[00:38] <yuriy> hmm amarok nightly won't play mp3s anymore
[00:39] <apachelogger> unlikely
[00:39] <ryanakca> Nice to finally have a working X if not yet a properly working KDE4...
[00:39] <blizzz> em, it actually can play something?
[00:39] <yuriy> that is, phonon claims not to be able to play mp3's
[00:39] <yuriy> if I go to the audo configuration, there seems to be no backend
[00:39] <apachelogger> ryanakca: not yet porperly working KDE4?
[00:39] <apachelogger> *evil look*
[00:40] <apachelogger> yuriy: maybe phonon-xine is broken
[00:40] <apachelogger> yuriy: actually is amarok-nightly-kdebase installed at all?
[00:41] <ryanakca> apachelogger: well, it logs in, but it is *excessively* slow. And it seems to ignore the ``mv ~/.kde ~/.kde3-old && cp -fra ~/.kde4 ~/kde'' I did before logging in
[00:42] <apachelogger> well
[00:42] <apachelogger> moving .kde4 to kde certainly ain't gonna work very well
[00:42] <yuriy> apachelogger: it was, but amarok-nightly-kdebase-runtime wasn't for some reason. anyways, I've installed the beta (amarok-kde4) now instead
[00:42] <apachelogger> yuriy: -runtime is a transition package
[00:42] <ryanakca> apachelogger: no? I thought Intrepid's KDE4 used ~/.kde ...
[00:42] <apachelogger> cp -fra ~/.kde4 ~/kde
[00:43] <apachelogger> take a close look
[00:43] <apachelogger> I tend to think the ~/kde is dotless
[00:44] <ryanakca> sorry, ~/.kde
[02:01] <seele> hmm.. did we decide that konqueror wouldn't have icons only, not icons + text, or is the default messed up?
[02:01] <seele> it looks like all the apps are getting configured with the global setting except for konq
[02:01] <vorian> nixternal: ping
[02:08] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: ping
[02:26] <jjesse> i'm trying to track down how i got synaptic on my intrepid install, did it come w/ firefox?
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> probably
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> it needs it for whatever it does to install flash
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> with ubufox
[02:26] <jjesse> so it's conflicting now for add/remove programs in the application launcher when i type in add
[02:26] <jjesse> up pops synaptic
[02:27] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: i think that is correct
[02:27]  * Jucato confirms it :)
[02:27] <jjesse> is there a way to make it use adept/adept batch instead?
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> make a kubufox?
[02:28] <yuriy> wait for a decent webkit browser, then add a conflicts: firefox to kubuntu-desktop? :P
[02:28] <jjesse> is there then a way to make adept add/remove programs "higher priority" in search
[02:43] <ScottK> smarter: kleopatra is in Universe.  It either needs to be promoted to Main or dropped to Suggests (it was suggests in KDE3).
[03:24] <JontheEchidna> Riddell, Hobbsee, nixternal, ScottK, any core-dev at all: http://aplg.kollide.net/.123123/fix/
[03:25]  * ScottK looks
[03:25] <JontheEchidna> [22:23:27] <apachelogger> Riddell, JontheEchidna, smarter, vorian: http://aplg.kollide.net/.123123/fix/ please find a sponsor (sanity checking is very welcome, but these version have to be in alpha5 and for that matter get in ASAP)
[03:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger accidentally switched out the 4.1.1 with the 4.1.0 tarballs in the ones Riddell uploaded a few hours ago
[03:26] <ScottK> Didn't most of the get uploaded already?
[03:26] <ScottK> Ay
[03:26] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:27] <ScottK> Did the tarball claim to be 4.1.1 or did it claim to be 4.1.9?
[03:43] <digistyl3> testers for kgrubeditor?
[03:44] <digistyl3> you want to include it in intrepid?
[03:44] <digistyl3> :D
[03:44] <digistyl3> anyone online?
[03:45] <JontheEchidna> most of europe is asleep right now ;-)
[03:45]  * JontheEchidna is in the US
[03:46] <digistyl3> i'm europe
[03:46] <digistyl3> ;D
[03:46] <digistyl3> i couldn't sleep
[03:46] <digistyl3> i would like to help test kgrubeditor
[03:46] <digistyl3> :)
[03:46] <JontheEchidna> well, the latest version is in Intrepid
[03:47]  * seele wonders if people who have never seen the desktop plasma widget will know what it is
[03:47] <seele> especially if they have no files in ~/Desktop/
[03:48] <seele> er, Folder plasma widget
[03:48] <JontheEchidna> it would be nice if it would go away if desktop was empty
[03:48] <seele> no, because then no one would be able to discover it can be configured for any folder, it's not just the "Desktop"
[03:48] <JontheEchidna> good point
[03:48] <seele> it would be more useful if it were linked to ~ or Documents
[03:49] <seele> but we also have old user vs. new user issues
[03:49] <digistyl3> JontheEchidna: i have to repartition my hard to install intrepid, and i can't use virtualization, because i have only 768 mb of ram, and a sempron processor, but will install intrepid in the morning i suppose :)
[03:49] <digistyl3> btw, when's the newest alpha coming out?
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> in a few days
[03:49] <seele> older users who upgrade will likely have something in Desktop.  fresh installs and new users will not
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> digistyl3: there are also packages in the kde4 ppa I think
[03:50] <digistyl3> JontheEchidna: is it 0.8-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa1 ?
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> might not be up to date though
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> latest vesion is 0.8.1 in Intrepid
[03:51] <goatsocks> kgrubeditor seems to work fine here, but has a couple of UI inconsistencies vis a vis other systemsettings applets
[03:52] <seele> hmm.. i was thinking about misusing the bug system and creating a ticket for people to say theyve tested kgrubeditor
[03:52] <seele> goatsocks: mind submitting a bug to launchpad so i can check the ui issues out?
[03:53]  * JontheEchidna passes out
[03:53] <digistyl3> does anyone know about a python guide for programmers? (for someone who knows c++ and some qt)
[03:53] <goatsocks> seele: sure, i'll ping you when i'm done
[03:58] <digistyl3> any suggestions please?
[03:59] <digistyl3> don't want to go through all the basic stuff (what is a variable... what is a function) cause i know pascal and c++ :)
[04:00] <yuriy> digistyl3: look at the tutorial on the python website. you'll need to skip over some stuff, but it's a good primer and reference
[04:00] <ScottK> digistyl3: Python in a Nutshell might suite you, although it may be short on examples for you.
[04:00] <ScottK> yuriy: I've got a bug day idea for you.
[04:00] <yuriy> me too, to find a day for bugs
[04:00] <digistyl3> yuriy: this one? http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html
[04:00] <ScottK> yuriy: What about a triage day devoted to finding bugs fixed in KDE3.5.10 to help make the case for pushing it to updates?
[04:01] <yuriy> digistyl3: yes
[04:01] <digistyl3> ok, will eat my way through the tutorials, thanks :)
[04:01] <yuriy> ScottK: it's in backports now?
[04:01] <digistyl3> using qt with python seems to be easier than with c++
[04:02] <yuriy> ScottK: could be a good idea. I could set up a page in the course of this week and do it next tuesday?
[04:02] <ScottK> yuriy: Yes.
[04:02] <yuriy> ScottK: a tag or something since there's no obvious way to express it
[04:03] <ScottK> Sounds good.
[04:03] <ScottK> yuriy: Bug 261840 is my tracking bug for the good, the bad, and the ugly on 3.5.10
[04:04] <digistyl3> it would be great if LP had something called "missions"
[04:05] <digistyl3> a "mission" would have packages assigned to it
[04:05] <digistyl3> people assigned to it
[04:05] <digistyl3> status, etc :)
[04:05] <yuriy> ScottK: the systray not using two rows would really bother me
[04:06] <ScottK> Well awen says it's fixable, I haven't had a chance to look yet.
[04:06] <yuriy> you used kde3.5.10 for regressions?
[04:12] <ScottK> I'm not sure I understand the question?
[04:12] <yuriy> the tag
[04:13] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:13] <ScottK> I used it for anything 3.5.10 related.
[04:13] <ScottK> I think it could be for fixes too.
[04:13] <yuriy> so just use that one for this?
[04:13] <ScottK> It's just that regressions is all I have so far.
[04:13] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:16] <ScottK> I think it'll be nice to have a bug day that is for people who don't run the development release.
[04:45] <goatsocks> seem to have a piece of kitty litter stuck under my keyboard, shorting it and locking up X :/
[05:39] <ScottK> nixternal: You up and sober?
[06:50] <goatsocks> seele: ok added my kgrubeditor comment and screenshot
[07:28] <ScottK> smarter: I took care of moving kleopatra back to suggests when I re-uploaded all of kde4 just now.
[09:37] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: pong
[09:42] <larsivi> hola
[09:42] <larsivi> I am trying to use kde 4.1, but it still fails to heed my xorg settings
[09:43] <larsivi> they are correct in system settings
[09:43] <larsivi> kde consider my laptop screen as primary, whereas it is the external one that is
[09:44] <larsivi> thus I get my panel in the middle of the screen
[09:45] <smarter> larsivi: have you tried krandrtray?
[09:45] <larsivi> smarter: not that I know
[09:45] <larsivi> smarter: do I install it from apt_
[09:46] <smarter> it should already be installed
[09:46] <larsivi> gah, it took my keyboard settings too
[09:46] <smarter> it's in kdebase-workspace-bin if it's not already installed
[09:48] <larsivi> it only gives me system settings
[09:48] <larsivi> afaics
[09:49] <larsivi> the problem is quite obviously that the panel is looking at the wrong screen to figure out what size it can be
[09:49] <larsivi> this was a problem with the 3.5 panel back when xrandr 1.2 and friends were originally introduced too, but that has long since been fixed
[09:50] <larsivi> note that I have no problems using the rest of the desktop
[09:50] <larsivi> ah, completely removing the panel fixes the size it seems, but now I have to readd the stuff on it ...
[09:56] <larsivi> ok, thanks, lets see if this works
[10:16] <Nightrose> apachelogger: yuriy: I had people complain about not having a backend yesterday in #amarok
[10:26] <larsivi> hi again :) I try to get kopete kde4 working, but it won't pick up qca-tls
[11:03] <larsivi> hmm, I think this is present in kde3 too - any global shortcut involving just Alt (like Alt+F1/F2 for krunner) doesn't work
[11:03] <larsivi> Ctrl+Alt+something works
[11:30] <ScottK> kdebase-workspace FTBFS on i386.  I'm about to upload a fix.
[11:35] <ScottK> uploaded.
[12:50] <\sh> kdelibs5 4:4.1.1+really4.1.1-0ubuntu1 <- what is this for a version number? ,-)
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> \sh: apachelogger accidentally uploaded kde4libs with the 4.1.0 tarball
[12:51] <\sh> oh knows
[12:51] <\sh> aehm
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> yes, ScottK saved our skins
[12:51] <\sh> oh nos ;)
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> and uploaded the fixed last night
[13:06] <ScottK> \sh: How's your C++?  Would you perhaps be able to look at the build failure log for kdepimlibs on AMD64 and make sense of what's wrong?
[13:14] <\sh> ScottK: buildlog?
[13:14] <ScottK> \sh: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepimlibs/4:4.1.1-0ubuntu2/+build/706343
[13:15]  * ScottK goes off to take the youngest out to the school bus.
[13:15] <\sh> its da cmake
[13:16] <ScottK> Maybe you can conspire with apachelogger and figure it out while I'm out at the bus.
[13:16] <apachelogger> I asked in #cmake
[13:16] <apachelogger> no answer so far
[13:17] <\sh> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t501836-how-do-i-use-stdoutofrange-.html
[13:17] <\sh> ScottK: src pkg is on archive?
[13:18] <apachelogger> \sh: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepimlibs
[13:18] <smarter> I'm already building it
[13:20] <smarter> cmake doesn't fail here
[13:21] <smarter> apachelogger: ^
[13:21] <apachelogger> Oo
[13:21] <apachelogger> wth
[13:21] <\sh> smarter: pbuilder or sbuild?
[13:21] <smarter> pbuilder
[13:21] <\sh> smarter: you have the special sbuild packages installed ?
[13:22] <smarter> I don't think so?
[13:22] <\sh> i mean the add packages for the buildserver
[13:22] <\sh> I'll build it with sbuild now
[13:22] <smarter> no idea what it is :p
[13:22] <smarter> okay
[13:25] <\sh> but on my sbuild it doesn't fail too
[13:26] <apachelogger> now I am worried
[13:26] <apachelogger> \sh: could it have been a temporary issue?
[13:27] <smarter> yeah for random bugs
[13:27] <\sh> apachelogger: I'm asking on #u-d
[13:27] <\sh> apachelogger: btw...can you rebuild via lp mouseclick? ,-)
[13:27] <apachelogger> kdepimlibs is in main
[13:28] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: still around?
[13:28] <ScottK> I'll just retry it then.
[13:28] <\sh> ScottK: tbh, it looks like a borked buildd ...
[13:29] <ScottK> OK.  Just retried it.  We'll see.
[13:32] <apachelogger> oh, canonical increased the amount of ppa builders
[13:40] <apachelogger> ScottK, \sh: https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/yellow
[13:40] <apachelogger> 11%
[13:40] <ScottK> Looks like it's past where it failed before.
[13:40] <apachelogger> so it was a temporary issue
[13:40] <ScottK> Yep.
[13:40]  * ScottK was sitting here wishing he could tail -f that.
[13:42] <ScottK> \sh: Thanks for the help.
[13:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: Konqueror with autorefresh on the buildd's web page is almost as good.
[13:42] <apachelogger> 33% now
[13:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: Thanks again for the sponsoring :)
[13:43] <\sh> ScottK: looks like it works now ,-)
[13:43] <ScottK> I'm currently working on lpia.  Most of it FTBFS because sbuild fails the build instead of depwaiting when a build dep is uninstallable.
[13:43] <ScottK> Yep.
[13:50] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: ping when you log on
[13:51] <apachelogger> seele: I doubt that he will see that, considering he is not online.
[13:57] <seele> apachelogger: usually he checks logs before he logs on, otherwise you're right :P
[13:58] <apachelogger> ah :)
[14:03] <\sh> ScottK: when building for backports, are the backports pocket used for building the backports?
[14:04] <ScottK> Yes
[14:57] <nixternal> good morning! how was everyone's weekend?
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> pretty ok
[15:01] <Jucato> I forgot what happened this weekend
[15:02] <Jucato> but last weekend was a blast :)
[15:26] <hdevalence> smarter: ping
[15:26] <smarter> pong
[15:26] <asfak> Kgrubeditor after last update on alpha4 crashes after start. I am asked to enter password and whoops, it disappears. THis was not the case last week. let me update today again
[15:27] <hdevalence> smarter: I've been told you do the guidance-power-manager?
[15:27] <smarter> hdevalence: I've done the packaging if that's what you mean
[15:27] <seele> asfak: see bug 262035
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> oh, just the packaging...
[15:28] <hdevalence> smarter: it has a bug and I'm going to make a patch. I have a KDE SVN account but it might be more polite to talk to the maintainer first
[15:29] <asfak> yes, that's exactly what is happening
[15:29] <smarter> hdevalence: I'm not sure myself who the maintainer is ;) I think Riddell worked on it
[15:30] <seele> asfak: the update hasn't been pushed yet afaik
[15:31] <asfak> ok, I will wait for the update....
[15:46] <mornfall> Riddell: Hi.
[15:46] <Riddell> hi mornfall
[15:47] <mornfall> I have 2 regression fixes on Adept 3, is there anything else that should go to beta2? I'd probably release this week.
[15:47] <mornfall> (I have signature validation on the list as well.)
[15:47] <Riddell> mornfall: the upgrader not marking anything for upgrade is the main issue I've noticed
[15:48] <mornfall> Riddell: Yes, that's fixed.
[15:48] <mornfall> The other is that read-only mode broke. Fixed too.
[15:49] <Riddell> mornfall: the app icons are missing, system-software-update seems a suitable choice from oxygen
[15:50] <mornfall> Ah, right, app icons.
[15:50] <mornfall> So saying icon=system-software-update and such in .desktop would fix that, right?
[15:50] <mornfall> Icon*
[15:50] <Riddell> yep
[15:50] <mornfall> Good, I'll add that to TODO.
[15:50] <Riddell> super
[16:28] <jussi01> Riddell: ping!
[16:28] <Riddell> hi jussi01
[16:29] <jussi01> heya Riddell, did you notice my PM from last night?
[16:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: please trigger a retry of kdebase kdenetwork and kdeutils on amd64
[16:45] <seaLne> should hardy->intrepid currently work?
[17:02] <Riddell> seaLne: it should yes
[17:02] <Riddell> actual upgrade tests welcome
[17:03] <seaLne> The upgrade needs a total of 201M free space on disk '/boot'
[17:05] <seaLne> aptitude wanted to remove kde, update-manager gives that error. wtf it wants to install that much in /boot i don't know
[17:06] <seaLne> my /boot is only 200M :(
[17:16] <apachelogger> Oo
[17:16] <apachelogger> hm
[17:24] <apachelogger> now seriously, this is getting weird
[17:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: please retry these 3 again
[17:25] <apachelogger>   libplasma-dev: Depends: libplasma2 (= 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu9) but it is not going to be installed
[17:33] <Riddell> apachelogger: done
[17:33] <Riddell> seaLne: nothing in there you can clean?
[17:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: are there any rumours about konqueror not quitting on kde-packager?
[17:44] <Riddell> nope
[17:46] <seaLne> Riddell: it can't possibly actually need to install 200M for a kernel
[17:50] <Riddell> seaLne: wouldnt't think so, I'm using 35 megs and I have two installed
[17:50] <Riddell> might be worth filing a bug on update-manager
[17:51] <seaLne> yeah
[17:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: I really don't get why base, network and utils don't want to build, please take a look at it
[17:52] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/4:4.1.1-0ubuntu3/+build/706622
[17:53] <apachelogger> the new libplasma-dev should be avaialble for > 1 hour
[17:54] <Riddell> "Built successfully"
[17:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/4:4.1.1-0ubuntu2/+build/706350
[17:58] <Riddell> have patience, soyuz will catch up with itself eventually
[17:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: hope so :S
[18:01] <seaLne> upgrade fail: http://paste.ubuntu.com/42764/
[18:01] <apachelogger> oh
[18:01] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: Artemis_Fowl is here
[18:02] <seaLne> this the change to 4 as kde i presume?
[18:02] <apachelogger> seaLne: you should better wait until kdepim is built
[18:02] <apachelogger> we fixed the kdepim upgrade bugs in 4.1.1
[18:02] <seaLne> ah
[18:02] <Riddell> seaLne: what are you using to upgrade?
[18:03] <seaLne> likely to be done by tommorow morning?
[18:03] <seaLne> apt-get
[18:04] <apachelogger> seaLne: most likely and I suggest using update-manager for series upgrades
[18:05] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: hi
[18:05] <seaLne> see my earlier problem with u-m
[18:05] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: did you catch my ping in the logs?
[18:05] <apachelogger> oh, right
[18:06] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: uhm no. let me check them
[18:06] <seele> ah, i just said "ping"
[18:06] <seele> since you sometimes check logs
[18:06] <Artemis_Fowl> ok
[18:07] <seele> so like i said, i created a qa bug to help keep track of how many people test kgrubeditor, otherwise we wont know how many people actually use it unless they report a bug
[18:07] <Artemis_Fowl> btw Kon/Con is shorter than Konstantinos
[18:08] <seele> hehe ok :)
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: i'm subsscribed to all bugs
[18:08] <seele> right, i figured you were, i wasnt sure if i explained why i did it though
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> I read them all but I found no time to reply
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> replyinh right now
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> replying*
[18:08] <seele> what did you think of relabelling the OS list to GRUB Boot List instead of using "operating system"
[18:08] <claydoh> seele: replying as well, once i grab screenshots
[18:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: got time for some removals?
[18:09] <seele> claydoh: great
[18:12] <Riddell> apachelogger: mibby
[18:13] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: phone call, back in about 30 minutes
[18:13] <Artemis_Fowl> k
[18:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: qgrubeditor needs to go (superseded by kgrubeditor), kopete-otr (included in official kopete), kiconedit-kde4 (dropped -kde4), kgrab-kde4 (dropped -kde4), kio-opt (you only removed the binary but not the source some time ago), kde-systemsettings (superseded by systemsettings), meta-kde4 (meat-kde should changed to use the kde4 packages)
[18:25] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I think GRUB Boot List is indeed better. Should I rename it?
[18:29] <asfak> i cannot access my window drives (though i can see them) as a users. But if i run dolphin as a root, i can access them. I know it's permission problem. Can anyone help me how to set permision in such a way that from now on whenever i boot to kubuntu intrepid, i can access windows drive without any hassles. I never had any problem in Ubuntu. There was never such permission problem.
[18:33] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: yes
[18:39] <Artemis_Fowl> damn. no developing again... :(
[18:40] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: answered most of the questions
[18:40] <Artemis_Fowl> need some more feedback for one
[18:40] <Artemis_Fowl> and some more searching for another
[18:40] <apachelogger> asfak: #kubuntu for support please
[18:43] <Artemis_Fowl> damn. bleeeding edge KDE is not so funny with e-mails... -.-
[18:45] <asfak> apachelogger, at #kubuntu they throw me here for any question about Intrepid.
[18:47] <asfak> I am not asking for support directly. But i wish developer automount window drives as default in Kubuntu Intrepid very similar to Ubuntu.
[18:48] <seele> claydoh: can you include your current menu.lst?
[18:49] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: there is no need. why do this?
[18:49] <claydoh> seele: sure, just after i rant a bit on K-F-N ;)
[18:49] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: what if his autmagic tags are messed up? and the kubuntu entry isn't in the list?
[18:49] <seele> that could be why he can't move it
[18:50] <seele> i havnt seen the screenshot, just read the email
[18:50] <Artemis_Fowl> well the behaviour ius the expected one
[18:50] <Artemis_Fowl> is*
[18:50] <seele> for some reason i can't create any new connections.. grr
[18:51] <Artemis_Fowl> he can't move his hardy entries up because the interpid ones are autoomagic protected
[18:51] <Artemis_Fowl> and the inverse
[18:51] <seele> oh, so they are outside automagic?  why arent they being managed?
[18:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: Who do I poke for 4.1.1 tarball changes? dirk seems to be awayish.
[18:51] <seele> hardy uses automagic
[18:52] <Artemis_Fowl> different menu.lst
[18:52] <Artemis_Fowl> interpid doesn't care about hardy obviously
[18:52] <seele> hrm.. is that going to be a problem?
[18:53] <Artemis_Fowl> obviously yes
[18:53] <Artemis_Fowl> if he updates hardy's kernel he will have to manually update the kernel
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> update-grub will update the hardy's menu.lst not intrepid's
[18:54]  * Artemis_Fowl keeps saying Interpid instead of Intrepid...
[18:55] <Artemis_Fowl> anyway
[18:55] <Artemis_Fowl> I have to go
[18:55] <Artemis_Fowl> bb
[18:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: changes?
[18:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: konqueror doesn't terminate properly without r854183
[19:01] <Riddell> apachelogger: which isn't in dirk's tars?
[19:01] <apachelogger> no
[19:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/kde4libs_4.1.1+really4.1.1-0ubuntu1_to_ubuntu2.diff
[19:12] <Riddell> ok
[19:24] <Riddell> uploaded
[19:25] <claydoh> seele: I  didn't consider trying to click on a greyed-out button, so wasn't seeng the resulting popup
[19:41] <seele> claydoh: yes, the fact that it is greyed out would prevent people from trying to click on it.  it seems a problem that people don't know why it is disabled
[19:41] <seele> we thought of putting information above the list which explained automagic
[19:44] <claydoh> its probably not a big issue
[19:45] <claydoh> actually, might be to those who still want to boot to windows or something else
[19:46] <claydoh> but the 'default' setting is quite obvious and works :)
[19:53] <apachelogger> uhm
[19:53] <apachelogger> google chrome's QA seems unfair
[19:53] <apachelogger> they have an own bot for testing
[19:54] <jjesse> that does seem unfair :)
[20:11] <jjesse> wow the volume buttons are working in my vm for intrepid
[20:11] <jjesse> that's awesome great job guys
[20:11] <jjesse> so i have sound, plus the keys wokring in my vm
[20:16] <goatsocks> anyone know what gui toolkit chrome will use?
[20:37] <seele> are there any other ways to gather user feedback besides bugs?
[20:37] <seele> i want to gather comments about the icon alignment change, but i dont want people complaining about making another arbitrary bug in launchpad
[20:38] <seele> although, it is the easiest and most accessible way to record it
[20:42] <Nightrose> seele: who complained? getting userfedback is a perfectly valid reason to open a bug imho
[20:43] <Nightrose> and it is not like one more or less makes a difference
[20:46] <seele> no, but it isn't exactly bug use
[20:46] <seele> if you as a triager don't care, then i'll keep on doing it, hehe
[20:47] <smarter> a forum thread may be more appropriate, that's where you find users ;)
[20:49] <seele> i never use forums, and i'm not sure if i want to encourage regular users to alpha test stuff that could muck up their system like a broken grub menu file
[20:49] <Nightrose> +1
[20:52] <smarter> usually there's a development/bleeding-edge forum, but oh well
[20:52] <seele> there is?  huh.  i should have probably known that
[20:53] <seele> i dunno what it is, i never liked forums.  i dont understand why you should have to go back and check for updates
[20:53] <seele> if you get email notifications, why arent you just using a mailing list?
[20:54] <Nightrose> hehe seele doesn't seem to be a forum person
[20:54] <Nightrose> just like me
[20:55] <goatsocks> other distros use their bug tracker for other things than strictly bugs
[20:55] <goatsocks> gentoo uses bugzilla for personnel matters even
[20:55] <Nightrose> goatsocks: so does ubuntu
[20:56]  * claydoh is a forum person :)
[20:56] <claydoh> but only uz k-u gets so, well, cranky :)
[20:57] <claydoh> s/because/uz
[20:57] <Nightrose> claydoh: I will be back at home tomorrow night and hope to get to your email then
[20:57] <claydoh> Nightrose: ok :)
[20:58] <smarter> mailing-list are not very user-friendly, viewing a thread can be painful(you need to click on the "next message in thread" button for every message), etc...
[20:58]  * Nightrose is currently _again_ drowning in a email backlog :/
[20:58] <Nightrose> I should travel less
[20:58] <smarter> but I'm an admin of the French Ubuntu forum, so I'm probably biased ;)
[20:58] <claydoh> no, don't you'll miss it later
[20:58]  * claydoh misses travelling
[20:59] <Nightrose> hehe
[20:59]  * claydoh is biased towards forums for similar reasons, smarter :)
[21:02] <goatsocks> the signal to noise ratio on forums is far too low when technical things are being discussed
[21:02] <goatsocks> forums are more suited to socializing than tech discussion imo
[21:06] <goatsocks> of course launchpad (and bugzilla etc.) don't always live up to their potential, often on a bug report you'll have to wade through a dozen "i confirm this" comments, even after the nature of the bug has been identified ;)
[21:10] <apachelogger> http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux
[21:15] <goatsocks> apachelogger: still don't see any gui toolkit depends, should i assume gtk?
[21:16] <apachelogger> I don't know
[21:20] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/chrome.tar.bz2
[21:20] <apachelogger> bigger than firefox :P
[21:21] <goatsocks> their svn keeps dropping out
[21:21] <apachelogger> I am wondering hwy
[21:25] <goatsocks> i guess 168 MB has something to do with it :)
[21:32] <goatsocks> looking at the header files, seems they don't rely on external toolkits, they do their own rendering
[21:34] <apachelogger> most reasonable
[21:34] <apachelogger> but I think that build instruction page is bogus
[21:34] <apachelogger> it suggest to checkout src/chrome
[21:34] <apachelogger> but SConstruct expects ../build
[21:38] <apachelogger> ok, this checkout is going to take forever
[21:39] <goatsocks> they've probably been slashdotted
[21:39] <apachelogger> ha
[21:40] <apachelogger> google servers don't get slashdotted :P
[21:40] <apachelogger> it's just that this svn is gigantic
[21:40] <goatsocks> svn isn't known for its resource friendliness
[21:40] <apachelogger> all of webkit + ff2 + ff3 + scons + about 10 libraries....
[21:41] <apachelogger> ohhhhh
[21:41] <apachelogger> that thing even got an about memory page
[21:41] <apachelogger> this is too awesome
[21:41] <apachelogger> <3 geekware
[21:42] <goatsocks> yeah, i heard it can tell you the mem usage of individual plug-ins and such
[21:42] <apachelogger> yes
[21:42] <apachelogger> not just that
[21:42] <apachelogger> it can differ by private and shared memory
[21:42] <apachelogger> and for the virtual kind between private and mapped
[21:43] <apachelogger> incognito mode :D
[21:43] <goatsocks> that too, i know of one privacy-related project that is already considering using chrome for that feature
[21:50] <apachelogger> right, they fixed the build indstructions to use src instead of src/chrome
[21:54] <goatsocks> cnn just did a spot on chrome
[21:55] <goatsocks> MS is probably crapping themselves
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> I heard about chrome on the radio
[21:55] <goatsocks> looks like the webkit canvas is used for everything, even the tabs and controls
[21:56] <goatsocks> a bit like a XUL app in that respect
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> they should've used Qt
[21:57] <goatsocks> JontheEchidna: at least they didn't opt for gtk or wx ;)
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> yes
[21:57] <apachelogger> I really don't care
[21:57] <apachelogger> it looks hot
[21:57] <apachelogger> everything else doesn't matter
[21:57] <goatsocks> heh
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> can has screenshot?
[21:57] <apachelogger> hail chrome!
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> *can haz screenshot?
[21:58] <apachelogger> un moment, s'il te plaît
[21:58] <apachelogger> hm
[21:59]  * apachelogger is wondering why ksnapshot is not ported to windows
[22:00]  * JontheEchidna suspects a nasty X dependency
[22:00] <seele> oh i so wish
[22:00] <seele> <3 ksnapshot
[22:00] <apachelogger> <3 ksnapshot 2
[22:00] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/chrome.jpg
[22:01] <JontheEchidna> hot
[22:01] <apachelogger> and I think there is some bug on kubuntu.org
[22:01] <apachelogger> rendering takes awfully long
[22:01] <apachelogger> and it fails completely in qtwebkit
[22:02] <Riddell> works here in arora
[22:02] <apachelogger> hm, then maybe kdewebkit screws up
[22:03] <apachelogger> omg, that checkout is still running
[22:03] <goatsocks> i admire how they've reclaimed some space from the window manager's titlebar
[22:03] <goatsocks> what does it look like non-maximized?
[22:04] <seele> wow, theyre very serious about using the tab metaphor correctly
[22:05] <JontheEchidna> goatsocks: http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/linux.media/300/chrome.png
[22:05] <goatsocks> seele: you like how tabs were originally used in smalltalk back in the 70's? ;)
[22:06] <goatsocks> s/you like/you mean like/
[22:06]  * seele suspects chrome will be optimized to work with google cloud apps
[22:06] <seele> goatsocks: not necessarily, but that is the correct way to use the tab metaphor
[22:06] <apachelogger> seele: it is already
[22:06] <apachelogger> the whole purpose of chrome is to make better use of google's apps
[22:06] <apachelogger> and I have to say, I love that interface
[22:06] <seele> apachelogger: there are functions in google apps that only work in chrome?
[22:07] <apachelogger> seele: not yet, but for example the javascript engine rewrite was only because of the google apps
[22:07] <apachelogger> they are making heavy use of js
[22:07] <seele> ah
[22:07] <apachelogger> and chrome comes with a built in google gears
[22:07] <apachelogger> so you can take google docs and reader offline
[22:08] <seele> hmm.. didnt konq developers discuss trying to put tools inside the document area below the tabs for a while?
[22:08] <seele> although i think they tried putting it in the document instead of moving the toolbar below the tab
[22:08] <apachelogger> \sh: oh
[22:08] <seele> it makes a lot of sense.. it's kindof weird how you click on a tab in other browsers and a static item changes
[22:08] <apachelogger> \sh: do you have a wine trunk build? if so, could you try running chrome?
[22:08] <seele> if the location bar belongs to the tab, it isn't as awkward since it is conceptually a new page
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I have a somewhat recent wine build
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> wine-1.1.2-307-g520ab5c
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> eek, 1 minor version behind
[22:10] <apachelogger> rofl
[22:10] <apachelogger> 2.4G    .
[22:10] <apachelogger> that source is gigantic
[22:10] <goatsocks> ugh
[22:11]  * JontheEchidna facepalms
[22:11]  * apachelogger starts compression
[22:11] <goatsocks> either that, or they have 10 years worth of svn history stored
[22:11] <apachelogger> only 1600 revisions IIRC
[22:12] <apachelogger> but webkit itself is already quite big
[22:13] <JontheEchidna> ok, the installer doesn't work with my wine
[22:13] <goatsocks> time to reboot and see if these 4.1.1 updates blow up my system, brb
[22:13]  * JontheEchidna git's up
[22:13]  * JontheEchidna git up's
[22:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maybe I should send you the downloaded stuff
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> ok
[22:18] <apachelogger> or maybe not :P
[22:21] <goatsocks> yay, kdesudo works again with Login Manager from System Settings
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger got a patch from fedora for that
[22:22] <JontheEchidna> which was nice of them
[22:22] <apachelogger> they got a << "-i" << QString( mItem->service->icon() ) << in return
[22:22]  * apachelogger even remembered that syntax :P
[22:23]  * goatsocks is impressed
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> what does that do?
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> make the icons for the modules work with kdesudo?
[22:24] <apachelogger> yus
[22:24] <apachelogger> we also have an << "-d" << before that
[22:24] <apachelogger> that doesn't make too much sense with kdesu though
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> the icon is tinier than most apps
[22:25] <apachelogger> yeah, I need to poke master tonio
[22:25] <apachelogger> kdesudo currentl expects an icon file rather than an icon name
[22:26] <apachelogger> and I really don't see why systemsettings should create an icon file path just because kdesudo isn't inteligent enough
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: currently systemsettings freezes once it launches kdesudo
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> if you cancel
[22:27] <apachelogger> kdesudo's fault
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> whee
[22:27] <apachelogger> run kdesudo in gdb
[22:27] <apachelogger> it doesn't quit upon cancel
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> that's probably why I sometimes get a kdesudo when session is restored on startup...
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: chromeSetup.exe doesn't work with the latest Wine
[22:29] <apachelogger> that could also be caused by the sudo cache
[22:29] <apachelogger> but caching or not if I click cancel the app should go away
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> maybe latest git will work
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> still buildign
[22:35] <claydoh> http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux
[22:35] <claydoh> :(
[22:36] <apachelogger> claydoh: ?
[22:36] <apachelogger> oh, btw
[22:37] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/chrome-svn.tar.bz2 this should be an usable checkout
[22:38] <claydoh> but does it build/run?
[22:39] <goatsocks> apachelogger: final size?
[22:39] <apachelogger> it's the 2.4 gib checkout without svn
[22:39] <apachelogger> trunk/src
[22:40] <apachelogger> which should include everything for building
[22:40] <apachelogger> and looking at it building will take ages
[22:40] <goatsocks> apachelogger: i mean after bzipping ;)
[22:40] <apachelogger> dunno
[22:41] <apachelogger> 1.1G    .
[22:41] <goatsocks> guess i might grab it later then if i feel like hacking
[22:51] <apachelogger> party in #chromium
[22:54] <goatsocks> nice, 4.1.1 seems to have fixed most of the issues i had with 4.1.0, now i'm just waiting for kdepim to be updated ;)
[22:55] <apachelogger> it still isn't built?
[22:55] <goatsocks> dunno, but it's not on the mirrors
[22:55]  * JontheEchidna has it on i386
[22:55] <goatsocks> well kdepim 4.1.1 proper is there, but its depends aren't
[22:57] <goatsocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/42843/
[22:57] <apachelogger> oh
[22:57] <apachelogger> picasa 3.0
[22:57] <apachelogger> google is certainly in a good mood
[22:59] <blizzz> but there is still no native linux client for picasa, is it?
[22:59] <apachelogger> well
[22:59] <apachelogger> there is a kipi uploader
[22:59] <apachelogger> and that is all what is necessary
[22:59] <apachelogger> IMO they should dump the whole client and make it a full blown web app
[23:00] <goatsocks> chrome should make that easier for them
[23:00] <apachelogger> yups
[23:00] <goatsocks> it's all coming together now, their evil plan
[23:01] <apachelogger> as long as I get enough online storage I don't care about the evil plan
[23:02]  * blizzz hides in his bunker
[23:05] <ScottK-palm> apachelogger: Would you please look into the kde4bindings FTBFS on lpia?  I can't really do it on my phone.
[23:05] <ScottK-palm> I think I got everything requeued for amd64, so it should be good.
[23:06] <apachelogger> ScottK-palm: sure, just need to find it
[23:06]  * apachelogger got 100 package mails or something
[23:07] <ScottK-palm> Yeah, well some I retried too soon.  Sorry about that.
[23:07] <apachelogger> cp obj-*-linux-gnu/lib/qt-dotnet.dll debian/libqyoto4.3-cil/usr/lib/cli/qyoto-4.3/
[23:07] <apachelogger> cp: cannot stat `obj-*-linux-gnu/lib/qt-dotnet.dll': No such file or directory
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> let's blame it on windows
[23:08] <apachelogger> ScottK-palm: I think we need to prevent qyoto stuff from building on lpia
[23:08] <ScottK-palm> AFAICT we are good on i386, amd64, ia64, and sparc.
[23:08] <apachelogger> but since I have no clue about qyoto I'd rather have Riddell do that
[23:09] <ScottK-palm> hppa will need some retries after kdebase-workspace finishes.
[23:11] <ScottK-palm> Maybe someone could make an lpia pbuilder (you can on i386) and try to replicate it. I'm relectant to just randomly retry it.
[23:12]  * ScottK-palm decides to sign off and focus on driving.
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> oO
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> palm piloting while driving?
[23:13] <apachelogger> Oo
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> oO
[23:14] <apachelogger> and I thought I was an ubergeek when I made an audio blog while driving
[23:14]  * JontheEchidna stops
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> I have IRC'd on my DS before
[23:16]  * goatsocks is beginning to realize why so many geeks are involved in auto accidents
[23:18] <apachelogger> well, we at least don't package software while driving .... that would be dangerous because of the focus disorder _and_ the possability of falling asleep
[23:19] <blizzz> you need a driver
[23:21]  * blizzz suggests ScottK
[23:23] <ScottK-palm> The lpia buildds were all idle, so I just hit retry.
[23:30] <apachelogger> blizzz: I could have had a driver @ Linux Tag :P
[23:31] <blizzz> apachelogger: i doubt that'd be faster than public transport.
[23:32] <blizzz> and going by public transport is more fun (for the others, though, but hey...)
[23:34] <apachelogger> blizzz: it's only fun with cool people
[23:36] <blizzz> apachelogger: i remember emonkey... with his very dreadful grimaces
[23:37] <apachelogger> blizzz: cool, not embarrassing :P
[23:39] <blizzz> oftentimes coolness and embarassness is divided by a fine line only
[23:39] <apachelogger> chrome is cool
[23:40] <apachelogger> I think I got a crush on a web browser
[23:40] <apachelogger> that sounds way too sick
[23:40] <blizzz> not embarrassing?
[23:40] <blizzz>  at least, this is embarrassing
[23:44] <apachelogger> blizzz: that depends on the pov
[23:45] <apachelogger> I knew people who are in love with music players
[23:48] <blizzz> still better than marrying a car
[23:49] <blizzz> hey, that's cool... "to be one beer short of a six-pack" again a lot better than the german counterpart