytime soon, that's no better than the current
[05:42] <superm1> removing it just prevents more people from making a mistake
[05:42] <RAOF> True.  Ah... by vote it's only 2.5K used recently.
[05:43] <ajmitch> there are probably still people using beryl
[05:43] <RAOF> Right, that's enough for me.  Let's go file a removal request.
[05:44] <ajmitch> beryl does show up on popcon, how unfortunate
[05:44] <RAOF> Really?  Where?
[05:44] <ajmitch> by_inst
[05:44] <RAOF> :(
[06:24] <tuxmaniac> heya gang
[06:25] <tbielawa> ALO
[06:25] <tbielawa> - caps, sorry
[06:42] <dholbach> good morning
[06:46] <quentusrex_lapto>  I'm trying to find out what is the best practice to create a package modifying package. I want to create a package for my local network that will modify settings files of other packages. But something that will withstand upgrading the original package.
[07:00] <LaserJock> is there a motu-release person around?
[07:02] <quentusrex_lapto> nope...
[07:02] <dholbach> hey Koon!
[07:02] <Koon> hello Daniel !
[07:02] <Koon> How are you today ?
[07:03] <dholbach> very good - how 'bout you?
[07:03] <dholbach> somebody should add a patch to wtf so it knows what TGIF means :)
[07:04] <Koon> good - good, but it's a good thing it's Friday, you're right
[07:04] <dholbach> :-)
[07:05] <dholbach> before our holidays we were in constant hectic and people visiting us on the weekend, after our holidays the same
[07:05] <dholbach> so it's the first time in like 8 weeks or something that I'm going to buy records on the weekend again
[07:05] <dholbach> yoohoo :)
[07:05]  * dholbach missed doing that
[07:06] <Koon> dholbach: the visiting-on-weekends season isn't over here, we still have visitors this weekend. But next week should be alright :)
[07:06] <TheMuso> LaserJock: If you are still around, I am around.
[07:10] <dholbach> :-)
[07:10] <LaserJock> TheMuso: I've got a multiverse upstream ISV that wants to get a new version of their package into Intrepid (well and Hardy but I'm not going there yet)
[07:11] <LaserJock> TheMuso: would a FFe be a good idea or do you guys really care?
[07:11] <TheMuso> LaserJock: an FFE would be a good idea, but at this point it will likely have no problem getting through.
[07:12] <LaserJock> TheMuso: ok, I just wondered since it's all binary. There's not much of a diff to look at
[07:13] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Right.
[07:13] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Do it early and we likely won't even look, just wave it through.
[07:14] <LaserJock> TheMuso: k, they sent me an email with packages today. I'll likely get to it before the weekend is done
[07:14] <TheMuso> righto
[08:30] <Iulian> Good morning
[08:31] <jpds> Morning.
[08:31]  * NCommander is bored
[08:31] <NCommander> jpds, know any good bugs that need work, or general release tasks?
[08:32] <jpds> NCommander: bug #261930
[08:32] <Iulian> Hey Jonathan.
[08:33] <NCommander> What's the work on the fix so far?
[08:33] <jpds> NCommander: None, bzr only marked the branch cos I put the wrong number after commit --fixes.
[08:33] <NCommander> whoops ;-)
[08:42] <geser> good morning
[08:44] <Iulian> Morning geser
[08:45] <huats> morning everyone
[08:47] <Iulian> Hey
[10:08] <NCommander> Ok
[10:21] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[10:22] <dholbach> hi sistpoty|work
[10:22] <sistpoty|work> hi dholbach
[10:26] <huats> hello guys sistpoty|work and dholbach
[10:27] <sistpoty|work> hi huats
[10:27] <dholbach> hi huats
[10:27] <huats> o/
[10:42] <didrocks> dholbach: thanks for the upload :)
[10:45] <dholbach> didrocks: de rien
[10:45] <didrocks> :)
[10:49] <dholbach> soren: new storm! :)
[11:24] <Raybuntu> Hi all, i want to package this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/262230 but there is only a ppa where I can download the sources. Can I use the ppa?
[11:42] <cjwatson> Process question: does anyone mind if somebody from ubuntu-release approves something that would normally be motu-release's job? The case at hand is bug 258989 that I think looks fine and seems to be fairly low-risk
[11:42] <cjwatson> Put another way, should ubuntu-release be a member of motu-release?
[11:43] <cjwatson> Also, I note that motu-release has no administrators. Presumably adding and removing members still needs to be done by Riddell, even though he's deactivated?
[11:45] <dholbach> cjwatson: I think somebody of motu-council asked Riddell to pass over admin-ship, but I'm not sure who that was
[11:45] <Riddell> I seem to remember that too, I expect I forgot about it
[11:45] <dholbach> DktrKranz2 and sistpoty|work might be able to answer the other question
[11:46] <Riddell> (not least because I've never had anything to do with motu-release)
[11:46] <cjwatson> Riddell: aside from owning the team you mean? :)
[11:47] <Riddell> yeah, apart from that
[11:47] <dholbach> cjwatson: being deactivated has the advantage of not getting their bug mail :)
[11:47] <Riddell> who's a good person to change the owner to?
[11:48] <sistpoty|work> hm... imo it makes sense that ubuntu-release can approve any motu-release requests...
[11:49] <sistpoty|work> we'll have a motu-release meeting in 12 minutes btw, I'll add that to the agenda (which only exists in my brain so far *g*)=
[11:49] <Riddell> if I add ubuntu-release to the motu-release team will that mean extra bug mail for ubuntu-release?
[11:50] <sistpoty|work> Riddell: no idea actually...
[11:50] <soren> dholbach: re storm: Well, yes, but FF?
[11:50] <sistpoty|work> however I guess such a policy wouldn't necessarily need to be reflected by team membership ;)
[11:51] <dholbach> soren: man... it has debugging now and is supposed to be faster in some parts!
[11:51] <soren> dholbach: Alright, I'll file an FFe. On Monday. I've got the day off.
[11:52] <dholbach> soren: take it easy
[11:52] <dholbach> soren: if you need someone to test it, let me know - harvest uses storm
[11:52] <sistpoty|work> Riddell: maybe you could make motu-council the team owner? or would that cause bug mails to MC (dholbach?)?
[11:52] <dholbach> sistpoty|work: not if MC is the owner, but deactivated in the team AFAIK
[11:53] <sistpoty|work> ah :)
[11:53] <dholbach> hey norsetto
[11:53]  * dholbach hugs norsetto
[11:53]  * norsetto hugs dholback back
[11:55] <Riddell> "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page."  oh well, guess I can't change the owner
[11:55] <TheMuso> ScottK, sistpoty|work, DktrKranz, norsetto, will we meet in #ubuntu-meeting?
[11:55] <norsetto> TheMuso: yes
[11:55] <cjwatson> Riddell: extra bug mail> I think anyone in ubuntu-release should be able to cope
[11:56] <cjwatson> (since they probably get more bug mail than they can read anyway so who cares ...)
[12:00] <NCommander> TheMuso, can you do me a favor? I need a few builds retried but I need a core-dev to reset the build-record
[12:00] <NCommander> (after the meeting)
[12:03] <ScottK> NCommander: Simple bug fixes don't need motu-release approval.
[12:03] <NCommander> Yeah, got your email
[12:03]  * NCommander hides in his corner
[12:03] <emgent> moin
[12:03] <NCommander> morning ember
[12:03] <NCommander> er emgent
[12:04] <NCommander> damn autocomplete
[12:04] <emgent> :)
[12:06] <dholbach> Riddell: accepted the invitation, now how do I make it owner or change the parcipation status? :)
[12:07] <Riddell> dholbach: I just made motu-council an administrator
[12:07] <Riddell> but I can't change the owner
[12:08] <dholbach> hum
[12:08] <dholbach> Riddell: let's talk to the guys in #launchpad
[12:10] <geser> NCommander: re your alsaplayer debdiff: how do I apply it because the usual patch -p1 or -p0 don't work (and the dpatch doesn't look like a usual dpatch)
[12:10] <NCommander> geser, just run the patch target, it runs fine
[12:10] <NCommander> I used dpatch-edit-patch on intrepid which seemingly changes things
[12:10] <Flannel> Riddell: I believe owner can only be changed by either a) the owner, or b) LP guys (or c] the previous owner leaves the team?)
[12:11] <Riddell> I am the owner (for some unkent reason)
[12:11] <Flannel> Alright, then a must not be true :)
[12:12] <geser> NCommander: http://paste.ubuntu.com/41509/
[12:12] <NCommander> geser, dpatches aren't valid "patchs"
[12:12] <NCommander> YOu have to use dpatch to apply it
[12:13] <NCommander> Oh wait
[12:13] <NCommander> The debdiff came out screwy
[12:13] <directhex> isn't the reverse the case?
[12:13] <NCommander> WTF
[12:13] <NCommander> I think I reversed the patch
[12:14] <directhex> AFAIK dpatches are patches
[12:14] <directhex> jms@osc-franzibald:/tmp/mono-1.9.1+dfsg$ patch -p1 < debian/patches/remove_arg_max_check_r101444.dpatch
[12:14] <directhex> patching file mono/io-layer/wapi_glob.c
[12:15] <NCommander> geser, http://paste.ubuntu.com/41511/
[12:16] <cjwatson> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+reassign ?
[12:16] <cjwatson> oh, never mind, just caught up on #launchpad
[12:17] <geser> NCommander: hmm, still the same
[12:18] <dholbach> cjwatson: so you're sure about adding ubuntu-release as a member?
[12:18] <NCommander> The patch looks valid O_o;
[12:18] <cjwatson> dholbach: it's fine from our point of view
[12:18] <NCommander> Please someone else test it so I'm sure I'm not loosing my mind
[12:19] <dholbach> cjwatson: ok.. I'll wait for sistpoty|work's go-ahead after the meeting
[12:20] <sistpoty|work> dholbach, cjwatson: was already discussed, no objections
[12:20] <dholbach> alrighty
[12:20] <cjwatson> cool, thanks
[12:21] <dholbach> cjwatson: invitation went out
[12:29] <dholbach> cjwatson: let me know when you accepted it
[12:41] <cjwatson> dholbach: it doesn't seem to be reaching me so far ...
[12:41] <dholbach> hum
[12:41] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+members shows ubuntu-release as pending
[12:41] <cjwatson> my procmail.log has no record of it
[12:42] <huats> norsetto: you are here also !!!
[12:42] <dholbach> cjwatson: Does https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+invitations reveal anything?
[12:42] <norsetto> I'm not, really :-)
[12:42] <huats> ;)
[12:43] <cjwatson> dholbach: ah, yes, I'll accept it that way; thanks
[12:44] <dholbach> de rien
[12:45]  * dholbach rushes out for lunch
[12:48] <norsetto> huats: any chance you can help suman?
[12:49] <huats> norsetto: I don't see what you are refereing too...
[12:49] <huats> but I'd be happy to help
[12:50] <norsetto> huats: mentoring reception, find him a mentor, etc.
[12:50] <huats> norsetto: sure
[12:50] <huats> but I haven't see the message...
[12:50] <huats> let me check again...
[12:51] <norsetto> sorry, I mispelled the name, is sourav
[12:51] <norsetto> huats: sorry, I mispelled the name, is sourav
[12:52] <huats> I haven't received the email
[12:52] <huats> norsetto: I have seen it in the queue waiting for approval
[12:52] <huats> and nothing then
[12:52] <huats> I guessed he cancelled it...
[12:53] <norsetto> huats: I approved it
[12:53] <huats> ok
[12:53] <huats> but I haven't received it
[12:53] <huats> ok
[12:53] <huats> I'll check the archives
[12:53] <huats> and I'll take car of him
[12:58] <huats> nxvl: hello and congrats !!!!
[13:00] <nxvl> huats: hello and thank you
[13:00] <nxvl> good morning everyone!
[13:00] <huats> :)
[13:02] <RainCT> heya
[13:02] <quentusrex_lapto> Hello all.
[13:04] <quentusrex_lapto> I'm setting up an internal apt repo for my company. This way we can have better control of what software can be installed, and what updates are installed and when. Can we replace the 'components' settings from main non-free contrib to our own custom components? such as beta, update, stable?
[13:04] <directhex> yes
[13:05] <quentusrex_lapto> I want something along the lines of |Ubuntu-> Updates, Beta, Stable-> Accounting, Sales, Office,
[13:06] <quentusrex_lapto> how would I do this? I'm using reprepro.
[13:09] <quentusrex_lapto> What do I set the components to?
[13:10] <directhex> i haven't used that software before. but generally, you can use anything you like as long as it's properly represented in all the files
[13:10] <quentusrex_lapto> How do I setup multiple nested groups?
[13:11] <quentusrex_lapto> Like there will be Ubuntu->Beta->Accounting ; and there will be Ubuntu->Stable->Accounting
[13:11] <directhex> don't. 1 layer of nesting only. just use dashes
[13:11] <quentusrex_lapto> dashes?
[13:11] <quentusrex_lapto> oh, like
[13:11] <directhex> beta-accounting
[13:11] <quentusrex_lapto> ok
[13:12] <directhex> your dist/release defines a list of components, not a tree
[13:12] <quentusrex_lapto> ok
[13:12] <directhex> so dist/release should just list every possible component you might want in that dist. juggle dists and components to suit
[13:12] <quentusrex_lapto> oh, ok
[13:12] <quentusrex_lapto> So could I set the dist to Updates, Beta and Stable
[13:13] <quentusrex_lapto> and the components to accounting, sales, office, etc?
[13:13] <directhex> yeah
[13:14] <quentusrex_lapto> ok
[13:14] <quentusrex_lapto> how would I integrate updates from the official repo into my repo?
[13:16] <quentusrex_lapto> Since the official updates and packages don't follow my 'custom' layout?
[13:17] <cjwatson> quentusrex_lapto: FWIW, if this were Ubuntu, we'd model beta, update, stable as pockets (i.e. hardy-beta, hardy-update, hardy-stable) rather than as components
[13:18] <cjwatson> the general idea is that a package is typically only in one component at a time (per release, anyway), but that different versions of a package may be in different pockets
[13:20] <quentusrex_lapto> by pockets you mean dists?
[13:21] <directhex> sort of
[13:22] <directhex> hardy-beta different from dapper-beta and so on, just in case
[13:22] <quentusrex_lapto> aah
[13:23] <quentusrex_lapto> but if I an only allowing a single release then it's fine.
[13:23] <directhex> aye
[13:23] <quentusrex_lapto> I'm sticking with the LTS 8.04.1
[13:24] <directhex> good choice
[13:24] <cjwatson> err, so, a pocket is like "security updates to 8.04" versus "8.04"
[13:24] <cjwatson> I assume (hope!) you're incorporating security updates rather than just using 8.04.1 as-is
[13:24] <quentusrex_lapto> How would I integrate official updates into my system?
[13:24] <cjwatson> our pockets for 8.04 are hardy (original release), hardy-security, hardy-updates, hardy-proposed, hardy-backports
[13:24] <directhex> just make sure security.ubuntu.com is also in sources.list
[13:25] <directhex> i.e. all the usual ubuntu sources as well as your private one
[13:25] <quentusrex_lapto> but I don't want all the usual ubuntu sources
[13:25]  * cjwatson reads "This way we can have better control of what software can be installed, and what updates are installed and when" and suspects that is not desirable
[13:25] <quentusrex_lapto> right
[13:26] <quentusrex_lapto> I only want authorized software to be able to be installed.
[13:26] <quentusrex_lapto> like no games...
[13:26] <cjwatson> you'll have to develop scripts to download updates (maybe using debmirror?) and move them into your archive when checked
[13:26] <quentusrex_lapto> right
[13:26] <quentusrex_lapto> I want to download all the updates into the folder updates
[13:27] <directhex> i've done that before, for a remastered dapper CD
[13:27] <quentusrex_lapto> then as I make sure they work, I'll move them into the folders so that others can update
[13:27] <cjwatson> you would have to effectively reupload those updates to reprepro (or possibly convince it that they've been "uploaded" by some back door)
[13:27] <cjwatson> I don't know reprepro as such
[13:27]  * directhex is old-skool; uses apt-ftparchive
[13:27] <cjwatson> but that's the general model we use for syncing updates from Debian
[13:27] <quentusrex_lapto> hmm
[13:28] <quentusrex_lapto> I don't mind custom building the scripts myself.
[13:29] <cjwatson> we do it by fetching each source package (you'd probably want to fetch binaries too) and regenerating the .changes file
[13:29] <quentusrex_lapto> hmm
[13:29] <cjwatson> this approach means you can use your archive management toolset to rebuild Packages files and such rather than having to do it yourself
[13:30] <cjwatson> (as simply putting the files in the right directories achieves roughly zip)
[13:30] <directhex> rebuilding Packages is easy enough with some gentle apt-ftparchive-fu
[13:31] <directhex> or reprepo maybe. like i said, never used it
[13:31] <laga> hum
[13:32] <laga> so, you don't want your users to install games? in order to install software, they need to be root. which means they can edit sources.list or bring some debs on a thumb drive
[13:32] <directhex> well, i WAS wondering that
[13:32] <directhex> you even need rootiness to click apply in update-manager
[13:34] <quentusrex_lapto> would there be an easy way to be able to automatically add the ubuntu package updates? if I haven't custom build the package myself?
[13:34] <quentusrex_lapto> I'll give them sudo ability
[13:34] <quentusrex_lapto> which is fine with me.
[13:35] <directhex> then they can install whatever they like, with a well-placed sudo dpkg -i
[13:35] <quentusrex_lapto> yes they can...
[13:35] <quentusrex_lapto> but not without going out of their way to do it
[13:37] <quentusrex_lapto> if they go out of their way to do it, then if they do something that get's them in trouble then....
[13:39] <quentusrex_lapto> so,
[13:42] <quentusrex_lapto> back to my latest question. How do I let most packages from the official repo into my system, and be able to apply the updates easily. But the packages I customized I have to update myself.
[13:45] <quentusrex_lapto> alright, I think I'll move to a different question
[13:45] <quentusrex_lapto> How do I update packages? I mean if I have a large 300mb package and I only need to make a single change. Can I apply only the update?
[13:46] <quentusrex_lapto> if they want to install the whole package then they download the whole thing, but the update only needs the small update rather than the whole thing.
[13:46] <quentusrex_lapto> ?
[13:47] <cjwatson> we don't support delta updates, no
[13:48] <cjwatson> generally we try not to have 300mb packages for all kinds of reasons, not that that always works :)
[13:48] <quentusrex_lapto> hmm....
[13:48] <quentusrex_lapto> ok
[13:49] <quentusrex_lapto> so to update something like that I'd have to generate another large file?
[13:49] <cjwatson> that's correct
[13:50] <cjwatson> (in general. in specific cases sometimes it's possible to drop another file in place using a new package in order to effect a change)
[13:53] <quentusrex_lapto> hmm
[14:16] <gaspa> zul: libxen3 has a quite funny Replaces: => libxen3.2 (<< libxen3.2-3.2.0-0ubuntu3)
[14:16] <gaspa> is there a reason or simply a mistake?
[14:21] <zul> gaspa: could be a bug
[14:23] <sistpoty|work> gaspa: that's a mistake, since a newer version of the same package will always replace the older version
[14:24] <ScottK> sistpoty|work: Not the same package.
[14:24] <sistpoty|work> ScottK: hm?
[14:24] <ScottK> libxen3 vs libxen3.2
[14:24] <gaspa> li﻿bxen3.2 and libxen3 aren't the same package
[14:24] <gaspa> ScottK: ;)
[14:24] <sistpoty|work> oh, indeed... I've misread that :)
[14:25] <ScottK> Easy one to miss.
[14:25] <gaspa> sistpoty|work: anyway, i was only curious for the strange version number.
[14:26] <sistpoty|work> unrelated, it still seems to be a problem, if a library conflicts/replaces against an older version (with a different name), as then these are not coinstallable... xen might be special there though
[14:30] <cjwatson> sometimes mistakes happen and coinstallability needs to be sacrificed. I haven't checked this particular case though
[14:31] <cjwatson> I note that libxen3 ships some unversioned file names
[14:38] <quentusrex_lapto> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto.en.html#debian-repository-example
[14:38] <quentusrex_lapto> How can I setup more than one level tree?
[14:38] <quentusrex_lapto> that is the 'standard' setup for debian. it has more than 3 levels...
[14:43] <\sh> sistpoty|work: peng
[14:43]  * sistpoty|work falls heavily wounded to the ground
[14:43] <sistpoty|work> \sh: argggggg
[14:43] <sistpoty|work> *g*
[14:44] <\sh> sistpoty|work: bug #256261 the bug is won't fix, because kdm is started in S99 :)
[14:44] <\sh> can i has core dev now?
[14:44] <directhex> quentusrex_lapto, it's not more than three levels - it's 2 deep, with required cruft
[14:44] <\sh> sistpoty|work: I think this guy upgraded from hardy to intrepid without apt-get install kubuntu-desktop again, because if he had only kde4 from the ppas there is no direct upgrade path
[14:44] <sistpoty|work> \sh: actually it's confirmed, and my system says it's started in s19 or so :P
[14:45] <directhex> quentusrex_lapto, the only levels in it are the entries in "dists" (unstable, testing, stable) and the components in those dists (main, contrib, non-free)
[14:45] <\sh> sistpoty|work: which version of kdm package do you have?
[14:45] <sistpoty|work> \sh: 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu8
[14:45] <\sh> give me a sec
[14:46] <sistpoty|work> \sh: the postinst script is quite weird to read, and imo fails to correctly update the rc.d... I already looked ;)
[14:46] <quentusrex_lapto> ok
[14:46] <quentusrex_lapto> so there are still only 2 levels? dist and components?
[14:46] <\sh> sistpoty|work: strange...
[14:47] <sistpoty|work> \sh: maybe dependencies get created by lsb headers nowadays? (in case these are present)
[14:47] <sistpoty|work> \sh: then it would be a really simple fix :)
[14:47] <\sh> sistpoty|work: fun part even on hardy + ppa packages it's S99...could be that it picks it up during upgrade
[14:47] <\sh> if vmware would work on intrepid I would have tested it now with a clean install
[14:48] <sistpoty|work> \sh: whatever it is, it's a pain to always need to restart kdm after booting *g*
[14:48] <\sh> sistpoty|work: really, I never had that problem...
[14:49] <sistpoty|work> why always /me? *g*
[14:49] <\sh> you can't has pony ,,)
[14:49] <ScottK> sistpoty|work: Because you should be helping develop Kubuntu, not just using it.
[14:50] <sistpoty|work> heh
[14:50] <\sh> genau
[15:28] <laga> could someone please review a mythtv theme on REVU? it's supposed to go in for intrepid :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-metallurgy-wide
[15:44] <sistpoty|work> laga: it's quite dark, but the icons are nice :P
[15:46] <laga> sistpoty|work: there are darker ones. check out project grayhem :)
[15:46] <sistpoty|work> heh
[15:47] <sistpoty|work> superm1: to answer your mail, there will be minutes... just kick NCommander, as he has the duty to write them ;)
[16:01] <vadi2> Hi, I have a quick question. in 8.10, some boost -dev packages are version 1.35, while normal packages are 1.34
[16:02] <vadi2> oh oops, ignore that
[16:03] <Iulian> Huh
[16:05] <sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :D
[16:05] <sistpoty|work> hi sebner
[16:05] <sebner> dholbach: sry for twiki, I had a really bad day on wednesday :\
[16:06] <dholbach> np
[16:06] <sebner> dholbach: though I'm wondering that some of my syncs didn't make it but had the tag
[16:07] <dholbach> which tag?
[16:09] <sebner> dholbach: the pre-ff tag
[16:09] <dholbach> sebner: right... seems we didn't have enough people reviewing stuff
[16:10] <sebner> dholbach: ah ok. but seems funny since persia was pushing and pushing :)
[16:11] <sebner> dholbach: btw, can you give me an advice for bug #261991 ?
[16:13] <sebner> \o/ ScottK-laptop
[16:13] <geser> sebner: what kind of advice do you need?
[16:13] <ScottK-laptop> ?
[16:13] <sebner> geser: can you tell me why I would need a FF? no new upstream ... or is main different than universe?
[16:14] <dholbach> sebner: no you don't need one - no new upstream version
[16:14] <sebner> dholbach: sponsors shouldn't confuse contributors xD
[16:14] <geser> sebner: don't forget to comment on the current ubuntu delta
[16:15] <directhex> so do i or don't i need to get a FFe for a package which was put in the sponsorship queue before FF? i've heard conflicting reports
[16:15] <sebner> geser: comment?
[16:15] <sebner> directhex: is it a sync?
[16:16] <directhex> sebner, it's a merge.
[16:16] <sebner> directhex: new upstream?
[16:16] <DktrKranz> sebner: the only thing it could be worth asking a FF is
[16:16] <DktrKranz>    * Patch the source to use 1.0 basic release of the ttf-sil-andika fonts and
[16:16] <DktrKranz>      not the "design review" version.
[16:16] <geser> sebner: forget it, I thought it was a sync
[16:16] <sebner> geser: nvm
[16:17] <sebner> DktrKranz: ahoi mate
[16:17] <sebner> directhex: if yes then yes
[16:17] <directhex> sebner, yes.
[16:17] <directhex> sebner, sigh. right then.
[16:17] <DktrKranz> other than that, I really don't see why motu-release should consider this
[16:18] <sebner> DktrKranz: I also thought so ;)
[16:18] <directhex> sebner, a new bug, or modifying the merge request?
[16:18] <sebner> directhex: just modify the bug
[16:18] <sebner> DktrKranz: congratulations btw for being a motu-release member now :)
[16:18] <DktrKranz> sebner: am I?
[16:19] <sebner> DktrKranz: I thought so O_o
[16:19] <DktrKranz> can you look in the future? could you please tell me next NBA champion? :)
[16:20]  * sebner is searching his crystal ball 
[16:20] <directhex> oh, intercourse's sake. diffstat versus version in ubuntu? version in ubuntu is obsolete and inappropriate. that's the point!
[16:21] <ScottK-laptop> We're working on obsoleting that requirement.
[16:22] <directhex> especially when i did the damn debian version in the first place
[16:23] <ScottK-laptop> directhex: If you leave that out, I might fail to notice.
[16:25] <directhex> what's the right way to redirect pbuilder logs? 2>&1 still seems to miss one or two lines
[16:26] <ScottK-laptop> directhex: --logfile= or some such.  See man pbuilder
[16:26] <directhex> ah yes, guessed there'd be something like that
[16:29] <DktrKranz> sebner: I asked to join, but I'm not a member yet
[16:30] <sebner> DktrKranz: pfff, I don't see any problems
[16:31] <DktrKranz> sebner: you're young, you can't see problems. grow up a bit and problems will eat you
[16:32] <sebner> DktrKranz: I'll eat them :P
[16:34] <DktrKranz> they're bitter, not too good to eat. better leave them alone
[16:39] <breize> hey guys... im currently looking at the motu youtube videos, but i get an error at some point...
[16:40] <breize> when running "debuild -S -sa" i get: This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
[16:40] <breize> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;
[16:40] <breize> (expected ed_0.9.orig.tar.gz or ed-0.9.orig)
[16:40] <breize> but the file is in the partent directory
[16:40] <breize> any advise?
[16:43] <directhex> breize, ed_0.9.orig.tar.gz is in the parent?
[16:44] <breize> yes, in "../debian"
[16:45] <directhex> it needs to be in ..
[16:45] <breize> i meant .. ;)
[16:45] <breize> it's in the "ed-0.9" directory
[16:45] <directhex> wait, that's wrong too
[16:46] <directhex> your folder should contain ed-0.9/ and ed_0.9.orig.tar.gz
[16:46] <directhex> and probably ed_0.9-1.diff.gz and ed_0.9-1.dsc
[16:47] <breize> and in the same folder the "debian" folder?
[16:49] <directhex> breize, no, debian/ should be inside ed-0.9
[16:49] <directhex> /
[16:49] <breize> ok
[16:49] <directhex> that's one of the things reflected in the diff.gz
[16:49] <breize> ah ok, works now, thanks for your help
[16:50] <\sh> MOTU-RELEASE: do i need a UFE for adding libs to ia32-libs?
[16:50] <directhex> ScottK-laptop, remind me to continue testing the package when i next appear. time to drive home.
[16:51] <ScottK-laptop> \sh: Please do the bugfix only approach where you document what you are doing in a bug.
[16:52] <\sh> ScottK-laptop: bug #246911 and I add a diff of debian/rules and explain what I did?
[16:52]  * k0p is away: I'm busy right now
[16:53] <\sh> ScottK: most of it is already on my hd...so it's just a matter of uploading 400Megs of data ;)
[16:54] <ScottK-laptop> \sh: Go for it, just put the rules diff in the bug and some rationale for why each.
[16:54] <\sh> ScottK: good :)
[16:54] <ScottK-laptop> \sh: Are you going to freshen the existing packages too?
[16:55] <\sh> ScottK: well, it would be a good reason to do so
[16:55] <ScottK-laptop> Please do.
[16:55] <\sh> k...
[16:56] <\sh> I'll just write an mail to -motu and -devel to announce this work..so nobody would do it twice without knowing
[16:57] <\sh> sistpoty|work: apachelogger can now has his core-dev ,-)
[16:57] <sistpoty|work> \sh: yes, I'm impressed by the quick fix of apachelogger
[16:58] <sistpoty|work> apachelogger: earn bonus points by also updating the lsb-headers to add hal as dependency ;)
[16:58] <\sh> rotfl
[16:58] <sistpoty|work> <- needs to get home to try the fix *G*
[17:44] <RainCT> Is today's Intrepid working fine? (I'm thinking about downloading the daily image to see how cool Intrepid is and check if linux .27 sucks as much as .26 :P)
[17:49] <Iulian> Why do you say that .26 sucks?
[17:49]  * Iulian shrugs
[17:49] <james_w> directhex: MIR bug filed, I subscribed you, I hope you don't mind
[17:58] <jdong> Iulian: from what I heard they really screwed up the mac80211 stack in 2.6.26
[18:00] <sebner> RainCT: .27 is not bootable for me
[18:03]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cu later.
[18:05] <RainCT> Iulian: sound is send to pcspkr instead of to the speakers and the progess bar at boot is displayed 3 times in a weird way XD
[18:06] <jdong> RainCT: it's the new AMD triple-core bootup!
[18:06] <RainCT> lol
[18:09] <directhex> james_w, no, of course i don't mind, thank you for helping with this
[18:10] <james_w> directhex: thank you, it took me about two minutes to do that bit, you did the hard work.
[18:20] <RainCT> jpds: there's a bug in requestsync (unless you already fixed it since my last pull :P). if a package has diverged in Ubuntu it asks you twice to edit the report (first it says that you have to edit it, and after that it asks if you want to edit it as it always does)
[18:22] <directhex> ScottK, what have i missed on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monodoc/+bug/256853 ?
[18:30] <directhex> building, installation, use, all logged & correct.
[18:31] <directhex> one mighty fine bug report
[18:31] <ScottK> directhex: New revisions that fix bugs don't need an FFe.
[18:33] <directhex> it doesn't fix bugs that i know of. other than bundling documentation for an obsolete version of the software being mighty silly, and upstream not making promises that the mismatched version numbers won't be a problem at some point.
[18:34] <ScottK> It's just a new debian revision.  No FFe needed.
[18:35] <directhex> is there anything more i can do at this point then, or will it simply get the nod when someone in u-m-s gets to it?
[18:36] <ScottK> Nope.
[18:37] <directhex> my work here is done then. fingers crossed, intrepid should ship with a mono stack in pretty decent shape
[19:14] <sistpoty> hi folks
[19:15] <sistpoty> hm... can I find irc-ops somewhere... I'm having difficulty to connect to freenode and need some help
[19:15] <Nafallo> sistpoty: you ARE on freenode ;-)
[19:16] <sistpoty> Nafallo: well, I needed to tunnel here
[19:16] <sistpoty> which is imo suboptimal *g*
[19:16] <geser> #ubuntu-irc perhaps (I hope I remembered the channel correctly)
[19:17] <Nafallo> #freenode rather
[19:17] <Nafallo> ^-- sistpoty
[19:17] <sistpoty> ok, thanks Nafallo and geser
[19:19] <geser> sistpoty: see also http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#helpfromstaff
[19:20] <sistpoty> oh... nice... thanks geser
[19:29] <sistpoty> bbl
[19:30] <Iulian> RainCT: You should have found a workaround for the sound issue. Also saying that 2.6.26 sucks just because of your three-bars problem is a bad thing.
[19:30] <Iulian> jdong: I didn't have the chance to know more about wireless so I cannot say anything about it. I thought that it's working fine.
[19:31] <Iulian> jdong: .26 of course.
[19:32] <Iulian> jdong: Did you test out your wireless with the latest kernel?
[19:33] <Iulian> sistpoty: I thought bbl is an acronym for "be back later", not "be right back". :-)
[19:33] <sistpoty> Iulian: I was assuming the worst with my irc problems *g*
[19:34] <Iulian> Ohh, that explains it.
[19:46] <jdong> Iulian: planning to do that later today; I've got an ath9k card that should have brand-new kernel 2.6.27 support
[19:46] <jdong> so I'm excited.
[19:50] <tacone> Laney: ping
[19:50] <Laney> hi tacone
[19:51] <tacone> Laney: I am fixing the regression of memaker
[19:51] <tacone> would you test it ?
[19:51] <Laney> tacone: Sure, no problem
[19:51] <RainCT> Iulian: yes, my workaround is: sudo aptitude remove linux-image-2.6.26-5-generic  ;P
[19:53] <tacone> Laney: http://test.stefanoforenza.com/memaker_1.0.1-0ubuntu2_all.deb
[19:53] <Iulian> jdong: Cool, let me know if you're not running into trouble.
[19:53] <Iulian> RainCT: Yay!
[19:54] <Iulian> RainCT: That is definitely not a workaround.
[19:55] <Laney> tacone: Worked fine!
[19:55] <tacone> nice. it was my fault. my patch was not complete. I missed one file.
[19:55] <RainCT> Iulian: It isn't? How can you say that? *g*
[20:19] <tacone> would anyone sponsor a little debdiff on lp:#262750 ?
[20:20] <tacone> uff. bug 262750
[20:21] <emgent> tacone: we are in FF
[20:22] <tacone> so not even bugfixes ?
[20:22] <emgent> yeah
[20:22] <emgent> motu-release
[20:23] <sebner> emgent: \o/
[20:25] <emgent> heya sebner
[20:26] <emgent> tacone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze%20for%20bug%20fix%20only%20updates%20(process%20agreed%20by%20motu-release)
[20:27] <RainCT> emgent: but that's for new (bugfix only) upstream versions
[20:27] <tacone> emgent: that's not a new upstream release. is a bugfix on the packaging.
[20:27] <emgent> oh sorry
[20:28] <Laney> What's kubuntu's equivalent of update-manager -d?
[20:28] <RainCT> emgent: and anyway the only difference to before FF is that MOTUs have to file a bug for such uploads if there isn't one
[20:28] <tacone> Laney: sudo apt-get install update-manager; update-manager -d
[20:28] <tacone> (joking)
[20:28] <RainCT> xDD
[20:28] <directhex> Laney, aptitude install gnome-desktop
[20:28]  * Laney slaps you all
[20:28] <Iulian> Hah
[20:28] <directhex> ubuntu-desktop. you got the joke, damnit!
[20:29] <RainCT> tacone: you passed debdiff the arguments in the wrong order
[20:29] <tacone> RainCT: ok correcting
[20:29] <Laney> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
[20:31] <lukehasnoname> My laptop HD is at 47C
[20:31] <tacone> RainCT: check again
[20:31] <tacone> s/check/please check/
[20:32] <lukehasnoname> sorry wrong window
[20:34] <RainCT> tacone: I can look at it in ~1 hour if you want
[20:35] <tacone> RainCT: again ?
[20:35] <tacone> RainCT: sorry, cancel my last msg.
[20:35] <tacone> RainCT: yes, that would be ok.
[20:37] <Laney> tacone: The bug closing format is (LP: #xxxx)
[20:37] <Laney> And your changelog entry could do with being a bit more descriptive ;)
[20:38] <tacone> Laney: sure could be more descriptive.
[20:38] <tacone> Laney: I am not sure about the bug format not being parsed. guess it's ok like that.
[20:39] <Laney> I don't know to be honest
[20:39] <Laney> But it's sure to work the other way
[20:39] <tacone> Laney: checking it out  :)
[20:47] <tacone> Laney:  you seem to be correct. I'll fix that.
[20:47]  * Laney high fives tacone 
[20:47]  * Laney -> dinner
[20:48] <tacone> :)
[21:12] <sistpoty> ScottK: finally finished with writing the gems mail: http://paste.ubuntu.com/41674/
[21:12] <sistpoty> ScottK: it's a little bit biased towards my opinion, so please state what you don't think that motu-release agreed upon/found out
[21:13] <sistpoty> (oh, and a personal follow-up is contained in there as well, just ignore that *g*)
[21:18] <ScottK> sistpoty: Personally I'd make more of the mislabling of the snapshot as an RC.  I think it's deceitful.
[21:19] <ScottK> I'd also point out that the avenue of appeal is to the MOTU Council.
[21:19] <ScottK> Generally I think it's good.
[21:19]  * ScottK needs to run off, so do what you think is best.
[21:20] <sistpoty> ScottK: avenue of appeal? does that mean way for complaints? (-ENONATIVESPEAKER)
[21:20] <sistpoty> (or anyone else that can help me translate *g*)
[21:20] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:20] <sistpoty> ok, thanks ScottK
[21:21] <ScottK> If they are unwilling to accept the decision, that's who they should go to.
[21:40] <liw> if I want to upload two packages to REVU, and the second one depends on the first one, should I wait uploading the second until the first one has been processed and accepted into main?
[21:43] <RainCT> liw: that isn't required, but it would make it easier to review the second package
[21:45] <sistpoty> ScottK: still around? http://paste.ubuntu.com/41683/ (any other native speaker, please tell me if I got that "order of appeal" thingy right *g*)
[21:49] <RainCT> sistpoty: as nobody answers, it sounds strange to me, though I'm not a native speaker neither. googling it seems like "order" in this context means "request". "avenue" (="means of attainment"), which ScottK used, seems more likely to be right
[21:50] <directhex> hurrah. lpia added to architecture fields in mono in debian. one ubuntuism down.
[21:52] <Laney> sistpoty: How about "you are free to escalate this to motu-council"
[21:53] <sistpoty> RainCT: thanks... /me shouldn't use phrase he doesn't know
[21:53] <sistpoty> Laney: ok, thanks, will modify accordingly :)
[21:53] <Laney> I think there's an idiom for this, but I can't quite conjour it up
[21:54] <Laney> sistpoty: While you're here, do you think there is any chance of a ghc 6.8.3 in Intrepid?
[21:54] <RainCT> tacone: man.. nested diffs are confusing :)
[21:54] <RainCT> tacone: looks good
[21:55] <sistpoty> Laney: actually not with FF having started already... that might mean a complete haskell transition again, which I don't think should be done during FF
[21:56] <Laney> sistpoty: Yeah, apparently "most library APIs have not changed" but I guess that's still too much, eh?
[21:56] <Laney> It gives some nice speedups to compiled code though, shame :(
[21:57] <tacone> RainCT: nice :)
[21:57] <sistpoty> Laney: the problem is that a newer ghc release doesn't necessarily grant a stable ABI, so all libraries would need to be rebuilt
[21:57] <Laney> :(
[21:58] <sistpoty> Laney: in case you're motivated enough igloo asked for help maintaining the debian ghc package (which I tend not to diverge from too much)
[21:59] <tacone> RainCT: will you sponsor it then ?
[22:01] <directhex> just how valuable is symlinking to a common /usr/share/doc directory, if it were the only diff from debian?
[22:02] <sistpoty> directhex: depends on the size of that directory... (and if it's used by a cd-image usually out of disk space)
[22:04] <RainCT> tacone: Sure. I'm test building it right now. I also did another little change (improving the description, which was scaring me :P. as the package is maintained in Ubuntu we can do such stuff), but don't worry, I've left your name in the signature :)
[22:05] <tacone> RainCT: thank you. I am not good at rephrasing things.
[22:05] <directhex> sistpoty, if i can make other, bigger savings?
[22:05] <RainCT> wow you can do ugly things with memaker :P  (and it works fine with python2.4 after applying the patch)
[22:05] <sistpoty> directhex: sounds like you need an FFe then :P
[22:06] <directhex> sistpoty, intrepid+1
[22:06]  * Laney remembers to make a new horrible LP avatar with the new memaker
[22:07] <sistpoty> directhex: did you check yet, *why* this change was done in the first place=
[22:07] <Laney> tacone: glyphface is buggy :(
[22:07] <directhex> sistpoty, "* Symlink doc directories to avoid duplicate files."
[22:07] <tacone> Laney: what you mean ?
[22:07] <nxvl> \o/
[22:07] <RainCT> tacone: uploaded
[22:08] <Laney> tacone: It doesn't work - I can't change anything except the face shape. All of the other sets work though
[22:08] <tacone> RainCT: thanks :)
[22:08] <sistpoty> directhex: what would be the reason to drop this change? can we sync from then on?
[22:08] <directhex> sistpoty, that's my goal
[22:08] <tacone> Laney: that's an upstream bug.
[22:08] <Laney> tacone: I thought you were upstream :O
[22:08] <tacone> Laney: not. Jason Browser's the project leader.
[22:09] <sistpoty> directhex: just avoiding duplicate files doesn't sound like a good reason to me, so imho drop it
[22:09]  * RainCT confirms that
[22:09] <tacone> Laney: I did nothing for memaker, but a little refactoring of the source structure.
[22:09] <sistpoty> directhex: unless the reason was to gain cd-spac
[22:09] <Laney> tacone: OK!
[22:09] <sistpoty> +e
[22:09] <tacone> Laney: would you open a bug ?
[22:09] <Laney> tacone: Yes, let me check in #memaker first though
[22:09] <directhex> sistpoty, other plans at the debian level should mean major (i really mean major) savings
[22:10] <tacone> oddly enough, no exception is outputted to the command linke
[22:10] <sistpoty> directhex: who did the changes in the first place, maybe that might give a clue on the (often forgotten) why the change was done?
[22:10] <directhex> sistpoty, doko
[22:11] <sistpoty> directhex: and which package?
[22:11] <directhex> sistpoty, mono
[22:11] <sistpoty> directhex: oh... mono... so it's in ubuntu-desktop... and there's some space constraints
[22:11] <sistpoty> directhex: imho better to keep that change then
[22:12] <directhex> sistpoty, we're workig on some really major major space savings
[22:12] <sistpoty> directhex: but still, every bit counts for -desktop (sadly, that's a reason for abominations in recommends)
[22:13] <directhex> sistpoty, doko's change saved, on hardy, inside the squashfs, 756k. not sure how much that means post-squashing
[22:13] <sistpoty> directhex: finally, I guess slomo might be the one who could answer you question better than me, if he were around
[22:13] <directhex> presumably about 1/3 of that
[22:14] <sistpoty> directhex: let's assume it's 300k... even that is a reasonable amount for -desktop
[22:14] <sistpoty> + images
[22:14] <directhex> current plans with the debian-mono team should rip out several meg
[22:14] <sistpoty> directhex: but you'd gain several megs + 300k, right?
[22:14] <directhex> sistpoty, yes
[22:15] <sistpoty> directhex: that's even better then ;)
[22:17] <directhex> sistpoty, phase 1 of the project will save 10 meg in-squash (and about 40% of the space saved by those doc symlinks)
[22:18] <RainCT> tacone: did you know that you've also fixed bug 260888 and it's duplicate? :P
[22:18] <directhex> sistpoty, phase 2 will save a further 4 or so meg. that's the plan, anyway
[22:19] <sistpoty> directhex: sure, but let's add phase 3 (symlink) to save another 300k... isn't that even better?
[22:19] <tacone> RainCT:  let me check. btw good move to change description. I changed it some time ago, but never committed the diff to launchpad. the description was just horrible.
[22:19] <directhex> sistpoty, it violates debian policy without awkward changes to the build process
[22:19] <sistpoty> directhex: how so?
[22:20] <directhex> sistpoty, "/usr/share/doc/package may be a symbolic link to another directory in /usr/share/doc only if the two packages both come from the same source and the first package Depends on the second. These rules are important because copyrights must be extractable by mechanical means. "
[22:20] <tacone> RainCT: actually that bug was already fixed I believe.
[22:20] <directhex> sistpoty, that Depends: breaks some of the automated dependency building we use
[22:21] <sistpoty> directhex: ah, I think I start to understand
[22:21] <tacone> its duplicate was actually introducted by me, as I incorrectly ported the patch to the new upstream version
[22:21] <sistpoty> directhex: so the symlinked thingy is part of a package, which might not be in depends any longer, right?
[22:22] <directhex> sistpoty, right. short version is, i got my way with adding lpia to debian/control in debian, but i won't get it with doc dir symlilnking
[22:22] <sistpoty> directhex: ok, then just kick that diff, if general savings are better
[22:22] <directhex> sistpoty, i'm also poking upstream to update one of their lib dependencies to one in main (currently we use a horrid hack to move the recommends to suggests due to main/universe issues)
[22:23] <RainCT> tacone: It's usually a good idea to check all bug reports against a package when you are wokring on it (for packages with lots of reports that'd be just look at the titles, no need to read them all), as you may find some other change which you can get into the same upload or find old bugs which can be closed (I just got ride of 5 or 6 :P)
[22:25] <tacone> yes, I learned that lesson when you warned me about the duplicates being closed.
[22:25] <tacone> I incorrectly assumed the launchpad search for duplicates when filing a new bug was powerful enough.
[22:28] <directhex> sistpoty, this chart relates to a different mono app to those on the cd (f-spot and tomboy), but most of the deps are the same in the top 2 sections: http://paste.debian.net/15754/
[22:29] <directhex> sistpoty, package sizes are for debian, not ubuntu, not that it makes much difference. those prefixed with an "X" will be removed from the dep chains for mono apps post-lenny
[22:31] <lukehasnoname> Quick MOTU related question: When setting up my gpg key and other information, is it required to use my real full name, or would "Luke has no name" be acceptable? My last name is unique enough that I don't care for it to be all over the internet.
[22:31] <sistpoty> directhex: I'm not sure that I understand these numbers right now (getting sleepy a little bit)... however if there's no hard dependency, symlinking is the wrong thing, so get rid of it
[22:32] <sistpoty> lukehasnoname: it's good practice to use the real name... that's not necessarily a policy (for ubuntu) and other people might disagree. For debian, you should use the real name though.
[22:32] <directhex> sistpoty, since mono's in main, should i check with someone else first? i'm not 100% sure on protocol, nor who's able to pass judgement on what
[22:33] <sistpoty> directhex: not too sure, I always thought that slomo and you would be the mono guys ;)
[22:33] <sistpoty> directhex: of course, you'll need a FFe, since these changes seem to be quite big
[22:33] <directhex> sistpoty, they cannot go into intrepid. sorry. still planning stages
[22:34] <directhex> sistpoty, and losing the doc symlilnking makes no sense until the other savings kick in
[22:34] <sistpoty> directhex: them what's the problem?
[22:34] <directhex> sistpoty, i'm thinking of the future! i'm one of those big picture guys who drinks posh coffee
[22:35] <directhex> well. starbucks.
[22:35] <sistpoty> directhex: I guess the debian mono people should be able to tell you if your patches are future-proof, don't you think?
[22:39] <directhex> sistpoty, the debian mono people (well, meebey & me) are the ones planning the architectural shrinkage. i'm just looking to make "sync mono, don't merge" my personal goal for intrepid+1. down to 2 non-changelog differences right now, one of which is the symlinking. since it was someone outside the usual debian mono circles, i want to make sure i talk to the right people about dropping it, if indeed dropping it is an option
[22:41] <sistpoty> directhex: well, I can't say I know about mono, but what I stated so far is still true. you cannot symlink if there is no hard dependency (otherwise debian/copyright might get lost, which would be an immediate rejected)
[22:41] <sistpoty> s/rejected/reject reason/
[22:41] <lukehasnoname> sistpoty: Alright, well, I'm sticking with my IRC name, and see how long it takes to get lectured :) The internets are a dangerous place. Back to the peanut gallery for me.
[22:42] <directhex> sistpoty, i know people are busy thinking about intrepid right now (and i think mono in intrepid is almost in great shape, barring 2 packages with open syncmerge bugs). but i'm working with a debian team here. even intrepid+1 is wishful, you know what debian slippage is like ;)
[22:42] <directhex> lukehasnoname, it's down to how you understand the web of trust, IMHO
[22:42] <sistpoty> lukehasnoname: heh... btw. I find your nick quite funny, as I'm (for unknown reasons) often read "lukehasnoSONAME" *g*
[22:43] <directhex> lukehasnoname, i'm an opponent of ID-based verification before signing gpg keys, because i think it utterly misses how the web works
[22:43] <sistpoty> directhex: sure, and I fully believe thinking ahead makes a lot of sense... thanks for that!
[22:44] <directhex> lukehasnoname, directhex, some faceless sarcasm factory from irc, has packages in debbuntu. sistpoty here has spoken to directhex, he has no idea who jo shields is
[22:44] <lukehasnoname> sistpoty: o_O I'm trying to catch the joke but I fail. directhex, are you saying you are an opponent of people being required to give their true identity, or ANY identity?
[22:45] <directhex> sistpoty, i think the debian-java team have a *lot* of work ahead of them if they ever want to fit java apps onto the ubuntu cd though
[22:45] <directhex> lukehasnoname, i think online identity and offline identity are often not the same thing, and i oppose arbitrary linking of them
[22:45] <sistpoty> lukehasnoname: no, it's rather that SONAME is an essential piece when coming to library packaging... and my brain just plays tricks on me when reading your nick
[22:45] <directhex> lukehasnoname, especially in (all too common in FOSS cases) aspergers sufferers, the two people may have nothing in common
[22:46] <sistpoty> lukehasnoname: the s and n is just too close I guess *g*
[22:47] <lukehasnoname> directhex: then we are in agreement. The fact I use my first name as part of my online tag is enough for me. A reference to Final Fantasy 7 (Cait Sith Cat) was not 'professional' enough, so I changed. And I get it now sistpoty, and you're going to Hell directhex
[22:48] <sistpoty> heh
[22:52] <RainCT> sistpoty: btw, have you seen https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/revu/+spec/activity-scores?
[22:54] <sistpoty> RainCT: no, have just looked at it
[22:54] <sistpoty> RainCT: that's an interesting idea, which is I think *partly* covered by the current algorithm
[22:55] <sistpoty> RainCT: and *no*, I won't make that sql query even more complex *g*, but feel free to do so
[22:56] <sistpoty> (or maybe rather clean it up in the first place, or do subqueries in for each row)
[22:59] <RainCT> sistpoty: damn :P. well, do you have any comment on how to calculate the number?
[22:59] <RainCT> sistpoty: ah, and another question.. does psql support procedures? (I've heard about them today for the first time but perhaps they could be useful)
[23:02] <sistpoty> RainCT: 1) no, not really... would be best to ask on ubuntu-motu ml for a algorithm, I'm quite sure that persia might have a good idea ;)
[23:03] <sistpoty> RainCT: 2) yes, psql does support views, as well as stored procudures (iirc, there even exists a mechanism to write python stored procuderes, but I haven't tried that myself yet)
[23:04] <sistpoty> s/procuderes/something that is more legible *g*/
[23:05] <apachelogger> meh
[23:06]  * apachelogger should read IRC backlog before mails
[23:06] <RainCT> apachelogger: nice application :P
[23:06] <apachelogger> RainCT: thanks ;-)
[23:08] <sistpoty> oh apachelogger: since ScottK found problems with your patch, I think I'll need to review it tomorrow again (-ENOTTOOSOBERRIGHTNOW)... but still I think finding out what went wrong is a great techical achievement!
[23:09] <apachelogger> well, the problem was a stupid copy'n'paste
[23:10] <apachelogger> sistpoty: meanwhile I uploaded the lsb additions, so I guess it's even again ;-)
[23:10] <sistpoty> heh :)
[23:10]  * apachelogger moves out to bring a drunken friend home
[23:10] <apachelogger> cya
[23:16] <sistpoty> ScottK: I'll upload the reversion of libgems-ruby in a few minutes, if you don't mind, ok?
[23:21] <RainCT> sistpoty: I'm checking the postgresql docs. Using Python might be the best (so that we don't have to use another language which we don't know), but I'm not sure if we should use procedures or not, as they are more difficult to change than having the code in .py files.
[23:21] <sistpoty> RainCT: I'm not too sure either... if it makes the code more clean, I'
[23:21] <sistpoty> +m all for it
[23:22] <sistpoty> RainCT: others than that, the current index page query (even though it's a single query) consumes quite some time in postgres
[23:22] <sistpoty> RainCT: so I'm not convinced if just splitting it to smaller queries/or having more queries will be bad for the general revu speed
[23:24] <sistpoty> RainCT: if you want to be 100% sure about speed issues though, I think there is a mechanism to show the actual query details of psql (maybe prefix a query with analyze... ) but I think that might be overkill to look for ;)
[23:28] <RainCT> sistpoty: may that be "explain"?
[23:29] <RainCT> ("explain ..query.." says something like "cost=0.00..1.04". "analyze" can only be used against tables)
[23:29] <sistpoty> RainCT: that may well be (maybe it's analyze in oracle then... was some time ago since I had knowledge about sql-servers)
[23:31] <RainCT> sistpoty: uhm.. nice :P  http://paste.ubuntu.com/41702/plain/
[23:31] <sistpoty> yep, that was it :)
[23:31] <RainCT> sistpoty: well, I'll let you work on libgems-ruby now :)   good night
[23:32] <RainCT> thanks
[23:32] <sistpoty> RainCT: heh
[23:32] <sistpoty> RainCT: looks like the union thingy wasn't a good idea after all *g*
[23:33] <sistpoty> (at least from what I make from it right now)
[23:34] <sistpoty> gn8 RainCT
[23:38] <tacone> how to search launchpad for bugs related to a given package ?
[23:40] <geser> navigate to the source package and view the bugs tab
[23:44] <tacone> thanks geser