[00:00] And neither of the commonly used mpeg4 profiles, I guess. [00:01] You know the problem with CDBS-simple-patchsys? The patches don't often have any justification headers. === superm1 is now known as superm1|away [00:04] the problem with cdbs-simple-patchsys is that a debdiff only ever shows an added patch, you don't have to add it to a sequence file, so you can't tell from a diff review alone whether it's done right [00:04] I'll admit, there are other defects. That's just the one that annoyed me now :) [00:05] My gnome-power-manager has a nice set of lintian warnings. [00:06] Hm. It occurs to me that is only unambiguous when spoken. "My my, gnome-..." :) [00:09] slangasek, how's that different from quilt? [00:09] NCommander: ... because there *is* a sequence file, and you can tell at a glance whether the patch has been added there? [00:09] oh [00:09] d'oh [00:09] * NCommander runs [00:10] and also see from the diff whether it's an addition to the file or a new file, so if it's the first patch you know to look closer to make sure debian/rules invokes quilt [00:12] ah [00:40] hey LaserJock [00:42] hi [00:44] LaserJock, did you get my comments on the backport [00:44] NCommander: yep [00:46] Patches are welcome [00:46] :-) [00:46] patches? [00:51] To fix git-buildpackage on hardy so it installs [00:51] well, I can just upload it if I want ;-) [00:56] HMM [00:56] anyone else notice that Revu seems to break for a package everytime you upload a new revision [00:56] but seems to sort it self out a day or so later. [00:57] http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=google-gadgets fails and presents the user with a traceback >_< [00:59] I think that's it more likely that you keep finding bugs in it, and people keep fixing them. [01:28] its nice to know my code changes to revu broke things miserably [01:28] wgrant, hola [01:33] hola persia [01:46] NCommander: Hi. Remarkably bad timing you have there. [01:46] wgrant, why? [01:46] NCommander: Catching me just a few minutes after I left. [01:47] wgrant, oh :-P === superm1|away is now known as superm1 [01:55] wgrant, well, I always have bad timing [01:55] I'm told my mom went into labor at a very inconvenient time [02:02] Wow, -synaptics is rather busted. [02:10] wgrant, ? === Pici` is now known as Pici [05:19] I don't want to let my membership of ~motu expire, do I? [05:22] RAOF: you don't want a life, do you? [05:23] I mean, it's not one of the teams that are deprecated. [05:23] RAOF: it's the real team (the new one) isn't it? [05:24] Maybe? :) [05:24] There's also ~ubuntu-dev [05:25] Eh. I'll hit "renew" anyway. [05:25] * ajmitch is expired out of ~ubuntu-dev as well [05:25] ubuntu-dev is the old one I thought. [05:27] i thought ubuntu-dev was the parent one [05:27] for ~motu and ~core-dev [05:27] really? [05:27] that could be. [05:27] doesn't make sense for it to expire then [05:28] RAOF, i think it would be funny though if it did expire and to renew it post expiration you had to perform a challenge [05:28] like fix 35 bugs in 24 hours in a maximum of 3 packages or something [05:28] make things interesting [05:28] lol [05:29] * ajmitch goes to file 40 bugs [05:29] "HAHA you're 1 minute 35s too late... Now package eclipse 3.4" [05:29] BA BAW! [05:34] RAOF: i think you're only allowed to renew the ones you're suspposed to renew [05:34] Hobbsee: As in: you'll only be _asked_ about renewing the ones you're supposed to renew? [05:35] * ScottK looks for some crackish stuff to upload, because it appears to be the in thing to do. [05:35] RAOF: no, you'll get asked about all of them. [05:35] RAOF: you'll have to contact a team admin for those you aren't to review, usually. [05:35] ScottK: automatix3? [05:35] ScottK: I suggest xserver-xgl. [05:35] I said crackish, not insane. [05:35] Crap. Xserver-xgl. [05:35] How about noveau? [05:36] how about a windows binary inside a source package again? [05:36] That's some high-grade crack that people enjoy! [05:36] superm1: If it's licensed correctly and depends on WINE, I can see where that might not be totally insane. [05:36] * RAOF wonders how many people would care if xserver-xgl were to accidentally 'disappear' [05:37] Hey, popcon might answer that. [05:37] RAOF: oh trust me those would be the worst complaints [05:37] * ajmitch would care, deeply [05:37] RAOF: people with the worst graphics cards in the world who also want to do 3D compositing effects? [05:37] *shudder* [05:37] They need to be using <= Geforce2 before xgl is actually needed, right? [05:40] Popcon thinks ~30K people have xserver-xgl installed, making it 399th on the 'by vote' list. [05:40] hysterical raisins? [05:40] With the small problem that it's crap, barely maintained upstream, and will take a lot of work to get it to build again. [05:40] RAOF, is there a date that is assigned to? [05:41] maybe 30k had it assigned at it's peak [05:41] but now only 10 do [05:41] RAOF: just because it's removed from the archive, doesn't mean that people can't keep it installed if they really need it [05:41] and if you aren't rebuilding it again anytime soon, that's no better than the current [05:42] removing it just prevents more people from making a mistake [05:42] True. Ah... by vote it's only 2.5K used recently. [05:43] there are probably still people using beryl [05:43] Right, that's enough for me. Let's go file a removal request. [05:44] beryl does show up on popcon, how unfortunate [05:44] Really? Where? [05:44] by_inst [05:44] :( [06:24] heya gang [06:25] ALO [06:25] - caps, sorry [06:42] good morning [06:46] I'm trying to find out what is the best practice to create a package modifying package. I want to create a package for my local network that will modify settings files of other packages. But something that will withstand upgrading the original package. [07:00] is there a motu-release person around? [07:02] nope... [07:02] hey Koon! [07:02] hello Daniel ! [07:02] How are you today ? [07:03] very good - how 'bout you? [07:03] somebody should add a patch to wtf so it knows what TGIF means :) [07:04] good - good, but it's a good thing it's Friday, you're right [07:04] :-) [07:05] before our holidays we were in constant hectic and people visiting us on the weekend, after our holidays the same [07:05] so it's the first time in like 8 weeks or something that I'm going to buy records on the weekend again [07:05] yoohoo :) [07:05] * dholbach missed doing that [07:06] dholbach: the visiting-on-weekends season isn't over here, we still have visitors this weekend. But next week should be alright :) [07:06] LaserJock: If you are still around, I am around. [07:10] :-) [07:10] TheMuso: I've got a multiverse upstream ISV that wants to get a new version of their package into Intrepid (well and Hardy but I'm not going there yet) [07:11] TheMuso: would a FFe be a good idea or do you guys really care? [07:11] LaserJock: an FFE would be a good idea, but at this point it will likely have no problem getting through. [07:12] TheMuso: ok, I just wondered since it's all binary. There's not much of a diff to look at [07:13] LaserJock: Right. [07:13] LaserJock: Do it early and we likely won't even look, just wave it through. [07:14] TheMuso: k, they sent me an email with packages today. I'll likely get to it before the weekend is done [07:14] righto [08:30] Good morning [08:31] Morning. [08:31] * NCommander is bored [08:31] jpds, know any good bugs that need work, or general release tasks? [08:32] NCommander: bug #261930 [08:32] Launchpad bug 261930 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync gets confused by epoch numbers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261930 [08:32] Hey Jonathan. [08:33] What's the work on the fix so far? [08:33] NCommander: None, bzr only marked the branch cos I put the wrong number after commit --fixes. [08:33] whoops ;-) === kaminix_ is now known as kaminix [08:42] good morning [08:44] Morning geser [08:45] morning everyone [08:47] Hey [10:08] Ok [10:21] hi folks [10:22] hi sistpoty|work [10:22] hi dholbach [10:26] hello guys sistpoty|work and dholbach [10:27] hi huats [10:27] hi huats [10:27] o/ === persia_ is now known as persia [10:42] dholbach: thanks for the upload :) [10:45] didrocks: de rien [10:45] :) [10:49] soren: new storm! :) === spas_awej is now known as spass === spass is now known as spass_awej === DktrKranz is now known as DktrKranz2 [11:24] Hi all, i want to package this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/262230 but there is only a ppa where I can download the sources. Can I use the ppa? [11:24] Launchpad bug 262230 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Ubuntu LiveUSB" [Undecided,New] === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [11:42] Process question: does anyone mind if somebody from ubuntu-release approves something that would normally be motu-release's job? The case at hand is bug 258989 that I think looks fine and seems to be fairly low-risk [11:42] Launchpad bug 258989 in ubuntu "Please sync python-protobuf 2.0.0~b-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258989 [11:42] Put another way, should ubuntu-release be a member of motu-release? [11:43] Also, I note that motu-release has no administrators. Presumably adding and removing members still needs to be done by Riddell, even though he's deactivated? [11:45] cjwatson: I think somebody of motu-council asked Riddell to pass over admin-ship, but I'm not sure who that was [11:45] I seem to remember that too, I expect I forgot about it [11:45] DktrKranz2 and sistpoty|work might be able to answer the other question [11:46] (not least because I've never had anything to do with motu-release) [11:46] Riddell: aside from owning the team you mean? :) [11:47] yeah, apart from that [11:47] cjwatson: being deactivated has the advantage of not getting their bug mail :) [11:47] who's a good person to change the owner to? [11:48] hm... imo it makes sense that ubuntu-release can approve any motu-release requests... [11:49] we'll have a motu-release meeting in 12 minutes btw, I'll add that to the agenda (which only exists in my brain so far *g*)= [11:49] if I add ubuntu-release to the motu-release team will that mean extra bug mail for ubuntu-release? [11:50] Riddell: no idea actually... [11:50] dholbach: re storm: Well, yes, but FF? [11:50] however I guess such a policy wouldn't necessarily need to be reflected by team membership ;) [11:51] soren: man... it has debugging now and is supposed to be faster in some parts! [11:51] dholbach: Alright, I'll file an FFe. On Monday. I've got the day off. [11:52] soren: take it easy [11:52] soren: if you need someone to test it, let me know - harvest uses storm [11:52] Riddell: maybe you could make motu-council the team owner? or would that cause bug mails to MC (dholbach?)? [11:52] sistpoty|work: not if MC is the owner, but deactivated in the team AFAIK [11:53] ah :) [11:53] hey norsetto [11:53] * dholbach hugs norsetto [11:53] * norsetto hugs dholback back [11:55] "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page." oh well, guess I can't change the owner [11:55] ScottK, sistpoty|work, DktrKranz, norsetto, will we meet in #ubuntu-meeting? [11:55] TheMuso: yes [11:55] Riddell: extra bug mail> I think anyone in ubuntu-release should be able to cope [11:56] (since they probably get more bug mail than they can read anyway so who cares ...) [12:00] TheMuso, can you do me a favor? I need a few builds retried but I need a core-dev to reset the build-record [12:00] (after the meeting) [12:03] NCommander: Simple bug fixes don't need motu-release approval. [12:03] Yeah, got your email [12:03] * NCommander hides in his corner [12:03] moin [12:03] morning ember [12:03] er emgent [12:04] damn autocomplete [12:04] :) [12:06] Riddell: accepted the invitation, now how do I make it owner or change the parcipation status? :) [12:07] dholbach: I just made motu-council an administrator [12:07] but I can't change the owner [12:08] hum [12:08] Riddell: let's talk to the guys in #launchpad [12:10] NCommander: re your alsaplayer debdiff: how do I apply it because the usual patch -p1 or -p0 don't work (and the dpatch doesn't look like a usual dpatch) [12:10] geser, just run the patch target, it runs fine [12:10] I used dpatch-edit-patch on intrepid which seemingly changes things [12:10] Riddell: I believe owner can only be changed by either a) the owner, or b) LP guys (or c] the previous owner leaves the team?) [12:11] I am the owner (for some unkent reason) [12:11] Alright, then a must not be true :) [12:12] NCommander: http://paste.ubuntu.com/41509/ [12:12] geser, dpatches aren't valid "patchs" [12:12] YOu have to use dpatch to apply it [12:13] Oh wait [12:13] The debdiff came out screwy [12:13] isn't the reverse the case? [12:13] WTF [12:13] I think I reversed the patch [12:14] AFAIK dpatches are patches [12:14] jms@osc-franzibald:/tmp/mono-1.9.1+dfsg$ patch -p1 < debian/patches/remove_arg_max_check_r101444.dpatch [12:14] patching file mono/io-layer/wapi_glob.c [12:15] geser, http://paste.ubuntu.com/41511/ [12:16] Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+reassign ? [12:16] oh, never mind, just caught up on #launchpad === Kopfi|offline is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger [12:17] NCommander: hmm, still the same [12:18] cjwatson: so you're sure about adding ubuntu-release as a member? [12:18] The patch looks valid O_o; [12:18] dholbach: it's fine from our point of view [12:18] Please someone else test it so I'm sure I'm not loosing my mind [12:19] cjwatson: ok.. I'll wait for sistpoty|work's go-ahead after the meeting [12:20] dholbach, cjwatson: was already discussed, no objections [12:20] alrighty [12:20] cool, thanks [12:21] cjwatson: invitation went out [12:29] cjwatson: let me know when you accepted it [12:41] dholbach: it doesn't seem to be reaching me so far ... [12:41] hum [12:41] https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+members shows ubuntu-release as pending [12:41] my procmail.log has no record of it [12:42] norsetto: you are here also !!! [12:42] cjwatson: Does https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+invitations reveal anything? [12:42] I'm not, really :-) [12:42] ;) [12:43] dholbach: ah, yes, I'll accept it that way; thanks [12:44] de rien [12:45] * dholbach rushes out for lunch [12:48] huats: any chance you can help suman? [12:49] norsetto: I don't see what you are refereing too... [12:49] but I'd be happy to help [12:50] huats: mentoring reception, find him a mentor, etc. [12:50] norsetto: sure [12:50] but I haven't see the message... [12:50] let me check again... [12:51] sorry, I mispelled the name, is sourav [12:51] huats: sorry, I mispelled the name, is sourav [12:52] I haven't received the email [12:52] norsetto: I have seen it in the queue waiting for approval [12:52] and nothing then [12:52] I guessed he cancelled it... [12:53] huats: I approved it [12:53] ok [12:53] but I haven't received it [12:53] ok [12:53] I'll check the archives [12:53] and I'll take car of him [12:58] nxvl: hello and congrats !!!! [13:00] huats: hello and thank you [13:00] good morning everyone! [13:00] :) [13:02] heya [13:02] Hello all. [13:04] I'm setting up an internal apt repo for my company. This way we can have better control of what software can be installed, and what updates are installed and when. Can we replace the 'components' settings from main non-free contrib to our own custom components? such as beta, update, stable? [13:04] yes [13:05] I want something along the lines of |Ubuntu-> Updates, Beta, Stable-> Accounting, Sales, Office, [13:06] how would I do this? I'm using reprepro. [13:09] What do I set the components to? [13:10] i haven't used that software before. but generally, you can use anything you like as long as it's properly represented in all the files [13:10] How do I setup multiple nested groups? [13:11] Like there will be Ubuntu->Beta->Accounting ; and there will be Ubuntu->Stable->Accounting [13:11] don't. 1 layer of nesting only. just use dashes [13:11] dashes? [13:11] oh, like [13:11] beta-accounting [13:11] ok [13:12] your dist/release defines a list of components, not a tree [13:12] ok [13:12] so dist/release should just list every possible component you might want in that dist. juggle dists and components to suit [13:12] oh, ok [13:12] So could I set the dist to Updates, Beta and Stable [13:13] and the components to accounting, sales, office, etc? [13:13] yeah [13:14] ok [13:14] how would I integrate updates from the official repo into my repo? [13:16] Since the official updates and packages don't follow my 'custom' layout? [13:17] quentusrex_lapto: FWIW, if this were Ubuntu, we'd model beta, update, stable as pockets (i.e. hardy-beta, hardy-update, hardy-stable) rather than as components [13:18] the general idea is that a package is typically only in one component at a time (per release, anyway), but that different versions of a package may be in different pockets [13:20] by pockets you mean dists? [13:21] sort of [13:22] hardy-beta different from dapper-beta and so on, just in case [13:22] aah [13:23] but if I an only allowing a single release then it's fine. [13:23] aye [13:23] I'm sticking with the LTS 8.04.1 [13:24] good choice [13:24] err, so, a pocket is like "security updates to 8.04" versus "8.04" [13:24] I assume (hope!) you're incorporating security updates rather than just using 8.04.1 as-is [13:24] How would I integrate official updates into my system? [13:24] our pockets for 8.04 are hardy (original release), hardy-security, hardy-updates, hardy-proposed, hardy-backports [13:24] just make sure security.ubuntu.com is also in sources.list [13:25] i.e. all the usual ubuntu sources as well as your private one [13:25] but I don't want all the usual ubuntu sources [13:25] * cjwatson reads "This way we can have better control of what software can be installed, and what updates are installed and when" and suspects that is not desirable [13:25] right [13:26] I only want authorized software to be able to be installed. [13:26] like no games... [13:26] you'll have to develop scripts to download updates (maybe using debmirror?) and move them into your archive when checked === DktrKranz2 is now known as DktrKranz [13:26] right [13:26] I want to download all the updates into the folder updates [13:27] i've done that before, for a remastered dapper CD [13:27] then as I make sure they work, I'll move them into the folders so that others can update [13:27] you would have to effectively reupload those updates to reprepro (or possibly convince it that they've been "uploaded" by some back door) [13:27] I don't know reprepro as such [13:27] * directhex is old-skool; uses apt-ftparchive [13:27] but that's the general model we use for syncing updates from Debian [13:27] hmm [13:28] I don't mind custom building the scripts myself. [13:29] we do it by fetching each source package (you'd probably want to fetch binaries too) and regenerating the .changes file [13:29] hmm [13:29] this approach means you can use your archive management toolset to rebuild Packages files and such rather than having to do it yourself [13:30] (as simply putting the files in the right directories achieves roughly zip) [13:30] rebuilding Packages is easy enough with some gentle apt-ftparchive-fu [13:31] or reprepo maybe. like i said, never used it [13:31] hum [13:32] so, you don't want your users to install games? in order to install software, they need to be root. which means they can edit sources.list or bring some debs on a thumb drive [13:32] well, i WAS wondering that [13:32] you even need rootiness to click apply in update-manager [13:34] would there be an easy way to be able to automatically add the ubuntu package updates? if I haven't custom build the package myself? [13:34] I'll give them sudo ability [13:34] which is fine with me. [13:35] then they can install whatever they like, with a well-placed sudo dpkg -i [13:35] yes they can... [13:35] but not without going out of their way to do it [13:37] if they go out of their way to do it, then if they do something that get's them in trouble then.... [13:39] so, === asac_ is now known as asac [13:42] back to my latest question. How do I let most packages from the official repo into my system, and be able to apply the updates easily. But the packages I customized I have to update myself. [13:45] alright, I think I'll move to a different question [13:45] How do I update packages? I mean if I have a large 300mb package and I only need to make a single change. Can I apply only the update? [13:46] if they want to install the whole package then they download the whole thing, but the update only needs the small update rather than the whole thing. [13:46] ? [13:47] we don't support delta updates, no [13:48] generally we try not to have 300mb packages for all kinds of reasons, not that that always works :) [13:48] hmm.... [13:48] ok [13:49] so to update something like that I'd have to generate another large file? [13:49] that's correct [13:50] (in general. in specific cases sometimes it's possible to drop another file in place using a new package in order to effect a change) [13:53] hmm [14:16] zul: libxen3 has a quite funny Replaces: => libxen3.2 (<< libxen3.2-3.2.0-0ubuntu3) [14:16] is there a reason or simply a mistake? [14:21] gaspa: could be a bug [14:23] gaspa: that's a mistake, since a newer version of the same package will always replace the older version [14:24] sistpoty|work: Not the same package. [14:24] ScottK: hm? [14:24] libxen3 vs libxen3.2 [14:24] libxen3.2 and libxen3 aren't the same package [14:24] ScottK: ;) [14:24] oh, indeed... I've misread that :) [14:25] Easy one to miss. [14:25] sistpoty|work: anyway, i was only curious for the strange version number. [14:26] unrelated, it still seems to be a problem, if a library conflicts/replaces against an older version (with a different name), as then these are not coinstallable... xen might be special there though [14:30] sometimes mistakes happen and coinstallability needs to be sacrificed. I haven't checked this particular case though [14:31] I note that libxen3 ships some unversioned file names [14:38] http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto.en.html#debian-repository-example [14:38] How can I setup more than one level tree? [14:38] that is the 'standard' setup for debian. it has more than 3 levels... [14:43] <\sh> sistpoty|work: peng [14:43] * sistpoty|work falls heavily wounded to the ground [14:43] \sh: argggggg [14:43] *g* [14:44] <\sh> sistpoty|work: bug #256261 the bug is won't fix, because kdm is started in S99 :) [14:44] Launchpad bug 256261 in kdebase-workspace "keyboard won't work loginmanager starts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256261 [14:44] <\sh> can i has core dev now? [14:44] quentusrex_lapto, it's not more than three levels - it's 2 deep, with required cruft [14:44] <\sh> sistpoty|work: I think this guy upgraded from hardy to intrepid without apt-get install kubuntu-desktop again, because if he had only kde4 from the ppas there is no direct upgrade path [14:44] \sh: actually it's confirmed, and my system says it's started in s19 or so :P [14:45] quentusrex_lapto, the only levels in it are the entries in "dists" (unstable, testing, stable) and the components in those dists (main, contrib, non-free) [14:45] <\sh> sistpoty|work: which version of kdm package do you have? [14:45] \sh: 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu8 [14:45] <\sh> give me a sec [14:46] \sh: the postinst script is quite weird to read, and imo fails to correctly update the rc.d... I already looked ;) [14:46] ok [14:46] so there are still only 2 levels? dist and components? [14:46] <\sh> sistpoty|work: strange... [14:47] \sh: maybe dependencies get created by lsb headers nowadays? (in case these are present) [14:47] \sh: then it would be a really simple fix :) [14:47] <\sh> sistpoty|work: fun part even on hardy + ppa packages it's S99...could be that it picks it up during upgrade [14:47] <\sh> if vmware would work on intrepid I would have tested it now with a clean install [14:48] \sh: whatever it is, it's a pain to always need to restart kdm after booting *g* [14:48] <\sh> sistpoty|work: really, I never had that problem... [14:49] why always /me? *g* [14:49] <\sh> you can't has pony ,,) [14:49] sistpoty|work: Because you should be helping develop Kubuntu, not just using it. [14:50] heh [14:50] <\sh> genau [15:28] could someone please review a mythtv theme on REVU? it's supposed to go in for intrepid :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-metallurgy-wide [15:44] laga: it's quite dark, but the icons are nice :P [15:46] sistpoty|work: there are darker ones. check out project grayhem :) [15:46] heh [15:47] superm1: to answer your mail, there will be minutes... just kick NCommander, as he has the duty to write them ;) [16:01] Hi, I have a quick question. in 8.10, some boost -dev packages are version 1.35, while normal packages are 1.34 [16:02] oh oops, ignore that [16:03] Huh [16:05] huhu sistpoty|work :D [16:05] hi sebner [16:05] dholbach: sry for twiki, I had a really bad day on wednesday :\ [16:06] np [16:06] dholbach: though I'm wondering that some of my syncs didn't make it but had the tag [16:07] which tag? [16:09] dholbach: the pre-ff tag === spass_awej is now known as spass [16:09] sebner: right... seems we didn't have enough people reviewing stuff [16:10] dholbach: ah ok. but seems funny since persia was pushing and pushing :) [16:11] dholbach: btw, can you give me an advice for bug #261991 ? [16:11] Launchpad bug 261991 in tuxtype "Merge tuxtype 1.5.17.dfsg1-3 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261991 [16:13] \o/ ScottK-laptop [16:13] sebner: what kind of advice do you need? [16:13] ? [16:13] geser: can you tell me why I would need a FF? no new upstream ... or is main different than universe? [16:14] sebner: no you don't need one - no new upstream version [16:14] dholbach: sponsors shouldn't confuse contributors xD [16:14] sebner: don't forget to comment on the current ubuntu delta [16:15] so do i or don't i need to get a FFe for a package which was put in the sponsorship queue before FF? i've heard conflicting reports [16:15]