[11:35] <ma10> @now rome
[12:50] <RG3rY> hi
[12:50] <RG3rY> can i ask here a technical question about nvidia install on ubuntu ?
[12:54] <persia> RG3rY: Yes, but nobody will answer you here.  Depending on the nature of your question, you may want one of #ubuntu, #ubuntu+1, or #ubuntu-devel.
[12:55] <RG3rY> thanks
[12:55] <RG3rY> im on it
[12:55] <RG3rY> good day
[16:00] <calc> hi
[16:00] <cjwatson> good afternoon
[16:00] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:00] <liw> greetingses
[16:00] <james_w> hi all
[16:01] <cjwatson> could somebody chair this for me until this call is finished, please?
[16:01] <cjwatson> I sent out the agenda
[16:01] <cjwatson> I haven't yet reviewed the fstab change in ubiquity, so unless evand's done that, that's carried over again :(
[16:02] <evand> negative
[16:02] <bryce> hi
[16:02] <asac> hi
[16:03] <liw> does it matter who chairs?
[16:03] <asac> liw: lets do a shared chair then ;)
[16:03] <cjwatson> not as long as you keep it moving :)
[16:04] <asac> who is supposed to be here?
[16:04] <asac> slangasek: doko: there?
[16:04] <calc> everyone but ogra i think
[16:04] <slangasek> 'morning
[16:04] <cjwatson> TheMuso?
[16:04] <doko> hi
[16:04] <ogra> .oO(that odesnt mean i'm not lurking though :) )
[16:04] <liw> themuso and slangasek missing
[16:05]  * calc points at slangasek saying 'morning
[16:05] <asac> liw: s/slangasek//
[16:05] <cjwatson> oh, TheMuso is on holiday
[16:05] <cjwatson> let's start then
[16:05] <liw> oh yes
[16:05] <liw> #startmeeting
[16:05] <cjwatson> recent experience suggests mootbot is not terribly alive atm
[16:05] <liw> first on the agenda: outstanding actions, carried over from previous meeting
[16:06] <liw> ArneGoetje, "Arne to email ubuntu-devel@ or distro-team@ if still stuck with language-selector PyGTK needs, by end of week."
[16:06] <ArneGoetje> liw: solved already
[16:06] <liw> and Colin and Evan confirmed that the /etc/fstab change (whatever it was...) is not yet done, so carried over
[16:06] <liw> next: "Outstanding feature freeze exceptions from last week"
[16:07] <cjwatson> oh, let me find a list of that
[16:07] <cjwatson> I spewed it into the release team meeting last Friday
[16:08] <cjwatson> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/29/%23ubuntu-meeting.html search for "new pulseaudio" for the start
[16:08] <liw> 17:32	cjwatson	 * new pulseaudio to match new alsa and new kernel
[16:08] <liw> 17:32	cjwatson	* experimental python 3 packages (not by default, maybe not really FFe)
[16:08] <liw> 17:32	cjwatson	* system-cleaner (tonight, I'm told)
[16:08] <liw> 17:32	cjwatson	* usb-installer-images (ditto)
[16:08] <liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* dvd-performance-hacks (ditto)
[16:08] <liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* timezone map changes for ubiquity
[16:08] <liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* openoffice.org 3 (again, not by default, parallel-installable)
[16:08] <liw> 17:33	cjwatson	* xorg-options-editor needs promotion to main I think
[16:08] <liw> just for the record...
[16:09] <liw> pulseaudio would be TheMuso's territory, yes? anyone know that status?
[16:09] <liw> doko, python3?
[16:10] <cjwatson> python 3 has been controversial on distro-team@, though I only just noticed that thread today
[16:10] <liw> system-cleaner is waiting in REVU (I guess I should active find someone to review/sponsor it)
[16:10] <liw> evand, is usb-installer-images you?
[16:10] <evand> liw: ja
[16:10] <evand> it's through NEW, thanks to cjwatson
[16:10] <doko> liw: well, lets address this on the distro list; I personally would like to see this (at least) in universe
[16:11] <cjwatson> system-cleaner> please do, there should be plenty of people who can
[16:11] <cjwatson> I just accepted usb-creator from NEW about ten minutes ago
[16:11] <liw> dvd-performance-hacks and timezone map changes I have no idea about whom to ask
[16:11] <liw> openoffice.or 3 is calc, surely?
[16:11] <liw> xorg-options-editor is bryce?
[16:11] <calc> yes
[16:12] <liw> (am I going too fast?)
[16:12] <bryce> done
[16:12] <calc> openoffice.org is still waiting to release rc1, hopefully this week finally, then i will get the parallel installable debs into intrepid
[16:12] <bryce> I filed both MIR's last week (thanks for the reminder colin)
[16:13] <cjwatson> dvd-performance-hacks/timezone> evand
[16:13] <cjwatson> calc: I asked for this to go ahead with the beta; assuming that the rc1 is delayed semi-indefinitely, do we need to wait for it?
[16:14] <calc> cjwatson: for the languages it would be useful, yes
[16:14] <cjwatson> usb-creator will still need MIR review and such
[16:14] <evand> dvd-performance-hacks is in ubiquity (though w/o triggers), the timezone stuff I'm going to have to defer as the weekend was spent entirely on the usb installer.
[16:14] <calc> cjwatson: beta2 just ships en-us
[16:14] <cjwatson> calc: ack, though we could get some initial testing
[16:14] <evand> cjwatson: noted
[16:15] <calc> cjwatson: they seem fairly confident about releasing rc1 (whether or not its ready i think) this week so it shouldn't be much of an issue
[16:15] <cjwatson> s/confident/determined/ ? :-)
[16:15] <calc> yea perhaps determined is a better word ;-)
[16:15] <cjwatson> "it doesn't build, ship it"
[16:15] <calc> yep :)
[16:16] <cjwatson> ok, so the FFe focus for this week seems to be: system-cleaner, usb-creator, dvd-performance-hacks triggers, xorg-options-editor
[16:17] <liw> anyone know about pulseaudio?
[16:17] <cjwatson> we'll have to check that with Luke when he gets back, I think; it sounds as if nobody here does. I believe it's essentially an upstream update that's been needed for quite a few reasons but was blocked on new alsa
[16:17] <asac> cjwatson: the mobile broadband wizard and DB needs a FFe ack i think... its sitting in NEW as well
[16:17] <asac> its #263668
[16:18] <cjwatson> mobile-broadband-provider-info?
[16:18] <asac> yes + libmbca
[16:18] <asac> cjwatson: like in the bug
[16:18] <asac> once its in I'll draft the MIR so we can build against that.
[16:19] <cjwatson> I think it can go into universe safely, so I'll process it after this meeting and we can look at it from there
[16:19] <cjwatson> (this call seems not to be happening, hence attention ...)
[16:19] <liw> anything else about FFes?
[16:20] <evand> I believe Agostino Russo is going to apply for one for Wubi
[16:21] <evand> But he wanted some time to further develop before he makes a decision on whether or not to approach the release team with it.
[16:21] <cjwatson> do you know what the planned changes there are?
[16:22] <evand> a complete redesign :/.  It's taking the current code and rewriting it in something not-NSIS.
[16:22] <evand> In this case, python and bindings to MFC, if I recall correctly.
[16:24] <liw> anything else about FFes or shall we continue to the next topic?
[16:24] <cjwatson> which is a good idea in general, but perhaps we should arrange for custom CD images with a wubi branch on them so that we can test that before merging
[16:25] <cjwatson> (NSIS has been a pain in the neck)
[16:25] <cjwatson> let's continue
[16:25] <liw> next topic: Milestoned/targeted bugs
[16:25] <evand> indeed, noted
[16:26]  * calc pushing his milestoned bugs back to the next release
[16:26] <cjwatson> links to milestoned/targeted bugs?
[16:27] <slangasek> milestoned for alpha-5: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1323
[16:27] <cjwatson> thanks
[16:27] <slangasek> none of which belong to anyone here, unless someone wants to try tackling #252174
[16:27] <slangasek> (262539 is specifically going to be deferred, as soon as I errata it)
[16:27] <cjwatson> nothing for us there, though I think we should ask for 262539 to be in place by alpha-5
[16:27] <cjwatson> hm, really?
[16:27] <cjwatson> it seemed like a simple userspace fix
[16:28] <bryce> wow, amazingly few milestone bugs
[16:28] <slangasek> oh, is it?
[16:28] <slangasek> sorry, I assumed it was bound up to the kernel ABI changes and that it wasn't an issue for pristine installs with alpha-5
[16:28] <cjwatson> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid-lrm.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a1611ef0f30469da0353d438d1a71a326eb3ca9
[16:28] <slangasek> ok, will ping the kernel team after the meeting
[16:29] <cjwatson> though I think you're right that it isn't an issue for pristine installs
[16:29] <cjwatson> how about targeted bugs? we're getting to the point where we should be aggressively getting those out of the way
[16:29] <slangasek> anyway, there are other bugs besides the milestoned ones that we should be looking at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
[16:30] <cjwatson> critical for us are 247376 fglrx (blocked on upstream), and 261847 openjdk (which I believe doko's looking at)
[16:31] <cjwatson> several firefox/xulrunner high
[16:31] <pitti> milestone bugs> that URL above is weird, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-alpha-5 has a lot more bugs
[16:31] <doko> yes, had given the gcc update priority. will be fixed before the alpha. local builds are running
[16:31] <asac> well ... the IO thing is something not trivial to fix
[16:31] <slangasek> 185311, still some xcb locking concerns?
[16:31] <asac> the background image thing should work though
[16:32] <slangasek> pitti: anyone can set a milestone for a bug, the URL above are the milestone-critical ones
[16:32] <pitti> slangasek: ah, thanks
[16:32] <cjwatson> and OOo, libxcb (that assertion failure again?), an LVM failure I still need to track down, some X driver issues, an n-m crash, oem-config/Kubuntu
[16:32] <asac> actually i thought the background image thing was fix committed
[16:32] <slangasek> asac: an easy bug report to resolve, then ;)
[16:33] <asac> slangasek: yeah ;)
[16:34] <asac> ah. i think the idea was to get that committed upstream and let that sink down to us.
[16:34] <bryce> slangasek: I'll take a look.  Last I heard, the java changes pretty much took care of the remaining known xcb issues
[16:36] <liw> anything else about bugs?
[16:36] <bryce> slangasek: also I talked with Bart about the status of the rearchitecting work monday, and he said it's not looking like it will hit in the near term
[16:36] <cjwatson> calc: bug 224469 seems to be in a slightly indeterminate state; is it fixed in intrepid or not?
[16:37] <calc> cjwatson: i can't reproduce it any longer after some fixes went in but apparently some users can still
[16:38] <cjwatson> ok, please update the bug to say that
[16:38] <calc> hmm actually i must be thinking of another bug, just reread the description
[16:38] <calc> yes this one should be fixed afaict
[16:39] <calc> i just forgot to mark it as fix released for intrepid yet
[16:39] <calc> it was uploaded to hardy then copied over to intrepid
[16:40] <cjwatson> ok, please sync it up, then
[16:41] <cjwatson> right, we should move on from bugs
[16:41] <liw> next topic: Sponsorship queue
[16:41] <cjwatson> I've done my hour this week ;-)
[16:41] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[16:41] <liw> I can't sponsor...
[16:41] <cjwatson> people without upload privileges are excused
[16:42] <slangasek> heh :-)
[16:43] <asac> my list should be zero (well except swfdec that needs FFe)
[16:43] <cjwatson> so, of the uploaders, who has done sponsoring this week?
[16:43] <calc> i have one that was assigned yesterday apparently will get to it this week
[16:43] <slangasek> not me, this is day one of my week ;)
[16:43] <asac> i even sponsored two that werent on my list ;)
[16:43] <cjwatson> I've done usbutils, ichthux-default-settings, cobex, showfsck, anacron, mplayer
[16:43] <evand> I unfortunately have not found time for it with the FF, but will endeavor to today.
[16:44] <slangasek> linux-wlan-ng is mine to resolve, though unfortunately it's an upstream merge from the beginning of the cycle that never got done, so the resolution may well be "postponed" once I've looked at it
[16:47] <ogra> slangasek, i might pester you about a moodle FFe ...
[16:47] <ogra> but not right now/yet
[16:48] <liw> any other people doing/not doing sponsoring?
[16:50] <liw> if not... the next topic would be "Any business from activity reports"
[16:51] <cjwatson> ok, well consider this a reminder to help clear out the sponsorship queue for next week; I'll be going around and asking people :)
[16:52] <cjwatson> call done, I have the activity reports, one moment while I scan
[16:52] <cjwatson> missing reports from bryce, doko
[16:53] <asac> on this front: personallly, i dont think that the new way of doing activity reports is an improvement. i would really like to read what people did last week _before_ the meeting.
[16:53] <asac> what do others think?
[16:53] <bryce> oh shoot, forgot to send.  cjwatson I'll get that to you shortly
[16:53] <cjwatson> maybe we should ask for distro-activity
[16:53] <cjwatson> I really appreciate the new readable distro-team
[16:53] <doko> cjwatson: hmm, ok. this is a one day report: email catchup, gcc fix
[16:53] <liw> an opt-in distro-activity would be fine, I think
[16:54] <bryce> (was off yesterday and just plumb forgot)
[16:54] <cjwatson> doko: oh, of course you were off. never mind then
[16:54] <asac> cjwatson: i appreciate the new summaries too. but i think that getting the team-colleagues reports _before_ the meeting allows us to discuss things/news while they are still new
[16:55] <cjwatson> ok, I'll pass that idea around then
[16:55] <asac> but maybe thats not a practical issue. if noone else feels the same, then i can certainly step back on this point :)
[16:55] <pitti> why can't we still use distro-team@ to discuss stuff before the meeting? these could become separate mails, instead of being buried in reports
[16:56] <cjwatson> I suggest distro-activity with enforced reply-to: distro-team
[16:56] <cjwatson> distro-team was really, really noisy. I just didn't read it
[16:57] <cjwatson> which I think is bad
[16:57] <asac> cjwatson: ack from me. reply-to @distro-team
[16:57] <asac> with an opt-in distro-activity list
[16:57] <cjwatson> (no business from activity reports that I can see, btw)
[16:57] <asac> (or maybe even foundations-activity ... which is at least mandatory to read for foundations team members?)
[16:58] <liw> next topic would be "Any other business"
[16:58] <calc> 2m left :)
[16:58] <cjwatson> asac: list explosion :)
[16:59] <liw> more mandatory mail to be read is unlikely to be successful in communicating things
[17:00] <liw> no other business? can we end the meeting on time? :)
[17:00] <cjwatson> sounds like it
[17:00] <liw> #endmeeting
[17:01] <asac> liw: true. thats why i said: if there is noone actually feeling the same way then we dont even need distro-activity
[17:01] <liw> (that doesn't have anywhere near the satisfaction you get from a fifteen pound gavel)
[17:01] <james_w> thanks all
[17:01] <asac> thanks
[17:01] <evand> thanks
[17:01] <slangasek> cheers
[17:01] <liw> gracias
[17:01] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:01] <cjwatson> asac: I definitely see the usefulness of having an opportunity for discussion
[17:02] <liw> what are we doing for minutes this time? (this quarter?) I forgot
[17:02] <calc> thanks
[17:05] <liw> cjwatson, will you do the minutes?
[17:06] <bryce> thanks
[17:06] <cjwatson> liw: yes
[17:58]  * stgraber waves
[18:00] <LaserJock> hi stgraber
[18:00] <heno_> Hello everyone!
[18:00] <bdmurray> howdy
[18:00] <pedro_> hey hey
[18:00] <persia> \o
[18:01] <heno_> got bot? I wonder
[18:01] <heno_> #startmeeting
[18:01] <heno_> nope :(
[18:02] <heno_> the agenda is here as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[18:02] <ara> hello everyone
[18:03] <sbeattie> hey
[18:03] <heno_> [TOPIC] Regression tracking guidelines and web page prototype.
[18:03] <heno_> sbeattie: can you give a summary/update?
[18:03] <sbeattie> Um, sure.
[18:04] <sbeattie> This is an overview https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking
[18:05] <LaserJock> so is there any plan on how we're going to deal with and/or triage regression bugs?
[18:05] <sbeattie> We'd like to track 3 things, potential regressions in the devel version (e.g. intrepid), regressions between released versions (e.g. gutsy -> hardy), and regressions in updated versions (e.g. hardy -> hardy-updates)
[18:05] <LaserJock> I can just imagine a flood of bugs
[18:07] <sbeattie> Sort of, I was envisioning web pages to track all of the different tags
[18:07] <heno_> The plan is to first get a better overview of where we are regressing so we can a) minimise that and b) release note better where we cannot fix
[18:07] <heno_> It's not a campaign to collect more bugs as such :)
[18:07] <LaserJock> heno_: so, sorry to be predictable, what about Universe in this?
[18:08] <sbeattie> Plus perhaps another script that looks for untagged bugs that mention regression.
[18:08] <LaserJock> heno_: no, but once you say "we're trying to find out about regressions" you're going to get a lot of people filing regression bugs for every feature that changes
[18:08] <sbeattie> Universe included, I don't see why it would be different
[18:08]  * persia likes the idea of a campaign to collect more bugs: more feedback means better understanding of how to improve
[18:08] <ara> sbeattie: adding a task in the release notes project, as soon as we discover a potential regression... could it be possible that we add a release note of a regression not happening
[18:08] <heno_> LaserJock: does that need a different process? I would think a regression between releases would be the same in main and universe
[18:09] <LaserJock> sbeattie: because it'd perhaps be hard to write release notes if Universe bugs outnumber Main by a lot
[18:09] <ScottK> persia: I think there would be more incentive if there was less closing of bugs not yet fixed.
[18:09] <persia> LaserJock: We might have a lot of wontfix bugs, but that's still useful for later bug filers.
[18:09] <persia> ScottK: That too.
[18:09] <persia> (but unrelated)
[18:09] <ScottK> persia: I think it's related to the odds of success of such a campaign.
[18:10] <LaserJock> heno_: no, not different processes.
[18:10] <heno_> LaserJock: good point - have universe issues been release noted in any way in the past?
[18:10] <LaserJock> heno_: not that I know of
[18:11] <persia> There've been a few cases where release notes mentioned something of especial interest in universe, but it's not common, except for parts of universe that constitute the universe flavours.
[18:11] <LaserJock> I'm also slightly concerned about lots of stats without any developer effort to back them up, if that makes sense
[18:11] <heno_> LaserJock: hm, ok. should we encourage that to be started?
[18:11] <LaserJock> heno_: I'm not exactly sure. I have no idea how it'd be even written
[18:12] <sbeattie> ara: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I could see release notes worthy stuff that aren't regressions being added to the release-notes project; that's more a question for slangasek
[18:12] <heno_> LaserJock: the idea is to use the metrics to inform and focus devel effort
[18:12] <LaserJock> heno_: right, but I think it's important to make sure that actually happens
[18:12] <heno_> does anyone have ideas for other fields in the regression data template?
[18:13] <LaserJock> I love stats, don't get me wrong. I'm a scientist and I live on data
[18:13] <LaserJock> :-)
[18:13] <heno_> I'm a theoretical scientist so I'm not as worried about data ;)
[18:13] <sbeattie> LaserJock: Heh. With actual evidence rather than hand-waving it can become easier to convince people of the need to take action.
[18:13] <LaserJock> but I think the QA team can get a bunch of stats without any connection to actual development efforts
[18:14] <LaserJock> so then users see all these stats and developers not working on them and get upset
[18:14] <LaserJock> i.e. OMG, look at all those regression bugs!!!!
[18:14] <heno_> status.qa.ubuntu.com is an example of how we can use bug data to target the fixing work
[18:14] <LaserJock> so while I think it's a great thing to have, we might want to think about recommendations for ubuntu-devel
[18:15] <heno_> in what sense?
[18:15] <heno_> do you envision objections to using these tags?
[18:16] <LaserJock> things like "heah, we've noticed X number of regression bugs in package Y, you guys might want to get on that" :-)
[18:16] <LaserJock> no, I doubt there will be objections
[18:16] <heno_> and they would be right
[18:17] <sbeattie> LaserJock: I think you're correct to point out that we, as the QA team, need to be advocates for our users to the developers based on the stats we collect.
[18:17] <heno_> ok, please add further comments and ideas to the wiki page
[18:17] <heno_> moving on
[18:17] <LaserJock> sbeattie: I'd go further and say that we are a *part* of the development team and should drive QA within Ubuntu development
[18:18] <heno_> [TOPIC]: QA server setup - who is setting up what services
[18:18] <heno_> Brian has agreed to coordinate placement of services on the server, URLS, etc
[18:18] <heno_> several people here are already moving stuff there
[18:19] <heno_> can we get a brief overview from each?
[18:19] <heno_> ara, bdmurray, sbeattie, ogasawara? others?
[18:19] <bdmurray> I've setup a new bug stats database using postgres and storm on the server
[18:19] <LaserJock> heno_: this is on the new server in the DC?
[18:19] <ara> I just got instructions from bdmurray on the access permissions. I will be adding the automated tests starts there
[18:20] <heno_> LaserJock: yes
[18:20] <bdmurray> I need to import data from p.u.c and then move graph generation to the new server
[18:20] <ogasawara> I haven't officially moved anything over - but could migrate all the pkg-stat, weather report, kernel bug lists, etc over
[18:20] <heno_> dhobach plans to move harvest there as well
[18:21] <heno_> so anyone wishing to migrate stuff there, please coordinate with bdmurray
[18:22] <LaserJock> does that server use the *.qa.ubuntu.com ?
[18:22] <LaserJock> s/the//
[18:22] <heno_> yes, except some drupal things will stay on the old server for some time
[18:23] <bdmurray> like brainstorm and the isotracker right?
[18:23] <heno_> this one is PHP-free
[18:23] <heno_> bdmurray: right
[18:23] <LaserJock> right, but in terms of URL they're all going to use qa.ubuntu.com
[18:23] <heno_> brainstorm will always remain PHP afaik, and is really not related to QA much anymore
[18:24] <bdmurray> LaserJock: Correct, just not *
[18:24] <heno_> LaserJock: right
[18:24] <LaserJock> k
[18:24] <heno_> next
[18:24] <heno_> [TOPIC]: Alpha 5 ISO testing
[18:25] <heno_> images are appearing now and we need testing help!
[18:26] <heno_> Who has working spare HW or VMs ATM?
[18:26] <heno_> I have troble with vbox here ATM
[18:27] <ara> I am downloading now alternate i386 and will give it a try tomorrow. I will run also the automated tests
[18:27] <ogasawara> heno_:  I've got a spare system I can run some tests on
[18:27] <heno_> unfortunately davmor2 who normally does a lot of testing is away this weel
[18:27] <sbeattie> vbox hosted on hardy?
[18:28] <heno_> sbeattie: right, and intrepid as well
[18:28] <heno_> I'll try kvm later though
[18:28] <schwuk> heno_: I've been playing with mvo's sandbox kvm scripts, so my vm's are working
[18:29] <LaserJock>  * I just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Services to list our hosts/services. Please fill in when you get a chance
[18:29] <heno_> schwuk: excellent. do you have admin access to the iso tracker btw? to help coordinate
[18:29] <schwuk> heno_: let me check
[18:29] <persia> LaserJock: On that page: what about services hosted by Canonical but not on qa.ubuntu.com?
[18:29] <heno_> if not I or stgraber can help set that up
[18:30]  * persia is thinking of things like the conflictschecker
[18:30] <LaserJock> persia: I was gonna put that under "hosted elsewhere"
[18:30] <LaserJock> but I guess that's a good point
[18:30] <heno_> Ideally we should move those over
[18:30] <LaserJock> heno_: that's what I was thinking
[18:31] <heno_> persia: are you interested in running the conflict checker?
[18:31] <heno_> now being open sourced btw
[18:31] <persia> heno_: All of them?  There's quite a few, and for some things (like most of the contents of p.u.c/~ubuntu-archive), there are lots of external scripts depending on the location.
[18:31] <schwuk> heno_: How can I tell if I have admin access?
[18:31] <persia> heno_: Yes, but my plate is far to full to accept anything new right now.
[18:32] <heno_> ok
[18:32] <ara> what is conflict checker used for?
[18:32] <heno_> schwuk: you should be able to add builds
[18:32] <heno_> ara: check for file conflicts in packages
[18:33] <persia> ara: It checks for files that conflict between packages that don't declare the conflict properly, for all possible upgrade paths.  That way, it identifies issues users will encounter before the users encounter them.
[18:33] <schwuk> heno_: In that case I suspect not - nothing like that is jumping out.
[18:33] <sbeattie> schwuk: there should be an Adminstration box in the left column.
[18:33] <ara> heno_, persia: thanks
[18:33] <heno_> bdmurray, pedro_, sbeattie do you have hw/VMs and time to test a bit?
[18:33] <sbeattie> heno_: yes, I can help out.
[18:34] <heno_> we won't aim for full coverage for the alpha but absolutely need that for Beta
[18:34] <bdmurray> I've no vm's but could test with my laptop I believe
[18:34] <pedro_> heno_: yep I'll do some, it will be slow since I'm using an old laptop atm but i can help anyways ;-)
[18:34] <heno_> ok, cool we should have decent coverage then
[18:34] <heno_> thanks folks!
[18:35] <heno_> [TOPIC]: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com - just an fyi
[18:35]  * heno_ cheers ogasawara, stgraber and bdmurray for this work!
[18:35] <ogasawara> yup, just wanted to make an announcement here that the pkg stat pages have been pushed to production
[18:35] <heno_> new we just need to start pimping it :)
[18:35] <ogasawara> I can make a more formal announcement to the ml
[18:36] <schwuk> sbeattie: there isn't. heno_ could you fix my permissions please?
[18:36] <heno_> ogasawara: excellent, please do. -devel and -qa
[18:36]  * ara hugs ogasawara, stgraber, bdmurray
[18:36] <heno_> schwuk: sure, after the meeting
[18:37] <schwuk> well done ogasawara, stgraber and bdmurray. They look good.
[18:37] <heno_> I'm sure we'll tweak the look and content as we go
[18:38] <heno_> the LP pages may also adopt some of this info with time
[18:38] <heno_> in which case we may need to revisit our offering
[18:38] <heno_> [TOPIC]: Posting meeting summaries on the QA blog (as the server team does).
[18:39] <heno_> Someone mentioned this would be a good idea
[18:39] <heno_> other teams may adopt this as well
[18:39] <LaserJock> I would personally rather have individuals blog about things
[18:40] <LaserJock> but meeting summaries should be going to mailing lists for sure
[18:40] <heno_> mailings lists> agree
[18:40] <persia> Actually, I'd like to argue against such double posting.
[18:41] <LaserJock> persia: in what way?
[18:41] <persia> I personally find it annoying to have to skip the server team minutes in one forum or another depending on which I encountered first.
[18:41] <heno_> I think meeting summaries and announcements are appropriate for a team blog though
[18:41] <persia> Then they oughtn't be on the mailing list.  I just object to the duplication.
[18:41] <schwuk> heno_: +1
[18:41] <schwuk> persia: people read in different places - just because you monitor both doesn't mean everyone will.
[18:41] <heno_> persia: but may people don't read both
[18:42] <persia> OK.  Let me put this differently then.
[18:42] <persia> If we want to have an effective means of communication with people, we should direct them to some resource from which they can expect to get e.g. meeting summaries and announcements.
[18:42] <persia> Having multiple places where this information is presented is inherently confusing.
[18:43] <LaserJock> persia: agreed
[18:43] <persia> Some people may prefer one or the other, but there's no reason one can't provide RSS of a mailing list, or receive a blog in one's inbox.
[18:43] <LaserJock> I personally dislike that the Server Team puts the log on Planet, it just seems inappropriate
[18:44] <schwuk> LaserJock: Why? It's Ubuntu related.
[18:44] <LaserJock> schwuk: because it's against Planet Ubuntu's stated purpose
[18:44] <LaserJock> and makes it hard to find the stuff that it *is* supposed to have
[18:44] <heno_> perhaps we should have a team planet where such things go
[18:45] <bdmurray> LaserJock: where is this stated purpose?
[18:45] <LaserJock> bdmurray: on http://planet.ubuntu.com
[18:45] <heno_> then you could get all announcements and summaries there
[18:45] <bdmurray> Is the QA Team not a contributor?
[18:45] <schwuk> "Planet Ubuntu is a window into the world, work and lives of Ubuntu developers and contributors."
[18:45] <persia> heno_: Do you mean like the stated purpose of the fridge?
[18:45] <LaserJock> why not put announcements and summaries where they go?
[18:46] <persia> bdmurray: No, the QA Team is a Team.
[18:46] <schwuk> Meeting minutes seem to fit the bill there LaserJock.
[18:46] <pedro_> do you mean persons and not projects ?
[18:46] <LaserJock> and let Planet Ubuntu do what it's supposed to, aggregate individual blogs
[18:46] <pedro_> so you should move all the projects blogs to somewhere else then
[18:46] <bdmurray> So if were to blog about the pkg landing page who should do it? me? ogasawara? stgraber?
[18:46] <heno_> it provides an insight into our work
[18:46] <LaserJock> pedro_: +1 to that
[18:46] <bdmurray> It was a team effort
[18:46] <pedro_> well the GNOME project does that planet.gnome.org/news <-
[18:46] <heno_> persia: I agree that would be more appropriate actually
[18:46] <pedro_> and i think nobody visit that page
[18:47] <heno_> can we teach the fridge to aggregate team blogs as well as atricles?
[18:47] <LaserJock> bdmurray: anybody/everybody
[18:47] <heno_> *articles
[18:47] <LaserJock> bdmurray: you can individually talk about the stuff you want even
[18:47] <persia> heno_: I'll admit that much of the info on the fridge is duplicate to info in my mailing lists, but I'm less bothered by that, if only because I expect the fridge to have such summaries.
[18:48] <LaserJock> heno_: teams can just submit a story for inclusion in Planet
[18:48] <persia> heno_: Very likely.  Contact ubuntu-news-team@ I've yet to have a request not posted relatively quickly.
[18:48] <heno_> ok, I'll check in with other team leads and fridge editors
[18:49] <LaserJock> Fridge editors want more stuff to put up
[18:49] <heno_> it would be easier if we had a simple technical gateway so we could post post directly
[18:49] <heno_> but I dream :)
[18:49] <LaserJock> heno_: agreed
[18:49] <heno_> any other business?
[18:49] <stgraber> sorry, I wasn't around for the last few minutes :(
[18:49] <stgraber> bdmurray: having something on the fridge seems to be a good idea, we can still individually blog about it
[18:50] <heno_> (so we'll not blog meeting summaries for now)
[18:50] <LaserJock> what about a Testing Day?
[18:50] <LaserJock> I totally dropped the ball on sending an email to ubuntu-qa last week, sorry :(
[18:50] <persia> Thanks.  Apologies for the noise about it, it's just one of my pet peeves with the server team, and I actually care more about reading the QA summaries as I'm often not awake for the meeting.
[18:50] <heno_> today would be a great testing day! :)
[18:51] <LaserJock> heno_: are available to support a testing day?
[18:51] <heno_> LaserJock: do you want to try to organise something for next week?
[18:51] <LaserJock> bah, *are people available
[18:52] <ara> I think that someone should be the person in charge of this and try to coordinate efforts
[18:52] <ara> ping people to add the information to their blogs, create wiki pages, etc.
[18:52] <LaserJock> heno_: I'd personally rather somebody closer to ISO testing were organizing it
[18:52] <heno_> agreed - I have limited bandwidth atm though
[18:53] <heno_> stgraber, sbeattie, schwuk, ara: ^ volunteers?
[18:53] <LaserJock> the thing I'm kind of most concerned about is making sure that the release team is coordinated with
[18:54] <ara> I could do it, maybe for the beta?
[18:54] <LaserJock> when I've done ISO testing before a lot of the time the candidates were invalidated before I even got them downloaded
[18:54] <schwuk> LaserJock: when were you thinking for?
[18:54] <ara> or is it too late? alpha 6 maybe?
[18:55] <LaserJock> it's critical for gaining testing contributors that we don't waste their time
[18:55] <heno_> LaserJock: that's an inherent problem with the process unfortunately
[18:55] <LaserJock> heno_: perhaps, but maybe we can do some stuff about that
[18:55] <heno_> ara: I think we should start with alpha 6
[18:55] <heno_> so we can work out the kinks for beta
[18:55] <heno_> ara: thanks for stepping up!
[18:55] <LaserJock> I think we should plan a Testing Day for *every* alpha, Beta, RC until Intrepid is released
[18:56] <heno_> LaserJock: agreed
[18:56] <LaserJock> we don't have to make a huge deal over it, just blog it, announce it to ubuntu-devel-announce perhaps, and make sure people are around to help
[18:56] <LaserJock> it sets us up well for Intrepid+1
[18:56] <heno_> ara: you may want to take advice from dholbach who coordinated the bug jam
[18:57] <ara> heno_: ok, i will
[18:57] <LaserJock> one thing I've been thinking about is not throwing away results when an ISO is invalidated
[18:57] <ara> monday sep 22nd? it is a couple of days after the alpha, so at least we should know that the minimum test passes
[18:57] <schwuk> ara: let me know if you need any help with organising it
[18:58] <LaserJock> can we let people continue testing whatever .iso they manage to get and add that information somehow to the total testing?
[18:58] <heno_> LaserJock: we had that feature on the tracker before but it's gone missing :(
[18:58] <heno_> 22nd sounds good
[18:59] <LaserJock> so we'd have like the last few .isos on the tracker, but somehow distinguishing from the current candidate
[18:59] <LaserJock> and then people can just not file bugs on known .iso issues
[19:00] <persia> Or can be referred to existing bugs if there is good guidance on how to title the bugs.
[19:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:00] <heno_> I don't think we should collect results from obsolete ISOs but we should keep historic data in view when considering release-readiness
[19:01] <LaserJock> I just think it's awful disheartening to download the thing, burn it, and do a test, only to have your results tossed out a minute later, if not earlier
[19:01] <heno_> rsync is pretty quick though if the changes are minimal
[19:02] <heno_> ok, we are out of time
[19:02] <LaserJock> I've got several hours before without getting a single valid candidate tested
[19:02] <LaserJock> *gone
[19:02] <sbeattie> LaserJock: note that for the testing day, we're talking about testing alpha 6 as is, not candidates for alpha 6.
[19:02] <heno_> let's continue in #u-q
[19:02] <LaserJock> it's not just download
[19:02] <heno_> #endmeeting
[19:02] <LaserJock> sbeattie: I think we should do both
[20:24] <Seeker`> #startmeeting
[20:39] <persia> Seeker`: The Bot is hibernating.
[20:39] <Seeker`> persia: We are currently trying to fix it
[20:40] <persia> Cool!
[20:40] <Seeker`> people should prod me harder if it stops working
[20:43] <persia> Seeker`: Sorry.  I didn't know who to prod.  I'll hunt you agressively next time it doesn't work.
[20:43] <Seeker`> :D
[20:45] <Seeker`> #startmeeting
[20:45] <MootBot> Meeting started at 14:45. The chair is Seeker`.
[20:45] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:45] <Seeker`> #endmeeting
[20:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:45.
[21:09] <jpds> Seeker`: Yay.