[01:22] <smp4488> anyone home?
[01:23] <StevenK> Somewhat
[01:24] <smp4488> im wanting to install mobile for my car pc
[01:25] <smp4488> the menlow image will that work with via processors?
[01:25] <StevenK> I would suggest the McCaslin image
[01:26] <smp4488> is it standalone or do i need an install of ubuntu first?
[01:26] <StevenK> It is standalone
[01:27] <smp4488> but for development on my main pc would i be better off installing ubuntu
[01:27] <smp4488> im a gentoo user
[01:27] <StevenK> Yes.
[01:28] <smp4488> what version?
[01:28] <StevenK> 8.04.1 is the current released version for both.
[01:28] <smp4488> gotcha
[01:28] <smp4488> this looks like it is going to be fun
[01:30] <smp4488> so what are your opinions so far?
[01:33] <StevenK> It does sound like fun
[01:33] <smp4488> what do you think of using it as a car pc interface?
[01:33] <StevenK> I've heard of other people trying it as well
[01:34] <smp4488> we will see how i do
[03:58] <Omeg1> Hello hello.
[03:59] <Omeg1> I have some questions on UME, anyone lurking?
[04:18] <persia> Omeg1: At least 40 people not including yourself.
[07:20] <Omeg1> persia, well - I was hoping someone might be on while I was...
[07:21] <persia> Omeg1: Yes, but many people were on then.  Asking if there are lurkers only interests the very very bored.  Asking some other question may interest someone.
[07:22] <Omeg1> Alright.  First off, how exactly does one get started with a dev environment for UME?  I installed all the ubuntu mobile packages, but I really haven't got any leads on where to go from there.
[07:22] <Omeg1> Kinda hoping I could get an environment set up.
[07:23] <Omeg1> I also installed ubuntu-mobile, but didn't really get more than some new apps in my Applications menu (cool games!)
[07:23] <persia> Well, there are two ways to do it.  One can install Ubuntu MID and do the development on the target machine, or one can do development on a remote machine, and pass packages to the target machine.
[07:24] <persia> I tend to use the latter model: editing and changing packages on an amd64 workstation, building an lpia .deb, and then installing that on the target machine.
[07:24] <Omeg1> I'll likely be doing python...
[07:24] <Omeg1> So it wouldn't matter either way.
[07:25] <Omeg1> Although how do you install UME only on a machine?
[07:25] <Omeg1> Is there a VM for that?
[07:25] <persia> I personally use vi and sbuild for 95% of what I do, so the packages I need installed locally are sbuild, vim, less, and devscripts.  There's also some useful stuff in ubutu-dev-tools, and the recommends will pull more than you need.
[07:26] <persia> You can install Ubuntu MID on a target machine using the images linked in the /topic, or run in KVM.
[07:26] <persia> Just boot the image, and it ought install.
[07:26] <Omeg1> Alright, so now I have on my 64bit machine here the ubuntu-mobile images
[07:27] <Omeg1> But when I run hildon-desktop, I get some pretty elaborate crashes.
[07:28] <persia> That's not surprising.  You really want to have your machine installed as the lpia architecture if you're going to use the 8.04.1 images.
[07:30] <persia> Mind you, if you're getting elaborate crashes with an lpia install, that's something that ought get fixed.
[07:32] <Omeg1> Yeah, I don't have an lpia machine...
[07:32] <Omeg1> Just my 64bit desktop
[07:33] <persia> Hrm.
[07:33] <persia> While you ought to be able to run lpia on your desktop, the hildon environment may not be ideal for typical desktop use.
[07:34] <persia> I'll recommend you run lpia in a virtual machine, and use that for testing.
[07:43] <Omeg1> That's what I'm leaning towards as well.
[07:43] <Omeg1> So lpia, is that an app or a platform then?
[07:44] <persia> lpia is an architecture.
[07:44] <persia> "lpia" is similar in role to "i386" or "amd64", and all three will probably run on your desktop.
[07:46] <Omeg1> What are the chances of the UME project taking on other architectures like ARMEL?
[07:53] <persia> Omeg1: Well, there's a general goal of trying to find a way to make the hildon packages less architecture-specific for MID, and the Mobile seed works in any architecture supported by Ubuntu (although there are few hppa handhelds).
[07:54] <gishaust> I have a ipaq 112 just given to me am I able to try embed ubuntu
[07:54] <persia> There was talk about armel support at UDS, but there's been no announcement.
[07:54] <persia> You might look at mojo.handhelds.org: not exactly official packages, but they ought run on armel.
[08:01] <gishaust> thanks for the info I will have a look
[08:07] <Omeg1> Yeah, I have an N810 and I'm hoping that UME comes around to supporting more than the intel devices.
[08:07] <Omeg1> intel-based I should say.
[08:07] <Omeg1> Maemo on the N810 seems weak - but is so close to what UME is... I'm surprised they haven't just put the work in themselves.
[08:38] <lool> persia: Around?
[08:39] <persia> lool: Generally :)
[08:39] <lool> persia: At the release meeting on friday, I mentionned the installer drop for alpha 5
[08:39] <lool> slangasek indicated that there's a deadline to get your code changes in before a5
[08:39] <persia> I saw that.
[08:39] <persia> Mind you, lpia is broken in other ways, so I have no expectation of a5 working anyway.
[08:40] <lool> persia: are the ubiquity tweaks on-track to be in the archive before Tuesday (milestone freeze)?
[08:40] <lool> -- was his question
[08:40] <lool> persia: Wow, it's not going to work at all?
[08:41] <persia> No.  You still can't even run apt-get
[08:41] <lool> persia: Please raise red flag here and mail the team/list/david/me whoever
[08:41] <lool> persia: Ah you mean the images are borken
[08:41] <persia> Yes, but I very much don't believe it's the images.
[08:42] <lool> Well I think it's qemu <-> kernel interactions
[08:42] <persia> Anyway, I'm hacking livecd-rootfs to build me i386 -mid images, and when I have that working, will go back to working on the installer.
[08:42] <persia> The issue can be replicated on a Q1U.
[08:42] <persia> It fails on real hardware.
[08:42] <persia> It has *nothing* to do with virtualisation.
[08:42] <lool> Hmm
[08:43] <lool> I think I should raise this with Michael
[08:43] <persia> I thought you did that on Friday.
[08:43] <lool> I did?
[08:44] <lool> I think we discussed moving to .27
[08:44] <persia> Oh.  I thought the fact that things didn't work was discussed as well.
[08:44] <lool> I don't really trust my memory, it could be, but I don't recall discussing any specifics
[08:49] <persia> Anyway, yeah, it doesn't work.  How and why it doesn't work is beyond my understanding.
[08:50] <persia> I get failures in renaming files.
[08:50] <lool> I really think this points all the way at kernel
[08:55] <lool> Is there a package carrying the CFLAGS used on the buildds?
[08:55] <lool> I think they add -Wformat=security or something like that, but would like to check exactly what
[08:56] <lool> format-security rather
[09:07] <persia> I don't know the name of the package: it may just be default settings for the tools themselves.  Check with keescook
[11:49] <heruan> how can I install Ubuntu MID on my Acer Aspire One (Atom based)?
[11:53] <persia> heruan: Which video chip does that use?
[11:59] <heruan> uhm... intel
[12:00] <heruan> now I search the model
[12:00] <heruan> Intel GMA 950
[12:01] <persia> OK.  I'd suggest booting the mccaslin image then, as I think the menlow image assumes -psb.  Note that this will reformat your machine, so you want to have a backup, etc. first.
[12:01] <heruan> persia: sure, thanks
[12:02] <persia> heruan: Good luck!
[13:38] <heruan> persia: uhm, I downloaded mccaslin
[13:38] <persia> heruan: OK.  And?
[13:38] <heruan> it's a .img file
[13:38] <heruan> dd to usb stick?
[13:39] <persia> Yep.
[13:39] <persia> A number of people have reported issues with bare dd: I'll recommend adding bs=1024K for best results.
[13:39] <heruan> persia: ok, thank you!
[13:41] <heruan> bs=1024 or bs=1024K ?
[13:41] <persia> I think 1024K
[13:42] <persia> (1 meg).  That ends up being a little over 500 blocks.
[13:42] <persia> If that doesn't work, you can try with 1k blocks.
[13:42] <persia> Ideally, it oughtn't make any difference, as the data in the .img doesn't consist of record blocks, but there seems to be some oddities about how dd handles very large numbers of blocks.
[13:43] <persia> There's a bug report against dd that seems to imply the issue is related to a 28-bit boundary, but I don't really understand dd well enough to know.
[13:44] <heruan> persia: ok, perfectly clear
[13:44] <heruan> :)
[14:48] <heruan> persia: ok, installed :)
[14:48] <heruan> but the mouse doesn't work...
[14:48] <heruan> no touchpad, nor usb mouse...
[14:50] <ogra> the menlow image is pretty specifically built for the samsung Q1 ultra, you need to make some changes to the used xorg.conf (mainly change the mouse entry to /dev/inut/mice in xorg-samsungq1ultra.conf or how that file is called)
[14:51] <heruan> ok, thank you. what's the user/pass to login on vty1?
[14:52] <ogra> ume ... no passwd
[14:52] <heruan> ok
[15:03] <heruan> touchpad works :)
[15:04] <heruan> and now... I can I enable the clutter UI?
[15:04] <heruan> *how
[15:10] <persia> Heh.  See, the clutter UI and the MID package aren't actually integrated in any particular way :)
[15:11] <persia> That said, you could certainly remove some packages and add others to do that, but I'm not sure which packages you specifically need to adjust.
[15:11] <persia> I believe the clutter-based UI stuff is based more on Ubuntu Desktop than on Ubuntu MID.
[15:12] <heruan> persia: oh, I didn't know... I saw the clutter UI at http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
[15:13] <heruan> it seems to be running on hildon desktop
[15:14] <heruan> I'll search how to do that ;)
[15:20] <persia> Hrm.  That page is significantly out of date.  Oh well.
[15:20] <persia> Thanks for the pointer.
[15:23] <heruan> :)
[15:25] <heruan> but, on balance... on an Acer Aspire One, is better to install a normal Ubuntu or the MID edition?
[15:28] <persia> I don't think either is right for that sort of model.  I have a Kohjinsha SR, and find both to be a poor fit.
[15:29] <persia> For intrepid, there will be both Ubuntu MID and Ubuntu Mobile, with the latter designed for 7-9" screens.
[15:29] <persia> But I doubt you want to wait until October :)
[15:30] <heruan> persia: eheh, of course I don't want to wait :p
[15:31] <heruan> persia: very interesting that thing about ubuntu mobile
[15:31] <heruan> and what about this: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current/
[15:31] <heruan> ?
[15:32] <persia> That's Ubuntu MID, for 4-6" devices.  You're encouraged to play with it, but it's mostly just a version refresh of the stuff you just installed.
[15:32] <persia> Also note it's not been debugged much, so use with caution :)
[15:32] <heruan> eheh, I like to be on the cutting edge
[15:32] <heruan> I use Intrepid on my notebook
[15:33] <heruan> mainly for NM 0.7
[15:33] <persia> In that case, go ahead any play with the daily.  It's essentially the current state of Ubuntu MID for intrepid.
[15:34] <heruan> so at this moment there isn't a version of Intrepid for 7-9"?
[15:34] <heruan> nor a testing version?
[15:35] <persia> Well, there's an ubuntu-mobile seed, and an ubuntu-mobile metapackage.  If you do a minimal install of Ubuntu with the alternate CD, and install ubuntu-mobile you ought get that.
[15:35] <persia> On the other hand, at this point I think about two people have tried it, so you'll be very much involved in helping get it in shape.
[15:36] <persia> Comments / opinions / thoughts welcome here, and please file *lots* of bugs.
[15:36] <heruan> of course!
[15:37] <heruan> bugs are to be fired against ubuntu-mobile package?
[15:37] <persia> heruan: You don't happen to be a developer, do you?
[15:37] <persia> No, against whichever package actually has the bug.
[15:37] <heruan> ok
[15:38] <persia> So, if, for instance, the bluetooth applet didn't respond to touchscreen events properly, you'd file a bug against bluez-gnome.
[15:40] <DNi1> Will ubuntu MID edition compatible with Wubi ?
[15:42] <persia> DNi1: I hadn't thought about that at all, and don't actually have a windows machine on which to test.
[15:42] <persia> DNi1: If you'd like to stuff casper-lupin into an image, and give it a shot, it might be worth seeing if it works.
[15:42] <persia> ogra: Where was the guide on adding stuff to images again?
[15:43] <persia> Oops.  That's "lupin-casper"
[15:43] <DNi1> that's what i thought :)
[15:44] <heruan> persia: here I am... sorry
[15:45] <heruan> that's the price to pay for using bleeding edge versions :p
[15:45] <heruan> random freezes
[15:45] <persia> heruan: No worries.  I haven't said anything of importance ince your last comment :)
[15:45] <heruan> I read your last comment, I will fire bugs to related packages
[15:45] <heruan> I was saying...
[15:46] <heruan> I'm not a very experienced developer, but I had recompiled few packages to fit my needs in the past
[15:47] <heruan> so maybe I'll be able to investigate on some bugs...
[15:47] <persia> That'd be great!  We've not so many developers looking at mobile: few have the hardware, and of those that do, many are just using -desktop.
[15:49] <heruan> okay, so let's go and try to install that ubuntu-mobile ;)
[15:51] <heruan> I have a local mirror of Intrepid repositories so I do a pxe-boot and netinstall... but it'll take a very long time, Aspire One has a solid state disk and it seems to have long writing access times...
[15:51] <heruan> I'll report here my impressions
[15:54] <persia> Great.  It ought look something like http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ubuntu-mobile-intrepid.png
[15:55] <heruan> whoa, that's great :D
[15:55] <heruan> and here I can install the clutter UI?
[15:56] <persia> I suspect so, but I've not sure.  I've not personally tried ubuntu-mobile yet.
[15:57] <heruan> ok, I'll find it out
[16:16] <DNi1> persia: ah ! there is a kvm image now ? 
[16:16] <DNi1> persia: sorry it's been a while i didnt see the repository of images
[16:20] <persia> DNi1: There is a KVM image for hardy.  The intrepid images seem to work as well in KVM as they do on hardware.
[16:23] <DNi1> persia: there seems many improvements on the interface with intrepid. are there other ?
[16:24] <ogra> the build system :)
[16:25] <ogra> and the input system (not fully working yet ut soon)
[16:25] <DNi1> ogra: can you tell me more about that ?
[16:25] <ogra> its using the livecd tools now 
[16:25] <DNi1> really ?
[16:25] <ogra> the installer will be ubiquity in a cut down version 
[16:26] <DNi1> my dreams come true ? :)
[16:26] <ogra> so you can actually influence the install, select a language and location etc
[16:26] <DNi1> great improvements
[16:26] <ogra> and we're working on an additional seed for the slightly bigger screens based on gnome and some extra pieces
[16:27] <ogra> i.e. ubuntu mid -> 800x480 and very small screens, ubuntu-mobile -> 1024x600 7-10"
[16:28] <ogra> very small 4-7" iirc
[16:28] <DNi1> my htc shift is based on a 7"
[16:28] <ogra> tough mobile will only be a first shot in intrepid ... 
[16:28] <ogra> *though
[16:28] <DNi1> but the native resolution is 840x480
[16:29] <ogra> thats mid then
[16:29] <DNi1> ii can do 1024x600 but it's not very nice
[16:29] <ogra> ah, compressed video mode or some such
[16:30] <DNi1> i think so
[16:30] <ogra> yeah, that usually breaks fonts etc
[16:30] <DNi1> a feature of intel drivers maybe
[16:30] <ogra> being rather blurry
[16:30] <DNi1> yeah
[16:30] <DNi1> useful for some web pages very big
[16:31] <ogra> for the classmate pc (7" 800x480) i developed a little screen switcher applet to do 800x600 panning mode ... thats a bit more usable
[16:31] <ogra> but has its own usability probs indeed
[16:32] <DNi1> i see
[16:32] <DNi1> maybe i can reuse it to do 1024x600
[16:34] <ogra> you can try with a different virtual size ... but that only works on hardy, i have never tested it with intrepid (since the classmate image is only aimed at hardy)
[16:34] <ogra> you can check the classmate-tools package, its in the archive
[16:35] <ogra> but needs the i810 driver and a special xorg.conf (shipped in the /usr/share/doc/classmate-tools dir)
[16:37] <DNi1> where is the intrepid version of MID edition ?
[16:38] <DNi1> i didnt see it on the official repository
[16:39] <ogra> its still not ready for mainstream ... will soon be there 
[16:39] <ogra> persia is working on the last bits of the installer 
[16:39] <ogra> (doesnt make much sense to have an uninstallable image)
[16:40] <DNi1> that's right 
[16:45] <DNi1> thx for the details 
[18:51] <va75a77a> I am developing on the Gumstix platform, would anyone know if there is a way to support or build ubuntu MID for the gumstix ARM architecture