/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/09/02/#launchpad.txt

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persiabeuno: bigjools: There exists today a facility to copy packages from the PPAs to universe.  At issue is more that there doesn't exist a facility to provide review/feedback on the packages, and it is not possible to upload certain classes of revisions.02:29
beunopersia, that's interesting. Is it actually in use?02:30
persiabeuno: In a couple cases, but rarely.  The lack of any means of discussion or review means that something in a PPA is unlikely to meet the requirements for a NEW package.02:31
persiaAnd the way version number blacklisting works means that if someone doesn't get it right the first time, it becomes impossible to get it right later in a PPA.02:32
beunopersia, it would be interesting to pinpoint the exact tools that would help with that02:32
persiaMind you, there are a number of use cases for PPAs that make the current version number blacklisting behaviour correct.02:32
persiaWould it?  There was discussion in Boston about what would be needed for LP to provide something like REVU.02:33
beunoit absolutely would. In what timeframe something like that could be implemented, is a different battle02:33
persiaEssential items were being able to completely revise packaging to cover mistakes (e.g. upload -0ubuntu1 to override -1, or upload 0.2 to override 0.2rc4)02:33
persiaBeaing able to comment on a given release, subscribe to a given package in a given PPA, and indicate advocation.02:34
beunothat doesn't sound too complicated02:34
persiaUnfortunately, implementation of much of that breaks the use case for using PPAs as a means of distributing packages to end-users.02:34
beunoare there bugs open for it?02:34
persiabug #263301 has some related discussion, but nothing explicit.02:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263301 in soyuz "Can't re-upload a package with a different src tarball after deletion in PPA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26330102:34
persiaEssentially, it's a matter of determining whether a PPA is for end-user distribution or for review.  The workflows for these uses, and the constraints that need to be applied are sufficiently different that both doesn't work well for either.02:35
beunopersia, could you file relevant bugs requesting those features?   just having them there will increase the chances of getting it done02:36
persiabeuno: Can you answer the question as to which is the appropriate use for a PPA?  I won't file bugs towards making it a better review system that would break the distribution experience for all end users without some indication that LP doesn't care about end-user distribution in PPAs.  Similarly, I won't file bugs about how PPAs are broken for end-user distribution without some clear indication that LP doesn't care about review use cases.02:37
persiaThe two are fundamentally incompatible, due to expectations on the part of dpkg, existing policies and guidelines, and other issues.02:37
persiaThe last answer I got from cprov was "both", but there was indication that it hadn't received deep thought.02:38
beunoI probably can't answer that with absolute confidence. I still think the bugs are relevant because it makes it easy to follow up on and discuss, but we could as well try this on the mailing list.02:39
persiaI guess.  I think discussion at that level of detail is premature.02:39
persiaIt is likely that a decision in one direction or another will be forced by 263301, and that can the be guidance as to which workflow should be fixed (as the current behaviour is very much not ideal for either model)02:40
beunopersia, fair enough. I won't make you waste more time on it, since it seems you've already tried to get this through without much success.02:42
persiabeuno: I didn't try real hard :)  The discussion in Boston foundered on similar confusions, and there was a *lot* more work that needed to be done on PPAs first.02:43
persiaI think we're reaching the point where we can make progress in one direction or the other soon, but I think it's something that needs to be decided at a policy level, rather than from looking at the problems currently encountered by each use case.02:44
persiaFrom a communications perspective, it's very difficult to have two sorts of PPAs, and having both limited in various ways may be the best way to not have to decide one way or the other.02:45
beunopersia, are you going to be at UDS in December?02:45
persiaYes.02:45
beunocool, that may be a very good place to give it another round of discussion02:46
beunoI think I'll be there too, so I may be able to help as well  :)02:47
persiaIndeed, although I wouldn't be surprised if a decision can be made sooner.02:47
beunosure, would make the discussion more precise02:47
persiaI think that 263301 is a good example bug where a change is requested that would break the distribution model in favour of the review model.02:47
persiaYes, once a decision is made, we can quickly outline the features that are needed to make that model work well, and discuss implementations at UDS.02:48
beunogreat, I'm interested in that discussion  :)02:49
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gouris c. reis the only LP admin creating project-groups?08:37
stubNot sure. Open a ticket at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad and see who takes it.08:57
gouri already did that - https://answers.launchpad.net/~kiko there are open tickets from 23rd...08:58
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gourthe other day i was browsing some LP's help docs with the examples of blueprints, but today i cannot find it :-/09:44
gourthere were scans of paper & pen 'specs'09:45
compengihow could the membership in a team expire?10:16
Hobbseebecause somenoe didn't renew it?10:17
compengiHobbsee, is that someone from user's side or from the administrator's?10:18
Hobbseecompengi: administrators of the team.10:18
Hobbseewait, are you talking about a user expiring from a team?10:18
Hobbseeif so, then the user's side.10:18
compengihmm..10:18
compengiand how to renew it =/10:18
Hobbseeadd the user to the team again10:19
Hobbseeor change their status, i guess10:19
compengioh10:19
compengibut i don't see join the team. i only can see "leave"10:20
gouradd?10:20
Hobbseeare you the administrator of the team?10:20
compenginope10:20
wgrantIf you can only leave, then you have not expired.10:21
compengii'm a user. and today received and email that my membership in ubuntu-lb team would expire after 7 days from now.10:21
wgrantAh.10:21
wgrantClick the link in the email.10:21
wgrantIf it says you can renew it.10:21
wgrantIf it doesn't say that, you must ask an admin.10:21
compengiyeah. it says i must contact admins10:22
wgrantThen contact the admins.10:22
Hobbseethen you have to contact the admins of the team.10:22
compengiis this by default?10:22
Hobbseedon't think so.10:22
wgrantI thought so.10:22
compengiweird10:23
Hobbseehm, it might be.10:23
wgrantWhy is this weird?10:23
wgrantExpiry dates with renewal do not make much sense.10:23
persiaI think the default is an open team.  When one closes a team, one can decide how renewals work.10:23
wgrantpersia: But there is a default for that too.10:23
* ajmitch almost expired from core-dev, but that can be renewed by a user10:23
compengiwhy should the membership in a team renew his membership10:24
* persia looks for an open team to close to discover the default.10:24
compengian *approved* member also10:24
wgrantpersia: Staging works well for that.10:24
wgrantcompengi: That failed to parse - can you please rephrase?10:24
persiacompengi: To show they are still active?10:24
persiawgrant: Aha.  That way I don't break anything.  Good idea!10:24
compengiwgrant, if there are no assigments to that team, in which people can participate in. how could someone know if users are active this way, knowing that some other users already participate and active in other projects10:27
persiacompengi: It really depends on the team.  I'd argue that any well-defined team probably works towards some goal, and that any active member can probably report what they did and what they plan to do as part of the discussion with the team admins about renewal.10:31
persiaIndeed.  I've just checked a team for which I'm an admin, and the default for moderated and restricted teams appears to be to invite members to apply for renewal.10:34
kletteHey, is it possible to set dependencies between bugs?10:48
wgrantNot at this time.10:48
wgrantRegrettably.10:48
klettePlanned feature then I hope ;)10:48
wgrantUnfortunately I don't believe so. Though we (Ubuntu people) have asked for it.10:48
kletteshrug10:50
persiaklette: During the last discussion it ended up being blocked by definition: what does one bug depending on another mean?10:51
persiaIf you can come up with a coherent definition that is unlikely to be misunderstood without documentation, and unlikely to be abused, submitting it to the LP folk may result in implementation.10:51
klettepersia: «that bug needs to be solved before we can solve this one»10:51
klettein my head at least ;)10:52
persiaklette: OK.  What about two bugs that must be solved at the same time?  Is there a dependency?10:52
persiaHow about a bug in one place that is actually just a distant symptom of a bug in another place?10:52
* persia isn't an LP developer, but just someone who remembers the last conversation10:53
klettethe first one is tricky, but the second i would mark as a duplicate and add that info the the first bug, as its a result of one bug, not two10:54
VolansHi all, perhaps there is some PPA admin here?10:58
persiaVolans: What are you trying to accomplish?10:59
Volanspersia:  there is a build in a virtual machine on my PPA that probably is in loop, I have tried to ask the owner (Adam Conrad) both via IRC or mail, but at the moment  no reply11:00
wgrantI'm sure somebody will notice eventually.11:01
persiaVolans: Ah.  A broken buildd.  Yeah, that needs a specific sort of person.11:01
wgrantBut it's not such a problem now that there are 31 buildds.11:01
wgrantinfinity is your man, I believe.11:01
Volansif possible I want to stop the build, is useless and time consuming for the all PPA11:01
wgrantThere are at least 9 other buildds, so it's not much of a problem for others.11:02
Volanswgrant: yeah, I have tried to talk with him, tonight in IRC and I have sent an email to him11:02
Volansafter 1 hour for some reason the build is gone in a loop, only for lpia architecture11:02
HobbseeVolans: normal mortals can't cancel builds11:02
Hobbseelamont / infinity / elmo would be able to fix it.11:03
Hobbseebut infinity for one, isn't good at responding to emails.11:03
Volansso, I think is very useless to leave it11:03
Hobbseeeven buildd admins can't.11:03
Hobbseeit pops up a dialog saying "feature not yet implemented"11:03
VolansHobbsee: thanks, I will try with the other two, I have talked with lamont and elmo in the past for sysadmin stuffs11:04
Hobbseei hope it's fixed relatively soon, but i doubt it will be.11:04
compengii'm trying to set a gpg keyserver by "gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com" but it seems to take too long. no idea if it's stuck11:30
compengii just see "Gpg:  On it goes - message enter...  " and nothing happens. it's been like this over half an hour11:31
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sabdflwould make sense to allow the uploader, or someone with permissions on the destination archive, to kill a build12:52
wgranthttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/builder-job-aborting12:54
wgrantBut I'm not sure if that would cover privileges.12:54
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epsyhi, this is a minor issue, but it's rather confusing..on the commit atom feeds there is always a trailing "..." even if the commit message is complete15:48
intellectronicaepsy: maybe file a bug?15:49
epsyokay15:49
epsyintellectronica, in what project ?15:51
intellectronicaepsy: https://launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+filebug15:53
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persiacprov: bug #252689 and bug #263301 aren't quite duplicates: one is about the orig.tar.gz, and the other about the diff.gz and .dsc.  They are admittedly both about the blacklisting rules, so may be easily solved together.16:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 252689 in soyuz "Permit to upload a new package with the same name-version of another package already uploaded (PPA) (dup-of: 263301)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25268916:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263301 in soyuz "Can't re-upload a package with a different src tarball after deletion in PPA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26330116:15
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persiaal-maisan: Regarding bug #250820 : the example email has both corrupted and uncorrupted non-ASCII text.  Is that intentional?17:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 250820 in soyuz "-changes emails could be easier to read" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25082017:12
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gourLP admin created project-group for me, but it looks i'm not able to add existing project(s) to it, right?20:31
matsubaragour: in change details for your project you should have the option to choose which project group your project is part of20:38
gourmatsubara: thanks a lot. somehow i missed it :-/20:45
matsubaragour: you're welcome20:47
gour:-)20:47
gourenough for today...20:47
* gour ---> sleep20:48
gourgood night20:48
cyberixIs marking bugs invalid until they get forwarded upstream the right thing to do? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/25800320:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 258003 in rhythmbox "no visual clue for successfull import" [Wishlist,Incomplete]20:55
beunocyberix, that doesn't sound right. Does the bug exist in Ubuntu?20:57
cyberixbeuno: yes21:04
beunocyberix, than the bug is valid21:04
cyberixsorry I said wrong21:04
cyberixthe status is incomplete21:04
cyberixbut I think the report is not lacking anything21:05
cyberixexpect for reporting upstream21:05
chadmI am trying to connect to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-4.1/files21:06
chadmbut I am getting the following error21:06
chadmhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-4.1/files21:06
chadmerr21:06
chadmSorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.21:06
chadmanyone able to help?21:08
jpdsbarry: Odd, it appears to be determined on: "Searching for httplib2==0.2.0".21:08
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barryjpds: did you try the -d (develop) switch?  does it do anything different in that case?  note that the target of -d must be on $PYTHONPATH21:10
beunocyberix, than you should note that in a comment21:11
beunoand leave the bug as confirmed/triaged21:11
beunoas the bug itself is not incomplete21:12
cyberixI reported it originally, so I'm not sure, if I'm allowed to change the status into confirmed21:12
jpdsbarry: Running the command you suggested just gives me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/42826/21:12
barryjpds: PYTHONPATH=`pwd`/staging ./setup.py develop -d staging21:13
jpdsbarry: That gives me the same as before.. : http://paste.ubuntu.com/42828/21:14
barryjpds: very odd.  setuptools is being stoopid21:15
barryjpds: try blowing away launchpadlib.egg-info and trying again21:17
jpdsSame.21:18
jpdsI have the intrepid python-setuptools.21:18
barryjpds: note that i'm trying everything with a from-source build of 2.5.221:32
barrythough i don't see why it should matter21:33
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bruce90surely the lp mappy thing could use OSM?22:04
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Odd_BlokeJust realised that I don't want https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/gwibber/debian to be imported by Launchpad, as that'll generate new revisions when it's been pushed there with bzr-svn (right?).22:55
mwhudsonOdd_Bloke: um, possibly not23:01
mwhudsoni can delete the import for you if you want...23:01
Odd_Blokemwhudson: Yeah, please.23:04
mwhudsonOdd_Bloke: done23:07
Odd_Blokemwhudson: Thanks. :)23:07

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