[00:44] <elky_work> freaking fedora...
[00:46] <mneptok> "ask about our broken Perl"
[00:47] <Flannel> they broke perl?
[00:56] <elky_work> mneptok: there are updates waiting, including a kernel update. i dont want to have to reboot right now. however the kernel has fallen out of sync with the vmware modules so i need to recompile. this involves new kernel-devel package. this wants to bring in stuff for 3 different kernels
[01:14] <wgrant> elky_work: You know what it's trying to tell you...
[01:21] <elky_work> wgrant: use ubuntu
[01:21] <elky_work> i knkow
[01:21] <elky_work> but this is strictly a rpm workplace :(
[01:26] <pleia2> elky_work: if you want to move to the other side of the planet we're hiring ;)
[01:28] <elky_work> pleia2: heh. i've done enough moving the past year. i think i'll stick with this side of the planet for a bit longer
[01:29] <pleia2> fair enough
[01:30] <elky_work> i'm actually thinking of buying somewhere in about a year's time. rent costs about the same as a mortgage, so i might as well invest money in my future, rather than someone else's
[01:45] <pleia2> nice :)
[01:59] <mneptok> pleia2: you're in Philthadelphia, ja?
[01:59] <pleia2> mneptok: yep
[01:59] <mneptok> i sometimes almost miss it. :)
[01:59] <mneptok> sometimes. almost.
[02:00]  * pleia2 likes it here
[02:00] <mneptok> what i really miss is working at 4th and South, and lunch at Jim's
[02:00] <pleia2> :)
[02:00] <pleia2> I'm in the suburbs, but am downtown pretty often of late
[02:01] <mneptok> west? NE?
[02:01] <pleia2> NW, collegeville area
[02:01] <mneptok> k, i lived up that way in Bensalem. was born in New Hope.
[02:01] <mneptok> (well, born in Princeton at the hospital, but Mom and Dad lived ...)
[02:02] <pleia2> I lived in Bensalem for a summer in 1999, when I came back in 2001 I ended up in Montgomeryville
[02:02] <pleia2> grew up in Maine
[02:02] <mneptok> i was in Bensalem c1983 :P
[02:02] <pleia2> hehe
[02:02] <mneptok> right on the river. i guess looking at Camden every day is what burned me out ;)
[02:02]  * pleia2 laughs
[02:03] <pleia2> ubuntu NJ just had a lan party in Cherry Hill, I got slightly lost in Camden, I've had better afternoons
[02:03] <mneptok> was in Ardmore c1992. that's when i worked at TLA Video in CC
[02:04] <pleia2> nice area
[02:04] <mneptok> "lost in Camden" pretty much equates to "doomed, though you may be unaware of it" in my head
[02:04]  * pleia2 lived to tell the tale, all is well
[02:05] <mneptok> someday Philly will detonate the Ben Franklin Bridge and be done with it :)
[02:05] <pleia2> lol
[02:05] <mneptok> "so long, and thanks for all the ... uhhh ... inflated crime statistics?"
[02:06] <nalioth> mneptok: not the science lab, there?
[02:07] <mneptok> nalioth: in Camden?
[02:07] <mneptok> nalioth: if you mean "mth lab," SAY "meth lab" >:)
[02:07]  * pleia2 chuckles
[02:09] <nalioth> 1219971707 20:01 <+mneptok> (well, born in Princeton at the hospital, but Mom and Dad lived ...)          <<< not the Princeton University science lab?
[02:19] <mneptok> nalioth: they were asked to leave when my mucus nozzles became active.
[02:22] <Pici> Someday I'll actually do something with the NJ loco, instead of just reading about it on the mailing list
[02:23] <pleia2> Pici: are you local?
[02:23] <pleia2> Pici: do I have to kidnap you? :)
[02:23] <Pici> pleia2: I live right outside of New Brunswick, NJ
[02:23] <pleia2> !
[02:24] <Pici> ! indeed.
[02:24] <Flannel> New Brunswick?  Drinking and Whoring?
[02:24] <elky_work> drinking and what?
[02:24] <Flannel> elky_work: Its from 1776, you can't knock Ben Franklin.
[02:25] <elky_work> Flannel: it might have been said in 1776 by ben franklin, but it's 2008 and not appropriate for this channel.
[02:26] <Flannel> The musical is shown in high school, I'd argue its decent enough for this channel.  It wasn't like I was referring to a particular person.  But whatever.
[02:27] <elky_work> Flannel: so because mississippi burning is shown in highschools here, i should start recreating parts of that?
[02:30]  * mneptok gets aroused at the thought of elky in a full-head, latex Willem Defoe mask
[02:31] <pleia2> speaking of franklin, check it: phillylinux.org
[02:31] <pleia2> we have a new logo :)
[02:31] <mneptok> "Hey Microsoft. Go fly a kite!"
[02:31] <pleia2> hehe
[02:31] <pleia2> he might need a kite
[02:32] <mneptok> and/or a full-head, latex Willem Defoe mask ...
[02:33] <pleia2> and mucus nozzles
[02:33] <elky_work> mneptok: i didnt know you were hot for willem defoe
[02:35] <elky_work> but i'm glad someone understands the relevence of my analogy
[02:47] <mneptok> elky_work: i'll be your Ernest Borgnine if you'll be my Phyllis Diller ...
[02:54] <elky_work> haha
[03:18] <wickedpuppy> hi , how do i give access to a friend ? i am getting the invalid template error
[03:19] <Flannel> wickedpuppy: #ubuntu is the support channel, your best bet is to ask there.
[03:20] <wickedpuppy> thanks Flannel
[03:43] <Flannel> ASrock: How can we help you?
[03:48] <ASrock> i tried joining #ubuntu and i was told to come here to ask for help
[03:52] <elky_work> Flannel: um, wickedpuppy was asking how to give channel ops access to someone in #ubuntu-sg
[03:55] <jrib> was wondering how long that would take.  Anyway, goodnight all
[03:56] <jrib> ASrock: told by whom?
[03:57] <ASrock> "/topic"
[03:58] <jrib> ASrock: did you read it and follow the instructions?
[03:58] <ASrock> the instructions said to come here
[03:58] <jrib> ASrock: please read the topic one more time
[04:00] <ASrock> well i have to go now, i will look into it later
[04:00] <jrib> ok
[04:00] <ASrock> thanks neway though
[04:00] <jrib> night
[04:47] <flaccid> Riddell gave me operator status in #kubuntu a day or two ago and now it seems to have been removed. Can someone please have a look for me?
[04:50] <nalioth> swilkoskicksass: can we help you?
[04:50] <Hobbsee> nalioth: (he's been trolling in #Kubuntu under a different nick, and has already been silenced)
[04:50] <nalioth> Hobbsee: i know who he is  :)
[04:50] <Hobbsee> nalioth: oh good :)
[04:50] <flaccid> Hobbsee: can you help with my above enquiry please
[04:51] <nalioth> swilkoskicksass: is there something we can help you with?
[04:53] <mneptok> flaccid: the only people that should be on the #kubuntu op list are members of the Ubuntu IRC ops team.
[04:54] <mneptok> flaccid: Riddell may have given a +o through a mode change, but that does not make you a permanent op
[04:54] <nalioth> mneptok: they do things a bit different in #kubuntu
[04:54] <Hobbsee> nalioth: that being said, it's in it's correct status now.
[04:54] <flaccid> mneptok: i was able to op myself the other day in the channel, and no i cannot
[04:54] <flaccid> Hobbsee: what status is that?
[04:54] <mneptok> flaccid: you are not on the op list for that channel
[04:55] <flaccid> i was the other day
[04:55] <flaccid> who changed it?
[04:55] <mneptok> probably a member of the ops team.
[04:55] <nalioth> mneptok: i suspect flaccid is asking the wrong people here
[04:55] <flaccid>  so what is the status with me and #kubuntu atm?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> well, by looking at the access list, i see you are nto on it.
[04:56] <nalioth> flaccid: i'd ask whoever added you to the ACL
[04:56] <mneptok> flaccid: you are not on the channel's op list
[04:56] <flaccid> Riddell added me
[04:56] <nalioth> well, there you go
[04:56] <mneptok> flaccid: Riddell does not run the IRC ops team.
[04:57] <nalioth> mneptok: but he runs #kubuntu
[04:57] <mneptok> flaccid: and there are policies about how ops are approved and added. i'll remind Riddell of this.
[04:57] <flaccid> its a bit rude to be added finally, then have this revoked and nobody knows why
[04:57] <Hobbsee> nalioth: he is one who does, last i checked, too.
[04:57] <mneptok> nalioth: no, the Ubuntu IRC namespace is run by the CC and the IRC Council. not individuals.
[04:57] <nalioth> mneptok: riddells name is on the GCF, with the blessing of the CC
[04:58] <flaccid> so you are telling me the leader of Kubuntu did the wrong thing?
[04:58] <mneptok> nalioth: and if some channels aren;t abiding by this, then they need to come into compliance. :)
[04:58] <elky_work> flaccid: i'd say that riddell knows why. you should talk to him
[04:58] <flaccid> he has not been online recently
[04:58] <elky_work> flaccid: then you email him
[04:58] <flaccid> this is pathetic
[04:58]  * Hobbsee notes the various objections by various existing kubuntu operators probably had something to do with the decision, too.
[04:58] <mneptok> flaccid: if you care, an age-old IRC axiom is "the people most anxious for ops are usually the people least likely suited to have them." *shrug*
[04:59] <flaccid> mneptok: i wasnt anxious. i didn't ask. i was offered!
[04:59] <flaccid> the logs clearly show this
[04:59] <flaccid> Hobbsee: what decision and who by?
[04:59] <mneptok> flaccid: were you offered ops by the IRC Council?
[04:59] <elky_work> flaccid: and offers are able to be recinded, which i imagine is what has happened here
[04:59] <Hobbsee> mneptok: clearly, he got them temporarily.  After further discussion, between various current kubuntu operators, they were then removed.
[05:00] <mneptok> flaccid: i think you have the answer, then.
[05:00] <flaccid> Hobbsee: where is evidence of this and why was i not notified?
[05:00] <Hobbsee> that being said #kubuntu does need more ops, and the current ops team is shortlisting a list of people.
[05:01] <flaccid> this is not the point at all
[05:01] <mneptok> flaccid: what is the point you are trying to make, besides "i want my ops back!"? sorry, it's late, and i'm a bit dim.
[05:01] <flaccid> that it was unprofessional
[05:02] <mneptok> good thing we're volunteers and not being paid, then :)
[05:02] <flaccid> and that i deserve better than this
[05:02] <elky_work> i certainly wouldn't give you ops, given your past behaviour towards both users and ops.
[05:02] <flaccid> does jr not get paid by canonical ?
[05:02] <elky_work> flaccid: not everything canonical employees do within the community is paid
[05:02] <mneptok> but in seriousness, Riddell should not be giving people ops in a channel without informing the ops team. i think your complaint is with him, not us.
[05:02] <Hobbsee> elky_work: i believe that, and the fact that it hasn't stopped, is exactly why those powers were revoked.
[05:03] <mneptok> flaccid: *i* get paid by Canonical. but not to IRC.
[05:03] <elky_work> mneptok certainly isnt paid to talk here
[05:03] <flaccid> i guess most people are not willing to admit their mistakes
[05:03] <Hobbsee> mneptok: kubuntu is somewhat different - but they are expected to check with other ops that it's a good idea, etc.
[05:03] <elky_work> flaccid: the mistake was admitted by the removal of your ops. qed.
[05:03] <elky_work> oh darn
[05:04] <Hobbsee> elky_work++
[05:04] <mneptok> Hobbsee: the "is a bit different than..." needs to stop.
[05:04] <mneptok> look what happens.
[05:04] <elky_work> yeah
[05:04] <elky_work> i agree
[05:04] <mneptok> ennyhoo, i'm off for home
[05:04] <elky_work> we do kind of expect better from xubuntu
[05:04]  * mneptok | Metro > ~/
[05:05] <elky_work> mneptok: how long is your commute?
[05:08] <Hobbsee> mneptok: yeah, well.
[05:09] <Hobbsee> mneptok: ultimately, someone needs to step up and take more control of #kubuntu
[05:09] <Hobbsee> and liase with the ops team here
[05:09] <Hobbsee> hopefully someone like jussi01 on the council will do that
[05:09] <Hobbsee> anyway, i have other bits to do, so...
[05:10] <elky_work> ski trip? such a hard life
[05:43] <mneptok> wait, in Oz?
[05:43] <mneptok> waterskiing?
[05:43] <Flannel> mneptok: grass skiing
[06:13] <stdin> Myrtti: how come you automatically blame me when the bot breaks, I was in bed :)
[06:16] <bazhang> tester5, you understand why you were muted in #ubuntu?
[06:16] <tester5> hi, bazhang is being a petty tyrant and banning people who say one single line that is not on topic
[06:16] <tester5> after doing many lines that were helpful to others
[06:16] <tester5> i move for him to be stripped of the privileges he abuses
[06:16] <bazhang> tester5, you were offtopic and warned about it; then ignored and escalated it.
[06:17] <tester5> bazhang, there were like 3 or 4 of us saying silly things, I said one line and you picked on me and warned me
[06:17] <tester5> and again, it was one line after many where i was being helpful
[06:17] <bazhang> tester5, the others warned immediately stopped.
[06:18] <tester5> you discourage people who are helpful with your conduct
[06:18] <bazhang> !coc | tester5
[06:18] <tester5> bazhang, I already know you're petty, so I came here to bring this to others, not to you
[06:19] <tester5> and nice spamming of the code of conduct, you only sent it to me 20 seconds ago
[06:19] <elky_work> tester5: you've come in here for revenge, and that rarely ends well. this channel isnt about getting back at people.
[06:20] <nalioth> jpds: ubottu appears to have returned, can we get rid of ubot5, please?
[06:20] <elky_work> nalioth: just mute it here for now
[06:20] <nalioth> then it can't spout inputs from channels it's in
[06:21] <tester5> elky_work, but there shouldn't be anything for me to get revenge for. If you think I want revenge, then you aknowledge bazhang is a problem
[06:21] <stdin> nalioth: he said to /remove it when ubottu came back
[06:21] <elky_work> tester5: not at all. it means you have a victim complex going
[06:21] <tester5> elky_work, I think he overreacted and was unfair.
[06:21] <nalioth> stdin: ah
[06:23] <stdin> tester5: you were offtopic, disrespectful and abusing the bot, so you got a mute so we could talk about it. there's no need to come in here demanding someone be "stripped of the privileges"
[06:23] <elky_work> tester5: i'm yet to meet someone on the recieving end of op action from an op anywhere who thinks the action has actually been fair. if you were offtopic, you got what came to you.
[06:24] <tester5> stdin, i "was abusing the bot"? you mean, i made one single bot command, right? the tense you use suggests iteration...
[06:25] <stdin> tester5: was the factoid call for anything other than to provoke/annoy bazhang ?
[06:25] <elky_work> tester5: bot abuse can be merely using the bot to mock someone. if you got offtopic called and you tried to make fool of someone
[06:26] <tester5> elky_work, but I had been helping people for some time, and I think after helping people for an hour I should get one single line's worth of offtopic... obviously you admins have to stick together I see
[06:26] <stdin> just because you help people for a certain amount of time does not give you the right to disregard the channel rules/guidelines
[06:27] <tester5> I guess what I'm saying is he has some kind of zero-tolerance zeal to exercise his banning. I'm not saying that strictly I didn't post an offtopic sentence.
[06:28] <stdin> it was not a ban, but a mute
[06:28] <bazhang> you were muted only tester5
[06:28] <tester5> * ChanServ gives channel operator status to bazhang
[06:28] <tester5> * bazhang sets ban on %*!*@76-10-171-171.dsl.teksavvy.com
[06:28] <tester5> * ChanServ removes channel operator status from bazhang
[06:28] <stdin> yes, a mute
[06:29] <Jordan_U> ubottu and ubot5 are both active in #ubuntu at once
[06:29] <stdin> see the '%' there, that makes it a mute on freenode
[06:29] <tester5> meh whatever, replace the word ban with mute in my complaint
[06:29] <tester5> same diff
[06:30] <stdin> a mute is used to get your attention so the problem can be resolved without a ban
[06:30] <bazhang> tester5 (n=pete@76-10-171-171.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #ubuntu
[06:30] <bazhang> just now
[06:30] <tester5> oh now! wow!
[06:30] <tester5> is that forbidden after all?
[06:31] <stdin> he's just showing you that it's not a ban, because you can still join
[06:31] <tester5> yeah, obviously I figured that out when I did it
[06:32] <tester5> I see admin solidarity trumps actual moderate moderation
[06:33] <nalioth> tester5: the !love was uncalled for
[06:34] <stdin> if you would have just come in here and talked in a non-aggressive manner, then the mute would have probably been removed by now
[06:35] <tester5> stdin, I know that full well. I want to prevent unfair mutes in the first place, for all helpers in the channel, not just get unmuted for myself now
[06:36] <bazhang> tester5, yourself being the arbiter of what is fair and unfair?
[06:36] <stdin> in what way do you think it's unfair exactly?
[06:39] <tester5> stdin, I just told you how it's unfair. It was a very small percentage of my messages, the VAST majority of which were helping people. It was harmless, and it was a slightly silly single line in response to someone else's offtopic post. Granted it was off topic, in the above circumstances it shouldb't merit a mute or even a warning unless it seems as if I would continue the behavior. After all, the purpose of a mute or warning is to sto
[06:39] <tester5> p the behavior, and since I was showing so little up to that point, I should not be warned after a single line, and embarassed in the channel
[06:41] <bazhang> tester5, the issue was a user was being mocked; ckyle was asked to stop and did so. you were asked to remain on topic and failed to do so, going in the opposite direction with a mocking comment via the bot.
[06:42] <mneptok> tester5: "i help a lot of people" is not an free pas to break channel rules. just because i work hard all week doesn't mean i get to break the rules and leave 6 hours early on friday. and people that *really* want to help abide by the rules, not mock the ops that remind them to abide by the rules.
[06:42] <stdin> so we should only enforce the rules when it seems people will keep offending?
[06:43] <tester5> stdin, of course. The point of enforcement here is to keep the channel on topic, right? Muting someone only helps towards that goal if the muting prevents further rule breakages
[06:44] <stdin> if your problem is being embarrassed in the channel, then why would you try to do the same to bazhang ?
[06:44] <tester5> stdin, because he embarassed me, so i did to him, exactly.
[06:44] <mneptok> tester5: coming in here and demanding retribution is somewhat off-course from the CoC
[06:45] <mneptok> tester5: and there you go. retribution is a viable (and used) part of your defensive repetoire. i think the mute was warranted.
[06:45] <stdin> he embarrassed you by asking you stay on topic?
[06:45] <tester5> stdin, being "warned" by an admin is always embarassing, of course you must know that
[06:46] <mneptok> so then don't do anything that warrants a warning
[06:46] <tester5> mneptok, I argue that I didnt.
[06:46] <tester5> mneptok, no offense, but maybe you should learn to read before using irc.
[06:46] <stdin> so, we can't warn people to abide by the rules? so we should just kick/ban immediately?
[06:46] <mneptok> tester5: you saw someone get told not to use silly "mv blah /dev/foo" commands. and then *immediately repeated the behavior that got someone else a warning*
[06:47] <stdin> you'd rather we just went around removing anyone for any infraction instantly?
[06:47] <tester5> mneptok, I'm pretty sure he didn't get a warning, but if he did, I didn't see it
[06:47] <mneptok> 01:00 < ckyle> mv Dabbu /dev/null
[06:48] <mneptok> :00 < ckyle> mv Dabbu /dev/null
[06:48] <mneptok> 01:00 < ckyle> mv Dabbu /dev/null
[06:48] <mneptok> gah
[06:48] <mneptok> 01:00 < bazhang> ckyle, that is not helpful
[06:48] <mneptok> there it is
[06:48] <bazhang> at which he stopped right away.
[06:48] <mneptok> he was warned. he said "ok."
[06:49] <mneptok> then you immediately repeated that behavior. you also got a warning. then you used the bot.
[06:49] <jpds> nalioth: Done.
[06:49] <mneptok> trust me, my reading skills are fine.
[06:49] <mneptok> i'll give you a moment.
[06:49] <tester5> stdin, wow, I'm saying warn before kick/ban, yes... but not to be so quick to get warning people in the first place
[06:50] <stdin> so we should only warn people after repeatedly doing something wrong?
[06:50] <tester5> stdin, I'm not saying use different policies, I'm saying don't be so uptight
[06:51] <stdin> that just sends out the message, "you can get away with it, as long and you don't do it twice in one go"
[06:52] <stdin> the point of the matter is, you were in the wrong and, after a warning, continued to ignore the rules and so were muted
[06:52] <tester5> stdin, you should be concerned with making the channel the best it can be... it doesn't matter if somebody "gets away with" being silly once or twice while helping someone else. It's only when it is offending other users or making it difficult for others to get help that you should step in and do anything at all.
[06:54] <mneptok> uh ... offending other users?
[06:54] <mneptok> 01:43 < tester5> mneptok, no offense, but maybe you should learn to read before using irc.
[06:54] <tester5> Your overenforcement of the rules is not helping the channel have a good atmosphere, and that is really the whole reason the rules exist as guidelines
[06:54] <stdin> allowing users to break the rules will make the channel "the best it can be"?
[06:55] <stdin> it's a technical support channel, that's the atmosphere it should have
[06:55] <stdin> we have #ubuntu-offtopic for general chatter, and the rules are enforced appropriately
[06:55] <mneptok> !language
[06:55] <mneptok> !o4o
[06:55] <tester5> stdin, the rules exist for a reason. In law, the judges interpret WHY the rules are there, what their intent is... not just applying random rules. You are supposed to think like a judge as an admin.
[06:56] <tester5> mneptok, yeah, that was somewhat rude of me. But I was pretty frustrated. I just explained it about 8 times. Sorry for that "learn to read comment"
[06:57] <bazhang> tester5, and your !love was out of line as well.
[06:57] <mneptok> tester5: please don't make a habit of apologizing, hmmm? ;)
[06:58] <tester5> mneptok, I apologize for the rudeness, but I don't think my frustration was wrong, and I do think bazhang was overzealous in enforement
[06:58] <stdin> tester5: all the operators in #ubuntu are volunteers not judges, we take the responsibility of keeping the channel running because we want to, not because we get paid to
[06:58] <tester5> stdin, are you saying, I should not expect the quality of thought of a paid judge?
[06:59] <stdin> that wasn't exactly my point, but as a side-point, yes
[06:59] <stdin> of coerce you shouldn't
[06:59] <stdin> *course
[06:59] <bazhang> tester5, had you just said okay to my !ot, then none of this would have come about.
[07:00] <mneptok> tester5: wanna know what i think? i think you should understand mutes/bans usually last a day or two, unless the person is incorrigible here or elsewhere. with that in mind, you should stand up, walk 20 paces in any direction, and say "it's just IRC." i doubt we'll see you for at least 72 hours as the "WTF" moment fades, by which time the ban is gone.
[07:00] <stdin> we are not paid judges with years of legal training, so yes, we are not expected to act like legal judges
[07:01] <tester5> stdin, let me put it this way then. Jaywalking is technically illegal. If you guys were police officers, everyone who jaywalks would be thrown into prison for 24 hours. It's called moderation. think about it.
[07:02] <tester5> or would you revoke the license of everyone who goes 1 mph over the limit? no, they shoudn't even get a warning
[07:02] <mneptok> ok, i'm a dot. couch time with the ps3.
[07:02] <mneptok> "it's just irc"
[07:03] <stdin> following your example there, you were jaywalking, got a warning, then flipped off the police officer
[07:03] <tester5> mneptok, but "it's just irc" goes both ways... for the chatters, AND for the admins
[07:03] <nalioth> i think we're done here.  tester5, most mutes and bans don't last more than 24h
[07:04] <elky_work> tester5: the more you argue, the deeper you dig yourself
[07:04] <tester5> stdin, if that's the comparison, then bazhang is the police officer who hides on a deserted road waiting to pounce on any unsuspecting jaywalker... still a pretty pathetic police officer
[07:05]  * stdin is done with this
[07:05] <bazhang> tester5, come back in 24hours or whenever you have cooled off.
 its not criminal if there is a way to get around it in -ot
[07:09] <bazhang> he had the o4o nickname yesterday
[07:12] <nalioth> tester5: have a look at the /topic here, and !CoC and !guidelines please
[07:13] <tester5> nalioth, I know the rules, but thanks. I was talking about overzealous enforcement, not the rules themselves, which make a fair amount of sense.
[07:18] <bazhang> wow
[07:26] <elky_work> bazhang: do be more careful in future please
[07:26] <bazhang> elky_work, careful of what?
[07:27] <elky_work> bazhang: timing, making sure they've actually dug the hole
[07:27] <bazhang> a user was being mocked and the one being offtopic was asked to stop; this other fellow was equally warned then sent the !love command, at which point he was muted.
[07:28] <bazhang> elky_work, I agree; this situation was a bit out of the ordinary though.
[07:28] <bazhang> hard to accept others being mocked in channel.
[07:29] <elky_work> preemption is a luxury that seems to only cause us pain. yes, we're expected to do it, but do it very very carefully
[07:29] <bazhang> elky_work, you are very correct of course.
[07:30] <bazhang> hard to see that this fellow would escalate to the extremes that he did.
[07:30] <bazhang> he once proposed that there be a five-minute rule
[07:30] <elky_work> bazhang: it's even harder to explain troll-dar to someone who lacks it
[07:31] <bazhang> that operators should accept whatever happened within that five minutes and only then take action.
[07:31] <bazhang> clearly not workable in such a busy channel imo.
[07:32] <elky_work> definately not. but as i said, explain that to someone without troll-dar
[07:33] <bazhang> oh I see what you are saying.
[07:33] <bazhang> thanks.
[07:33] <elky_work> ;)
[08:12] <Myrtti> stdin because I know jussi01 too well and know he couldnt have broken it ;-)
[08:13] <stdin> btw, the council could have reset the bot
[08:13] <stdin> I believe jussi01 told them about the magic they can do a while ago
[08:29] <jussi01> !test
[08:30] <jussi01> morning all
[08:31] <jpds> Morning.
[08:33] <jussi01> jpds: ubot5is gone from all the other chans?
[08:33] <jpds> jussi01: Yead.
[08:33] <jussi01> :)
[08:38] <Malwir> just now:
 hi
 hi leute
[08:38] <Malwir> * gnubie has quit ("bye")
 !hi | Richi_
 Richi_: Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu!
[08:38] <Malwir> richi and pajamian are clearly off topic, ban them
[08:38] <jussi01> right...
[08:43] <jpds> < Malwir> lakikikialiao, he is wrong, you should use virtualbox
[08:43] <jpds> ...
[08:43] <bazhang> heh
[08:56] <Jordan_U> Is malwir tester5 ?
[08:56] <bazhang> seems like it
[08:56] <stdin> I would almost guarantee it
[08:56] <bazhang> he just made theaxiom quit with his !ot
[08:57] <Myrtti> DEAR GOD I HATE MY LAPTOP
[08:57] <bazhang> oh noez
[08:57] <bazhang> Myrtti, why?
[08:58] <Myrtti> I installed intrepid kernel update last night
[08:58] <Myrtti> booted this morning to explain to kindofabuzz why I kicked him
[08:58] <bazhang> wow that is brave
[08:59] <bazhang> updating that is, not kicking kindofabuzz
[08:59] <Myrtti> the damn thing wont even get to mounting /
[08:59] <Myrtti> then I get the old kernel
[08:59] <Myrtti> wireless doesn't wokr
[08:59] <Myrtti> I'm online, cause I just recompiled some kernel modules
[08:59] <Jordan_U> Myrtti: What about this new "last good boot" feature?
[09:00] <Myrtti> didn't try
[09:00] <stdin> don't you have a hardy kernel laying around?
[09:00] <Myrtti> it wouldn't have worked anyway
[09:00] <Myrtti> stdin: no?
[09:00] <Myrtti> I don't remember ever _upgrading_ my ubuntu
[09:01] <Myrtti> fresh installs, always.
[09:01] <stdin> when I installed pre-release hardy I kept a feisty kernel in /boot, just in case
[09:01] <stdin> erm, gutsy, not feisty
[09:02] <stdin> though I probably have a feisty one somewhere too (/me needs to clean /boot)
[09:02] <Myrtti> stdin: you honestly think I'm smart enough to know how to do that? I tried. Didn't know how to do it.
[09:02] <Myrtti> note: I was smart enough to *try*
[09:03] <stdin> afaik, kernels are never auto-removed, so it should be there
[09:03] <Myrtti> stdin: which part of "11:01 -'@: fresh installs, always." escaped you?
[09:03] <Myrtti> :-P
[09:04] <stdin> the part where it's early and I forget to read words on the shiny screen :p
[09:04] <bazhang> haha
[09:10] <bazhang> malwir is definitely tester5
[09:11] <stdin> he's digging
[09:12]  * bazhang lets the line reel out
[09:13] <Flannel> I don't think malwir is tester5
[09:13] <stdin> yes, I started it... after he started it :p
[09:14] <Flannel> tester5 is from Canada, malwir is from California
[09:14]  * stdin arrests him for jaywalking
[09:14] <bazhang> he seems almost incontrovertibly to be
 zOMG IM NOT ON TOPIC! I fear the ban police and bazhang coming hot on my tracks!!!
[09:14] <bazhang> exhibit A
[09:15] <stdin> you're supposed to be a judge, not a lawyer, remember? :p
[09:15] <bazhang> hehe
[09:15] <bazhang> not guilty then :)
[09:16]  * stdin goes on ebay to buy a gavel
[09:17]  * jussi01 hands stdin an e-gavel
[09:18] <stdin> !hammertime-#ubuntu-offtopic
[09:18] <bazhang> wait...who predicted it would be an easy day?
[09:18] <jussi01> hehe
[09:24] <Myrtti> nothing works
[09:24] <Myrtti> terminator breaks
[09:24] <Myrtti> my wifi breaks
[09:24] <Myrtti> my head breaks
[09:24] <Myrtti> my tap on touchpad is click breaks
[09:25] <Myrtti> my epiphany breaks
[09:25] <jpds> Long live devel releases.
[09:26] <Myrtti> oh, and my body doesn't work either.
[09:26] <Myrtti> damned piriformis
[09:28] <Myrtti> jpds: but I wanted to help
[09:28] <Myrtti> ;__;
[09:29] <jpds> Myrtti: File bugs?
[09:31] <Myrtti> jpds: I do, remember
[09:32] <Myrtti> I feel like gnawing my ankle like a small trapped animal
[09:32] <jpds> Oh, yeah.
[09:32] <Myrtti> and there epiphany crashed again
[09:32] <Myrtti> so the problem is to do with something about flash.
[09:33] <Myrtti> doesn't matter if it's swfdec, or flashplugin-nonfree
[09:33] <Myrtti> doesn't matter if it's firefox
[09:33] <Myrtti> it just crashes
[09:33] <Myrtti> and I want to cry.
[09:33] <Myrtti> thought - I don't
[09:38] <bazhang> Malwir> bazhang, and have you ever tried "sudo sudo nautilus"? It is even more powerful
[09:43] <jussi01> [11:41:31] <Malwir> god bazhang keeps trying to make me go offtopic in the regular ubuntu channel because he wants to ban me
[09:44] <bazhang> jussi01, hehe
[09:44] <bazhang> if he wants to vent in there that is okay by me
[09:45] <stdin> has it been 5 mins yet? you can ban after 5 mins apparently
[09:45] <bazhang> but the ot in #ubuntu is not okay.
[09:45] <bazhang> stdin, haha
[09:48] <Gary> I miss the days I used to try to mention all the offtopic subjects in one sentence
[09:49] <jussi01> I miss the days when Gary was Gazzak and very crazy (not to mention verbal)
[09:49]  * Myrtti huggles Gary 
[09:49] <Gary> I'm still crazy
[09:49] <GazzaK> woot
[09:49] <jussi01> \o/
[09:49]  * Myrtti pinches GazzaK 
[09:49] <Myrtti> *squeak*
[09:50]  * GazzaK Mooo's
[09:50] <jussi01> baaaa
[09:50] <jussi01> snuffle snuffle snuffle
[09:50] <GazzaK> verbal?  as in swearing, or as in talking too much?
[09:50] <jussi01> the latter
[09:51] <GazzaK> yeah, thats staffdom and too much work @ work for ya
[09:51] <jussi01> oh, them good old #ubuntuforums days....
[09:51] <GazzaK> lol, yeah
[09:51]  * Myrtti gets jussi01 and GazzaK a cup of milk of magnesia an a ticket to the memory lane tour
[09:52] <jussi01> hehe
[09:52] <bazhang> hahaha
[09:52] <GazzaK> so tempting
[09:53] <Myrtti> #ubuntu-spam?
[09:53] <Myrtti> hmmm
[09:54] <bazhang> hahaha
[10:18] <bazhang> malwir really wants to push this to the limits :)
[10:21] <GazzaK> push him back?
[10:22] <bazhang> his !ot finger will tire before I do :)
[10:22] <bazhang> he was in here earlier as tester5
[10:37] <bazhang> my favorite is when Myrtti uses the +m on -ot and talks about kittens and the like :)
[10:38] <Myrtti> ♥
[10:38] <Myrtti> it always works
[10:38] <bazhang> tis so funny
[10:38] <Myrtti> though, I use it only when there are too many people to be kicked
[10:38] <bazhang> haha
[10:38] <Myrtti> and the conversation has gone on in the wrong direction too long
[10:39] <bazhang> that *never* happens in there.
[10:40] <Myrtti> lol
[11:33] <Myrtti> now wait a minute
[11:35] <PriceChild> @btlogin
[11:35] <Myrtti> what's bigfuzzyjesus doing in -read-topic if he's not a victim?
[11:35] <PriceChild> remove him if so
[11:35]  * Myrtti is boggled
[11:52] <Myrtti> it's so nice and neat that everything in the world is in order again and GazzaK is GazzaK.
[11:58] <Tm_T> Myrtti: even l?l ;)
[11:59] <GazzaK> Myrtti: lol
[12:01] <Myrtti> Tm_T: yeah, even him
[12:27] <bazhang> bdunlap is suggesting deleting home partitions to malwir (aka tester5)
[12:41] <jrib> +ubottu?
[12:42] <Tm_T> ubottu: hi
[12:42] <Tm_T> <3
[12:42] <jrib> what did ubottu just respond to in #ubuntu?
[12:42] <Pici> jrib: spike1
[12:42] <jrib> +n'
[12:42] <jrib> oh
[12:42] <jrib> oops :)
[12:42] <Pici> I thought it was that at first too
[12:43] <Pici> er, although that wouldnt make any sense
[12:43]  * Pici gets more caffeine 
[15:19]  * Pici sighs
[16:19]  * jrib sighs
[16:21] <jrib> in pm with user who would rather get banned instead of disabling public away messages
[16:21] <nalioth> c'est la vie
[16:25]  * jussi01 huggles jrib
[16:28] <nalioth> what is zope ?
[16:30] <Pici> I think its a 'web framework'
[16:30] <nalioth> mmmkay.
[16:31] <nalioth> i am reading zope.com (whatever) and am still pretty clueless
[16:58] <Myrtti> if I remember correctly, it's a piece of utter junk developed in python
[16:58] <Pici> And what ubuntu.com uses, I think.
[16:58] <nalioth> bada bing
[17:01] <nalioth> Myrtti: junk or not, what does it do?
[17:04] <Myrtti> "Zope is an open source web application server primarily written in the Python programming language. It features a transactional object database which can store not only content and custom data, but also dynamic HTML templates, scripts, a search engine, and relational database (RDBMS) connections and code."
[17:07] <nalioth> Myrtti: yeah, i read the website ( still don't know what it does )
[17:08]  * Myrtti donates her headache to nalioth so he would care about such minor things
[20:05] <jussi01> crap, got to fix my aliases here
[20:05] <Myrtti> oh my dear god
[20:06] <GazzaK> "i'm a real girl, honest, not a 40 year old truck driver"
[20:12] <ompaul> GazzaK, you are neither unless ... ohh forget it :)
[20:33] <LjL> look who's switched back to her, sorry his, nickname of old
[20:35] <ompaul> hehe
[20:35] <ompaul> both of ye
[20:35] <LjL> yeah i sort of realized after saying it
[20:37]  * Myrtti huggles LjL 
[20:37] <Myrtti> I missed you ♥
[20:37] <LjL> i'm just a tired wolf
[20:37] <Myrtti> awwwww
[20:38] <Myrtti> I've always wanted something warm and snuggly to keep my toes warm :-}
[20:38] <Myrtti> polar bear would be the best.
[20:40] <LjL> perhaps next summer
[20:43]  * Myrtti gives LjL some reindeer jerky
[20:43] <mneptok> save the bones!
[20:43] <ompaul> Myrtti, that would be too high in protein for his part of the world
[20:44] <ompaul> mneptok, for?
[20:44] <ompaul> mneptok soup with carrots?
[20:44] <mneptok> pukka knife handles?
[20:44] <ompaul> ahhhhhaaaahhaaahaaaaa
[20:44] <LjL> anything that has protein is too high in protein for me
[20:46]  * Myrtti gives LjL some strawberries
[20:47] <Myrtti> poor wolfie
[20:47] <LjL> strawsberry's good
[21:21] <GazzaK> LjL: did you just like call me a her?
[21:21] <LjL> GazzaK: i corrected myself
[21:22] <GazzaK> there is a backspace key
[21:22] <GazzaK> :'(
[21:22]  * Mez puts his hand against GazzaK's forehead
[21:22] <Mez> You found your K!
[21:23] <LjL> sorry, i don't do it again
[21:23] <LjL> (poor GazzaK, she's so sensitive)
[21:23] <GazzaK> biatch :-D
[21:23] <Mez> Mrs. Kearley/
[21:24] <Mez> s_/_?_
[21:24] <Mez> aw :(
[21:24] <Mez> I scared her off :D
[21:24]  * Myrtti declares normality in the IRC Republic of Ubuntu
[21:24] <Myrtti> ^
[21:24] <LjL> normality? that would be an interesting experiment
[21:24] <Myrtti> LjL: you iz here, GazzaK iz here...
[21:24] <Myrtti> cuddlywuddlies ♥
[21:25] <GazzaK> yay
[21:26] <LjL> you know what's funny, i had to look up "sensitive". because i was confusing it with "sensible".
[21:26] <LjL> uhm wait it's not really funny
[21:31]  * Mez grouphugs LjL on his own
[21:31] <Myrtti> GROUPHUG!
[21:31]  * Myrtti runs
[21:31] <Myrtti> EEEEYYYEEEEEE
[21:31] <Myrtti> HUUUUGGG!
[21:31] <LjL> [22:31:36] <FloodBot1> charsets tried to join #ubuntu from a web gateway, but their host is banned
[21:32]  * Myrtti hugs both Mez and LjL 
[21:32] <Myrtti> LjL: perhaps they should be banforwarded here?
[21:32] <Mez> interesting.
[21:32] <Myrtti> he was banned for a reason
[21:32]  * Mez gets squished into an LjL and Myrtti sandwhich
[21:32] <LjL> Myrtti: i have no idea, for a start i'd need to know why they were banned and who they are
[21:32] <Myrtti> @btlogin
[21:32] <LjL> i was just warning they were trying to sneak in
[21:33] <Myrtti> oh - right.
[21:33] <Myrtti> DAMN
[21:33] <Myrtti> no, wait
[21:33] <Myrtti> !ping
[21:33] <Myrtti> @login
[21:33] <Myrtti> er.
[21:33] <Myrtti> it's not working?
[21:35] <Mez> btlogin after login
[21:35] <Mez> @btlogin
[21:35] <Mez> no response
[21:35] <Mez> @login
[21:35] <Mez> @btlogin
[21:35] <Mez> response :D
[21:35] <Myrtti> wth.
[21:35] <Myrtti> @btlogin
[21:36] <GazzaK> @login
[21:36] <GazzaK> yay
[21:36] <Mez> LjL, when it has that message ( tried to join #ubuntu from a web gateway, but their host is banned ) it might be worth adding a message saying what hostmask is banned? (so we can use that to check, rather than have to try and match it)
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:51 <charsets> UBUNTU
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:53 <charsets> UBUNTU
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:56 <charsets> I LOVE UBUNTU
[21:36] <Myrtti> 2008-08-24T02:03:58 <charsets> UBUNTU
[21:36] <Mez> GazzaK, how long has it been since you've actually been active in here?
[21:36] <Mez> @bansearcg charsets
[21:36] <Mez> @bansearch charsets
[21:37] <GazzaK> erm, a while
[21:37] <LjL> Mez: ok
[21:37] <GazzaK> ahh, it might be the nick
[21:37] <Mez> GazzaK, that may be why ;)
[21:37] <Myrtti> it is
[21:37] <PriceChild> 'aoirthoir' rings a bell..
[21:37] <Myrtti> for a looooong time I kept wondering a) wth happened to GazzaK b) who the hell is Gary
[21:37] <ompaul> PriceChild, not a good one
[21:38] <LjL> ...
[21:38] <GazzaK> Myrtti: seriously?  awww
[21:38] <LjL> PriceChild: not a good one.
[21:38] <LjL> aoirtroll...
[21:38] <PriceChild> Myrtti: when did you work it out?
[21:38] <ompaul> LjL, +1
[21:38]  * Mez huggles Myrtti... it's that blond hairdye isn't it?
[21:38] <PriceChild> I forget what he actually did?
[21:38] <Myrtti> sometime this spring - am not sure
[21:39] <GazzaK> Myrtti: lol, thats like a year after I changed nicks
[21:39]  * Myrtti looks at Mez boggled - but I don't dye my hair blonde...
[21:39] <GazzaK> it's natural?
[21:40] <Myrtti> you should see my baby pictures
[21:40] <Mez> Myrtti, maybe not physically, but mentally ;)
[21:40] <Mez> you should see mine...
[21:40]  * Myrtti smacks Mez 
[21:40] <Myrtti> you're even *now* blondER than me
[21:40] <GazzaK> oh, I'm a uncle again btw :-)
[21:40] <Mez> you know I enjoy that Myrtti
[21:41] <Mez> Myrtti, maybe in body, but not in soul ;)
[21:41] <Myrtti> that's true >___<
[21:41] <LjL> thought aunt
[21:41] <LjL> sorry i don't even really know why i'm picking on you today
[21:42] <Mez> LjL, cause it's fun?
[21:42] <LjL> ah... uhm, yes.
[21:42] <GazzaK> LjL: 'cos you want a good spanking?
[21:42] <LjL> nah, mez must have it right
[21:42] <Mez> GazzaK, no, it's me who enjoys that...
[21:42] <Mez> (but not from you *backs up against a wall*
[21:43]  * GazzaK spanks Mez 
[21:43]  * Myrtti pokes GazzaK with The Pink Fluffy Pen of Poking™
[21:43] <Myrtti> *SQUEEEAK*
[21:43] <GazzaK> where's the hob of seee
[21:43] <LjL> in the sea
[21:43] <Mez> Myrtti's the only person allowed to spank me... well, maybe christel too
[21:44] <ompaul> home by the sea
[21:44] <ompaul> ohhh
[21:44] <ompaul> genesis
[21:46] <Mez> http://is.gd/236D <-- told you I was cute when I was a kid.
[21:46] <Mez> What the hell happened...?
[21:47] <GazzaK> did you have a car accident?
[21:49] <Mez> aw... and here I was hoping someone would pipe up and be nice for once
[21:49]  * Mez slaps GazzaK 
[21:50]  * Myrtti decides to unveil her baby pic
[21:51]  * PriceChild wonders what channel he's stumbled into
[21:52] <Myrtti> kyuuute
[21:53] <Myrtti> mmmm cherry chewies
[21:53] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/2809661268/ <--
[21:53] <Myrtti> BLONDE
[21:54] <GazzaK> cor, you look innocent there
[21:54] <Myrtti>  and 25 years later, here I am
[21:55] <Myrtti> learning Python and eating cherry candy accompanied by two guinea pigs
[21:58] <Myrtti> Laku stares at me, I think he doesn't approve me eating candy
[22:02] <mneptok> woop woop woop
[22:02] <Myrtti> oh noes, it's a mneptok.
[22:02] <Myrtti> run.
[22:02] <ompaul> PriceChild, the one where people are real and the conversation false?
[22:03] <Pici> Going to vermont for the weekend, if the weathers nice I wont be on irc too much
[22:03] <Pici> cyas :)
[22:03] <Myrtti> ta-tah
[22:03]  * Pici waves
[22:04] <LjL> just when i've come back to this ugly sweaty city, he goes to vermont >:
[22:06] <Mez> 00.
[22:06] <Mez> .010.
[22:06] <Mez> Sorry, was mothsquishing
[22:06] <LjL> ugh
[22:06] <LjL> !overshare
[22:08] <Myrtti> http://www.simonpanrucker.com/beans.html
[22:17] <LjL> anyone familiar with partition table issues, steveire in #ubuntu definitely has a problem
[23:17] <jussio1> ssh on ipod touch :D
[23:19] <Mez> jussi01, jailbroken?
[23:56]  * Myrtti yawns